Re: How Fast Can You Create CAM Progams If...
Joe788
(Gibbscam)
If the best you can do is store CADCAM files as "templates" because
you have no tool library and then bring your current part into the
right "template". (Gibbscam)
If you try and reuse saved operations from operations libraries and
apply them to new geometry. (Mastercam)
Shouldn't a CADCAM system automate much of the manual tediousness of
CADCAM?
Instead of the low level and often impractical automation I listed
above that's offered in very dated stand-alone CADCAM systems, how
about defining and storing global type process such as a machining
configurations, tool mappings, etc. and let the CADCAM system apply
your defined process to the machining *features* you tell it to. Isn't
this a lot smarter than any of the above choices especially when you
still have quick, easy and full control and can manually edit what you
don't like to fit your current situation?
If your stand-alone CADCAM system has no clue what a feature is then
doing what I suggest is the way to go isn't possible. BTW, non-history
based modelers can have features and patterns.
http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/new-delcam-for-solidworks-video/
Joe788
Bottom Line:
Results so bad they announced them after the market closed today:
Cimatron Reports Financial Results for the Third Quarter and First
Nine Months of 2009
"Operating loss in the third quarter of 2009 was $(901) thousand,
compared to an operating profit of $19 thousand in the third quarter
of 2008. In the first nine months of 2009, Cimatron recorded an
operating loss of $(1.7) million, compared to an operating loss of
$(126) thousand in the first nine months of 2008."
"Net Loss for the third quarter of 2009 was $(731) thousand, or
$(0.08) per diluted share, compared to a net profit of $111 thousand,
or $0.01 per diluted share recorded in the same quarter of 2008. In
the first nine months of 2009 net loss was $(1.4) million, or $(0.15)
per diluted share, compared to a net profit of $18 thousand, or
$(0.00) per diluted share, in the first nine months of 2008."
Haywood JaBlowme
The Following Comments Are Taken From The Highly Censored And
Moderated Gibbscam Message Board Where Many Posters Have Been Banned:
“I would like to know why as many times as I've heard people ask for a
tool library that Gibbs has not done something. I've listened to Bill
try and explain his reasons, but they just don't work for alot of us.
It's time to address this issue would you not agree.”
“Time to get with the program.
We run a prototype machine shop, stock 1000's of tools and only on
very rare occasion run the same program twice.
Saving templates gets unwieldy and complicated.
Saving processes just to import tools works for limited numbers of
tools.
A tool library with integrated cut data would save us a tremendous
amount of time and tedium. I know I've used competing software.
Has Anybody had any success with the tool import macro on V9?”
“is there any chance of getting this for a lathe soon?”
“I know this is an unsupported plug-in, but any info on this, Gibbs?”
“Absolutely. I think it's totally insane to NOT have one. Isn't the
whole idea of PCs in general, and PC-run machining, to take the
drudgery of repetition out -- as in manually entering the same data
over and over?
"There are various scabbed-on ways around it, but a tool library seems
SO fundamental, kinda like having electricity to run a shop. Pretty
inconvenient without it.
My suggestion has been, right-click on a tool tile and a drop-down
list pops up where you can select from your personal library that you
created.”
“Hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm in the process of entering data
for our 500 tool magazine. What a drag. Please Gibbs, give us users
what we need and repeatedly ask for!”
“Wow, a lot of good points from everybody. Personally, I would just
like to see a tool library.
While we're at it, let's throw in a user defined tool holder library.”
“With something so common-sense, widely needed and requested, and
available on other CAM programs, NOT going anywhere here . . . what
are our chances of getting OTHER, maybe lesser things in the works?
Zero to none?”
“I don't understand why, if your customers want a tool library, you
don't give them a tool library. I don't think they(we) want "work
arounds". They(we) want a tool library. I guess I just don't
understand why you wouldn't want to give the customers what they are
asking for.”
“Every time I see the words "Tool Library" in the post titles, I can
hear the pulleys of the Gibbs drawbridge creaking frantically as they
seek to sever their link to the invading marauders.”
To this day Gibbscam still has no Tool Library and the automation of
repetitive time consuming tasks in Gibbscam resides at the bottom of
the barrel. Gibbscam has no answer for this type of program that blows
the doors off Gibbscam:
http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/new-delcam-for-solidworks-video/
Delcam For SolidWorks is the fastest way to create a part program from
a native SolidWorks file. Gibbscam, Mastercam, Surfcam can't even come
close to the part creation speed that Delcam For SolidWorks will
have.
larryrozer
wrote:
> Delcam For SolidWorks is the fastest way to create a part program from
> a native SolidWorks file.
So it's limited to "Native Files"?
In your world job shops would be expected to own and maintain how many
CAD, CAM and CAD/CAM programs in order to work with native files?
Cliff
<haywoodj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The Following Comments Are Taken From The Highly Censored And
>Moderated Gibbscam Message Board Where Many Posters Have Been Banned:
How many fake names did they catch you with yonnie?
We know they never caught you with a legal seat,
much less any cues.
--
Cliff
Jerry
question or have a concern means nothing. Along with your quotes you should
have posted some of the replays but I guess that would not be supporting
your theory.
Jerry
"Haywood JaBlowme" <haywoodj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d5dc888b-125b-4b8a...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Gibbscam Continued Lack Of A Tool Library:
The Following Comments Are Taken From The Highly Censored And
Moderated Gibbscam Message Board Where Many Posters Have Been Banned:
�I would like to know why as many times as I've heard people ask for a
tool library that Gibbs has not done something. I've listened to Bill
try and explain his reasons, but they just don't work for alot of us.
It's time to address this issue would you not agree.�
�Time to get with the program.
We run a prototype machine shop, stock 1000's of tools and only on
very rare occasion run the same program twice.
Saving templates gets unwieldy and complicated.
Saving processes just to import tools works for limited numbers of
tools.
A tool library with integrated cut data would save us a tremendous
amount of time and tedium. I know I've used competing software.
Has Anybody had any success with the tool import macro on V9?�
�is there any chance of getting this for a lathe soon?�
�I know this is an unsupported plug-in, but any info on this, Gibbs?�
�Absolutely. I think it's totally insane to NOT have one. Isn't the
whole idea of PCs in general, and PC-run machining, to take the
drudgery of repetition out -- as in manually entering the same data
over and over?
"There are various scabbed-on ways around it, but a tool library seems
SO fundamental, kinda like having electricity to run a shop. Pretty
inconvenient without it.
My suggestion has been, right-click on a tool tile and a drop-down
list pops up where you can select from your personal library that you
created.�
�Hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm in the process of entering data
for our 500 tool magazine. What a drag. Please Gibbs, give us users
what we need and repeatedly ask for!�
�Wow, a lot of good points from everybody. Personally, I would just
like to see a tool library.
While we're at it, let's throw in a user defined tool holder library.�
�With something so common-sense, widely needed and requested, and
available on other CAM programs, NOT going anywhere here . . . what
are our chances of getting OTHER, maybe lesser things in the works?
Zero to none?�
�I don't understand why, if your customers want a tool library, you
don't give them a tool library. I don't think they(we) want "work
arounds". They(we) want a tool library. I guess I just don't
understand why you wouldn't want to give the customers what they are
asking for.�
�Every time I see the words "Tool Library" in the post titles, I can
hear the pulleys of the Gibbs drawbridge creaking frantically as they
seek to sever their link to the invading marauders.�
cncmillgil
Ok Cimatron is the corporate "biggest looser" mis managed - end of
discussion.
Is it a bad software? IMO no. I'd still go heads-up with Delscam 4 SW
in the CNC machining arena. IE:Here's a complex 3D Pro/E, UG, Catia
assembly file: GO
I'd bet the farm Cimatron(with a good driver) would be making chips/
dusk(graphite) faster than anybody. With unlimited user defined tool
library/ libraries - containing speeds,feeds,holders,depth of
cuts,flat bottom-bull nose- ball- tapered- over burn,template
machining,knowledge of stock remaining, shall I go on?
Like I've said many times in the past, Its high end shit! Most small
job shops will not need that horsepower & capital investment. Why
drive a Ferrari instead of a Focus if all your doing is driving from
point A to B? Thus the market need for lower end Gibbs,MC,surfcam.
Good luck on the complaining ladies & happy drilling!
BTW anyone seen Kirk's "dancing drills"? I still need to go out for a
beer with'em.<g>
--
\|||/
(o o)
______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________
~ Gil ~
the self proclaimed IT13©® king
Cliff
>Good luck on the complaining ladies & happy drilling!
jb still loves you, right?
--
Cliff
Joe788
> I check Gibbscam message board every day and just because people ask a
> question or have a concern means nothing. Along with your quotes you should
> have posted some of the replays but I guess that would not be supporting
> your theory.
> Jerry
>
These people are doing more than asking. Their fucking sick of Bill
Gibbs's worthless, lying, bullshit. They want a tool library and they
wanted it five years ago. Several of the posters to that thread have
since dumped Gibbscam because it's so far behind.
I didn't include Bill Gibbs's response because Bill Gibbs is a lying
asshole who has made bad decision after bad decision on Gibbscam that
cost him his company. The latest Bill Gibbs lie told by Bill Gibbs
that I'm aware of was in the Gibbscam newsletter where Bill Gibbs
stated that by the end of this year Gibbscam would have an education
version of Gibbscam. This hasn't and won't happen. Any idea how much
not having an educational version of Gibbscam cost Bill Gibbs over the
years? Any idea how much market share CNC Software (Mastercam) gained
by having one?
As far as the Gibbs message board, I was the one who told you it
existed in the first place and to start using it.
In regards to your comments on what I posted doesn't support my
"theory":
It's a FACT that Gibbscam has no tool library and many people have had
nothing but problems with the Excel work around to this glaring
problem. Further, this workaround isn't "officially supported" by
Gibbs.
It simply takes way to long in Gibbscam to create many programs
because Gibbscam lags badly behind and doesn't have the tools needed
in a modern CADCAM program.
The following program will blow the fucking doors off Gibbscam time
wise to create a program from a native SolidWorks file.
http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/new-delcam-for-solidworks-video/
Joe788
Not to mention that most serious OEMs would never even consider
sending out the native Solidworks files. Facts are not important in
Banquerville.
heytwo
Humans are not supposed to use tool libraries .
Humans are not supposed to use text based computers .
Programmers use a common assembler , just long enough
to create primative low level subroutines that create lists
of addresses that integrate the low level primatives into
powerful graphics low level subroutines .
It should not take more than one day .
Dont use a host machine to do this work .
Dont be tempted to use any existing programming ,
create all O.S. and drivers , using your list of addresses as
a fast , powerful debugger to create everything .
No Drag-and-drop , PC speaks short groups and operator
can use a few SofyKeys ..
[Guess]
[YES]
[NO]
[Up]
[Down]
[Left]
[Right]
[back]
[Forward]
buttons to reply .
respond
24 hours ... no more
heytwo
But you're asking the company to put itself OUT OF BUSINESS .
Just a few improvements , and no one sends the company any
more money .
WXP is like that . No one uses , nor can use Vista nor W7 .
LAZY or INTIMIDATED ?
No one wants to fix the problem .
Its easy , once you start .
The secret to programming is DONT copy anything .
You cant learn anything from reading others code .
When you have created your low level Graphic primatives ,
using a common assembler , IGNORE all .
Dont waste one minute , copying nor learning others
code .
This can all happen , here at RCM , if you take an interest
in your CNC tools .
I will explain more , as you start the assembler .
I will explain how to create a low level , to speed up
the address list linking into the Dictionary .
The fast part of Dictionary is address lists ,
lists jump DIRECTLY from one low level to next
cause low level subroutines have only a [RETURN]
at the end of low level .
List are being used as a SUBROUTINE RETURN STACK .
Thus , ret stack pointer is pointed to start of an address list
every few hundred micro-seconds .
But this saves time , cause at run time , you cud
in-line the code ! You cud create a continous address list
from all those individual lists !
Programming is hard , if you learn by reading other ppls
code !
Jerry
ask questions and share their experience with other Gibbs users. I haven't
seen anyone there use the kind of language you use here.
When I started using Gibbs over a couple of years ago this was (and still
is) a huge help.
I met quite a few people like me very happy with the software and did read
few threads from people forced to learn other cad cam programs and talking
about how much easies it is to work with Gibbs.
I don't complain about anything in general, I find ways to fix problems and
use whatever is is as best as I can.
You can poke holes in anything if you want to but to me you will accomplish
more by learning it.
I went back and looked at some threads about tool libraries and I see people
asking but none is cursing and swearing.
In my tool list I have about 80 tools described ( I have 60 tools changer).
Those are the tools I have in the machine all the time and some that I use
often. This was always sufficient and I never felt I was wasting time.
Jerry
"Joe788" <larry...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d8eeddb7-52cf-45d1...@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Joe788
> Contrary to what you say Gibbs Forum is a very friendly place where people
> ask questions and share their experience with other Gibbs users. I haven't
> seen anyone there use the kind of language you use here.
> When I started using Gibbs over a couple of years ago this was (and still
> is) a huge help.
> I met quite a few people like me very happy with the software and did read
> few threads from people forced to learn other cad cam programs and talking
> about how much easies it is to work with Gibbs.
> I don't complain about anything in general, I find ways to fix problems and
> use whatever is is as best as I can.
> You can poke holes in anything if you want to but to me you will accomplish
> more by learning it.
> I went back and looked at some threads about tool libraries and I see people
> asking but none is cursing and swearing.
> In my tool list I have about 80 tools described ( I have 60 tools changer).
> Those are the tools I have in the machine all the time and some that I use
> often. This was always sufficient and I never felt I was wasting time.
> Jerry
>
Jerry, Jon's discontent with the Gibbs board comes from his inevitable
banning, just as his discontent with Gibbs comes from his inevitable
incompetence and frustration. He says the same thing about CNCZone,
Practical Machinist, Emastercam, etc.
He really believes that *everybody else* is crazy, and that he's
perfectly normal.
It's quite something to watch.
Joe788
> Contrary to what you say Gibbs Forum is a very friendly place where people
> ask questions and share their experience with other Gibbs users. I haven't
> seen anyone there use the kind of language you use here.
> When I started using Gibbs over a couple of years ago this was (and still
> is) a huge help.
> I met quite a few people like me very happy with the software and did read
> few threads from people forced to learn other cad cam programs and talking
> about how much easies it is to work with Gibbs.
> I don't complain about anything in general, I find ways to fix problems and
> use whatever is is as best as I can.
> You can poke holes in anything if you want to but to me you will accomplish
> more by learning it.
> I went back and looked at some threads about tool libraries and I see people
> asking but none is cursing and swearing.
> In my tool list I have about 80 tools described ( I have 60 tools changer).
> Those are the tools I have in the machine all the time and some that I use
> often. This was always sufficient and I never felt I was wasting time.
> Jerry
>Contrary to what you say Gibbs Forum is a very friendly place where people
> ask questions and share their experience with other Gibbs users.
That's why I sent you there.
> I haven't seen anyone there use the kind of language you use here.
Pretty hard to use the kind of language I use in an moderated and
censored format isn't it? Notice that even I don't use it on the
independent Mastercam forum I'm so involved in?
>I don't complain about anything in general, I find ways to fix problems and
> use whatever is is as best as I can.
I do both. If you don't complain usually nothing gets fixed. I didn't
coin the phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", someone else did
and I'm sure they did for good reason because it's often true.
> You can poke holes in anything if you want to but to me you will accomplish
> more by learning it.
I accomplish more by now staying as far away from Gibbscam as I
possibly can. If I'm going to use a piece of crap CADCAM system it
might as well be Mastercam because far more shops use it and it's
better than Gibbscam in many areas. Not all but many.
> I went back and looked at some threads about tool libraries and I see people
> asking but none is cursing and swearing.
Suggest you take a look through the tool library thread and find all
the people that were banned. At least one is from Canada.
Fuck Gibbscam and fuck Bill Gibbs. He's a lying asshole who's made bad
decision after bad decision and I hope I never have to use Gibbscam
again because they are an asshole company to do business with and
because Bill Gibbs is an arrogant bastard that has his head up his
ass. With the way Cimatron keep losing money hopefully I won't have to
wait to long before it's over for Gibbscam and someone else buys it
and gives it what it's needed for so long... a total rewrite from the
ground up as well as taking all development away from Bill Gibbs.
Joe788
> Fuck Gibbscam and fuck Bill Gibbs. He's a lying asshole who's made bad
> decision after bad decision and I hope I never have to use Gibbscam
> again because they are an asshole company to do business with and
> because Bill Gibbs is an arrogant bastard that has his head up his
> ass. With the way Cimatron keep losing money hopefully I won't have to
> wait to long before it's over for Gibbscam and someone else buys it
> and gives it what it's needed for so long... a total rewrite from the
> ground up as well as taking all development away from Bill Gibbs.
Jon Banquer calling somebody a liar, and faulting somebody for making
bad decision after bad decision.
WOW! Look in the mirror lately, buddy? Or better yet, read any of the
recent posts reminding you of your past?
Cliff
>When I started using Gibbs over a couple of years ago this was (and still
>is) a huge help.
Broomboy has not used it & could never learn it anyway.
He has enough probems trying to learn how to drill a few holes.
--
Cliff