Spartan-6
Antti
the wild already
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericschristiansen
I assume the spartan-6 mentioned there is not a typo
(actually i am almost sure it isnt)
Antti
Uwe Bonnes
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericschristiansen
I neither find XILINX. spartan or fpga mentioned in that resume.
--
Uwe Bonnes b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de
Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
Symon
"Uwe Bonnes" <b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message
news:glc2p3$er6$1...@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de...
> Antti <Antti....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> it seems that first references to the upcoming Spartan family are in
>> the wild already
>
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericschristiansen
>
>> I assume the spartan-6 mentioned there is not a typo
>> (actually i am almost sure it isnt)
>
> I neither find XILINX. spartan or fpga mentioned in that resume.
>
Look harder? Try CTRL-F ?
"o Control structure for the digital portion of the transceiver uses an
instantiated microBlaze processor running in a Xilinx Spartan 6 FPGA
o Component selection for the transceiver Common Public Radio Interface
(CPRI)
§ Selected SFP+ module used for the optical interface, and a Spartan 6 FPGA
running CPRI IP to handle the framing, mapping, and interleaving functions "
What happened to 4 & 5?
HTH., Syms.
MK
"Symon" <symon_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:glc3ro$ken$1...@news.motzarella.org...
They could not be made to work with MPMC3 !
> HTH., Syms.
>
Michael Kellett
Antti
> "Symon" <symon_bre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:glc3ro$ken$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Uwe Bonnes" <b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message
> >news:glc2p3$er6$1...@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de...
> >>> it seems that first references to the upcoming Spartan family are in
> >>> the wild already
>
> >>>http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericschristiansen
>
> >>> I assume the spartan-6 mentioned there is not a typo
> >>> (actually i am almost sure it isnt)
>
> >> I neither find XILINX. spartan or fpga mentioned in that resume.
>
> > Look harder? Try CTRL-F ?
>
> > "o Control structure for the digital portion of the transceiver uses an
> > instantiated microBlaze processor running in a Xilinx Spartan 6 FPGA
> > o Component selection for the transceiver Common Public Radio Interface
> > (CPRI)
> > § Selected SFP+ module used for the optical interface, and a Spartan 6
> > FPGA running CPRI IP to handle the framing, mapping, and interleaving
> > functions "
>
> > What happened to 4 & 5?
>
> They could not be made to work with MPMC3 !
>
> > HTH., Syms.
>
> Michael Kellett
ROTFL
sounds like a valid reason
Antti
Antti
> it seems that first references to the upcoming Spartan family are in
> the wild already
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericschristiansen
>
> (actually i am almost sure it isnt)
>
> Antti
it seems that printed version of EE Times has already Virtex-6
Spartan-6
advertizments in it. can not verify as do not have yet a print copy
the target url should be
so we should probably see there something pretty soon
as Xilinx can not delay the RP announcement any more
long when the print ads are alreayd running
Antti
Brian Drummond
<Antti....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 23, 11:24 am, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> it seems that first references to the upcoming Spartan family are in
>> the wild already
>it seems that printed version of EE Times has already Virtex-6
>Spartan-6
>advertizments in it. can not verify as do not have yet a print copy
>
>the target url should be
>
>www.xilinx.com/6
>
>so we should probably see there something pretty soon
>as Xilinx can not delay the RP announcement any more
>long when the print ads are alreayd running
"Everything Changes February 2, 2009
Sign up and be the first to know more about Virtex®-6 and Spartan®-6
FPGA Families."
Interesting, the Submit button appears broken, but if you edit
"testlinx.com" to "Xilinx.com", the registration may have worked.
Not quite ready to go live then...
- Brian
phil hays
>> it seems that printed version of EE Times has already Virtex-6
>> Spartan-6 advertizments in it. can not verify as do not have yet a
>> print copy
Online version of EE Times has the advertizement. Page 20 of the pdf.
Antti
wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:17:42 -0800 (PST), Antti
>
its not broken, was working now.
well will see, do they really say
"the Spartan-6 with ARM core will be available on digikey on <insert
date here>"
or please have patience.. the ES samples of arm enabled S-6 silicon
will
be shipping to EA customers in year 201x ?
but only a few days ;) to know this
Antti
-jg
Looks like Xilinx marketing want to 'resync' as the Virtex 6 and
Spartan 6
(and hey, it's a number higher than Altera so that's worth something
in their
world, right ;)
Anyone seen package choices for Spartan 6 yet ?
Are Xilinx going to push prices, or leave the sub $1 / Low power area
to Actel ?
-jg
rickman
> "Uwe Bonnes" <b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message
>
> news:glc2p3$er6$1...@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de...
>
> >> it seems that first references to the upcoming Spartan family are in
> >> the wild already
>
> >>http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericschristiansen
>
> >> I assume the spartan-6 mentioned there is not a typo
> >> (actually i am almost sure it isnt)
>
> > I neither find XILINX. spartan or fpga mentioned in that resume.
>
> Look harder? Try CTRL-F ?
>
> "o Control structure for the digital portion of the transceiver uses an
> instantiated microBlaze processor running in a Xilinx Spartan 6 FPGA
> o Component selection for the transceiver Common Public Radio Interface
> (CPRI)
> § Selected SFP+ module used for the optical interface, and a Spartan 6 FPGA
> running CPRI IP to handle the framing, mapping, and interleaving functions "
>
> What happened to 4 & 5?
> HTH., Syms.
I guess the felt the spartan and virtex names needed to be on the same
level. Are they really bringing both out at the same time? That
seems pretty extreme. I remember when at the 90 nm node they brought
out the Spartan 3 first because they thought the cost advantage was
more important in the "value" parts. Then they ignored the Spartan
family and brought out the Virtex at 65 nm node because it was more
cost effective to amortize the investment over the higer price chips.
I wonder if the huge effort of bringing both out is going to pay off
given the current economic situation. I'm sure this took a huge
investment and if they don't sell enough chips, it maybe a case of
very bad timing for Xilinx resulting in loss of market share.
They say timing is everything.
Rick
rickman
I sure wish they would support the smaller leaded packages. A decent
sized chip in a 100 pin QFP would be so nice; low price, easy assembly
and good access to the pins for debug. I don't get why they haven't
done this before. Every I/O adds cost. They won't get under $10 in
moderate quanties until they pick some better packages.
Rick
Antti
Sorry Rick I can not comment in public. I hope it all be known on
monday.
I have some comments, i make them public as soon as the info is no
longer under NDA
(that is i can comment on what xilinx has made public itself)
Antti
Leon
I just had an email from Xilinx announcing the Virtex-6 and Spartan-6:
http://www.xilinx.com/products/v6s6.htm
Leon
Leon
TQ144 is the smallest Spartan-6.
Leon
Uwe Bonnes
Antti
darmstadt.de> wrote:
it could be that there is one BIG client who needs this package
this also explains why it was in initial offering for the S3A
as only non-BGA (at initial announcment of s3a)
Antti
Symon
Hi,
It might be the only TQ package that has a hope in hell of having decent SI
performance with the rise times of these new parts. I'd suggest only QFNs
would be an alternative to the BGA packages. I see 3.3V logic has gone from
the V6 parts.
Cheers, Syms.
rickman
The last time I looked at a Xilinx part, the edge rates were
programmable. Besides, if you are in a 100 pin package, you don't
have to provide for ground currents of 200 pins. Most will provide 60
some I/Os with around 6 to 8 I/Os per ground and power pin pair. It
is the high pin count packages that have trouble with ground bounce
and fast edge rates that have trouble with SI issues.
I have a current design that is using a 100 QFP with a 3000 LUT part.
The initial design is using around 2000 of those LUTs. If I need to
expand the design, which may be an enhancement request from the
customer, I may not be able to provide it without going to a new
package which will raise the cost. It would be nice to have choices
of chips in the small packages without paying more for BGAs. The
other choice in this case is to remove the FPGA and use an MCU/DSP
with a small CPLD for the specialized hardware. This won't be more
expensive in recurring costs, but will have higher development costs
of course.
The QFNs are an option, but there are still few in low pin counts
which is what drives the part cost from what I have been told.
Rick
james
<Jim.Gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
|> What happened to 4 & 5?
|
|Looks like Xilinx marketing want to 'resync' as the Virtex 6 and
|Spartan 6
|(and hey, it's a number higher than Altera so that's worth something
|in their
|world, right ;)
|
|Anyone seen package choices for Spartan 6 yet ?
|
try this link
http://www.xilinx.com/products/v6s6.htm
james
-jg
Comments:
Xilinx have goofed and made one PDF (Spartan6_Overview.pdf) non-
selectable
Smallest package is TQG144, 0.5mm 20mm sides - 2 parts in that
package
VCO looks good : - 400MHz-1100MHz, and 8 phases out.
Missing:
Any notes on prices, or relative speeds of IP ?
and Rather Too much of this sort of nonsense-fluff : "Fulfilling the
Programmable Imperative"
rickman
>
> and Rather Too much of this sort of nonsense-fluff : "Fulfilling the
> Programmable Imperative"
Are you saying that you don't care if your programmable imperative is
fulfilled or not???
;^)
-jg
I'm not even sure where to find my programmable imperative !! ;)
Simon
to actually start delivering these things, and how much will they
cost ?
I can't really believe they haven't *got* that information, so why the
staged release of info ?
Simon
rickman
Whatttt??? Are you saying that you want to put a price and schedule
on fulfilling your programmable imperative?
Rick
Antti
yes, we would like to see the price tag on the "programmable
imperative"
well, Xilinx is now the second company offering high speed serdes in
the low cost family, while Lattice being the only one currently
shipping
low cost with serdes (ECP family)
if i recall correctly Lattice rule of thumb is 1KLUT=1$
hmm the small volume pricing seems to be more 1KLUT=1.5$
so i bet the S-6 pricing should line up somewhere close
say in range 1-2$ per KLUT probably less then 1$ for some devices in
large volume
Antti
-jg
> well, this is all very nice, but more importantly, when are they going
- cost ?
-
- I can't really believe they haven't *got* that information, so why
the
- staged release of info ?
Maybe they don't yet have yield info?.
No price point, and 2H 2009 timelines, all suggest they have first
silicon only.
Even MHz specs are hard to find...
Other companies have stock at Digikey when they do Product
announcements/press releases...
-jg
oen_br
"One Spartan-6 FPGA, an LX16 device, is already sampling..."
"The Spartan-6 family is priced at between about $3 and $54 in high
volume of 10,000 units..."
All I could find.
Luiz Carlos
Antti
> http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=N5KULYMEMNGWUQSND...
>
> "One Spartan-6 FPGA, an LX16 device, is already sampling..."
> "The Spartan-6 family is priced at between about $3 and $54 in high
> volume of 10,000 units..."
>
> All I could find.
>
> Luiz Carlos
Hm. if that pricing is correct (but seems to come directly from
Xilinx!)
then it pretty nice (low)
from 1.5$ down to 0.5$ per 1K LUT (from smallest to largest device)
but.. it seems that even Spartan-3A family isnt fully shipping,
there is NO STOCK of any of the newer packages offerings at all,
0 zero stock all distributors. Of course the cheaper package is
the one that is not available.
Antti
Georg Acher
oen_br <oen_n...@yahoo.com.br> writes:
|> http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=N5KULYMEMNGWUQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=213000271
|>
|> "One Spartan-6 FPGA, an LX16 device, is already sampling..."
|> "The Spartan-6 family is priced at between about $3 and $54 in high
|> volume of 10,000 units..."
According to my experience with Digikey et al., it will then be between $20 and
$300 for a single chip. The Digikey/Avnet/NuHorizon prices are ridiculously
high...
--
Georg Acher, ac...@in.tum.de
http://www.lrr.in.tum.de/~acher
"Oh no, not again !" The bowl of petunias
-jg
> "The Spartan-6 family is priced at between about $3 and $54 in high
> volume of 10,000 units..."
10,000 is not really 'high volumes' ?
Xilinx used to quote "Over the Horizon" prices,
eg for parts 250,000 pcs, delivered at the end of 2010.
Maybe sense finally prevails....?
-jg
Eric Smith
When was the last time that a semiconductor vendor gave you such
information about a major new product release, and the information
actually proved to be reasonably accurate?
rickman
I agree that their previous pricing was pretty absurd. I wonder if
*any* customers ever got those numbers. Still, I think 10,000 is not
very realistic for many of us, but then anyone buying less than 10,000
is likely not even on the Xilinx radar screen. Personally, I like the
way TI does it listing the 1000 piece price and giving direct links to
the disti's web pages showing real prices.
I will very surprised if they can really sell any of the Spartan 6
parts for $3. The smallest part they sell has 100 I/Os and who knows
how much logic. I think it is about 2K LUTs and 4K FFs. From what I
have been told most of the cost of a small part is from the testing
and that is dominated by the I/O count. The cheapest part is likely
going to be around $10 at qty 1000 IMHO.
Rick
Kim Enkovaara
> When was the last time that a semiconductor vendor gave you such
> information about a major new product release, and the information
> actually proved to be reasonably accurate?
Under NDA for bigger customers the vendors give very accurate
information way before the launch and quite accurate estimates
on sample deliveries etc. Of course there are possible slips but
they estimate then new schedules. Many people do designs for
those chips way before the public release, and have own product
launch schedules also.
--Kim
-jg
> I will very surprised if they can really sell any of the Spartan 6
> parts for $3. The smallest part they sell has 100 I/Os and who knows
> how much logic. I think it is about 2K LUTs and 4K FFs. From what I
> have been told most of the cost of a small part is from the testing
> and that is dominated by the I/O count. The cheapest part is likely
> going to be around $10 at qty 1000 IMHO.
Sounds about right.
Smallest part says 3366 Logic cells, 9101 for larger sibling, and
largest in TQFG144.
I would paste in the table but Xilinx has disabled COPY in the PDF,
and I would
give a link to a google find that would allow you to View as HTML, but
google
cannot find the named pdf, even when pointed to Xilinx.com.
Seems Xilinx really is doing everything to prevent anyone sharing this
information!!
[I wonder if they even realize this....]
-jg
Simon
Agreed, but then you take the price-estimate the vendor gave for the
last series, get the 1-off, 100-off, 1000-off price (at launch) from
your parts-source of choice, calculate the ratio and apply to the new
vendor price as an approximation :)
Simon
Antti
Simon,
simple math approx
cheapest S3A qty one digikey price is 6.8$
from that i would derive 10k price to fall below 4$ (after price
battle negotations...)
if we assume some % price drop for S6
then we get what? 3$
So the price given by Xilinx (smallest S6 qty 10k = 3$) and publisched
by Peter Clarke may actually be accurate.
Antti
oen_br
http://www.insidedsp.com/Articles/tabid/64/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/294/Default.aspx
"Specific chip pricing has not yet been disclosed, but Xilinx says it
will be in the range of $2-$35 for Spartan-6 and $57-$2100 for
Virtex-6. This pricing is for large quantities in the second half of
2011, which is when the chips are expected to go into volume
production."
Second half of 2011????
It's a long wait!
Luiz Carlos
Antti
> From InsideDSP:http://www.insidedsp.com/Articles/tabid/64/articleType/ArticleView/ar...
>
> "Specific chip pricing has not yet been disclosed, but Xilinx says it
> will be in the range of $2-$35 for Spartan-6 and $57-$2100 for
> Virtex-6. This pricing is for large quantities in the second half of
> 2011, which is when the chips are expected to go into volume
> production."
>
> Second half of 2011????
> It's a long wait!
>
> Luiz Carlos
well it says: expected :)
if something doesnt go so well, the expected will be shifting even
further away into the future
i wonder if S3A ALL devices will be shipping in H1 2011?
or maybe they will be already be obsoleted by that.
S3A VQ100 seems to be still unavailable...
Antti