$10 STM32 kit
Leon
http://www.st.com/mcu/contentid-133-110-STM32VLDISCOVERY.html
They've ensured that everyone has plenty of stock, unlike TI with
their $4.30 MSP430 board. I've only just received the latter, despite
ordering them ages ago.
Leon
Leon
larwe
> ST is jumping on the bandwagon with a $10 kit for the STM32:
>
> http://www.st.com/mcu/contentid-133-110-STM32VLDISCOVERY.html
VERY COOL! Thanks for that link.
rickman
I think licensing has gotten out of control. I am a member of IEEE
and chair of a local group. We were being moved to a new web site
host platform and I had to accept the user agreement. When I got to
the indemnification clause, I hit the brakes realizing that although
the likelihood of it ever being enforced was remote, my potential
liability was unlimited and uncontrolled. So I declined, others have
declined and we now are looking for a preferable web presence.
The license ST is asking you to accept says you don't own the eval
board! I've never seen that on hardware before. What is the point of
"licensing" the hardware to engineers to evaluate the product. What
the devil are they afraid of???
Rick
linnix
Using it in a real product? They want you to buy the chip, not the
board in volume. They must be taking heavy losses on the board.
Jon Kirwan
Thanks, Leon. The "STM32VLDISCOVERY (the solution costs less
than $10)" doesn't seem correct, though. I tried each of the
listed disty types and they all want about $11.85 (sans
shipping or order limit issues.) That's almost %20 more. One
of the links doesn't even show up a valid page (Avnet's.)
Jon
Paul
c46fc5...@i17g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>, gnu...@gmail.com says...
Basically everybody wants to move to the latest fad 'cloud' everything
in other words you never own anything, have no assetts and pay anuual or
monthly subscriptions for everything to milk more money out of people
using the financial industry model for insurance etc.
Recently had an invite to use a mbed cloud compiler for evaluation.
No thanks as no doubt the licensing, and SLA for availability of my
files will be whenever we can. If my systems fail I can work around it.
If I need a specific version I can sort it. Cloud everything means all
control, even data security goes out the window.
--
Paul Carpenter | pa...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate
Jon Kirwan
I just read the license. It's not quite as annoying as I
first figured upon reading rickman's comment about it
(separately, his comment about the new web site platform is
intriguing, also.) I gather they don't want their boards
which were made for demo purposes and not vetted out for
anything else winding up in someone's product and therefore,
come hell or high water, open for possible litigation that
might reach back to some deep pocket (namely, theirs.)
Writing it up this way probably provides the maximum possible
protection from anyone reaching back to them.
Might become a template other companies may use?
Jon
linnix
If anythng goes wrong, the micro would be the first to blame. Are
they going to loan out all their micros? What if they demand their
micros back from all my customers? I would rather buy NXP in that
case.
Jon Kirwan
<m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:
Well, I took this to be just about the demo board as a whole
unit... not about the cpu. Did you read it differently?
Jon
John Speth
"Paul" <pa...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.2702e6674...@172.16.0.1...
It sounds like your inner crotchety old man is showing through :)
I empathize with you. Today's implementation of "cloud" stuff is risky and
not for everybody. But I think it's the evolution of the networked world,
for all that anyone can dream up right now.
We can fight it and live our lives on our front stoop retired or we can
embrace it with a healthy dose of your skepticism.
JJS
Jon Kirwan
I see Arrow has them for slightly over $10:
http://app.arrownac.com/aws/pg_webc/0,1086,,00.html?application=SEARCH&appid=nac&event=1020&docid=49099771S8561546N7728
Jon
John Speth
>
> http://www.st.com/mcu/contentid-133-110-STM32VLDISCOVERY.html
What I've always wondered about these ultra-cheap dev kits is What motivates
the vendor to price them so low?
If you're a pro, it really doesn't matter if it's $10 or $50. You'll pay
more because you might have hugely larger more money to reap if you use the
chip in your next design. That expense is insignificant. So maybe it's
priced so low that anyone who's curous will find it so low they'll just pay
out of pocket. The vendor will get more hands-on introductions that way but
it brings into the group of purchasers those who are only casually
interested and not just the ones who are seriously considering to use the
chip. Does the vendor think the casual ones will someday become serious in
large enough numbers?
Then there's the hobbyists and tinkerers. Are those groups the vendor's
targets too?
I know from my own experience that when I get a cheap dev kit, the joyful
and productive toying phase of using it is often short and then I end it
with little learned except how to blink an LED. The more expensive ones
that are loaded up with I/O ports are much more fun and those are the ones I
play with more and would likely use in the future.
JJS
larwe
> The license ST is asking you to accept says you don't own the eval
> board! I've never seen that on hardware before. What is the point of
Did you read the section below that, about WEEE?
MY guess is that this "you don't own it" language is there to avoid
the payment of e-waste fees, which helps keep the cost down. So, blame
Brussels as usual.
larwe
> I know from my own experience that when I get a cheap dev kit, the joyful
> and productive toying phase of using it is often short and then I end it
> with little learned except how to blink an LED. The more expensive ones
> that are loaded up with I/O ports are much more fun and those are the ones I
> play with more and would likely use in the future.
For me, the most useful eval kit is the micro on a bare minimum size
PCB with .100" header pin to every pin of the device. Perhaps if they
also put a JTAG connector and space for a crystal on the board, that
is ok. ANYTHING else on the eval board just annoys me as I try to
connect the micro to whatever hardware I actually want to drive.
Jim Stewart
Speaking from experience selling inexpensive
controller boards for 15 year, I can say that
for every dev kit that actually developed into
a product, there's at least 5 more sitting on
top of a file cabinet in the engineer's office.
My real appreciation of good salespeople is
their ability to pick up the phone and get the
engineer to take my dev kit off the filing
cabinet and make a product out of it.
Paul
Considering to have it work with everything you will have to rewite the
laws of most countries of the world as financial, medical, personal and
patentable records are just a small subset that businesses, agencies,
governments and individuls cannot use it for. In some cases without
breaking several existing laws.
Several licensing bodies in quite a few countries do not allow members
to use offline backup systems as the suppliers cannot even guarantee
which country the backup will be held in. Let alone SLA, indemnity
insurance levels and other contactual things that could screw a
business.
> We can fight it and live our lives on our front stoop retired or we
can
> embrace it with a healthy dose of your skepticism.
Most of it is hype and is only useful to individual who do not care
if the only copy of their CV is lost due to poor SLA, or their records
sold by corrupt employees.
This sort of thing has already happened with outsourcing in the last 5
years.
Paul
>
> > ST is jumping on the bandwagon with a $10 kit for the STM32:
> >
> > http://www.st.com/mcu/contentid-133-110-STM32VLDISCOVERY.html
>
> What I've always wondered about these ultra-cheap dev kits is What motivates
> the vendor to price them so low?
>
> If you're a pro, it really doesn't matter if it's $10 or $50. You'll pay
> more because you might have hugely larger more money to reap if you use the
> chip in your next design. That expense is insignificant. So maybe it's
> priced so low that anyone who's curous will find it so low they'll just pay
> out of pocket. The vendor will get more hands-on introductions that way but
> it brings into the group of purchasers those who are only casually
> interested and not just the ones who are seriously considering to use the
> chip. Does the vendor think the casual ones will someday become serious in
> large enough numbers?
>
> Then there's the hobbyists and tinkerers. Are those groups the vendor's
> targets too?
Maybe they hope some university will use them for courses and get
introductions that way. Thus being so low priced, they can say it is
priced low enough already to avoid educational discounting.
> I know from my own experience that when I get a cheap dev kit, the joyful
> and productive toying phase of using it is often short and then I end it
> with little learned except how to blink an LED. The more expensive ones
> that are loaded up with I/O ports are much more fun and those are the ones I
> play with more and would likely use in the future.
Likewise as long as it does not get too expensive.
PFC
> Then there's the hobbyists and tinkerers. Are those groups the vendor's
> targets too?
Why not ? Targeting students might be a good bet. Once they're hired, they
may use your product if they have hacked on it before.
Matej@OS|SB
And, if one of them at some time make/design new product/s, one might
as well use that MCU. They give people an opportunity to get familiar
with their products. It's like samples of hair shampoo, soap, or
perfume. You might like it, you tested it for free. You buy it, and
perhaps use it for “many “years at much higher price than free :D It
seems to me that in the nature of people, is to be loyal...
I don't understand why one would say that for professionals it doesn't
matter if price is 50$ or 10$?
You get a chance to test all flavors of an ice cream for the price of
one huge one taste ice cream ball.
Didi
> ...
> I don't understand why one would say that for professionals it doesn't
> matter if price is 50$ or 10$?
That simply depends on the professional. Some would want to be
flexible
and have tasted as many as possible devices/architectures. Others
(e.g.
myself) would carefully consider on which device to allocate time
and resources since the choice, once made, will be with them for years
to come.
Dimiter
------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/
bigbrownbeastie
then the engineers and may be selected for valid reasons.
If you have not realized, mbed is rapid prototyping tool, the clue is
in the webpage title... code from here is supposed to be on the shelf
after proving.
Talk about young dumb and living off mom. You are a moaning fanboy
and should be banned from your mommy and daddy’s modem.
> Basically everybody wants to move to the latest fad 'cloud' everything
> in other words you never own anything, have no assetts and pay anuual or
> monthly subscriptions for everything to milk more money out of people
> using the financial industry model for insurance etc.
>
> Recently had an invite to use a mbed cloud compiler for evaluation.
> No thanks as no doubt the licensing, and SLA for availability of my
> files will be whenever we can. If my systems fail I can work around it.
> If I need a specific version I can sort it. Cloud everything means all
> control, even data security goes out the window.
>
> --
> Paul Carpenter | p...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
bigbrownbeastie
would like hobby or near zero volume projects to pay for the board
meeting biscuits. As well as small viral media press clips on cool
but useless propeller clocks, LED scrollers etc etc
On Sep 21, 6:35 pm, "John Speth" <johnsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > ST is jumping on the bandwagon with a $10 kit for the STM32:
D Yuniskis
> On Sep 22, 8:56 am, PFC <li...@peufeu.com> wrote:
>>> Then there's the hobbyists and tinkerers. Are those groups the vendor's
>>> targets too?
>> Why not ? Targeting students might be a good bet. Once they're hired, they
>> may use your product if they have hacked on it before.
You're assuming the orgainization supports this flexibility of
choice.
In some shops, The Hardware Guy has the lion's share of the processor
choice; in others, The Software Guy does (especially for firms that
don't design their own hardware); still others split this somewhat
rationally.
Some shops place bias on "systems" that they have already used.
Or, on those for which they have toolkits or existing library
support investments.
> And, if one of them at some time make/design new product/s, one might
> as well use that MCU. They give people an opportunity to get familiar
> with their products. It's like samples of hair shampoo, soap, or
> perfume. You might like it, you tested it for free. You buy it, and
Ah, but this analogy is incorrect! "Testing" shampoo/soap/perfume
has very little cost *and* very little risk (if the soap "smells
bad", you take another shower, etc.). OTOH, testing an MCU has
a considerable cost (learning curve, etc.) -- which is why vendors
try so hard to keep the real costs (development board + tools $$)
and "intangible" costs (how quickly can you make that LED blink?)
low. If you have to invest more than "petty cash", there is a
political impediment in most companies -- namely, getting approval
for the purchase. If you have to invest serious *time*, that
impediment is even greater (hence the appeal to peddle things that
an "enthusiastic engineer" can bring home and play with on his
own time -- and own *dime*!).
The bigger concern is the *risk* attendant with such a "let's try
this MCU" approach. Few firms want to "play" with new devices
SOLELY for the sake of "getting experience" with yet another MCU.
Why risk discovering "once you're pregnant" that the device has
critical flaws? Or, they can't get their fab ramped up quickly
enough? Or, that some other HUGE player has bought all of the
available production for the next N months?
> perhaps use it for “many “years at much higher price than free :D It
> seems to me that in the nature of people, is to be loyal...
I don't think people are "naturally loyal". Rather, I think
they are some mix of "lazy" (minimize effort) and "timid"
(minimize risk). "Inertia" is a better word than "loyalty".
> I don't understand why one would say that for professionals it doesn't
> matter if price is 50$ or 10$?
A "professional" usually sees the "$10" or "$50" cost as trivial
in the greater scheme of things. He/she knows that the *true*
cost of this venture is many orders of magnitude greater. So,
the difference between 10 and 50 sits *in* the noise floor...
Matej@OS|SB
I see professional as open minded, I know that one cant be vary good
at many platforms/devices. But having ability to test myths of
devices(with debug) from other manufacturers is simply great.
Currently, situation is not so great for developers, manufacturers
make you specialize their tools, devices, spend big corp. money(or
personal) which management(you) doesn't like, and later switch is
quiet painful. Me as young engineer/student like to have broad
knowledge on technology and devices. Specialize on one manufacturer
device family could be bad decision(platform is OK, I think). Because
many business have internal contract with different manufactures and
their devices. When time comes I will have enough knowledge and money
to buy some eval. board and quicker pass first steps... Hmmm, I hope
that realistic scenario =)
Mel
> I don't understand why one would say that for professionals it doesn't
> matter if price is 50$ or 10$?
> You get a chance to test all flavors of an ice cream for the price of
> one huge one taste ice cream ball.
It's arguable. For me, a $10 board that I don't use is a $10 loss. If I
actually try some development with a board, I'll put in enough time to dwarf
the price difference from a $50 board. I have a threshold somewhere below
$100 where I start to care.
Mel.
John Devereux
> ST is jealous of the Atmel Ardino and NXP mbed users, as they too
> would like hobby or near zero volume projects to pay for the board
> meeting biscuits. As well as small viral media press clips on cool
> but useless propeller clocks, LED scrollers etc etc
I got the impression Microchip started with this model. Possibly the
first with cheap / free tools, support for small users and hobbyists
etc. Seems to have worked for them. (Never used them myself since the
original PIC architecture was so ugly, and now there is ARM...)
[...]
--
John Devereux