Alternative is the new mainstream
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JF
Nov 7, 2009, 11:33:13 PM11/7/09
to Comics Community Singapore
The subject line says it all, but if you want the long story, read on.
About 4 or 5 years ago, I had a chat with someone and it forced me to
rethink my assumptions about I thought were mainstream and alternative
comics.
My assumptions, simply, were that traditional superheroes were
mainstream, and Vertigo and manga were alternative. It turned out I
was living in the past.
The person I chatted with was Boey Meihan, who back then was still
working at Kino. I asked her casually what the all-time bestselling
comic book title was at Kino, and she did not hesitate when she said
"Sandman". Her answer surprised me. Or maybe it didn't.
I don't have the statistics, but look around you. All the big
bookstores which everyone goes to are the mainstream. All the little
shops catering to fans subscribing to 24-page periodical pamphlet-
format superhero comics are niche. The big bookstores don't sell thin
24-pagers. They sell thick manga and graphic novels. Morpheus is
king, and it ain't just a dream.
A French publisher which Sonny and Hong Teng are in contact with is
looking for the next Blankets, because he knows his market and he
knows what sells. Craig Thompson and Neil Gaiman are the new rock
stars (okay, maybe not so new). You can confirm it by trying and
failing to get a ticket to see Gaiman in Singapore. 900 people in a
crowded theatre is no mean feat.
There is a long-term trend in the monthly bestsellers list which Kenny
at Kino provides to Cheng Tju to publish on our Singapore Comix blog.
Manga and Fables consistently dominate the top 10, effortlessly.
Traditional superheroes have to struggle by doing movie tie-ins and
promotional gimmicks just to get their 15 minutes in the limelight.
Consumers vote with their wallets, and they're starving for well-told
stories which pull them in, speak to them, and capture their
imagination. Adolescent power fantasies just don't cut it. I have
faith that if a creator takes the time to master the craft and tell
good honest stories for thinking adults, and keep at it with a little
market-savvy, success will follow. And don't forget to build up your
body of work.
(Phew. I've been wanting to write this post for a long time, and I
finally found the time to do it.)
JF
About 4 or 5 years ago, I had a chat with someone and it forced me to
rethink my assumptions about I thought were mainstream and alternative
comics.
My assumptions, simply, were that traditional superheroes were
mainstream, and Vertigo and manga were alternative. It turned out I
was living in the past.
The person I chatted with was Boey Meihan, who back then was still
working at Kino. I asked her casually what the all-time bestselling
comic book title was at Kino, and she did not hesitate when she said
"Sandman". Her answer surprised me. Or maybe it didn't.
I don't have the statistics, but look around you. All the big
bookstores which everyone goes to are the mainstream. All the little
shops catering to fans subscribing to 24-page periodical pamphlet-
format superhero comics are niche. The big bookstores don't sell thin
24-pagers. They sell thick manga and graphic novels. Morpheus is
king, and it ain't just a dream.
A French publisher which Sonny and Hong Teng are in contact with is
looking for the next Blankets, because he knows his market and he
knows what sells. Craig Thompson and Neil Gaiman are the new rock
stars (okay, maybe not so new). You can confirm it by trying and
failing to get a ticket to see Gaiman in Singapore. 900 people in a
crowded theatre is no mean feat.
There is a long-term trend in the monthly bestsellers list which Kenny
at Kino provides to Cheng Tju to publish on our Singapore Comix blog.
Manga and Fables consistently dominate the top 10, effortlessly.
Traditional superheroes have to struggle by doing movie tie-ins and
promotional gimmicks just to get their 15 minutes in the limelight.
Consumers vote with their wallets, and they're starving for well-told
stories which pull them in, speak to them, and capture their
imagination. Adolescent power fantasies just don't cut it. I have
faith that if a creator takes the time to master the craft and tell
good honest stories for thinking adults, and keep at it with a little
market-savvy, success will follow. And don't forget to build up your
body of work.
(Phew. I've been wanting to write this post for a long time, and I
finally found the time to do it.)
JF
HiHo
Nov 9, 2009, 7:02:38 AM11/9/09
to Comics Community Singapore
Yes JF, this is a very interesting subject.
But the question here is, are those who buy manga and Fables mostly
comic fans or casual readers?
There is a difference between the two types of consumers. Would that
really matter to anything? I don't know. And most of the comics in the
list come from America and Japan. So what does it say about local
comics?
Before I continue, I want to state that the term "mainstream" is a
very dynamic word. What can be popular with adults may not be as
popular with kids, so it can encompass different things for different
ages. Mainstream also does not mean being less intellectual. So a
comic like Sandman is mainstream. And because Neil Gaiman has ventured
beyond comics, some fans are just simply Neil Gaiman fans, and have no
interest in comics. And so i enter into fan criticism again to my
displeasure!
The problem that I always address is the lack of awareness and
understanding for comics. Reading a comic does not necessarily mean
one knows a comic. You can watch a movie, you know the story, but do
you know what it is about? To personally interpret a movie requires an
individual to have education in film. To proclaim that one has read
the entire series of Sandman is equivalent in genre fiction to the
proclamation of having read the entire Lord of the Rings or every
Harry Potter book (for the kids). But of course these things are here
to stay. And I have indirectly criticised people again.
But as I said before, mainstream is dominant and is here to stay. But
I am not interested in the mainstream audience. I am simply trying to
make awareness for art comics (if you want to define alternative that
way JF, I have to use another term) and find similar people who are
interested in such comics.
No one here has mentioned the Brothers Hernandez, Lynda Barry, Seth,
Jeffery Brown etc. They are well known in USA to the comic crowd, and
probably to a lesser extent here in Singapore. Why is that so? Could
it be that comics such as Blankets got attention by winning the
Eisner? What about the Ignatz award or the Angouleme awards?
You know what the problem is, you cannot address a subject regarding
people without some sort of criticism. I can say positive things, with
a lot of sugar sprinkled, but it would not mean anything.
Should we criticize our local readers for not being more active in
understanding comics? Or should we just let it pass? Consider that the
movie-going audience is predominantly Hollywood. Should we even care
if there is an audience for art comics?
What would make a good topic about comics that does not have to enter
human realms?
But the question here is, are those who buy manga and Fables mostly
comic fans or casual readers?
There is a difference between the two types of consumers. Would that
really matter to anything? I don't know. And most of the comics in the
list come from America and Japan. So what does it say about local
comics?
Before I continue, I want to state that the term "mainstream" is a
very dynamic word. What can be popular with adults may not be as
popular with kids, so it can encompass different things for different
ages. Mainstream also does not mean being less intellectual. So a
comic like Sandman is mainstream. And because Neil Gaiman has ventured
beyond comics, some fans are just simply Neil Gaiman fans, and have no
interest in comics. And so i enter into fan criticism again to my
displeasure!
The problem that I always address is the lack of awareness and
understanding for comics. Reading a comic does not necessarily mean
one knows a comic. You can watch a movie, you know the story, but do
you know what it is about? To personally interpret a movie requires an
individual to have education in film. To proclaim that one has read
the entire series of Sandman is equivalent in genre fiction to the
proclamation of having read the entire Lord of the Rings or every
Harry Potter book (for the kids). But of course these things are here
to stay. And I have indirectly criticised people again.
But as I said before, mainstream is dominant and is here to stay. But
I am not interested in the mainstream audience. I am simply trying to
make awareness for art comics (if you want to define alternative that
way JF, I have to use another term) and find similar people who are
interested in such comics.
No one here has mentioned the Brothers Hernandez, Lynda Barry, Seth,
Jeffery Brown etc. They are well known in USA to the comic crowd, and
probably to a lesser extent here in Singapore. Why is that so? Could
it be that comics such as Blankets got attention by winning the
Eisner? What about the Ignatz award or the Angouleme awards?
You know what the problem is, you cannot address a subject regarding
people without some sort of criticism. I can say positive things, with
a lot of sugar sprinkled, but it would not mean anything.
Should we criticize our local readers for not being more active in
understanding comics? Or should we just let it pass? Consider that the
movie-going audience is predominantly Hollywood. Should we even care
if there is an audience for art comics?
What would make a good topic about comics that does not have to enter
human realms?
HiHo
Nov 9, 2009, 7:43:21 AM11/9/09
to Comics Community Singapore
I guess a more positive possiblity would be to say that the consumers
are getting more intelligent about their choice of entertainment.
But given that today's pop culture is known to be less intellectual,
as compared to say during Shakespeare's era, would that be a valid
possiblity?
That is if an individual were to engage in a more intellectual book,
be it literature or comics, does that necessarily make him or her more
intelligent? If the society is becoming more intellectual and
maturing, why does the government need to ban Playboy or avoid having
a multi-party rule, that is one where every party have equal control
of the nation affairs.
So it all boils down to not what they are reading, but how they view
comics. And if comics are truly viewed seriously, why does the MDA,
last from what I read about their first writer's competition, regard
comics only as a form of entertainment?
And so i ask this to anyone reading this? What is important to you in
comics? The profit? The art? The entertainment (or masturbation) value?
are getting more intelligent about their choice of entertainment.
But given that today's pop culture is known to be less intellectual,
as compared to say during Shakespeare's era, would that be a valid
possiblity?
That is if an individual were to engage in a more intellectual book,
be it literature or comics, does that necessarily make him or her more
intelligent? If the society is becoming more intellectual and
maturing, why does the government need to ban Playboy or avoid having
a multi-party rule, that is one where every party have equal control
of the nation affairs.
So it all boils down to not what they are reading, but how they view
comics. And if comics are truly viewed seriously, why does the MDA,
last from what I read about their first writer's competition, regard
comics only as a form of entertainment?
And so i ask this to anyone reading this? What is important to you in
comics? The profit? The art? The entertainment (or masturbation) value?
wern.u!
Nov 9, 2009, 12:01:35 PM11/9/09
to comics-cr...@googlegroups.com
to quote a slightly famous person's view of alienating the thresholds and getting stupider audience
"I guess it’s more satisfying to have a hardcore fan base than mainstream approval.
On the contrary, I saw, over the years, some of the dangers of what can happen when a band either gets big really fast, or is indie for a long time, and all of a sudden they have [snaps fingers] that one song on Grey’s Anatomy, and they go from playing thousand-seat venues to playing arenas, and they’re really unhappy because they look out and they don’t feel as connected. Their fans - the threshold gets fucked up, their fans get stupider, and they feel weird about what they’re doing on stage. It’s kind of a blessing in one sense because you think, ‘this one thing has drawn people into the rest of our music and the 10 albums we came out with before this happened.’ Death Cab for Cutie, for instance. But it really alienates the hardcore fans. " AFP
screw the imbeciles and philistines!!! crucify them for jumping on the bandwagon!!! find your own bagpiping cause and bagpiping do it!!!
tongue in cheek of course
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