So I was sitting on my back porch watching a freight train rumble by,
reflecting that there seems to be a lot more rail traffic these days. I
postulated what that might reflect of the economy. Then I wondered if
there really is more traffic, or if I'm just noticing it more since I'm a
new daddy? My tykes LOVE the trains. They stop whatever is going on to
watch them pass before waving "bye-bye choo-choo!"
Now I'm thinking about a data logging train detector. How would that work?
Exactly what data would it record? What would the data reveal? Would the
data be interesting to anyone else?
Personally, I'm most interested in the detection part. Here's my desired
parameters:
Single point of observation, 100' from the tracks. (No trespassing!) Power
and net (or download) access available. Hobby budget. All-season operation
with three-year reliability, maintenance allowed.
I thought this might be fun for some Collexionaires. I've got several
ideas bumping around in my head, but wanted to use some of your cycles
before prejudicing you with my thoughts. So...think about how you might do
this tonight, and what you would do with the data, and how you would share
it.
If you can setup something on each side of the tracks, it should be pretty
easy to set a IR emitter/receiver and see when something breaks the line of
sight. You'd want to set it diagonally across the tracks so openings in the
carts don't set it off again.
If you can't do that, you could try tracking decibels, you'd need some
trial to figure out just how loud a train is, and you might have some false
positives, but we all know trains are loud. You could reduce false
positives by requiring the loudness to be so loud for a minimum span of
time, and prevent it from redetecting the train again by not listening for
x number of minutes after a train was detected.
Just some ideas I'm throwing out, not actual implementations.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:06 PM, David Hempy <scoot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I was sitting on my back porch watching a freight train rumble by,
> reflecting that there seems to be a lot more rail traffic these days. I
> postulated what that might reflect of the economy. Then I wondered if
> there really is more traffic, or if I'm just noticing it more since I'm a
> new daddy? My tykes LOVE the trains. They stop whatever is going on to
> watch them pass before waving "bye-bye choo-choo!"
> Now I'm thinking about a data logging train detector. How would that
> work? Exactly what data would it record? What would the data reveal?
> Would the data be interesting to anyone else?
> Personally, I'm most interested in the detection part. Here's my desired
> parameters:
> Single point of observation, 100' from the tracks. (No trespassing!)
> Power and net (or download) access available. Hobby budget. All-season
> operation with three-year reliability, maintenance allowed.
> I thought this might be fun for some Collexionaires. I've got several
> ideas bumping around in my head, but wanted to use some of your cycles
> before prejudicing you with my thoughts. So...think about how you might do
> this tonight, and what you would do with the data, and how you would share
> it.
> Don't reply yet...discussion starts Tuesday!
> -dave
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We looked into this just recently for one our quarries that loads trains.
All trains in the united states are equipped with 2 RFID cards (yes one for each side of the rail car), made by Transcore. (I think maybe all containers as well)
The cards have something like a 4 digit aphanumeric that represents the owner and then also are followed by 3-4 digit number.
I believe these RFID cards may have some read\write area on them as well.
In the case of one of my quarries we send off an email to CSX with each rail car codes and then a series of routing codes.
These people make a system: http://www.softrail.com/
From: Jerome Hollon Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:15 PM
To: collexion@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Project: Train detector
If you can setup something on each side of the tracks, it should be pretty easy to set a IR emitter/receiver and see when something breaks the line of sight. You'd want to set it diagonally across the tracks so openings in the carts don't set it off again.
If you can't do that, you could try tracking decibels, you'd need some trial to figure out just how loud a train is, and you might have some false positives, but we all know trains are loud. You could reduce false positives by requiring the loudness to be so loud for a minimum span of time, and prevent it from redetecting the train again by not listening for x number of minutes after a train was detected.
Just some ideas I'm throwing out, not actual implementations.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:06 PM, David Hempy <scoot...@gmail.com> wrote:
So I was sitting on my back porch watching a freight train rumble by, reflecting that there seems to be a lot more rail traffic these days. I postulated what that might reflect of the economy. Then I wondered if there really is more traffic, or if I'm just noticing it more since I'm a new daddy? My tykes LOVE the trains. They stop whatever is going on to watch them pass before waving "bye-bye choo-choo!"
Now I'm thinking about a data logging train detector. How would that work? Exactly what data would it record? What would the data reveal? Would the data be interesting to anyone else?
Personally, I'm most interested in the detection part. Here's my desired parameters:
Single point of observation, 100' from the tracks. (No trespassing!) Power and net (or download) access available. Hobby budget. All-season operation with three-year reliability, maintenance allowed.
I thought this might be fun for some Collexionaires. I've got several ideas bumping around in my head, but wanted to use some of your cycles before prejudicing you with my thoughts. So...think about how you might do this tonight, and what you would do with the data, and how you would share it.
Don't reply yet...discussion starts Tuesday!
-dave
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Not much to add here other than I too am interested and seem to have
observed more rail traffic lately. However, I too may be biased as I just
bought a house nearer the tracks. (about two blocks away from Collexion
actually!)
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Chris Harn <har...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> We looked into this just recently for one our quarries that loads
> trains.
> All trains in the united states are equipped with 2 RFID cards (yes one
> for each side of the rail car), made by Transcore. (I think maybe all
> containers as well)
> The cards have something like a 4 digit aphanumeric that represents the
> owner and then also are followed by 3-4 digit number.
> I believe these RFID cards may have some read\write area on them as well.
> In the case of one of my quarries we send off an email to CSX with each
> rail car codes and then a series of routing codes.
> These people make a system: http://www.softrail.com/
> If you can setup something on each side of the tracks, it should be pretty
> easy to set a IR emitter/receiver and see when something breaks the line of
> sight. You'd want to set it diagonally across the tracks so openings in the
> carts don't set it off again.
> If you can't do that, you could try tracking decibels, you'd need some
> trial to figure out just how loud a train is, and you might have some false
> positives, but we all know trains are loud. You could reduce false
> positives by requiring the loudness to be so loud for a minimum span of
> time, and prevent it from redetecting the train again by not listening for
> x number of minutes after a train was detected.
> Just some ideas I'm throwing out, not actual implementations.
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:06 PM, David Hempy <scoot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So I was sitting on my back porch watching a freight train rumble by,
>> reflecting that there seems to be a lot more rail traffic these days. I
>> postulated what that might reflect of the economy. Then I wondered if
>> there really is more traffic, or if I'm just noticing it more since I'm a
>> new daddy? My tykes LOVE the trains. They stop whatever is going on to
>> watch them pass before waving "bye-bye choo-choo!"
>> Now I'm thinking about a data logging train detector. How would that
>> work? Exactly what data would it record? What would the data reveal?
>> Would the data be interesting to anyone else?
>> Personally, I'm most interested in the detection part. Here's my desired
>> parameters:
>> Single point of observation, 100' from the tracks. (No trespassing!)
>> Power and net (or download) access available. Hobby budget. All-season
>> operation with three-year reliability, maintenance allowed.
>> I thought this might be fun for some Collexionaires. I've got several
>> ideas bumping around in my head, but wanted to use some of your cycles
>> before prejudicing you with my thoughts. So...think about how you might do
>> this tonight, and what you would do with the data, and how you would share
>> it.
>> Don't reply yet...discussion starts Tuesday!
>> -dave
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Collexion" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to collexion@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> mailto:collexion%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<collexion%2Bunsubscribe@goo glegroups.com>
>> .
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--- On Mon, 10/15/12, David Hempy <scoot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: David Hempy <scoot...@gmail.com> > Subject: Project: Train detector > To: collexion@googlegroups.com > Date: Monday, October 15, 2012, 2:06 PM
> So I was sitting on my back porch watching a freight train rumble > by, reflecting that there seems to be a lot more rail traffic these > days. I postulated what that might reflect of the economy. Then I > wondered if there really is more traffic, or if I'm just noticing > it more since I'm a new daddy? My tykes LOVE the trains. They > stop whatever is going on to watch them pass before waving "bye-bye > choo-choo!"
I've wondered that about the trains, too, and whether the number reflects the economy. But, realistically, I also wonder whether there are simply a higher number of shorter trains. The trains now seem to be much shorter than they were decades ago, especially back when they'd have helper locomotives in the middle of the trains.
> Now I'm thinking about a data logging train detector. How would > that work? Exactly what data would it record? What would the > data reveal? Would the data be interesting to anyone else?
The time of the train would obviously be the most important thing to log, but I'm afraid that information would be mostly useless without additional information on the length of the train, and, perhaps, the number and type of cars, and, possibly their cargo capacity.
I think most cars are coded now with a type of bar code, such that their number can be easily scanned as they go past. That might make for an interesting database.
However, note that railroad companies are VERY territorial, and won't permit you to mount anything on their right of way. They may not even be happy with you doing the scanning remotely, but I doubt that there's much that they can do about that.
The other concern would be whether any such information could be accessed and used by an terrorists.
> Personally, I'm most interested in the detection part. Here's my > desired parameters: > Single point of observation, 100' from the tracks. (No trespassing!)
Good plan!
> Power and net (or download) access available. Hobby budget. > All-season operation with three-year reliability, maintenance allowed.
Hmm, ok.
> I thought this might be fun for some Collexionaires. I've got > several ideas bumping around in my head, but wanted to use some > of your cycles before prejudicing you with my thoughts. > So...think about how you might do this tonight, and what you would > do with the data, and how you would share it.
Are there any "train watchers" who would like to contribute, or whom you could plunder ideas from?
Time, direction, speed, number of cars, types of cars, cargo capacity of cars, serial number of cars, etc.
Wonder if a seismometer would give you a clue as to the cargo content of the train? Might have to factor in speed, too. Does more ground vibration correspond to more cargo? How would one determine gross versus net weights?
They make scales to read the weights.
The scales spit the data out RS232.
In my data the cars are approximately 25-30 tons empty and 110-130 tons heavy. Rail cars full of rocks in my case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_equipment_identification Automatic equipment identification (AEI) is an electronic recognition system in use with the North American railroad industry. Consisting of passive tags mounted on each side of rolling stock and active trackside readers, AEI uses RF technology to identify railroad equipment while en route.
-----Original Message----- From: Dave
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:41 PM
To: collexion@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Project: Train detector
Wonder if a seismometer would give you a clue as to the cargo content
of the train? Might have to factor in speed, too. Does more ground
vibration correspond to more cargo? How would one determine
gross versus net weights?
Dave
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-----Original Message----- From: Chris Harn
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:16 PM
To: collexion@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Project: Train detector
They make scales to read the weights.
The scales spit the data out RS232.
In my data the cars are approximately 25-30 tons empty and 110-130 tons
heavy. Rail cars full of rocks in my case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_equipment_identification Automatic equipment identification (AEI) is an electronic recognition system
in use with the North American railroad industry. Consisting of passive tags
mounted on each side of rolling stock and active trackside readers, AEI uses
RF technology to identify railroad equipment while en route.
-----Original Message----- From: Dave
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 2:41 PM
To: collexion@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Project: Train detector
Wonder if a seismometer would give you a clue as to the cargo content
of the train? Might have to factor in speed, too. Does more ground
vibration correspond to more cargo? How would one determine
gross versus net weights?
Dave
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> However, note that railroad companies are VERY territorial, and won't > permit you to mount anything on their right of way. They may not even > be happy with you doing the scanning remotely, but I doubt that > there's much that they can do about that. The other concern would be > whether any such information could be accessed and used by an terrorists.
Well, that rules out an inductive proximity sensor (like on roller coasters)... so you're probably looking at ultrasound, or optical, or vibration...
Since I haven't seen it mentioned in the discussion, it might be
simplest to just point a webcam at the problem. I've read about much
deeper automated train inspection with CV systems, so it might* be
easy enough to count cars/duration/etc. You may have to work in the
IR range and/or provide your own light to mitigate light-level issues,
but most digital cameras are more sensitive there anyway.
Searching to see if anyone has done something similar with OpenCV is
rather difficult because "train" has a very different meaning in that
context.
*Based on my limited experience doing automated image processing, it
is _never_ as easy as it should be. The large grain of salt has been
supplied, you know what to do.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Mike Andrews <mandr...@bit0.com> wrote:
> On 10/15/12 2:37 PM, Dave wrote:
>> However, note that railroad companies are VERY territorial, and won't
>> permit you to mount anything on their right of way. They may not even be
>> happy with you doing the scanning remotely, but I doubt that there's much
>> that they can do about that. The other concern would be whether any such
>> information could be accessed and used by an terrorists.
> Well, that rules out an inductive proximity sensor (like on roller
> coasters)... so you're probably looking at ultrasound, or optical, or
> vibration...
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pseb...@uky.edu or pseb...@engr.uky.edu.
I really like the sound level idea for its simplicity. A unidirectional shotgun microphone (even homemade) pointed at the tracks ought to show you big, long waveform spikes when a train goes trundling by. Two microphones aimed a fair bit apart would give you a good idea of the train's speed, which might even let you calculate its length and the number of cars.
My second thought was rangefinding with optics or ultrasound.
On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:06:39 PM UTC-4, David Hempy wrote:
> Now I'm thinking about a data logging train detector. How would that > work? Exactly what data would it record? What would the data reveal? > Would the data be interesting to anyone else?
> Personally, I'm most interested in the detection part. Here's my desired > parameters:
> Single point of observation, 100' from the tracks. (No trespassing!) > Power and net (or download) access available. Hobby budget. All-season > operation with three-year reliability, maintenance allowed.
> My second thought was rangefinding with optics or ultrasound.
I first read 'rangefinding' as 'ragefinding', which I feel is appropriate
as I HATE living near trains (lived on Waller Ave a couple years ago, and
ways maybe 100ft or less from the tracks. It was awful).
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:00 PM, timk <theaterf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I really like the sound level idea for its simplicity. A unidirectional
> shotgun microphone (even homemade) pointed at the tracks ought to show you
> big, long waveform spikes when a train goes trundling by. Two microphones
> aimed a fair bit apart would give you a good idea of the train's speed,
> which might even let you calculate its length and the number of cars.
> My second thought was rangefinding with optics or ultrasound.
> On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:06:39 PM UTC-4, David Hempy wrote:
>> Now I'm thinking about a data logging train detector. How would that
>> work? Exactly what data would it record? What would the data reveal?
>> Would the data be interesting to anyone else?
>> Personally, I'm most interested in the detection part. Here's my desired
>> parameters:
>> Single point of observation, 100' from the tracks. (No trespassing!)
>> Power and net (or download) access available. Hobby budget. All-season
>> operation with three-year reliability, maintenance allowed.
> To post to this group, send email to collexion@googlegroups.com.
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>> My second thought was rangefinding with optics or ultrasound.
> I first read 'rangefinding' as 'ragefinding', which I feel is > appropriate as I HATE living near trains (lived on Waller Ave a > couple years ago, and ways maybe 100ft or less from the tracks. > It was awful).
Could have been worse. At least the diesel-electric engines are fairly
clean. If you'd lived there in the age of coal-fired steam engines,
you'd get to watch a cloud of black soot falling over you every time
one passed.
Hmm, if coal-fired steam engines were to be used today (e.g., when the
world finally runs out of oil), will electrostatic precipitators be
required on the exhaust stacks? Or, will there be any engineers left
who know how to design coal-fired steam engines?
Or, will we finally have nuclear powered trains?
> Carry on with your discussion, gentlemen.
Well, it's sometimes more fun to make the discussion go off-track.
Err, sorry for that pun. :*)
