---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Abhijit A.M. <abhijit.c...@coep.ac.in> Date: Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:18 PM Subject: This Saturday, learn how "apt-get" works! To:
Dear students (Comp Engg and IT):
CoFSUG is organizing a session on "Debian Packaging" on Saturday. All of you are invited for the same.
* What is the session all about? Teaching you how packaging works on Debian/Ubuntu systems. You would be knowing that all you have to do is run commands like "apt-get install vlc" to install any software like "vlc" on Ubuntu/Debian systems. The command automatically fetches the "package" from the web and installs it for you. This sessions explores all the things involved in this process. It is a part of "Debian Utsav" as mentioned on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/DebianUtsav2012
* What will I learn? How do I benefit? Many things! Things which one normally learns only after entering IT industry. - Enter the exiting world of FOSS community! Start becoming a developer (right here in college!) rather than waiting for some company to show mercy on you! - How to create an "installable" package from a given source code (so that it works with apt-get or dpkg commands) - How the FOSS community works - About coding standards - Etiquettes of communicating on web - How Free Software gets developed - how the people of the world work together to do extraordinary feats!
* Contact person: Sana Khan, B.Tech, 8149890037
* Entry fee: NIL !
* Session details: Time, Venue On: 4th Feb 2012, Saturday Time: 10:30 AM onwards. Session 1: Introduction to Packaging concepts Time: 1030 to 1230 Hrs Venue: Seminar Hall Entc Extension Building
* Who will conduct the session? Pravin A, Senior System Administrator from RedHat will be conducting this session for all the students, free of cost!
* What are the pre-requisites For Session-1: None For Session-2: General familiarity with command line on Linux is a must, additional knowledge about git, make, etc. will be very handy. Patience is a must to learn the "process" of free software development.
Abhijit A.M. Faculty, Department of Computer Engineering and I.T., College of Engineering, Shivajinagar, Pune - 411005
> CoFSUG is organizing a session on "Debian Packaging" on Saturday. All of > you are invited for the same.
> * What is the session all about? > Teaching you how packaging works on Debian/Ubuntu systems. You would be > knowing that all you have to do is run commands like "apt-get install vlc" > to install any software like "vlc" on Ubuntu/Debian systems. The command > automatically fetches the "package" from the web and installs it for you. > This sessions explores all the things involved in this process. It is a part > of "Debian Utsav" as mentioned on > http://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/DebianUtsav2012
Someone asked where these list of packages are stored locally, I could not find the location on that. I figured it out now.
You can see all available packages listed at /var/lib/apt/lists/ for each of the repositories. If any concept we discussed is not clear or you have some doubts you can ask here.
Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Praveen A <prav...@gmail.com> wrote: > 2012/2/2 अभिजित Abhijit <abhiji...@gmail.com>: > > CoFSUG is organizing a session on "Debian Packaging" on Saturday. All of > > you are invited for the same.
> > * What is the session all about? > > Teaching you how packaging works on Debian/Ubuntu systems. You would be > > knowing that all you have to do is run commands like "apt-get install > vlc" > > to install any software like "vlc" on Ubuntu/Debian systems. The command > > automatically fetches the "package" from the web and installs it for you. > > This sessions explores all the things involved in this process. It is a > part > > of "Debian Utsav" as mentioned on > > http://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/DebianUtsav2012
> Someone asked where these list of packages are stored locally, I could > not find the location on that. I figured it out now.
> You can see all available packages listed at /var/lib/apt/lists/ for > each of the repositories. If any concept we discussed is not clear or > you have some doubts you can ask here.
> Cheers
> Praveen
--
> പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് > You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your > rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as > they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
> --
hello everybody, Here I'm sharing some questions which i have asked to praveen.
> 1. Do i need to ask to upstream developers to use their source for packaging > or can i use any source which has GPL licenses for packaging?
You don't need anybody's permissions to use, modify or package Free Software. The exact terms might vary based on different licenses (GPL is the most popular one but there are many other Free Software licenses like BSD/MIT, Apache, Mozilla Public license etc), but all Free Software guarantee the following 4 freedoms
The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2). The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
Freedoms 1, 2 and 3 covers packaging. But when users report bugs for packages you maintain, you may need upstream help to fix those, if you cannot fix them yourself.
> 2. If everything works fine & if I create a package which is lintian error > free & ask some developer to make request to send debian main server,then > what is the possibility that it will accept, or is there any criteria for > the package to be accepted or they just accept it?
There is only one condition it has to be Free Software. And Debian has clearly stated the conditions that any software license should satisfy before it is accepted. It is called Debian Free Software Guidelines or DFSG.
We wanted to cover this, but there is only so much we can cover on a single day. Feel free to arrange more sessions, talk to Sana, Shravan or Abhijit sir or even call any of us directly.
> and last one > 3.What is the answer of your question that If same package can be installed > on different versions of windows like xp,vista then why can't in case of > ubuntu? why a pacakge is not compatible with all the versions on ubuntu?
I'm glad you kept on asking this :)
Because every software depends on at least one library or application (if it is written in C, it needs the c library which has standard functions like printf and scanf, if it is a html/javascript you need a browser).
In case of windows, Microsoft guarantees availability of certain minimum libraries in all its versions, so if you are using only that much you can run it in any version. If you need anything extra, most of the time the software includes that extra library too. In case of GNU/Linux there is no such guarantee in case of different distributions because they are made by different projects without agreeing on a common set - that being said, there is an effort going on to create a minimum set of libraries guaranteed, it is called linux standard base or lsb http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/lsb
In case of different versions of Ubuntu there is not much motivation to maintain a minimum standard, instead we provide packages for old version through backports.
Ask more questions if anything is not clear of you have other questions. It would be useful for others so I encourage you to ask it on cofsug list directly.
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CoFSUG" group. > To post to this group, send an email to cofsug@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cofsug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cofsug?hl=en-GB.
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Praveen A <prav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2012/2/2 अभिजित Abhijit <abhiji...@gmail.com>: >> > CoFSUG is organizing a session on "Debian Packaging" on Saturday. All >> of >> > you are invited for the same.
>> > * What is the session all about? >> > Teaching you how packaging works on Debian/Ubuntu systems. You would be >> > knowing that all you have to do is run commands like "apt-get install >> vlc" >> > to install any software like "vlc" on Ubuntu/Debian systems. The command >> > automatically fetches the "package" from the web and installs it for >> you. >> > This sessions explores all the things involved in this process. It is a >> part >> > of "Debian Utsav" as mentioned on >> > http://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/DebianUtsav2012
>> Someone asked where these list of packages are stored locally, I could >> not find the location on that. I figured it out now.
>> You can see all available packages listed at /var/lib/apt/lists/ for >> each of the repositories. If any concept we discussed is not clear or >> you have some doubts you can ask here.
>> Cheers
>> Praveen
> --
>> പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് >> You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your >> rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as >> they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
>> --
> hello everybody, > Here I'm sharing some questions which i have asked to > praveen.
> > 1. Do i need to ask to upstream developers to use their source for > packaging > > or can i use any source which has GPL licenses for packaging?
> You don't need anybody's permissions to use, modify or package Free > Software. The exact terms might vary based on different licenses (GPL > is the most popular one but there are many other Free Software > licenses like BSD/MIT, Apache, Mozilla Public license etc), but all > Free Software guarantee the following 4 freedoms
> The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). > The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it > does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code > is a precondition for this. > The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor > (freedom 2). > The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to > others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a > chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a > precondition for this.
> Freedoms 1, 2 and 3 covers packaging. But when users report bugs for > packages you maintain, you may need upstream help to fix those, if you > cannot fix them yourself.
> > 2. If everything works fine & if I create a package which is lintian > error > > free & ask some developer to make request to send debian main server,then > > what is the possibility that it will accept, or is there any criteria for > > the package to be accepted or they just accept it?
> There is only one condition it has to be Free Software. And Debian has > clearly stated the conditions that any software license should satisfy > before it is accepted. It is called Debian Free Software Guidelines or > DFSG.
> We wanted to cover this, but there is only so much we can cover on a > single day. Feel free to arrange more sessions, talk to Sana, Shravan > or Abhijit sir or even call any of us directly.
> > and last one > > 3.What is the answer of your question that If same package can be > installed > > on different versions of windows like xp,vista then why can't in case of > > ubuntu? why a pacakge is not compatible with all the versions on ubuntu?
> I'm glad you kept on asking this :)
> Because every software depends on at least one library or application > (if it is written in C, it needs the c library which has standard > functions like printf and scanf, if it is a html/javascript you need a > browser).
> In case of windows, Microsoft guarantees availability of certain > minimum libraries in all its versions, so if you are using only that > much you can run it in any version. If you need anything extra, most > of the time the software includes that extra library too. In case of > GNU/Linux there is no such guarantee in case of different > distributions because they are made by different projects without > agreeing on a common set - that being said, there is an effort going > on to create a minimum set of libraries guaranteed, it is called linux > standard base or lsb > http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/lsb
> In case of different versions of Ubuntu there is not much motivation > to maintain a minimum standard, instead we provide packages for old > version through backports.
> Ask more questions if anything is not clear of you have other > questions. It would be useful for others so I encourage you to ask it > on cofsug list directly.
> If anyone wants to add any points, feel free.
> Cheers > Praveen.
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "CoFSUG" group. >> To post to this group, send an email to cofsug@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> cofsug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/cofsug?hl=en-GB.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CoFSUG" group. > To post to this group, send an email to cofsug@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cofsug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cofsug?hl=en-GB.
> In case of different versions of Ubuntu there is not much motivation > to maintain a minimum standard, instead we provide packages for old > version through backports.
One more clarification, as we have the source code to most programs porting it to newer libraries are not a problem in case of GNU/Linux. So when we update some libraries to newer versions, we can easily update all applications depending on it ie, create new packages that will work with newer libraries (we call it transitions, see here all the ongoing transitions in debian here http://release.debian.org/transitions/), which is not the case (impossible) for Windows.
This is the same argument for not guaranteeing ABI compatibility in linux kernel for drivers, when there is an ABI change, all affected drivers are also updated at the same time making ABI guarantee not as important in case of proprietary OSes like Windows. But it does affect drivers maintained outside of the mainline kernel, so our effort is to have all drivers in mainline. So we do reverse engineer drivers for hardware which currently does not have (or incomplete features) a driver in mainline kernel for example NVIDIA graphics card driver (they provide only a proprietary driver and they have to update it themselves for new kernel releases).
If any of you are interested in linux device driver programming this is a very important project for the Free Software community. Reply here or talk to me or Abhijit sir if you are interested. See http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/ for more details about this project.
Ask more questions if it is not clear. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 15:21, Praveen A <prav...@gmail.com> wrote: > 2012/2/7 prashant gonarkar <prashantgonar...@gmail.com>: >> In case of different versions of Ubuntu there is not much motivation >> to maintain a minimum standard, instead we provide packages for old >> version through backports.
> One more clarification, as we have the source code to most programs > porting it to newer libraries are not a problem in case of GNU/Linux. > So when we update some libraries to newer versions, we can easily > update all applications depending on it ie, create new packages that > will work with newer libraries (we call it transitions, see here all > the ongoing transitions in debian here > http://release.debian.org/transitions/), which is not the case > (impossible) for Windows.
This then the release masters or ftp-masters decide when the transitions are to be affected. For instance as can be seen the KDE SC 4.7 (I am sure the KDE fanboys would be a little disappointed) is still blocked by few other transitions. See Ariel Garcia's mail in the same bug-report which talks of the same thing. It also tells/shares that perhaps more hands/eyes are needed for ftp-master and release teams as well. When you have 35k+ packages at any point of time (i386/amd64 single architecture) then you have a big job at your end keeping track of thing.
Debian does use something called autobuilders to help it out as well (don't remember if I shared this before or not, oh well!)
This is the access that Praveen will get once he becomes a DD.
I have to say though that even though we have 35k+ we haven't scratched the surface as yet, as FOSS projects have been mushrooming all the time and if one looks at wnpp you would see thousands of packages in the various stages of ITP and RFP (remember the WNPP thing muneeb shared that day). This too when some developer remove ITP's or/and RFP's if nothing happens after a significant time. We just need more hands.
> This is the same argument for not guaranteeing ABI compatibility in > linux kernel for drivers, when there is an ABI change, all affected > drivers are also updated at the same time making ABI guarantee not as > important in case of proprietary OSes like Windows. But it does affect > drivers maintained outside of the mainline kernel, so our effort is to > have all drivers in mainline. So we do reverse engineer drivers for > hardware which currently does not have (or incomplete features) a > driver in mainline kernel for example NVIDIA graphics card driver > (they provide only a proprietary driver and they have to update it > themselves for new kernel releases).
> If any of you are interested in linux device driver programming this > is a very important project for the Free Software community. Reply > here or talk to me or Abhijit sir if you are interested. See > http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/ for more details about this > project.
> Ask more questions if it is not clear.
This again is an important project if people want to get their hands dirty. From what I have been seeing there are lots of cheap Taiwanese/chinese hardware with virtually no GNU/Linux support. (think printers,routers,networking chips et al)
Anyways, hope Praveen has given enough ideas, if some are interested please interact with him or Abhijit Sir. They can provide good guidance on the above.
> -- > പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് > You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your > rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as > they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CoFSUG" group. > To post to this group, send an email to cofsug@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cofsug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cofsug?hl=en-GB.
