Not arguing for or against, but we did do auditorium in portland, if I recall correctly. I think DLF still usually does auditorium. Only feasible if you have separate seating for food. I actually like mixing it up at meals with separate seating. Wasn't a huge fan of this year's where you plopped for breakfast is where you're sitting all day.
From: Beanworks <beanwo...@gmail.com> Sent: February 23, 2012 2/23/12 To: code4libcon@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Conference Tracks
Gotta agree with Peter on the degree of discomfort in the auditorium style seating. It would not be mild discomfort. I envision riots before the first keynote.
+1 for other options
Carol
Wafted through cyberspace from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:57 AM, Francis Kayiwa <francis.kay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Peter Murray <peter.mur...@lyrasis.org> wrote: >> On Feb 23, 2012, at 5:50 AM, Francis Kayiwa wrote: >>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Cary Gordon <higherm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Audiorium style would not be very popular. Three days of it, even less so.
>>> We can have 300 seated comfortably with ~200 mad they couldn't get >>> into the conference. Or we can have 499 (I personally wouldn't mind 3 >>> days auditorium style) uncomfortable. We can't have both.
>> Again, respectfully, you need to rethink your plans. Almost everyone has a computing device, some as large as 17" notebooks and some as small as tablets with keyboards. Now visualize 500 people balancing devices on their laps as colleagues move in and out of rows with cups of coffee and glasses of water. Multiply by six hours, then by three days.
> Sorry but what of it? Perhaps my constitution is markedly different > from others but when I weigh up angry people left out the door v/s > mild discomfort (even for 3 days) I take discomfort while still ceding > your point.
>> I think you are setting yourself up for major logistical problems if you continue on this path.
> There *IS* a reason I am asking in February... nothing is set. We > don't want to sign any documents until we have a reasonably PoR (20% > upper limit is always my target)
>> But, it is still early, so there is time to adjust. A couple of suggestions come to mind: 1) find another venue; 2) try transmitting a couple video feeds (one of speaker, one of slides) to a secondary location in the same building; 3) make 2013 the year that Code4Lib tries a distributed model (cooperate with other sites to do 2-way simulcast of talks, alternating morning to afternoon between sites).
> The devil here is in the details which we are glad to take on.
> Cheers, > ./fxk
> -- > Past hissy-fits are not a predictor of future hissy-fits --Nick Holland
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> > Again, respectfully, you need to rethink your plans. Almost everyone > has a computing device, some as large as 17" notebooks and some as small as > tablets with keyboards. Now visualize 500 people balancing devices on > their laps as colleagues move in and out of rows with cups of coffee and > glasses of water. Multiply by six hours, then by three days.
> Sorry but what of it? Perhaps my constitution is markedly different > from others but when I weigh up angry people left out the door v/s > mild discomfort (even for 3 days) I take discomfort while still ceding > your point.
It's not just about comfort. The use of connected devices (mainly laptops) is considered rather central to the group and the event, and to the extent the seating (or wifi or power) cannot accommodate it, the event would be diminished. I remember some sessions in Portland this was a problem.
If you are choosing between a smaller event w/ happy attendees and a larger one with unhappy attendees, take the small one. The whole exercise is a failure if it doesn't work for *whatever* number of people actually attend. The people who are arguing for larger attendance are arguing based on the success of the smaller events or their perception of what the event would be if they had attended. Those aren't grounds for not attending in the future. That kind of "anger" is good. Replacing concrete or imagined positive experience with an actual negative experience will produce a different kind of anger. The bad kind.
Also, we increase all other logistical and financial liabilities as we increase attendance, including those that code4lib has not yet previously encountered (though the other conference experience in this group is notable).
Maybe once the hosts finalize the seating they could share it with the list.
If I know in advance that auditorium-style or round-table seating has been chosen I might decide not to (try to) register, potentially freeing up a spot for someone else.
Yes, I do feel that strongly about the seat I'll be sitting in for 6 hours straight. I'm sure it sounds silly to some people, but a combination of RSIs and old age force me to be more and more persnickety about my physical environment.
+1 for tables, power, a place for a glass of water. I loathe laptop-on-lap when i can't put my feet up. And i need more elbow room when i do laptop on lap. And it slides off. And I always hope for empty chairs next to me.
I would keep it small if we can't do tables with a larger group. We can announce plans to increase the size for 2013, and keep it small for 2012, if necessary.
On Feb 23, 2012, at 8:17 AM, Mark A. Matienzo wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Beanworks <beanwo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Gotta agree with Peter on the degree of discomfort in the auditorium style seating. It would not be mild discomfort. I envision riots before the first keynote.
>> +1 for other options
> +1 for complementary (spam filter word deleted)
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On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Joe Atzberger <ohioc...@gmail.com> wrote: > If you are choosing between a smaller event w/ happy attendees and a larger > one with unhappy attendees, take the small one. The whole exercise is a > failure if it doesn't work for *whatever* number of people actually attend. > The people who are arguing for larger attendance are arguing based on the > success of the smaller events or their perception of what the event would be > if they had attended. Those aren't grounds for not attending in the future. > That kind of "anger" is good. Replacing concrete or imagined positive > experience with an actual negative experience will produce a different kind > of anger. The bad kind.
I agree with Joe here. While not every library technologist in the world had a seat at this year's code4lib, most people who really wanted to go were able to, and those who followed along at home seemed to enjoy it as well. I think we'll have an easier time next year if we evolve the model by adding 50 to the cap rather than double the attendance. If we choose exponential growth over linear we may have a Malthusian nightmare on our hands.
> Yes, I do feel that strongly about the seat I'll be sitting in for 6 > hours straight. I'm sure it sounds silly to some people, but a > combination of RSIs and old age force me to be more and more > persnickety about my physical environment.
Not silly at all. I bet a bunch of us have RSI's, hazard of the profession we're in. I hadn't thought of that, but that's a good point, I personally really can't be using a laptop held on my lap for more than a very brief period of time, without re-injuring myself.
On the other hand, I've often thought that I personally should not be using my laptop at all for most of the time I'm in an audience at a conference, and should be paying attention to the speaker instead, so, you know.
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Jonathan Rochkind <rochk...@jhu.edu> wrote: > On the other hand, I've often thought that I personally should not be using > my laptop at all for most of the time I'm in an audience at a conference, > and should be paying attention to the speaker instead, so, you know.
I, too, regularly struggle with that. My laptop can be seductively distracting. But I also can't resist visiting the URLs that people put up on the screen. Maybe my real problem is impulse control. :-D
Because of the round tables this year I ended up facing away from the table some of the time, and took lots of notes on paper, which was a refreshing change - a notebook on my lap aggravates slightly different RSIs than a laptop.
> I would keep it small if we can't do tables with a larger group. We can announce plans to increase the size for 2013, and keep it small for 2012, if necessary.
For that matter, it sounds like the room they are contemplating can hold 300 with tables, which is still 20% bigger than the 250 last year.
But yeah, everybody's gonna have a different opinion about these trade-offs. The Chicago hosts will do something.
I remain _very_ curious what dchud's opinion is, as the champion of the 'conf must be much larger' position, and hope someone can get him to chime in.
I don't think there's neccesarily a consensus that the conf must be larger, even if it means sacrificing something (multi-track, no tables, whatever) but I think it is probably a popular position. Maybe we're split down the middle, I dunno. If we wanted to get a sense of the aggregated community opinion, easy enough to make a surveymonkey or something. (again not suggesting the conf hosts should be bound by anything inferred from such a poll, they should do what they think best, as far as this kind of stuff).
[And I don't know about "announcing plans to make it bigger for 2013." It all just comes down to what the conf hosts can do. If we had announced plans to make it bigger for 2012, we'd STILL have only chicago volunteering to host it, and they'd still be able to do what they can do.]
> I agree with Joe here. While not every library technologist in the > world had a seat at this year's code4lib, most people who really > wanted to go were able to, and those who followed along at home seemed > to enjoy it as well. I think we'll have an easier time next year if we > evolve the model by adding 50 to the cap rather than double the > attendance. If we choose exponential growth over linear we may have a > Malthusian nightmare on our hands.
FWIW, here are some off-the-cuff conference organizing stats, not specific to c4l.
~10 percent of registered attendees never pick up their badges (at paid conferences).
For a three day conference, less than 70 percent of the attendees attend events on the third day and the number decreases as the day goes on. The food counts decline every day, as well.
Cary
On Feb 23, 2012, at 12:29 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
> On 2/23/2012 2:44 PM, Naomi Dushay wrote: >> I would keep it small if we can't do tables with a larger group. We can announce plans to increase the size for 2013, and keep it small for 2012, if necessary.
> For that matter, it sounds like the room they are contemplating can hold 300 with tables, which is still 20% bigger than the 250 last year.
> But yeah, everybody's gonna have a different opinion about these trade-offs. The Chicago hosts will do something.
> I remain _very_ curious what dchud's opinion is, as the champion of the 'conf must be much larger' position, and hope someone can get him to chime in.
> I don't think there's neccesarily a consensus that the conf must be larger, even if it means sacrificing something (multi-track, no tables, whatever) but I think it is probably a popular position. Maybe we're split down the middle, I dunno. If we wanted to get a sense of the aggregated community opinion, easy enough to make a surveymonkey or something. (again not suggesting the conf hosts should be bound by anything inferred from such a poll, they should do what they think best, as far as this kind of stuff).
> [And I don't know about "announcing plans to make it bigger for 2013." It all just comes down to what the conf hosts can do. If we had announced plans to make it bigger for 2012, we'd STILL have only chicago volunteering to host it, and they'd still be able to do what they can do.]
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+1 for tables, power, a place for a glass of water. I loathe laptop-on-lap when i can't put my feet up. And i need more elbow room when i do laptop on lap. And it slides off. And I always hope for empty chairs next to me.
I would keep it small if we can't do tables with a larger group. We can announce plans to increase the size for 2013, and keep it small for 2012, if necessary.
On Feb 23, 2012, at 8:17 AM, Mark A. Matienzo wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Beanworks <beanwo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Gotta agree with Peter on the degree of discomfort in the auditorium style seating. It would not be mild discomfort. I envision riots before the first keynote.
>> +1 for other options
> +1 for complementary Xanax
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> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Beanworks <beanwo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Gotta agree with Peter on the degree of discomfort in the auditorium style seating. It would not be mild discomfort. I envision riots before the first keynote.
>> +1 for other options
> +1 for complementary Xanax
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On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Esmé Cowles <escow...@ucsd.edu> wrote: > Would it be possible to do a hybrid setup (half classroom and half auditorium) netting > around 400 seats? In theory, this could let those who really wanted tables to have > them, but still cram in as many people as possible. Though I worry that it would > mostly result in people camping out at the tables to keep their spaces.
I like this idea. Here's a bold thought: Why not tier the pricing based on this. Registration with a spot at one of the tables costs an extra $70. Those who want their creature comforts can buy them. The rest of us can sit in the back, so long as we have power back there... Dang conference sells out like a rock concert anyway; why not treat it like one...
> Ideally, we should find a larger venue that can accommodate 500 people at tables. But if the choice is 500 in chairs or 300 at tables, I think 500 in chairs would be better.
> "Companies need to realize their markets are often laughing. At them." > -- http://www.cluetrain.org/
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On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Cary Gordon <higherm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Possibly because it is about 12 times as long.
> But hey, maybe I could buy all the tickets and scalp them! Then it would really be like a rock concert. Front row - $2k.
> On Feb 24, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Corey Harper wrote:
>> Dang conference sells out like a rock concert anyway; why not treat it >> like one...
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tania.fersenh...@gmail.com> wrote: > But then we'll need the travelling road show that goes along with it. > Hemp clothing vendors, wheatgrass smoothies, tie-dye your own shirt > stalls....
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Kevin S. Clarke <kscla...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Depends on the band... three day shows are not uncommon for some ;-)
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Joe Atzberger <ohioc...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dude, just book side-by-side w/ FaerieCon again.
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Tania Fersenheim < > tania.fersenh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> But then we'll need the travelling road show that goes along with it. >> Hemp clothing vendors, wheatgrass smoothies, tie-dye your own shirt >> stalls....
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Kevin S. Clarke <kscla...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > Depends on the band... three day shows are not uncommon for some ;-)
>> > Kevin
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------------------------------------------------------------ Jeremy Frumkin Assistant Dean / Chief Technology Strategist University of Arizona Libraries
+1 520.626.7296 frumk...@u.library.arizona.edu<mailto:frumk...@u.library.arizona.edu> ------------------------------------------------------------ "It ain't easy being green"
On 2/24/12 2:00 PM, "Declan Fleming" <dec...@declan.net<mailto:dec...@declan.net>> wrote:
I wanna be a c4l groupie.
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Joe Atzberger <ohioc...@gmail.com<mailto:ohioc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dude, just book side-by-side w/ FaerieCon again.
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Tania Fersenheim <tania.fersenh...@gmail.com<mailto:tania.fersenh...@gmail.com>> wrote: But then we'll need the travelling road show that goes along with it. Hemp clothing vendors, wheatgrass smoothies, tie-dye your own shirt stalls....
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Kevin S. Clarke <kscla...@gmail.com<mailto:kscla...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Depends on the band... three day shows are not uncommon for some ;-)
> Kevin
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I like the really large, single track approach, where really large can approach 500 people, but 400 might be a nicer step.
As for accommodations... we had complaints at Seattle about the seats, even with all the space for laptops, water, etc. so someone is always unhappy. I could live with auditorium seating, mainly because no one wants to sit that close to me, so I get a little elbow room. I'd need a fold up surface and power for my laptop tho. I really like the mixed seating ideas - some auditorium, some tables. I'd probably migrate around more with this setting.
Maybe we should also have bleachers or standing room only for people like Giarlo.
I don't like the "pay for premium seats" idea.
D
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Frumkin, Jeremy <
frumk...@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote: > The correct term is 'codehead'
> :-)
> -- jaf
> ------------------------------------------------------------ > Jeremy Frumkin > Assistant Dean / Chief Technology Strategist > University of Arizona Libraries
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Joe Atzberger <ohioc...@gmail.com > <mailto:ohioc...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Dude, just book side-by-side w/ FaerieCon again.
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Tania Fersenheim < > tania.fersenh...@gmail.com<mailto:tania.fersenh...@gmail.com>> wrote: > But then we'll need the travelling road show that goes along with it. > Hemp clothing vendors, wheatgrass smoothies, tie-dye your own shirt > stalls....
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Kevin S. Clarke <kscla...@gmail.com > <mailto:kscla...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Depends on the band... three day shows are not uncommon for some ;-)
> > Kevin
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Classroom set up in both Illinois A+B, podium/stage on the West wall of A. (300 ppl) Classroom set up in Illinois C, with room screen and sound synced (locally remote attendance?) (66 ppl) Classroom set up in one of the Dearborn room B (48 ppl) OR both Dearborn rooms (customizable) - overflow set up like Illinois C
FWIW, 400 might be a more realistic number, since Chicago weather tends to scare those who don't like cold weather away.
On Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:27:49 PM UTC-6, Francis Kayiwa wrote:
> I realize it is still early days but I promised to outsource this sort > of thing to the community at large and I like to keep my promises. I > thought this would be something we would mull over much later but > theres logistics to contend with. My unscientific survey of people who > were in Seattle is that we need to have multiple tracks.
> I can only use the only other similar conference I've attended as a > model. The tracks at PyCon were divided into
> novice; intermediate; expert
> So we would all assemble in the AM for a plenary session for the entire > group
> Divide up into the aforementioned tracks
> Meet again for an afternoon plenary
> Wash, rinse, repeat.
> I am advocating this as a model for code4lib 2013 but would be happy > to be told early on that I got it all wrong in order to tell our local > staff the size and number of rooms we would need.
> Cheers, > ./fxk
> -- > All bridge hands are equally likely, but some are more equally likely > than others. > -- Alan Truscott
On Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:27:49 PM UTC-6, Francis Kayiwa wrote:
> I realize it is still early days but I promised to outsource this sort > of thing to the community at large and I like to keep my promises. I > thought this would be something we would mull over much later but > theres logistics to contend with. My unscientific survey of people who > were in Seattle is that we need to have multiple tracks.
> I can only use the only other similar conference I've attended as a > model. The tracks at PyCon were divided into
> novice; intermediate; expert
> So we would all assemble in the AM for a plenary session for the entire > group
> Divide up into the aforementioned tracks
> Meet again for an afternoon plenary
> Wash, rinse, repeat.
> I am advocating this as a model for code4lib 2013 but would be happy > to be told early on that I got it all wrong in order to tell our local > staff the size and number of rooms we would need.
> Cheers, > ./fxk
> -- > All bridge hands are equally likely, but some are more equally likely > than others. > -- Alan Truscott
On Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:27:49 PM UTC-6, Francis Kayiwa wrote:
> I realize it is still early days but I promised to outsource this sort > of thing to the community at large and I like to keep my promises. I > thought this would be something we would mull over much later but > theres logistics to contend with. My unscientific survey of people who > were in Seattle is that we need to have multiple tracks.
> I can only use the only other similar conference I've attended as a > model. The tracks at PyCon were divided into
> novice; intermediate; expert
> So we would all assemble in the AM for a plenary session for the entire > group
> Divide up into the aforementioned tracks
> Meet again for an afternoon plenary
> Wash, rinse, repeat.
> I am advocating this as a model for code4lib 2013 but would be happy > to be told early on that I got it all wrong in order to tell our local > staff the size and number of rooms we would need.
> Cheers, > ./fxk
> -- > All bridge hands are equally likely, but some are more equally likely > than others. > -- Alan Truscott
> I like this idea. Here's a bold thought: Why not tier the pricing > based on this. Registration with a spot at one of the tables costs an > extra $70. Those who want their creature comforts can buy them. The > rest of us can sit in the back, so long as we have power back there... > Dang conference sells out like a rock concert anyway; why not treat it > like one...
Seperate "tiers" of participants really rubs me the wrong way.
I like tables, but I hate round tables. The front half of every table either has to turn their chairs around to see the speaker/slides. or make use of the table and keep their backs to the presentations.
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Declan Fleming <dec...@declan.net> wrote: > To be serious for a moment:
> I like the really large, single track approach, where really large can > approach 500 people, but 400 might be a nicer step.
> As for accommodations... we had complaints at Seattle about the seats, > even with all the space for laptops, water, etc. so someone is always > unhappy. I could live with auditorium seating, mainly because no one wants > to sit that close to me, so I get a little elbow room. I'd need a fold up > surface and power for my laptop tho. I really like the mixed seating ideas > - some auditorium, some tables. I'd probably migrate around more with this > setting.
> Maybe we should also have bleachers or standing room only for people like > Giarlo.
> I don't like the "pay for premium seats" idea.
> D
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Frumkin, Jeremy < > frumk...@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>> The correct term is 'codehead'
>> :-)
>> -- jaf
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Jeremy Frumkin >> Assistant Dean / Chief Technology Strategist >> University of Arizona Libraries
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Joe Atzberger <ohioc...@gmail.com >> <mailto:ohioc...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Dude, just book side-by-side w/ FaerieCon again.
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Tania Fersenheim < >> tania.fersenh...@gmail.com<mailto:tania.fersenh...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> But then we'll need the travelling road show that goes along with it. >> Hemp clothing vendors, wheatgrass smoothies, tie-dye your own shirt >> stalls....
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Kevin S. Clarke <kscla...@gmail.com >> <mailto:kscla...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > Depends on the band... three day shows are not uncommon for some ;-)
>> > Kevin
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> I like tables, but I hate round tables. The front half of every table > either has to turn their chairs around to see the speaker/slides. or make > use of the table and keep their backs to the presentations.
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Declan Fleming <dec...@declan.net> wrote:
>> To be serious for a moment:
>> I like the really large, single track approach, where really large can >> approach 500 people, but 400 might be a nicer step.
>> As for accommodations... we had complaints at Seattle about the seats, >> even with all the space for laptops, water, etc. so someone is always >> unhappy. I could live with auditorium seating, mainly because no one wants >> to sit that close to me, so I get a little elbow room. I'd need a fold up >> surface and power for my laptop tho. I really like the mixed seating ideas >> - some auditorium, some tables. I'd probably migrate around more with this >> setting.
>> Maybe we should also have bleachers or standing room only for people like >> Giarlo.
>> I don't like the "pay for premium seats" idea.
>> D
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Frumkin, Jeremy < >> frumk...@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>> The correct term is 'codehead'
>>> :-)
>>> -- jaf
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Jeremy Frumkin >>> Assistant Dean / Chief Technology Strategist >>> University of Arizona Libraries
>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Joe Atzberger <ohioc...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:ohioc...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> Dude, just book side-by-side w/ FaerieCon again.
>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Tania Fersenheim < >>> tania.fersenh...@gmail.com<mailto:tania.fersenh...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> But then we'll need the travelling road show that goes along with it. >>> Hemp clothing vendors, wheatgrass smoothies, tie-dye your own shirt >>> stalls....
>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Kevin S. Clarke <kscla...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:kscla...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > Depends on the band... three day shows are not uncommon for some ;-)
>>> > Kevin
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