Re: coconut - 3 new messages in 3 topics - digest

[griffinia]

I am in the process of finishing up a paper that uses sequences of 7 nuclear WRKY transciption factor loci across over 70 taxa of Cocoseae subtribe Attaleinae - we presented the initial data at the IV International Conference on the Comparative Biology of the Monocotyledons in Copenhagen in August.  The combined phylogenetic analysis places Cocos as sister to a monophyleteic Syagrus with 81% bootstrap support.  I will post again when the paper has been accepted and is in press.  Parajubaea forms a clade with Allagoptera and Polyandrococos (but is sister to Allagoptera), a relationship for which one of my co-authors, Larry Noblick, has very good anatomical support.

Happy New Year, all.

Alan Meerow

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 3:21 AM, coconut group <nor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Coconut
http://groups.google.com/group/coconut?hl=en

coc...@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* In-depth coconut study - 1 messages, 1 author
 http://groups.google.com/group/coconut/t/70f7a9cd404ca3a8?hl=en
* Evolutionary history of Cocos etc - 1 messages, 1 author
 http://groups.google.com/group/coconut/t/a3fbc83dd3677d86?hl=en
* virgin oil - 1 messages, 1 author
 http://groups.google.com/group/coconut/t/007ff7337862cd69?hl=en

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TOPIC: In-depth coconut study
http://groups.google.com/group/coconut/t/70f7a9cd404ca3a8?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 1:39 am
From: Hugh


Helen

How are you carrying out an in-depth study on Coconuts? Is ACIAR or
the ANU or an international agency funding you to travel around the
world? Are you posting questionnaires by email and snail mail to
countries you cannot travel to? Or is "in-depth" an abbreviation for
"internet-depth"? Although it is my strongly held belief that coconut
R&D must make greater use of the world-wide-web, first hand experience
is always necessary for a good understanding of survey data.

You say that most of what you have been told and have read looks
rather gloomy for the coconut industry. Well you are not the first to
think so. Forty years ago, in 1969, another in-depth study on the
coconut industry, commissioned by the United Nations, thought that
"The danger of substitution of products or of the source of supply has
very much darkened the future of the coconut economy of Asia". Since
then the oil palm has displaced coconut as a source of vegetable oil
and genetically modified annual crops can now produce high lauric oils
outside the tropics. Yet the coconut palm still sustains the lives of
millions of small farmers as well as those engaged in industries
developed around the production, processing and marketing of coconut
products.

Also in 1969, the Asian and Pacific Coconut Community (APCC) was
established to promote, coordinate and harmonize all activities of the
coconut industry. Other agencies have come and gone since then but the
APCC, like the coconut palm, still keeps going.

Helen, you also say you would like the most up-to-date information on
Lethal Yellowing, and to know if a solution to this epidemic has been
found. The first is easy because there was an international LY
workshop in Accra, Ghana this year and there is an internet group, the
Centre for Information on Coconut Lethal Yellowing (CICLY) that is
intended to act as a clearing house for information about lethal
yellowing and similar diseases of coconuts and other palms.  Anyone
can visit the CICLY web site.

The second part of the answer is less easy, and may be less
acceptable . . .  either stop growing coconuts in an LY area, or move
to an LY-free area . . . or learn to live with the disease.

As one example, the first serious LY epidemic, in Baracoa, Cuba from
1905 to 1910  decimated production  to such an extent that
entrepreneurs from the USA chose to plant and process coconuts in the
Philippines  rather than import copra from closer sources in Latin-
America and the Caribbean. Coming just as the demand for coconut oil
was stimulated by the 1914-18 war (CNO is a raw material for candles,
soap, margarine and high explosives), this made the Philippines the
dominant coconut producing country, an indirect and hitherto
unrecognized effect of LY.

Another example is the pattern of an uncontrollable epidemic,
introduction of exotic germplasm and subsequent exposure of survivors
to further epidemic cycles. Now a recent experience in Jamaica and
elsewhere, it had already occurred in Cuba sixty-five years ago! At
that time it was postulated that an insect vector was involved and
observed that resistance breeding seemed the only recourse.

But just planting resistant varieties is not enough. With the benefit
of hindsight the early 1980s policy decisions taken to resuscitate the
ailing banana industry in Jamaica changed the traditional mixed
cropping system which did not give unblemished fruit quality demanded
of that important export crop and bananas were no longer planted
between coconut palms. A barrier of an immune intercrop, such as
bananas, is a possible contributing factor protecting both susceptible
and resistant coconut varieties from LY.

The presence of Royal palms (Roystonia spp) demonstrates this, both
amongst the ordinary tall coconuts in the Dominican Republic (where LY
has remained stationary for decades) and also in Cuba, where the
'Dorado Cubano' (a selection from progenies of the Cuban 'Criollo' and
the introduced 'Indio' coconuts) is reported to perform well in mixed
plantings where LY is present.

Nevertheless, the first outbreak of LY is very damaging to the local
community who depend on coconuts for sustenance and income. So, in
addition to taking precautions – interplanting resistant coconut
varieties with suitable intercrops – there also needs to be an
organized marketing response  – for the immediate recovery of edible
palm heart following the undelayed removal of any coconut palm with
suspicious symptoms, for , for harvesting immature (drinking) nuts
instead of mature (copra) nuts, for extracting timber from the palm
trunk, etc.

Gloom, if there is any, should be reserved for those who know that LY
may arrive at any time but have not prepared, in advance, to meet it
when it does come.

Bes wishes

Hugh


> 22/12/2008 19:49        from helen...@adam.com.au
> My name is Helen Lee I live in Australia. I am doing an in-depth study
> on Coconuts and would like to know the most up-to-date info on Lethal
> Yellows and if a solution to this epidemic has been found. Most of
> what I have been told and have read looks rather gloomy for the
> coconut industry.


On 23 Dec, 17:53, Hugh <hugh.harr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 22/12/2008 19:49        from helen...@adam.com.au
> My name is Helen Lee I live in Australia. I am doing an in-depth study
> on Coconuts and would like to know the most up-to-date info on Lethal
> Yellows and if a solution to this epidemic has been found. Most of
> what I have been told and have read looks rather gloomy for the
> coconut industry.





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Evolutionary history of Cocos etc
http://groups.google.com/group/coconut/t/a3fbc83dd3677d86?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 1:33 pm
From: "Hugh Harries"


Charles

Here is a taster from Genera Palmarum 2

BIOGEOGRAPHY
Historical biogeography of palms
Cocoseae Tribe (p. 116-117)

> Cocoseae has long been of biogeographic interest, first because of
> uncertainty surrounding the origin of the coconut and, second, on account of
> the numerous cocosoid fossils that have been found within and beyond the
> tribe's modern natural range. Fossil evidence indicates that the tribe was
> present in South America, India and New Zealand during the Tertiary (Gunn
> 2004). Today, the Cocoseae is the most widespread palm tribe in the
> Americas; the majority of cocosoid genera and species occur there and their
> diverse ecological adaptations allow them to occupy both seasonal and
> ever-wet habitats. However, the tribe is also represented in the Old World
> by two genera in Africa and two in Madagascar. The coconut, Cocos nucifera,
> has a pantropical distribution, which is due to movement by man and water
> dispersal. Prevailing opinion suggests that it originated in the western
> Pacific (Harries 1978), but many other locations have been suggested (Gunn
> 2004). In addition, subfossil remains indicate that a genus of cocosoids,
> Paschalococos, a member of the Attaleinae closely allied to Jubaea, was
> present on Easter Island approximately 800 years ago (Dransfield et al.
> 1984) . . .
>

So far I cannot disagree

. . . It is reasonable to suggest that the group is most likely to have
> originated in the Americas in the broader sense and that at least three
> dispersals have occurred: 1) to Africa in Elaeidinae, 2) to Madagascar,
> Africa and possibly beyond early in the history of the Attaleinae, and 3) to
> Easter Island. This pattern cannot, as has been previously suggested (Uhl &
> Dransfield 1987, Hahn 2002a), be linked to Gondwanan break-up. The coconut
> almost certainly has a complex history of natural dispersal, now clouded by
> human intervention. We may never know with certainty where the coconut
> evolved and precisely how it achieved its modern extent.
>

But I am treating those last three sentences as a personal challenge - watch
my smoke!

Happy New Year

Hugh

2008/12/25 Charles R. Clement <charlesr...@yahoo.com.br>

 Hugh and Alain,
>
> Remember Bee Gunn's THE PHYLOGENY OF THE COCOEAE (ARECACEAE) WITH EMPHASIS
> ON COCOS NUCIFERA. ANN. MISSOURI BOT. GARD. 91: 505–522. 2004.
>
> ABSTRACT: The tribe Cocoeae contains economically important palms including
> Cocos nucifera, Elaeis guineensis, Attalea speciosa, and Bactris gasipaes.
> This study, based on the nuclear prk gene sequence, addresses the monophyly
> of the subtribes of Cocoeae, the closest relatives of Cocos nucifera, and
> biogeographical implications of its distribution. The Cocoeae are divided
> into the spiny and non-spiny taxa. Molecular data alone suggest that Cocos
> nucifera did not originate in the western Pacific; it may be the only extant
> member of its lineage. Several Cocoeae fossils from New Zealand and India
> were used as calibration points to estimate times of divergence of clades. A
> hypothesis for the origin of the Cocos clade based on the phylogeny was
> postulated. It is hypothesized that Cocoeae originated from South America,
> diversified and radiated eastward toward Africa, Madagascar, and India, and
> southward to Australia and New Zealand via the Antarctic corridor. The
> estimated divergence dates were corroborated with major tectonic events.
>
> I don't yet know how this agrees with Genera Palmarum 2 (my copy is still
> in the Christmas mail), as Gunn used only one gene and I believe that
> Asmussen et al. used several segments.
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
>
> Best regards,
> Charles R. Clement
>
>  Alain
>> As a start you should read the appropriate sections in the recently
>> published second edition of Genera Palmarum (Dransfield, J., Uhl, N.W.,
>> Asmussen, C.B., Baker, W.J., Harley, M.M. and Lewis, C.E. (2008) Genera
>> Palmarum. Second edition. Kew Publishing).
>> Although I have reservations about the relationship of Cocos nucifera with
>> any South American genera (South  Africa or Madagascar connections seem
>>  more likely to me) perhaps you work will throw light upon the question.
>> But how will you propagate the first GM generation? Coconut tissues are
>> remarkably recalcitrant to in vitro culture techniques.
>> Best wishes
>> Hugh
>> === =
>> 23/12/2008 18:11        from <mailto:eightp...@gmail.com>
>> eightp...@gmail.com
>> alain huitdeniers Trinidad, Guyana, Eastern Venezuela. Need to acquire a
>> reasonably comprehensive picture of the evolutionary history of Cocos,
>> Syagrus, etc... including the possible history of the genome(s) of group
>> with a view to producing GMOs by gene tranfer at the level of large
>> chromosomal fractions.
>>
>
>





==============================================================================
TOPIC: virgin oil
http://groups.google.com/group/coconut/t/007ff7337862cd69?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 5:49 pm
From: "Vinay Chand"


I was asked in August by P. K. Thampan of the technologies available for separation of oil from cream. I must apologise for the time it has taken to come back to the issue but I realised that I personally had not paid detailed attention recently to the issue relying on the fact that if a turn key plant is secured from a source like Alfa Laval, there is a separator and then a clarifier and no need to question anything. On reading the request from my friend Thampan, I went back to my source material.

The best or most detailed discussion is found in Robert Hagenmaier's 'Coconut Aqueous Processing', still the definitive text in my opinion although possibly the last word was by Al Hansvold of Bradley Fairchild a decade later. Robert describes the basis of his preference for cream to be heated, evaporated, oil separated in a centrifuge and then the oil clarified with the added complication of extracting the residual oil from the sludge using liquid/liquid separation again with heat in the centrifuge. Hansvold was against all use of high heat and the resulting denaturing.

From an economic point of view, what results is a more fragrant oil, not everyone's preference for cooking purposes. The weakness with virgin oil is that it is only extracted using small scale inefficient extraction techniques that are not much more than up-scaled traditional extraction like that of klentic oil in Indonesia or that by halvii's in India. There are at least 3 paths to virgin oil. The traditional way of boiling and skimming, an industrial version in the use of heated oil with fresh meat and the milk-cream-oil route developed by Alfa Laval and others. Somewhere out there is also an equivalent to the cold press olive oil that sells for premium prices.

A great deal of attention has been paid to agreeing standards without paying sufficient consideration to the differences between quality from the three paths outlined above, let alone Hansvold's arguments which complicate things further. I don't know readily although we can find out what the precise differences in quality specifications are but I know that there are significant differences. The reason why the task of finding out has not been urgent is that virgin oil is being produced in small quantities with little knowledge of marketing considerations that make it a village industry niche product that is difficult to sell at a profit. Frankly, the market research has been almost non existent and we have not gone far beyond the tip of the ice berg. We need to go much further to be able to command the premiums required to make virgin oil commercially more attractive than refined copra oil.

There are premium uses for virgin oil that have not been explored and there are implications of the milk or skimmed milk plus cream or the oil plus skimmed plus defat desiccated output ratios that have not been properly or widely appreciated from a feasibility point of view. Milk is three/four times as profitable as average oil prices. The premium for virgin has to be substantial to justify larger levels of production. There are premium uses that do command returns in excess of milk but they are not in the public domain. That results in a rather crude low value niche market for virgin oil so far.

Best wishes,

Vinay Chand
230, Finchley Road,
London NW3 6DJ, UK
Tel: 44-20-7794 5977
Fax: 44-20-7431 5715
vinay...@msn.com<mailto:vinay...@msn.com>



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[eight pennies]

I just noticed this post by Alan Meerow, which tends (in my mind) to strengthen a South American Cocos lineage and a dispersal from a cisAndean (Pacific South American) source. Again, it would be nice to know what stops Cocos from producing hybrids with members of the Syagrus alliance.

alain

2008/12/28 griffinia <grif...@gmail.com>