Mortality of Mexican coconut germplasm due to lethal yellowing

[Hugh Harries]

Mortality of Mexican coconut germplasm due to lethal yellowing

Mortality due to lethal yellowing (LY) was recorded over 15 years for five coconut ecotypes representative of the diversity of coconut germplasm cultivated in Mexico. The trial was established in 1991 in an area of active LY outbreaks on the northern coast of Yucatan, Mexico, using a three block design with random distribution of the ecotypes within each block. The ecotypes included the susceptible Mexican Atlantic Tall (MXAT) and the resistant Malayan Yellow Dwarf (MYD), both used as references, and three Pacific Tall (PT) ecotypes, MXPT1, MXPT2 and MXPT3, to be tested. Parametric and non-parametric variance analyses of the results indicated significant differences (p<0.05) in mortality percentages among ecotypes and between blocks and no ecotype–environment interaction. Mortality was very high in MXAT and very low in MYD, similar to previous results in Jamaica. PT ecotypes had intermediate mortality percentages; mortality was low in MXPT1 and MXPT2 and not statistically different from that in MYD, while mortality was higher in MXPT3 and not statistically different from that in MXAT. According to these results we should expect that LY will cause lower mortality in coconut populations on the Pacific coasts, where most of the germplasm is MXPT, than the mortality rate observed in the Gulf of Mexico, where most of the germplasm is MXAT. MXPT1 and especially MXPT2 could be recommended (a) for replanting programmes; (b) as male parents for the production of dwarf × tall hybrids with the resistant MYD; and (c) for the selection of elite individuals with improved productivity for propagation purposes.

By  D. Zizumbo-Villarreal   P. Colunga-GarcíaMarín   M. Fernández-Barrera   N. Torres-Hernández   C. Oropeza  

PGRNewsletter Article published on No.156, 2008 in English
Page 23 to 33

Bioversity International Newsletter Portal
http://www2.bioversityinternational.org/Publications/PGRNewsletter/default.asp?lang=en\nshared vid http://addthis.com

[Luis de Yturbe]

This study was made with a very reduced sample size and therefore quite worthless…Luis

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[Gerry Balacuit]

ok luis which on worth it? got any essay for us to read.

guess you got nothing. keep quite then

--
Gerry Balacuit

[Coconut Time Line]

To Gerry
You joined in March, so please don't tell other members to "keep
quiet".

To Luis
You joined about six months ago and if you first message says that
something is "quite worthless" it should also have given some
indication of your own qualifications for being so outspoken and,
perhaps, some advice on how to do it better.

To one and all
I posted the summary of the report because I was surprised to find it
published in what appears to the most recent issue of the Plant
Genetic Resources Newsletter - number 156 dated December 2008!
The "reduced sample size" that Luis mentioned has been a constraint
that many coconut research workers face and the Mexican group have
done more than many others - both to do the research AND to get the
results published.
Only when coconut research workers get the encouragement they need
will they benefit from thoughtful POSITIVE criticism from their
colleagues and from the community they serve - eleven million
households worldwide!

Hugh

On Apr 13, 12:37 am, Gerry Balacuit <gbalac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ok luis which on worth it? got any essay for us to read.
> guess you got nothing. keep quite then
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Luis de Yturbe <ytu...@earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>
>
> >  This study was made with a very reduced sample size and therefore quite
> > worthless…Luis
>

> > *From:* coc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:coc...@googlegroups.com] *On
> > Behalf Of *Hugh Harries
> > *Sent:* Monday, April 12, 2010 1:15 AM
> > *To:* Google coconut group; CICLY
> > *Subject:* [Coconut:3216] Mortality of Mexican coconut germplasm due to
> > lethal yellowing
>
> > *. . .

[Luis de Yturbe]

Ask how many palms where in the sample and you will find it was a ridiculous small number. Also palms were in very different environments and managed very differently.

 

Regretfully I threw the study into the waste paper basket. But surely you can find it . Also I advise you to visit the comparison sites in Yucatan.

 

And then we see who will need to keep quite.

 

Luis

[Velaydhan Nair]

Sir, The author of this letter has nearly 22 years experience in breeding for resistance to coconut Root (wilt) disease and we have developed  and released two resistant varieties   against root (wilt) disease.  Luis has given negative opinion probabaly because he may not be knowing how dificult it is to conduct long term breeding programmes in coconut .    The authors have brought out out very useful informations  on  resistance to lethal yellowing disease. Significant diferences in the range of disease incidence among varieties show the genetic diferences among varieties for resistance.  The authors has done a lot of painstaking studies and came out with very valuable informations. Kindly accept my congratulations.  RV Nair Head, Division of Crop Improvement, Centarl Plantation Crops Research InstituteKasaragode, Kerala , India.  --- On Tue, 13/4/10, Luis de Yturbe <ytu...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Yahoo! Messenger. Download Now! http://messenger.yahoo.com/download.php

[Adolfo Martinez]

Thank you Hugh for sending us a every good summary. I find the information very interesting and usefull.

 

Adolfo Martinez

--

[Luis de Yturbe]

RV Nair,

 

I am not criticizing other work. Only the one reported on lethal yellowing disease in Yucatan where I found the universe of coconuts too small and the management too different to make any useful conclusions.

 

Thank you for your e-mail

 

Luis

[Luis de Yturbe]

Please see my answer to other member.

I do not understand the relevance of a true fact to the time I have been a
member.

Please let me know how to unsubscribe to group.

I am not interested in arguing but learning and my believe is that no
information is better that bad information and this is why I made my
comment.

I am sorry you were offended

Luis

-----Original Message-----
From: coc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:coc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf

Hugh

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[Gerry Balacuit]

Hugh,

If you feel you or other member have more right in this forum due to seniority, you're wrong.

Do not invoke about joining a few days ago and be not outspoken. This is not

cattle ranch. We express our dissatisfaction in a less offensive way.

If you owned this forum, feel free to remove people who can express themselves.

In the end you will have puritans only here. 

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[Hugh Harries]

Luis
You are quite right - there is no relevance of a true fact to the time you have been a member. Don't unsubscribe just as an interesting discussion has started but please tell us  before you go (if you do leave) why you found the universe of coconuts too small in Yucatan" to make any useful conclusions about lethal yellowing disease?

What about LY research in Jamaica - an even smaller universe (land area in Jamaica is 10,829 sq km, the state of  Yucatan is 38,402 sq km)?

You do not need me to tell you that the Yucatan peninsula includes three states, Yucatán, Campeche, and Quintana Roo, but at the time that Zizumbo et al planned their research, the Ivory Coast planting material trials in QR had been lost (to drought or other causes) without giving any LY result and the disease was not yet become epidemic in Campeche. But it was active close to Merida where the Director of CICY, Manuel Robert, already had a project for in vitro coconut propagation. The most important decision he made was to include Mexican Pacific coast germplasm with local (Atlantic/Caribbean) tall and Malayan Dwarf because the Jamaican research had predicted three different levels of resistance/susceptibility.

Your belief that no information is better than bad information is difficult to put into action  because every day we are inundated with bad information. This particular information may be out-of-date because of publication delays but it is not "quite worthless" if it provides lessons that will show how to do it better.

Like me, many members are not able to take your advice to visit the comparison sites in Yucatan, so please tell us what we would see?

OK?

Hugh

> into a single email. For more options, go tohttp://groups.google.com/group/coconut/subscribe

[Hugh Harries]

Gerry
What is your problem? You appear to dislike cattle and puritans and you tell another member to be quite but don't like me asking the same person to say what qualifications they have for being outspoken

I do not object to people expressing their knowledge of coconuts - asking them only to follow the straightforward group protocol:

• ask what you want to know and say why you need to know;
• offer some relevant information or
• reply if you have an answer or an opinion; 
• avoid sending messages that do not meet these criteria.

Hugh

[Vinay Chand]

Luis and Gerry,

 

the exchanges on LY in Yucatan have become a bit over heated. I am getting older now but was too well known for referring to people I do not agree with in rather more derogatory terms than used in this exchange. We are a community in this Group, which includes people of very varying expertise but generally treats one another with some respect and affection.

 

Gerry, you are quite wrong, Hugh does have the right to some degree of special status in this Group since it would not exist without him. He has put in a lot of effort over a long time to make it the success it has become. He is, in reality, the Moderator although he is too modest to say so. Actually, he also has a special status because of his degree of expertise, particularly with members such as me.

 

Not being a scientist, my interest in lethal yellow is in terms of its effect on production and the fact that we don’t know how to stop it. It quite terrifies me. When I have to take it into account due to my work in the Dominican Republic, Jamaica or Mozambique, I am forced to turn around and look at the archives for help and I usually go running to experts like Hugh for advice. He has been invaluable for experts like me, so I would recommend Gerry and Luis that you take a long breath, calm the language and engage us in a spirit of comradeship.

 

 

Vinay Chand,
230, Finchley Road,
London NW36DJ,
UK
Tel:020-77945977
Fax: 020-7431 5715
www.ruraldevelopment.info

 

[Velaydhan Nair]

Dear members, Hugh harries has great expertise on coconut and he puts in a lot of hard work to sustain this group. This group owes a lot to him,much more than anybody else.We members do not like anyone to write hurting, even in a small way,a person like  Hugh Harries RV Nair --- On Wed, 14/4/10, Hugh Harries <hugh.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Luis de Yturbe]

Hugh,

 

Although Yucatan State has as you stated correctly 38,402 sq  km not even .001% of the territory has palms. As a fact palms exist mostly as decorative for resorts and private homes in the beach. I myself have 160 palms between a small farm and in a property I own in Chicxulub. A tiny universe but a large a real one for Yucatan standards. All palms are equally and properly managed.

 

The largest grower is Roberto Hernadez, a Mexican millionaire who bought over 600 maypam palms sold to him by Rafael Aristi  for decorative purposes for his 4 resort/haciendas and property south of Tulum. These palms were imported them from Costa Rica and bred by Rafael.. The survival rate would be an interesting fact to know  and easy to find out by any of the scientists in Yucatan. This data alone would be more accurate than the one provided by official study. . I talked to one of his managers and he told me he had lost over 50 % of them to yellow in the first 5 years, but this fact needs to be confirmed.

 

I am not a scientist but if you are interested in my results  with coconut palms over the last 10 years here they are. I am presently in Europe so I  don’t have the exact numbers but the ones I am giving you by memory are very close.

 

I have 160 palms (70 pacific tall, 30 malayan dwarf and 60 hibrid maypan brought originally from Costa Rica. In the first 7 years 20% of the pacific died, 40 % of the hybrids as well as the Malayan dwarf. I have replaced all my dead palms with pacific tall not only because I got a much better survival rate but because they are more beautiful, hardy and get less mites which is a problem here. I have only three palm diesin the last two year.  I have fumigated against mites in the last two years and this may be a factor.

 

I hope this non-professional, limited information is helpful.

 

This will be my last e-mail. I have asked to be unsubscribed.

 

Thank you,

 

Luis

 

In the last 5 years I have lost to disease

 

From: coc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:coc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Harries

Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:15 PM
To: coc...@googlegroups.com

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[Luis de Yturbe]

Please  tell me how to unsubscribe . This is the message I get

 

 

Luis

 

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[Carlos Oropeza]

Dear Hugh:

 

Thanks very much for letting the CICLY community know about our recent publication release.

 

Dear CICLY community:

 

Acknowledging the recent exchange of messages in relation to the paper mentioned above, we would like to present the following points.

 

·         The plants included in the trial are not in different sites. They are all in a single site, in which the disease was active during length of the trial.

 

·         All the plants included in the trial were of the same age and planted at the same time.

 

·         The plants included in the trial were not managed differently. And managed was carried out to allow the presence of grass species to promote occurrence of potential insect vectors.

 

·         Any effect of environmental differences within the site of the trial was tried to be overcome with the design of the experiment.

 

·         The presence of the LY pathogen in diseased plants was determined using microscopy techniques at the beginning and molecular techniques the rest of the time.

 

·         The trial included the very susceptible Atlantic Tall palms, both as a way to promote disease pressure, when they got infected, and as a reference ecotype to determine disease incidence.

 

·         The trial included the highly resistant Malayan Yellow Dwarf palms as a reference ecotype for resistance.

 

·         The trial evaluated three Mexican Pacific Ecotypes that were the main subject of study.

 

·         The sample size for each ecotype evaluated was:

 

Malayan Yellow Dwarf:                 18 palms

Atlantic Tall:                                  91 palms

Mexican Pacific Tall Ecotype 1:  152 palms

Mexican Pacific Tall Ecotype 2:    90 palms

Mexican Pacific Tall Ecotype 3:    62 palms

 

·         The differences reported between the responses of the ecotypes evaluated, were analyzed statistically by parametric and non-parametric methods and the results with both showed to be significant (p < 0.05).

 

All these pieces of information are described in detail within the text of the paper, but we are highlighting them here to facilitate the discussion currently going on at CICLY. 

 

At the same time we invite those that have not read the whole paper to do so, by visiting the Journal web page with the the link kindly provided by Hugh.

 

With kind regards for everybody

 

Daniel Zizumbo and Carlos Oropeza

Centro de Investigacion Cientifica de Yucatan (CICY)

Merida, Yucatan, Mexico

[Fabien Hountondji]

Dear Coconut friends,

I have followed the on-going discussion and would like to invite everyone to tolerance. This is a very interesting community, thanks to Hugh - for the moderating work is tremendous - and all contributors, to Luis especially for the additional information provided on the debate. Thanks also go to all researchers and authors of coconut literature productions, particular attention to Zizumbo et al. for the long term and interesting research. "Words can hurt and Words can cure". Let's respect Words and keep our love for coconut together!

Kind regards,

Fabien

---

From: Luis de Yturbe <ytu...@earthlink.net>

To: coc...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 7:02:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Coconut:3232] Re: Mortality of Mexican coconut germplasm due to lethal yellowing

[Hugh Harries]

Correction

Carlos has advised me of a correction to his earlier message:

Original "The presence of the LY pathogen in diseased plants was determined using microscopy techniques at the beginning and molecular techniques the rest of the time."

Corrected "The presence of the LY pathogen in diseased plants was determined using molecular techniques."

To which I might add that the visual recognition of LY symptoms (such as the difference in leaf discolouration for instance) matched those reported by Whitehead in Jamaica, thirty years earlier.

I should also admit my own involvement with this trial, dating from 1988.

Hugh

[Cleveland Paul]

Hugh et.al., I can recall that (perhaps) towards the end of 1997, as part of a Training Course we visited a coastal site just outside Merida. Part of this visit was a tour of a long-term ecological experiment to evaluate the response of different coconut genotypes to lethal yellowing. Is this site part of this continuing study? Is this the final report on this study? If not there should be scope to gather even more data, albeit not only in space but over time.   I recall at the time that plans had taken shape to extend this kind of long-term eco-study over macro-environments in different coastal zones in Atlantic Mexico and across countries. Are some of these environments referenced in this discussion?   These studies should be expanded, encouraged, but the question of sample size will be explained by the authors and publishers. I hope to gain some insight from these discussions, since we here at NARI have already started establishment of two ( 6-acre, and expanding) depositories long term ecological studies as well.     Regards.   Cleveland Paul NARI, GUYANA   -------Original Message-------

From: Hugh Harries Date: 04/13/2010 5:48:15 PM To: coc...@googlegroups.com

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