source code ownership

[Houman Kargaran]

Hi guys,
When you guys make an app for the client you owns the source code or the client? (From IP point of view)

Cheers

--
Ballarat -  VIC  3350
Australia
Mobile: 0418 659 160

[Gordon Heydon]

Hi,

it all depends on the contract.

I think generally it belongs to the client, but I think that there is some situations depending on how you developed the app where it does belong to you. But then it could be that it needs to be specified in the contract.

I think generally it is where the app was developed using code which had been previously developed by you then it will be yours, and if they just hired a code monkey to hack on some code for them, then it belongs to them. There would be very clear cases, but specifying it in the contact will make it very clear.

Gordon.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and don't play on on TV.

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[C Diehm]

Clients assume they have ownership of the work I produce for them. Ideally, I try to negotiate an alternative agreement around licensing and exclusivity, instead of an outright transfer of ownership of the IP. I try for this because I like to consider my work valuable and try to reuse as much as I can. 

Of course, this depends entirely on things like:

- budget

- project size

- project goals 

and other negotiations with the client

Basically, it's a case by case basis. 

Cade.

- - - - - - - - - -

@helveticade

www.cade.com.au

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[Paul Chapman]

Depends on the commercial arrangement. 

If you charge a lower upfront amount, you may want to lock them in to use you for maintenance by not granting a source code license (just a binary license).

Most clients want ownership of the code too for piece of mind.

When we offer a binary only license we give them an "out clause" where they can buy the source code for a nominal fee (some % of expected future maintenance income) and we offer to give them the code if we ever choose to no longer support the app. 

Hope that helps

Paul

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[Paul Chapman]

What Gordon says is generally true based on what constitutes a common commercial relationship. That is, the parties agree that the work produced belongs to the client. However this depends entirely on the contract (written, verbal or implied).

You can contract for anything, but you obviously cannot assign copyright you don't own yourself, just like you can't sell something you don't own.

p

[Luke Tupper]

This is something to be very conscious of when you are negotiating the contract. Especially if you have a 'common library' or even just a big pile of code snippets which you have used over and over again.  It is worth having something in there about common libraries that you have created and that the client doesn't have exclusive claim to that code. Of course you can end up arguing about who owns additions to those libraries. 

Also it is worth talking to the client up front about third party open source libraries which you may use in the project. Better to have the talk at the start of the project rather than the end when the client wants you to remove all the open source code (for whatever reason). 

[Ashley McCoy]

For what's It's worth 

-- snip

Licencing

Generally I work with Open Source Licensing so any application functionality that does not impinge on the clients business data would be reusable by any party involved or could be used for teaching/learning purposes. Client data including images and application artwork would not be a part of any open source distribution unless cleared by yourself.  This just allows me to talk to other developers and students and to blog about iOS development and lets you reuse the code as well.

--snip

regards,

Ashley

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Paul Chapman <pa...@longweekendmobile.com> wrote:

--

-----------------------------------

Ashley McCoy

Mindeater Web Services

0439 700 331

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[Nathan de Vries]

Hi Houman,

The general idea is that you don't want to screw yourself (and future
clients) out of your ability to re-use generically useful code & tools
(IP) on future projects.

While ham-fisted IP agreements (the gold standard) are frustrating &
harmful, do note that they successfully address the legitimate
concerns of your clients.

A good way of convincing clients that it's not in their best interest
to have outright ownership of IP is to compare the cost of
green-fielding development versus reusing valuable, accumulated IP.
Your client will either baulk at the cost of writing everything from
scratch and cede to your point, or find another developer who won't
question the status quo :-)

You might be interested in this related question I asked on
StackOverflow back in 2009:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/565206/mutually-beneficial-ip-copyright-clauses-for-contract-based-freelance-work

Cheers,

Nathan de Vries

[Andy Nicholson]

Hi
If you are a contractor, with no explicit agreement over copyright
licenses in your contract, you by default have copyright over the work.

If you are an employee, with no explicit agreement over copyright
licenses in your employment, the company by default owns the copyright
over works you produce.

This may only apply to NSW, not Vic
http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheets/info-sheet/employment-issues-for-nsw-employees/#headingh23

[Haibin Li]

Think of how many benefits that you had got from the people who contributed the open source software. You will not care who should own the source  codes. In my opinion, once my job was paid, I would be happy to see my work can benefit more people.

Haibin

IOS Freelancer