CloudCamp in the Cloud - Linux Desktop Support

[Dave Nielsen]

[changing subject to reflect new topic]

Hi Eric, I have the answer.

Our audience is clearly more than the average web surfer, so 1% was clearly too low. But Alestic is clearly on the high end. A more accurate count is probably CloudCamp itself. Our Google Analytics data says that over the past month nearly 10% of or visits were from Linux users. 

Visits over the past 30 days by OS:

1. Windows   4,954 63.62%

2. Macintosh 1,826 23.45%

3. Linux           772   9.91%

4. iPhone         138   1.77%

5. SunOS          46    0.59%

6. (not set)        15    0.19%

7. Android         14    0.18%

8. iPod              12    0.15%

9. BlackBerry      6    0.08%

10.SymbianOS    2    0.03%

11.FreeBSD        1    0.01%

12.LG                 1    0.01%

If we assume that 50% of Linux users have access to a Mac or PC, then we're able to serve ~95% of our audience. Not bad for our first time, but certainly not perfect. So if someone can help us find a solution our Linux-only users, then I'll do my best to make it available. 

Any ideas? Does DimDim support a client for Linux?

Dave

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:47 AM, Eric Hammond <eham...@thinksome.com> wrote:

Dave Nielsen wrote:
> Linux *Servers* are used by the biggest player in the field, not
> Linux *Desktops" which still only account for ~1% market share

> <http://www.berkeleylug.com/?p=43>.

Quoting a number like that is not capturing the true impact of what you
are doing.

1% Linux be accurate for a random sampling of consumers in some Internet
populations, but I'm sure you'd agree that the percentage is going to be
greater for tech types who are actually doing things with services like
Amazon EC2.

As a possible upper limit, I'll point out that over a quarter of the
visitors to http://alestic.com are running Linux.  [Also of note: more
visitors are running Macs than Windows.]  I'll agree that since this
site is targeted towards using Linux on EC2, it will have a higher
percentage of Linux users than an average site hyping "cloud".

So the true percentage of Linux desktop users interested in
participating in CloudCamp in the cloud is probably somewhere between 1
and 25.  But consider what these types of hard-core Linux users have to
offer, especially to CloudCamp attendees who are interested in running
Linux servers on the established players like Amazon EC2 or Rackspace or...

Just because I am the only person who spoke up, doesn't mean that there
aren't many more who took a glance and thought, "Oh, another gotomeeting
thing that I can't participate in.  On to other things."  I've done it
many times myself and nearly did here.

I suppose CloudCamp may have a bias towards Windows.  When I sponsored
and attended CloudCampLA it was even held at the Microsoft offices and a
lot of the discussion seemed focused on Windowy things.  However, if you
exclude Linux users from events like CloudCamp in the cloud because
there aren't many Linux users, then you will continue to push Linux
users away from CloudCamp, fulfilling your own prophesy that not many
Linux users are interested in CloudCamp.

It's ok to reduce and focus your target audience; you should just be
aware you're doing it.

--
Eric Hammond

[Dave Nielsen]

ps. We are NOT biased toward any one vendor. I work very hard to be fair to the entire ecosystem. I personally have organized CloudCamps with many vendor offices including Sun, BlueLock, Google, Amazon, WebTrends, Hosting365 as well as educational venues such as Foothill College, University of Minnesota, Università Bocconi, Georgia Tech, University of Madrid and the University of Phoenix this weekend. Not to mention all of the other private or government venues. As a point in fact, Sun has provided a venue as often as Microsoft. So your one experience in LA is not representative and is no better than my 1% stat about Linux desktops users. So there! ;-)

pps. I should probably get some sleep now. CloudCamp in the Cloud is in 3 hours. Yikes!

[Gabriele Bozzi]

I confirm, having organized a CloudCamp with Dave, that the
organization is not biased towards Windows.
(What follows is my opinion, not necessarily shared by CCamp organization)
It's the task of the organizers, however, to be opportunistic for the
good makings of each CloudCamp. Microsoft is, as many others, an
influential player in the Cloud panorama, we give space to those who
have something to say: it's a very simple and effective principle.

Voila', now Dave can go to sleep.

Gabriele
***********************************************
Gabriele Nicola Bozzi
KAUKANA
Vrasenestraat 3
9120 - Beveren - Belgium
Twitter:gabrielebozzi
***********************************************
A third is a gentleman's degree.
Anything more betrays a lack of the
Corinthian spirit.
***********************************************

[Samuel Charrington]

Anyone consider launching a Windows box in the cloud and connecting in via rdesktop or vnc?

Probably 10-15 min to set up (most waiting for your image to be created) and maybe a buck in usage.

GoGrid supports windows and usually has promo codes out there that would easily make this free. (When they see this I'm sure they'll offer one up. :-)

Won't be the best quality, but we're talking slides here not 1080p.

---

[Gabriele Bozzi]

Samuel,

It's not what I call easy access.
The goal is to allow everybody to participate.
Such bridge configuration are possible but would discourage who is
willing to attend for curiosity for example.
CCamp on the Cloud has the potential to attract the occasional
attendee or just those who are curious, however, it must be easy to
setup.

Furthermore, on linux not all remote clients support sound, I am
almost sure VNC (free version at least) doesn't..
Perhaps using GotoMyPC would do but then the boyz of BSD would start
crying we discriminate them.. And here we are again...

Gabriele

***********************************************
Gabriele Nicola Bozzi
KAUKANA

Belgium
Twitter:gabrielebozzi
***********************************************
A third is a gentleman's degree.
Anything more betrays a lack of the
Corinthian spirit.
***********************************************

[Samuel Charrington]

Sound is handled via phone line. Shouldn't be an issue.

---

[pchacin]

Do we really need to get into this kind of discussions?

How did the objective fact that a webminar doesn't support Linux clients,
(by the way, a very common situation with most online conference systems
I've used)
became and accusation of bias towards a vendor?

Regards

--
========================================================================
0 0 0 Pablo Chacin | Dept. d'Arquitectura de Computadors
0 0 0 e-mail: pch...@ac.upc.edu | UPC-Campus Nord. Modul D6-212
0 0 0 phone: +34 +93 405 4059 | Jordi Girona, 1-3
U P C fax: +34 +93 401 7055 | 08034 Barcelona - SPAIN
www: http://personals.ac.upc.es/pchacin
========================================================================

[administrador facturae]

My 2 cents:

You all know the Pareto's Principle, also called the 80/20 Rule...
In Cloud Computing, the knowledgeable 20% are really prone to be Linux users.
In CloudCamp, this 9.91% would probably be able to share the same or even  more useful experiences, knowledge and ideas than the remaining people, specially the LINUX ONLY users that are reluctant tu use windows by definition.

As a mater of fact, I just Invited my Cloud Coding business partner, which among of many other technical and commercial aptitudes is part and member of the Debian team, and an important contibutor of Ubuntu. I did ask him to join us today and he just could not, a shame...

Anyway, cmon this is the first virtual CloudCamp, we'll figure it out for the next one, no doubt...

Saludos, Yosu.

[Gabriele Bozzi]

Telephone lines are not for everybody.
Two examples:

- Me calling from Belgium to an US 0900 line?
- Most people have no fixed phone, some VoIp have issues with GSM operators.

Phone seems to be intended to augment sound quality not as technology
substitute in this case.

From a business perspective you cannot demand your customer to
consolidate the technology for you. They simply get away and look
somewhere else.
It's not a matter to tell what is possible but what is viable or practical.

***********************************************
Gabriele Nicola Bozzi
KAUKANA
Belgium
Twitter:gabrielebozzi
***********************************************
A third is a gentleman's degree.
Anything more betrays a lack of the
Corinthian spirit.
***********************************************

[Gabriele Bozzi]

Yosu,

100% with you.
We loose an important contribution keeping it this way.

Gabriele
***********************************************
Gabriele Nicola Bozzi
KAUKANA
Belgium
Twitter:gabrielebozzi
***********************************************
A third is a gentleman's degree.
Anything more betrays a lack of the
Corinthian spirit.
***********************************************

[Samuel Charrington]

Look, I am not arguing against a better solution for Linux users for next time. I am suggesting a possible option for Linux users who would like to participate today. Let's spend today focusing on such solutions, and we can start tomorrow looking at alternative platforms for next time.

Oh, and GoToWebinar provides local dial-in numbers in many european countries.

Sam

---

Gabriele Bozzi wrote:


Telephone lines are not for everybody.
Two examples:

- Me calling from Belgium to an US 0900 line?
- Most people have no fixed phone, some VoIp have issues with GSM operators.

Phone seems to be intended to augment sound quality not as technology
substitute in this case.

From a business perspective you cannot demand your customer to
consolidate the technology for you. They simply get away and look
somewhere else.
It's not a matter to tell what is possible but what is viable or practical.

***********************************************
Gabriele Nicola Bozzi
KAUKANA
Belgium
Twitter:gabrielebozzi
***********************************************
A third is a gentleman's degree.
Anything more betrays a lack of the
Corinthian spirit.
***********************************************

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Samuel Charrington <s...@appistry.com> wrote:
> Sound is handled via phone line. Shouldn't be an issue.
>
> ________________________________
> Gabriele Bozzi wrote:
>
>
> Samuel,
>
> It's not what I call easy access.
> The goal is to allow everybody to participate.
> Such bridge configuration are possible but would discourage who is
> willing to attend for curiosity for example.
> CCamp on the Cloud has the potential to attract the occasional
> attendee or just those who are curious, however, it must be easy to
> setup.
>
> Furthermore, on linux not all remote clients support sound, I am
> almost sure VNC (free version at least) doesn't..
> Perhaps using GotoMyPC would do but then the boyz of BSD would start
> crying we discriminate them.. And here we are again...
>

> Gabriele
>
> ***********************************************
> Gabriele Nicola Bozzi
> KAUKANA
> Belgium
> Twitter:gabrielebozzi
> ***********************************************
> A third is a gentleman's degree.
> Anything more betrays a lack of the
> Corinthian spirit.
> ***********************************************
>
>
>

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Samuel Charrington <s...@appistry.com>
> wrote:
>> Anyone consider launching a Windows box in the cloud and connecting in via
>> rdesktop or vnc?
>>
>> Probably 10-15 min to set up (most waiting for your image to be created)
>> and
>> maybe a buck in usage.
>>
>> GoGrid supports windows and usually has promo codes out there that would
>> easily make this free. (When they see this I'm sure they'll offer one up.
>> :-)
>>
>> Won't be the best quality, but we're talking slides here not 1080p.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________

[Gabriele Bozzi]

Samuel,

I am not arguing.
I just defend the idea of being an open forum as it has been until now.
I appreciate this kind of brainstormings as they give us a better view
of our community.
I am with you: this CloudCamp goes with the means that are available,
next one might need a revision if we want to keep our user base and,
possibly, expand it.

But is good if we shout a bit ;-)

PS: no local number for Belgium, fortunately I use a Mac.

Gabriele
***********************************************
Gabriele Nicola Bozzi
KAUKANA
Belgium
Twitter:gabrielebozzi
***********************************************
A third is a gentleman's degree.
Anything more betrays a lack of the
Corinthian spirit.
***********************************************

[Alexis Richardson]

Guys

Good luck with the first Cloudcamp in the cloud.

Roadbumps aside, it's going to be great!

Sorry I cannot join... just too too snowed atm.

alexis

[Michael Sheehan]

Guys,

This is sort of last minute, but you could always spin up a GoGrid Cloud
Server (Windows box) and RDC into that using a Linux RDP client to watch the
presentations. Not a very quick thing but then you would be using the
"cloud" to watch "CloudCamp in the Cloud".

If you use my promo code "GGMS" it will give you $100 credit which is more
than enough time to spin up a server and connect to GoToMeeting. Not a great
solution but it should work. Then delete your server when you are done - aka
Disposable IT!

Here is the direct link: http://www.gogrid.com/signUp/?promocode=GGMS

-Michael


On 10/22/09 6:57 AM, "Alexis Richardson" <alexis.r...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Eric Hammond]

You and Dave are entirely correct and I take all the blame for any such
implications which were generated from my limited view attending the
event at Microsoft and getting what I perceived as "tough luck, Linux
boy" on the webinar issue.

CloudCamp loves everybody :) and I'm glad to see so many ideas bouncing
around about how to include everybody.

--
Eric Hammond

[Sam Johnston]

Guys,

I've been thinking about this some more and while GoToWebinar wasn't perfect today it was trivially easy to get up and running on both Mac and Windows which is more than can be said for many of the competitors. If Linux support is a "must have" feature then perhaps using WebEx is an option in future.

Another is to have people hosting local groups in conference rooms in which case they can:
 - provide a projector and dial-in
 - each do a local lightning talk
 - run local breakouts
 - bio breaks & networking
 - (most importantly) beer & pizza

If this is to be a monthly affair however it might not be worth the hassle... just an idea.

Sam

[Reuven Cohen]

I've also been playing with DimDim, and I've come to the analysis that; yes it supports Linux, but it lacks a great deal of the features that made the event today work so well. One of the issues is the complete lack of audio management aspects for attendee's. I'd say DimDim isn't the answer.

We may want to stream the next CloudCamp's audio in a live format, as well as include a chat room and possibly a VNC for linux users, which may solve most of the current problems.

r/c

--
-- 

[eric]

On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 21:22 -0400, Reuven Cohen wrote:
> I've also been playing with DimDim, and I've come to the analysis
> that; yes it supports Linux, but it lacks a great deal of the features
> that made the event today work so well. One of the issues is the
> complete lack of audio management aspects for attendee's. I'd say
> DimDim isn't the answer.
>
> We may want to stream the next CloudCamp's audio in a live format, as
> well as include a chat room and possibly a VNC for linux users, which
> may solve most of the current problems.

If lightning talks aren't a necessary component (and with a monthly
format may not be practical), I say that the VNC wouldn't even be
necessary.

Freenode has a web-based chatroom at http://webchat.freenode.net/ which
"just works", alleviating the need for any special configuration,
clients, or firewall settings for those not familiar with IRC.

Those on Linux could either call in by phone or submit
questions/response by chat. Personally, though, as a Linux user -- and
I think there are a number of us here -- I'd prefer to be a first-class
citizen and have the same features/capabilities as the Windows/Mac
users.

--
Regards,
Eric Windisch