When selecting a cloud provider, how important is their network performance?
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chris...@gmail.com
Oct 18, 2011, 12:10:40 PM10/18/11
to Cloud Computing
A lot of providers have been touting their network performance, but
how important is that when selecting a cloud provider? What use cases
require a top-tier network performance?
how important is that when selecting a cloud provider? What use cases
require a top-tier network performance?
Scott Damron
Oct 18, 2011, 12:20:01 PM10/18/11
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
If you think about how many "users" a company in this business has on
their network, you will see the importance right away. If you have
300 companies transferring data and running applications on a shared
network, the performance is quite important. The hard thing is
separating the truth from the hype, if they have the "potential" to be
fast, but don't have network engineers who are good at exploiting that
potential, does it really matter? Latency can kill a company.
their network, you will see the importance right away. If you have
300 companies transferring data and running applications on a shared
network, the performance is quite important. The hard thing is
separating the truth from the hype, if they have the "potential" to be
fast, but don't have network engineers who are good at exploiting that
potential, does it really matter? Latency can kill a company.
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Jeff Darcy
Oct 18, 2011, 12:19:37 PM10/18/11
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Network performance is more important than people think, because you're likely
to be accessing a lot of your storage over that network. I'm a fileystem
developer, but even for what I do providers with blazing-fast storage
performance often lose out to those with better network performance.
Jafar Ismail
Oct 18, 2011, 1:15:56 PM10/18/11
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Should anyone even have a doubt about the importance of the network performance, try youtube on dial-up networking connection, assuming you can find one :-)
Cheers
Jafar
James Pulley
Oct 18, 2011, 2:10:52 PM10/18/11
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
A kind of quick answer is that "it depends..." Applications have classical
finite pinch points in their resource fingerprint: CPU, DISK, NETWORK and
RAM. Hit the limits on any one of the prior and your application is going
to perform slow. If your applications are very well behaved on the network
front, minimizing data flows to the extreme, then having a great network
interconnect to your provider is a luxury you don't ~~personally
need~~~....until you realize that you are likely going to be sharing a
couple of large internet backbone pipes with a lot of not so well behaved
apps that are crunching through the bandwidth. And that is where having
the large bandwidth in and out is to your benefit. If you are working with
a hosting provider which services hoards of companies from a single location
then your apps are less likely to experience backpressure from a congested
shared external link with large amounts of bandwidth available.
finite pinch points in their resource fingerprint: CPU, DISK, NETWORK and
RAM. Hit the limits on any one of the prior and your application is going
to perform slow. If your applications are very well behaved on the network
front, minimizing data flows to the extreme, then having a great network
interconnect to your provider is a luxury you don't ~~personally
need~~~....until you realize that you are likely going to be sharing a
couple of large internet backbone pipes with a lot of not so well behaved
apps that are crunching through the bandwidth. And that is where having
the large bandwidth in and out is to your benefit. If you are working with
a hosting provider which services hoards of companies from a single location
then your apps are less likely to experience backpressure from a congested
shared external link with large amounts of bandwidth available.
Side benefit, if you minimize your network data flows you will also pay less
for your bytes in/bytes out of the cloud. :)
'Pulley
-----Original Message-----
From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ch...@blackbelt-strategies.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:11 PM
To: Cloud Computing
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] When selecting a cloud provider, how important
is their network performance?
--
Chris Marino
Oct 18, 2011, 2:39:06 PM10/18/11
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
The sad truth is that right now, network performance is not terribly important. If it was, certain cloud providers wouldn't have many customers.
Most applications that have been build in the cloud have been designed to be resilient to many network problems. They have to be because network performance in the cloud it terrible. Just awful. Dropped packets, large, random throughput variations, bizarre asymmetry.
I did not believe it was as bad as I was being told until I saw it for myself. I wish I had some benchmark data to share with you on this. After seeing a cloud provider's network behave like it did for us, I'll now believe anything.
My personal feeling is that this has got to change. App deployments will require much better networking. Not just performance, but control and administration as well.
CM
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Dave Corley
Oct 18, 2011, 3:04:43 PM10/18/11
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com, cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
@Chris... To your question about use cases...
1. Any interactive communications services where latency or ability for user to "interrupt" during an interactive conversation across the SP WAN. IP voice, video are examples. Predictable latency, jitter, packet loss are essential part of SLAs for these services.
2. Some classes of media streaming where streams cannot be buffered at either client or server app. This use case demands low packet loss and low jitter across the WAN.
3. Any application distributed across multiple sites, where stateful client app interact with stateful server app. Examples include distributed enterprise apps built/managed by IT. SAP, Oracle apps where if client and server states are mismatched because of latency or client-server timing issues across the WAN. If client and server states are not in synch, database chaos ensues and IT spends extra time trying to make the master database synched again.
4. User experience delays. Whether end user has a stateless browser or a stateful client app user interface, we all know what a pain in the rear high latency responses to client stimuli can be. Wide Area Application Services (WAAS) are intended to mitigate the UI delays between distributed client and server apps. But poor SP WAN performance can make useless any latency mitigation provided through WAAS.
Dave
Dave
omikloud
Oct 30, 2011, 8:10:53 AM10/30/11
to Cloud Computing
Network performance is one of the key parameters that definitely is an
influencing factor for taking a cloud related service decision. This
is one of the factors that influence the QoS (Quality of Service) that
customers get from cloud service providers. Note that most MSPs/
Service providers do not have much control on the public network from
which the customers access their infrastructure on cloud. What service
providers mean when they claim about network performance is usually on
the private network (usually 1g and 10g backbone's) where the cloud
operations are running. the network throughput on the private side or
with in the cloud providers/MSPs co-located infrastructure is what
they can control.
On Oct 19, 12:04 am, Dave Corley <dcorle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Chris... To your question about use cases...
>
> 1. Any interactive communications services where latency or ability for user to "interrupt" during an interactive conversation across the SP WAN. IP voice, video are examples. Predictable latency, jitter, packet loss are essential part of SLAs for these services.
>
> 2. Some classes of media streaming where streams cannot be buffered at either client or server app. This use case demands low packet loss and low jitter across the WAN.
>
> 3. Any application distributed across multiple sites, where stateful client app interact with stateful server app. Examples include distributed enterprise apps built/managed by IT. SAP, Oracle apps where if client and server states are mismatched because of latency or client-server timing issues across the WAN. If client and server states are not in synch, database chaos ensues and IT spends extra time trying to make the master database synched again.
>
> 4. User experience delays. Whether end user has a stateless browser or a stateful client app user interface, we all know what a pain in the rear high latency responses to client stimuli can be. Wide Area Application Services (WAAS) are intended to mitigate the UI delays between distributed client and server apps. But poor SP WAN performance can make useless any latency mitigation provided through WAAS.
>
> Dave
>
> On Oct 18, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Jafar Ismail <jafar_ism...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Should anyone even have a doubt about the importance of the network performance, try youtube on dial-up networking connection, assuming you can find one :-)
>
> > Cheers
>
> > Jafar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Should anyone even have a doubt about the importance of the network performance, try youtube on dial-up networking connection, assuming you can find one :-)
>
> > Cheers
>
> > Jafar
>
> > From: Scott Damron <sdam...@gmail.com>
> > To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ Cloud Computing ] When selecting a cloud provider, how important is their network performance?
>
> > If you think about how many "users" a company in this business has on
> > their network, you will see the importance right away. If you have
> > 300 companies transferring data and running applications on a shared
> > network, the performance is quite important. The hard thing is
> > separating the truth from the hype, if they have the "potential" to be
> > fast, but don't have network engineers who are good at exploiting that
> > potential, does it really matter? Latency can kill a company.
>
> > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Ch...@blackbelt-strategies.com
> > <chrisheg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > A lot of providers have been touting their network performance, but
> > > how important is that when selecting a cloud provider? What use cases
> > > require a top-tier network performance?
>
> > > --
> > > ~~~~~
> > > Call For Proposals is Open
> > > 2nd Annual UP 2011 Cloud Conference
> > >http://up-con.com/propose
>
> > > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > > Follow us on Twitter @cloudcomp_group @cloudslam @up_con
> > > Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> > To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ Cloud Computing ] When selecting a cloud provider, how important is their network performance?
>
> > If you think about how many "users" a company in this business has on
> > their network, you will see the importance right away. If you have
> > 300 companies transferring data and running applications on a shared
> > network, the performance is quite important. The hard thing is
> > separating the truth from the hype, if they have the "potential" to be
> > fast, but don't have network engineers who are good at exploiting that
> > potential, does it really matter? Latency can kill a company.
>
> > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Ch...@blackbelt-strategies.com
> > <chrisheg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > A lot of providers have been touting their network performance, but
> > > how important is that when selecting a cloud provider? What use cases
> > > require a top-tier network performance?
>
> > > --
> > > ~~~~~
> > > Call For Proposals is Open
> > > 2nd Annual UP 2011 Cloud Conference
> > >http://up-con.com/propose
>
> > > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > > Follow us on Twitter @cloudcomp_group @cloudslam @up_con
>
> > > Download hundreds of recorded cloud sessions at
> > > -http://cloudslam.org/register
> > > -http://2010.up-con.com/register
> > > -http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
> > > -http://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
> > > Download hundreds of recorded cloud sessions at
> > > -http://cloudslam.org/register
> > > -http://2010.up-con.com/register
> > > -http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
>
> > > or get it on DVD at
> > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004L1755W,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1U
> > > or get it on DVD at
>
> > > ~~~~~
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cloud Computing" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cloud-computi...@googlegroups.com
>
> > --
> > ~~~~~
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>
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
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>
> > --
> > ~~~~~
> > Register to attend UP 2011 Cloud Conference
> >http://up-con.com/register-now
>
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Follow us on Twitter @cloudcomp_group @cloudslam @up_con
>
> > Download hundreds of recorded cloud sessions at
> > -http://cloudslam.org/register
> > -http://2010.up-con.com/register
> > -http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
> > -http://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
> > Download hundreds of recorded cloud sessions at
> > -http://cloudslam.org/register
> > -http://2010.up-con.com/register
> > -http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
>
> > or get it on DVD at
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004L1755W,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1U
> > or get it on DVD at
>
> > ~~~~~
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cloud Computing" group.
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cloud-computi...@googlegroups.com
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> > --
> > ~~~~~
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> > --
> > ~~~~~
> > Register to attend UP 2011 Cloud Conference
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>
> > Posting guidelines:http://bit.ly/bL3u3v
> > Follow us on Twitter @cloudcomp_group @cloudslam @up_con
>
> > Download hundreds of recorded cloud sessions at
> > -http://cloudslam.org/register
> > -http://2010.up-con.com/register
> > -http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
> > -http://cloudslam10.com/content/registration
> > Download hundreds of recorded cloud sessions at
> > -http://cloudslam.org/register
> > -http://2010.up-con.com/register
> > -http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
>
> > or get it on DVD at
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004L1755W,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1U
> > or get it on DVD at
Yoanna Savova
Nov 1, 2011, 9:46:27 AM11/1/11
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
To the point. The discussion is not whether cloud providers' network performance is good or bad. Rather, in order to give a satisfactory answer to the question in how far network performance is important, we should clarify the different cases to be compared. I believe that network performance has been and will continue to be important since it is one of the features under a process of improvement. Still, we should not solely focus on influence of the cloud provider on its network performance but include other factors such as amount of users sharing a network, PC's characteristics, what infrastructure the cloud is built on, the type of cloud, etc. that may either constitute an obstacle to the performance rate or boost it. The networking performance that a customer of the cloud experiences is therefore a combination of a number of internal and external factors. All in all, cloud network performance is important because, along with storage performance, it is a foundation for service delivery, many other features of computing are wholly reliant on it.
Cheers,
Yoanna Savova
CloudSigma
Post Job/Resume at http://cloudjobs.net
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or get it on DVD at
Yoanna Savova
Nov 1, 2011, 3:07:56 PM11/1/11
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Dear Miha,
Yoanna Savova
Actually my point is that networking is underlying other aspects like storage performance and often relies on third parties externally in the case of client end performance. If you have something else interesting to share about networking, please.
Yoanna Savova
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