cloud computing
Jimmy...@dell.com
All,
I have been doing the cloud stuff for about 2 years now and it has been interesting to see how it has evolved. The idea of cloud computing first emerged with respect to the future of the internet where the computing would be done elsewhere or “in the cloud”. The problem we have is everyone has jumped on the idea of CC and is claiming whatever they are or have been doing is CC. Let me offer you this as my idea for the true definition that is really very simple.
Computing Definition: Packing of computing resources (usually in the form compute or storage grids) which delivering the end product or experience via the internet .
I think it is really as simple as that. Now there are many things that folks are delivering that we should discuss. The following figure shows how I have categorized them and also seems pretty clean. I show the continuum from classical cloud computing (search) to Platform (cloud services), Software as a Service (SaaS), and application services (Safesforce). I’d be interested in your prospective.
You can read more about this at the Dell Blog. http://direct2dell.com/cloudcomputing/archive/2008/10/22/cloud-architecture-model.aspx
Jimmy D. Pike
Distinguished Engineer / Director of System Architecture
Dell Data Center Solutions Cell : 512.917.4200
“Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.” – Edgar [Allan] Poe, American Poet
"Contrary to popular opinion, I am Not suffering from Insanity, I am thoroughly enjoying it!" - Jim Pike, Twisted Computer Architect
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niraj
If the time difference between - your application needs more capacity
and gets more capacity is greater than instantly it is not cloud
computing. i.e if there is no programmatic way to provision hardware ,
no pooled capacity and even worst a purchase order to get new
hardware.
Cloud Computing today is somewhat misunderstood as something outside
the Enterprise(the firewall) or something outsourced. This will change
with the big iron vendors selling Private Cloud products -
http://www.gandalf-lab.com/blog/2008/07/discussion-of-adoption-of-cloud.html
IMHO : Any Cloud Computing can fit into one of the four levels in the
diagram below. As you move up towards increasing virtualization - The
aspect of adding capacity and scaling up becomes more and more
transparent.
Diagram here.
http://www.gandalf-lab.com/blog/uploaded_images/Perspective-736427.jpg
On Oct 25, 7:34 pm, <Jimmy_P...@Dell.com> wrote:
> All,
> I have been doing the cloud stuff for about 2 years now and it has been
> interesting to see how it has evolved. The idea of cloud computing
> first emerged with respect to the future of the internet where the
> computing would be done elsewhere or "in the cloud". The problem we
> have is everyone has jumped on the idea of CC and is claiming whatever
> they are or have been doing is CC. Let me offer you this as my idea for
> the true definition that is really very simple.
>
> Computing Definition: Packing of computing resources (usually in the
> form compute or storage grids) which delivering the end product or
> experience via the internet .
>
> I think it is really as simple as that. Now there are many things that
> folks are delivering that we should discuss. The following figure shows
> how I have categorized them and also seems pretty clean. I show the
> continuum from classical cloud computing (search) to Platform (cloud
> services), Software as a Service (SaaS), and application services
> (Safesforce). I'd be interested in your prospective.
>
> You can read more about this at the Dell Blog.http://direct2dell.com/cloudcomputing/archive/2008/10/22/cloud-architect
> ure-model.aspx
>
> Jimmy D. Pike
> Distinguished Engineer / Director of System Architecture
> Dell Data Center Solutions Cell : 512.917.4200
>
> "Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those
> "Contrary to popular opinion, I am Not suffering from Insanity, I am
> thoroughly enjoying it!" - Jim Pike, Twisted Computer Architect
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments,
> is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
> confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
> disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
> copies of the original message.
>
> 1282KViewDownload
Ray Nugent
Ray
From: niraj <nju...@gmail.com>
To: Cloud Computing <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:41:06 PM
Subject: Re: cloud computing
Darryl Carlton
so ... putting my oar in the water, the first thing to determine is from who's perspective are we defining cloud computing.
while much of this thread has attempted to define cloud computing from various attributes of the supply side (ie: the provisioning of services) I have seen none which endeavours to define cloud computing from the customers/users perspective (consumption).
from the customers perspective a major requirement is that they do not want to know about boxes, configurations, SAN or any other device ,...... all they want to know is that they can execute business processes with an elasticity of demand appropriate to their business activity.
Cloud Computing therefore, from the customers perspective, needs to be transparent for any and all issues associated with hardware, software and configuration. The customer is concerned only with the provisioning of business services where they are charged on a purely consumption related basis (and this measure should be consumption of business services and not consumption of computing, storage or network capacity)
the architecture required to deliver this will change from time to time .... there are at the moment various technologies and vendors which provide some interesting solutions to enable Cloud Computing. Again, IMHO, they then get confused about the business model versus technical model and try and recoup the cost of the hardware based upon some notion of the configuration required to support the customer.
The consumer of Cloud Computing has no interest in what it takes to deliver that capability. If the back-end is provisioned by mongolian goat-herds running Windows for Workgroups 3.1 on a Pentium 286 .... the customer frankly doesn't care. Any effort which tries to define Cloud Computing from the perspective of the technology misses the point that this is about the customer demanding a new business model.
From the supply side we can engage in really interesting discussions about what we can do to leverage new technologies to improve the scalability and elasticity of Cloud Computing - and this conversation will evolve rapidly as new technologies are introduced. But the technologies will not redefine Cloud Computing from the perspective of the business model.
regards
Darryl Carlton
http://www.technovate.net
Darryl Carlton
email: dar...@technovate.net
blog: http://www.technovate.net
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Tarry Singh
Tarry Singh
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Tarry Singh
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ZUL KAGALWALLA
A CC is a service similar to utilities ( power, telephone, etc) where the user is billed for the utilization of the compute farm by the apps that are live on the compute farm ( storage, network, CPU).
What does mean for the success of the CC, well it has been mentioned on this forum and it is:
1. Standardization, User should be not locked into a cloud provider.
2. Standardization lead to Commoditization of CC.
3. So we come to the nirvana of CC i.e. any successful business that is meeting and exceeding customer satisfaction (stickiness) by innovation on the customer experience.
So how do CC Companies avoid what happened to DEC, Tandem, now Sun etc:
1. Stay vigilante and keep listening to the customers.
2. Get the market share, but not take it for granted.
3. Use the success of the company to focus resources on quantifiable revenue growth.
4. The company needs to be outward focused and not inwardly. You learn to innovate from real life customer experience. Have a model of paying your best customers for bringing ideas that get you more revenue.
My 2 cents.
Zul
--- On Sun, 10/26/08, niraj <nju...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ming Zhang
> My definition of cloud computing.
>
> If the time difference between - your application needs more capacity
> and gets more capacity is greater than instantly it is not cloud
how long means "instantly"? too subjective. and depends on service level
agreements anyway.
and this sounds more like "on demand computing"...
--
never so busy...
http://www.linkedin.com/in/blackmagic02881
wayne pauley
We just held the 2nd New England cloud user group and this idea of Native/Immigrant cloud and the discussion that ensued really changed my own thinking from just operational play.
Let's tackle immigrant applications first - designed to run inside the corporate silo, developed and built by vendors and IT staffs to support the business ... migrated or possibly even re-written to the cloud for "operational" efficiency and improved availablilty.
Native applications - these are designed and written to leverage the NEW things in the cloud: hyper-scaling, massive multi-core (parallelization), platform independence, autonomic (not just in sense of self-healing but also in terms of self managing and self-improving), ubiquitous access, silo-free, automated management, and able to choose to aggregate/disaggregate and leverage external services (those not developed by the application owner) on-demand.
I'm sure I missed a few of the Native features - but these are some of the ones that hold a lot of promise for changing the paradigm of computing - sort of Moore's law for the software world as we know it today.
Just some thoughts to kick the embers again ..
-w
> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:41:06 -0700
> Subject: Re: cloud computing
> From: nju...@gmail.com
> To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Jim Hollinshead
Jimmy,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and diagrams of Cloud Computing as you see it. As someone who actually sells technology, this is very helpful. In short, what Cloud Computing does is take a resource (the internet) and turn that resource into a utility, by putting services out on the edge, for easy and effective consumption by end users.
Question: Can you help me understand what VM Ware does and what part they play in the Cloud Computing Economy?
Thanks!
Jim Hollinshead
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Alan Williamson (AW1)
i agree, i think this is a beautiful definition of what *i* understand
cloud computing to be. Time is the big element in the discussion that
you are right, is often overlooked.
Ray Nugent wrote:
> Game, set, match! Yes, this accurately captures what all others
> consistently miss. The time componant. The dynamic, scaling,
> provisioning, monitoring, configuring and general availability is what
> distinguishes cloud computing from CoLo, Hosting, Virtualization, etc,
> etc. Now, where we disagree is that this can be pulled off in any but
> the largest of enterprises. You've acuratly described what I termed the
> "Fog" five months ago, however, not many enterprises will be able to
> keep the size and state of their cloud ahead the demand. Even if they
> do, Mr Applications VP will see that an internal cloud drops him from
> 1.7x to 1.1x Frys and now he wants 0.5x Frys. Enter the Real Cloud...
>
> Ray
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* niraj <nju...@gmail.com>
> *To:* Cloud Computing <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:41:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: cloud computing
>
>
> My definition of cloud computing.
>
> If the time difference between - your application needs more capacity
> and gets more capacity is greater than instantly it is not cloud
> computing. i.e if there is no programmatic way to provision hardware ,
> no pooled capacity and even worst a purchase order to get new
> hardware.
>
> Cloud Computing today is somewhat misunderstood as something outside
> the Enterprise(the firewall) or something outsourced. This will change
> with the big iron vendors selling Private Cloud products -
> http://www.gandalf-lab.com/blog/2008/07/discussion-of-adoption-of-cloud.html
>
> IMHO : Any Cloud Computing can fit into one of the four levels in the
> diagram below. As you move up towards increasing virtualization - The
> aspect of adding capacity and scaling up becomes more and more
> transparent.
>
> Diagram here.
>
> http://www.gandalf-lab.com/blog/uploaded_images/Perspective-736427.jpg
--
AW2.0 Ltd - The Cloud Experts
web http://www.aw20.co.uk/
blog http://www.aw20.co.uk/news.cfm
ZUL KAGALWALLA
Also business models will change to adapt the cloud computing technologies available, agreed new CC technologies will not redefine the business model, but allow the adaptation of CC technologies and entrepreneurs will create new business models to take advantage of CC. So, in turn to certain extent the new cc technologies will have direct impact on the business model of the companies who do not embrace new technologies.
Zul
--- On Sun, 10/26/08, Darryl Carlton <dar...@technovate.net> wrote:
JL Valente
I beg to differ somewhat.
Sure cloud computing is both a business and a technology changing game for IT and therefore the technology is not the only concern. As there are many different cloud computing tiers from a service standpoint ranging from hardware as a service to application as a service there are many different types of users with different types of (business or technical) problems to solve.
In the end does the energy expanded by some in defining cloud computing not be better spent in devising systems, artifacts and technology that advance the art of cloud computing? It is the wild wide west out there on so many fronts when it comes to CC. Let the historians or academics define and debate it retrospectively and the pioneers and leaders build it as they envision it dynamically.
Maybe I am unfair but I think many silent voices on this group rather make CC happen and discuss those issues than comment on what happened to CC.
From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun Oct 26 02:32:22 2008
Subject: Re: cloud computing
so ... putting my oar in the water, the first thing to determine is from who's perspective are we defining cloud computing.
while much of this thread has attempted to define cloud computing from various attributes of the supply side (ie: the provisioning of services) I have seen none which endeavours to define cloud computing from the customers/users perspective (consumption).
from the customers perspective a major requirement is that they do not want to know about boxes, configurations, SAN or any other device ,...... all they want to know is that they can execute business processes with an elasticity of demand appropriate to their business activity.
Cloud Computing therefore, from the customers perspective, needs to be transparent for any and all issues associated with hardware, software and configuration. The customer is concerned only with the provisioning of business services where they are charged on a purely consumption related basis (and this measure should be consumption of business services and not consumption of computing, storage or network capacity)
the architecture required to deliver this will change from time to time .... there are at the moment various technologies and vendors which provide some interesting solutions to enable Cloud Computing. Again, IMHO, they then get confused about the business model versus technical model and try and recoup the cost of the hardware based upon some notion of the configuration required to support the customer.
The consumer of Cloud Computing has no interest in what it takes to deliver that capability. If the back-end is provisioned by mongolian goat-herds running Windows for Workgroups 3.1 on a Pentium 286 .... the customer frankly doesn't care. Any effort which tries to define Cloud Computing from the perspective of the technology misses the point that this is about the customer demanding a new business model.
From the supply side we can engage in really interesting discussions about what we can do to leverage new technologies to improve the scalability and elasticity of Cloud Computing - and this conversation will evolve rapidly as new technologies are introduced. But the technologies will not redefine Cloud Computing from the perspective of the business model.
regards
Darryl Carlton
http://www.technovate.net
Jimmy...@Dell.com wrote:
All,
I have been doing the cloud stuff for about 2 years now and it has been interesting to see how it has evolved. The idea of cloud computing first emerged with respect to the future of the internet where the computing would be done elsewhere or “in the cloud”. The problem we have is everyone has jumped on the idea of CC and is claiming whatever they are or have been doing is CC. Let me offer you this as my idea for the true definition that is really very simple.
Computing Definition: Packing of computing resources (usually in the form compute or storage grids) which delivering the end product or experience via the internet .
I think it is really as simple as that. Now there are many things that folks are delivering that we should discuss. The following figure shows how I have categorized them and also seems pretty clean. I show the continuum from classical cloud computing (search) to Platform (cloud services), Software as a Service (SaaS), and application services (Safesforce). I’d be interested in your prospective.
You can read more about this at the Dell Blog. http://direct2dell.com/cloudcomputing/archive/2008/10/22/cloud-architecture-model.aspx
Jimmy D. Pike
Distinguished Engineer / Director of System Architecture
Dell Data Center Solutions Cell : 512.917.4200
“Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.” – Edgar [Allan] Poe, American Poet
"Contrary to popular opinion, I am Not suffering from Insanity, I am thoroughly enjoying it!" - Jim Pike, Twisted Computer Architect
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
Darryl Carlton
email: dar...@technovate.net
blog: http://www.technovate.net
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke, 1770) ________________________________________________________________________
DISCLAIMER This message and/or attached documents may contain confidential and privileged information and should only be read by those persons to whom this message is addressed. This message is copyright to CTO Pty Ltd and disclosure,copying or forwarding this message and attachments without the owner's approval is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender via return email and delete the original message from any computer. Thank you for your co-operation.
Ray Nugent
From: JL Valente <jlva...@cittio.com>
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:33:07 AM
Subject: Re: cloud computing
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Tarry Singh
Question: Can you help me understand what VM Ware does and what part they play in the Cloud Computing Economy?
Comprende?
Tarry
Jim Hollinshead
Si’ comprende, Tarry.
Thanks…
Rich Wellner
At some level I'm finding it hard to believe that we are still defining the beast - but I'm sure over time the market will really determine what the right definition and segmentation will turn out to be ...
rw2
Tarry Singh
Niraj Juneja
on - "now he wants 0.5x Frys. Enter the Real Cloud..."
I see the war between Private Cloud and the real-cloud as you say it, similar to the war of the currents AC(alternating current) versus DC(direct current) . AC ultimately won for the obvious reason that the AC model could scale and was more efficient. But Edison did have some early wins with the FUDS he was spreading around - AC being a security hazard.
You will see similar kind of FUDS in relation to Data Security Hazards by the Big Iron Vendors who want to sell private clouds , in the long run it will be the Real Cloud that takes over. But we still will have to live with a cycle of Private Clouds in the market.
Cheers
Niraj
Blog: http://www.gandalf-lab.com
web: http://www.webscalesolutions.com