Google Chrome OS - The so expected and speculated (Cloud) OS
5 views
Skip to first unread message
Paulo Calcada
Jul 8, 2009, 9:26:10 AM7/8/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
A couple of months ago I have written a short post about how amazing the new Palm WEB OS is and how their engineers (marketeers, developers, etc ) have captured so well the essence of the Cloud Computing Paradigm (http://www.cloudviews.org/2009/01/squeeze-the-cloud-to-fit-into-your-hand/).
When Google introduced the Chrome browser. A broad discussion about it and about how it could be transformed in the OS of the cloud emerged, without a great surprise Google introduced yesterday their plans to the Google Chrome OS.
Apparently this new Os is a real OS, based on Linux, it's not a browser working as a sandbox for Cloud Application (Cloud OS) but I've no doubts that it will be a major step forward in the Cloud Computing paradigm.
The Web OS from Palm has a large set of features that they should use as example, but there is one important thing that they must have - the platform should be as open as the web. If Google would have any kind of temptation to close this new Chrome OS on their platform (GDOcs, Gmail, etc, ) they will definitely end with their foot on moving sands and they will sink..
When Google introduced the Chrome browser. A broad discussion about it and about how it could be transformed in the OS of the cloud emerged, without a great surprise Google introduced yesterday their plans to the Google Chrome OS.
Apparently this new Os is a real OS, based on Linux, it's not a browser working as a sandbox for Cloud Application (Cloud OS) but I've no doubts that it will be a major step forward in the Cloud Computing paradigm.
The Web OS from Palm has a large set of features that they should use as example, but there is one important thing that they must have - the platform should be as open as the web. If Google would have any kind of temptation to close this new Chrome OS on their platform (GDOcs, Gmail, etc, ) they will definitely end with their foot on moving sands and they will sink..
eprpa...@gmail.com
Jul 8, 2009, 11:50:04 AM7/8/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Paulo,
Let me get this straight, and tell me where I am wrong.NCD introduced a
"thin client" back in 1988 (as I recall it was partially funded by
Ellison). So how is Google's announcement of the Chrome OS or even that
of Palm so much more important to Cloud Computing? In my personal
opinion we need to stop with the hype, do a little research and put
things in perspective.
Now granted the NCD platform wasn't open, but is that really the
definition of cloud computing? The client has to be open? If that is the
case then things like Citrix et al don't fit the bill and neither does
the like of VMWare.
Chance
Let me get this straight, and tell me where I am wrong.NCD introduced a
"thin client" back in 1988 (as I recall it was partially funded by
Ellison). So how is Google's announcement of the Chrome OS or even that
of Palm so much more important to Cloud Computing? In my personal
opinion we need to stop with the hype, do a little research and put
things in perspective.
Now granted the NCD platform wasn't open, but is that really the
definition of cloud computing? The client has to be open? If that is the
case then things like Citrix et al don't fit the bill and neither does
the like of VMWare.
Chance
Paulo Calcada
Jul 9, 2009, 5:08:35 AM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Hello,
I have to admit that this type of short post could transmit the idea of a follow-the-hype initiative, but that was not the intention.
First, I have to clarify on what part of Cloud Computing I was talking about. As I've written here (http://www.cloudviews.org/2008/12/cloud-computing-the-internet-becomes-our-computer/) that the SaaS layer is the one, in my perspective, that could have more relevance to the user's daily work or in the user's perspective of the Cloud. And it's precisely there where I think that products such as the Google Chrome OS and the Palm WEBOS could have a strong impact. Not because they are thin clients to access the Cloud but because they will put the cloud working for users.
The perfect sandbox or ecosystem for SaaS applications is the web browser, but because its development is so dependent on the development of the underlying OS, I think that having both developed in an integrated way could be a major step forward.
To be able to have a perfect Could OS we still need to develop simple things as:
- a web clipboard: I've introduced some ideas here:http://www.cloudviews.org/2009/02/the-internet-command-prompt-and-maybe-the-internet-clipboard/
- better offline modes, using HTML5 or Google Gears tools
- better Identity selectors (or digital wallet): I'm working on a short post about it, I hope to have it available soon.
Those are simple examples that I think could be easily developed if they are built in a integrated way.
It's obvious that in a commercial perspective, and being Google one of the top developers on the SaaS market, to have a complete Could ecosystem is something that they would love to have, and it's precisely here that they should be careful and try not to close this platform and make it only available to their products. Taking the VMware (Virtualization) example, don't forget that we are now trying to discussed which Virtual Machine Open Format is more suitable to prevent the vendor lock-in problem.
Thanks Paulo
I have to admit that this type of short post could transmit the idea of a follow-the-hype initiative, but that was not the intention.
First, I have to clarify on what part of Cloud Computing I was talking about. As I've written here (http://www.cloudviews.org/2008/12/cloud-computing-the-internet-becomes-our-computer/) that the SaaS layer is the one, in my perspective, that could have more relevance to the user's daily work or in the user's perspective of the Cloud. And it's precisely there where I think that products such as the Google Chrome OS and the Palm WEBOS could have a strong impact. Not because they are thin clients to access the Cloud but because they will put the cloud working for users.
The perfect sandbox or ecosystem for SaaS applications is the web browser, but because its development is so dependent on the development of the underlying OS, I think that having both developed in an integrated way could be a major step forward.
To be able to have a perfect Could OS we still need to develop simple things as:
- a web clipboard: I've introduced some ideas here:http://www.cloudviews.org/2009/02/the-internet-command-prompt-and-maybe-the-internet-clipboard/
- better offline modes, using HTML5 or Google Gears tools
- better Identity selectors (or digital wallet): I'm working on a short post about it, I hope to have it available soon.
Those are simple examples that I think could be easily developed if they are built in a integrated way.
It's obvious that in a commercial perspective, and being Google one of the top developers on the SaaS market, to have a complete Could ecosystem is something that they would love to have, and it's precisely here that they should be careful and try not to close this platform and make it only available to their products. Taking the VMware (Virtualization) example, don't forget that we are now trying to discussed which Virtual Machine Open Format is more suitable to prevent the vendor lock-in problem.
Thanks Paulo
2009/7/8 <eprpa...@gmail.com>
Sachin Duggal
Jul 9, 2009, 11:09:36 AM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Haven’t we seen this all before – the online desktops of the web 1 web 2 (and web 3) worlds... what were often just a gui on storage with some semi useful apps – no real competition for a full desktop.
Are people actually going to boot up into anything other than a MAC or Windows OS? Are all the ISVs in the world going to re-write code ? what about the multi-billion dollar r&d they have already paid for?
What is cloud computing??
- Delivering the app over the internet or executing it in the internet?
To me it’s the former; if so, then surely the VDI / SBC route with better scaling, better protocol and true “in the cloud” cloud computing will be more useful? One of the things we noticed is that a lot of these ajax / web 2/3 apps used a huge amount of processor locally – why? Simple – the execution is happening locally for over 80% of the load and only the storage is kept remote and delivery of apps is over the internet.
Why can’t they execute it in the cloud?
They may do some logic at the server end but take excel as a potential web app – would you send the formula back to the server every time and then wait for it to execute and then receive the data back to display– wow imagine the latency when average round trip on cloud to home or smb is about 100ms – it would take over a quarter of a second to computer 1+1 ? that is on a good day!
In full disclosure – nivio (where I am CEO and Co-Founder) has a different take on cloud (we are both cloud computing and cloud delivery (more to come!)) – we believe it is about giving the users (and we are now talking consumer and small business not enterprise) an experience they know and understand but without any complexity and where the windows is “executing” in the cloud...
In my humble opinion the real development needs to be to make a real citrix/TS server that can actually work natively on the internet and not be patched with one zillion tools and plugins...
Sorry for the ramble.
Sachin Duggal
Derek Sedlack
Jul 9, 2009, 1:09:47 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Like the initial move to GUI from DOS, Web from GUI, CC from Web…?
Derek
Paulo Calcada
Jul 9, 2009, 1:12:35 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Hello Sachin, yes it's true, we have seen it before, but the difference is that the previous versions were not ready to be used, the technologies were not on the point that they are nowadays.As an example is the HTML 5 and all the power that it will give to future web applications.
I'm not saying that this kind of application are already ready to be used by the may stream users, but we are on the right path, definitely we are on it :)....
I'll read the reaming part of your message with attention, and I'll reply with more detail after that..
I'm not saying that this kind of application are already ready to be used by the may stream users, but we are on the right path, definitely we are on it :)....
I'll read the reaming part of your message with attention, and I'll reply with more detail after that..
2009/7/9 Sachin Duggal <sdu...@nivio.com>
Paulo Calcada
Jul 9, 2009, 1:14:43 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Yes, definitely.. that example completely illustrates whats is going happening now. Don't blame the CC paradigm if it doesn't happen this time, but sooner or later we will have a completely Cloud enable desktop. :)
2009/7/9 Derek Sedlack <dsed...@gmail.com>
Sachin Duggal
Jul 9, 2009, 1:13:42 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Hey derek didn't quite understand
From: "Derek Sedlack"
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 13:09:47 -0400
Sachin Duggal
Nivio
Sent from myWorld Mobile Messenger...
From: "Derek Sedlack"
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 13:09:47 -0400
eprpa...@gmail.com
Jul 9, 2009, 1:15:13 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Argh...Do some research and check out NDS! In 1988 they had the times'
version of Chrome OS! Nothing new under the sun but hype and BS.
C.
Derek Sedlack wrote:
> Like the initial move to GUI from DOS, Web from GUI, CC from Web…?
>
>
>
> Derek
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sachin Duggal
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM
> *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected
> [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Paulo Calcada
> *Sent:* 09 July 2009 10:09 AM
> *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected
> 2009/7/8 <eprpa...@gmail.com <mailto:eprpa...@gmail.com>>
version of Chrome OS! Nothing new under the sun but hype and BS.
C.
Derek Sedlack wrote:
> Like the initial move to GUI from DOS, Web from GUI, CC from Web…?
>
>
>
> Derek
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sachin Duggal
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM
> *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected
> and speculated (Cloud) OS
>
>
>
> Guys
>
>
>
> Haven’t we seen this all before – the online desktops of the web 1 web 2
> (and web 3) worlds... what were often just a gui on storage with some
> semi useful apps – no real competition for a full desktop.
>
>
>
> Are people actually going to boot up into anything other than a MAC or
> Windows OS? Are all the ISVs in the world going to re-write code ? what
> about the multi-billion dollar r&d they have already paid for?
>
>
>
> *What is cloud computing??*
>
>
>
> Guys
>
>
>
> Haven’t we seen this all before – the online desktops of the web 1 web 2
> (and web 3) worlds... what were often just a gui on storage with some
> semi useful apps – no real competition for a full desktop.
>
>
>
> Are people actually going to boot up into anything other than a MAC or
> Windows OS? Are all the ISVs in the world going to re-write code ? what
> about the multi-billion dollar r&d they have already paid for?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Delivering the app over the internet or executing it in the
> internet?
>
>
>
> To me it’s the former; if so, then surely the VDI / SBC route with
> better scaling, better protocol and true “in the cloud” cloud computing
> will be more useful? One of the things we noticed is that a lot of these
> ajax / web 2/3 apps used a huge amount of processor locally – why?
> Simple – *the execution is happening locally* for over 80% of the load
>
>
> - Delivering the app over the internet or executing it in the
> internet?
>
>
>
> To me it’s the former; if so, then surely the VDI / SBC route with
> better scaling, better protocol and true “in the cloud” cloud computing
> will be more useful? One of the things we noticed is that a lot of these
> ajax / web 2/3 apps used a huge amount of processor locally – why?
> and only the storage is kept remote and delivery of apps is over the
> internet.
>
>
>
> *Why can’t they execute it in the cloud?*
> internet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> They may do some logic at the server end but take excel as a potential
> web app – would you send the formula back to the server every time and
> then wait for it to execute and then receive the data back to display–
> wow imagine the latency when average round trip on cloud to home or smb
> is about 100ms – it would take over a quarter of a second to computer
> 1+1 ? that is on a good day!
>
>
>
> In full disclosure – nivio (where I am CEO and Co-Founder) has a
> different take on cloud (we are both cloud computing and cloud delivery
> (more to come!)) – we believe it is about giving the users (and we are
> now talking consumer and small business not enterprise) an experience
> they know and understand but without any complexity and where the
> windows is “executing” in the cloud...
>
>
>
> In my humble opinion the real development needs to be to make a real
> citrix/TS server that can actually work natively on the internet and not
> be patched with one zillion tools and plugins...
>
>
>
> Sorry for the ramble.
>
>
>
> Sachin Duggal
>
>
>
> *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
>
>
> They may do some logic at the server end but take excel as a potential
> web app – would you send the formula back to the server every time and
> then wait for it to execute and then receive the data back to display–
> wow imagine the latency when average round trip on cloud to home or smb
> is about 100ms – it would take over a quarter of a second to computer
> 1+1 ? that is on a good day!
>
>
>
> In full disclosure – nivio (where I am CEO and Co-Founder) has a
> different take on cloud (we are both cloud computing and cloud delivery
> (more to come!)) – we believe it is about giving the users (and we are
> now talking consumer and small business not enterprise) an experience
> they know and understand but without any complexity and where the
> windows is “executing” in the cloud...
>
>
>
> In my humble opinion the real development needs to be to make a real
> citrix/TS server that can actually work natively on the internet and not
> be patched with one zillion tools and plugins...
>
>
>
> Sorry for the ramble.
>
>
>
> Sachin Duggal
>
>
>
> [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Paulo Calcada
> *Sent:* 09 July 2009 10:09 AM
> *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected
eprpa...@gmail.com
Jul 9, 2009, 1:17:23 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
If you believe that I have a bridge in NYC to sell you. In 1988 NDS had
just the same thing. The only difference was no HTML and no browser. But
we had X and windowing systems. So if you needed a thin client into a
server it was there.
Chrome OS is just the same old OS with the same old Window interface
with just the addition of a web browser this time.
C.
Paulo Calcada wrote:
> Hello Sachin, yes it's true, we have seen it before, but the difference
> is that the previous versions were not ready to be used, the
> technologies were not on the point that they are nowadays.As an example
> is the HTML 5 and all the power that it will give to future web
> applications.
>
> I'm not saying that this kind of application are already ready to be
> used by the may stream users, but we are on the right path, definitely
> we are on it :)....
>
> I'll read the reaming part of your message with attention, and I'll
> reply with more detail after that..
>
>
> 2009/7/9 Sachin Duggal <sdu...@nivio.com <mailto:sdu...@nivio.com>>
> *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so
> 2009/7/8 <eprpa...@gmail.com <mailto:eprpa...@gmail.com>>
just the same thing. The only difference was no HTML and no browser. But
we had X and windowing systems. So if you needed a thin client into a
server it was there.
Chrome OS is just the same old OS with the same old Window interface
with just the addition of a web browser this time.
C.
Paulo Calcada wrote:
> Hello Sachin, yes it's true, we have seen it before, but the difference
> is that the previous versions were not ready to be used, the
> technologies were not on the point that they are nowadays.As an example
> is the HTML 5 and all the power that it will give to future web
> applications.
>
> I'm not saying that this kind of application are already ready to be
> used by the may stream users, but we are on the right path, definitely
> we are on it :)....
>
> I'll read the reaming part of your message with attention, and I'll
> reply with more detail after that..
>
>
>
> Guys
>
>
>
> Haven’t we seen this all before – the online desktops of the web 1
> web 2 (and web 3) worlds... what were often just a gui on storage
> with some semi useful apps – no real competition for a full desktop.
>
>
>
> Are people actually going to boot up into anything other than a MAC
> or Windows OS? Are all the ISVs in the world going to re-write code
> ? what about the multi-billion dollar r&d they have already paid for?
>
>
>
> *What is cloud computing??*
> Guys
>
>
>
> Haven’t we seen this all before – the online desktops of the web 1
> web 2 (and web 3) worlds... what were often just a gui on storage
> with some semi useful apps – no real competition for a full desktop.
>
>
>
> Are people actually going to boot up into anything other than a MAC
> or Windows OS? Are all the ISVs in the world going to re-write code
> ? what about the multi-billion dollar r&d they have already paid for?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Delivering the app over the internet or executing it in
> the internet?
>
>
>
> To me it’s the former; if so, then surely the VDI / SBC route with
> better scaling, better protocol and true “in the cloud” cloud
> computing will be more useful? One of the things we noticed is that
> a lot of these ajax / web 2/3 apps used a huge amount of processor
> locally – why? Simple – *the execution is happening locally* for
>
>
> - Delivering the app over the internet or executing it in
> the internet?
>
>
>
> To me it’s the former; if so, then surely the VDI / SBC route with
> better scaling, better protocol and true “in the cloud” cloud
> computing will be more useful? One of the things we noticed is that
> a lot of these ajax / web 2/3 apps used a huge amount of processor
> over 80% of the load and only the storage is kept remote and
> delivery of apps is over the internet.
>
>
>
> *Why can’t they execute it in the cloud?*
> delivery of apps is over the internet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> They may do some logic at the server end but take excel as a
> potential web app – would you send the formula back to the server
> every time and then wait for it to execute and then receive the data
> back to display– wow imagine the latency when average round trip on
> cloud to home or smb is about 100ms – it would take over a quarter
> of a second to computer 1+1 ? that is on a good day!
>
>
>
> In full disclosure – nivio (where I am CEO and Co-Founder) has a
> different take on cloud (we are both cloud computing and cloud
> delivery (more to come!)) – we believe it is about giving the users
> (and we are now talking consumer and small business not enterprise)
> an experience they know and understand but without any complexity
> and where the windows is “executing” in the cloud...
>
>
>
> In my humble opinion the real development needs to be to make a real
> citrix/TS server that can actually work natively on the internet and
> not be patched with one zillion tools and plugins...
>
>
>
> Sorry for the ramble.
>
>
>
> Sachin Duggal
>
>
>
> [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
>
>
> They may do some logic at the server end but take excel as a
> potential web app – would you send the formula back to the server
> every time and then wait for it to execute and then receive the data
> back to display– wow imagine the latency when average round trip on
> cloud to home or smb is about 100ms – it would take over a quarter
> of a second to computer 1+1 ? that is on a good day!
>
>
>
> In full disclosure – nivio (where I am CEO and Co-Founder) has a
> different take on cloud (we are both cloud computing and cloud
> delivery (more to come!)) – we believe it is about giving the users
> (and we are now talking consumer and small business not enterprise)
> an experience they know and understand but without any complexity
> and where the windows is “executing” in the cloud...
>
>
>
> In my humble opinion the real development needs to be to make a real
> citrix/TS server that can actually work natively on the internet and
> not be patched with one zillion tools and plugins...
>
>
>
> Sorry for the ramble.
>
>
>
> Sachin Duggal
>
>
>
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Paulo Calcada
> *Sent:* 09 July 2009 10:09 AM
> *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so
Paulo Calcada
Jul 9, 2009, 1:27:50 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Derek Sedlack
Jul 9, 2009, 1:43:23 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Just that any time a potentially disruptive technology appears everyone starts with, “it would be way too expensive to adopt because of re-working”, but there is always a leading-edge, if not bleeding-edge company willing to find the ROI it not required by market forces (given the usefulness of the new technology).
Jim Starkey
Jul 9, 2009, 1:51:38 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
eprpa...@gmail.com wrote:
Argh...Do some research and check out NDS! In 1988 they had the times' version of Chrome OS! Nothing new under the sun but hype and BS.
NDS? A three letter acronym from 1988? Break us a give....
Here are the choices from Wikipedia:
Could we put a total ban on TLAs (three letter acronyms)? Spell it out the first time and abbreviate later. A few more keystrokes won't hurt that much.
ACID, of course, is an FLA, something completely different. But FLA! The first violation of the TLA rule!
Here are the choices from Wikipedia:
Is it one of these? Or something else?NDS is an initialism may stand for:
- Low German (German: Niederdeutsche Sprache, ISO 639-2 language code: NDS), a regional language spoken in the north of Germany and the northeast of the Netherlands
- Lower Saxony (German: Niedersachsen)
- NDS Group, a news corporation subsidiary specializing in television technology, including digital rights management
- NDS is also used as shorthand for Videoguard, the encryption system created by NDS Group
- National Directorate of Security (Afghanistan), an Afghan government agency
- Nintendo DS, a portable game system by Nintendo
- Novell eDirectory, formerly Novell Directory Services, directory service software for a network
- Nuclear Detection System, a system to detect the blast of a nuclear device
- New Data Seal, an encryption algorithm
- NDS, Inc, a producer of plastic drainage products
- Non-drive side, a cycling term for the left side of a bicycle
- Nouvelle Démocratie Sociale
- Short for Network Data Systems, an IT professional services firm
- Nickname for Nick Dal Santo. Australian Rules Footballer
Could we put a total ban on TLAs (three letter acronyms)? Spell it out the first time and abbreviate later. A few more keystrokes won't hurt that much.
ACID, of course, is an FLA, something completely different. But FLA! The first violation of the TLA rule!
-- Jim Starkey President, NimbusDB, Inc. 978 526-1376
eprpa...@gmail.com
Jul 9, 2009, 1:56:35 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Let's see...Chrome OS is a thin client to the "cloud". NDS was a thin
client to the "cloud" of the time (remember the Network is the
Computer?) Chrome OS has a WUI (windowing user interface) and so did
NDS. I could gone on, but I won't.
Chrome OS is a BIG SO WHAT! Heck, you can even go back to Trix (at MIT
in the early 80s and the work of other guys) that had built the concept
of "cloud" computing in the OS. We need to stop all this "Chrome OS" is
so new and cool and do a little research and investigation. You will
find nothing new here.
There are few really new things in computing. We've had HTML and the
web. We had Ethernet. I'm sure there are others out there but Chrome OS
isn't one of them.
C.
Paulo Calcada wrote:
> Sorry but I'm not understanding now. Which are the real resemblances?
>
> 2009/7/9 <eprpa...@gmail.com <mailto:eprpa...@gmail.com>>
> > [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:eprpa...@gmail.com <mailto:eprpa...@gmail.com>>>
client to the "cloud" of the time (remember the Network is the
Computer?) Chrome OS has a WUI (windowing user interface) and so did
NDS. I could gone on, but I won't.
Chrome OS is a BIG SO WHAT! Heck, you can even go back to Trix (at MIT
in the early 80s and the work of other guys) that had built the concept
of "cloud" computing in the OS. We need to stop all this "Chrome OS" is
so new and cool and do a little research and investigation. You will
find nothing new here.
There are few really new things in computing. We've had HTML and the
web. We had Ethernet. I'm sure there are others out there but Chrome OS
isn't one of them.
C.
Paulo Calcada wrote:
> Sorry but I'm not understanding now. Which are the real resemblances?
>
>
>
> Argh...Do some research and check out NDS! In 1988 they had the times'
> version of Chrome OS! Nothing new under the sun but hype and BS.
>
> C.
>
> Derek Sedlack wrote:
> > Like the initial move to GUI from DOS, Web from GUI, CC from Web…?
> >
> >
> >
> > Derek
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> > [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
>
> Argh...Do some research and check out NDS! In 1988 they had the times'
> version of Chrome OS! Nothing new under the sun but hype and BS.
>
> C.
>
> Derek Sedlack wrote:
> > Like the initial move to GUI from DOS, Web from GUI, CC from Web…?
> >
> >
> >
> > Derek
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Sachin Duggal
> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM
> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM
> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Paulo Calcada
> > *Sent:* 09 July 2009 10:09 AM
> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> > *Sent:* 09 July 2009 10:09 AM
> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Jim Starkey
Jul 9, 2009, 2:34:50 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
eprpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> Let's see...Chrome OS is a thin client to the "cloud". NDS was a thin
> client to the "cloud" of the time (remember the Network is the
> Computer?) Chrome OS has a WUI (windowing user interface) and so did
> NDS. I could gone on, but I won't.
>
> Chrome OS is a BIG SO WHAT! Heck, you can even go back to Trix (at MIT
> in the early 80s and the work of other guys) that had built the concept
> of "cloud" computing in the OS. We need to stop all this "Chrome OS" is
> so new and cool and do a little research and investigation. You will
> find nothing new here.
>
> There are few really new things in computing. We've had HTML and the
> web. We had Ethernet. I'm sure there are others out there but Chrome OS
> isn't one of them.
>
>
> Let's see...Chrome OS is a thin client to the "cloud". NDS was a thin
> client to the "cloud" of the time (remember the Network is the
> Computer?) Chrome OS has a WUI (windowing user interface) and so did
> NDS. I could gone on, but I won't.
>
> Chrome OS is a BIG SO WHAT! Heck, you can even go back to Trix (at MIT
> in the early 80s and the work of other guys) that had built the concept
> of "cloud" computing in the OS. We need to stop all this "Chrome OS" is
> so new and cool and do a little research and investigation. You will
> find nothing new here.
>
> There are few really new things in computing. We've had HTML and the
> web. We had Ethernet. I'm sure there are others out there but Chrome OS
> isn't one of them.
>
>
Aren't you taking a fairly harsh view on new technology? Rejecting
something sight unseen at the early leak stage is pretty extreme... You
might as well argue that Google search is essentially the same as Alta
Vista, so who needs it? Or that a 2.8 GHz quad core super scalar 64 bit
processor is only a variation on the theme of a 386 or even 286.
Putting technology aside, wouldn't the economics of free OS have a
significant effect on the landscape? Yes, Linux desktop is free and
enjoyed by 2% of the Internet population, but is an administration
nightmare. A small, nimble, extensible OS that leaves a legacy of small
memory, FAT, DOS emulation, and near infinite backward compatibility
just might be refreshing. Bare bones at first, maybe, but extensible
into respectable platform, diverging from Linux as not having to be all
things to all folks.
I'm as cynical as the next guy having watched Apple lose market share
despite a clearly happier user community. But give Google the benefit
of the doubt at least until they've shown the product (if it actually
exists).
And I'm bewildered on why you would choose memcached over a hypothetic
ACID solution with equivalent cost, availability and performance. If
there are lot of folks like you, I've wasted a lot of time and money on
NimbusDB. But I don't think there are...
Pietrasanta, Mark
Jul 9, 2009, 3:14:12 PM7/9/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
I think I still have a Gigabyte motherboard that has an optional boot-instantly into a browser-only (+network) firmware. I can browse to any site, it's just missing some advanced stuff like flash and other advanced capabilities, but it's basically the same thing.
Nothing new here at all.
The bigger question is - why is it taking Google until "late-2010" to release it?
> > Like the initial move to GUI from DOS, Web from GUI, CC from Web...?
> > Simple - *the execution is happening locally* for over 80% of the load
> > then wait for it to execute and then receive the data back to display-
Nothing new here at all.
The bigger question is - why is it taking Google until "late-2010" to release it?
> >
> >
> >
> > Derek
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> > [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Sachin Duggal
> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM
> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> > *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected
> > and speculated (Cloud) OS
> >
> >
> >
> > Guys
> >
> >
> >
> > Haven't we seen this all before - the online desktops of the web 1
> >
> >
> > Derek
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> > [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Sachin Duggal
> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM
> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> > *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected
> > and speculated (Cloud) OS
> >
> >
> >
> > Guys
> >
> >
> >
> web 2
> > (and web 3) worlds... what were often just a gui on storage with some
> > semi useful apps - no real competition for a full desktop.
> > (and web 3) worlds... what were often just a gui on storage with some
> >
> >
> >
> > Are people actually going to boot up into anything other than a MAC or
> > Windows OS? Are all the ISVs in the world going to re-write code ?
> what
> > about the multi-billion dollar r&d they have already paid for?
> >
> >
> >
> > *What is cloud computing??*
> >
> >
> >
> > - Delivering the app over the internet or executing it in the
> > internet?
> >
> >
> >
> > To me it's the former; if so, then surely the VDI / SBC route with
> > better scaling, better protocol and true "in the cloud" cloud
> computing
> > will be more useful? One of the things we noticed is that a lot of
> these
> > ajax / web 2/3 apps used a huge amount of processor locally - why?
> >
> >
> > Are people actually going to boot up into anything other than a MAC or
> > Windows OS? Are all the ISVs in the world going to re-write code ?
> what
> > about the multi-billion dollar r&d they have already paid for?
> >
> >
> >
> > *What is cloud computing??*
> >
> >
> >
> > - Delivering the app over the internet or executing it in the
> > internet?
> >
> >
> >
> > To me it's the former; if so, then surely the VDI / SBC route with
> > better scaling, better protocol and true "in the cloud" cloud
> computing
> > will be more useful? One of the things we noticed is that a lot of
> these
> > Simple - *the execution is happening locally* for over 80% of the load
> > and only the storage is kept remote and delivery of apps is over the
> > internet.
> >
> >
> >
> > *Why can't they execute it in the cloud?*
> >
> >
> >
> > They may do some logic at the server end but take excel as a potential
> > web app - would you send the formula back to the server every time and
> > internet.
> >
> >
> >
> > *Why can't they execute it in the cloud?*
> >
> >
> >
> > They may do some logic at the server end but take excel as a potential
> > then wait for it to execute and then receive the data back to display-
> > wow imagine the latency when average round trip on cloud to home
> or smb
> > is about 100ms - it would take over a quarter of a second to computer
> or smb
> > 1+1 ? that is on a good day!
> >
> >
> >
> > In full disclosure - nivio (where I am CEO and Co-Founder) has a
> >
> >
> >
> > different take on cloud (we are both cloud computing and cloud
> delivery
> > (more to come!)) - we believe it is about giving the users (and we are
> delivery
Barbara
Jul 10, 2009, 1:08:05 PM7/10/09
to Cloud Computing
All,
I think Google is excellent position to offer a competitive stable
"good enough" generic operating system. I hope they remain committed
to it. It is an excellent thing for the market place. I personally
want to be able to choose the OS/Web for my PCs, phone, TV and car
(does it make any sense care nav. systems are proprietary anymore?)
I fully expect Google to after Microsoft performance, stability,
manageability and security gaps and do it a a lower cost---which
hopefully will drive Microsoft to better software engineering.
As far as the conventional Windows terminal services players go with
thin client, perhaps they offer some real competition as well, however
they in many way appear to be stuck in their ways. I think they are
layering bells and whistles over old server side stuff.
And I wonder what will happen to Apple with all of this.
Barbara Bour
On Jul 9, 3:14 pm, "Pietrasanta, Mark" <Mark.Pietrasa...@aquilent.com>
wrote:
> > (http://www.cloudviews.org/2008/12/cloud-computing-the-internet-become...)
> > <mailto:eprparad...@gmail.com <mailto:eprparad...@gmail.com>>>
>
> read more »
I think Google is excellent position to offer a competitive stable
"good enough" generic operating system. I hope they remain committed
to it. It is an excellent thing for the market place. I personally
want to be able to choose the OS/Web for my PCs, phone, TV and car
(does it make any sense care nav. systems are proprietary anymore?)
I fully expect Google to after Microsoft performance, stability,
manageability and security gaps and do it a a lower cost---which
hopefully will drive Microsoft to better software engineering.
As far as the conventional Windows terminal services players go with
thin client, perhaps they offer some real competition as well, however
they in many way appear to be stuck in their ways. I think they are
layering bells and whistles over old server side stuff.
And I wonder what will happen to Apple with all of this.
Barbara Bour
On Jul 9, 3:14 pm, "Pietrasanta, Mark" <Mark.Pietrasa...@aquilent.com>
wrote:
> I think I still have a Gigabyte motherboard that has an optional boot-instantly into a browser-only (+network) firmware. I can browse to any site, it's just missing some advanced stuff like flash and other advanced capabilities, but it's basically the same thing.
>
> Nothing new here at all.
>
> The bigger question is - why is it taking Google until "late-2010" to release it?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eprparad...@gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:57 PM
> To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected and speculated (Cloud) OS
>
> Let's see...Chrome OS is a thin client to the "cloud". NDS was a thin
> client to the "cloud" of the time (remember the Network is the
> Computer?) Chrome OS has a WUI (windowing user interface) and so did
> NDS. I could gone on, but I won't.
>
> Chrome OS is a BIG SO WHAT! Heck, you can even go back to Trix (at MIT
> in the early 80s and the work of other guys) that had built the concept
> of "cloud" computing in the OS. We need to stop all this "Chrome OS" is
> so new and cool and do a little research and investigation. You will
> find nothing new here.
>
> There are few really new things in computing. We've had HTML and the
> web. We had Ethernet. I'm sure there are others out there but Chrome OS
> isn't one of them.
>
> C.
>
> Paulo Calcada wrote:
> > Sorry but I'm not understanding now. Which are the real resemblances?
>
> > 2009/7/9 <eprparad...@gmail.com <mailto:eprparad...@gmail.com>>
>
> Nothing new here at all.
>
> The bigger question is - why is it taking Google until "late-2010" to release it?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eprparad...@gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:57 PM
> To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected and speculated (Cloud) OS
>
> Let's see...Chrome OS is a thin client to the "cloud". NDS was a thin
> client to the "cloud" of the time (remember the Network is the
> Computer?) Chrome OS has a WUI (windowing user interface) and so did
> NDS. I could gone on, but I won't.
>
> Chrome OS is a BIG SO WHAT! Heck, you can even go back to Trix (at MIT
> in the early 80s and the work of other guys) that had built the concept
> of "cloud" computing in the OS. We need to stop all this "Chrome OS" is
> so new and cool and do a little research and investigation. You will
> find nothing new here.
>
> There are few really new things in computing. We've had HTML and the
> web. We had Ethernet. I'm sure there are others out there but Chrome OS
> isn't one of them.
>
> C.
>
> Paulo Calcada wrote:
> > Sorry but I'm not understanding now. Which are the real resemblances?
>
> > > that the SaaS layer is the one, in my perspective, that could have
> > more
> > > relevance to the user's daily work or in the user's perspective of the
> > > Cloud. And it's precisely there where I think that products such
> > as the
> > > Google Chrome OS and the Palm WEBOS could have a strong impact. Not
> > > because they are thin clients to access the Cloud but because they
> > will
> > > put the cloud working for users.
>
> > > The perfect sandbox or ecosystem for SaaS applications is the web
> > > browser, but because its development is so dependent on the
> > development
> > > of the underlying OS, I think that having both developed in an
> > > integrated way could be a major step forward.
>
> > > To be able to have a perfect Could OS we still need to develop simple
> > > things as:
>
> > > - a web clipboard: I've introduced some ideas
>
> > here:http://www.cloudviews.org/2009/02/the-internet-command-prompt-and-may...
> > more
> > > relevance to the user's daily work or in the user's perspective of the
> > > Cloud. And it's precisely there where I think that products such
> > as the
> > > Google Chrome OS and the Palm WEBOS could have a strong impact. Not
> > > because they are thin clients to access the Cloud but because they
> > will
> > > put the cloud working for users.
>
> > > The perfect sandbox or ecosystem for SaaS applications is the web
> > > browser, but because its development is so dependent on the
> > development
> > > of the underlying OS, I think that having both developed in an
> > > integrated way could be a major step forward.
>
> > > To be able to have a perfect Could OS we still need to develop simple
> > > things as:
>
> > > - a web clipboard: I've introduced some ideas
>
>
> > > - better offline modes, using HTML5 or Google Gears tools
>
> > > - better Identity selectors (or digital wallet): I'm working on a
> > short
> > > post about it, I hope to have it available soon.
>
> > > Those are simple examples that I think could be easily developed
> > if they
> > > are built in a integrated way.
>
> > > It's obvious that in a commercial perspective, and being Google one of
> > > the top developers on the SaaS market, to have a complete Could
> > > ecosystem is something that they would love to have, and it's
> > precisely
> > > here that they should be careful and try not to close this
> > platform and
> > > make it only available to their products. Taking the VMware
> > > (Virtualization) example, don't forget that we are now trying to
> > > discussed which Virtual Machine Open Format is more suitable to
> > prevent
> > > the vendor lock-in problem.
>
> > > Thanks Paulo
>
> > > 2009/7/8 <eprparad...@gmail.com <mailto:eprparad...@gmail.com>
> > > - better offline modes, using HTML5 or Google Gears tools
>
> > > - better Identity selectors (or digital wallet): I'm working on a
> > short
> > > post about it, I hope to have it available soon.
>
> > > Those are simple examples that I think could be easily developed
> > if they
> > > are built in a integrated way.
>
> > > It's obvious that in a commercial perspective, and being Google one of
> > > the top developers on the SaaS market, to have a complete Could
> > > ecosystem is something that they would love to have, and it's
> > precisely
> > > here that they should be careful and try not to close this
> > platform and
> > > make it only available to their products. Taking the VMware
> > > (Virtualization) example, don't forget that we are now trying to
> > > discussed which Virtual Machine Open Format is more suitable to
> > prevent
> > > the vendor lock-in problem.
>
> > > Thanks Paulo
>
> > <mailto:eprparad...@gmail.com <mailto:eprparad...@gmail.com>>>
>
> > > Paulo,
>
> > > Let me get this straight, and tell me where I am wrong.NCD
> > introduced a
> > > "thin client" back in 1988 (as I recall it was partially funded by
> > > Ellison). So how is Google's announcement of the Chrome OS or even
> > that
> > > of Palm so much more important to Cloud Computing? In my personal
> > > opinion we need to stop with the hype, do a little research and put
> > > things in perspective.
>
> > > Now granted the NCD platform wasn't open, but is that really the
> > > definition of cloud computing? The client has to be open? If that
> > is the
> > > case then things like Citrix et al don't fit the bill and neither does
> > > the like of VMWare.
>
> > > Chance
>
> > > Paulo Calcada wrote:
> > >> A couple of months ago I have written a short post about how
> > amazing the
> > >> new Palm WEB OS is and how their engineers (marketeers,
> > developers, etc
> > >> ) have captured so well the essence of the Cloud Computing Paradigm
>
> > (http://www.cloudviews.org/2009/01/squeeze-the-cloud-to-fit-into-your-...).
> > > Paulo,
>
> > > Let me get this straight, and tell me where I am wrong.NCD
> > introduced a
> > > "thin client" back in 1988 (as I recall it was partially funded by
> > > Ellison). So how is Google's announcement of the Chrome OS or even
> > that
> > > of Palm so much more important to Cloud Computing? In my personal
> > > opinion we need to stop with the hype, do a little research and put
> > > things in perspective.
>
> > > Now granted the NCD platform wasn't open, but is that really the
> > > definition of cloud computing? The client has to be open? If that
> > is the
> > > case then things like Citrix et al don't fit the bill and neither does
> > > the like of VMWare.
>
> > > Chance
>
> > > Paulo Calcada wrote:
> > >> A couple of months ago I have written a short post about how
> > amazing the
> > >> new Palm WEB OS is and how their engineers (marketeers,
> > developers, etc
> > >> ) have captured so well the essence of the Cloud Computing Paradigm
>
>
> > >> When Google introduced the Chrome browser. A broad discussion
> > about it
> > >> and about how it could be transformed in the OS of the cloud emerged,
> > >> without a great surprise Google introduced yesterday their plans
> > to the
> > >> Google Chrome OS.
>
> > >> Apparently this new Os is a real OS, based on Linux, it's not a
> > browser
> > >> working as
>
> ...
> > >> When Google introduced the Chrome browser. A broad discussion
> > about it
> > >> and about how it could be transformed in the OS of the cloud emerged,
> > >> without a great surprise Google introduced yesterday their plans
> > to the
> > >> Google Chrome OS.
>
> > >> Apparently this new Os is a real OS, based on Linux, it's not a
> > browser
> > >> working as
>
>
> read more »
eprpa...@gmail.com
Jul 10, 2009, 2:41:31 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
They aren't offering an "operating system", that is coming from Linux.
From their press release it looks like a new window manager is in the
works. I wasn't able to tell if they are dumping X for something else.
Chance
From their press release it looks like a new window manager is in the
works. I wasn't able to tell if they are dumping X for something else.
Chance
Jan Klincewicz
Jul 10, 2009, 2:51:04 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
I don't see how this affects Apple at all. They have a loyal (rabid)
following and really don't play in the "netbook" space. They are a
"fatter" client than Windows ...
--
Cheers,
Jan
following and really don't play in the "netbook" space. They are a
"fatter" client than Windows ...
Cheers,
Jan
Paulo Calcada
Jul 10, 2009, 4:19:39 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Have you read my posts?
To be able to have a OS that cloud enhance the Cloud paradigm we need much more than a window manager or another Linux distribution.... we don't need a simple thin client to the Cloud, that is something that we already have - the web browser.
I'm preparing another post, and I hope that this time I'm able to pass the real idea of what should be (in my prespective) the real Cloud OS (or cloud thin client) :)
Paulo
To be able to have a OS that cloud enhance the Cloud paradigm we need much more than a window manager or another Linux distribution.... we don't need a simple thin client to the Cloud, that is something that we already have - the web browser.
I'm preparing another post, and I hope that this time I'm able to pass the real idea of what should be (in my prespective) the real Cloud OS (or cloud thin client) :)
Paulo
2009/7/10 <eprpa...@gmail.com>
Paulo Calcada
Jul 10, 2009, 4:26:14 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
instead of having another Linux distribution with the kernel, the window manager, system tools, blablabla. The cloud OS should be as an Cloud Distribution, with: Identity Selector, offline tools, Authz tools, application as a store manager, clipboard on web, balbalbal...
Paulo
Paulo
2009/7/10 Paulo Calcada <pcal...@gmail.com>
eprpa...@gmail.com
Jul 10, 2009, 5:56:53 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Come on...it is just a rebundled software distribution of mostly OSS
that already exists and perhaps a few new things from Google. But
enhance the cloud experience? lol...I have a webbrowser that does
everything I need - play movies, listen to tunes/radio, browse sites. etc.
What the cloud needs is better software and services not another Linux
distro! And this distro will be heinous ... it will look at everything I
do and ship that information back to Google! OMG...talk about Big Brother!!!
Chance
Paulo Calcada wrote:
> Have you read my posts?
>
> To be able to have a OS that cloud enhance the Cloud paradigm we need
> much more than a window manager or another Linux distribution.... we
> don't need a simple thin client to the Cloud, that is something that we
> already have - the web browser.
>
> I'm preparing another post, and I hope that this time I'm able to pass
> the real idea of what should be (in my prespective) the real Cloud OS
> (or cloud thin client) :)
>
> Paulo
>
>
>
> 2009/7/10 <eprpa...@gmail.com <mailto:eprpa...@gmail.com>>
> <mailto:eprparad...@gmail.com <mailto:eprparad...@gmail.com>>>
> >>> > [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
that already exists and perhaps a few new things from Google. But
enhance the cloud experience? lol...I have a webbrowser that does
everything I need - play movies, listen to tunes/radio, browse sites. etc.
What the cloud needs is better software and services not another Linux
distro! And this distro will be heinous ... it will look at everything I
do and ship that information back to Google! OMG...talk about Big Brother!!!
Chance
Paulo Calcada wrote:
> Have you read my posts?
>
> To be able to have a OS that cloud enhance the Cloud paradigm we need
> much more than a window manager or another Linux distribution.... we
> don't need a simple thin client to the Cloud, that is something that we
> already have - the web browser.
>
> I'm preparing another post, and I hope that this time I'm able to pass
> the real idea of what should be (in my prespective) the real Cloud OS
> (or cloud thin client) :)
>
> Paulo
>
>
>
>
>
> They aren't offering an "operating system", that is coming from Linux.
> From their press release it looks like a new window manager is in the
> works. I wasn't able to tell if they are dumping X for something else.
>
> Chance
>
> Barbara wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > I think Google is excellent position to offer a competitive stable
> > "good enough" generic operating system. I hope they remain committed
> > to it. It is an excellent thing for the market place. I personally
> > want to be able to choose the OS/Web for my PCs, phone, TV and car
> > (does it make any sense care nav. systems are proprietary anymore?)
> >
> > I fully expect Google to after Microsoft performance, stability,
> > manageability and security gaps and do it a a lower cost---which
> > hopefully will drive Microsoft to better software engineering.
> >
> > As far as the conventional Windows terminal services players go with
> > thin client, perhaps they offer some real competition as well, however
> > they in many way appear to be stuck in their ways. I think they are
> > layering bells and whistles over old server side stuff.
> >
> > And I wonder what will happen to Apple with all of this.
> >
> > Barbara Bour
> >
> > On Jul 9, 3:14 pm, "Pietrasanta, Mark"
> <Mark.Pietrasa...@aquilent.com <mailto:Mark.Pietrasa...@aquilent.com>>
>
> They aren't offering an "operating system", that is coming from Linux.
> From their press release it looks like a new window manager is in the
> works. I wasn't able to tell if they are dumping X for something else.
>
> Chance
>
> Barbara wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > I think Google is excellent position to offer a competitive stable
> > "good enough" generic operating system. I hope they remain committed
> > to it. It is an excellent thing for the market place. I personally
> > want to be able to choose the OS/Web for my PCs, phone, TV and car
> > (does it make any sense care nav. systems are proprietary anymore?)
> >
> > I fully expect Google to after Microsoft performance, stability,
> > manageability and security gaps and do it a a lower cost---which
> > hopefully will drive Microsoft to better software engineering.
> >
> > As far as the conventional Windows terminal services players go with
> > thin client, perhaps they offer some real competition as well, however
> > they in many way appear to be stuck in their ways. I think they are
> > layering bells and whistles over old server side stuff.
> >
> > And I wonder what will happen to Apple with all of this.
> >
> > Barbara Bour
> >
> > On Jul 9, 3:14 pm, "Pietrasanta, Mark"
> >>> Argh...Do some research and check out NDS! In 1988 they had
> the times'
> >>> version of Chrome OS! Nothing new under the sun but hype and BS.
> >>> C.
> >>> Derek Sedlack wrote:
> >>> > Like the initial move to GUI from DOS, Web from GUI, CC
> from Web...?
> >>> > Derek
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>>
> >>> > [mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> the times'
> >>> version of Chrome OS! Nothing new under the sun but hype and BS.
> >>> C.
> >>> Derek Sedlack wrote:
> >>> > Like the initial move to GUI from DOS, Web from GUI, CC
> from Web...?
> >>> > Derek
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > *From:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>>
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>>] *On Behalf Of *Sachin Duggal
> >>> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM
> >>> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> >>> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>>] *On Behalf Of *Sachin Duggal
> >>> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM
> >>> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>>] *On Behalf Of *Paulo Calcada
> >>> > *Sent:* 09 July 2009 10:09 AM
> >>> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> >>> > *Sent:* 09 July 2009 10:09 AM
> >>> > *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
dave corley
Jul 10, 2009, 6:19:59 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
My opinion,...
All things in cloud computing, from PaaS to IaaS to SaaS are enabled by the proliferation of internet access anywhere and the declining costs of higher internet bandwidth and CPU/memory. This has, in turn, driven ISVs to re-consider how they develop/maintain software. Traditionally, software was built for delivery in boxes through retail or other channels. Result - lots of versions developed, lots of version interoperability testing, lots of upgrade/downgrade compatibility issues/service issues that cost these ISVs a lot of back-end money to continue operations. My own company spends 75% of its core engineering team on version maintenance/testing/support on its core software product. Such has been the price of success in a "packaged" software world.
Inexpensive bandwidth and internet access ubiquity allow ISVs to re-consider this inefficient development/test/support mechanism...and to build go to market models that are more efficient as well. So, they build a single "version" of their server application, host it in the cloud. They split apart the client application into an "engine" component and a UI component. They host multiple instances of a single, common version the engine in the cloud, right next to the server software. The client engine then interacts through html/Java/XML over http with a browser client UI component at the client's "computer". The client computer, in this pure SaaS model, can therefore be built with less expensive components since the client and the server engine instances are in the cloud. Thus, all the hooplah about Chrome, Netbooks and Intel's ATOM processor product line.
The ISV turned SaaS vendor reaps the benefit of dramatically reduced development, dev test support and logistical costs - offerred by the single version, in the cloud concept. As Google entered this market, they have no legacy heavyweight client apps at their customer sites. They started life as a pure SaaS vendor and dont have to deal with legacy migration of an existing base of customers. Every other ISV on the lanet sees the cost-efficiency benefit of the pure SaaS play, but must figure out how to transition their business without cannibalization. So, many (doomed) ISVs are taking the step to pure SaaS slowly. Google's bet is that MSFT, in particular, will not be able to transition their business to the new model before google figures out how to capture the bulk of MSFTs market share and dev partner ecosystem.
A sign of the times - Intel is placing big bets on ATOM, a processor that is arguably tailored to a lighter weight "netbook" style computer optimized to support browsers and at much lower costs. But Intel is hedging their bets. They know the ISVs must acommodate local document creation/modification, so ATOM has sufficient power and html5 has sufficient functionality to allow work in the absence of high bandwidth internet access.
As with every seminal market transition - and this one is sa big or bigger than mainframe to client-server - legacy software and hardware vendors will have to compose and execute on legacy migration strategies to keep the lights on while planning for full embrace of XaaS transition.
Dave
All things in cloud computing, from PaaS to IaaS to SaaS are enabled by the proliferation of internet access anywhere and the declining costs of higher internet bandwidth and CPU/memory. This has, in turn, driven ISVs to re-consider how they develop/maintain software. Traditionally, software was built for delivery in boxes through retail or other channels. Result - lots of versions developed, lots of version interoperability testing, lots of upgrade/downgrade compatibility issues/service issues that cost these ISVs a lot of back-end money to continue operations. My own company spends 75% of its core engineering team on version maintenance/testing/support on its core software product. Such has been the price of success in a "packaged" software world.
Inexpensive bandwidth and internet access ubiquity allow ISVs to re-consider this inefficient development/test/support mechanism...and to build go to market models that are more efficient as well. So, they build a single "version" of their server application, host it in the cloud. They split apart the client application into an "engine" component and a UI component. They host multiple instances of a single, common version the engine in the cloud, right next to the server software. The client engine then interacts through html/Java/XML over http with a browser client UI component at the client's "computer". The client computer, in this pure SaaS model, can therefore be built with less expensive components since the client and the server engine instances are in the cloud. Thus, all the hooplah about Chrome, Netbooks and Intel's ATOM processor product line.
The ISV turned SaaS vendor reaps the benefit of dramatically reduced development, dev test support and logistical costs - offerred by the single version, in the cloud concept. As Google entered this market, they have no legacy heavyweight client apps at their customer sites. They started life as a pure SaaS vendor and dont have to deal with legacy migration of an existing base of customers. Every other ISV on the lanet sees the cost-efficiency benefit of the pure SaaS play, but must figure out how to transition their business without cannibalization. So, many (doomed) ISVs are taking the step to pure SaaS slowly. Google's bet is that MSFT, in particular, will not be able to transition their business to the new model before google figures out how to capture the bulk of MSFTs market share and dev partner ecosystem.
A sign of the times - Intel is placing big bets on ATOM, a processor that is arguably tailored to a lighter weight "netbook" style computer optimized to support browsers and at much lower costs. But Intel is hedging their bets. They know the ISVs must acommodate local document creation/modification, so ATOM has sufficient power and html5 has sufficient functionality to allow work in the absence of high bandwidth internet access.
As with every seminal market transition - and this one is sa big or bigger than mainframe to client-server - legacy software and hardware vendors will have to compose and execute on legacy migration strategies to keep the lights on while planning for full embrace of XaaS transition.
Dave
Jan Klincewicz
Jul 10, 2009, 6:28:48 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Paulo:
Gee ... that sounds like you're describing Microsoft Windows ..
--
Cheers,
Jan
Gee ... that sounds like you're describing Microsoft Windows ..
Cheers,
Jan
Jim Starkey
Jul 10, 2009, 9:22:37 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
eprpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> Come on...it is just a rebundled software distribution of mostly OSS
> that already exists and perhaps a few new things from Google. But
> enhance the cloud experience? lol...I have a webbrowser that does
> everything I need - play movies, listen to tunes/radio, browse sites. etc.
>
> What the cloud needs is better software and services not another Linux
> distro! And this distro will be heinous ... it will look at everything I
> do and ship that information back to Google! OMG...talk about Big Brother!!!
>
> Chance
>
Linux is a kernel, which schedules I/O, drivers, executables, and > Come on...it is just a rebundled software distribution of mostly OSS
> that already exists and perhaps a few new things from Google. But
> enhance the cloud experience? lol...I have a webbrowser that does
> everything I need - play movies, listen to tunes/radio, browse sites. etc.
>
> What the cloud needs is better software and services not another Linux
> distro! And this distro will be heinous ... it will look at everything I
> do and ship that information back to Google! OMG...talk about Big Brother!!!
>
> Chance
>
threads and also a vast assortment of distros that encompasses 4,216
pieces of unprincipled, squirrelly crud. Which is Google's Chrome OS?
You'll have to wait and see. All you know now is that it probably has a
Linux kernel and will be open source.
TiVO and Linksys routers use Linux kernels but have little to do with
Debian, SuSE, and RedHat.
I suggest you back off until you see what Google is actually up to.
Any, by the way, it's hard to secretly talk back to big brother *and* be
open source. You might note, for example, that the FBI's Carnivore
system is top secret and not open source (though, admittedly, I have
checked Source Forge recently).
Break us a give, and let Google be Google. When they're ready, you can
dump on them with facts rather than guesses.
Ray Nugent
Jul 10, 2009, 11:56:42 PM7/10/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
I guess that's what happens when you announce something before you release it...
Ray
Ray
From: Jim Starkey <jsta...@NimbusDB.com>
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 6:22:37 PM
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected and speculated (Cloud) OS
eprpa...@gmail.com
Jul 11, 2009, 5:15:24 AM7/11/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Back off? I'm just tired of hearing that whatever Google does is close
to being so new and so exciting that it is like being in Heaven. I've
been in the business a long time and can see hype from reality, and what
I am hearing now is a lot of hype.
Google announced it was the Linux OS with a new window manager. That
much was in the release. That is the fact today along with the fact that
it is a "so what"! There is nothing new here.
Chance
Ray Nugent wrote:
> I guess that's what happens when you announce something before you
> release it...
>
> Ray
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jim Starkey <jsta...@NimbusDB.com>
> *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Friday, July 10, 2009 6:22:37 PM
> *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected
to being so new and so exciting that it is like being in Heaven. I've
been in the business a long time and can see hype from reality, and what
I am hearing now is a lot of hype.
Google announced it was the Linux OS with a new window manager. That
much was in the release. That is the fact today along with the fact that
it is a "so what"! There is nothing new here.
Chance
Ray Nugent wrote:
> I guess that's what happens when you announce something before you
> release it...
>
> Ray
>
> *From:* Jim Starkey <jsta...@NimbusDB.com>
> *To:* cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Friday, July 10, 2009 6:22:37 PM
> *Subject:* [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Google Chrome OS - The so expected
Paulo Calcada
Jul 11, 2009, 8:50:58 AM7/11/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Dave, maybe in a more "poetical", version that's exactly my point of view, we are in a breaking point where the old business and technologies models are to be changed and we have to be able to decouple from those previous models to completely understand what are being constructed in from of our eyes.
2009/7/10 dave corley <dcor...@gmail.com>
Paulo Calcada
Jul 11, 2009, 8:59:20 AM7/11/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Jim, I wasn't only talking about Google Chrome OS, I was talking about it and, as another example, I as also talking about Palm WEBOS. When I was saying that they were putting the Cloud work for users, on the PALM WEBOS they have a very well design way of integrating the calendars and contacts of different Cloud providers.They are not simply importing them....
And also, talking about Windows, the best way that you have to copy (move) information between cloud providers is if you use the "old" download and then upload method.......
I'm not trying to guess what they are developing, I'm talking about what I would love to see on their platform..
Paulo
And also, talking about Windows, the best way that you have to copy (move) information between cloud providers is if you use the "old" download and then upload method.......
I'm not trying to guess what they are developing, I'm talking about what I would love to see on their platform..
Paulo
2009/7/11 Jim Starkey <jsta...@nimbusdb.com>
Jan Klincewicz
Jul 11, 2009, 9:52:21 AM7/11/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Look at BusyBox ... It is about a stripped-down a distro as you can
get, but great for embedded systems or code that just needs very basic
OS functions (as Jim said, scheduling, I/O, file system etc.)
Why re-invent the wheel, when a well-known OSS base is already
available. Why would Google want developers to have to learn a new
OS from square one ? I agree, not to pass judgment based on pure
speculation.
On the other hand, a "light" network-dependent platform will probably
never become dominant until wireless broadband is :
1. Ubiquitous
2. Affordable
3. Reliable
So much of the market for compute devices is now mobile that a "thin"
client that need to be "tethered" whether by a wire or Wi-Fi range is
useless in many situations.
--
Cheers,
Jan
get, but great for embedded systems or code that just needs very basic
OS functions (as Jim said, scheduling, I/O, file system etc.)
Why re-invent the wheel, when a well-known OSS base is already
available. Why would Google want developers to have to learn a new
OS from square one ? I agree, not to pass judgment based on pure
speculation.
On the other hand, a "light" network-dependent platform will probably
never become dominant until wireless broadband is :
1. Ubiquitous
2. Affordable
3. Reliable
So much of the market for compute devices is now mobile that a "thin"
client that need to be "tethered" whether by a wire or Wi-Fi range is
useless in many situations.
Cheers,
Jan
Martin Stein
Jul 11, 2009, 12:12:36 PM7/11/09
to Cloud Computing
If what Google build in the past is any indication of what's to come,
the Chrome OS will be a Linux kernel with a windowing system on top
that can support a browser.
The OS has to support netbook hardware, and by next year that will be
a growing mess of devices. Supporting those devices will be hard. If
there was also a Google Netbook, things would be easier, but as in
Android they'll just have to support what the hardware guys make. A
good netbook OS will have to support ACPI - all the sleep and
hibernate modes - perfectly, so that powering down and back up takes
minimal time. It should also support turning off unused devices and
have them come back on really fast. That is a major challenge that IMO
the Linux distros have not solved. It will be very interesting to see
how they do this.
They software on top of the OS side is comparatively easier. Once they
get the browser (HTML5, gears, some kind of flash support probably for
the movies) running, who cares?
the Chrome OS will be a Linux kernel with a windowing system on top
that can support a browser.
The OS has to support netbook hardware, and by next year that will be
a growing mess of devices. Supporting those devices will be hard. If
there was also a Google Netbook, things would be easier, but as in
Android they'll just have to support what the hardware guys make. A
good netbook OS will have to support ACPI - all the sleep and
hibernate modes - perfectly, so that powering down and back up takes
minimal time. It should also support turning off unused devices and
have them come back on really fast. That is a major challenge that IMO
the Linux distros have not solved. It will be very interesting to see
how they do this.
They software on top of the OS side is comparatively easier. Once they
get the browser (HTML5, gears, some kind of flash support probably for
the movies) running, who cares?
dave corley
Jul 11, 2009, 3:02:29 PM7/11/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
My opinion,
There are generally three end user-facing OS/platform categories today. These categories are largely driven by yesterday's and today's user environment including non-ubiquitous internet access, low last mile bandwidth, relatively expansive compute components (CPU, mem, IO).
1. Dumb cell phone - runs one primary client application - communications - voice, simple messaging. OS is tiny, extremely efficient, but not scalable or broadly functional. OS and platform built for the application that is/was selling for last twenty years - mobile voice+simple messaging.
2. SmartPhone/PDA - runs multiple, local lightweight client apps as well as browser - utility of voice/simple messaging dropping as percentage of overall utility of application services presented to the user. OS more general purpose, more powerful, requires more CPU, mem, IO, display. OK, because costs of this stuff going down due to market success. But OS and platform design and thefegmust account for both original cellphone funcitons and user experience, SaaS (browser UI) and heavier clients. But IO insufficient for desktop work.
3. Personal computer - runs every kind of app and service known to man. Must accommodate local heavy apps and data and (more and more) SaaS services. IO user interface has to be useful (and big) enough to get work done. Legacy heavy client or stand-alone apps dictate broadly powerful and funcitonal CPU, OS.
google and others before them realize that technology and market and user trends are pushing toward another class of end user platform that has, heretofore, been unsuccessful in the market ... It lies somewhere between the PC and the SmartPhone/PDA. google is bettng that X years from now, this newer class of end user device will supplant the PC. So, the OS and hardware must adapt to that environment. google, through this announcement, is telling the world that 'X' will be sooner than you think. Until 'X' happens, plenty of legacy client/standalone apps (and their vendors) will keep the PC market alive and kicking. I agree with Martin - chrome is likely to be a lightweight linux kernel akin to busybox with juiced up graphical IO supporting html5. It cant immediately supplant the PC because of the inertia of users and user demographics turnover (=death). But it demonstrates to me that google thinks more strategically about the future of technology and markets than most companies on the planet. The PC may not be supplated, but the new platform/OS will significantly impair legacy software/PC vendors' market share.
When is 'X'?
Dave
There are generally three end user-facing OS/platform categories today. These categories are largely driven by yesterday's and today's user environment including non-ubiquitous internet access, low last mile bandwidth, relatively expansive compute components (CPU, mem, IO).
1. Dumb cell phone - runs one primary client application - communications - voice, simple messaging. OS is tiny, extremely efficient, but not scalable or broadly functional. OS and platform built for the application that is/was selling for last twenty years - mobile voice+simple messaging.
2. SmartPhone/PDA - runs multiple, local lightweight client apps as well as browser - utility of voice/simple messaging dropping as percentage of overall utility of application services presented to the user. OS more general purpose, more powerful, requires more CPU, mem, IO, display. OK, because costs of this stuff going down due to market success. But OS and platform design and thefegmust account for both original cellphone funcitons and user experience, SaaS (browser UI) and heavier clients. But IO insufficient for desktop work.
3. Personal computer - runs every kind of app and service known to man. Must accommodate local heavy apps and data and (more and more) SaaS services. IO user interface has to be useful (and big) enough to get work done. Legacy heavy client or stand-alone apps dictate broadly powerful and funcitonal CPU, OS.
google and others before them realize that technology and market and user trends are pushing toward another class of end user platform that has, heretofore, been unsuccessful in the market ... It lies somewhere between the PC and the SmartPhone/PDA. google is bettng that X years from now, this newer class of end user device will supplant the PC. So, the OS and hardware must adapt to that environment. google, through this announcement, is telling the world that 'X' will be sooner than you think. Until 'X' happens, plenty of legacy client/standalone apps (and their vendors) will keep the PC market alive and kicking. I agree with Martin - chrome is likely to be a lightweight linux kernel akin to busybox with juiced up graphical IO supporting html5. It cant immediately supplant the PC because of the inertia of users and user demographics turnover (=death). But it demonstrates to me that google thinks more strategically about the future of technology and markets than most companies on the planet. The PC may not be supplated, but the new platform/OS will significantly impair legacy software/PC vendors' market share.
When is 'X'?
Dave
Dave Clark
Jul 11, 2009, 3:38:59 PM7/11/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
that google comment reminds me of our experience implementing gmail for small companies (<200 mail boxes). Complete end-user experience failure, no control, and we had to manually move much of the data to zimbra.
Google has got a bit of redmonditus.
Google has got a bit of redmonditus.
________________________________
Paulo Calcada
Jul 11, 2009, 4:29:42 PM7/11/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
"The PC may not be supplated, but the new platform/OS will significantly impair legacy software/PC vendors' market share. "
Thanks Dave ;)2009/7/11 dave corley <dcor...@gmail.com>
Paulo Calcada
Jul 11, 2009, 5:06:46 PM7/11/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Although I'm not only talking about "thin client" - large application server paradigm, I think that we could use that as an example. And if we do that we will find out that the great differences between what it's happening now and the past experiences are on the audience. Old thin client were design for the enterprises with the objective of reducing costs, increasing manageability and availability. This new thin client as you are saying that Google Chrome would be, are design for the masses. And that's because only now we have available Cloud Computing.
Paulo
Paulo
2009/7/11 Paulo Calcada <pcal...@gmail.com>
Paulo Calcada
Jul 20, 2009, 12:14:48 PM7/20/09
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10286308-56.html?tag=mncol;txt
I'ts very interesting to see how Steve Balmer views the OSmarket and specially how it sees the Microsft Windows as the only and exclusive player:
"We don't need a new operating system," Ballmer said Tuesday, as part of his keynote at Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference in New Orleans. "What we do need to do is to continue to evolve Windows, Windows Applications, IE (Internet Explorer), the way IE works in totality with Windows and how we build applications like Office...and we need to make sure we can bring our customers and partners with us."
I'ts very interesting to see how Steve Balmer views the OSmarket and specially how it sees the Microsft Windows as the only and exclusive player:
"We don't need a new operating system," Ballmer said Tuesday, as part of his keynote at Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference in New Orleans. "What we do need to do is to continue to evolve Windows, Windows Applications, IE (Internet Explorer), the way IE works in totality with Windows and how we build applications like Office...and we need to make sure we can bring our customers and partners with us."
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages