[ Cloud Computing ] Cloud Computing Killed Siebel – Will You be Next?
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amisra
Apr 27, 2010, 2:48:57 PM4/27/10
to Cloud Computing
Everyone knows how salesforce.com crushed Siebel a few years ago, to
become the de facto standard in CRM. What started with a win in the
On Demand CRM battlefield, has now revolutionized the delivery of
software through cloud computing. Legacy software vendors under attack
from newer cloud providers, are scrambling to protect their turf, like
Siebel tried to do in the early part of the decade. However, most of
these legacy vendors are fighting a losing battle...
Read full article at:
http://blog.cloudnavatar.com/financial/cloud-computing-killed-siebel-will-you-be-next/
Alok Misra
Principal
Navatar Group
www.navatargroup.com
Blog: blog.cloudnavatar.com
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become the de facto standard in CRM. What started with a win in the
On Demand CRM battlefield, has now revolutionized the delivery of
software through cloud computing. Legacy software vendors under attack
from newer cloud providers, are scrambling to protect their turf, like
Siebel tried to do in the early part of the decade. However, most of
these legacy vendors are fighting a losing battle...
Read full article at:
http://blog.cloudnavatar.com/financial/cloud-computing-killed-siebel-will-you-be-next/
Alok Misra
Principal
Navatar Group
www.navatargroup.com
Blog: blog.cloudnavatar.com
--
~~~~~
Register Today for Cloud Slam 2010 at official website - http://cloudslam10.com
Posting guidelines: http://groups.google.ca/group/cloud-computing/web/frequently-asked-questions
Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/cloudcomp_group or @cloudcomp_group
Post Job/Resume at http://cloudjobs.net
Buy 88 conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD at
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1U or get instant access to downloadable versions at http://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
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Fabrice Cathala
Apr 27, 2010, 5:25:32 PM4/27/10
to Cloud Computing
Interesting article Alok and I do agree with you that "shy attempts"
to transition the software delivery model to the cloud without
rethinking the whole business model is doomed to failure.
I have been there with a previous company (move from on-premise to
multi-tenant SaaS and change in licensing model, revenue recognition,
etc...) and this was really difficult, way more than it could be for a
start-up to launch directly in the cloud...
Thanks.
Fabrice
On Apr 27, 7:48 pm, amisra <alok_mi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Everyone knows how salesforce.com crushed Siebel a few years ago, to
> become the de facto standard in CRM. What started with a win in the
> On Demand CRM battlefield, has now revolutionized the delivery of
> software through cloud computing. Legacy software vendors under attack
> from newer cloud providers, are scrambling to protect their turf, like
> Siebel tried to do in the early part of the decade. However, most of
> these legacy vendors are fighting a losing battle...
>
> Read full article at:
>
> http://blog.cloudnavatar.com/financial/cloud-computing-killed-siebel-...
>
> Alok Misra
> Principal
> Navatar Groupwww.navatargroup.com
> Follow us on Twitterhttp://twitter.com/cloudcomp_groupor @cloudcomp_group
> Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> Buy 88 conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD athttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
to transition the software delivery model to the cloud without
rethinking the whole business model is doomed to failure.
I have been there with a previous company (move from on-premise to
multi-tenant SaaS and change in licensing model, revenue recognition,
etc...) and this was really difficult, way more than it could be for a
start-up to launch directly in the cloud...
Thanks.
Fabrice
On Apr 27, 7:48 pm, amisra <alok_mi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Everyone knows how salesforce.com crushed Siebel a few years ago, to
> become the de facto standard in CRM. What started with a win in the
> On Demand CRM battlefield, has now revolutionized the delivery of
> software through cloud computing. Legacy software vendors under attack
> from newer cloud providers, are scrambling to protect their turf, like
> Siebel tried to do in the early part of the decade. However, most of
> these legacy vendors are fighting a losing battle...
>
> Read full article at:
>
>
> Alok Misra
> Principal
> Navatar Groupwww.navatargroup.com
> Blog: blog.cloudnavatar.com
>
> --
> ~~~~~
> Register Today for Cloud Slam 2010 at official website -http://cloudslam10.com
> Posting guidelines:http://groups.google.ca/group/cloud-computing/web/frequently-asked-qu...
>
> --
> ~~~~~
> Register Today for Cloud Slam 2010 at official website -http://cloudslam10.com
> Follow us on Twitterhttp://twitter.com/cloudcomp_groupor @cloudcomp_group
> Post Job/Resume athttp://cloudjobs.net
> Buy 88 conference sessions and panels on cloud computing on DVD athttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uor get instant access to downloadable versions athttp://cloudslam09.com/content/registration-5.html
Ray Nugent
Apr 28, 2010, 12:43:08 AM4/28/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
The problems for legacy on premise vendors here are several fold. First of all the business model that includes a large up front license fee followed by significant implementation costs then ongoing software maintenance fees just won't hold up much longer when the Cloud business model offers no CAPEX, small up front expenditure and rapid deployment of the solution. Cloud is not only cheaper, it's a heck of a lot faster.
The second challenge is that there is a significant difference in skill set between burning CDs and operating a large datacenter 24/365 globally. Not only do the incumbants not have the skill set, the cost to build a SaaS based system and port your software is considerable and the effort can take years. So far, very few on premise or shrink wrapped vendors have been successful in making the transition (Intuit is one that has done it well).
Not surprisingly the on premise ecosystem is impacted as well. Systems integrators and other partners are left with a fraction of their business models intact as they scramble to replace lost revenue from the on premise bring up and support work that disappears with SaaS.
This is why we contend that Enterprise is the new Black in VC circles as a new generation of SaaS and Cloud based applications targeted at the enterprise are emerging to take on the old guard on premise vendors. Hot young companies like Yammer, Workday and Good Data are rapidly gaining on the on prem guys. That's not to say, however, that a SaaS model doesn't present challenges to an enterprise. Integrating a large number of SaaS vendors presents a special kind of challenge that corporate IT may not be ready for. Enterprise Performance Management solutionsm for example, are not there yet for SaaS.
This is going to be a painful ride for incumbents and their ecosystems. The ones that embrace SaaS aggressively, soon, have a chance. The rest will become the Burroughs, DEC or Wang of this generation.
Ray
The second challenge is that there is a significant difference in skill set between burning CDs and operating a large datacenter 24/365 globally. Not only do the incumbants not have the skill set, the cost to build a SaaS based system and port your software is considerable and the effort can take years. So far, very few on premise or shrink wrapped vendors have been successful in making the transition (Intuit is one that has done it well).
Not surprisingly the on premise ecosystem is impacted as well. Systems integrators and other partners are left with a fraction of their business models intact as they scramble to replace lost revenue from the on premise bring up and support work that disappears with SaaS.
This is why we contend that Enterprise is the new Black in VC circles as a new generation of SaaS and Cloud based applications targeted at the enterprise are emerging to take on the old guard on premise vendors. Hot young companies like Yammer, Workday and Good Data are rapidly gaining on the on prem guys. That's not to say, however, that a SaaS model doesn't present challenges to an enterprise. Integrating a large number of SaaS vendors presents a special kind of challenge that corporate IT may not be ready for. Enterprise Performance Management solutionsm for example, are not there yet for SaaS.
This is going to be a painful ride for incumbents and their ecosystems. The ones that embrace SaaS aggressively, soon, have a chance. The rest will become the Burroughs, DEC or Wang of this generation.
Ray
From: Fabrice Cathala <fcat...@gmail.com>
To: Cloud Computing <cloud-c...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, April 27, 2010 2:25:32 PM
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Cloud Computing Killed Siebel – Will You be Next?
dave corley
Apr 28, 2010, 7:42:20 AM4/28/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
IMHO...
Legacy software vendors are moving to the cloud while attempting to protect legacy. We see this all over the industry and in all markets - consumer, small, medium, large. MSFT is a prime example. The speed at which these ISVs move from packaged app delivery to SaaS will be governed by the adoption rate of the end customer and their "IT departments" as well as the willingness or hesitancy of the ISV to depart from legacy group-think. Siebel didnt move quickly enough. Google had no legacy to protect, and the markets they have initially pursued (namely consumer) have "IT deparments" who also have little legacy to protect. (I speak as one who is the IT department of my family's residence area network and its applications). Google also has a monetization model that impedance matches to that first market.
What is not pointed out in the article is that there are additional protectors of legacy within small, medium and large enterprise - real IT departments whose employees have kids to feed and put through colllege. The larger the enterprise, the more intransigent the IT department is to moving from legacy. Change is painful and represents a potential career-threatening move for the pioneer within the IT department who presents a vision that may ultimately not be realized.
Small business is served traditionally by outsourced IT deprtments, VARs, IT consultants or your buddy in the store next door who happens to be a geek. These small business IT folks are intensely opex-averse. The small businesses themselves are capex averse. And the pressures on the ISVs and other technology vendors to respond pushes profit margins to unsustainable levels. So, SB IT people want something that can be quickly installed and cost almost nothing to "ugrade". SB end customers prefer limiting their capex spend and making any spend for the services currently delivered by packaged apps to more predictable recurring spend. And the SB "IT" guys, in their quest to prevent truck rolls to customer sites are embracing SaaS when it makes sense to their own pocketbooks. SaaS providers must realize that the SB owner still needs somebody to maintain service levels. SaaS providers themselves are having a difficult time providing SLAs when they do not control or maintain network or platform infrastructure at the customer site. SaaS providers - use the small business IT channel as a means to support (and sell) your service. They are not worthless middlemen. SB customers need these IT guys to keep their networks and services sane. SaaS providers need them to increase market share and to sustain acceptable service levels.
Conclusion: SaaS next big market win over packaged app ISVs ... small business. Proof points: salesforce, Intuit/mint, webex/gotomeeting, ...many more.
Dave
Legacy software vendors are moving to the cloud while attempting to protect legacy. We see this all over the industry and in all markets - consumer, small, medium, large. MSFT is a prime example. The speed at which these ISVs move from packaged app delivery to SaaS will be governed by the adoption rate of the end customer and their "IT departments" as well as the willingness or hesitancy of the ISV to depart from legacy group-think. Siebel didnt move quickly enough. Google had no legacy to protect, and the markets they have initially pursued (namely consumer) have "IT deparments" who also have little legacy to protect. (I speak as one who is the IT department of my family's residence area network and its applications). Google also has a monetization model that impedance matches to that first market.
What is not pointed out in the article is that there are additional protectors of legacy within small, medium and large enterprise - real IT departments whose employees have kids to feed and put through colllege. The larger the enterprise, the more intransigent the IT department is to moving from legacy. Change is painful and represents a potential career-threatening move for the pioneer within the IT department who presents a vision that may ultimately not be realized.
Small business is served traditionally by outsourced IT deprtments, VARs, IT consultants or your buddy in the store next door who happens to be a geek. These small business IT folks are intensely opex-averse. The small businesses themselves are capex averse. And the pressures on the ISVs and other technology vendors to respond pushes profit margins to unsustainable levels. So, SB IT people want something that can be quickly installed and cost almost nothing to "ugrade". SB end customers prefer limiting their capex spend and making any spend for the services currently delivered by packaged apps to more predictable recurring spend. And the SB "IT" guys, in their quest to prevent truck rolls to customer sites are embracing SaaS when it makes sense to their own pocketbooks. SaaS providers must realize that the SB owner still needs somebody to maintain service levels. SaaS providers themselves are having a difficult time providing SLAs when they do not control or maintain network or platform infrastructure at the customer site. SaaS providers - use the small business IT channel as a means to support (and sell) your service. They are not worthless middlemen. SB customers need these IT guys to keep their networks and services sane. SaaS providers need them to increase market share and to sustain acceptable service levels.
Conclusion: SaaS next big market win over packaged app ISVs ... small business. Proof points: salesforce, Intuit/mint, webex/gotomeeting, ...many more.
Dave
Amy Wohl
Apr 28, 2010, 9:03:24 AM4/28/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
This is so true. That's why SAP's feeble efforts and made and remade
decisions about how to be/not be in the cloud are so unlikely to succeed.
While it is disappointing to current users when their vendor chooses not to
offer a new technology (whether it's a delivery technology or otherwise),
time and time again we've seen that it's very hard for existing vendors to
incur the chance of losing revenue in their existing market to move in a
timely fashion to a new opportunity. Add that to the hardship of retooling
both your product and your business model and it's not surprising that SaaS
and Cloud Computing is likely to enable a new set of vendors and change many
in the older set from market leaders to legacy maintainers.
Amy D. Wohl
Editor, Amy Wohl's Opinions
40 Old Lancaster Road, #608
Merion, Station, PA 19066
610-667-4842
a...@wohl.com
www.wohl.com
-----Original Message-----
From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Fabrice Cathala
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:26 PM
To: Cloud Computing
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Cloud Computing Killed Siebel – Will You be
Next?
athttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H07SEC,http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ
decisions about how to be/not be in the cloud are so unlikely to succeed.
While it is disappointing to current users when their vendor chooses not to
offer a new technology (whether it's a delivery technology or otherwise),
time and time again we've seen that it's very hard for existing vendors to
incur the chance of losing revenue in their existing market to move in a
timely fashion to a new opportunity. Add that to the hardship of retooling
both your product and your business model and it's not surprising that SaaS
and Cloud Computing is likely to enable a new set of vendors and change many
in the older set from market leaders to legacy maintainers.
Amy D. Wohl
Editor, Amy Wohl's Opinions
40 Old Lancaster Road, #608
Merion, Station, PA 19066
610-667-4842
a...@wohl.com
www.wohl.com
-----Original Message-----
From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Fabrice Cathala
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:26 PM
To: Cloud Computing
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Cloud Computing Killed Siebel – Will You be
Next?
Jan Klincewicz
Apr 28, 2010, 5:16:12 PM4/28/10
to cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
We used to call it "eating your own children" when a new technology supplanted an older cash cow. When we x86 guys from Compaq used to sell against the high-priced (but high margin) DEC Alpha (and later the HP Itanium ) guys and gals we had a newer, more cost-effective nimble bag of tricks. Imagine how much money went into keeping Alpha on life-support (not to mention VMS and True64) and today is still pouring into Itanium.
It's hard to give up a product (and a model) that got you where you are. But as Darwin said, its those that can adapt (not the strongest, as if often mistakenly quoted) who survive !--
Cheers,
Jan
It's hard to give up a product (and a model) that got you where you are. But as Darwin said, its those that can adapt (not the strongest, as if often mistakenly quoted) who survive !
Cheers,
Jan
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