Cloud2db (Universal database for cloud computing)

[Sandeep]

Dear member,

My name is Sandeep Sathaye. I am a founder of a company called
Cloud2db. We have developed a product, which allows for an immediate
adaption of cloud database technologies into your enterprise
technology stack. This is truly a plug-and-play into the cloud
database technologies.

What is it?
Cloud2db is a universal database for cloud computing. Cloud2db brings
relational database functionality to cloud computing platforms by
bridging the gap between cloud database technologies and relational
database technologies. Our product works seamlessly with most of the
popular cloud database technologies like Google Bigtable, Amazon
SimpleDB & Hadoop HBase and it also supports the relational database
standards ANSI SQL-92/ANSI SQL-99 and JDBC 3.0.

What Sets Us Apart?
While there are many cloud databases emerging geared towards better
performance and scalability, these lack the built-in support for the
standards, structure and interoperability that is required to
effectively and quickly implement enterprise class applications. This
is where Cloud2db excels. Cloud2db provides a standards-based
abstraction layer over these cloud technologies to provide you with
performance and scalability of cloud database platforms along with
structure, standards and interoperability of relational database
platforms.

Check It Out
Please visit our website http://www.cloud2db.com and try out the free
trial version of our product. Please visit google group Cloud2db to
share your feedback and thoughts.
Sincerely,

Sandeep Sathaye
Founder and Chief Architect
Cloud2db

[Ray DePena]

What kind of performance improvements can one expect with the use of this product? :-)

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[Jim Starkey]

How do you implement ACID transactions on systems like SimpleDB and
BigTable that don't support transactions? And do you really do joins
across SimpleDB and/or BigTable tables?

--
Jim Starkey
Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.
978 526-1376

[Kingsley Idehen]

How do you deal with non relational data sources?

My company also offers Cloud DBMS, but its actually multi-model based
(i.e. not just Relational or Graph or Document), and it isn't scoped to
JDBC re. Data Access (that's just one of many protocols it supports,
both ways).

Links:

http://virtuoso.openlinksw.com/dataspace/dav/wiki/Main/VirtInstallationEC2

--


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

[Sandeep]

With Cloud2db you will get the performance and scalability of
underlying cloud database (Google Bigtable, Amazon SimpleDB). At the
same time you will get standards and interoperability provided by SQL
& JDBC. Cloud2db will for an immediate adaption of cloud database

technologies into your enterprise technology stack.

> > Please visit our websitehttp://www.cloud2db.comand try out the free

> > trial version of our product. Please visit google group Cloud2db to
> > share your feedback and thoughts.
> > Sincerely,
>
> > Sandeep Sathaye
> > Founder and Chief Architect
> > Cloud2db
>
> > --
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> > downloadable versions at
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> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Ray DePena, MBA, PMP
> +1.916.941.5558

> Ray.DeP...@gmail.com
> Twitter: @RayDePena
> LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/raydepena- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Steve Wardell]

So no performance improvement then? Claims need to be strongly backed with
verifiable statistics or its just marketing imo

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07:37:00

[Sandeep]

One thing to clarify. We don't join across different databases.

Cloud2db works seamlessly with most of the popular cloud database
technologies like Google Bigtable, Amazon SimpleDB & Hadoop HBase.
What we meant to say was, you can create a data model & deploy it on
Google Bigtable, Amazon SimpleDB, Hadoop HBase or on traditional RDBMS
without changing anything in your application code. Basically, it
gives you complete freedom of choosing underlying cloud database
technologies.

We use underlying cloud database transaction features. For Google
Bigtable we use entity groups to manage transactions. Simple DB
doesn't support transactions so the initial Cloud2db version for
SimpleDB won't support transactions.

> > Please visit our websitehttp://www.cloud2db.comand try out the free

> > trial version of our product. Please visit google group Cloud2db to
> > share your feedback and thoughts.
> > Sincerely,
>
> > Sandeep Sathaye
> > Founder and Chief Architect
> > Cloud2db
>
> --
> Jim Starkey
> Founder, NimbusDB, Inc.

> 978 526-1376- Hide quoted text -

[Sandeep]

The performance improvements are relative to traditional RDBMS. The
cloud databases are becoming popular because of their potential to
provide better performance and scalability over traditional RDBMS. We
want provide a standards-based abstraction layer over these cloud
technologies to provide performance and scalability of cloud database

platforms along with structure, standards and interoperability of
relational database platforms.

> > > Please visit our websitehttp://www.cloud2db.comandtry out the free

> > > trial version of our product. Please visit google group Cloud2db to
> > > share your feedback and thoughts.
> > > Sincerely,
>
> > > Sandeep Sathaye
> > > Founder and Chief Architect
> > > Cloud2db
>
> > > --
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> > --
> > Best Regards,
>
> > Ray DePena, MBA, PMP
> > +1.916.941.5558
> > Ray.DeP...@gmail.com
> > Twitter: @RayDePena

> > LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/raydepena-Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -
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[Rao Dronamraju]

Sandeep,

I am interested in understanding the business case behind (new) cloud based
databases.

As we all know alteast since dotcom days, gazillion folks have deployed web
based 3 or 4 tier applications with RDBMs on the backend across the world.
Almost every business and even individuals with web sites have deployed some
kind of MySQL or other RDBMs based applications.

Now are you expecting that all these solutions will be migrated to NEW cloud
based database technologies?...If I am a business and I have say 5000
customers accessing my database today and my growth rates are 10 to 20% a
year (which is reasonable/high for most businesses probably), how much
scalability do you need?....isn't cloud (markets) about migration of
existing businesses from data centers to clouds at least in the short run (3
to 5 years?..)

I can see two kinds of markets for databases for businesses.
1) to support consumer customers
2) business/employee/supply chain partners etc customers.

In case #1, for example, Dell/HP/IBM having consumers directly buying from
their websites. This consmer base clould be large (probably 6, 7 or even 8
figures). Are you saying this segment of the business market is the prime
candidate for cloud scale/based databases?....So these applications to be
migrated from present RDBMs to cloud database?....

In case #2, the employees and partners etc will be using ERP/CRM/SCM etc
applications which are also supported by RDBMs in the backend. These do not
necessarily need scalability to the extent of #1 case. These applications
would be AS IS migartion.

Another interesting business scenario would be supporting multi-tenancy in a
single instance of a database. That is say SAP tomorrow decides to have a
database version that would support ERP applications for multiple different
clients. They ofcourse need to take care of the secuirty implications of
such a database design. In this case again scalability would be a big issue.

or is your business case for new cloud applications?...or both?...

What markets are you targeting in your business
plan?...consumer?...business?...

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they are not needed or I am not trying
to discourage anyone, I am just trying to understand the markets/business
case for the new cloud database technologies?....

Regards,
Rao

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[Stephen Fleece]

I think the easiest case to envision cloud databases for me is using one
as a departmental ad-hoc data warehouse for basic structured storage,
analytics, and reporting. It saves time and money waiting on IT, a
Business Intelligence (BI), or HR department to implement something
centralized (or get staff hired/contracted to do your own on in-house IT
services and infrastructure). That's the positive side of the case.
There is a negative side too, in terms of non-functional risks
(security, availability, etc.) and costs to migrate your data out in the
future.

I seriously doubt large enterprise businesses will be moving important
transaction systems and operational data stores to cloud soon. (Aside:
Web services front ends are another story in a hybrid cloud architecture
and are a hot case!) I predict that transactional databases will
generally be one of the last types of apps to migrate from data centers
to the cloud. I sense there are specialized "big data" cases involving
advanced analytics and scientific and business intelligence purposes
that will emerge soon in the cloud, but they will be specialized, niche
cases but also possibly quite large in scale and interesting
innovations.

These are my personal thoughts (not those of my employer or its
members).

Stephen

-----Original Message-----
From: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:cloud-c...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rao Dronamraju
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 3:22 PM
To: cloud-c...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Cloud2db (Universal database for
cloud computing)

[Paulo Calcada]

First I've to say that this is a really nice discussion. It's great to see different players (providers/sellers) talking about their products and visions on Cloud Computing on a open way.

About the work presented by Sandeep, it looks like an interesting approach, and it's something that is already being  demanded by developers and project leaders. I've found this post, although it's a small example  it shows exactly that:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/996397/data-access-layer-switching-from-local-sql-database-to-cloud-data-storage

Finally,  this approach it's very close to the one implemented, with large success,  by many development platforms such as the work done on PERL, with their DBI: dbi.perl.org; or  RUBY (http://ruby-dbi.rubyforge.org/).

Thanks

Paulo

2009/12/14 Stephen Fleece <sfl...@tmforum.org>

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[Sandeep]

Thanks for your post. All the scenarios you have mentioned are valid
and in fact there will be many more scenarios depending on different
situations. Enterprises will make their decisions based on many
factors.

Here is one article http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Database/Cloud-Database-Adoption-Proceeds-Slowly-Analysts-Say-352596/.

At fundamental level we believe that model of "traditional (i.e.,
relational, SQL) processing using a cloud platform" is going to be
most viable for enterprises. But what we think is that customer should
have complete freedom of using the underlying cloud platform when
using this model. We also think that customer should also have
complete freedom of choosing between traditional RDBMS and cloud
platform without affecting their applications. That's what we are
trying to achieve at Cloud2db. That's our business case.


On Dec 14, 3:21 pm, "Rao Dronamraju" <rao.dronamr...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> > > > Please visit our websitehttp://www.cloud2db.comandtryout the free

> > > > trial version of our product. Please visit google group Cloud2db to
> > > > share your feedback and thoughts.
> > > > Sincerely,
>
> > > > Sandeep Sathaye
> > > > Founder and Chief Architect
> > > > Cloud2db
>
> > > > --
> > > > ~~~~~
> > > > Register Today for Cloud Slam 2010 athttp://cloudslam10.com
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> > > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002H0IW1Uorgetinstant access to

> > > > downloadable versions at
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> > > --
> > > Best Regards,
>
> > > Ray DePena, MBA, PMP
> > > +1.916.941.5558
> > > Ray.DeP...@gmail.com
> > > Twitter: @RayDePena

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[Rao Dronamraju]

Sandeep,

Thanks for the link.

I think this in the artcile says it all w.r.t. issues and migration time
lines to clouds

"The main concerns around cloud databases—security, compliance and
scalability—are essentially the same as last year, analysts said, and are
part of a wider discussion about cloud computing. There are also concerns
about performance issues as well—whether a particular offering can deliver
subsecond query responses, for example.

“Right now, vendors are not really addressing the scale issue, but mainly to
establish credibility and reliability of the solution, scale will follow
over the next two to three years,” Yuhanna said. “The target is to get
departmental and smaller business apps on the cloud first. For example,
Microsoft is positioning the SQL Azure database for small to medium-sized
businesses, Web 2.0 and ASP.NET developers with a pay-as-you-grow database
solution. … We are likely to see smaller and departmental apps … over the
next year, then moderate-sized but less mission-critical apps [in about one
to two years], and then mission-critical apps in about three to four
years.”"

But the non-SQL large scale databases could have applicatios in new and fast
approaching market segment - realtime (massive) analytics in the clouds.
Goodluck on your venture!.

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[Jim Starkey]

Sandeep wrote:
> Thanks for your post. All the scenarios you have mentioned are valid
> and in fact there will be many more scenarios depending on different
> situations. Enterprises will make their decisions based on many
> factors.
>
> Here is one article http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Database/Cloud-Database-Adoption-Proceeds-Slowly-Analysts-Say-352596/.
>
> At fundamental level we believe that model of "traditional (i.e.,
> relational, SQL) processing using a cloud platform" is going to be
> most viable for enterprises. But what we think is that customer should
> have complete freedom of using the underlying cloud platform when
> using this model. We also think that customer should also have
> complete freedom of choosing between traditional RDBMS and cloud
> platform without affecting their applications. That's what we are
> trying to achieve at Cloud2db. That's our business case.
>
>
>

While it it's certainly possible to put a layer that offers a degree of
common semantics against a variety of database systems, I don't think it
can, in fact, hide the differences between the systems. Let me explain.

All database systems have to handle not only data, but relationships
between pieces of data. For example, a personnel database has to handle
not only information about individuals, but also about the relationship
of individuals such as "person A reports to person B". How these
relationships are handled within a specific database system is what we
mean by data model. In an object oriented databases, the links are
explicit -- pointers or an analog of points. In a relational system,
the link are presented by common values. In a single table database,
the relationships are internal to a complex row.

To maintain relationships, some sort of concurrency/atomicity control is
required. In object databases, concurrency and atomicity are
application problems. In relational database systems, concurrency and
atomicity are handled automatically by formal transactions. In single
table databases, there are no relationships outside of a single row, a
transaction is a single row update.

In all cases, the data manipulation language (DML) is necessarily tied
to the data model. Object databases require a low level object to
object navigational language. Relational databases use a high level,
multi-row, multi-state DML, letting the transaction manager keep
everything straight under the covers. In a single table database, there
really isn't any concurrency control other than the atomicity of a
single row update, so it doesn't really matter.

Sure, you can put a SQL (or any other DML) layer on top of anything, and
to a large degree hide the differences. But it isn't possible to hide
the differences between data and concurrency models. You can do all
sorts of SQL operations on BigTable or SimpleDB, but, unlike a
relational system, there is nothing there to guarantee the integrity of
the relationship between data.

An application layered on SimpleDB or BigTable must be designed around
the features and constraints of SimpleDB or BigTable. An application
designed for a relational system, on the other hand, is designed with
the implicit understanding that a transaction manager is going to manage
record relationships. If you move that application to a system without
a transaction manager, it's going to run, but it isn't going to work
(meaning, specifically, preserving database consistency in the face of
concurrent updates).

So I understand completely how you can build a superficial SQL layer on
relational and non-relational systems, but since the concurrency and
consistency semantics are so different, I don't see what it buys you.

[Sandeep]

You are absolutely right about the data model and concurrency .

That's why Cloud2db has it's own abstracted data dictionary which
represents a data model. It also uses transactional capabilities of
underlying cloud database for concurrency and atomicity. Here is a
link for Google Big Table transaction capabilities.

http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/transactions.html

Obviously there will be improvements in transaction capabilities of
cloud databases in near future because industry will demand these
features from the vendors.

Also SQL & JDBC based access to cloud databases gives you standards
support which enables re-usability of existing tools & skill set. For
example we have ported a popular issue tracking system JTRAC to
Cloud2db from MySQL without changing anything in the code base which
uses Spring, Hibernate & Wicket. We also manage our Cloud2db instances
using Squirrel and model our Cloud2db instances using PowerArchitect.

See following links,

http://cloud2db.appspot.com/website/quickTourSquirrel.html
http://cloud2db.appspot.com/website/quickTourJtrac.html

On Dec 15, 12:17 pm, Jim Starkey <jstar...@nimbusdb.com> wrote:
> Sandeep wrote:
> > Thanks for your post. All the scenarios you have mentioned are valid
> > and in fact there will be many more scenarios depending on different
> > situations. Enterprises will make their decisions based on many
> > factors.
>

> > Here is one articlehttp://www.eweek.com/c/a/Database/Cloud-Database-Adoption-Proceeds-Sl....

> 978 526-1376- Hide quoted text -

[Rao Dronamraju]

Sandeep,

Here is an interesting article on (new) cloud database technologies and
applications that we discussed few threads back.

RainStor launches cloud database for big data archives
http://tinyurl.com/ygtgqsu