Pottery discipline
pi-ta
in art and education. It occurs to me I haven't been dialoging this
at all, and only continuing along by myself as a maker. Really though
the practice of pottery is not about me, is it? It is about
discipline and learning. Discipline, meaning to follow, and learning,
is misunderstood to be about words, books, data, ideas, opinion, and
theory. With clay I follow the material, the forces, and learning,
there is an integration of the maker and the material. Actually it is
art and education that is in demise, not pottery.
May Luk Ceramics
potters? It is expensive to run a ceramics dept and difficult to
recruit ceramic students. The ceramic dept in my school (Glasgow
School of Art) is closed as well as Harrow in London. (http://
www.studiopottery.co.uk/news_item.php?id=214)
Good Crafternoon
May
My version of discipline = grit. You will need it in art or education
or pottery.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/08/02/the_truth_about_grit/?page=full
Ric Swenson
ric
"...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..."
-Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III
Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher,
Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Institute,
TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.
JiangXi Province, P.R. of China.
Postal code 333001.
Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872
< RicSwen...@hotmail.com>
http://www.jci.jx.cn/
http://www.ricswenson.com
> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:09:43 -0700
> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: Pottery discipline
> From: maylukc...@gmail.com
> To: clay...@googlegroups.com
>
>
> If there's no schools to train ceramic students, where are the future
> potters? It is expensive to run a ceramics dept and difficult to
> recruit ceramic students. The ceramic dept in my school (Glasgow
> School of Art) is closed as well as Harrow in London. (http://
> www.studiopottery.co.uk/news_item.php?id=214)
>
> Good Crafternoon
> May
>
> My version of discipline = grit. You will need it in art or education
> or pottery.
>
> http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/08/02/the_truth_about_grit/?page=full
>
> > I often see comments about the demise of pottery, as a discipline and
> > at all, and only continuing along by myself as a maker. Really though
May Luk Ceramics
What is the demographic profile of these students? What are they
studying major-wise and what are they going to do? Are they going to
be future studio potters?
Like in Japan, there is a ceramic industry to support the students for
future work in Jingdezhen. There're the appreciation for pottery and
big export business. There's also knowledge needed in the fields of
restoration and research because of the rich history of pottery in
China.
In Stoke-on-Trent, you can get a Ph.D in ceramics, but I doubt the
Ph.D's are going to be studio potters. They are scientists! The fact
is Wedgwood is manufacturing in China, we don't know if they can
survive the re-structuring. The Midlands is a waste land (ugly and
economically depressed like Little Britain) if there is no tourists to
go see the potteries.
If it's so good, why the children of the pottery workers (hard labour
type) in Jingdezhen are going to the cities for universities and study
something else?
The bottom line, pottery is donkey work and generate below average
income (checked it in the library) , it makes sense to think hard
about it before one spends thousands of dollars in college tuition on
it.
Regards
May
Brooklyn NY
That's only my take. My parents are non-English speaking immigrants in
the US and they worked very hard to send me to college. You can
understand my position. I am already very spoiled to do what I pleased
and go to art schools. but I always have to keep an eye on profits
(haha! as if) because I have responsibilities.
On Aug 20, 7:54 pm, Ric Swenson <ricswenson0...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> No shortage of ceramics students here in Jingdezhen....14,000 students studying here now at the Jingdezhen Ceramics Institute...Xi Ciao...another smaller art/design/ceramics college has 6,000 students....and another in Jingdezhen has an enrollment of about 5,000.
>
> ric
>
> "...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..."
>
> -Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III
>
> Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher,
> Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Institute,
> TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.
> JiangXi Province, P.R. of China.
> Postal code 333001.
>
> Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872
>
>
> http://www.jci.jx.cn/http://www.ricswenson.com
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:09:43 -0700
> > Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: Pottery discipline
>
> > If there's no schools to train ceramic students, where are the future
> > potters? It is expensive to run a ceramics dept and difficult to
> > recruit ceramic students. The ceramic dept in my school (Glasgow
> > School of Art) is closed as well as Harrow in London. (http://
> >www.studiopottery.co.uk/news_item.php?id=214)
>
> > Good Crafternoon
> > May
>
> > My version of discipline = grit. You will need it in art or education
> > or pottery.
>
> > On Aug 16, 5:46燼m, pi-ta <petersart2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I often see comments about the demise of pottery, as a discipline and
> > > in art and education. 營t occurs to me I haven't been dialoging this
> > > at all, and only continuing along by myself as a maker. Really though
> > > the practice of pottery is not about me, is it? 營t is about
> > > discipline and learning. Discipline, meaning to follow, and learning,
> > > is misunderstood to be about words, books, data, ideas, opinion, and
> > > theory. With clay I follow the material, the forces, and learning,
> > > there is an integration of the maker and the material. Actually it is
> > > art and education that is in demise, not pottery.
>
> Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx
Ric Swenson
'Studio potters' is a term not often used here in China....although the concept is rapidly growing....most study traditional Chinese forming, decoration, design for table or for art....they come here to study art and design....a few come tolearn about language and international trade...many come to become ceramic engineers...on the cutting edges of materials science....glorified geologists....hehe. They come from villages...towns and cities all over China....they have almost NO chance to travel in China let alone the world...They are learning from the internet...about the world outside....
Most of the WORKERS here do ONE thing...throw...or trim...or decorate....or fire kilns....they have real jobs.....Some...the most talented...become designers...creative thinkers....they travel abroad and soak up Western theory....
With so many people here...1.4 Billion....people are mostly happy to have work...and eat... and have a family...
Some will be fortunate enough to become famous through their decorations ..... throwers do not have the status to become famous...and decorators / painters... will teach or produce works that sell for high prices...they are the few that will someday own a car and a house of their own.
My oral English students want to become succesful in doing business...or becoming English teachers, or tour guides. My ceramics grads want to find work in a company that needs their design skills...and a few dream of being a studio potter...with their own workshop.
Most of my English students are young women....who at age 20 have never been on a date....they are too busy studying to triffle with love....it is a different world in some ways...
always interesting...far from my Iowa roots and Anchorage up-bringing....
Ric
"...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..."
-Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III
Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher,
Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Institute,
TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.
JiangXi Province, P.R. of China.
Postal code 333001.
Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872
> Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: Pottery discipline
Richard Mahaffey
the largest division in the Art Department. We normally run three sections
and have quite a bit of open studio time for students to work outside of
class. When we have enough recycled clay there is no charge to use it.
We have two workstudy students who recycle clay in our deairing pugmill and
a studio Technician. Our clay club has two sales a year and has endowed a
scholarship for students who wish to pursue a degree in ceramics. We teach
hand building and wheel throwing, but leave sculpture to the sculpture
class. We have three gas kilns, a raku kiln and three electric kilns in our
covered kiln yard. We could use more studio space and could then add a
fourth section of ceramics. We train students to make pots and if they go
on far enough in our program we have them do some series production. Both
teachers are/have been studio potters and continue to make and exhibit work.
The ceramics classes run anywhere from 154% to 127% of the cap in the class.
We offer a six quarter program which takes two years to complete plus there
is a class for independent study where students can investigate a special
problem. Our students learn to fire our kiln, and through the clay club
participate in soda and wood fire. Our clay club hosts two to three
workshops each year (Hank Murrow was a presenter for our students).
We also take students abroad to an international ceramics conference and do
exchanges with universities overseas during a two week period in the summer.
Next year we have Tokyo National University of Fine Art coming with 15
students and one or two teachers for the intensive two week program where
our students will work alongside the students from Tokyo.
Having talked to folks in the UK it seems that someone wants to destroy the
ceramics programs there. (I know some of the folks from Harrow) it seems
only University College for the Creative Arts in Farnham is in good shape,
due in no small part to the efforts of Magdalene Odundo (who was made OBE in
the last couple of years).
So to answer your question institutions like TCC are hard at work training
the next generation of potters.
Rick Mahaffey
Tacoma, WA
Lee
full before I could announce it.
Folks who study there are there for the love of clay
and not for credit or a job. The begginer wheel work always struck
me as being better than the beginning wheel work at the UofMN.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a
faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant
and has forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein
Richard Mahaffey
better work there.
Many students at TCC start for the credit, but many in our area had clay
class in High school and they want to continue. The ones who go on to our
full program and then a 4 year school are in it for the love of clay and
creating.
Rick
Lee
Mahaffey<rickma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Lee, perhaps it is the environment at NCC that causes the beginners to make
> better work there.
No doubt.
At the U, I ran into some BFAs looking for a easy 3D clays.
They rarely liked getting dirty or cleaning up. The most
enthusiastic folks were taking extension classes. They were only
there for the clay. After the beginning classes and "weeding out",
the pots became much better.
Eric Alan Hansen
higher education in ceramics has shifted to the purely visual aspects
of clay-as-art, as opposed to either craft or industrial design of
functional things. This has two root causes (1) in our society we have
lost touch with how things are put together and how things are made.
We cant build and make even market driven items like cars and TV's
competitively. We aren't in the competition in most things on the
market. Banking was supposed to serve as the white knight as the
decline in industrial and manufacturing increased. Oops! (2) The arts
aren't funded like they used to be in higher education in general.
This is partly because the industrial base which once used these
institutions as research and development engines don't have the
momentum, but also because financial institutions which is where the
emphasis has shifted see their role very differently, they don't
require lab research. Thus, money for higher education has been less
likely to fund the arts (or even I dare say, "Arts and Letters"), and
more likely to accumulate in banks. Most endowment funds are at record
levels today, while programs continue to get cut.
Anyway, the shift in pottery education has moved towards 2-year
community colleges, community-supported art centers, pottery co-ops,
and privately owned pot shops which offer studio space, classroom
instruction, open studio, communal firings, rental kiln space,
supplies and materials for sale. They make use of the clay community
for instruction, DVD's, workshops, demos, internet, books, etc. I
don't think there is any less of it going on - I think there is
probably more of it.
The fact that higher education has dropped the ball means they have
lost out on a lucrative "cash cow". Some schools continue to use the
pottery studio for elective courses, yet offer no major in craft. I
think Bill Schran recently posted to ClayArt describing the ins and
outs of the FTE formula. Art departments everywhere are hurting. The
1960's and the 1990's brought record enrollments in the arts, but it
is on the down-hill again.
The issue at stake is what can one do to help support, especially, the
visual arts, crafts, and design? Probably the best answer is some form
of community building. The cross-roads district in Kansas City and
Williamsburg in Brooklyn are two excellent examples. Forums like
ClayCraft and ClayCraft are too. I recently started a new forum called
the 2% group for Louisville's 1960's hip community who have moved on
to creative and community building careers. You get a sense of that in
some of my Facebook postings.
Richard Bresnahan (potter) recently discussed (in Chronicle of Higher
Education Review - I posted the details on my blog site) how higher ed
had better start getting involved in community building rather than
the old, student, graduate, alum pattern. He visualizes how one
becomes a life-time stake holder in the institution and it's services.
They may be forced to do this to survive, if they get the message.
p e a c e
h a n s e n
americanpotter.blogspot.com
On Aug 20, 7:09 pm, May Luk Ceramics <maylukceram...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If there's no schools to train ceramic students, where are the future
> potters? It is expensive to run a ceramics dept and difficult to
> recruit ceramic students. The ceramic dept in my school (Glasgow
> School of Art) is closed as well as Harrow in London. (http://www.studiopottery.co.uk/news_item.php?id=214)
>
> Good Crafternoon
> May
>
> My version of discipline = grit. You will need it in art or education
> or pottery.
>
Randall Moody
Northern Clay Center is hopping. The class I am group teaching was
full before I could announce it.
Folks who study there are there for the love of clay
and not for credit or a job. The begginer wheel work always struck
me as being better than the beginning wheel work at the UofMN.
--
Randall in Atlanta
Lee
>
> Richard Bresnahan (potter) recently discussed (in Chronicle of Higher
> Education Review - I posted the details on my blog site) how higher ed
> had better start getting involved in community building rather than
> the old, student, graduate, alum pattern. He visualizes how one
> becomes a life-time stake holder in the institution and it's services.
> They may be forced to do this to survive, if they get the message.
Maybe local clay centers and community colleges are better at
community building than Universities or Colleges.
Lee
> Richard Bresnahan (potter) recently discussed (in Chronicle of Higher
> Education Review - I posted the details on my blog site)
Eric, can you give us the link. I can't find it at your blog.
Lee
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Eric Alan Hansen<kansas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Richard Bresnahan (potter) recently discussed (in Chronicle of Higher
>> Education Review - I posted the details on my blog site)
>
> Eric, can you give us the link. I can't find it at your blog.
>
I found the article, but you have to subscribe or buy a day pass.
http://chronicle.com/article/Earth-WindFire/21274
Eric Alan Hansen
http://americanpotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-02-17T14%3A33%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7
I posted on Feb. 6. The edition is Feb. 13. I really don't knoe if I
still have the copy and even if i do getting a PDF on a large format
book will be a challenge, I may just have to xerox and snail mail.
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Lee<toge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Richard Bresnahan (potter) recently discussed (in Chronicle of Higher
> >> Education Review - I posted the details on my blog site)
>
> > Eric, can you give us the link. I can't find it at your blog.
>
> I found the article, but you have to subscribe or buy a day pass.
>
> http://chronicle.com/article/Earth-WindFire/21274
>
> --
Lee
>
> I did not post the whole article, only the cover shot.
>
> http://americanpotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-02-17T14%3A33%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7
>
Richard is fortunate, having the Brothers supporting him. That would
tend to create an automatic community.
I've been doing the Farmers Market to make contact with my
neighbors. I hope to do other things directly from my studio.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
pi-ta
Education suffers because the image of education is success. This is
true for students, teachers and the institutions. You probably have
wondered how you work, what you do, and what is actually at the root
of your skill and talent. Did you ever seriously see it as a
materialistic, quantitative, occupational activity? Why is the
materialistic, quantitative, approach to education in existence? It's
as if all the people involved in Education are not thinking and there
is some strange animal operating in a system, and everyone wants it to
survive at any cost.
bill geisinger
bill geisinger
Hank Murrow
On Oct 18, 2009, at 7:26 PM, pi-ta wrote:
> Education suffers because the image of education is success. This is
> true for students, teachers and the institutions.
Dear pi-ta;
I would like to relate a story concerning my first pottery teacher's
beginning(first day) lecture at the U of Oregon. Bob James said about
the kilns, "There is a priority system in place for the use of the
kilns(numbering six gas and five electrics); one who has never fired
a kiln has first priority, then liberal arts majors, then arts
majors, then ceramics majors, then ceramics grad students, then
ceramics GTFs, and last...... faculty."
Naturally, I took him up on the offer six weeks into my first
ceramics class, when he said the ware was piling up on the glaze
carts. So I loaded up the eight cuft Alpine with class ware and some
Voulkos pots left after his workshop a couple of weeks before. I was
staring at the Alpine at 10pm that night wondering when the cones
would 'come into view', when local potter David Stannard came 'round
the studio and asked how the kiln was doing.
I said, "The cones have not come into view yet, but it looks pretty
hot." David looked into the spy and said it did indeed look pretty
hot, and perhaps I should make a drawing on the blackboard of how the
kiln looked before I started firing............ and he left. I did
the drawing and soon figured that the cones had gone already and shut
it off. I came around to the studio @ noon the next day and someone
said, "Bob is looking for you." So I went to his office and he said,
"Looks like you got the Alpine pretty hot."
I related the visit with David and showed him the drawing on the
blackboard; and Bob pulled out his pocket watch and looked at it and
said, "If you could get started now, I think you might have it
repaired and firing again by dinnertime." Well, I replaced the five
SiC shelves which were broken and full of melted pots, replaced the
radiants, and salvaged the Voulkos pots(70% Lincoln 60 and 30% sand)
which remained unmelted and actually held up the shelves(Voulkos
later said those were among the best he ever had from a workshop!).
We later surmised that the fire had gone to around C18. If I had not
been a potter before that moment with Bob, I certainly was
afterwards. The permission to make decisions and fail(or succeed) was
the main thing with Bob(and David), and I have now built over 120
kilns and never overfired again.
I was so lucky in my beginnings to have teachers like Bob James,
David Stannard, Hamada, and the others I have mentioned here
before...... all of whom valued my learning over a piece of equipment
or the appearance of my work. I sometimes wonder if anyone has ever
been so lucky. David Stannard died this year @ 83 on August
30th....... a valued friend and teacher since 1958. He once said to
me, "Hank, you're all starts and no beginnings". In the years since
his remark, I have pondered those words, and in doing so, found a
superb beginning.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
mary grace
thank you for that story. i appreciate it.
mg
rickma...@comcast.net
Hank,
I am glad that you survived your first experience with firing a kiln. It must be nice to have unlimited budget like Uof O must have had then.
In today's climate I would never turn a student loose on a kiln without any training and supervision. The dangers are just too great (to the student and the program, these days). I like to have more advanced students mentor the less experienced students that way they both learn!
We stress taikng care of equipment and thinking ( and getting a little training) before you use something. That way our equipment stays in good shape for the next user. This method begins to instill consideration for others IMHO.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "mary grace" <mary...@pacbell.net>
To: clay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:26:53 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: *ClayCraft* Re: Pottery discipline
Hank Murrow
On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:26 AM, mary grace wrote:
>
> dear hank-
> thank you for that story. i appreciate it.
Dear Mary Grace;
Sorry it was so long, but real learning does take awhile. When
recalling that day, I am always astonished at how my life path was
altered...... and I had no idea at the time!
In teaching at many institutions around and out of the country, I
have never found a supportive and clear-eyed pedagogy to equal what I
experienced at Oregon..... though I have tried to emulate the concern
for the student and their learning wherever I find myself.
Cheers, Hank
PS: What a lovely name you are blessed with!
Hank Murrow
Hank,I am glad that you survived your first experience with firing a kiln. It must be nice to have unlimited budget like Uof O must have had then.
In today's climate I would never turn a student loose on a kiln without any training and supervision. The dangers are just too great (to the student and the program, these days). I like to have more advanced students mentor the less experienced students that way they both learn!
We stress taikng care of equipment and thinking ( and getting a little training) before you use something. That way our equipment stays in good shape for the next user. This method begins to instill consideration for others IMHO.