Off to a slow start

[Michael Lorton]

I wanted to try out Circumflex and here's my experience so far:

1. The URL for GitHub was wrong -- or at least the HTTPS address
doesn't match the certificate
2. The download referred to from the home page is for a source tree,
not a JAR file
3. It uses Maven to build the JAR file. Maven? Seriously? What
happened to SBT?
4. So I use Yum to download maven. The biggest damn Yum download I've
ever seen.
5. I run Maven. It downloads *another* 30 Mb or something. I try not
to think about my AWS bill.
6. No, after all that, it decides it wants Maven3.
7. Apparently, there's no Yum for Maven3.
8. OK, screw it. I hate *regular* Maven, no way I'm going to be
messing around trying to get some beta version to work. Find a pre-
built JAR.
9. No help from Google, no help from the inboard search on
circumflex.ru. Apparently unlike every other project on the web, this
is *only* available in source.

Now I'm debating either trying to write my own SBT file for this, or
just using some other ORM...

[nowi...@gmail.com]

I agree with you, sbt is much better than maven. Since most scala projects use sbt, why not circumflex.
<div>Freewind，<A href="mailto:nowi...@gmail.com">nowi...@gmail.com</A></div><div>2011-2-12 </div>

[Kirill Zaborsky]

There is https://github.com/andreyshikov/circumflex-sbt-quickstart
though it looks like it sets Circumflex to 1.2 (as 2.0 has only RCs
but they are quite stable). On previous circumflex.ru version link to
this project was on the site but now I could find it only in
Circumflex README.md
And BTW circumflex is not only ORM

Kind regards,
Kirill Zaborsky

2011/2/12 Michael Lorton <malvo...@gmail.com>:

[Stanislav Lakhtin]

Hello, Michael.

0. The URL for GitHub is correct.
1. You could look at this project.
https://github.com/andreyshikov/circumflex-sbt-quickstart
It can be useful to you.
2. You could try to create your own sbt file for circumflex. As you know circumflex is OpenSource project and you can help others.
3. Of course, you can use any other ORM. You can use that one you prefer.
4. We appreciate the own work. You can hate anything. Why should we know it?

Best regards,
Stanislav Lakhtin.

12.02.2011, в 4:23, Michael Lorton написал(а):

[Malvolio]

The URL points to the source tree, yes, but the certificate there is meant for a different URL.  You have to disregard the warning, always a bad thing.

The quick-start project does look useful.  I'm going to try to use SBT.  If I get an SBT file that works for me, should I post it here so others can use it?

I looked at several ORMs and Circumflex's looked like the best (just from the documents) but my first three hours were nothing but wrestling with installation.  If Circumflex were my project, it would pain me that all the work I did was going for naught because an otherwise useful product was impossible to install.

M.

2011/2/12 Stanislav Lakhtin <s...@whiteants.net>

[Stanislav Lakhtin]

Hello Michael,

You always have possibility to download jar (if you want) on corresponding page. For example, http://circumflex.ru/projects/orm/index.html

See on the bottom of page. But Circumflex isn't only ORM. This is a complex thing and we make it useful for complex projects. 

Best regards,

Stanislav Lakhtin.

12.02.2011, в 12:06, Malvolio написал(а):

[Boris Okunskiy]

Maybe I'll go a little off, but...

What is does the "SBT-ready project" mean? AFAIK, sbt is a build platform (if people tend to compare it with Maven) and people swear that it is Maven-friendly. Well, do I need special instructions on how to set up my Maven project to use any library available in Central Maven Repo? -- Nope. I just go ahead and add a few lines into my pom.xml. What is so special in setting up SBT then? Especially if people insist that it is way better than Maven.

Okay. Now what problems do you have with visiting secure sites? No, seriously, folks. I do understand that visiting an HTTPS site means way more work for your browser, but... Needless to say that setting up a free account at GitHub and starting to watch libs of your choice is a pretty easy option everyone can afford. And since GitHub positions itself as "Secure source code hosting", you have to send all your complains directly to them. No offense meant.

Now straight to the Maven version. I run my apps (as well as compile install and deploy circumflex artifacts to Central Repo) with 2.2.1. Whatever components require Maven3 -- are not circumflex.

Well, I could really go ahead and comment all other claims, but I feel I should not. If you have something constructive in mind (advice, sbt snippet for sharing, etc.) -- you are welcome. The project is open source and you are free to contribute in any possible way.

Until then...

Best regards,
Boris Okunskiy

[Malvolio]

An Israeli friend of mine says Americans don't say what they mean, so I'm going to be very direct.  Read the following sentence and take it to heart:

Circumflex isn't even an ORM and it isn't, at the moment, useful for complex projects.   It isn't useful for simple projects.  What it is is an un-installable pile of code.

I wanted to try the ORM portion of it first, so I downloaded the ORM jar, and tried to build the sample code given on the web-site.

It said that I needed "core".  Well, that makes some sense.  Why that isn't mentioned anywhere I don't know, but modularization is usually a good thing, so I dug up the core Circumflex jar and tried the compilation again.

Then it gave me 490 lines of error messages, ending the following:

reference value sf of package net refers to nonexisting symbol

I'm not exactly clear on the scope of net.sf, but I know it's big, so I grep-ed through the source code I had downloaded earlier and it turns out I need net.sf.ehcache, which is part of the TerraCotta project.  No, seriously.  Their web-site wants me to join "the TerraCotta community" before I can download the damn JAR.

I don't really want to join "the TerraCotta community" but I would do it if I had any confidence that that was the bottom of the rabbit hole.  As it is, I feel like the victim of a Nigerian Scam, where I am constantly asked to just put a little more money in and then untold wealth will be mine.

I'm going to make this real simple for you.  When the following works, you may have at least an ORM that might be useful for simple projects.  Until then you either have a good idea or a brilliant scam.

$ wget http://repo1.maven.org/maven2/ru/circumflex/circumflex-orm/2.0.RC3/circumflex-2.0.RC3.jar
$ cat > Country.scala
import ru.circumflex.orm._

class Country extends Record[String, Country] {
  val code = "code".VARCHAR(2).NOT_NULL.DEFAULT("'ch'")
  val name = "name".TEXT.NOT_NULL
  def relation = Country
  def PRIMARY_KEY = code
}

object Country extends Country with Table[String, Country]

$ scalac -classpath circumflex-2.0.RC3.jar Country.scala
$

[Freewind]

I'm creating a sbt-version of scalaqa, with circumflex-2.0RC3. I think it will be helpful for people who new to circumflex and prefer sbt. When I finished, can developer add it to the README of circumflex?

 

 

2011-02-12

---

Freewind

---

发件人： Malvolio

发送时间： 2011-02-12  18:27:57

收件人： circumflex-scala

抄送：

主题： Re: Off to a slow start

[Boris Okunskiy]

Sure, we'd love to. 

Best regards,

Boris Okunskiy

2011/2/12 Stanislav Lakhtin <s...@whiteants.net>

I looked at several ORMs and Circumflex's looked like the best (just from the documents) but my first three hours were nothing but wrestling with installation.  If Circumflex weremy project, it would pain me that all the work I did was going for naught because an otherwise useful product was impossible to install.

[Boris Okunskiy]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I promise to take my time and think about everything I've just read.

In a meantime, the talk has become very subjective by now, so I really feel like putting a stop to it.

Neither me nor my teammates or community fellows "owe" you something. Your best bet is to try other Scala frameworks (or even switch to another development platform: Scala guys from EPFL still use Ant script for builds).

And good like with your complex projects!

Best regards,

Boris Okunskiy

[Stanislav Lakhtin]

Hello M,
Probably, we have various idea about what is that.
I will be very direct too. And you try to remember it and can transfer to the friends in any country.
I have read your text and IMHO it isn't straightforwardness, it is roughness.
You can like or hate something - it's your own business. We appreciate our work and are guided by logic.

Best regards,
Stanislav Lakhtin

12.02.2011, в 13:27, Malvolio написал(а):

[Malvolio]

I appreciate that and wonder if you might put that on your website.  "Your best bet is not to use Circumflex."  I know it would have saved me six hours or so.

Another possibility would be to have a pre-built version.  Or fix your build system to work with an released version of Maven.  Or with SBT.  Or with Ant.

If not, what are you doing?  Why spend your time making a product no one can use?

M.

2011/2/12 Boris Okunskiy <inca...@whiteants.net>

[Stanislav Lakhtin]

Let's finish? 

Best regards,

Stanislav Lakhtin

12.02.2011, в 14:52, Malvolio написал(а):

[Boris Okunskiy]

> I appreciate that and wonder if you might put that on your website.

Yeap, very funny.

Now, if you value your time so much, stop wasting it on us. We do not deserve it.

Best regards,
Boris Okunskiy

[Malvolio]

Don't worry about me.  It's four in the morning and I can't sleep anyway.

But it occurs to me that you might not have have seen this.

"You can either use negative comments to get you down or use them to excite you and energize your process."

M.

[Brian Moseley]

I think the implicit assumption on the part of the development team is
that people are using maven to build their own projects, so it's a
matter of adding a single dependency on cx to your own pom file to
bring in cx and it's transitive dependencies. if this is true, then it
wouldn't have taken you six minutes, let alone six hours, to make the
code you demonstrated earlier compile.

as others have mentioned, the sbt quickstart project is a good
template for when you are using sbt as your build system.

if you aren't using sbt or maven as your build system, then yeah,
you're going to have to work harder. I don't know that many people in
the world do that, though. how do you build your complex project?
maybe knowing that could help people offer you useless suggestions.
otherwise, you're just being cranky for the sake of it, which doesn't
help anyone, least of all you.

2011/2/12 Malvolio <malvo...@gmail.com>:

[Brian Moseley]

less useless suggestions, that is.

2011/2/12 Brian Moseley <b...@maz.org>:

[Malvolio]

If my problem were that Circumflex needs Maven and I refuse to use it, yes, I think that would be a sign I should move on.

As far as I can tell

1. the current version of Circumflex cannot be brought into a Maven project, but has to be built by hand
2. the current version of Circumflex cannot be built by Maven, only by Maven3
3. Maven cannot be installed with ordinary install tools like yum and apt-get
   
4. Maven3 cannot co-exist with Maven2

I could be wrong with any or all of those statements, but I'm reasonably sure that none of them could be verified or falsifed from the Circumflex website.

Look, I have an utterly blank machine.  Nothing on it but the OS. It's CentOS but I'm willing to swap in about any other Linux distro.  What are the set of steps to get Circumflex to do anything?


M.

[Malvolio]

(Step 3, that's Maven3, of course.)

M

[Stanislav Lakhtin]

You can look at it
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QzxSQtxapZqMvmPU4SiKfGWJfoNECTZctGyLHnHJXUc/edit?hl=ru&authkey=CPz05KwO
It can be useful.
Sorry about not pure english language. It is a draft.

best regards,
Stanislav Lakhtin.

12.02.2011, в 20:48, Malvolio написал(а):