Willpower

[Cheshire Matt]

Andrew's comment about sloe gin being drunk after preferably 12months
of maturing got me thinking...

I know cider making is a game of patience, but how do people manage to
resist the temptation/pace themselves to make their stuff last?

I've been at times accused by the wife of "not liking" some of her
fruit wines, but only because I think there's a few bottles left of
the very good stuff that should be saved.

In terms of this years cider and perry, we've dispatched about 7 or 8
litres of cider and 5 of perry so far this season. On the basis the
rest of it doesn't go bad, less the stuff we give away in the barter
economy, less the good stuff we just have to hold back... I _really_
can't see how it's going to last until 2010 picking, let alone
pressing and/or seeing us through to when the 2010 batch is ready!!

Any amusing tips or hints? M

[Vicky]

I think that all depends on how much you make and how much you are
likely to drink on a daily basis! We still have 20 or so gallons left
from 2008 therefore the problem for us is how do we drink it all to
make room for the 2009 stuff which needs the barrels.

Vicky

2009/12/30 Cheshire Matt <goo...@camelid.net>:

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[Andrew Lea]

Vicky wrote:
> I think that all depends on how much you make and how much you are
> likely to drink on a daily basis! We still have 20 or so gallons left
> from 2008 therefore the problem for us is how do we drink it all to
> make room for the 2009 stuff which needs the barrels.

I am also in the same fortunate position with enough production to more
than cover the needs of myself, family, friends, the postman etc...

[Indeed I have a (bottled) backlog going back to the Millennium now and
although I tend to use the older stuff for cooking or (as New Year's Eve
approaches) mulling, I probably have enough to make it worth bulking and
re-working / re-fermenting whenever I get the time and a bit of fresh
juice].

One odd thing I notice is that, despite unlimited access, my own
consumption pattern is very inconsistent. There will be weeks when I
drink no cider at all and even spend good money on wine as an
alternative instead! Then suddenly I get a yen for my own production
again and several bottles will disappear in fairly short order. I guess
we all need some 'diversity' in our lives!

Andrew

[Stephen Hayes]

I will say this, there is a risk of fruit wines particularly going 'stale',
I donmlt mean oxidised or vinegary, these faults ahve been discussed at
length, I mean a loss of fruitiness and zest. I think blackberry wine, for
example, is best drunk the winter after it is made.

but trial and error, and personal preference

Stephen

[from Heather]

I've been on a brew making forum recently, which also talks about wine (mostly fruit), mead, and cider. The mead makers there comment that sometimes a blackberry melomel takes a good 10 years to be drinkable. So between that and your comment, I'm gathering that blackberries are hard to work with.  Well, good thing they are a weed in this part of the world.

PS - I'm glad I found you craft makers first, as that forum is beer makers "making" cider and it is appalling. To think I could have developed their bad habits of chaptilzation, drinking a cider 6 weeks after starting it, and other uncrafty things.

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[Stephen Hayes]

 

Heather wrote >>>> I'm gathering that blackberries are hard to work with.  Well, good thing they are a weed in this part of the world.<<<

not at all, I have made a lot of fruit wines in the past but blackberry is the only one I bother with now. Its good, just needs to be drunk young. A little elderberry can 'stiffen' it, pure elderberry is too 'dark' for me, but adds something to blackberry. I made a gallon of blacbberry and apple this year, adding blackberries t apple juice and chaptalising to SG 1110 plus a wine yeast. nice.

 

 

Stephen

[Mark Shirley]

> In terms of this years cider and perry, we've dispatched about 7 or 8
> litres of cider and 5 of perry so far this season. On the basis the
> rest of it doesn't go bad, less the stuff we give away in the barter
> economy, less the good stuff we just have to hold back... I _really_
> can't see how it's going to last until 2010 picking, let alone
> pressing and/or seeing us through to when the 2010 batch is ready!!
>
> Any amusing tips or hints? M
>

I'd like some tips on how to make cider and perry that's ready to drink in
such a short time! No matter what style I make I've never managed to produce
anything ready to drink before March at the earliest, and it's usually
better by July/August time. What am I doing wrong?

Mark
http://rockinghamforestcider.moonfruit.com/
http://rockinghamforestcider.blogspot.com/

[jez....@btinternet.com]

I think some people like the yeasty taste of such young cider... I gave personally witnessed Mr Hayes supping on new cider and enjoying it - not that I don't like tasting it, I would just prefer it to be mature!

As I have a disabled daughter, I generally tend to live through the week on the basis that I have to be able to drive. This has dictated my drinking habits to a large part - so I have usually lots to give away (and sell... As soon as I can get round to it and hoping the tories don't do away with cider altogether!)

Needless to say, my daughters nurses and our builders had some little gifts this Christmas!

Seriously though, my reckoning is that I need about 200 litres per year for myself, family and friends.

All the best

Jez
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

[joseph margevicius]

Sorry if this take the discussion somewhat off-thread, but Andrew you mention "mulling" and "reworking/refermenting" as uses for some of you older cider production. Forgive me, but what is "mulling" and "reworking"? I am not familiar with either concept. I am in the same boat with some of my earlier and experimantal production.
Thanks alot.

 

 

 

 

 

 
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:58:40 +0000
> From: y...@cider.org.uk

> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Willpower
>

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[Andrew Lea]

joseph margevicius wrote:
> Sorry if this take the discussion somewhat off-thread, but Andrew you
> mention "mulling" and "reworking/refermenting" as uses for some of you
> older cider production. Forgive me, but what is "mulling" and
> "reworking"? I am not familiar with either concept. I am in the same
> boat with some of my earlier and experimantal production.
> Thanks alot.

Stephen has the best recipe for mulling, which is the one I follow. So
maybe he should speak to this. In essence you are heating cider with
extra sugar or juice and a dose of spices (eg cinnamon, allspice) to
provide a warming winter drink. Hence if the cider is not top quality it
hardly matters.

'Rework' is common in all production industries, no less in food and
drink than elsewhere since it saves on waste. In the context of cider,
old product (so long as not tainted) can be refermented with yeast after
addition of sugar or fresh juice. The yeast metabolises and 'reduces'
the stale and oxidised volatile components such as ethyl acetate and
acetaldehyde so a newly freshened cider is the result. But you can only
do this if the cider is fundamentally sound, not if it's affected by
'mouse' or anything alien that cannot be broken down and restored by yeast.

Andrew

[from Heather]

Here in the states, you can actually buy mulling spices packets for use in wine or "cider", though they usually mean fresh apple juice as a non-alcoholic drink. If I remember correctly (my husband did it two years ago), the packets are a lot like a tea bag, so you put the wine or cider in a pot and then toss in the bag.


> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:12:48 +0000

> From: y...@cider.org.uk
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Willpower
>

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[from Heather]

Oh, in fact, both Ben Watson and Annie Proulx and Lew Nichols' books contain recipes for mulled cider.

AP&LN calls for:

2cinnamon sticks
2 quarts dry, aromatic cider
dash of orange bitters
1/2 teaspoon allspice
6 whole cloves
1/2 cup jasmine, clover, or orange-blossom honey
1/2 cup light rum

(Paraphrased) Put all ingredients into a heavy enamel pan. Heat the mixture over a low fire, but do not let if boil. When it is steaming hot, strain the mulled cider into a bowl. Put a Cinnamon stick in each mug like a swizzle stick, pour cider into the mug, and serve immediately.


Ben Watson:

1/2 gallon sweet cider (unfermented)
4-6 cinnamon sticks
6 cardamon pods, crushed
1 whole nutmeg, cracked open
10-12 whole cloves
6 allsprice berries (optional)
4-6 start of anise pods (optional)
Zest of 1/2 lemon or 1/2 orange
Orange slices for garnish.

(also paraphrased) Put cider, spices, and zest into a large, nonreactive pot and bring to a boil over medium heat. Reduce the heat and simmer gently for 15 minutes. Strain the pieces out and return fluid to the pot over very low heat. Add the orange and serve hot. Some people add about 1 1/2 cups of rum or brandy to mulled cider after straining, then return it to a boil before reducing the heat. Serves 8 to 10.


No wonder they sell little tea bags of mulling spices...

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Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] Willpower
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:23:24 +0000

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[Vicky]

2009/12/30 Andrew Lea <y...@cider.org.uk>:

I'm very interested by this, what proportion juice to old cider would
you use to re-ferment?

We're otherwise the same although our cider is always available the
quantity consumed varies and beer/wine/whisky is usually also on hand!

Vicky

[Nick at Ciderniks]

Hi Mark

I'm not sure that an early drinkable cider can be forced, but this year, 50 gallons of juice that I pressed in September fermented down quickly and started to clear. Having run out of last year's cider and knowing I had some Christmas fairs to do in late November/ early December I tried racking it off in mid-October and then again a couple of weeks later. By this time the cider was almost clear and didn't taste bad at all, albeit a bit acidic.

So in early November I pumped it into 5 gallon barrels with a view that I would at least have some cider to mull. By mid-November it was tasting better so I bottled 10 gallons or so and labelled up as Cidre Nouveau (50 or so 75 cl bottles). These have just about all sold and helped pay for the new press! The acidity of the barrelled cider has now all but disappeared and left a fantastic tasting cider - it will be interesting to see if it stays like this when the weather warms in spring and the Cidre Nouveau grows up to become Combe Raider, but at the moment things are looking good.

I am not convinced that I could repeat this every year, but if i can, what a bonus!

Happy New Year

Nick

Nick Edwards
Ciderniks – Cider from Kintbury

E-mail: ni...@ciderniks.com
Telephone: +44 (0)7885 296789
Fax: +44 (0)7715 378966
Website: www.ciderniks.com

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