Cider... a statement

[JezH]

Hi all,

Given some ‘leakage’, I thought it would be wise to make a statement
to the group about a meeting that Matt Veasey (Cheshire Matt) and I
had at Westminster yesterday. It should hopefully be neither worrying
or negative to the cause of cider… but hopefully may result in some
action being taken.

Quite simply, Matt and I were invited to meet with one of the beer
lobbying MP’s at Parliament, following the growing noise in relation
to ‘beer vs cider duty equalisation’ that has been going on. Primarily
this comes out of SIBA and BBPA (the brewing associations) but CAMRA
signed up to it when they joined the ‘Save your Pint’ campaign against
the beer escalator (it is the other half of of the original campaign
and indeed has been a long stated objective of SIBA).

As a result, Matt and I had a fun day in London (taking in the Cider
Tap and Bree Louise) and met with the MP and his team to discuss an
idea around using the juice content of HMRC notice 162 to
differentiate between low juice and high juice ciders. When I say
ideas, there are several ways to look at juice content and the
implications need to be understood as well as the positive side.

It was also a great opportunity to restate the practical differences
between beer and cider and highlight the identity crisis that cider
has (plus make it clear that currently any attack on cider would hit
all cider makers – not just industrial ciders).

I believe that the argument is a good one (I have been banging on
about juice content for over a year or so now) but I have to say a big
thanks to Andrew Lea, Tom Oliver and Ray Blockley for sense checking,
tearing up and rewriting parts of the document that supported the
argument.

Whilst I cannot tell you much more than this, I can say that it was
taken well and we hope that some activity/wider discussion around this
concept will take place.

Please do feel free to agree/disagree, get on board with it etc. We
realise that we did this quietly, but in all honesty it wouldn’t have
worked by committee. There is an opportunity for traditional cider be
differentiated (I doubt ‘separated’ though) from other cider/fruit
cider/pear cider… let’s see where it takes us:-)

All the best

Jez

PS - Cider Workshop doesn't do campaigning... although this doesn't
stop members from campaigning themselves. Whilst many cider drinking
members of CAMRA will be frustrated with APPLE, I do understand that
they are sympathetic to these ideas (not that they give much
information away!!) If we can get to state that they are on board then
there is a vehicle to focus any campaign through... but that is up to
each person:-)

[Ray Blockley]

Well said, Jez - but I'd like to flag up the sterling and leading work that you and Matt did in all of this.

 

Having been privy to the documents presented as they were assembled and evolved, credit has to be given to everyone who worked on this - it was a very professional job - but particularly to Jez and Matt.

 

Our stalwart knowledgeable "backroom boys" (Andrew & Tom) just helped reinforce this whole presentation, meeting and discussion to give it rationale and integrity.

 

Well done to all. Onwards and upwards.

 

Cheers, Ray

 

--------

Ray B

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[Ted Bruning]

Great act of treachery by CAMRA, and well done you all for taking up the cudgels on everyone's behalf! Rather underlines Tim Beer's stance, though, that we need an organisation specifically to promote/lobby for "traditional" cider (which we might now rechristen "high-juice" cider).

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[skidbro...@tiscali.co.uk]

Hi Jez and Matt

It is very refreshing to hear about anybody getting up and confronting a problem rather than just moaning and shouting from the touchline. As you know I have slightly more on my plate than I can comfortabley deal with as it is at the moment but I am very grateful and impressed by what you have done. I hope that you will find the time to carry on and that your efforts will help us all.

Thanks to Tom and Ray and of course Andrew whose altruistic dissemination of knowledge and wisdom I continue to marvel at!

Keep it up.

Cheers

Guy (high juice) Williams

[Cheshire Matt]

Thanks Guy - your words of support for doing something are appreciated. Still early days, and there's been quite a lot of feedback and issues which need to be addressed. But as you say, even if nothing comes of this initiative, at least it's been shown it's possible to do something.

> all cider makers û not just industrial ciders).

[Alexander Peckham]

Hello Jez.

I am a great fan of the Cider Workshop and wanted to follow up your post relating to juice content in cider.  We have the same issue here in NZ where we are one of the few makers of pure juice ciders.

I was recently talking with a "craft" brewery who knock out 120,000l of cider a year in one 6000l tank using rapid fire apple wine ferments.  They use cheap culinary rejects.

I can make 6000l a year in the same size tank using expensive tree ripened fruit - much of it from apples we grow  ourselves.

It's very hard to compete when so many punters just assume their cider is made from 100% juice.

My own feeling is that the apple wine based ciders are just perpetuating a vicious cycle.  Their drink is cheap and is overtaking the rtd as the binge drink for young people ... another generation who will associate cider with vomit.

As in the UK, the relationship between cheap cider and youth binge drinking is attracting attention from the health lobby, who do not differentiate our pure juice ciders in 500ml bottles from the cheap stuff in 1250ml plastic "riggers".

We need to do something locally to emphasis that all ciders are not created equal.  Is there any chance that you could share your "report" with me?

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Alex