Sucralose

[Andrew Lea]

Mark wrote:

> Incidentally, I assume that Sucralose is still not on the prescribed list of
> addiditves for cider, and is therefore not allowed in a cider for sale.

I understood that the NACM had asked HMRC to include sucralose (E995) in
Notice 162 but I'm not sure if it's actioned yet. Perhaps Nick could
advise the current status?

Andrew

--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk

[Nick Bradstock]

Sucralose (E955) is permitted in Sn 25 of Notice 162 to the limit set by
Food Regulation (which I think is 200mg/litre). See:
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?
_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&propertyType=document&columns=
1&id=HMCE_CL_000207#P826_89143
BW
Nick

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Cider Workshop
group.
To post to this group, send email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com
To unsub from this group, send email to
cider-worksho...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cider-workshop?hl=en

[Andrew Lea]

Thanks Nick. It's good to see an updated online version of Notice 162 at
last. October 2009 - can't get much more recent than that!

Andrew

[Nick Bradstock]

Yes Andrew
I think we'll be seeing more frequent updates now that the Notice is
'electronic'...
BW
N

[Bob Honey]

I missed out on this somewhere along the line, so I apologise for
asking the question, what is sucralose? It sounds as if it might be a
means of sweetening without promoting fermentation (he adds hopefully!)
Bob Honey
hon...@btinternet.com
07774 284499

[Ray Blockley]

Hi Bob,

Yes it is non-fermentable. But it is very expensive - BUT you only need a
tiny little bit. So costs more the Saccharin but has none of the adverse
taste effects that Saccharin is supposed to have.

Ray
http://hucknallciderco.blogspot.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Honey" <hon...@btinternet.com>
To: <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Sucralose

[David Llewellyn]

> Nick Bradstock wrote:
>> Sucralose (E955) is permitted in Sn 25 of Notice 162 to the limit
>> set by
>> Food Regulation (which I think is 200mg/litre).

If 200mg/l is correct, that is a level which gives a very sweetening effect,
more than anyone would ever want in a cider, in my opinion. Having
experimented myself, I find that the equivalent of 50mg/litre gives a
noticeable, and adequate sweetness.

David L.

[Nick Bradstock]

Thanks David
I haven't been able to do more than a cursory search at:
http://search.food.gov.uk/search?site=default_collection&client=fsa_gov&outp
ut=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=fsa_gov&q=sucralose
This shows that the following limits were proposed for sucralose in 2001
(NOTE: the final regs may show different levels):

Cider and perry 250 mg/l
Alcohol-free beer or with an alcohol content not exceeding 1.2% vol 250 mg/l
‘Bière de table/Tafelbier/Table beer’ (original wort content less than 6%)
except for ‘Obergäriges Einfachbier’ 250 mg/l
Beers with a minimum acidity of 30 milli-equivalents expressed as NaOH 250
mg/l
Brown beers of the ‘oud bruin’ type 250 mg/l
Energy-reduced beer 10 mg/l
Spirit drinks containing less than 15% alcohol by volume 250 mg/l

I see that sucralose is accepted as being 500 - 600 times as sweet as
sucrose so 50 mg/l may well be quite enough!
Best wishes
Nick

[Andrew Lea]

Current (2006) EU Sweeteners Regs are here
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1994L0035:20060815:EN:PDF

Page 13 shows 50 mg/l as maximum permitted in cider and perry

The equivalent UK amendment is here
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043348.htm and says the same thing.

Helpful hint - the easiest way to get at EU and UK food law quickly is
to go via David Jukes's University of Reading website which is full of
the correct links! http://www.reading.ac.uk/foodlaw/

Andrew

Nick Bradstock wrote:
> Thanks David
> I haven't been able to do more than a cursory search at:
> http://search.food.gov.uk/search?site=default_collection&client=fsa_gov&outp
> ut=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=fsa_gov&q=sucralose
> This shows that the following limits were proposed for sucralose in 2001
> (NOTE: the final regs may show different levels):
>
> Cider and perry 250 mg/l
> Alcohol-free beer or with an alcohol content not exceeding 1.2% vol 250 mg/l

> �Bi�re de table/Tafelbier/Table beer� (original wort content less than 6%)
> except for �Oberg�riges Einfachbier� 250 mg/l

> Beers with a minimum acidity of 30 milli-equivalents expressed as NaOH 250
> mg/l

> Brown beers of the �oud bruin� type 250 mg/l

> Energy-reduced beer 10 mg/l
> Spirit drinks containing less than 15% alcohol by volume 250 mg/l
>
> I see that sucralose is accepted as being 500 - 600 times as sweet as
> sucrose so 50 mg/l may well be quite enough!
> Best wishes
> Nick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Llewellyn [mailto:pure...@eircom.net]
> Sent: 25 November 2009 07:51
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] Sucralose
>
>> Nick Bradstock wrote:
>>> Sucralose (E955) is permitted in Sn 25 of Notice 162 to the limit
>>> set by
>>> Food Regulation (which I think is 200mg/litre).
>
> If 200mg/l is correct, that is a level which gives a very sweetening effect,
> more than anyone would ever want in a cider, in my opinion. Having
> experimented myself, I find that the equivalent of 50mg/litre gives a
> noticeable, and adequate sweetness.
>
> David L.
>


--

[Nick Bradstock]

Many thanks Andrew for picking me up on that - that link really is helpful

BW
Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Lea [mailto:y...@cider.org.uk]

Sent: 25 November 2009 12:08
To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Sucralose

> ‘Bière de table/Tafelbier/Table beer’ (original wort content less than 6%)
> except for ‘Obergäriges Einfachbier’ 250 mg/l

> Beers with a minimum acidity of 30 milli-equivalents expressed as NaOH 250
> mg/l

> Brown beers of the ‘oud bruin’ type 250 mg/l

> Energy-reduced beer 10 mg/l
> Spirit drinks containing less than 15% alcohol by volume 250 mg/l
>
> I see that sucralose is accepted as being 500 - 600 times as sweet as
> sucrose so 50 mg/l may well be quite enough!
> Best wishes
> Nick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Llewellyn [mailto:pure...@eircom.net]
> Sent: 25 November 2009 07:51
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Cider Workshop] Sucralose
>
>> Nick Bradstock wrote:
>>> Sucralose (E955) is permitted in Sn 25 of Notice 162 to the limit
>>> set by
>>> Food Regulation (which I think is 200mg/litre).
>
> If 200mg/l is correct, that is a level which gives a very sweetening
effect,
> more than anyone would ever want in a cider, in my opinion. Having
> experimented myself, I find that the equivalent of 50mg/litre gives a
> noticeable, and adequate sweetness.
>
> David L.
>


--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk

[Roy Bailey]

In message <8C4C410E-A089-4D40...@btinternet.com>, Bob
Honey <hon...@btinternet.com> writes

>I missed out on this somewhere along the line, so I apologise for
>asking the question, what is sucralose? It sounds as if it might be a
>means of sweetening without promoting fermentation (he adds hopefully!)
>Bob Honey

It is a modified form of sugar by the addition of 3 chlorine molecules,
well described in Wikipedia. I suppose it could be claimed that it is
not a natural product and that chlorine is toxic, but a salt of
chlorine, common salt, is essential to life.

I managed to get hold of some sucralose a year or so ago and, by God, it
is sweet! Even a tasting few grains of the powder with a dampened finger
is very cloying, as it is 600 times sweeter than ordinary sugar.

To add it to cider/perry I put as much as would sit on the end of the
handle of a saltspoon in a litre container of the product and dissolved
it. This stock liquid was then added to a 5-gallon polybarrel 50 mls at
a time until the desired sweetness was achieved.

Not very scientific but it worked.

Roy.
--
Roy Bailey - Proprietor
The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
<www.lambournvalleycider.co.uk>

[Bob Honey]

Thanks Roy.
I do currently use a tiny amount of saccharin in our draught cider,
otherwise it is so very dry it would be unsaleable, and we are not
able to pasteurise yet, so apple juice is out of the question.
Two questions - where do I get an economic supply, and why should i
use it in place of saccharin?

Bob Honey
hon...@btinternet.com
07774 284499

[Roy Bailey]

In message <B4FC8EAD-C316-494E...@btinternet.com>, Bob
Honey <hon...@btinternet.com> writes

>Thanks Roy.
>I do currently use a tiny amount of saccharin in our draught cider,
>otherwise it is so very dry it would be unsaleable, and we are not
>able to pasteurise yet, so apple juice is out of the question.
>Two questions - where do I get an economic supply, and why should i
>use it in place of saccharin?

Sucralose can be purchased from the manufacturers, Tate & Lyle, but it
comes in large quantities and is expensive. I was fortunate enough to be
sent a sample which I estimate will keep me going for the rest of my
cider-making career. The other possibility is Splenda, which is a minute
amount of sucralose in a dextrin, but I can't remember if that will
re-start fermentation.

I think the taste of saccharin is horrible, and despite the fact that
award-winning producers use it (which tells you something about the
judges!), I would not entertain it.