Pomace uses
charlottetraynor
Well as I am reading recent posts it is evident that the apple season
is fast upon us! And with apple pressing comes apple pomace. I am
wondering what people's solution to the waste is?
We have 2 sows and are feeding the majority to them (this is plausible
for the time being while there are relatively few ripe apples, but I'm
not sure the pigs will be able to make it through the tonnes we will
be creating in a few months...) Does anyone else do this? If so, do
you limit their intake of pulp? Can it be detrimental in large
quantities?
We have toyed with the idea of drying the pulp to create apple
briquettes for the wood burner, but our experiments have been largely
unsuccessful and mouldy! I think we would need a much hotter and
drier climate (or else a VERY expensive equipment!) for this to work.
What does everybody else do...?
All the best,
Charlotte
from Heather
Could one dry the pulp for potpourri? What about fruit leather? Tea?
I'm just brainstorming here.
Heather
> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:30:53 -0700
> Subject: [Cider Workshop] Pomace uses
> From: charlott...@googlemail.com
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
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Dave
pulp. I gave them an unlimited supply and they seemed happy enough
with it, and even if they weren't they certainly tasted nice. I would
go so far as saying it was the nicest meat I have ever tasted.
I don't keep any pigs these days but have had a local pig farmer
collect the pulp from me for his. I don't quite know what happened to
him as he just stopped coming, even though he said he would. I guess
it was too much mither to cart the stuff.
Another one is going to take his place this year supposedly.
Other than that I spread it by hand on whatever fields I have empty at
the time. It may seem a waste but the hundreds of Fieldfares don't
think so. I love seeing those birds and as they are prepared to come
every year from Scandanavia just to see me I am more than happy to
feed them.
I did try mixing it with a pile of old straw one year to see if it
made compost. It didn't, but some interesting fungi popped up out of
it.
Whatever you do, don't put it in a big pile as it turns into an evil,
stinking, septic mess!
charlottetraynor
before feeding which resulted in a slightly manic and inebriated pig!
We have since endeavoured to feed it too them within a day or two
(^_^)
I like the brainstormings! One of the problems we have found though
is how to effectively dry the pomace for any of those purposes...
Hmmm
from Heather
I don't know if that story gives anyone ideas?
> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:02:57 -0700
> Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Pomace uses
> From: charlott...@googlemail.com
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
>
jez....@btinternet.com
All the best
Jez
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
Stephen Hayes
I doubt if pomace could be economically dried out enough to burn. Pig food
seems ideal. I have eaten some fruit/muesli bars which claimed it as an
ingredient
Bob Flowerdew gives a recipe for 'apple leather' which I think is dried
pomace dried out and stored for chewy eating. I'll see if I can look it out.
Probably it might be possible to ferment and distil, making a sort of apple
'marc' similar to the rough brandy 'schnapps' they make from spent grape
pressings which obviously do contain fermentable sugar, but this is of
course illegal in Britain.
We spread ours on the ground around the trees, it is all gone by the spring,
how much eaten by birds how much taken down by worms I have no idea. Since
we only press fruit from our own trees, there is never too much pomace to
dispose of in this way, but for someone buying in their fruit I can see
there might be a problem. Agree making a big pile is disgusting, I am sure
it ought to compost as part of a mix, getting the proportions right would be
the thing.
More research is required!!!!!
Stephen
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dave" <fishta...@fishtailparka.plus.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:56 PM
To: "Cider Workshop" <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Pomace uses
> In the past I kept half a dozen pigs for fattening and fed them on the
Ray Blockley
"Realcycle" sites - there are a number of other generic freebie sites too. I
put it into black plastic bags and leave it at the bottom of the drive and
folks come along and help themselves for pigs, cattle, chickens, ducks,
geese, etc etc.
Some I take up to our plot-cum-orchard and compost it / spread it about,
though last year word got around the local allotment folks who were queuing
up for it to add to their compost heaps / dig it in and/or mix in with all
sorts of other mouldy / smelly stuff. I just dumped trailer full's of bagged
up pomace at a central point and they helped themselves.
Ray.
http://hucknallciderco.blogspot.com/
http://torkardcider.moonfruit.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "charlottetraynor" <charlott...@googlemail.com>
To: "Cider Workshop" <cider-w...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:30 PM
Subject: [Cider Workshop] Pomace uses
Charlotte Traynor
Ray, I hadn't considered freecycle but that sounds ideal.
In terms of apple tree mulch, I had heard that there maybe some
disease implications? I suppose this may be redundant if you are
using pomace from your own apples and giving it back to the same
trees... We source the most of our apple crop from the local
community in a 'cooperative harvest' - giving them juice back for
their apples. Completing the cycle and giving them back pomace too as
Jez suggests would be brilliant, although perhaps logistically very
difficult if you do need to give them their own pulp back...
I'm a bit reluctant to spread it over our trees/use as compost here as
we do suffer from a lot of rats and the last thing they need is free
food!
AdamD
be mixed with a "brown" ingredient like straw or shredded cardboard in
roughly equal measures. Also it might possibly need lime adding as an
overly acidic environment is no good for the micro fauna that do the
composting. Hence the sometimes given advice that too much citrus
waste is detrimental the the composting process.
Andrew Lea
I used to compost mine with plenty of lime and other greenstuff. Now I
am too lazy and I just put it back around the trees as a thin dressing,
as do many others nowadays. Yes the fieldfares, blackbirds and the feral
pheasants love to pick it over! I am not sure there is a genuinely
increased disease risk to the trees - orchards are full of mould and
bacteria anyway - but perhaps someone can point to some proper
validated research somewhere. Even large commercial operations often
spread pomace back in the orchards and I'm sure they wouldn't if there
was a serious risk.
I have been in and around the apple processing industry for 40 years and
I have lost count of the number of times that utilisation of apple
pomace has come up as an 'added value' project proposal! Animal feed,
bioethanol, natural gas, citric acid, charcoal, pectin, food fibre &c
&c....
The core (!) problem is that it is so microbiologically unstable it must
be dried quickly if it is to be preserved. That is energy intensive and
costs money especially at the time of year when most apple pomace is
being generated! For many years Bulmers had a pectin plant where dried
pomace was extracted to provide food pectin but in the end it closed
down because the numbers (energy cost vs profit) just didn't make sense.
In some warmer areas of Europe I have heard that sun-dried pomace can be
used to feed biomass boilers and the numbers apparently stack up?
Feeding to livestock or compost / silage are the traditional uses and
are described in this link from Pollard and Beech's 1957 book
"Cidermaking" http://www.cider.org.uk/pomace_usage.pdf Fruit leathers
are all very well and there are plenty of patents and processes out
there, but since the best part (the juice) has already been squeezed out
they are not as good as those made from original fruit pulp.
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
David Llewellyn
handlable, and distilling for brandy? Is this actually done by anyone, or
would the numbers maybe not stack up there either, what with most of the
fermentable sugar already gone with the extracted juice? I'm talking about
fermenting without adding sugar back, as they do on the continent with the
pressed grape pulp, which is fermented and distilled to produce a speciality
brandy (grapa?).
David L.
nfcider
beef cows and calves,he has succesfully used it all through the winter
to supplement the bigbale barley straw he feeds in the circular feeder
in his yard.We have a supply of the builder's 1tonne looped bags which
we line with a new big bale silage bag,when pressing we pack the bag
with the pressed pulp,treading it in tightly to exclude the air.when
filled we seal the bag and stack them in the corner of a field and he
collects them as needed over the winter,this year he used the last one
in mid May and when opening it the pulp appeared sweet smelling,he
said the cows go crackers over it.I suppose it ensiles itself in the
bag.Bear in mind this year it should of some value because of the
shortage of feed because of the dry summer.
Barry
Andrew Lea
that if tightly packed it would ensile itself with no additives needed!
I'm so pleased to hear of it being used like that.
Andrew
Farmer
straight back to the orchard where the pigs had been put to graze any
missed fruit, absolutely hilarious to see a 6 foot long pig sleeping
off a hangover under a tree.
Farmer
nfcider
helps us when pressing,so we both benefit,interestingly up until that
point,we were leaving it in the corner of the field and then once a
year spreading it,and generally upsetting the neighbours with the
smell for a couple weeks with the smell.I did notice most years that a
crust formed and sealed the centre of the heap and I'm pretty certain
that it would have still been edible to cattle,though the outer crust
was disgusting,(luckily I could contain the run off so no ditch
contamination).A general observation of the mouldy edge of the heap
with the liquid draining out into the soil you had a mushy foul
smelling area,no doubt quite acidic,but I was amazed by the worm
activity ,in fact at that time a couple of the local anglers would
come and dig around the edge and take the big ones for bait ,it
prompted one of them to have a trailer load to start worm farming for
bait,so there are alternative uses and ideas if you look around ! I
think I'll stick to the current one though as it keeps the EHO and the
Environment Agency happy and uses it all up,as mother would say "waste
not want not !"
Barry
John C. Campbell III
jccampb
(snip)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Robert J. Hanlon
"there would be no world overpopulation problem if it took brains to breathe." Eric Walker
" Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.'"Sir Winston Churchill,
'There is no such thing as an underestimate of average intelligence' -Henry Adams
"competition is the lowest form of human interaction" Dr. W. Edwards Deming
"Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining thu."
charlotte traynor
one Barry! We had a farmer drop round yesterday to give us 60 kilos
of apples; he had a bit of a moan about the state of British farming
and the fact that it's being decimated by cheap foreign imports and
congratulated us on initiating our Cooperative Harvest apple scheme,
saying the future was all in smallholdings and community trade (I hope
so!). Anyway as we were talking he mentionned that his cattle usually
eat the windfalls so I offered his pomace back after pressing, so he's
coming back in a few days to collect his juice and pulp! Nice and
cyclical!
Someone else suggested to us that we trade the pomace for Horse
manure: feed for compost, which also sounds like and idea. It also
led us to wonder whether we could trade pomace for taking our pigs to
the boar... We'll soon see if our dispelled apple pulp is a genuine
commodity!
Cheshire Matt
classifying it as "trade waste"... Don't think we ever got to the
bottom of that one.
But then our council says we're not supposed to put foodstuffs in the
recycling bin - and then happily take it away because the weight of it
improves their recycling figures!!
Although I suspect this year most of ours will go over the hedge to the
bullocks.
nfcider
Make sure you line the big bag with a plastic liner bag as you won't
get the same result by just filling the big bag,as that allows an
element of air in through the woven polyester weave.The bags we line
with are standard heavy duty black plastic big bale silage bags that
some farmers use if they haven't got a bale wrapping machine,most
agriculteral merchants stock them(i.e.Mole valley farmers).The big bag
with the loops on is as an easy way of moving them around without
piercing the inner bag.
Barry
On Aug 20, 9:55 am, charlotte traynor
> Well, we do have quite a few tonne bags lying around, will try that
> one Barry! We had a farmer drop round yesterday to give us 60 kilos
> of apples; he had a bit of a moan about the state of British farming
> and the fact that it's being decimated by cheap foreign imports and
> congratulated us on initiating our Cooperative Harvest apple scheme,
> saying the future was all in smallholdings and community trade (I hope
> so!). Anyway as we were talking he mentionned that his cattle usually
> eat the windfalls so I offered his pomace back after pressing, so he's
> coming back in a few days to collect his juice and pulp! Nice and
> cyclical!
>
> Someone else suggested to us that we trade the pomace for Horse
> manure: feed for compost, which also sounds like and idea. It also
> led us to wonder whether we could trade pomace for taking our pigs to
> the boar... We'll soon see if our dispelled apple pulp is a genuine
> commodity!
>
>
>
>
> > Don't disparage that 'crust' ... I found sommat else to do with it years ago
> > ... spread a layer over any weeds / poison ivy, etc that you want to see the
> > end of and "Bob's yer uncle".
> > jccampb
> > (snip)
>
> > Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
> > Robert J. Hanlon
> > "there would be no world overpopulation problem if it took brains to
> > breathe." Eric Walker
> > " Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves
> > up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.'"Sir Winston Churchill,
> > 'There is no such thing as an underestimate of average intelligence' -Henry
> > Adams
> > "competition is the lowest form of human interaction" Dr. W. Edwards Deming
> > "Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining thu."
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > To post to this group, send email to cider-w...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > For more options, visit this group at
>
> - Show quoted text -
Steve Cooper
Any body want to buy a twin screw cider press?
Old screws with triple bar heads, will have oak beams, but
not sure about the bed,
No racks available though.
Steve Cooper
Tardebigge Cider
Tutnall
Bromsgrove
B60 1NB
07712 223371
01527 877946
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--
from Heather
Heather
from Heather
I'm hoping to do 100 lbs for my first pressing. Small, I know, but I still got to do something with the pomace.
I want to verify that it starts to smell if out in the garden. Does it? Does it help if it is burried? We had a bunch of stump griding done recently, and it is kind of like bark dust with dirt, so we were going to level it out, so I could bury the pomace with that. Does it get rid of weeds (sorry - I had to look up "Bob")? Cause I got weeds to kill and then use the stump grindings to fill!
But if it does stink, then I need to be going the cattle/pig option. There are farmers avertizing they want wormy apples for feed. I'll do the double trash sack bag into a trash can, probably use a smaller trash can so that I can lift it!
Heather
>Don't disparage that 'crust' ... I found sommat else to do with it years ago ... spread a layer over any weeds / poison ivy, etc that you want to see the end of and "Bob's yer uncle".
>jccampb
> Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Pomace uses
Ray Blockley
Andrew Lea
> Heather - It *will* smell... If left it will smell of vinegar but unless
> it is mixed with other stuff, anaerobic bacteria will turn the inner
> parts of any heap to a slimy, foul smelling mess (bad eggs, marsh-gas
> type smells = sulphurous activity). Andrew may be able to add more to
> this, I'm sure.
>
Not really. Ray has said it all. It will smell like any fruit waste
does, but not as fecal as animal waste might.
But I will just underline the fact that if kept damp pomace will become
unusable in a couple of days. If damp and aerobic it will go to vinegar
with likely some blue mould growth too. If damp and anaerobic it will
likely fester as Ray describes. So if you plan to use it, do so
immediately or make sure it is dried off. It will NOT store damp for
feeding to livestock unless it is properly ensiled (I posted a PDF link
on this before and Barry and others had useful info too).
Damp pomace is not the same as wormy apples. They will keep a while.
Pomace won't.
Andrew
--
Wittenham Hill Cider Pages
www.cider.org.uk
from Heather
Out of curiosity, about how much pomace do you think 100 lbs would make? I'm working on the assumption that 1 bushel = 45 lbs = 2-3 gallons of juice, so I'm looking at what? 60-80 lbs of pomace?
> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 13:05:43 +0100
> From: y...@cider.org.uk
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Pomace uses
Andrew Lea
> Out of curiosity, about how much pomace do you think 100 lbs would make?
> I'm working on the assumption that 1 bushel = 45 lbs = 2-3 gallons of
> juice, so I'm looking at what? 60-80 lbs of pomace?
>
Forget bushels, gallons and all that stuff. Think in percentages. We
know that a reasonable pack press (even home-made) gives a 70% yield. So
if you start with 100 lbs of apples you should end up with 70 lbs of
juice and 30 lbs of pomace. If you really get 80 lbs of pomace and only
20 lbs of juice your Dad has a lot of explaining to do ;-)
from Heather
However, lets say that I'm trying to shoot to fill one 5 gallon container. How many apples would I need to pick? That was my 2 bushels/100 lbs theory (Annie Proulx/Lew Nichols, I believe). You are saying I should get 70 lbs of juice, but what kind of volume is that? In the dairy industry, we just used a rough 8 lbs to the gallon. If I did the same with juice, would that be about 8.75 gallons, probably less?
Heather
> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 20:00:35 +0100
> From: y...@cider.org.uk
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Cider Workshop] Re: Pomace uses
>
David Llewellyn
Thank God for Litres and Kilos!!!
Sorry, I know that doesn’t help you Heather!
David L.
from Heather
From: pure...@eircom.net
Andrew Lea
> Wait! Okay... 1000 kg of apples = 700 kg of juice and 300 kg of pomace.
> How many mL is 700 kg?
For all practical purposes you can assume a density of 1 for milk or
cider or whatever. Hence 700 kg of juice or milk is 700 litres, give or
take.
The conversion from gallons to pounds is roughly 10 in the UK and
roughly 8 in the US. And before you ask, yes your gallon is smaller than
ours.
from Heather
They taught us metric in middle school or so, but didn't make us use it until high school science, and meanwhile the high school wood shop, metal shop, and drafting all insist on inches. Still, by time they make us use metric, we have no frame of reference, as in no ability to gauge how much something is in metric. We got really good at memorizing things, like 2.54 cm to the inch, 1 meter = 1 yard+, 1.6 km to the mile, etc. It's kind of like, "Why did you wait until high school to start teaching us a foreign language when I would have picked it up much easier when I was younger." Mind you, I went to a small rural school a decade ago, so opportunity might have been different in the cities.
Heather
> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 07:54:15 +0100
> From: y...@cider.org.uk
> To: cider-w...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Cider Workshop] Weight / volume conversions [was Pomace uses]
Andrew Lea
The metric system in itself doesn't assist with the question you
originally asked, which was about mass / volume conversions in US units.
Though it is a heckuva lot easier for conversions and all the mental
arithmetic if you can stick to metric throughout rather than trying to
move from bushels to pounds to gallons.
An old rhyme I once heard from a venerated Professor of Enology in
California - once a farm boy from rural Indiana - has it that "a pint's
a pound the world around". It isn't of course! True (nearly) in the US
but not in most of the rest of the English speaking world where the pint
is 20 ounces not 16. Nonetheless it would have helped you convert your
70 pounds of juice into 70 (US) pints.
Here in the UK (and English Canada) we have "a pint of pure water weighs
a pound and a quarter". I remember how confused I was in French Canada
to discover that une pinte is actually a quart, whereas in France une
pinte is colloquially 500 ml. And so on......
Andrew
olbol
lot of early and overly bruised windfalls into the compost heap, later
followed by the pressed pulp from two pressings. Three weeks after
acetic aroma is very noticeable - but we had a week of rain. My
compost heap is quite near to where the press is and I am wondering if
the acetobacter is going to fly (or whatever is their means of
transportation) and settle on the cidermaking table and press. That
said, last year's setup was identical and the amount of throwaway
stuff was pretty much the same - no trouble ensued. BTW - I give the
pulp to the chap on the other end of the village who keeps cows and he
says he actually pickles the pulp for them to chew over it in the
winter.
On 3 сен, 19:13, from Heather <for_heat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Just trying to work out all the details before my first pressing, so I'm going to bring this topic back up.
>
> I'm hoping to do 100 lbs for my first pressing. Small, I know, but I still got to do something with the pomace.
>
> I want to verify that it starts to smell if out in the garden. Does it? Does it help if it is burried? We had a bunch of stump griding done recently, and it is kind of like bark dust with dirt, so we were going to level it out, so I could bury the pomace with that. Does it get rid of weeds (sorry - I had to look up "Bob")? Cause I got weeds to kill and then use the stump grindings to fill!
>
> But if it does stink, then I need to be going the cattle/pig option. There are farmers avertizing they want wormy apples for feed. I'll do the double trash sack bag into a trash can, probably use a smaller trash can so that I can lift it!
>
> Heather
>
> >Don't disparage that 'crust' ... I found sommat else to do with it
>
> years ago ... spread a layer over any weeds / poison ivy, etc that you
> want to see the end of and "Bob's yer uncle".
>
> >jccampb
> > Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:31:43 -0700
> > Subject: [Cider Workshop] Re: Pomace uses