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Request for comments: Feed preview work
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Finnur Thorarinsson  
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 More options May 6, 8:36 pm
From: Finnur Thorarinsson <fin...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 17:36:27 -0700
Local: Wed, May 6 2009 8:36 pm
Subject: Request for comments: Feed preview work

I just wanted to give you heads up that soon it will be time for me to
devote most of my time on the second part of the Feed handling support in
Chrome, namely: Feed Previews (
http://dev.chromium.org/user-experience/feed-subscriptions).

Consider this a request for your feedback, especially if you know about the
status of the previous feed preview work or have opinions on the general
direction/approach we should take.

I have already added an API for PageActions and have a working RSS
PageAction extension, which does feed auto-detection on the page. Now it is
time to look into Feed previews.

I have spoken briefly to AdamB and EvanM about feed previews and both
suggested modelling this after the view-source implementation. It was also
suggested to add a scheme for this (like we do with view-source), such as
view-feed: or feed:

I know there has been some work on this front before, although the status of
that is not clear to me -- except that it was disabled at some point (or
removed from the codebase?). I would love to see what was done back then, if
anyone knows more. A cursory look through the code indicated that mime type
sniffing for feed is done. I've heard there is also some remaining work
required for sanitizing the feeds before showing, but besides the above
there is not much more I know at this point in time.

Comments welcome.


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Aaron Boodman  
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(1 user)  More options May 6, 8:55 pm
From: Aaron Boodman <a...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 17:55:49 -0700
Local: Wed, May 6 2009 8:55 pm
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Request for comments: Feed preview work
The way that makes most sense to me to implement this in the
extensions system is:

a) In C++ use content sniffing to make sure that the content type is
always correct for feeds
b) Add a feature to content scripts in extensions, so that they can
match by content type
c) Have a content script that matches the feed content type and uses
XSLT to reformat the page into the prettier UI

- a


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Evan Martin  
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 More options May 6, 9:13 pm
From: Evan Martin <e...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:13:50 -0700
Local: Wed, May 6 2009 9:13 pm
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Request for comments: Feed preview work

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Finnur Thorarinsson <fin...@chromium.org> wrote:
> I have already added an API for PageActions and have a working RSS
> PageAction extension, which does feed auto-detection on the page. Now it is
> time to look into Feed previews.
> I have spoken briefly to AdamB and EvanM about feed previews and both
> suggested modelling this after the view-source implementation. It was also
> suggested to add a scheme for this (like we do with view-source), such as
> view-feed: or feed:
> I know there has been some work on this front before, although the status of
> that is not clear to me -- except that it was disabled at some point (or
> removed from the codebase?). I would love to see what was done back then, if
> anyone knows more. A cursory look through the code indicated that mime type
> sniffing for feed is done. I've heard there is also some remaining work
> required for sanitizing the feeds before showing, but besides the above
> there is not much more I know at this point in time.

Feed previews only ever got to the state of "we know this page is a
feed, so right <here> is where we'd stick in the template".  Actually,
the old file has somehow evaded deletion:
webkit/glue/resources/feed.html .

Here are some things to consider:
- Parsing feeds is an absolute nightmare.  See e.g.
http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/02/04/incompatible-rss .  You
definitely want to at least do it in the renderer process.  Ideally
it'd be from JavaScript -- you might then be able to borrow the
parsing code from Mozilla(?) -- but I guess that may reject invalid
XML, which there is (or at least used to be) a ton of.  Maybe we don't
care and XSL is sufficient.  Definitely look at the Mozilla
implementation.

- You should be careful about HTML content.  Say site A publishes a
feed, and site B publishes a feed that mixes posts from A in among
others.  If A puts <script> tags in their feed, you don't want to run
those scripts on B's origin when you attempt to preview the feed on B.
 (Normally, this kind of untrusted input handling is B's problem, but
that's not how the feed world works.)  Ideally, you could work around
this by somehow not having an origin *at all* when displaying a feed
-- abarth would know more about this than I would.

- Some existing practice on the web is to use
"feed://hostname/etc.xml", which drops the protocol (and should be
interpreted as HTTP).  Ideally you should redirect these into
view-feed:http://hostname/etc.xml so our view-feed works with https,
ftp, etc. URLs.

- The feed-sniffing code we have is probably not very good and may
currently be disabled.  Eye it with suspicion.  This page (sorry for
the non-public URL) summarizes the behaviors of various browsers in
various circumstances:
  http://www/~evanm/projects/chrome/feeds/
  http://www/~evanm/projects/chrome/xml/

I'd suggest starting with getting view-feed: to do the right thing
when it's handed something correct, and then worry about fleshing out
all the sniffing/redirecting/etc. second.  I'd be happy to review any
changes you make in this area.


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Aaron Boodman  
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 More options May 6, 9:24 pm
From: Aaron Boodman <a...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:24:45 -0700
Local: Wed, May 6 2009 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work
Why bother with view-feed://? Why not just have the feed be styled
more nicely, similar to the way that XML is styled more nicely by
default in most browsers?

- a


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Ben Goodger (Google)  
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 More options May 6, 9:26 pm
From: "Ben Goodger (Google)" <b...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:26:37 -0700
Local: Wed, May 6 2009 9:26 pm
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Evan Martin <e...@chromium.org> wrote:
> - Some existing practice on the web is to use
> "feed://hostname/etc.xml", which drops the protocol (and should be
> interpreted as HTTP).  Ideally you should redirect these into
> view-feed:http://hostname/etc.xml so our view-feed works with https,
> ftp, etc. URLs.

Firefox retains the URL of the feed in the address bar (including
scheme), which is nice, though it falls back to an internal URL under
the hood to do the render of the preview.

-Ben


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Adam Barth  
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 More options May 6, 9:56 pm
From: Adam Barth <aba...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:56:10 -0700
Local: Wed, May 6 2009 9:56 pm
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work
I think Darin had some strong opinions about whether we should do
nested schemes like feed-view:http://foo.com/bar.

From a security point of view, we'd ideally like to render feeds with
JavaScript and plug-ins disabled, as well as in a noAccess
SecurityOrigin.  This is easier if the feed preview lives in its own
scheme.  I'm happy to help out with the security bits once you have
the basics up and running.

Adam

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Ben Goodger (Google) <b...@chromium.org> wrote:


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Darin Fisher  
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 More options May 6, 11:42 pm
From: Darin Fisher <da...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 20:42:37 -0700
Local: Wed, May 6 2009 11:42 pm
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work

WebKit does not support nested schemes.  It would fail in so many places to
recognize that the authority of such an URL is actually foo.com.
(However, we could perhaps support this as we do view-source, where WebKit
never actually sees the view-source URL.)

-Darin


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Mike Beltzner  
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 More options May 6, 11:45 pm
From: Mike Beltzner <beltz...@mozilla.com>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 23:45:34 -0400
Local: Wed, May 6 2009 11:45 pm
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work
On 6-May-09, at 9:56 PM, Adam Barth wrote:

> From a security point of view, we'd ideally like to render feeds with
> JavaScript and plug-ins disabled, as well as in a noAccess
> SecurityOrigin.  This is easier if the feed preview lives in its own
> scheme.  I'm happy to help out with the security bits once you have
> the basics up and running.

FWIW, Firefox has had several security issues crop up with the mixed-
content feed preview implementation. Placing privileged controls so  
close to web content should be avoided, IMO, if you want to keep this  
from being a problem for Chrome as well.

cheers,
mike


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Adam Barth  
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 More options May 7, 1:51 am
From: Adam Barth <aba...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 22:51:20 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 1:51 am
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work
I don't think we want these feed previews to run with foo.com's
authority.  I'd rather they ran with no one's authority.

Adam


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Adam Barth  
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 More options May 7, 1:55 am
From: Adam Barth <aba...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 22:55:39 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 1:55 am
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Mike Beltzner <beltz...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> FWIW, Firefox has had several security issues crop up with the mixed-content
> feed preview implementation. Placing privileged controls so close to web
> content should be avoided, IMO, if you want to keep this from being a
> problem for Chrome as well.

Thanks for weighing in Mike.

Maybe we should put the "subscribe now" button in browser chrome
instead of in the content area?  That makes a lot of sense from a
security point of view.  Perhaps the feed preview can teach the user
how to use the RSS icon in the location bar?

Adam


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Ben Goodger (Google)  
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 More options May 7, 2:22 am
From: "Ben Goodger (Google)" <b...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 23:22:34 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 2:22 am
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work
Regardless of whose authority they run at, it is somewhat desirable to
have the feed URL display in the address bar, since that's the content
that's being loaded.

I would like to keep the flow in page as much as possible. We should
be able to come up with some solution here that doesn't involve
elevation.

-Ben


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Aaron Boodman  
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 More options May 7, 2:55 am
From: Aaron Boodman <a...@chromium.org>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 23:55:09 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 2:55 am
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work
Let's say the feed is http://foo.com/feed.xml

What about a setup where the content rendered in the tab area is
running on chrome://, but contains a frame that hosts the actual feed
running on http://foo.com? The subscribe UI runs on the other page, so
it is the only thing that needs elevated privileges. Initially, the
two frames would run in the same process, but they'd still be
separated by same-origin. Someday, we could even separate them by
process as we have no need to ever communicate between these frames
via JS.

Adam, what is the concern with having the feed run in the context of
the hosting site? That they might XSS themselves?

- a

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Ben Goodger (Google) <b...@chromium.org> wrote:


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Adam Barth  
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 More options May 7, 3:03 am
From: Adam Barth <aba...@chromium.org>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 00:03:52 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 3:03 am
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Aaron Boodman <a...@chromium.org> wrote:
> What about a setup where the content rendered in the tab area is
> running on chrome://, but contains a frame that hosts the actual feed
> running on http://foo.com?

Sure, we could do that.  Or even better is if the outer page is a
chrome-extension.  Presumably we'll have a "subscribe to feed" API for
extensions?

> Adam, what is the concern with having the feed run in the context of
> the hosting site? That they might XSS themselves?

There are two concerns:

1) The site might XSS itself by aggregating content from third parties
into its RSS feed.  Last time I looked into this, there were lots of
examples of these, even on Google properties.

2) Our feed preview template might be screwed up and let the feed XSS
the template.  In a poor design, this might let the feed
auto-subscribe the user to itself.

Adam


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Itai  
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 More options May 7, 10:08 am
From: Itai <ida...@chromium.org>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 10:08 am
Subject: Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work
Minor comment, but I assume you will be triggering the feed-preview
when people click on a link to the feed as well.
Many sites have an RSS link to the feed's XML file because it is
previewable in many browsers without autodiscovery.
Currently, Chrome shows unformated XML. Doing CTRL-U after shows the
formatted XML source which is at least better
than its unformatted version.

- Itai

On May 6, 8:36 pm, Finnur Thorarinsson <fin...@chromium.org> wrote:


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Darin Fisher  
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 More options May 7, 10:56 am
From: Darin Fisher <da...@chromium.org>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 07:56:47 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 10:56 am
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work

I see.  That probably simplifies things.  Hmm...
-Darin


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Darin Fisher  
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 More options May 7, 10:57 am
From: Darin Fisher <da...@chromium.org>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 07:57:35 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work

chrome:// pages cannot load HTTP-based sub-resources.  We don't want to
taint the processes that render Chrome UI.
-Darin


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Aaron Boodman  
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 More options May 7, 11:30 am
From: Aaron Boodman <a...@chromium.org>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 08:30:57 -0700
Local: Thurs, May 7 2009 11:30 am
Subject: Re: [chromium-dev] Re: Request for comments: Feed preview work

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Adam Barth <aba...@chromium.org> wrote:
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Aaron Boodman <a...@chromium.org> wrote:
>> What about a setup where the content rendered in the tab area is
>> running on chrome://, but contains a frame that hosts the actual feed
>> running on http://foo.com?

> Sure, we could do that.  Or even better is if the outer page is a
> chrome-extension.  Presumably we'll have a "subscribe to feed" API for
> extensions?
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Darin Fisher <da...@chromium.org> wrote:
> chrome:// pages cannot load HTTP-based sub-resources.  We don't want to
> taint the processes that render Chrome UI.

Yeah, I actually meant chrome-extension:// for the outer page.

But I don't know what to do about wanting the inner frame to have no
authority. Hm.

- a


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