I've always wondered why the RSS feed icon was in the URL bar in Firefox.
How many of our users actually know what an RSS feed is, much less use it?
(I have a feeling that googlers are probably a biased sample). It's always
seemed like a pretty random thing that someone just decided to throw an icon
up for. I also grow concerned with too many things crowding the address bar
- it's really the only "trusted UI" we have anywhere. So, two questions:
1. Does it really make sense to show the "RSS" icon for all users, or is
there a way to only have it show up for people who actually use RSS feeds?
(Not sure how to define those users, maybe we recognize that they have a
reader installed / registered / whatever?)
2. Does it really have to be *in* the address bar?
RSS is kind of like bookmarking - it's bookmarking a page in your
reader, instead of in the browser. That's why this intersects with the
other design doc Nick posted about Bookmarklets that moved the Star.
We show an RSS icon in the location bar because it's page related.
I don't think there's yet consensus on what the default set of actions
available in this "page related notification/action" area are, but
given the feedback we've received from many users, this is one of the
more popular ones.
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Ian Fette <i...@chromium.org> wrote:
> I've always wondered why the RSS feed icon was in the URL bar in Firefox.
> How many of our users actually know what an RSS feed is, much less use it?
> (I have a feeling that googlers are probably a biased sample). It's always
> seemed like a pretty random thing that someone just decided to throw an icon
> up for. I also grow concerned with too many things crowding the address bar
> - it's really the only "trusted UI" we have anywhere. So, two questions:
> 1. Does it really make sense to show the "RSS" icon for all users, or is
> there a way to only have it show up for people who actually use RSS feeds?
> (Not sure how to define those users, maybe we recognize that they have a
> reader installed / registered / whatever?)
> 2. Does it really have to be *in* the address bar?
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Nick Baum <nickb...@chromium.org> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I've posted a pretty simple design document that covers a frequently
>> requested feature: subscribing to RSS/Atom feeds in Chrome:
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Ian Fette <i...@chromium.org> wrote: > 1. Does it really make sense to show the "RSS" icon for all users, or is > there a way to only have it show up for people who actually use RSS feeds? > (Not sure how to define those users, maybe we recognize that they have a > reader installed / registered / whatever?)
Borrowing from the Bookmarklets UI, perhaps it could show up in the chevron (+ the "highlight chevron" idea I posted there), as it's something like "an action you can take with the current page".
2. Does it really have to be *in* the address bar?
If you don't like my suggestion above, another possibility is that we create some sort of generalized "content area signaling location" where you can display messages and place actions applicable to the page content. ("This page has RSS feeds, microformats, bookmarklets, search engines, Javascript alerts, notifications".) But I have no idea what this would look like or where you'd put it. Besides "the right edge of the address bar", one could also imagine "in an expandable area to the right of the address bar", a shelf below the page a la the download shelf, or a sidebar (gah!).
Nice design document Nick! I have some remarks I would like to share, which I will explain later.
@Ian Fette
> I've always wondered why the RSS feed icon was in the URL bar in Firefox. > How many of our users actually know what an RSS feed is, much less use it? > (I have a feeling that googlers are probably a biased sample). It's always > seemed like a pretty random thing that someone just decided to throw an icon > up for. I also grow concerned with too many things crowding the address bar > - it's really the only "trusted UI" we have anywhere. So, two questions: > 1. Does it really make sense to show the "RSS" icon for all users, or is > there a way to only have it show up for people who actually use RSS feeds? > (Not sure how to define those users, maybe we recognize that they have a > reader installed / registered / whatever?)
> 2. Does it really have to be *in* the address bar?
I believe we should go forward in the web, and feeds are part of it, it is nice to tell the user about RSS feeds. It is a perfect place on the address bar since you quickly know if this website has an RSS feed since its page related. Same thing applies for SSL, etc.
@Ben Goodger
> RSS is kind of like bookmarking - it's bookmarking a page in your > reader, instead of in the browser. That's why this intersects with the > other design doc Nick posted about Bookmarklets that moved the Star. > We show an RSS icon in the location bar because it's page related
That is what I think as well, it is bookmarking, but with live feeds. I personally like the bookmark to be on the left, it is less crowded and fits perfectly with the design. When we moved the star into the omnibar, it feels awkward cause my first intentions were that everything that is included inside the omnibar is page related, a bookmark is not page related (in my definition) it is user related. I treat feeds as bookmarks, and as I said before, its just a live bookmark.
I have been constantly reading the Google Chrome user help forums, and many users are requesting RSS feeds. More than anything, I could even make a spreadsheet that describes that. Many users would like to view the XML, and to stay on Chromium theme look, why not make the Feed View feel the same way as the New Tab feel?
I mocked up something really quickly that demonstrates what would be kinda cool, http://i44.tinypic.com/4hcav6.png , a lot of things could change.
It's kind of like bookmarking, except so are a lot of other things (as Peter
mentions, microformats, availability of search engines, etc). Many of these
are things that a subset of people use. I acknowledge that they are vocal on
the support groups and that they are out there, but I don't think RSS users
come anywhere close to a "majority of users" (or for that matter bookmark
users). We have in the past been hesitant to add UI or even preferences for
these minority-use-cases. Do we have any data on how many people actually
click the RSS indicator in FF?
I actually like what Peter was getting at, in the sense that this is "an
action you can take with the current page". I think we should design for
that general case and then treat RSS as an instance of that case, rather
than treating RSS as something special that we get out the door now. Nick's
other proposal actually seems like a pretty reasonable start here.
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Ben Goodger (Google) <b...@chromium.org>wrote:
> RSS is kind of like bookmarking - it's bookmarking a page in your
> reader, instead of in the browser. That's why this intersects with the
> other design doc Nick posted about Bookmarklets that moved the Star.
> We show an RSS icon in the location bar because it's page related.
> I don't think there's yet consensus on what the default set of actions
> available in this "page related notification/action" area are, but
> given the feedback we've received from many users, this is one of the
> more popular ones.
> -Ben
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Ian Fette <i...@chromium.org> wrote:
> > I've always wondered why the RSS feed icon was in the URL bar in Firefox.
> > How many of our users actually know what an RSS feed is, much less use
> it?
> > (I have a feeling that googlers are probably a biased sample). It's
> always
> > seemed like a pretty random thing that someone just decided to throw an
> icon
> > up for. I also grow concerned with too many things crowding the address
> bar
> > - it's really the only "trusted UI" we have anywhere. So, two questions:
> > 1. Does it really make sense to show the "RSS" icon for all users, or is
> > there a way to only have it show up for people who actually use RSS
> feeds?
> > (Not sure how to define those users, maybe we recognize that they have a
> > reader installed / registered / whatever?)
> > 2. Does it really have to be *in* the address bar?
> > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Nick Baum <nickb...@chromium.org>
> wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >> I've posted a pretty simple design document that covers a frequently
> >> requested feature: subscribing to RSS/Atom feeds in Chrome:
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Ian Fette <i...@chromium.org> wrote: > I actually like what Peter was getting at, in the sense that this is "an > action you can take with the current page". I think we should design for > that general case and then treat RSS as an instance of that case, rather > than treating RSS as something special that we get out the door now. Nick's > other proposal actually seems like a pretty reasonable start here.
I think the basic idea of Nick's bookmarklets proposal works well for this, in the sense of having top-level items and a secondary menu, assuming we give users sufficient customization power. I am ambivalent on whether these need to be in the right side of the address bar. As long as I can delete or move (into the chevron menu) the "star" and "rss" icons, then perhaps they are sufficiently more commonly triggered to justify defaulting them to top-level positioning. Data would be nice!
If we think this is the long-term route, it's probably feasible to do more of a one-off solution for RSS in the short term and simply change the implementation over time to make the RSS button a "super bookmarklet".
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Ian Fette <i...@chromium.org> wrote:
>> I actually like what Peter was getting at, in the sense that this is "an
>> action you can take with the current page". I think we should design for
>> that general case and then treat RSS as an instance of that case, rather
>> than treating RSS as something special that we get out the door now. Nick's
>> other proposal actually seems like a pretty reasonable start here.
> I think the basic idea of Nick's bookmarklets proposal works well for this,
> in the sense of having top-level items and a secondary menu, assuming we
> give users sufficient customization power. I am ambivalent on whether these
> need to be in the right side of the address bar. As long as I can delete or
> move (into the chevron menu) the "star" and "rss" icons, then perhaps they
> are sufficiently more commonly triggered to justify defaulting them to
> top-level positioning. Data would be nice!
That's the basic idea. I could be convinced to move the RSS icon into the
menu by default, but as the former PM on Google Reader, I would tend to side
with Mohamed and promote it :)
> If we think this is the long-term route, it's probably feasible to do more
> of a one-off solution for RSS in the short term and simply change the
> implementation over time to make the RSS button a "super bookmarklet".
Agreed. Long term, the bookmarklets would be controllable by extensions. You
could write an extension with a content script to detect RSS feeds. This
script could then display the "subscribe" icon when applicable.
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