[ChristLife] Question

[Kenneth Regan]

I would like to pose a question to the group and ask all those with understanding to please respond.

Baptism. We all know that when we repent of our sins we are to be baptized in water.

Jesus was without sin.

So what was the significance of his baptism by John the baptist?




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[B A Berean]

On May 8, 4:28 pm, Kenneth Regan <kregan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would like to pose a question to the group and ask all those with understanding to please respond.
>
> Baptism. We all know that when we repent of our sins we are to be baptized in water.
>
> Jesus was without sin.
>
> So what was the significance of his baptism by John the baptist?

___________________________

Great question Kenneth! I love looking at "baptisms", because I
believe the Lord gave me some simple insights many years ago.

The answer is that Jesus' baptism by John was a DIFFERENT baptism than
what we as Christians are taught to observe.

Every time we see the word "baptism" mentioned in the Bible, we should
ask the following questions. There are many different "baptisms"
mentioned and we need to know which one we are talking about when we
are reading or discussing the particular "baptism". Lets look at
these questions in light of Jesus being baptized by John and Christian
water baptism.

1) Who is doing the baptizing?
John's baptism = John
Christian baptism = Another believer (often a pastor)

2) Who is being baptized?
John's baptism = Jesus (or other followers of John the Baptist)
Christian baptism = a Christian who has decided to obey Jesus' command
to be baptized

3) Into what is the person being baptized?
John's baptism = water
Christian baptism = water

4) What is the purpose of the baptism?
John's baptism = of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4
"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of
repentance for the remission of sins.")
Christian baptism = identification with the death, burial and
resurrection of Jesus (Romans 6:4-6 "Therefore we are buried with
him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the
dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life. (5) For if we have been planted together in the
likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his
resurrection: (6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with
him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we
should not serve sin.")
_____________________________

The word "baptism" causes so much confusion; however, it is easy to
see if two baptisms are talking about the same thing or not by asking
the above questions. As we can see, Jesus' baptism and ours as
Christians were DIFFERENT baptisms. This approach works very well
when looking at the other baptisms mentioned in the Bible also.
_____________________________

As for why Jesus was baptized by John in a baptism of repentance for
remissions of sin... it was to fulfill all righteousness. His death
on the Cross was God's "expiation" (atonement, payment of the penalty)
for our sins. His obedience in John's baptism and in everything else
was our "propitiation" (fulfillment of all of the Law and Prophets, He
was completely perfect in obedience) for our sins.

You see, Jesus PAID THE PENALTY (expiation) and He also was COMPLETELY
OBEDIENT (propitiation)!

Love in Christ Jesus,
Bob Dallmann - group moderator

[Mary]

Jesus baptism was his inauguration as King

[Kathy Lindsay]

I have already been baptized by the Holy Spirit when I joined my church three years ago.

---

From: Mary <mpr...@gmail.com>
To: chris...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 7:27:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ChristLife] Question

[maryf...@aol.com]

this fulfills the prophecy

[Kenneth Regan]

John's statement as Jesus left the river was "behold the Lamb of God who takes upon himself the sins of the world". Could this be the point when that actually happened?

The Bible tells us that the Spirit descended upon Him (Jesus) as a dove, and a voice was heard saying "this is my son with whom I am well pleased". Pleased with his obedience in taking upon himself our iniquities?

Most people assume that this happened on the cross when Jesus said "Father Father why have you forsaken me". Jesus was paying the price of our sins on the cross. But at what instance did these sins of ours actually come upon him?

I find Leviticus 16:21 a very interesting parallel. Yes this was a goat and Jesus called the lamb, but where did Jesus go after he died? He descended into the earth (hell) to preach to those there. And maybe to deposit our sins where they belong just as the goat in the 16th chapter of Leviticus?

Food for thought. Any insights out there?

--- On Sat, 5/8/10, Kenneth Regan <kreg...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[B A Berean]

Hi Kenneth,

Some interesting thoughts... I will comment below...
___________________________________
You said...

>  John's statement as Jesus left the river was "behold the Lamb of God who takes upon himself the sins of the world". Could this be the point when that actually happened?

My response...

I suppose it is possible; however, I personally believe that this is
not the point in time when that actually happened. Just as numerous
Old Testament prophecies told of the suffering Messiah and His coming,
to me it seems John is doing the same. Like the prophets of old, John
is prophecying of what Jesus would do (only he is doing so closer to
the actual event than they did.)

Also, I believe that, since God is not bound by time (as we are), that
Jesus' sacrifice for sin took place "before the foundations of the
world".

Revelation 13:8  "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb SLAIN from
the FOUNDATION of the world."
___________________________________
You said...

>   The Bible tells us that the Spirit descended upon Him (Jesus) as a dove, and a voice was heard saying "this is my son with whom I am well pleased". Pleased with his obedience in taking upon himself our iniquities?

My response...

I find that I must continue to believe that the sins of the world were
placed upon Jesus on the Cross. Peter (and others) confirms this...

1 Peter 2:24  "Who his own self BARE OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BODY ON THE
TREE, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by
whose stripes ye were healed."
___________________________________
You said...

>   Most people assume that this happened on the cross when Jesus said "Father Father why have you forsaken me". Jesus was paying the price of our sins on the cross. But at what instance did these sins of ours actually come upon him?

My response...

Count me among those who believe that our sins were laid upon Jesus on
the Cross.
___________________________________
You said...

> I find Leviticus 16:21 a very interesting parallel. Yes this was a goat and Jesus called the lamb, but where did Jesus go after he died? He descended into the earth (hell) to preach to those there. And maybe to deposit our sins where they belong just as the goat in the 16th chapter of Leviticus?

My response...

Personally, I do not believe that Jesus went into hell. The Bible
says that He descended into the "lower parts of the earth" (Ephesians
4:9). I cannot find any place in the Bible where it says that Jesus
went to hell.

On the other hand, Jesus DID tell us where He was going to be after
His death! He told the thief on the cross that "TODAY" they would be
together in Paradise.

Luke 23:43  "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day
shalt thou be with me in paradise."

I know traditionally, it has been taught that Jesus went to hell... I
just don't see that in the Bible.

Well, those are my initial thoughts...

Love in Christ Jesus,
Bob Dallmann - group moderator

[Kenneth Regan]

When the Bible was written there was no punctuation used, is that not right? So the comma was added afterwards then correct? As you see below where that comma (the second one) is placed would change the timing a bit would it not? And why did jesus tell Mary not to hold him for he had not yet been up to see the Father after the resserection? Is not paradise in Heaven with the Father?

Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day
shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day,

shalt thou be with me in paradise."

--- On Mon, 5/10/10, B A Berean <rob...@spreadsheetpower.com> wrote:

[B A Berean]

On May 10, 11:43 pm, Kenneth Regan <kregan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> When the Bible was written there was no punctuation used, is that not right? So the comma was added afterwards then correct? As you see below where that comma (the second one) is placed would change the timing a bit would it not?

_______________________________

Hello Kenneth,

While you are correct that punctuation is not in the original Greek, I
would still have to differ from your assessment.

I have reviewed numerous English translations of the Bible and EVERY
ONE that I have seen (except one) does not put the comma, where you
suggest it might belong!

The ONLY ONE I have found so far that translates it the way you
suggest is the Jehovah's Witness' "New World Translation".

For me, I will choose to adhere to the scholarship of all of these
other translations as opposed to that of the Jehovah's Witnesses!
(The Jehovah's Witness translation was created by four or five men.
Only one of them had two years of Greek and was self-taught in Hebrew
and the others had no biblical language training.)

How is it possible that the UNANIMOUS agreement of SO MANY scholars be
wrong?

Here are the versions that I have reviewed so far...
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (King James Version)

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be
with me in paradise.
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (New International Version)

Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me
in paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (New American Standard Bible)

And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in
(A)Paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (The Message)

He said, "Don't worry, I will. Today you will join me in paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (Amplified Bible)

And He answered him, Truly I tell you, today you shall be with Me in
Paradise.
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (New Living Translation)


And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in
paradise.”
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (English Standard Version)

And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in
(A) Paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (Contemporary English Version)

Jesus replied, "I promise that today you will be with me in
paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (New King James Version)

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be
with Me in Paradise.”
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (New Century Version)

Jesus said to him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in
paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (21st Century King James Version)

And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be
with Me in Paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (American Standard Version)

And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be
with me in Paradise.
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (Young's Literal Translation)

and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou
shalt be in the paradise.'
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (Darby Translation)

And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To-day shalt thou be with
me in paradise.
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

And He said to him, " I assure you: Today you will be with Me in
paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (New International Reader's Version)

Jesus answered him, "What I'm about to tell you is true. Today you
will be with me in paradise."
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (Wycliffe New Testament)

And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to thee, this day thou shalt be
with me in paradise.
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (Worldwide English (New Testament))

And Jesus said to him, `I tell you the truth. Today you will be with
me in God's garden of paradise.'
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (New International Version - UK)

Jesus answered him, I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in
paradise.
___________________________________
Luke 23:43 (Today's New International Version)

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in
paradise."

___________________________________

By the way, here is what the New World Translation of the Jehovah's
Witnesses says...

"And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in
Paradise.”

As you can see, this is the ONLY one that would follow your premise.

[Kenneth Regan]

Hey I'm not saying right or wrong either way, just some questions that had always came to mind.

--- On Tue, 5/11/10, B A Berean <rob...@spreadsheetpower.com> wrote:

> From: B A Berean <rob...@spreadsheetpower.com>
> Subject: [ChristLife] Re: Question
> To: "ChristLife" <chris...@googlegroups.com>

[B A Berean]

On May 11, 7:42 pm, Kenneth Regan <kregan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hey I'm not saying right or wrong either way, just some questions that had always came to mind.

_________________________________

Hi Kenneth,

Ooops, sorry. I must have mis-understood. I thought you were
advocating that particular position.

God bless you.

[junior clergy]

The baptism of Jesus doesn't necessarily means that He was a sinner, but what i know and believe is that Jesus who was God incarnated had to take or adapt the patterns of the world so as to tell people that He is now a man ready to do everything that the world is instruct Him to do in other to win them to his kingdom.Now instance, if a president tries to monopolise his power and authority or practise autocracy the people around him or the whole populace might revolt against him.so Jesus who wanted to save the world had to oblige to the regulation even John the Baptist admited that he wasn't worthy to baptise such a glorious person.