dampness

[dye]

I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.

How did other chi.splat members fare?

--Ken

--
Ken R. Dye an optimist is a guy |
Chicago, Illinois that has never had |
http://dye.datsun510.com/index1.html much experience |
dye1146 at g mail dot com archy |

[Cydrome Leader]

dye <d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net> wrote:
> I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.
>
> How did other chi.splat members fare?

back of my pants got wet when I walked home last night.

they got a little damp today as well.

[max]

In article <kkp90d$4tn$1...@dont-email.me>,

d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net (dye) wrote:

> I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.
>
> How did other chi.splat members fare?
>
> --Ken

I did a shit ton of manual labor a couple+ years ago. putting in a2x2x50
french drain across my uphill property line. Results have been super
awesomefantastic. No water gets in the house evar.

Barb, otoh, faired less well, with a couple of inches in her basement.
Fortunately, her thoughtful and considerate boyfriend had the foresight
to outfit her with a big shopvac a few years ago, for days like today,
when he could hump it in and out of the basement. She's gonna need a
longer hose...

[Mark Anderson]

In article beta...@gmail.com says...

> > I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.
> >
> > How did other chi.splat members fare?
> >
> > --Ken
>
> I did a shit ton of manual labor a couple+ years ago. putting in a2x2x50
> french drain across my uphill property line. Results have been super
> awesomefantastic. No water gets in the house evar.
>
> Barb, otoh, faired less well, with a couple of inches in her basement.
> Fortunately, her thoughtful and considerate boyfriend had the foresight
> to outfit her with a big shopvac a few years ago, for days like today,
> when he could hump it in and out of the basement. She's gonna need a
> longer hose...

Mark has been lazy and his new sump pump still sits in its box. A
couple inches came in and not sure if it even took out the hot water
heaters yet. As floods go this one was meek. This is what a good flood
can do:

http://brandylion.com/images/IMG_1030.jpeg

(July 2011)

[core]

Ground saturation has it coming up through a floor crack in an area not
covered by the sump pump. At least I can empty the shop vac into the sump
well.

[Cydrome Leader]

sounds like she needs a sump pump, not a vacuum cleaner.

[Ts of Og]

On Apr 18, 12:23 pm, Kristian M Zoerhoff <k...@lavabit.com> wrote:

>
> My usual suspect (basement window well) held this time (yay!). Sump is
> running like mad, but we got off pretty easy over by here.

The sump is cycling at 10 min. intervals now, up from 4 minutes. The
backyard had a large pond this morning where it never does, but
disappeared by afternoon.
The subdivision pond overflowed into the adjacent street. However the
"free market" developed blocks in town with hodge-podge drainage were
featured on TV news !
Once again, always buy on the higher ground....

[Adam H. Kerman]

dye <dy...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net> wrote:

>I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.

>How did other chi.splat members fare?

Bruce lives in flood central. I should have checked on him.

My basement was dry.

[Bruce Esquibel]

Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> Bruce lives in flood central. I should have checked on him.

Yeah we got whacked.

Not too bad, couple inches but enough to qualify for "pain in the ass"
rating. We learned a while back to keep stuff elevated so nothing of
importance was damaged.

We almost made it though. The storm around here came in 3 major waves with a
slight lull between them. There was just too much water with nowhere to go.
When the 3rd round started, the backyard was completely submerged, couldn't
see the grass at all, was like a lake. Then the patio, then the sidewalk,
then down the basement stairs like niagra falls.

I had 3 expired bags of cement that came in handy as sandbags which did slow
it down, but after a while it just came spraying out of any cracks, floor
and walls of the stairs.

We do have a pump downstairs, mostly to deal with up-through-the-floor
spouts which pretty much disappeared when we had the main line replaced but
was just too much for what was coming in under the door.

http://boresight.ripco.com/blang/motion-2013-04-18-06-51-48.jpg

The basement stairs are under/behind the stairs that go up. As you can see
from the ladder, there was quite a bit around there. The entire yard had
about the same amount of water you see, from one end to another.

As they say, could of been worse.

-bruce
b...@ripco.com

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

dye <d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net> wrote:
>I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.

>How did other chi.splat members fare?

>--Ken

We have overhead sewers so we are dry (which is good because we have lots of
computers in the basement)

Life in the city is good...

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:

>yes, well that, too.

>However, at the moment, the Shop-Vac handled the water that I assume came
>up through the floor storm drain, since it wasn't going DOWN the floor
>drain.

>This begs a few querstions:
>1) I obviously need a sewer guy to look in the 2 floor drains and the
>disconnected downspout drain. But, if he finds, say, cracked tiles or
>something, how do we know then figure out if it's gallons of groundwater
>under the house getting in, or if it's actually coming from a storm sewer?
>(I assume we fix the tiles or reline the pipes or whatever, at an
>outrageously high dollar amount, first?)

>2) What if the backup is coming from the city storm drain that's right in
>front of my house? I have a rectangle grate, and a city sewer manhole
>cover right in front of my house. Will they actually do anything? Or am I
>out of luck if it's their sewer that's coming back up in my basement?

>3) I get only a little bit of perimeter seepage, and only get a measurable
>quantity of water when we have these torrentials. Sump pump is probably a
>good idea, but first I have to get the storm drain fixed. I assume it's
>against code to have a sump pump draining into the sewage drain? Or is
>that only in some municipalities?

>I've got a fan running and the de-humidifier running in the basement, but
>if we have another downpour overnight, I may be vacuuming the water out
>again...

Do you have stand pipes? If you have floor drains attached to the city sewer,
installing stand pipes with plumbing tape to make a tight seal may eliminate
flooding as the water will seek the lowest point (i.e. someone elses basement
without overhead sewers or stand pipes).

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

Based on old maps we used to have a stream in our yard (and the banks were
still visable next door until the rehabbers redid that house) so the previous
owner of our house, probably tired of flooding, raised our entire backyard the
height of a railroad tie so its just a few inches higher than either side now.

The neighbors didn't raise their yards but instead covered the yards with rocks
and put in raised decks as their solution to the flooding (in some ways I like
the idea of not having to mow and have been pondering permeable pavers).

The grass got a bit spongy, but not like you got in that image.

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

Does that happen every day?

[Cydrome Leader]

Chicago Paddling-Fishing <j...@ripco.com> wrote:
> Cydrome Leader <pres...@mungepanix.com> wrote:
>>dye <d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.
>>>
>>> How did other chi.splat members fare?
>
>>back of my pants got wet when I walked home last night.
>
>>they got a little damp today as well.
>
> Does that happen every day?

yes, everyday it rains and cuffs of my pants get wet.

[spamtrap1888]

On Apr 19, 5:59 am, Chicago Paddling-Fishing <j...@ripco.com> wrote:
> barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
> >On Thu, 18 Apr 2013, Cydrome Leader wrote:

> >> max <betat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> In article <kkp90d$4t...@dont-email.me>,

I thought standpipes were prohibited.

[sticks]

On 4/18/2013 10:08 PM, barbie gee wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2013, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>

> yes, well that, too.
>
> However, at the moment, the Shop-Vac handled the water that I assume
> came up through the floor storm drain, since it wasn't going DOWN the
> floor drain.
>
> This begs a few querstions:
> 1) I obviously need a sewer guy to look in the 2 floor drains and the
> disconnected downspout drain. But, if he finds, say, cracked tiles or
> something, how do we know then figure out if it's gallons of groundwater
> under the house getting in, or if it's actually coming from a storm sewer?
> (I assume we fix the tiles or reline the pipes or whatever, at an
> outrageously high dollar amount, first?)
>
> 2) What if the backup is coming from the city storm drain that's right
> in front of my house? I have a rectangle grate, and a city sewer
> manhole cover right in front of my house. Will they actually do
> anything? Or am I out of luck if it's their sewer that's coming back up
> in my basement?

Because of the combined sewer system in most of the city and the
tremendous volume it gets during long hour events, the only real way to
keep from having this water coming in from your floor drains is to
create an elevated system. A plumber would get all your service lines
above the outside street level. The connection for the lower stuff,
like basement floor drains would most likely need a lift pump to get it
into the elevated system, or could possibly eliminated entirely. Either
way, you would also need at least one sump hole and pump installed.
These would not be tied into the sewer system. For people like Bruce,
this means you're fucked. The city has to improve the drainage system
before you'll see any relief. They have been doing this area by area as
they can, and making it separate from the sanitary system.

The sump should only be removing water coming from outside your house.
The problem here is depending on how old your house is, most likely you
don't have a proper drainage system around and under your house. New
construction would have a layer of gravel under the floors with
perforated pipe to transport the water to the sump holes. There would
also be waterproofing on your basement walls and a layer of gravel one
foot wide all the way to the bottom of your basement, again with a
perforated drain pipe to carry the water to your sump pumps.

So though putting in a sump and pump in old construction can help if
you're getting flooded, it won't necessarily keep you dry because you
don't have the proper rock and transport system connected to it. This
can be done on the outside, though not cheaply by digging down alongside
the house and getting somewhat modern drainage going there. Inside is
more work, but you can at least get a ring around all the walls with a
type of "canal" that then get new concrete cover. Many people
successfully do this, but it's a lot of work.

> 3) I get only a little bit of perimeter seepage, and only get a
> measurable quantity of water when we have these torrentials. Sump pump
> is probably a good idea, but first I have to get the storm drain fixed.
> I assume it's against code to have a sump pump draining into the sewage
> drain? Or is that only in some municipalities?
>
> I've got a fan running and the de-humidifier running in the basement,
> but if we have another downpour overnight, I may be vacuuming the water
> out again...
>

If you don't plan on ever finishing your basement, don't live in flood
plain like Bruce, a good sump pump is the right place to start.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Kristian M Zoerhoff <k...@lavabit.com> wrote:

>On 2013-04-18, dye <d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net> wrote:

>>I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.

>>How did other chi.splat members fare?

>One tiny spot of seepage in an unfinished area of the basement, where the
>water main enters (easily fixed with an epoxy injection), and one window
>leak in my home office (looks like wind-driven rain got under the drip cap,
>as it was dripping from right at the top of the window frame); fixable with
>some caulk once things dry out.

>My usual suspect (basement window well) held this time (yay!). Sump is
>running like mad, but we got off pretty easy over by here.

Say there's seepage in one particular area and its found its way through
a crack. What's the repair on the outside, build up some clay soil a bit
higher around the foundation at that location?

[Mark Anderson]

In article boo...@nosespam.com says...
> I've got to ask, are you in the middle of the block? Low(est) lot on the
> block?
> I think my problems would be lessened if I could build like a 1 foot curb
> around my back yard, so the neighbors' water on either side couldn't
> start pouring over into my yard.

This is how it all begins.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Kristian M Zoerhoff <k...@lavabit.com> wrote:

>Inject epoxy to seal the crack, then fill with soil. Dirt itself won't help,
>as it will saturate eventually and the water will still get through. You're
>just staving off the inevitable with a re-grade, though it might still be a
>good idea.

So not a permanent solution; hm.

[Cydrome Leader]

kenji <k...@everyblock.com> wrote:
> In article <kkp90d$4tn$1...@dont-email.me>,

> d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net (dye) wrote:
>
>> I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.
>>
>> How did other chi.splat members fare?
>>

>> --Ken
>
> here's my FIL's basement in Jefferson Park:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/iSQOeuG.jpg

at least the giant gas can is still good.

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

spamtrap1888 <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 19, 5:59?am, Chicago Paddling-Fishing <j...@ripco.com> wrote:
>> barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>> >On Thu, 18 Apr 2013, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> >> max <betat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> In article <kkp90d$4t...@dont-email.me>,
>> >>> d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net (dye) wrote:
>>
>> >>>> I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.
>>
>> >>>> How did other chi.splat members fare?
>>
>> >>>> --Ken
>>
>> >>> I did a shit ton of manual labor a couple+ years ago. putting in a2x2x50

>> >>> french drain across my uphill property line. ?Results have been super
>> >>> awesomefantastic. ?No water gets in the house evar.

>>
>> >>> Barb, otoh, faired less well, with a couple of inches in her basement.
>> >>> Fortunately, her thoughtful and considerate boyfriend had the foresight
>> >>> to outfit her with a big shopvac a few years ago, for days like today,
>> >>> when he could hump it in and out of the basement. She's gonna need a
>> >>> longer hose...
>>
>> >> sounds like she needs a sump pump, not a vacuum cleaner.
>> >yes, well that, too.
>> >However, at the moment, the Shop-Vac handled the water that I assume came
>> >up through the floor storm drain, since it wasn't going DOWN the floor
>> >drain.
>> >This begs a few querstions:
>> >1) I obviously need a sewer guy to look in the 2 floor drains and the

>> >disconnected downspout drain. ?But, if he finds, say, cracked tiles or

>> >something, how do we know then figure out if it's gallons of groundwater
>> >under the house getting in, or if it's actually coming from a storm sewer?
>> >(I assume we fix the tiles or reline the pipes or whatever, at an
>> >outrageously high dollar amount, first?)
>> >2) What if the backup is coming from the city storm drain that's right in

>> >front of my house? ?I have a rectangle grate, and a city sewer manhole
>> >cover right in front of my house. ?Will they actually do anything? Or am I

>> >out of luck if it's their sewer that's coming back up in my basement?
>> >3) I get only a little bit of perimeter seepage, and only get a measurable

>> >quantity of water when we have these torrentials. ?Sump pump is probably a
>> >good idea, but first I have to get the storm drain fixed. ?I assume it's
>> >against code to have a sump pump draining into the sewage drain? ?Or is

>> >that only in some municipalities?
>> >I've got a fan running and the de-humidifier running in the basement, but
>> >if we have another downpour overnight, I may be vacuuming the water out
>> >again...
>>
>> Do you have stand pipes? If you have floor drains attached to the city sewer,
>> installing stand pipes with plumbing tape to make a tight seal may eliminate
>> flooding as the water will seek the lowest point (i.e. someone elses basement
>> without overhead sewers or stand pipes).
>>

>I thought standpipes were prohibited.

I don't know if they are or not. We have overhead sewers in this house and
we were fine. In looking around the neighborhood today, I don't see the telltale
signs of flooding (massive mounds of garbage) like we had when we lived in our
old house so I'm guessing our neighborhood didn't get flooded.

http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Sewer_Backup_Prevention.htm#reviewers is one
point of reference. Apparently there are inflatable plugs you can pop in your
line if you want to go that route and not have the drain at all. (I figure
the standpipe still allows the water to come up, depending on the pressure,
and height of the pipe, I'm not sure a drain plug would be the way to go as
that pressure has to go someplace and might burst a pipe under your
foundation...)

[Bruce Esquibel]

barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:

> Well, given that I live on a standard 25' wide city lot, with a ~3'
> gangway on one side and about a foot between me and the 6 flat on the
> other side, no one will be digging anything on the outside perimeter.
> The only way we'd get draining UNDER the house is if I spent like a
> gazillion bucks and had the basement dug out another 2-3 feet, with all
> that that entails, and a new floor poured. I'm thinking that's somewhere
> in the $20-30k range??

hahahahhahahah, you make a funny.

Around the turn of the century (1999/2000) a husband and wife doctor team
bought a place about 5 or 6 doors down, thinking this was some up and coming
area to live in.

They had their basement dug out, lowered and remodeled.

The lowering part alone ran $120K, the remodel another $80K, but they pretty
much ended up with a new floor, like an apartment. Really nice actually.

Took like 4 months. Keep in mind, besides breaking concrete, you have to
keep everything supported, both vertically and horizonally so the building
doesn't collaspe on itself. That takes some major engineering.

Luckily they sold out during the housing boom, think they got $420K so more
or less broke even (they purchased for $180K if memory serves).

$20K these days will barely get you a new catchbasin and main line
replacement from foundation wall to the street.

As far as my place, yeah we're in the middle of the block but I don't think
we have a flooding problem, it floods, no denying that, but it's not like we
get a couple inches down there every time it drizzles.

The last time there was water coming in under the door was probably 2007 or
so, some kind of microburst centered around montrose and cicero, got
something like 3 inches in half an hour. The ground just can't absorb it at
that rate and with basement steps, I really don't see an effective way of
stopping it.

Or I guess I should say a cost efficient solution that is effective.

-bruce
b...@ripco.com

[sticks]

On 4/20/2013 12:15 AM, barbie gee wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2013, Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:

>
>> On 2013-04-19, barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) I get only a little bit of perimeter seepage, and only get a
>>> measurable

>>> quantity of water when we have these torrentials. Sump pump is
>>> probably a
>>> good idea, but first I have to get the storm drain fixed. I assume it's
>>> against code to have a sump pump draining into the sewage drain? Or is

>>> that only in some municipalities?
>>

>> NEVER connect a sump to the sanitary sewer, unless you relish the
>> thought of
>> have shit back up through the now overburdened sewer into your house (and
>> your neighbors). It's definitely against code, and a Really Bad Idea.
>
> Yeah, IKFAATS, but that's what I figured.
>
>> Get the storm drain fixed first (assuming you can; if the city's storm
>> drain
>> is the cause, you're pretty well screwed).
>
> I was browsing Angie's list tonight. I want someone who will figure out
> how the 3 drains connect, who will clean them all out, then videocam
> them, and finally help me figure out my options. When they backup, they
> then only go down really really really slowly, even if there's no water
> at the curb on the street. I'm not quite clear on how the plumbing is
> kept separate from the house to the street, unless it's just all 2
> separate systems??
>


No, it is one pipe going to the street. Just because you see no water
at the curb doesn't mean the system isn't full. The backup is occurring
much lower in the main. If it is slow days after an event, yes, you
might have pipe or root problems.

You should be able to find the pipe that goes into the basement from the
upstairs. All the different areas, kitchen, baths, laundry, will work
their way toward the "main" in your house. The floor drains all tie
into this same main before leaving your house. The main can either be
at the wall going directly to the street, or it can come out the side.
Usually, they were on the street side as it is easiest to connect to the
city. Once you find your main, it all starts making sense.

Your floor drains might have a build up of crud in them, but usually
won't have a lot of roots, because they are only under your house. What
a plumber will look for is the "tee". This is usually right against the
wall somewhere, and is the last place you can access the pipe before it
leaves your house. This is where he would clean, rod, and video the
line going to the street. This is where you will get root buildup.
This is where most pipe breaks happen. These types of issues cause
problems with getting the water out of your house into the city's
system. They are not the cause of water coming back in during storm events.

When these events happen, you will get the backup in your sewer system
almost predictably, until somewhere down the line from you the system
gets a greater capacity. So what do you do? You cannot plug the floor
drains, as this has a very good probability of breaking a pipe. It is
hard to explain the amount of pressure created when sewer systems back
up, but I think I've told the story of when I watched a utility pole get
launched out of the ground that had partially blocked a service to a
house.

If it were my house would I try a standpipe? Probably not, and for the
same reasons. Yes, you will raise the level and possibly keep yourself
dry. However, the pressure on the pipe system coming into and under
your house increases exponentially for every inch you raise the water
escape level. It could burst right at the worst possible spot on your
foundation. Is it worth the risk. Perhaps.

I would elevate the system, and probably line the pipe to the street at
the same time. It would be expensive, but to me worth it. Get an
estimate, you might be surprised. If you could only use PVC, but that's
another story.

Most likely, everything upstairs comes to one location before going
downstairs. This is the pipe going into the basement that goes out to
the street. This is the area you will have to place an ejector pit to
send up anything you have down there like floor drains, laundry, or bath
sewage. Usually everything under the basement floor also comes to this
final area, minimizing how much floor you have to break up. This gets
pumped up to the new pipe going out your walls with everything connected
at the higher elevation. This is where the plumber digs his hole
outside the house to make the new connection and abandon the lower pipe.

Get a couple estimates to find out exactly what you have and compare.
You should be able to get some companies to do free estimates. If they
don't, I wouldn't use them.

All of this has nothing to do with water coming in from other sources
that would be handled by a sump pump like leaky walls, or cracks in your
floors. That is an entirely different situation. This is only for sewage.

[sticks]

On 4/20/2013 12:27 AM, barbie gee wrote:

>
> I'm thinking the "overhead" system stuff would cost an arm and a leg. A
> sump hole, and a pseudo "french drain" gutter, around the perimeter of
> the basement (inside) would work just fine for me.

I'd say 10-15K. Probably closer to 10K.
The sump will take water out, but won't keep it from coming in the
sanitary lines. For some people, they couldn't get a big enough pump to
handle the amount that would blood their basement. Plus...it's shit man.

BTW, I believe the city has different programs for helping people with
this financially, and some property tax rebates IIRC. Worth checking out.

[spamtrap1888]

On Apr 19, 1:28 pm, kenji <k...@everyblock.com> wrote:
> In article <kkp90d$4t...@dont-email.me>,
>
>  d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net (dye) wrote:
> > I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.
>
> > How did other chi.splat members fare?
>
> > --Ken
>

> here's my FIL's basement in Jefferson Park:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/iSQOeuG.jpg

Mein Gott!

If I were you I'd buy him a 12 V portable pump to get rid of that.

Hey, is he getting any elderpussy? He's too old to have to pluck his
twanger exclusively.

[smr]

Well. That's the worst sentence I've ever read on chi.*. Good job, you
disgusting creepy bastard.

--
smr

[dj]

On Apr 20, 1:45 pm, Anonymous <nore...@breaka.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 01:12:22 +0000, Seamus aka "Adam H. Kerman" inkkq5lm$6j...@news.albasani.net wrote:
> > Seamus Tracking #:419.13
>
> JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP KERMIE! NOBODY GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOUR BULLSHIT
> KERMIE SEAMUS! JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP!
>
> JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP KERMIE!

[sticks]

On 4/21/2013 9:54 AM, barbie gee wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, sticks wrote:
>
>> On 4/20/2013 12:15 AM, barbie gee wrote:
>>> I was browsing Angie's list tonight. I want someone who will figure out
>>> how the 3 drains connect, who will clean them all out, then videocam
>>> them, and finally help me figure out my options. When they backup, they
>>> then only go down really really really slowly, even if there's no water
>>> at the curb on the street. I'm not quite clear on how the plumbing is
>>> kept separate from the house to the street, unless it's just all 2
>>> separate systems??
>>>
>>
>>
>> No, it is one pipe going to the street. Just because you see no water
>> at the curb doesn't mean the system isn't full. The backup is
>> occurring much lower in the main. If it is slow days after an event,
>> yes, you might have pipe or root problems.
>

> It was only slow the morning after.

That would suggest the trunk line in the street was still trying to keep
up. I would think this is normal.

>> You should be able to find the pipe that goes into the basement from
>> the upstairs. All the different areas, kitchen, baths, laundry, will
>> work their way toward the "main" in your house. The floor drains all
>> tie into this same main before leaving your house. The main can
>> either be at the wall going directly to the street, or it can come out
>> the side. Usually, they were on the street side as it is easiest to
>> connect to the city. Once you find your main, it all starts making
>> sense.
>

> I have a wonderful mess under the house, I am sure. It appears that the
> plumbing is a wonderful hybrid of Polish and Mexican un-licensed ingenuity!

It shouldn't matter, as long as it is all flowing. It all has to end at
the same spot before leaving.

>> Your floor drains might have a build up of crud in them, but usually
>> won't have a lot of roots, because they are only under your house.
>> What a plumber will look for is the "tee". This is usually right
>> against the wall somewhere, and is the last place you can access the
>> pipe before it leaves your house. This is where he would clean, rod,
>> and video the line going to the street. This is where you will get
>> root buildup. This is where most pipe breaks happen. These types of
>> issues cause problems with getting the water out of your house into
>> the city's system. They are not the cause of water coming back in
>> during storm events.
>>
>> When these events happen, you will get the backup in your sewer system
>> almost predictably, until somewhere down the line from you the system
>> gets a greater capacity. So what do you do? You cannot plug the
>> floor drains, as this has a very good probability of breaking a pipe.
>> It is hard to explain the amount of pressure created when sewer
>> systems back up, but I think I've told the story of when I watched a
>> utility pole get launched out of the ground that had partially blocked
>> a service to a house.
>

> whoa.

I'm talking like 30'. ComEd had disconnected it after I had determined
it had to be the culprit. They were pulling it out of the ground. Once
it broke the head suction, it got ejected 30' toward the house, ripped
all the siding off the front of the building, and bounced back onto the
live lines. Had the power lines bouncing as far as we could see.

>> If it were my house would I try a standpipe? Probably not, and for
>> the same reasons. Yes, you will raise the level and possibly keep
>> yourself dry. However, the pressure on the pipe system coming into and
>> under your house increases exponentially for every inch you raise the
>> water escape level. It could burst right at the worst possible spot
>> on your foundation. Is it worth the risk. Perhaps.
>

> probably not. Even though I had work done, and the house isn't too bad,
> it is small, but if I sell, I would suspect it would be a teardown,
> anyway. But yeah, while I'm living here, water in the basement, even if
> only every year or two, is a PITA.

It is sewage, though mostly storm runoff. Just not healthy stuff.

>> I would elevate the system, and probably line the pipe to the street
>> at the same time. It would be expensive, but to me worth it. Get an
>> estimate, you might be surprised. If you could only use PVC, but
>> that's another story.
>>
>> Most likely, everything upstairs comes to one location before going
>> downstairs. This is the pipe going into the basement that goes out to
>> the street. This is the area you will have to place an ejector pit to
>> send up anything you have down there like floor drains, laundry, or
>> bath sewage. Usually everything under the basement floor also comes to
>> this final area, minimizing how much floor you have to break up. This
>> gets pumped up to the new pipe going out your walls with everything
>> connected at the higher elevation. This is where the plumber digs his
>> hole outside the house to make the new connection and abandon the
>> lower pipe.
>

> Yeah, I know where the main is, and then I have 2 floor drains (one
> looks like they (someone 50 years ago) had a shower or maybe a sunken
> area for a washing machine) and an abandoned downspout that used to be
> outside but is now inside...

>
>> Get a couple estimates to find out exactly what you have and compare.
>> You should be able to get some companies to do free estimates. If
>> they don't, I wouldn't use them.
>>
>> All of this has nothing to do with water coming in from other sources
>> that would be handled by a sump pump like leaky walls, or cracks in
>> your floors. That is an entirely different situation. This is only
>> for sewage.
>

> I have seepage for sure, but it's never been enough to actually create
> more than an occasional wet corner.
>
> Thanks for all the detail and the good advice. It also makes me wonder
> where we have flow restrictors in the storm sewers on the streets on my
> block...

If you're talking about a backflow preventer, these are on the
homeowners side of the equation. They're also junk IMO. They don't
work like water main backflow preventer in that they keep it all out.
They get plugged up and you end up with the same amount of liquid, just
no solids.

BTW, I watched a show last night that has some gal who does real estate
stuff. Rehab addict I think it is called. She bought a house with a
bad foundation, raised the entire thing and put temporary steel beams
under it to hold it up, and proceeded to install new footings and block
wall! $30K, and this was somewhere in highly union, regulated area like
Boston or somewhere on the east coast. Very impressive.

[sticks]

On 4/21/2013 12:15 PM, barbie gee wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Apr 2013, sticks wrote:
>> BTW, I watched a show last night that has some gal who does real
>> estate stuff. Rehab addict I think it is called. She bought a house
>> with a bad foundation, raised the entire thing and put temporary steel
>> beams under it to hold it up, and proceeded to install new footings
>> and block wall! $30K, and this was somewhere in highly union,
>> regulated area like Boston or somewhere on the east coast. Very
>> impressive.
>

> WAY cool.
> I take it the house was empty?


I was wrong about the location, I guess she is up in Minneapolis.
Here's a little clip on the house. She bought it for a buck I guess.

<http://www.diynetwork.com/rehab-addict/faulty-foundation/index.html>

[core]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:15:33 -0500, barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:

>No, I'm talking about these:
><http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/bldgs/supp_info/blocking_rainwaterandpreventingsewerbackup.html>
>"intake restrictor valves", aka "rainblockers"
>They slow down how much goes down the sewers on the streets.

>
>> BTW, I watched a show last night that has some gal who does real estate
>> stuff. Rehab addict I think it is called. She bought a house with a bad
>> foundation, raised the entire thing and put temporary steel beams under it to
>> hold it up, and proceeded to install new footings and block wall! $30K, and
>> this was somewhere in highly union, regulated area like Boston or somewhere
>> on the east coast. Very impressive.
>

>WAY cool.
>I take it the house was empty?

Just remember... Real rehab isn't anything like they show it on TV...Tney
leave out all the bad stuff and delays and re-work.

[sticks]

On 4/21/2013 5:02 PM, barbie gee wrote:

> Here's my drain "cluster", just FYI:
> http://www.ftupet.com/upload/IMG_20130421_152509.jpg

which reminds me, I guess since 2010 you can use pvc for drain above
ground. There are restrictions on multi family, three story, etc. But
for your place, pvc should be OK. That would make things a whole lot
cheaper.

[tert in seattle]

barbie gee wrote:

> And yeah, my basement is dirty, dark, and dank. I'm working on it...

what's the rpoblem? that's how basements are supposed to be

[tert in seattle]

barbie gee wrote:

> It's the dirty and dark I really am finally fed up with.
> I'd like to clean it up and get it better organized, and then get the
> floor and perimeter walls sealed and then painted.
>
> Maybe I might even make a stairway inside the house into the basement
> without having to go outside. A trapdoor setup would be a hoot, I think.

here's something to aim for

http://wandel.ca/homepage/basement.jpg

[tert in seattle]

hey isn't that bruce?

http://www.tsbmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/5guys2.jpg

[spamtrap1888]

http://thenakedpheasant.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/fat-man-at-computer.jpg

[spamtrap1888]

On Apr 21, 8:19 pm, Kristian M Zoerhoff <k...@lavabit.com> wrote:
> On 2013-04-22, barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:

> > It's the dirty and dark I really am finally fed up with.
> > I'd like to clean it up and get it better organized, and then get the
> > floor and perimeter walls sealed and then painted.
>
> > Maybe I might even make a stairway inside the house into the basement
> > without having to go outside.  A trapdoor setup would be a hoot, I think.
>

> Friend in WI has a trapdoor from the garage to the basement. It's...odd.
> The original owner had 6 or 7 kids, though, so the two levels are
> essentially separate houses.
>

I hate homemade remodels. No permits, no skills.

[spamtrap1888]

On Apr 21, 8:59 am, sticks <wolverin...@charter.net> wrote:

> BTW, I watched a show last night that has some gal who does real estate
> stuff.  Rehab addict I think it is called.  She bought a house with a
> bad foundation, raised the entire thing and put temporary steel beams
> under it to hold it up, and proceeded to install new footings and block
> wall!  $30K, and this was somewhere in highly union, regulated area like
> Boston or somewhere on the east coast.  Very impressive.

A friend of my dad's did that, some time around the JFK assassination.
The mental image of the house being jacked up stuck in my
impressionable mind.

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:


>On Fri, 19 Apr 2013, spamtrap1888 wrote:

>> On Apr 19, 5:59?am, Chicago Paddling-Fishing <j...@ripco.com> wrote:
>>> barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:

>>>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2013, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>>>>> max <betat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <kkp90d$4t...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> d...@adsl-64-108-193-191.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net (dye) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> I was lucky, only got a little seepage in the basement.
>>>
>>>>>>> How did other chi.splat members fare?
>>>
>>>>>>> --Ken
>>>

>>>>>> I did a shit ton of manual labor a couple+ years ago. putting in a2x2x50
>>>>>> french drain across my uphill property line. ?Results have been super
>>>>>> awesomefantastic. ?No water gets in the house evar.
>>>
>>>>>> Barb, otoh, faired less well, with a couple of inches in her basement.
>>>>>> Fortunately, her thoughtful and considerate boyfriend had the foresight
>>>>>> to outfit her with a big shopvac a few years ago, for days like today,
>>>>>> when he could hump it in and out of the basement. She's gonna need a
>>>>>> longer hose...
>>>
>>>>> sounds like she needs a sump pump, not a vacuum cleaner.
>>>> yes, well that, too.
>>>> However, at the moment, the Shop-Vac handled the water that I assume came
>>>> up through the floor storm drain, since it wasn't going DOWN the floor
>>>> drain.
>>>> This begs a few querstions:
>>>> 1) I obviously need a sewer guy to look in the 2 floor drains and the
>>>> disconnected downspout drain. ?But, if he finds, say, cracked tiles or
>>>> something, how do we know then figure out if it's gallons of groundwater
>>>> under the house getting in, or if it's actually coming from a storm sewer?
>>>> (I assume we fix the tiles or reline the pipes or whatever, at an
>>>> outrageously high dollar amount, first?)
>>>> 2) What if the backup is coming from the city storm drain that's right in
>>>> front of my house? ?I have a rectangle grate, and a city sewer manhole
>>>> cover right in front of my house. ?Will they actually do anything? Or am I
>>>> out of luck if it's their sewer that's coming back up in my basement?

>>>> 3) I get only a little bit of perimeter seepage, and only get a measurable

>>>> quantity of water when we have these torrentials. ?Sump pump is probably a
>>>> good idea, but first I have to get the storm drain fixed. ?I assume it's
>>>> against code to have a sump pump draining into the sewage drain? ?Or is

>>>> that only in some municipalities?

>>>> I've got a fan running and the de-humidifier running in the basement, but
>>>> if we have another downpour overnight, I may be vacuuming the water out
>>>> again...
>>>
>>> Do you have stand pipes? If you have floor drains attached to the city sewer,
>>> installing stand pipes with plumbing tape to make a tight seal may eliminate
>>> flooding as the water will seek the lowest point (i.e. someone elses basement
>>> without overhead sewers or stand pipes).
>>>
>>
>> I thought standpipes were prohibited.
>>

>Who the hell knows? I've heard with enough pressure, a stand pipe can
>create all sorts of other problems, so maybe they are prohibited. Of
>course, short of an inspector paying me a visit, who would know?

Perhaps if every neighbor used one. My parents used them at their house for
years to limit flooding. We live in an area of relative flatness. You'd want
to check thought to be sure.

In our old house we had a shutoff valve, but it's a manual thing (sort of like
a big round wheel you have to turn to cut off the house from the sewer).
Problem with it is it was manual and you never knew if it was going to flood
or not so it never prevented any floods that I recall. Of course, the shut
off valve sends even more pressure back into the pipes than a standpipe.

One of my neighbors also had a shutoff valve and a water alarm so that when he
heard the water alarm go off he run downstairs and close the valve, if he was
home. It didn't work out often that he was home for the floods.

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

[dye]

In article <alpine.DEB.2.02.1...@sghcrg.sghcrg.pbz>,
barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>
>
>On Fri, 19 Apr 2013, Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:

>
>> On 2013-04-19, barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) I get only a little bit of perimeter seepage, and only get a measurable

>>> quantity of water when we have these torrentials. Sump pump is probably a
>>> good idea, but first I have to get the storm drain fixed. I assume it's
>>> against code to have a sump pump draining into the sewage drain? Or is

>>> that only in some municipalities?
>>

>> NEVER connect a sump to the sanitary sewer, unless you relish the thought of
>> have shit back up through the now overburdened sewer into your house (and
>> your neighbors). It's definitely against code, and a Really Bad Idea.
>
>Yeah, IKFAATS, but that's what I figured.
>
>> Get the storm drain fixed first (assuming you can; if the city's storm drain
>> is the cause, you're pretty well screwed).

>
>I was browsing Angie's list tonight. I want someone who will figure out
>how the 3 drains connect, who will clean them all out, then videocam them,
>and finally help me figure out my options. When they backup, they then
>only go down really really really slowly, even if there's no water at the
>curb on the street. I'm not quite clear on how the plumbing is kept
>separate from the house to the street, unless it's just all 2 separate
>systems??

I think the fermilab's brainz trust and chi.splat can figger it out.

My late '20s house has 2 systems, kitchen/laundry rooms, and roof all
pipe to a catchbasin, the overflow which goes to the main sewer line,
along with the all the toilets.

My catchbasin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrmwXllbL3Q&list=UUVz_zuhM-YyHCI2HAphXn-w&index=16

or --

http://tinyurl.com/d6am2fb

The main line has the angled pipe for easy rodder entrance.

You can see in the video that you can rent a heavy duty rodder (sectional,
not the fifty foot junk that winds up and just doesn't work) and
a sewercamera from Thompson's Grand Rentals (call ahead to make
sure your outlet has them).

.MAX, are you in?

--Ken

--
Ken R. Dye an optimist is a guy |
Chicago, Illinois that has never had |
http://dye.datsun510.com/index1.html much experience |
dye1146 at g mail dot com archy |

[Nicko]

On Friday, April 26, 2013 10:23:31 PM UTC-5, barbie gee wrote:
>
> the problem with a sump pump, if the sewer is backing up, is, "where do I
>
> pump the water to?" Into the already overloaded sewers? Into my already
>
> flooded back lawn? where? I am considering maybe digging a dry well in
>
> the backyard, but I don't know if that's actually allowed. I don't see
>
> why not.

I am unclear about the concept of a "dry well" as you describe it. Is this like a big ole sealed swimming pool sorta thing into which you can flush the stuff from your basement?

[sticks]

A dry well is a way of getting rid of some local water without having
actual drainage pipes installed. A simple homeowner one usually ends up
about a foot round. The concept is to find a low spot where water is
ponding and has no way to drain out on its own. You dig a hole down to
a sand vein and fill the hole with clear stone. I've done these out in
the boonies on road jobs with 2' culvert pipes stood up and filled with
stone. You just have to get down to the sand. The water won't go away
as fast as it would in a storm sewer, but you'd be surprised how fast it
disappears down the hole.

That's the question....does she have sand under her yard? If not, a dry
well won't work.

[sticks]

On 4/26/2013 10:23 PM, barbie gee wrote:

> I am learning more about the city sewer system, RainBlockers, and my own
> plumbing than I ever thought I'd want or need to.
>
> Chicago proper is a combined system (thanks, whoever clued me in..), so
> while yes, the majority of water that backed up into my basement was
> "storm water", I have to now accept the fact that this water, while
> clear looking, nonetheless probably contained highly diluted "sewage"
> water in it. I have chosen to create my own reality so as not to be
> totally grossed out, and have arbitrarily decided that the sewage
> content of the water that backed up onto my basement floor is <1%.

being a scientist, you know bacteria is small. You should wear gloves,
keep away if you have an open sore, and clean up as soon as you can.
This is actually true of most "floodwater" situations, this one a little
more so.

> the problem with a sump pump, if the sewer is backing up, is, "where do
> I pump the water to?" Into the already overloaded sewers? Into my
> already flooded back lawn? where? I am considering maybe digging a dry
> well in the backyard, but I don't know if that's actually allowed. I

> don't see why not. I'm probably better off that I have the gutter
> downspout disconnected already, unless the back yard floods high enough
> to come through the basement door, like Bruce has.

A sump pump system is not really intended to remove flooding from over
the top of the hole. Chicago residents have this unique condition where
during heavy storms they back up into people's houses through the floor
drains because they have a system that combines storm and sewer, yet
does not have the required capacity to keep it all moving. A sump
insert has holes in it to collect water at a level under the basement
floor. A good friend of mine had to put in three pumps before finishing
his basement.

So, if your objective is to minimize the impact of water rising in your
basement, a sump would discharge the water outside the house. You still
have to clean up when the backup occurs and could never finish anything
until you elevated the system.

Another thing you can do now that you have time is organize your block
to get an aldercritter working on fixing the area drainage. Fuck snow,
make basement flooding the number one issue for him to get reelected.

[Adam H. Kerman]

As a taxpayer, I don't want to pay for someone else's flooding. Drainage
problems are entirely man made. Why can't the solution be to build homes
above the water table?

Duh.

Where I live, the basement is merely a few feet below street level, maybe
four feet. I've lived in buildings in which the basement is just a foot or
two below street level.

[sticks]

The depth of the water table has nothing to do with the root cause of
the problem. The problem is that when the city first started building
their waste water system, it wasn't a huge problem. This all ties into
their manipulation of the river, ending up with their drinking intakes a
mile into the lake, and their complete lack of forethought that the city
would continue growing. They are trying to separate new developments
with green areas for water to disperse, but will never be able to
convert the old system to handle only sanitary sewage. It is simply too
big now. The solution is the deep tunnel among other things. We still
get discharges into the lake. It sucks.

If you think you are out of the danger zone because you don't have a
basement, you are wrong. If the city continues to grow and the system
doesn't get improved enough, it could start pushing it's way out your
above ground toilet. Then whatya gonna do? It might even do this now,
I don't know.

Whenever you see construction crews working underground in the area you
live, you should always keep an eye on your drains and toilets. If
somehow they plug up a sanitary line and don't clean it out fast enough,
it can back up in a hurry. The story I told of the pole launching out
of the ground was when the homeowner noticed a 2nd floor toilet not
draining. Sometime they don't even know they did it until it backs up
somewhere.

[max]

In article <klegbv$aat$1...@dont-email.me>,

sure. first we'll need a couple passes with the tunnel boring machine.
I know where I can get a nice 150 kw diesel generator to run her
emergency sump pump.

[Mark Anderson]

In article boo...@nosespam.com says...
> sewer backup; through the floor drain(s)

I have resigned to letting rain water do what rain water wants to do.
My main issue was poo water which made every flood a hazmat situation
where I had to mop the basement with bleach. Totally disgusting and
there are some sights you can't erase from your memory so easily -- like
when bloody tampons float by.

I fixed this with a simple standpipe. And I mean simple in practically
zero cost. I shoved a plastic PVC pipe into the drain. Drains usually
are a standard size so you should find a pipe that fits snuggly. Total
cost was a single piece of pvc pipe and a plastic bag. No need to even
seal it in. A little leakage will be unnoticeable. A plastic bag taped
over the top is a poor man's sewer gas scrubber. It keeps most sewer
gas in the sewer. If you don't tape a plastic bag at the end of the
pipe the narrow pvc pipe focuses sewer gas up to the next level which
isn't very pleasant. Don't tape the bag so it's totally air tight
however. You want it to release pressure when the poo water rises into
the standpipe.

Since the standpipe every flood I have had has been fresh water. Since
I keep nothing underneath the flood line, ironically floods now tend to
clean the basement floor -- the only real issue being when they knock
out water heaters and/or the furnace. Since bad floods happen perhaps
once every other year it's not worth worrying about. The poo water
however -- that's a problem.

[smr]

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:27:14 -0500, barbie gee wrote:

> so what do those of us with "low" basements do? It's not like I'm 10 feet
> below grade here...

Well, according to Adam, you can go fuck yourself, it's your own fault for
buying a home with a basement below the table, and expecting the alderman
to spend Adam's hard-earned money (trying not to laugh here, given how much
of our tax money he wants shoved around for his transport fetishes) to fix
the drains that cause your problem is a non-starter.

--
smr

[Adam H. Kerman]

sticks <wolve...@charter.net> wrote:
>On 4/27/2013 8:54 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>As a taxpayer, I don't want to pay for someone else's flooding. Drainage
>>problems are entirely man made. Why can't the solution be to build homes
>>above the water table?

>>Duh.

>>Where I live, the basement is merely a few feet below street level, maybe
>>four feet. I've lived in buildings in which the basement is just a foot or
>>two below street level.

>The depth of the water table has nothing to do with the root cause of
>the problem. The problem is that when the city first started building
>their waste water system, it wasn't a huge problem. This all ties into
>their manipulation of the river, ending up with their drinking intakes a
>mile into the lake, and their complete lack of forethought that the city
>would continue growing. They are trying to separate new developments
>with green areas for water to disperse, but will never be able to
>convert the old system to handle only sanitary sewage. It is simply too
>big now. The solution is the deep tunnel among other things. We still
>get discharges into the lake. It sucks.

Deep Tunnel was never completed. The tunnels were never intended to store
sewerage, but to transport it to reservoirs. They never built all the
reservoirs. It's a tunnel and reservoir program.

After Deep Tunnel was announced, the metropolitan area continued to
pave over wetlands and flood plain. Federal law prevents floodway
development, but gee, they never update the maps, so it's all pointless.
We shouldn't build in flood plain.

Deep Tunnel was a complete waste of money.

>If you think you are out of the danger zone because you don't have a
>basement, you are wrong. If the city continues to grow and the system
>doesn't get improved enough, it could start pushing it's way out your
>above ground toilet. Then whatya gonna do? It might even do this now,
>I don't know.

Yes, you're right.

>Whenever you see construction crews working underground in the area you
>live, you should always keep an eye on your drains and toilets. If
>somehow they plug up a sanitary line and don't clean it out fast enough,
>it can back up in a hurry. The story I told of the pole launching out
>of the ground was when the homeowner noticed a 2nd floor toilet not
>draining. Sometime they don't even know they did it until it backs up
>somewhere.

Thanks for the tip.

[Adam H. Kerman]

smr <m...@shawnritchie.com> wrote:

>Well, according to Adam, you can go fuck yourself, it's your own fault for
>buying a home with a basement below the table, and expecting the alderman
>to spend Adam's hard-earned money (trying not to laugh here, given how much
>of our tax money he wants shoved around for his transport fetishes) to fix
>the drains that cause your problem is a non-starter.

You can go fuck yourself too, shawn.

[sticks]

On 4/27/2013 11:52 AM, barbie gee wrote:

> I've inserted a lot of confusion into this discussion, unintentionally.
>
> There are actually 4 ways water can or does get into the basement;
>
> seepage; through the foundation walls (cracks) and the floor

>
> sewer backup; through the floor drain(s)
>

> overflow; if the back yard floods and fills up enough with standing
> water on the lawn, and keeps filling, the water rises up and up, and
> finally is standing around the house itself. It then finds its way in,
> over the sill plate, under the basement door, and so on.
>
> The dry well would be to manage the back yard overflow problem.
> I've seen very basic ones, where a hole is dug, filled with gravel and
> covered over, and then there are fancier ones where there's a plastic
> liner installed and you can actually run your downspout into it.
>
> I just want a gigantic hole where a lot of water can seep down fast, and
> not drown the lawn.

Usually, you don't have an issue with standing water, correct? The only
time you need the dry well is for these sustained rain events. Now
seeing how you're smart, do a little math. Figure out how many square
feet it would take to fill a hole the size of a 55 gallon drum if it
rained 1 inch. It won't even cover anything but a small portion of your
roof. In a big storm, it won't do any good, unless you have a sand
vein. Dry wells don't do much good if you're just digging a hole in dirt.

[sticks]

On 4/27/2013 3:41 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> sticks <wolve...@charter.net> wrote:

> Deep Tunnel was never completed. The tunnels were never intended to store
> sewerage, but to transport it to reservoirs. They never built all the
> reservoirs. It's a tunnel and reservoir program.
>
> After Deep Tunnel was announced, the metropolitan area continued to
> pave over wetlands and flood plain. Federal law prevents floodway
> development, but gee, they never update the maps, so it's all pointless.
> We shouldn't build in flood plain.
>
> Deep Tunnel was a complete waste of money.

As far as I know, they're still trying to build it all. They haven't
stopped construction. Without it, things would be much worse. It's a
crazy expensive plan, but nobody had a better alternative.

[Adam H. Kerman]

sticks <wolve...@charter.net> wrote:
>On 4/27/2013 3:41 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>Deep Tunnel was never completed. The tunnels were never intended to store
>>sewerage, but to transport it to reservoirs. They never built all the
>>reservoirs. It's a tunnel and reservoir program.

>>After Deep Tunnel was announced, the metropolitan area continued to

>>pave over wetlands and flood plane. Federal law prevents floodway

>>development, but gee, they never update the maps, so it's all pointless.

>>We shouldn't build in flood plane.

>>Deep Tunnel was a complete waste of money.

>As far as I know, they're still trying to build it all. They haven't
>stopped construction. Without it, things would be much worse. It's a
>crazy expensive plan, but nobody had a better alternative.

Not to shift the costs of building in flood plane onto all the taxpayers
who didn't isn't a better alternative?

Again: After Deep Tunnel was announced, after construction began, after
portions of it opened, at no point did the region stop building in
flood plane.

Some people refuse to understand the futility of artificial flood control
methods. People keep repeating the same mistakes time and again that created
the mess to begin with.

[Bruce Esquibel]

barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:

> sand?
> maybe if I dig down to china!

Yeah, sand.

Everyone knows Chicago was built over a great desert basin, some say it was
originally larger than the Sahara.

I think the kind of hole he's talking about is in the hundreds of feet down,
not something you dig out over a weekend with a hand shovel.

I've seen construction sites around here that probably went down 20-30 feet
below street level and it's clay-mud, followed by more clay-mud, then some
clay followed by mud, then another layer of clay-mud.

I'm sure there is sand down there somewhere, but without an oil-drilling
rig, you aren't going to reach it.

-bruce
b...@ripco.com

[Geoff Gass]

you talk like it's been stopped. MWRD says next phase of Thornton comes
online in 2015, McCook (which will help the city) in 2017

[sticks]

On 4/28/2013 6:31 AM, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
> barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>
>> sand?
>> maybe if I dig down to china!
>
> Yeah, sand.
>
> Everyone knows Chicago was built over a great desert basin, some say it was
> originally larger than the Sahara.

Yeah, Cook county has relatively poor soils. Plus, you have to search
long and hard to find something that hasn't already been moved.

> I think the kind of hole he's talking about is in the hundreds of feet down,
> not something you dig out over a weekend with a hand shovel.

a typical dry well is like 2' X 4'-6'. I've never had to hand dig one.
We dug a hole with a backhoe and stuck the pipe down in it. Hand
digging them is a ton of work.

>
> I've seen construction sites around here that probably went down 20-30 feet
> below street level and it's clay-mud, followed by more clay-mud, then some
> clay followed by mud, then another layer of clay-mud.
>
> I'm sure there is sand down there somewhere, but without an oil-drilling
> rig, you aren't going to reach it.

I'm not saying a dry well in Chicago will do nothing. If you can't get
an area to drain, if you wish to do a whole bunch of work to keep small
amounts of water from going into the city storm water system, if it
isn't emergency drainage you're talking about knock yourself out. But
she is looking for something that will keep from flooding her basement.
The soil in her yard will probably not move enough water fast enough
to accomplish anything.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Bruce Esquibel <b...@ripco.com> wrote:
>barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:

>>sand?
>>maybe if I dig down to china!

>Yeah, sand.

>Everyone knows Chicago was built over a great desert basin, some say it was
>originally larger than the Sahara.

I didn't know that.

[Adam H. Kerman]

It was stopped for a great many years.

>MWRD says next phase of Thornton comes online in 2015, McCook (which
>will help the city) in 2017

I guess I wasn't keeping up.

[max]

In article <klkpcr$m90$2...@news.albasani.net>,

Really, Deep Tunnel will effectively never be done. Fuck it. Just
keep running the TBMs. It's also a nice source of dolomite. :-)

[Cydrome Leader]

barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 21 Apr 2013, tert in seattle wrote:
>
>> barbie gee wrote:
>>
>>> And yeah, my basement is dirty, dark, and dank. I'm working on it...
>>
>> what's the rpoblem? that's how basements are supposed to be
>
> It's the dirty and dark I really am finally fed up with.
> I'd like to clean it up and get it better organized, and then get the
> floor and perimeter walls sealed and then painted.
>
> Maybe I might even make a stairway inside the house into the basement
> without having to go outside. A trapdoor setup would be a hoot, I think.

the novelty would wear off in about 3 days, then centipedes and basement
stank would infiltrate your living area.

Some bar in whitetrashport has a trapdoor behind the bar. There's nothing
like falling into a dark hole once you open it up.

[Cydrome Leader]

spamtrap1888 <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 8:59?am, sticks <wolverin...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> BTW, I watched a show last night that has some gal who does real estate
>> stuff. ?Rehab addict I think it is called. ?She bought a house with a
>> bad foundation, raised the entire thing and put temporary steel beams
>> under it to hold it up, and proceeded to install new footings and block
>> wall! ?$30K, and this was somewhere in highly union, regulated area like
>> Boston or somewhere on the east coast. ?Very impressive.
>
> A friend of my dad's did that, some time around the JFK assassination.
> The mental image of the house being jacked up stuck in my
> impressionable mind.

If it was done in boston it's probably collapsed by now.

[Cydrome Leader]

barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Apr 2013, Nicko wrote:
>
>> On Friday, April 26, 2013 10:23:31 PM UTC-5, barbie gee wrote:
>>>
>>> the problem with a sump pump, if the sewer is backing up, is, "where do I
>>>
>>> pump the water to?" Into the already overloaded sewers? Into my already
>>>
>>> flooded back lawn? where? I am considering maybe digging a dry well in
>>>
>>> the backyard, but I don't know if that's actually allowed. I don't see
>>>
>>> why not.
>>
>> I am unclear about the concept of a "dry well" as you describe it. Is this like a big ole sealed swimming pool sorta thing into which you can flush the stuff from your basement?
>>
>
> I've inserted a lot of confusion into this discussion, unintentionally.
>
> There are actually 4 ways water can or does get into the basement;
>
> seepage; through the foundation walls (cracks) and the floor
>
> sewer backup; through the floor drain(s)
>
> overflow; if the back yard floods and fills up enough with standing water
> on the lawn, and keeps filling, the water rises up and up, and finally is
> standing around the house itself. It then finds its way in, over the sill
> plate, under the basement door, and so on.
>
> The dry well would be to manage the back yard overflow problem.
> I've seen very basic ones, where a hole is dug, filled with gravel and
> covered over, and then there are fancier ones where there's a plastic
> liner installed and you can actually run your downspout into it.
>
> I just want a gigantic hole where a lot of water can seep down fast, and
> not drown the lawn.

it sounds like your basement will work.

[spamtrap1888]

On Apr 29, 9:18 am, barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:

> I see your point, but man oh man, I HATE having to go outside to get into
> the basement.  HATE IT.

It's a safety feature. I might have mentioned this before: A friend of
my wife's was staying with friends in Missouri. The last day, they
went to work and she stayed behind, waiting for a shuttle to the
airport. Their kitchen had a number of doors: to the pantry, to the
dining room, to a powder room, and to the basement. The steps to the
basement were only half width.

So, wanting to use the "powder room" (aka half bath) she opened the
door to what turned out to be the basement, stepped in, and fell eight
feet to the concrete basement floor. I forget if she had her cell
phone, or if she had to wait for her friends to get back from work.
She was laid up for a long time.

[tert in seattle]

spamtrap1888 wrote:

> On Apr 29, 9:18?am, barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> > barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com> wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 21 Apr 2013, tert in seattle wrote:
>> >>> barbie gee wrote:
>>

>> >>>> And yeah, my basement is dirty, dark, and dank. ?I'm working on it...
>>
>> >>> what's the rpoblem? ?that's how basements are supposed to be

>>
>> >> It's the dirty and dark I really am finally fed up with.
>> >> I'd like to clean it up and get it better organized, and then get the
>> >> floor and perimeter walls sealed and then painted.
>>
>> >> Maybe I might even make a stairway inside the house into the basement

>> >> without having to go outside. ?A trapdoor setup would be a hoot, I think.

>>
>> > the novelty would wear off in about 3 days, then centipedes and basement
>> > stank would infiltrate your living area.
>>
>> > Some bar in whitetrashport has a trapdoor behind the bar. There's nothing
>> > like falling into a dark hole once you open it up.
>>
>> I see your point, but man oh man, I HATE having to go outside to get into

>> the basement. ?HATE IT.

>
> It's a safety feature. I might have mentioned this before: A friend of
> my wife's was staying with friends in Missouri. The last day, they
> went to work and she stayed behind, waiting for a shuttle to the
> airport. Their kitchen had a number of doors: to the pantry, to the
> dining room, to a powder room, and to the basement. The steps to the
> basement were only half width.
>
> So, wanting to use the "powder room" (aka half bath) she opened the
> door to what turned out to be the basement, stepped in, and fell eight
> feet to the concrete basement floor. I forget if she had her cell
> phone, or if she had to wait for her friends to get back from work.
> She was laid up for a long time.

this story is fucked up in like six different ways

[smr]

Well, you can simplify by noting that it's fucked up in one, simple way:
Dix posted it.

--
smr

[spamtrap1888]

Only because it really happened.

[tert in seattle]

spamtrap1888 wrote:

something happened, but nothing happened in the way that this fucked up
story relates it

[spamtrap1888]

OK, get me rewrite!

[tert in seattle]

spamtrap1888 wrote:

1. what does it matter if it's Missouri?

2. how does she not know the dangers lurking behind that door if it is the
last day of her visit? the hosts said nothing? that's fucked up

3. wtf are half-width stairs? sounds fucked up to me

4. who opens a door and doesn't immediately recognize the difference
between stairs to a basement and a bathroom? how dark was it? maybe
your wife's friend was fucked up

5. as smr said, the dix element of story telling - the whole premise of
safety as explanation for the outside entrance to a basement, whether as
some stupid joke or intended seriously, with this fucked up story as
evidence - fucks it up all on its own