It is almost daily now that I see another poll started in the forum, regarding kernels or the future of Chakra. Is this really how all you want things to be decided now? The voice of team members has no weight, but it is the most vocal among the users who decide what is happening? I for one, totally disagree that kernels are something decided outside the team.....
I of course value what the user base wants and listen to their opinions, and I think that one of the added values of Chakra is the close contact we keep with the user base, but yes, as I've already stated in other threads, first discuss things with the team as a whole and then get out to the public with polls or other stuff.
Il giorno 21 febbraio 2012 21:13, abveritas <veritasf...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> It is almost daily now that I see another poll started in the forum, > regarding kernels or the future of Chakra. Is this really how all you want > things to be decided now? The voice of team members has no weight, but it > is the most vocal among the users who decide what is happening? I for one, > totally disagree that kernels are something decided outside the team.....
+1 to Daniele. I think we should listen to users' opinion, but in order to do this and really give the users a voice, we should present ourselves as a team with a precise opinion on the matter. If someone gets up with a nice idea we should first discuss it.
Lisa
Il giorno 21 febbraio 2012 21:30, Daniele <daniele.co...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> I of course value what the user base wants and listen to their opinions, > and I think that one of the added values of Chakra is the close contact we > keep with the user base, but yes, as I've already stated in other threads, > first discuss things with the team as a whole and then get out to the > public with polls or other stuff.
-- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Just this week as example. Manu had to got the forum to say he is against a new lts kernel, poll did not even include that option, in discussing in IRC I was against moving to 3.0 as lts, now the users seem to have decided that exactly that kernel is in the repo's. Not once did I hear anything about adding a PAE kernel, until I saw a poll in the forum
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 15:35, Lisa Vitolo <syn.shai...@gmail.com> wrote: > +1 to Daniele. > I think we should listen to users' opinion, but in order to do this and > really give the users a voice, we should present ourselves as a team with a > precise opinion on the matter. If someone gets up with a nice idea we > should first discuss it.
> Lisa
> Il giorno 21 febbraio 2012 21:30, Daniele <daniele.co...@gmail.com> ha > scritto:
>> I of course value what the user base wants and listen to their opinions, >> and I think that one of the added values of Chakra is the close contact we >> keep with the user base, but yes, as I've already stated in other threads, >> first discuss things with the team as a whole and then get out to the >> public with polls or other stuff.
> -- > They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so > bad as a lot of ignorance.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "chakra-devel" group. > To post to this group, send email to chakra-devel@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > chakra-devel+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/chakra-devel?hl=en.
[20:42:42] <[philm]> linux-lts is a topic I want to talk to you first. 2.6.35.14 was the last official patch out there for 35-series. Fedora added some security patches for F14 and stopped it with 21.11.11. So this kernel is almost dead. I only added new features to keep up with linux-pkg. Maintaining 35-series is really not my cup of tea. Greg does a great job with 3.2-series and uses 3.0 as lts-version. I rather change the version to that one and adopt all linux changes or drop linux-lts at all. What do you think on that one? or is community vote needed on this? [20:43:34] <abveritas> might be a vote is needed, not to get all up in arms [20:43:41] <[philm]> ubuntu is the only distro maintaining a 35-kernel. they have a huge patch with 3.6 mb zipped. getting into that one is a little to hard. maybe I search for other distros using 35 still [20:43:48] <abveritas> but we can't keep an unmaintained kernel [20:45:10] <[philm]> Andi stopped maintaining it: http://halobates.de/blog/ [20:45:45] <abveritas> yes, I read, the oldest maintained lts is 3.0 [20:46:08] <[philm]> well it runs still but we can't grantee safty with that one [20:46:17] <[philm]> 3.0 is the one arch went with [20:46:32] <[philm]> imo it was a good kernel until we dropped it for 3.1 [20:46:35] <abveritas> some users will have hardware issues with anything 3.xx [20:46:37] <[philm]> most issues are solved now. ... [20:54:56] <[philm]> we have no install-media with linux-lts on it [20:55:04] <abveritas> no idea, since 3.0 improved I'm sure, since we had it last [20:55:32] <abveritas> it was mostly sound that was not supported in older hardware [20:55:50] <[philm]> I'd say I adopt to 3.0 and add all extra stuff I've with linux-pkg and upload it to staging [20:56:01] <[philm]> since I've to rebuild all extra modules anyway
About tuxonice:
[20:07:55] <[philm]> took me some time to get tuxonice working as I want it to do [20:08:30] <abveritas> audacity bundle doesn't want to work as needed.... [20:09:00] <[philm]> will adopt the linux-lts kernel to this change too. having it as option makes my PC work faster. hibernation is really fast now. takes 3sec on my box to boot chakra now [20:09:13] <abveritas> good [20:09:27] <[philm]> and we can theme it even [20:09:38] <[philm]> I added the old-way to have a fallback [20:09:44] <[philm]> my netbook don't like tuxonice
About PAE:
[10:26:52] <[philm]> what do you think. shall I make the i686 kernel to pae and drop the support of older CPUs like Pentium M [10:27:11] <[philm]> http://chakra-project.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?pid=48160#p48160 [10:27:14] <manutortosa> well we should ask the rest, but yes [10:27:23] <manutortosa> for me, pae is the way to go [10:27:32] <manutortosa> anyway kde is not for old computers [10:27:52] <[philm]> then we might go for PAE [10:28:10] <[philm]> Will make another poll for this [10:28:13] <manutortosa> is important for netbooks with 4gb mem [10:28:20] <manutortosa> and i686 cpus [10:29:23] <[philm]> normal i686 only supports up to 4G [10:29:55] <[philm]> with PAE it supports up to 64
So the whole kernel-situation is like this:
Linux-Package has the current stable kernel 3.2-series which we will keep as long as it gets maintained. Adding features to it was and is always discussed with the team first. This also counts for PAE. More and more user want to have a PAE kernel. Archlinux don't go for that one. Neither should we. Adding a modified config file to CCR is enough. The polls only reflect what the User-Base wants. It is only a small indicator for the team-decisions. Let's say 20% - 80%. For PAE I'll start a new thread here in the Mailing-List.
Linux-lts Package we used 2.6.35-series for over one year now. Late November 2012 I rebuilt that kernel to add some features to it. .14 was the last maintained release by Andi Keen then only Ubuntu maintained it directly for their distro. No public patches got out there. The only question was: "Drop it or change to 3.0-series which will get supported for 2 years by Greg Kroah-Hartman. 78% of the User-Base want to have linux-lts 3.0-series. Then I asked around and decided to upload the new packages to staging. After I finished I left it there one day.
Tested it on several boxes and moved it then to testing for bigger review. Most users even don't know what a longtime support kernel is. So that polls are only a vage tendency to see what those people think.
Moving the new linux-lts 3.0-series to stable repositories we still have the same rules to vote as the team. Read on for the PAE situation in the next thread.
Another 2 cents about this: Decisions should be made only by the team and never by polls, because those are the people who have the knowledge and in the end have to work with it. Obviously if the team is undecided, we can start to create polls, but I don't think this should be the case with Kernel issues etc.
More important is imo to follow the Chakra Way and focus on KDE, whatever that means. I don't think all the users have that on the radar. ;)
Lukas
Am Dienstag, 21. Februar 2012, 21:30:19 schrieb Daniele:
I of course value what the user base wants and listen to their opinions, and I think that one of the added values of Chakra is the close contact we keep with the user base, but yes, as I've already stated in other threads, first discuss things with the team as a whole and then get out to the public with polls or other stuff.
Il giorno 21 febbraio 2012 21:13, abveritas <veritasf...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
It is almost daily now that I see another poll started in the forum, regarding kernels or the future of Chakra. Is this really how all you want things to be decided now? The voice of team members has no weight, but it is the most vocal among the users who decide what is happening? I for one, totally disagree that kernels are something decided outside the team..... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "chakra-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to chakra-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to chakra- devel+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chakra- devel?hl=en.
Forum polls are just to ask people to get informations about the community thoughts. Decisions should be always made by people with knowledge - which is the team.
Am Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2012, 17:11:22 schrieb Lukas Appelhans:
Another 2 cents about this: Decisions should be made only by the team and never by polls, because those are the people who have the knowledge and in the end have to work with it. Obviously if the team is undecided, we can start to create polls, but I don't think this should be the case with Kernel issues etc.
More important is imo to follow the Chakra Way and focus on KDE, whatever that means. I don't think all the users have that on the radar. ;)
Lukas
Am Dienstag, 21. Februar 2012, 21:30:19 schrieb Daniele:
I of course value what the user base wants and listen to their opinions, and I think that one of the added values of Chakra is the close contact we keep with the user base, but yes, as I've already stated in other threads, first discuss things with the team as a whole and then get out to the public with polls or other stuff.
Il giorno 21 febbraio 2012 21:13, abveritas <veritasf...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
It is almost daily now that I see another poll started in the forum, regarding kernels or the future of Chakra. Is this really how all you want things to be decided now? The voice of team members has no weight, but it is the most vocal among the users who decide what is happening? I for one, totally disagree that kernels are something decided outside the team..... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "chakra-devel" group. To post to this group, send email to chakra-devel@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to chakra- devel+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chakra- devel?hl=en.
