Railo Dictionary Support - Why It's Important - CFML plugin for IntelliJ IDEA

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Message from discussion Railo Dictionary Support - Why It's Important
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From: Kai Koenig <grmblz...@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Railo Dictionary Support - Why It's Important
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:19:39 +1300
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To: cfml-plugin-for-intellij-idea@googlegroups.com
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It's done by Jetbrains - part of the commercial edition of IntelliJ =
IDEA.

Cheers
Kai

> Hallo, first time I am posting here... but may I ask a dumb question?=20=

>=20
> Who actually codes the IntelliJ CFML plugin? Is there anyway I can =
help? (I have a little experience with both Railo and writing IDE's)=20
>=20
>=20
> Mark Drew
> =20
> Railo Technologies	Professional Open Source
> skype: mark_railo	m...@getrailo.com
> +44 7971 852296	http://www.getrailo.com
>=20
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 02:50, Matt Quackenbush <quackfu...@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> +1 :-)
>>=20
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SII
>>=20
>> On Oct 2, 2012 8:31 PM, "Jamie Krug" <ja...@thekrugs.com> wrote:
>> While I wholeheartedly support the general aim of these issues, I'm a =
bit concerned with the potential scope of the requests. In other words, =
it sounds "really hard" for JetBrains to implement these finer details, =
for somewhat little gain overall.
>>=20
>> In particular, Matt did mention that much of this would simply be =
fixed by copying the Adobe ColdFusion 9 syntax dictionary over whatever =
the existing Railo implementation is. The truth is, there are very few =
differences in syntax support between ColdFusion 9 and the latest stable =
Railo build. The following three examples are the only ones I can think =
of, and at least one (the colon used for implicit struct definition) is =
finally supported in CF10:
>>=20
>> aStruct =3D { key : val };
>>=20
>> aVal =3D myObject[ methodName ]( arg );
>>=20
>> aString =3D "look, no semicolon!"
>>=20
>> Frankly, I'd be quite happy if IDEA simply supported the "best of" =
bleeding edge CFML syntax right now, in general. I'd rather have the =
above "errors" overlooked as valid when coding for CF9, as opposed to =
showing as errors when I'm coding for Railo. Coding an open source =
project to support something like CF8, CF9, Railo X and OpenBD X =
requires good testing--the IDE syntax highlighting seems to much less =
important, IMO.
>>=20
>> So, for me, if IDEA simply validated syntax that would run on CF10 =
and/or the latest Railo, I'd be a happy camper! I realize that this =
doesn't suit everyone, and there are valid use cases for additional =
support, but I'm guessing I'm in the majority, and this is a much easier =
improvement for JetBrains to target.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>>=20
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Dave Merrill <enigm...@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I believe I was told by someone at JetBrains that they =
thought it would be a lot of thrash to validate against multiple =
dialects. Too bad, since it's actually what I need. Guess we let them =
figure that out...
>>=20
>> Dave
>>=20
>> On Oct 2, 2012 1:25 PM, "Matt Quackenbush" <quackfu...@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>> True that. I've created duplicate tickets more than once because I =
couldn't find what I was looking for.  Anyways, voted up and trying to =
get more votes for it, too. ;-)
>>=20
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Dave Merrill <enigm...@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>> There is an issue, IDEA-87036. I added a comment there just now.
>>=20
>> Unfortunately, it's hard to find such things even when you're looking =
for them, so lots of votes are hard to come by.
>>=20
>> Dave
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Matt Quackenbush =
<quackfu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for the votes, Dave! :-)
>>=20
>> I also agree about the debugger. While I'm not a CFB user (the stupid =
ass license mechanism won't run on Linux and Adobe aren't interested in =
the Linux users), the debugging in IDEA for things like Groovy is bad =
ass awesome, and I'd welcome something like that for CFML work!=20
>>=20
>> Great idea on the "must be valid across all selected dictionaries" =
bit. That would be way cool for open source work or for whatever reason =
one must support multiple engines. I looked for a ticket to vote up but =
couldn't find one. If there is one (or if you raise one), please post =
the link. ;-)
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Dave Merrill <enigm...@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>> Excellent point Matt, voted up all those issues.=20
>>=20
>> The other language-level feature that'd really be helpful to those of =
us who work on products that support multiple CFML engines and versions =
I know is much harder. That's the ability to say that code must be valid =
in ALL of a selected set of dialects. For example, we currently support =
ACF 8, ACF 9, and Railo 3. Don't care about other CFML versions or =
flavors, but our code needs to run on all of those, so choosing one =
language isn't a lot like reality for us. Proper support for Railo is =
obviously necessary, but it's only part of the picture for some =
developers.
>>=20
>> And just to say it, the big non-koolaid reason to use ColdFusion =
Builder is a real debugger, something that's been discussed for IDEA for =
quite some time, but nothing visible has come of it so far. More than =
any other single feature, a real CFML debugger for IDEA, like it has for =
a number of other languages, would remove the single biggest attraction =
of CFB, and I'm quite certain, increase IDEA's penetration in the CFML =
market.
>>=20
>> Dave Merrill
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Matt Quackenbush =
<quackfu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good morning (or afternoon or evening, depending upon where in this =
wonderful world you might be)!  I have recently created a series of =
tickets related to the Railo dictionary for IDEA, but I wanted to take a =
moment to explain a) what I believe to be the quickest/easiest way =
forward, and b) why I believe it is important to actually give merit to =
such tickets. Thanks in advance for listening/reading! :-)
>>=20
>> 1. The Quickest Way Forward
>>=20
>> I believe the quickest way forward would be to just copy the CF9 =
dictionary and implement that copy as the Railo dictionary. This alone =
would wipe out all but one (I think) of the tickets listed below. This =
would allow Railo users to focus on only the differences between CF and =
Railo rather than having to try and write up a ton of tickets that =
really are already fixed just by using the current CF9 dictionary as the =
basis for the Railo dictionary.
>>=20
>> 2. Why Railo is Important to JetBrains
>>=20
>> In my experience, once Adobe released ColdFusion Builder, Adobe =
ColdFusion users *that are willing to pay for an IDE* are overwhelmingly =
going to use Builder. Call it "drinking the koolaid" or whatever you =
want, but the vast majority of those users stick with All Things Adobe. =
So catering solely to them is not likely to gain JetBrains much =
business.
>>=20
>> On the other hand, virtually every Railo user I know also works in a =
variety of other languages. Groovy, Java, Python, PHP, Ruby, etc. These =
folks are, in my estimation, a ripe market for an IDE that supports a =
wide range of languages. That IDE, in my humble (yet accurate) opinion =
should be Intellij IDEA! :-)
>>=20
>> I believe fixing and keeping up-to-date with the Railo dictionary =
will not only make those of us who are already otherwise very happy IDEA =
users even more happy, but will assist in marketing IDEA to the =
increasingly polyglot Railo-based developer who would love to have one =
IDE to work in across all their languages/projects.
>>=20
>>=20
>> (At least some) Railo Dictionary Tickets
>> http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92342
>> http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92290
>> http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92289
>> http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92291
>> http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92292
>> http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-90264
>> Thanks again for IDEA, and for listening to IDEA's users' ideas!  :-)
>>=20
>>=20
>> P.S. If you're a Railo user who would like to see better Railo =
language support in IDEA, please vote up the tickets!  (You can also =
reply here if you wish, but voting up the tickets is the first priority! =
 :-)
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>It's done by Jetbrains - part of the commercial edition of IntelliJ IDEA.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div>Kai</div><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hallo, first time I am posting here... but may I ask a dumb question?&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Who actually codes the IntelliJ CFML plugin? Is there anyway I can help? (I have a little experience with both Railo and writing IDE's)&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">Mark Drew<br>&nbsp;<br>Railo Technologies<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; ">	</span>Professional&nbsp;Open Source<br>skype: mark_railo<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; ">	</span><a href="mailto:m...@getrailo.com">m...@getrailo.com</a><br>+44 7971 852296<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; ">	</span><a href="http://www.getrailo.com">http://www.getrailo.com</a></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 3 Oct 2012, at 02:50, Matt Quackenbush &lt;<a href="mailto:quackfu...@gmail.com">quackfu...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><p>+1 :-) </p><p>Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SII</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 2, 2012 8:31 PM, "Jamie Krug" &lt;<a href="mailto:ja...@thekrugs.com">ja...@thekrugs.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
While I wholeheartedly support the general aim of these issues, I'm a bit concerned with the potential scope of the requests. In other words, it sounds "really hard" for JetBrains to implement these finer details, for somewhat little gain overall.<div>

<br></div><div>In particular, Matt did mention that much of this would simply be fixed by copying the Adobe ColdFusion 9 syntax dictionary over whatever the existing Railo implementation is. The truth is, there are very few differences in syntax support between ColdFusion 9 and the latest stable Railo build. The following three examples are the only ones I can think of, and at least one (the colon used for implicit struct definition) is finally supported in CF10:</div>

<div><br></div><div>aStruct = { key : val };</div><div><br></div>aVal = myObject[ methodName ]( arg );<br><br><div>aString = "look, no semicolon!"</div><div><br></div><div>Frankly, I'd be quite happy if IDEA simply supported the "best of" bleeding edge CFML syntax right now, in general. I'd rather have the above "errors" overlooked as valid when coding for CF9, as opposed to showing as errors when I'm coding for Railo. Coding an open source project to support something like CF8, CF9, Railo X and OpenBD X requires good testing--the IDE syntax highlighting seems to much less important, IMO.</div>

<div><br></div><div>So, for me, if IDEA simply validated syntax that would run on CF10 and/or the latest Railo, I'd be a happy camper! I realize that this doesn't suit everyone, and there are valid use cases for additional support, but I'm guessing I'm in the majority, and this is a much easier improvement for JetBrains to target.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br>Jamie</div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Dave Merrill <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:enigm...@gmail.com" target="_blank">enigm...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p>Unfortunately, I believe I was told by someone at JetBrains that they thought it would be a lot of thrash to validate against multiple dialects. Too bad, since it's actually what I need. Guess we let them figure that out...</p>

<span><font color="#888888"><p>Dave </p></font></span><div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 2, 2012 1:25 PM, "Matt Quackenbush" &lt;<a href="mailto:quackfu...@gmail.com" target="_blank">quackfu...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


True that. I've created duplicate tickets more than once because I couldn't find what I was looking for.&nbsp; Anyways, voted up and trying to get more votes for it, too. ;-)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Dave Merrill <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:enigm...@gmail.com" target="_blank">enigm...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>




<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">There is an issue, <a href="http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-87036" target="_blank">IDEA-87036</a>. I added a comment there just now.<div>




<br></div><div>Unfortunately, it's hard to find such things even when you're looking for them, so lots of votes are hard to come by.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<div><br></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">Dave</font></span><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Matt Quackenbush <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:quackfu...@gmail.com" target="_blank">quackfu...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>





<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks for the votes, Dave! :-)<br><br>I also agree about the debugger. While I'm not a CFB user (the stupid ass license mechanism won't run on Linux and Adobe aren't interested in the Linux users), the debugging in IDEA for things like Groovy is bad ass awesome, and I'd welcome something like that for CFML work! <br>







<br>Great idea on the "must be valid across all selected dictionaries" bit. That would be way cool for open source work or for whatever reason one must support multiple engines. I looked for a ticket to vote up but couldn't find one. If there is one (or if you raise one), please post the link. ;-)<br>







<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Dave Merrill <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:enigm...@gmail.com" target="_blank">enigm...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">







Excellent point Matt, voted up all those issues.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>The other language-level feature that'd really be helpful to&nbsp;those of us who work on products that support multiple CFML engines and versions&nbsp;I know is much harder. That's the ability to say that code must be valid in ALL of a selected set of dialects. For example, we currently support ACF 8, ACF 9, and Railo 3. Don't care about other CFML versions or flavors, but our code needs to run on all of those, so choosing one language isn't a lot like reality for us. Proper support for Railo is obviously necessary, but it's only part of the picture for some developers.</div>








<div><div><br></div><div>And just to say it, the big non-koolaid reason to use ColdFusion Builder is a real debugger, something that's been discussed for IDEA for quite some time, but nothing visible has come of it so far. More than any other single feature, a real CFML debugger for IDEA, like it has for a number of other languages, would remove the single biggest attraction of CFB, and I'm quite certain, increase IDEA's&nbsp;penetration in the&nbsp;CFML market.</div>







<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">Dave Merrill</font></span><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Matt Quackenbush <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:quackfu...@gmail.com" target="_blank">quackfu...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>








<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Good morning (or afternoon or evening, depending upon where in this wonderful world you might be)!&nbsp; I have recently created a series of tickets related to the Railo dictionary for IDEA, but I wanted to take a moment to explain a) what I believe to be the quickest/easiest way forward, and b) why I believe it is important to actually give merit to such tickets. Thanks in advance for listening/reading! :-)<br>










<br>1. The Quickest Way Forward<br><br>I believe the quickest way forward would be to just copy the CF9 dictionary and implement that copy as the Railo dictionary. This alone would wipe out all but one (I think) of the tickets listed below. This would allow Railo users to focus on only the differences between CF and Railo rather than having to try and write up a ton of tickets that really are already fixed just by using the current CF9 dictionary as the basis for the Railo dictionary.<br>










<br>2. Why Railo is Important to JetBrains<br><br>In my experience, once Adobe released ColdFusion Builder, Adobe ColdFusion users *that are willing to pay for an IDE* are overwhelmingly going to use Builder. Call it "drinking the koolaid" or whatever you want, but the vast majority of those users stick with All Things Adobe. So catering solely to them is not likely to gain JetBrains much business.<br>










<br>On the other hand, virtually every Railo user I know also works in a variety of other languages. Groovy, Java, Python, PHP, Ruby, etc. These folks are, in my estimation, a ripe market for an IDE that supports a wide range of languages. That IDE, in my humble (yet accurate) opinion should be Intellij IDEA! :-)<br>










<br>I believe fixing and keeping up-to-date with the Railo dictionary will not only make those of us who are already otherwise very happy IDEA users even more happy, but will assist in marketing IDEA to the increasingly polyglot Railo-based developer who would love to have one IDE to work in across all their languages/projects.<br>










<br><br>(At least some) Railo Dictionary Tickets<br><ul><li><a href="http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92342" target="_blank">http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92342</a></li><li><a href="http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92290" target="_blank">http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92290</a></li>










<li><a href="http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92289" target="_blank">http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92289</a></li><li><a href="http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92291" target="_blank">http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92291</a></li>










<li><a href="http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92292" target="_blank">http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-92292</a></li><li><a href="http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-90264" target="_blank">http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-90264</a><br>










</li></ul>Thanks again for IDEA, and for listening to IDEA's users' ideas!&nbsp; :-)<br><br><br>P.S. If you're a Railo user who would like to see better Railo language support in IDEA, please vote up the tickets!&nbsp; (You can also reply here if you wish, but voting up the tickets is the first priority!&nbsp; :-)<br>










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