IDE Survey

[Priest, James (NIH/NIEHS) [C]]

CFEclipse community - I've got a CFIDE survey setup - it mimics one
recently done by Adobe but since it's unlikely we (the community) will
ever see any results from that, I thought it might be useful to collect
that information and make it available to the community.

There has been some talk (mainly on the Aptana forums) about the slow
progress of CFEclipse. I'm not going to get into that fray but I did
think it might be useful to collect some information on what people want
in a CFML IDE. This becomes even more important now with Open Blue
Dragon becoming available soon. Having a open-source IDE would nicely
compliment a open-source CFML engine.

This data will be available to anyone... Mark can use it to kick-start
development on CFEclipe again or anyone else...

If you have a few moments please take it...

http://www.thecrumb.com/2008/04/09/the-open-cfml-ide-survey/

Thanks,
Jim

[Lola J. Lee Beno]

Priest, James (NIH/NIEHS) [C] wrote:
> There has been some talk (mainly on the Aptana forums) about the slow
> progress of CFEclipse. I'm not going to get into that fray but I did
> think it might be useful to collect some information on what people wan

Where in the Aptana forum are these talks occuring? A link would be nice
so that those of us who are interested can go check this out.

--
Lola J. Lee Beno - ColdFusion Programmer/Web Designer for Hire
http://www.lolajl.net/resume | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/
"In rivers, the water that you touch is the last of what has passed
and the first of that which comes; so with present time."
- Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519)

[Priest, James (NIH/NIEHS) [C]]

Sorry... There was a link in my blog entry...

http://support.aptana.com/asap/browse/STU-284

Jim

[Mark Drew]

Just for your info, and to make it more obvious, I AM looking into
developing CFE via the Aptana API way of doing editors.... This is
just a looking into it stage, so dont expect things to happen or ask
me for beta's or anything.

MD

[Priest, James (NIH/NIEHS) [C]]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Drew [mailto:mark...@gmail.com]

> Just for your info, and to make it more obvious, I AM looking into
> developing CFE via the Aptana API way of doing editors.... This is
> just a looking into it stage, so dont expect things to happen or ask
> me for beta's or anything.

Alpha? :) That's great news! I was going to let the survey run a few
days and I'll make sure to send you a copy of the results...

Jim

[Mark Mandel]

So Mark, can I have a Beta? ;o)

Mark

--
E: mark....@gmail.com
W: www.compoundtheory.com

[denstar]

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:58 AM, Mark Drew <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just for your info, and to make it more obvious, I AM looking into
> developing CFE via the Aptana API way of doing editors.... This is
> just a looking into it stage, so dont expect things to happen or ask
> me for beta's or anything.
>
> MD

I'd say "screw Aptana, go with DLTK".

Really.

I've been dicking around, since I've got a new development machine--

Running Eclipse 3.4M5, my slightly patched version of CFEclipse 1.3.5
(called 1.3.6 in the google group files), and all the j2ee goodies (I
went with the java ee bundle of 3.4M5
http://phoenix.eclipse.org/packages/ ). AWESOME! Haven't had any
problems with CFE or Eclipse, compared to my last install (which
wasn't very bad-- maybe every two weeks, I'd need a re-start).

I've been playing with javascript IDE plugins for a while... JSEclipse
had been the de-facto, but WOW am I liking the JSDT stuff!! THAT's
how I want cfeclipse to be. Wow. Automatically run commands "on
save", totally configurable... auto-code clean up, etc., etc.. Just
awesome. (The goal of JSDT is to have the same stuff as the java
editor (JDT) has).

And so I was like... hmmmm... this is pimp, but why didn't they do it
using DLTK? What's the deal? Then I look at DLTK-- it ties right in
with the JSDT stuff!!! This means, we could have a partition scanner
that uses the JSDT stuff for javascript (or, like probably WTP (think
CSS, etc.)) - oh, it just goes on and on.
Tie in with the Data Tools stuff to have REAL sql editing--
table/column auto-completion/suggestion, query validation, etc..

All right while editing the same file. No more opening this part with
CFE, that with JSEclipse, the other with Data Tools... not that
keeping it all separate isn't great, and better, but sometimes, we be
mix'n, neh?

Heck, use the Remote Target Management's Remote System Explorer stuff
to handle all the ftp/sftp/etc. filesystem needs (THANK YOU whoever it
was that suggested the RSE-- that is a really nice way of working with
remote systems... auto-upload on save, woot!).

Wow. This is just a stream of thought, and messy and nasty, but I'm
starting to think I could maintain a pretty kick ass IDE with very
little work, were I to do it right. Sure you'd need other plugins,
but that's sorta the point.

Eh.

Just thinking out loud,

sorry
o
loppy

|De|\|

--
"Being frightened is an experience you can't buy."
---- Anthony Price - Sion Crossing (1984)

[Mark Mandel]

I had a look at DLTK a while back, and it has next to 0
documentation... so it looks cool on the surface, it's pretty hard to
get into.

Mark

--
E: mark....@gmail.com
W: www.compoundtheory.com

[denstar]

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Mark Mandel <mark....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I had a look at DLTK a while back, and it has next to 0
> documentation... so it looks cool on the surface, it's pretty hard to
> get into.
>
> Mark

It had been a while since I looked at it, which was why I was so
heartened to see a good bit of progress, and tie-in with stuff like
JSDT.

I didn't mean to thread-jack, and I can understand the allure of the
Aptana idea-- more developers for free, sorta-- but we can achieve the
same idea by linking up with existing eclipse foundation projects, and
not be tied to the "sorta cool but I'm still not 100% on board"
business model.

You're right about the lack of docs tho... there seems to be a bit
more now, but it's still pretty sparse.

The nice thing is that there is /plenty/ of source code out there.
There's the sources for the demos from eclipseCon08, which I'm sorta
perusing currently, and then the existing sources for the projects I
like.

When I wanted to add key-binding to Subclipse, I looked at CVS, and
what do you know, there was (basically) the answer. Plus a bit of
knowledge (oh, I see... they got around /that/ problem by doing
/this/... the bonus knowledge wasn't even specific to adding
key-binding, but it has helped with both subclipse and cfeclipse).

I've found that I almost prefer real, working code to play with than
the wizard-ish walk-thru type deals. You see the rest of the
problems, sorta... bah. Not really being very clear, I know. And
it's not as if you can't see Aptana's sources, as well as get easier
help in the beginning.

There's just something I like about not being tied to money at all, I
guess. And the idea of joining with Eclipse proper maybe, for some
reason.

Eh. Random thoughts, probably better put to "paper" on a blog,
although I can't seem to muster this stuff much for blogs. ::shrug::

--
denilicious

[Mike Henke]

I like the idea of staying clear of Aptana also and the one editor to
rule them all idea instead of having seperate editors for css and js
advanced feature. But I love CFEclipse, so Mark knows what he is
doing.

[Sonny Savage]

After reading your email, I went and watched a couple of the DLTK videos.  That is some exciting stuff!!!

[Jim Priest]

On Apr 11, 1:37 am, denstar <valliants...@gmail.com> wrote:

Great dialog and ideas here!!

> There's just something I like about not being tied to money at all, I
> guess. And the idea of joining with Eclipse proper maybe, for some
> reason.

I agree. The Aptana idea has just popped up over and over again.

Is it the 'best' solution?? I have no idea :) There are just a few
of you who know enough to tinker with this stuff and make those
decisions. Aptana does sound nice - but again - if we were to build
something else - Aptana is still available as a plugin...

My survey is still online - last I checked there were around 300
entries. I'll let it run over the weekend and then publish a snapshot
of the stats...

If you haven't taken it yet - please take a few minutes and fill it
out:

http://www.blogcfc.com/soundings/survey.cfm?id=2B1EB770-19B9-E658-9D6046279001BCB9

Hopefully that will provide some insight as to what people are looking
for in a CFML IDE.

Jim

[denstar]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Jim Priest <pri...@niehs.nih.gov> wrote:
...

> I agree. The Aptana idea has just popped up over and over again.
>
> Is it the 'best' solution?? I have no idea :) There are just a few
> of you who know enough to tinker with this stuff and make those
> decisions. Aptana does sound nice - but again - if we were to build
> something else - Aptana is still available as a plugin...

Yes, and I didn't really mean to poo-poo the Aptana option.

I can lay it on a little think when I'm excited, I reckon, and seeing
these various projects, which I've watched sorta go from loose ends,
to tighter and tighter... well it's cool. It is almost looser at the
same time, which is weird. Eh.

I think I meant thick.

With Aptana, there's already a pay-for-more sorta model set up, which
I would think would be a good thing for people looking to make $$ by
adding functionality.

I personally think it's cooler to have totally open source stuff, and
work on it for $$.

You won't become a millionaire very fast that way I don't think tho,
so to speak.

And I would like to be a millionaire.

Like, an /easy/ millionaire.

None of this, years of hard work, and saving, and investing, and whatnot.

:]

CFE Rocks The Free World, and whatever's'clever, of course.

-denny