Livescribe pen update

[John Hegarty]

Some interesting new features.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/livescribe-gets-pensive-unleashes-new-echo-smartpen/

jh

[Kate Murray]

Wow! The possibilities are endless for this as an educational tool! Thanks John!
Kate Murray.

Sent from my iPhone

Some interesting new features.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/livescribe-gets-pensive-unleashes-new-echo-smartpen/

jh

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "CESI-list" group.
To post to this group, send email to cesi...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
cesi-list-...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GB where all messages are archived and are publically available to non members of the list. Messages may also show up in search engines etc.
Visit the web site www.cesi.ie
Attempts to use the list for commercial purposes may result removal from the list.

[Adrienne Webb]

Hi John

I continue to love my pen!

Adrienne

[luke]

Thanks John.

This does look really cool. Is there any legal issues for students
recording lectures?

On Jul 19, 11:32 am, John Hegarty <jhega...@clongowes.net> wrote:
> Some interesting new features.
>

> http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/livescribe-gets-pensive-unleashes-...
>
> jh

[Stephen Howell]

Hi Luke,

There are two forms of recording here, written notes (that we usually encourage/beg/berate students to take) and spoken audio notes from the lecturer.

I'm not sure many students would/could purchase a pen for recording lectures, but the main issue (at 3rd level where I lecture) is getting permission from lecturer to audio or video record. Many will not allow either recording, or prefer to record their own versions for podcasts etc.

I suspect the main issue would be with sharing the recording, selling it or remixing it.

I think this will become a bigger issue in coming years.

Regards,

Stephen

>
> jh

[luke]

Hi Stephen,

Will this just lead to students recording lectures at 3rd level
without permission? It would make a huge difference to their study
before exams, being able to replay lectures. Hopefully 3rd level will
encourage all lectures to provide a podcasting service to their
students in the near future.

Great review of the pen in PC Pro magazine today:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/peripherals/359821/livescribe-echo-smartpen


Luke

On Jul 28, 11:00 am, Stephen Howell <stephen.r.how...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Luke,
>
> There are two forms of recording here, written notes (that we usually
> encourage/beg/berate students to take) and spoken audio notes from the
> lecturer.
>
> I'm not sure many students would/could purchase a pen for recording
> lectures, but the main issue (at 3rd level where I lecture) is getting
> permission from lecturer to audio or video record. Many will not allow
> either recording, or prefer to record their own versions for podcasts etc.
>
> I suspect the main issue would be with sharing the recording, selling it or
> remixing it.
> I think this will become a bigger issue in coming years.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen
>

> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 2:13 PM, luke <lukemcur...@edware.ie> wrote:
> > Thanks John.
>
> > This does look really cool. Is there any legal issues for students
> > recording lectures?
>
> > On Jul 19, 11:32 am, John Hegarty <jhega...@clongowes.net> wrote:
> > > Some interesting new features.
>
> > >http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/livescribe-gets-pensive-unleashes-...
>
> > > jh
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "CESI-list" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cesi...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > cesi-list-...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GBwhere all messages are

[John Hegarty]

I dare say there are but at second level I see this more as a tool for
teachers where they can prepare high quality worked examples that can
be loaded up online to something like Moodle and then replayed/reused
by students outside of class time.

We did have a discussion in my school about a student receiving
learning support that had been advised to audio record classes for
later playback and I know some teachers were very uncomfortable with
the notion. Leaving aside any legal issues I think I would be
uncomfortable with this as well.

On a different note I'm a bit disappointed that Livescribe still
aren't allowing us to export pencasts in flash format so we can do
what we want with them. If you want to put a pencast on Moodle you
still have to upload it to Livescribe and then embed it into Moodle
from their site.

jh

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "CESI-list" group.
> To post to this group, send email to cesi...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> cesi-list-...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at

> http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GB where all messages are archived and are publically available to non members of the list. Messages may also show up in search engines etc.

[Stephen Howell]

Hi Luke,

Well, to be cynical, some lecturers say they would be overjoyed that a student wanted to record them, because it would mean that they might take something in. Others have said to me that it leads to the student being more likely to ignore the lecture because 'they have it recorded, they'll listen to it later', but then they never do.

When I was an undergrad, the most important thing in the run up to the exam was having a 'full set of notes'. Unfortunately, I and many of my classmates used these as a comfort blanket, we didn't actually study them until the month/week/night/morning before the exam if we had them. If we didn't have them, we scrambled around having to beg, borrow and photocopy masses of pages until we had a full set. Then we relaxed, because we had a 'full set of notes' and perhaps we assumed they would seep into our brains through osmosis because we certainly never read the blooming things. Until the exam loomed over us of course.

It's like getting a full set of printed notes (which were sold in the shop in DCU for various courses when I was an undergrad). 

You were supposed to:

a) read the notes for the next lecture beforehand

b) annotate the notes with the lecturer's comments

c) review the notes the evening after the lecture

d) study them periodically in the run up to the exam 

Instead, for a small fee at the start of the start of the semester, you could feel that you had a 'full set of notes' and then not bother going to any of the lectures, and stay in the lab learning how to program/play games!

Podcasts and video recordings of lectures would only increase this problem. They sound cool, and for the good students (who don't actually need the extra support) they are slightly useful, as they can replay a lecture they probably were already at. For the weak student, they are a comfort blanket, they know the resource is there, but they never get round to watching/listening it. Then the night before the exam, they realise that they can't watch 22 hours of lectures and listen to 22 hours of supplementary podcasts and read all the printed notes, so they swat as best they can, but it's hard to scan a video/audio file for the important info like you can with printed notes.

Now, I know many of this list will say that they went to college/university and they studied properly and read their notes and would like to watch/listen to recordings, but I suspect they were very good, hard working students. I wasn't a hard working student, I'd study furiously before the exam (because I found those hard), and my practical work was excellent (because I found that easy) but I suspect many students, in fact most students, are a little more like me.

In summary, even if you gave every student a livescribe pen and told them to record what they liked, most would leave the pens at home or record masses of stuff that would never be listened to.

Instead, the pens should be given to every teacher and lecturer in Ireland. They should be encouraged to record the most tricky aspects of each course or the aspects that give their particular students issues. This would become an exceptional resource, which could be reused over the years, and perhaps shared amongst schools. As the recordings would be targeted by the teaching professional, the student would not have to review the entire lecture to find the points they have trouble with, simply watch the short recording. In effect, the pens are perfect for tutorials, less useful for lectures.

The big exception to all this is the need to support disadvantaged learners. I know very little about this area, but I would be willing to support them with full lecture recordings if it would help.

Finally, students thank me every year for providing them with PDF notes, podcasts, screencasts, livescribe pencasts and so on. This year they regaled me with tales of an unnamed lecturer (not from the Computing Dept.), who refused to give any printed or electronic notes on principle (as is their right), instead demanding students write everything down. The students said that they tried, but the speed of slide changes became so much that no one could keep up. So when the lecturer's back was turned, they would photograph the slides with their camera phones, compile them and share them after class. They felt this was warranted as the lecturer refused to give out slides of any type. When everyone has a 5 to 8 megapixel camcorder and camera and voice recorder in their pocket, this will become a more problematic area.

Regards,

Stephen

http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GB where all messages are archived and are publically available to non members of the list. Messages may also show up in search engines etc.

[Stephen Howell]

On a different note I'm a bit disappointed that Livescribe still
aren't allowing us to export pencasts in flash format so we can do
what we want with them. If you want to put a pencast on Moodle you
still have to upload it to Livescribe and then embed it into Moodle
from their site.

jh

Yes, this is a shame, and ultimately I suspect this is why the Livescribe pens will fail in the market. The attitude seems to be 'If you want to share a pencast with some students but not the whole world, tough'. I assume you have to go through the Livescribe hosting so they can sell ads, but I have adblock (and every PC in the college has it too) so I don't know if there are any ads on the site. Perhaps they will put them in before the pencasts shows :)

Of the 8 Livescribe pens we have now purchased for staff trialling, inability to locally export pencasts is the number one complaint. Number two is the fact that pencasts uploads usually fail.

Until they change this insane policy they are crippling a potentially wonderful tool.

Regards,

Stephen

[Gavin McCullagh]

Hi,

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010, Stephen Howell wrote:

> > On a different note I'm a bit disappointed that Livescribe still
> > aren't allowing us to export pencasts in flash format so we can do
> > what we want with them. If you want to put a pencast on Moodle you
> > still have to upload it to Livescribe and then embed it into Moodle
> > from their site.
> >

> Yes, this is a shame, and ultimately I suspect this is why the Livescribe
> pens will fail in the market.

I agree with you both, but is there any evidence yet of a functioning
market? Has anyone seen an alternative product? Or are we stuck in a
patent hole for the next twenty years?

Gavin

[luke]

Hi Stephen,

I remember a great English teacher of mine who recorded onto tape a
whole series of lectures on poetry for the Leaving Cert, every poem
explained in great detail but with an aspect of drama to it too, it
was fantastic. You'd listen to it in your walkman in your spare time
and it really worked. He was way ahead of his time.

Is it really of concern to the lecture if students decided not to use
their material, or if they don't pay attention (lectures aren't
compulsory to attend). The lecture should teach for the interested
students, who would use the podcasts, video recording to greater
enhance their learning experience, and not worry about the
uninterested students.

Anyway I think I'm getting off point from the original post by John,
the pen does look like a great piece of gear. I would love to see it
used by maths teachers to explain those difficult problems in Leaving
Cert maths, they could work out the problem and talk through it. The
student could then see it happening on the screen and with voice all
explained.

Luke

On Jul 29, 8:27 am, Stephen Howell <stephen.r.how...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Luke,
>

> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 12:25 PM, luke <lukemcur...@edware.ie> wrote:
> > Hi Stephen,
>
> > Will this just lead to students recording lectures at 3rd level
> > without permission? It would make a huge difference to their study
> > before exams, being able to replay lectures. Hopefully 3rd level will
> > encourage all lectures to provide a podcasting service to their
> > students in the near future.
>
> > Great review of the pen in PC Pro magazine today:

> >http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/peripherals/359821/livescribe-echo-sma...

> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GBwhereall messages are

[Noel Cunningham]

(i) Why would lecturers/teachers be reluctant to have their classes recorded in this way - is it that we would feel too self-conscious / open ourselves up to public scrutiny (criticism)?

 

(ii) I would love to use this but my handwriting is terrible - any advice?

 

(iii) Like Stephen, I also wasn't a very good student (is that why we're all teaching now?) but was a very slow handwriter, so certainly would have availed of the opportunity to have the notes in front of me during a lecture. As it was I had very little opportunity to take in what was happening in the lecture because I was so busy writing. I still see teachers today getting their students to take down reams of 'notes' - I would question it's pedagogical value. I can think of two reasons offhand why teachers engage in this - one valid, one not. It keeps an otherwise unruly class busy - might not be appreciated by an inspector but I would have no problem with it that context.

The other reason - "because that's the way we learnt in school and I've never seen any other way".

 

But I digress.

 

Noel

http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GB where all messages are archived and are publically available to non members of the list. Messages may also show up in search engines etc.

Visit the web site www.cesi.ie

[Ger Sharpe]

Just wondering do people realise you can now email the pencasts to
students. Think it is part of the new desktop update. They still need
to view it through the awful livescribe desktop but its a start in the
right direction regarding having complete control over your own work.


Ger

On Jul 28, 1:40 pm, John Hegarty <jhega...@clongowes.net> wrote:
> I dare say there are but at second level I see this more as a tool for
> teachers where they can prepare high quality worked examples that can
> be loaded up online to something like Moodle and then replayed/reused
> by students outside of class time.
>
> We did have a discussion in my school about a student receiving
> learning support that had been advised to audio record classes for
> later playback and I know some teachers were very uncomfortable with
> the notion. Leaving aside any legal issues I think I would be
> uncomfortable with this as well.
>
> On a different note I'm a bit disappointed that Livescribe still
> aren't allowing us to export pencasts in flash format so we can do
> what we want with them. If you want to put a pencast on Moodle you
> still have to upload it to Livescribe and then embed it into Moodle
> from their site.
>
> jh
>

> On 27 Jul 2010, at 14:13, luke <lukemcur...@edware.ie> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks John.
>
> > This does look really cool. Is there any legal issues for students
> > recording lectures?
>
> > On Jul 19, 11:32 am, John Hegarty <jhega...@clongowes.net> wrote:
> >> Some interesting new features.
>
> >>http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/livescribe-gets-pensive-unleashes-...
>
> >> jh
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "CESI-list" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cesi...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > cesi-list-...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GBwhere all messages are archived and are publically available to non members of the list. Messages may also show up in search engines etc.

[Stephen Howell]

Hi Luke,

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 9:46 AM, luke <lukem...@edware.ie> wrote:

Hi Stephen,

I remember a great English teacher of mine who recorded onto tape a
whole series of lectures on poetry for the Leaving Cert, every poem
explained in great detail but with an aspect of drama to it too, it
was fantastic. You'd listen to it in your walkman in your spare time
and it really worked. He was way ahead of his time.

Well, this is my point exactly, here the teacher was the content producer and controller.

I suspect he made those recordings in a quiet room after hours or at home so the audio was not disturbed by noisy students.

 

Imagine if instead he gave recorders to all the students and told them to record him during class.

The resulting recordings would not be as useful as the teacher produced ones.

 

Is it really of concern to the lecture if students decided not to use
their material, or if they don't pay attention (lectures aren't
compulsory to attend). The lecture should teach for the interested
students, who would use the podcasts, video recording to greater
enhance their learning experience, and not worry about the
uninterested students.

Yes, but we can't 'not worry' about the uninterested students sadly.

I produce extra material for everyone, but I know the good students don't need it.

The weak ones won't use it. So why did I bother?

 

Anyway I think I'm getting off point from the original post by John,
the pen does look like a great piece of gear. I would love to see it
used by maths teachers to explain those difficult problems in Leaving
Cert maths, they could work out the problem and talk through it. The
student could then see it happening on the screen and with voice all
explained.

Well, I have a few of them (the older ones), they are great. Call in to me in Tallaght and I'll give you a demo.

Regards,

Stephen 

 

http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GB where all messages are archived and are publically available to non members of the list. Messages may also show up in search engines etc.

Visit the web site www.cesi.ie

[Stephen Howell]

Hi Noel,

Good questions, let me try to answer them:

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Noel Cunningham <cunning...@gmail.com> wrote:

(i) Why would lecturers/teachers be reluctant to have their classes recorded in this way - is it that we would feel too self-conscious / open ourselves up to public scrutiny (criticism)?

I haven't done a survey, but speaking to lecturers from a number of colleges during the pencast project I was running, the comments could be boiled down to the following:

a) "If my lectures are going to recorded in any way, I want to be both the producer of the content and the owner of the resulting material - e.g. my camera or audio recorder, and I keep the files, I'll decide to edit them and post them on Moodle if I wish, with no obligation to do so."

b) Recording lectures isn't in my contract / is against my union rules

c) I don't like the way I look/sound on camera or I'm shy

d) If students record me they will remix and edit the files to make me sound foolish or deranged

 

e) If the college records me they will replace me with a video player and TV next year

My solution to some of these worries was to propose the video and audio not be recorded of the class in situ, but the lecturer could create a pencast in a quiet environment where they control the material - in effect create tutorials of specific issues. Some lecturers were happy to do this, others were not interested.

 

 

(ii) I would love to use this but my handwriting is terrible - any advice?

Everyone says this, but unless it's truly awful, it's probably fine for a short lesson.

Diagrams are easier to draw with a pen than with a mouse (I find) and these could be part of the tutorial.

Coupled with the audio track of you explaining your workings, most students will follow the handwriting.

Call into me in Tallaght and I'll give you a go of one, we'll see how bad the handwriting is! 

 

(iii) Like Stephen, I also wasn't a very good student (is that why we're all teaching now?) but was a very slow handwriter, so certainly would have availed of the opportunity to have the notes in front of me during a lecture. As it was I had very little opportunity to take in what was happening in the lecture because I was so busy writing. I still see teachers today getting their students to take down reams of 'notes' - I would question it's pedagogical value. I can think of two reasons offhand why teachers engage in this - one valid, one not. It keeps an otherwise unruly class busy - might not be appreciated by an inspector but I would have no problem with it that context.

The other reason - "because that's the way we learnt in school and I've never seen any other way".

Well, I'm third level, so the unruly class isn't an issue, but some lecturers make students take notes and some don't. I leave it up to the student to take supplementary notes and some do and some don't. My lectures are all made available in text form on Moodle anyway.

 Regards,

Stephen

[Stephen Howell]

Thanks Ger, I didn't realise that, but sadly it wouldn't help my particular problem. 

My students can't install that (truly awful) software on their lab machines, and not

 all of them have laptops or desktops at home. 

I need an 'all or nothing' solution, and posting the flash on Moodle would be ideal. 

Regards,

Stephen

http://groups.google.com/group/cesi-list?hl=en-GB where all messages are archived and are publically available to non members of the list. Messages may also show up in search engines etc.

[luke]

Thanks for the offer Stephen,

Where is the best (cheapest) place in Ireland to purchase the
Livescribe pen?


Thanks, Luke

On Jul 30, 9:46 am, Stephen Howell <stephen.r.how...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Luke,
>

> ...
>
> read more »