Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
> Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source > CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this > path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
The one we developed is closed source. I asked them to open it, but havent heard back. There was an initiative towards that from Carlos Ble.
On 8/31/07, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source > CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this > path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
Ironic... I started tinkering with some stuff this week. I was not planning on using AR or making it open source but I would certainly be interested. Adam
On Aug 31, 11:41 am, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source > CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this > path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
I've been developing a CMS using webforms and planned to make it opensource when finished (all basic functionality is done) but with my interest in monorail I think it might be a good idea too. I'd be willing to contribute.
-Vince
On 8/31/07, Adam Tybor <adam.ty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ironic... I started tinkering with some stuff this week. I was not > planning on using AR or making it open source but I would certainly be > interested. > Adam
> On Aug 31, 11:41 am, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote: > > Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source > > CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this > > path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
Wow. Seems like this could be a popular ongoing topic. My current plan was to develop something similar to what the http://www.djangoproject.com/ has already done. I was going to build a system with tightly integrated permission / role / user system and to build a sort of "production ready scaffolding" that included more that the normal scaffolding that comes in monorail. The scaffolding would include things like.
List searching (maybe ajax) List sorting (maybe ajax) Variables to determine which properties were shown for search, list columns, and forms elements. Ordering of columns in lists Ordering of form elements More robust form elements
Once completed, a developer could create whatever schema is needed for a project, build some model and empty controller classes and be on their way to developing a completely custom front end. Let me know what you guys think of this idea and I am interested in hearing everyone elses.
James
On Aug 31, 1:09 pm, "Vince McMullin" <vam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been developing a CMS using webforms and planned to make it > opensource when finished (all basic functionality is done) but with my > interest in monorail I think it might be a good idea too. I'd be > willing to contribute.
> -Vince
> On 8/31/07, Adam Tybor <adam.ty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ironic... I started tinkering with some stuff this week. I was not > > planning on using AR or making it open source but I would certainly be > > interested. > > Adam
> > On Aug 31, 11:41 am, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote: > > > Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source > > > CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this > > > path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
> Wow. Seems like this could be a popular ongoing topic. My current plan > was to develop something similar to what the http://www.djangoproject.com/ > has already done. I was going to build a system with tightly > integrated permission / role / user system and to build a sort of > "production ready scaffolding" that included more that the normal > scaffolding that comes in monorail. The scaffolding would include > things like.
> List searching (maybe ajax) > List sorting (maybe ajax) > Variables to determine which properties were shown for search, list > columns, and forms elements. > Ordering of columns in lists > Ordering of form elements > More robust form elements
> Once completed, a developer could create whatever schema is needed for > a project, build some model and empty controller classes and be on > their way to developing a completely custom front end. Let me know > what you guys think of this idea and I am interested in hearing > everyone elses.
> James
> On Aug 31, 1:09 pm, "Vince McMullin" <vam...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I've been developing a CMS using webforms and planned to make it > > opensource when finished (all basic functionality is done) but with my > > interest in monorail I think it might be a good idea too. I'd be > > willing to contribute.
> > -Vince
> > On 8/31/07, Adam Tybor <adam.ty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Ironic... I started tinkering with some stuff this week. I was not > > > planning on using AR or making it open source but I would certainly be > > > interested. > > > Adam
> > > On Aug 31, 11:41 am, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote: > > > > Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source > > > > CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this > > > > path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
My idea was more or less to build a web portal which would certainly help increase average developer interest if it were opensource and given to the community that way.
On 8/31/07, Hamilton Verissimo <hamm...@castlestronghold.com> wrote:
> While there might be some overlap, this is not a CMS, is it? You > should check Plone for inspiration (that what I did).
> On 8/31/07, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote:
> > Wow. Seems like this could be a popular ongoing topic. My current plan > > was to develop something similar to what the http://www.djangoproject.com/ > > has already done. I was going to build a system with tightly > > integrated permission / role / user system and to build a sort of > > "production ready scaffolding" that included more that the normal > > scaffolding that comes in monorail. The scaffolding would include > > things like.
> > List searching (maybe ajax) > > List sorting (maybe ajax) > > Variables to determine which properties were shown for search, list > > columns, and forms elements. > > Ordering of columns in lists > > Ordering of form elements > > More robust form elements
> > Once completed, a developer could create whatever schema is needed for > > a project, build some model and empty controller classes and be on > > their way to developing a completely custom front end. Let me know > > what you guys think of this idea and I am interested in hearing > > everyone elses.
> > James
> > On Aug 31, 1:09 pm, "Vince McMullin" <vam...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I've been developing a CMS using webforms and planned to make it > > > opensource when finished (all basic functionality is done) but with my > > > interest in monorail I think it might be a good idea too. I'd be > > > willing to contribute.
> > > -Vince
> > > On 8/31/07, Adam Tybor <adam.ty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Ironic... I started tinkering with some stuff this week. I was not > > > > planning on using AR or making it open source but I would certainly be > > > > interested. > > > > Adam
> > > > On Aug 31, 11:41 am, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source > > > > > CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this > > > > > path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
I have already built a CMS that is tightly coupled to K-12 education. It is not open source as it is only used at my workplace. It launched at the beginning of August. You can find it at http://www.flaglerschools.com/
It has School/Department/Teacher "WebPages" that the user can login and maintain themselves. Upcoming features are Blogs/Podcasts. It took me about 6 months total, on and off to develop it by myself.
I would be interested in contributing to any open source project. There may be some code I have already developed that could be used.
The cms I developed uses TinyMCE for the page editor. Three different levels of roles. Admin, Contributor and Teacher. The authorization is done against Active Directory and roles are held in AD as well. At the time of login, the roles in the db are updated so AD only has to be queried at login. At the moment there is about 150 teachers and 20 staff using the portal.
I am in the process now of making it more flexible and more administrator features as I have not developed those yet. I didn't implement any sort of module plugin framework although in hindsight I should have but I didnt have enough time. It uses NHhibernate/Windsor/ MonoRail with NVelocity for the view engine. I attempted to embrace DDD techniques although this was my first shot so parts of the domain model are a little anemic althought it is very easy to understand/ extend.
Let me know if you want more information
Sean
On Aug 31, 4:39 pm, "Vince McMullin" <vam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My idea was more or less to build a web portal which would certainly > help increase average developer interest if it were opensource and > given to the community that way.
> On 8/31/07, Hamilton Verissimo <hamm...@castlestronghold.com> wrote:
> > While there might be some overlap, this is not a CMS, is it? You > > should check Plone for inspiration (that what I did).
> > On 8/31/07, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote:
> > > Wow. Seems like this could be a popular ongoing topic. My current plan > > > was to develop something similar to what thehttp://www.djangoproject.com/ > > > has already done. I was going to build a system with tightly > > > integrated permission / role / user system and to build a sort of > > > "production ready scaffolding" that included more that the normal > > > scaffolding that comes in monorail. The scaffolding would include > > > things like.
> > > List searching (maybe ajax) > > > List sorting (maybe ajax) > > > Variables to determine which properties were shown for search, list > > > columns, and forms elements. > > > Ordering of columns in lists > > > Ordering of form elements > > > More robust form elements
> > > Once completed, a developer could create whatever schema is needed for > > > a project, build some model and empty controller classes and be on > > > their way to developing a completely custom front end. Let me know > > > what you guys think of this idea and I am interested in hearing > > > everyone elses.
> > > James
> > > On Aug 31, 1:09 pm, "Vince McMullin" <vam...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I've been developing a CMS using webforms and planned to make it > > > > opensource when finished (all basic functionality is done) but with my > > > > interest in monorail I think it might be a good idea too. I'd be > > > > willing to contribute.
> > > > -Vince
> > > > On 8/31/07, Adam Tybor <adam.ty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Ironic... I started tinkering with some stuff this week. I was not > > > > > planning on using AR or making it open source but I would certainly be > > > > > interested. > > > > > Adam
> > > > > On Aug 31, 11:41 am, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know of any ongoing development to build an open source > > > > > > CMS with Monorail and ActiveRecord. I am starting to head down this > > > > > > path on my own but I wanted to see if anyone has heard of anything.
I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client (http:// www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on easy content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we migrated a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), a flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around and insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product that the client can use effectively was better than a product with bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use correctly.
A cool CMS I evaluated was http://www.umbraco.org -- definitely worth looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
> I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client (http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on easy > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we migrated > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), a > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around and > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > correctly.
> A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org-- definitely worth > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
Hi, I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if the project is active or not. CastlePortal: https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. Ask the guys at shidix.com
> On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on easy > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we migrated > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), a > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around and > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > correctly.
> > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org-- definitely worth > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
We are developing a CMS, as a product and the first release date is 15.09, entirely based on Castle MR, but not Castle AR. The idea is very simple, as in most cms-es: 1. design the page 2. define what will be later editable 3. trough a form fill the data and render the whole thing obtaining a page
The genius about it, is that you can create/remove such fields while it is running without crashing it (that's why it doen't use a relational DB and AR), and still being incredible fast. We have shown clients, creating and chaging what they can edit in the meeting with them here, and they were a little shocked, accustomed to having atabase schema updates that need a lot of carefullness
It will be commercial, but the fee will be low: base for product about 1000 EURO - $1,300. We are looking for collaborators.
> Hi, > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if > the project is active or not. > CastlePortal: https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > > easy > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we migrated > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), a
> > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around and > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > correctly.
> > > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org-- definitely worth > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being launched on www.premierherbal.com (chinese site) I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how to classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content page controller which would do most shared view based information rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files available either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content use db), a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search support, and then a web shop.
I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I support idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some idea I might consider open that up.
And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. I have seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple blog like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have developed mine to be page content provider with some simple security, now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with something not so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with any major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent touched). Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if the > project is active or not. > CastlePortal:https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on easy > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we migrated > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), a > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around and > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > correctly.
> > > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org--definitely worth > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of castleportal was something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my opinion. Cheers
> I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being launched on > www.premierherbal.com (chinese site) > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how to > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content page > controller which would do most shared view based information > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files available > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content use db), > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > support, and then a web shop.
> I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I support > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some idea I > might consider open that up.
> And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. I have > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple blog > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple security, > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with something not > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with any > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent touched). > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if > the > > project is active or not. > > CastlePortal:https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > easy > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we > migrated > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), > a > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around > and > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > > correctly.
> > > > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org--definitely worth > > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
I think I am just not geek enough to like plone at all. I have indeed read about Zope a few years ago, and never think I would ever like it :) Its way too difficult to understand without getting in depth of the Zope world. The problem is even in user perspective you have to understand Zope Management Interface! I just checked thru the documentation to find something as simple as changing the logo for Plone. Nope. Never, I would never like it. Thats not I envision as a CMS user likes.
In my head what most users probably would like something like he could post an HTML post in a defined location with much freedom, and then developers like us customize the skin for them. I don't think Plone would be user customizable- to build a skin is very obviously a developer's job, so if thats the case, NVelocity/Brail is a decent DSL for this job. I guess thats why I never liked those full featured CMS.
I rememeber you did one before, I have indeed played a bit on your test site. While the layout looks ugly, I am more or less able to understand what you are trying to do. I don't know, in most cases I think I prefer to just customize the site with view scripts rather than clicking lots of add/remove button and being framed in a square like layout. Take dotNetNuke for example, its very 'container' oriented, I never think I would like such website, unless I am really in hurry. And if I am in hurry, maybe a Wiki is more suitable for me :)
My idea is- maybe just build a navigation structure with page content embedded, then try to enhance the editor a bit to make those more difficult part (e.g. adding view components) possible for layman (a dialog with a few parameters and clues on it?) but I did a quick test with fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you type it in source mode. I guess making a user friendly editor is really the hard part as it involves a lot of javascript. After that I really don't think other basic content storage and indexing work too complicated. (Oh well, when you add up searching there's a few thing to cater between the view and the real result HTML, but as long as all in DB, I guess they are searchable?)
It could sound messy here :P But I guess its because I am not someone being 'educated' to love those CMS framework. At least not for now.
On Sep 1, 7:18 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of castleportal was > something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. > However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that > point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my opinion. > Cheers
> > I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being launched on > >www.premierherbal.com(chinese site) > > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how to > > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content page > > controller which would do most shared view based information > > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files available > > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content use db), > > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > > support, and then a web shop.
> > I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I support > > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some idea I > > might consider open that up.
> > And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. I have > > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple blog > > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple security, > > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with something not > > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with any > > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent touched). > > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> > On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if > > the > > > project is active or not. > > > CastlePortal:https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > > easy > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we > > migrated > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), > > a > > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around > > and > > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > > > correctly.
> I think I am just not geek enough to like plone at all. I have indeed > read about Zope a few years ago, and never think I would ever like > it :) Its way too difficult to understand without getting in depth of > the Zope world. The problem is even in user perspective you have to > understand Zope Management Interface! I just checked thru the > documentation to find something as simple as changing the logo for > Plone. Nope. Never, I would never like it. Thats not I envision as a > CMS user likes.
> In my head what most users probably would like something like he could > post an HTML post in a defined location with much freedom, and then > developers like us customize the skin for them. I don't think Plone > would be user customizable- to build a skin is very obviously a > developer's job, so if thats the case, NVelocity/Brail is a decent DSL > for this job. I guess thats why I never liked those full featured CMS.
> I rememeber you did one before, I have indeed played a bit on your > test site. While the layout looks ugly, I am more or less able to > understand what you are trying to do. I don't know, in most cases I > think I prefer to just customize the site with view scripts rather > than clicking lots of add/remove button and being framed in a square > like layout. Take dotNetNuke for example, its very 'container' > oriented, I never think I would like such website, unless I am really > in hurry. And if I am in hurry, maybe a Wiki is more suitable for > me :)
> My idea is- maybe just build a navigation structure with page content > embedded, then try to enhance the editor a bit to make those more > difficult part (e.g. adding view components) possible for layman (a > dialog with a few parameters and clues on it?) but I did a quick test > with fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > type it in source mode. I guess making a user friendly editor is > really the hard part as it involves a lot of javascript. After that I > really don't think other basic content storage and indexing work too > complicated. (Oh well, when you add up searching there's a few thing > to cater between the view and the real result HTML, but as long as all > in DB, I guess they are searchable?)
> It could sound messy here :P But I guess its because I am not someone > being 'educated' to love those CMS framework. At least not for now.
> On Sep 1, 7:18 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of castleportal was > > something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. > > However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that > > point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my opinion. > > Cheers
> > > I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being launched on > > >www.premierherbal.com(chinesesite) > > > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how to > > > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content page > > > controller which would do most shared view based information > > > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files available > > > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content use db), > > > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > > > support, and then a web shop.
> > > I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I support > > > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > > > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some idea I > > > might consider open that up.
> > > And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. I have > > > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple blog > > > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > > > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > > > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple security, > > > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with something not > > > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with any > > > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent touched). > > > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> > > On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if > > > the > > > > project is active or not. > > > > CastlePortal:https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > > Good luck
> > > > 2007/9/1, Sean Chambers <dko...@gmail.com>:
> > > > > +1 to that. I also looked at umbraco when I first started to develop > > > > > my solution.
> > > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > > > easy > > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we > > > migrated > > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), > > > a > > > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around > > > and > > > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > > > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > > > > correctly.
> > > > > > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org--definitelyworth > > > > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
> We are developing a CMS, as a product and the first release date is 15.09, entirely based on Castle MR, but not Castle AR. > The idea is very simple, as in most cms-es: > 1. design the page > 2. define what will be later editable > 3. trough a form fill the data and render the whole thing obtaining a page
> The genius about it, is that you can create/remove such fields while it is > running without crashing it (that's why it doen't use a relational DB and > AR), and still being incredible > fast. We have shown clients, creating and chaging what they can edit in the meeting with them here, and they were a little shocked, accustomed
> to having atabase schema updates that need a lot of carefullness
> It will be commercial, but the fee will be low: base for product about > 1000 EURO - $1,300. We are looking for collaborators.
> On 9/1/07, Carlos Ble <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi, > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if > > the project is active or not. > > CastlePortal: https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > > > easy > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we > > > migrated > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), > > > a > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around > > > and > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product
> > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > > correctly.
> > > > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org-- definitely worth > > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
Hey guys. Great discussion. I would like to say that my intention with the project I am creating is not to build the most robust CMS ever created. I want to empower Monorail developers to be able to quickly (within a couple of hours) create a full back end (users, permission, roles, content and files) to manage data that is "production ready". I know that this idea would go along way to simplifing my life and if it can help me then I am sure that others will be able to benefit from the idea.
James
On Sep 1, 7:41 am, goodwill <william.yeung...@gmail.com> wrote:
> fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > type it in source mode. <- By the way, I mean any view directive like > #component, <% %>
> On Sep 1, 7:38 pm, goodwill <william.yeung...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think I am just not geek enough to like plone at all. I have indeed > > read about Zope a few years ago, and never think I would ever like > > it :) Its way too difficult to understand without getting in depth of > > the Zope world. The problem is even in user perspective you have to > > understand Zope Management Interface! I just checked thru the > > documentation to find something as simple as changing the logo for > > Plone. Nope. Never, I would never like it. Thats not I envision as a > > CMS user likes.
> > In my head what most users probably would like something like he could > > post an HTML post in a defined location with much freedom, and then > > developers like us customize the skin for them. I don't think Plone > > would be user customizable- to build a skin is very obviously a > > developer's job, so if thats the case, NVelocity/Brail is a decent DSL > > for this job. I guess thats why I never liked those full featured CMS.
> > I rememeber you did one before, I have indeed played a bit on your > > test site. While the layout looks ugly, I am more or less able to > > understand what you are trying to do. I don't know, in most cases I > > think I prefer to just customize the site with view scripts rather > > than clicking lots of add/remove button and being framed in a square > > like layout. Take dotNetNuke for example, its very 'container' > > oriented, I never think I would like such website, unless I am really > > in hurry. And if I am in hurry, maybe a Wiki is more suitable for > > me :)
> > My idea is- maybe just build a navigation structure with page content > > embedded, then try to enhance the editor a bit to make those more > > difficult part (e.g. adding view components) possible for layman (a > > dialog with a few parameters and clues on it?) but I did a quick test > > with fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > type it in source mode. I guess making a user friendly editor is > > really the hard part as it involves a lot of javascript. After that I > > really don't think other basic content storage and indexing work too > > complicated. (Oh well, when you add up searching there's a few thing > > to cater between the view and the real result HTML, but as long as all > > in DB, I guess they are searchable?)
> > It could sound messy here :P But I guess its because I am not someone > > being 'educated' to love those CMS framework. At least not for now.
> > > I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of castleportal was > > > something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. > > > However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that > > > point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my opinion. > > > Cheers
> > > > I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being launched on > > > >www.premierherbal.com(chinesesite) > > > > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how to > > > > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content page > > > > controller which would do most shared view based information > > > > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files available > > > > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content use db), > > > > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > > > > support, and then a web shop.
> > > > I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I support > > > > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > > > > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some idea I > > > > might consider open that up.
> > > > And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. I have > > > > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple blog > > > > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > > > > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > > > > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple security, > > > > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with something not > > > > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with any > > > > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent touched). > > > > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> > > > On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if > > > > the > > > > > project is active or not. > > > > > CastlePortal:https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > > > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > > > Good luck
> > > > > 2007/9/1, Sean Chambers <dko...@gmail.com>:
> > > > > > +1 to that. I also looked at umbraco when I first started to develop > > > > > > my solution.
> > > > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > > > > easy > > > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we > > > > migrated > > > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), > > > > a > > > > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around > > > > and > > > > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > > > > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > > > > > correctly.
> > > > > > > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org--definitelyworth > > > > > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
> > > > > > > - b- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
I cannot give too manydetails now, because I haven't decided what will I do with this in the future (sell it, open source it etc), but it is like this:
- a framework, as AR, to allow the dynamic creation of types, properties and relations, without the need of compilation or ALTER statements
1. Properties
Item product = new Item("Product"); product["Name"]="CMS20"; product.Save();
Item product2 = new Item("Product"); product2["Name"]="Taia"; product2["Category"]="Software innovation"; product2.Save();
Item[] allSoftware = Item.Query("TYPE='Product' AND Category='Software innovation'");
Assert.AreEqual(1,allSoftware.Length );
2. Relationships
2.1 establishing
Item category = new Item("Category"); category["Name"]="Cars"; category.Save();
Item product = new Item("Product"); product["Name"]="BMW"; product.AddRelated("Categories",category); // (a tostring()) product.Save ();
2.2 obtaining related items
product.FindRelated ("Categories")
I will keep you posted of how this evolves.
Thanks, Dan
On 9/1/07, Ayende Rahien <aye...@ayende.com> wrote:
> On 9/1/07, Dan Bunea <dan.bu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > We are developing a CMS, as a product and the first release date is > > 15.09, entirely based on Castle MR, but not Castle AR. The idea is very > > simple, as in most cms-es: > > 1. design the page > > 2. define what will be later editable > > 3. trough a form fill the data and render the whole thing obtaining a > > page
> > The genius about it, is that you can create/remove such fields while it > > is running without crashing it (that's why it doen't use a relational DB and > > AR), and still being incredible > > fast. We have shown clients, creating and chaging what they can edit in the meeting with them here, and they were a little shocked, accustomed
> > to having atabase schema updates that need a lot of carefullness
> > It will be commercial, but the fee will be low: base for product about > > 1000 EURO - $1,300. We are looking for collaborators.
> > On 9/1/07, Carlos Ble <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi, > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know > > > if the project is active or not. > > > CastlePortal: https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > Good luck
> > > 2007/9/1, Sean Chambers < dko...@gmail.com >:
> > > > +1 to that. I also looked at umbraco when I first started to develop
> > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > > http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > > > > easy > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I
> > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very > > > > easy > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some > > > > very > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we > > > > migrated > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken > > > > links), a > > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around > > > > and > > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a > > > > product > > > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to > > > > use > > > > > correctly.
> > > > > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org-- definitely > > > > worth > > > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a > > > > CMS.
"Production ready", I wonder if its going to be like that. The fact is these template things experience varies a lot. The best tool you can get is develop one for a specific project, the refactor it back to a framework, thats how Ruby on Rails comes off. I think its not going to be anytime soon for you to get something really good enough for production. Microsoft never provides such thing (examples are Enterprise Application Block, I don't think using it speed up your deployment time, but indeed slow down usually).
MonoRail provides a good enough framework for you to incrementally build what you need. I guess the missing piece is a generator that really creates something close enough for building your work on top of it. There are something scattered around for your needs to be fulfilled, but a couple hours make something production ready, I don't have much hope about it. Try to create your extension with Plone and you will know its not a few hours either. To study the CMS itself and then adopt to it probably takes a week, if its something like Plone's scale (lets put aside I hate it a lot ：p) The fact is you probably end up with something productional a few hours if you start with plain MR and dont go too far about the security, and then build that up incrementally. A CMS I guess is going to help when you need things to really scale in more enterprise like situation for content management, but I don't think its going to fit your intention.
On Sep 1, 8:21 pm, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote:
> Hey guys. Great discussion. I would like to say that my intention with > the project I am creating is not to build the most robust CMS ever > created. I want to empower Monorail developers to be able to quickly > (within a couple of hours) create a full back end (users, permission, > roles, content and files) to manage data that is "production ready". I > know that this idea would go along way to simplifing my life and if it > can help me then I am sure that others will be able to benefit from > the idea.
> James
> On Sep 1, 7:41 am, goodwill <william.yeung...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > type it in source mode. <- By the way, I mean any view directive like > > #component, <% %>
> > On Sep 1, 7:38 pm, goodwill <william.yeung...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think I am just not geek enough to like plone at all. I have indeed > > > read about Zope a few years ago, and never think I would ever like > > > it :) Its way too difficult to understand without getting in depth of > > > the Zope world. The problem is even in user perspective you have to > > > understand Zope Management Interface! I just checked thru the > > > documentation to find something as simple as changing the logo for > > > Plone. Nope. Never, I would never like it. Thats not I envision as a > > > CMS user likes.
> > > In my head what most users probably would like something like he could > > > post an HTML post in a defined location with much freedom, and then > > > developers like us customize the skin for them. I don't think Plone > > > would be user customizable- to build a skin is very obviously a > > > developer's job, so if thats the case, NVelocity/Brail is a decent DSL > > > for this job. I guess thats why I never liked those full featured CMS.
> > > I rememeber you did one before, I have indeed played a bit on your > > > test site. While the layout looks ugly, I am more or less able to > > > understand what you are trying to do. I don't know, in most cases I > > > think I prefer to just customize the site with view scripts rather > > > than clicking lots of add/remove button and being framed in a square > > > like layout. Take dotNetNuke for example, its very 'container' > > > oriented, I never think I would like such website, unless I am really > > > in hurry. And if I am in hurry, maybe a Wiki is more suitable for > > > me :)
> > > My idea is- maybe just build a navigation structure with page content > > > embedded, then try to enhance the editor a bit to make those more > > > difficult part (e.g. adding view components) possible for layman (a > > > dialog with a few parameters and clues on it?) but I did a quick test > > > with fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > > type it in source mode. I guess making a user friendly editor is > > > really the hard part as it involves a lot of javascript. After that I > > > really don't think other basic content storage and indexing work too > > > complicated. (Oh well, when you add up searching there's a few thing > > > to cater between the view and the real result HTML, but as long as all > > > in DB, I guess they are searchable?)
> > > It could sound messy here :P But I guess its because I am not someone > > > being 'educated' to love those CMS framework. At least not for now.
> > > > I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of castleportal was > > > > something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. > > > > However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that > > > > point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my opinion. > > > > Cheers
> > > > > I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being launched on > > > > >www.premierherbal.com(chinesesite) > > > > > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how to > > > > > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content page > > > > > controller which would do most shared view based information > > > > > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files available > > > > > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content use db), > > > > > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > > > > > support, and then a web shop.
> > > > > I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I support > > > > > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > > > > > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some idea I > > > > > might consider open that up.
> > > > > And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. I have > > > > > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple blog > > > > > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > > > > > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > > > > > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple security, > > > > > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with something not > > > > > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with any > > > > > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent touched). > > > > > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> > > > > On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if > > > > > the > > > > > > project is active or not. > > > > > > CastlePortal:https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > > > > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > > > > Good luck
> > > > > > 2007/9/1, Sean Chambers <dko...@gmail.com>:
> > > > > > > +1 to that. I also looked at umbraco when I first started to develop > > > > > > > my solution.
> > > > > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > > > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > > > > > easy > > > > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > > > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we > > > > > migrated > > > > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), > > > > > a > > > > > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around > > > > > and > > > > > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > > > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > > > > > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > > > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > > > > > > correctly.
> > > > > > > > A cool CMS I evaluated washttp://www.umbraco.org--definitelyworth > > > > > > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on building a CMS.
> > > > > > > > - b- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of castleportal was > something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. > However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that > point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my opinion. > Cheers
> > I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being launched on > >www.premierherbal.com(chinese site) > > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how to > > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content page > > controller which would do most shared view based information > > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files available > > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content use db), > > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > > support, and then a web shop.
> > I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I support > > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some idea I > > might consider open that up.
> > And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. I have > > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple blog > > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple security, > > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with something not > > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with any > > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent touched). > > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> > On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I don't know if > > the > > > project is active or not. > > > CastlePortal:https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of development. > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a focus on > > easy > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. Personally, I > > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be very easy > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them something > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we decided to > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were some very > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection (we > > migrated > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit broken links), > > a > > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move sections around > > and > > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), integrated > > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on a product > > > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a product with > > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out how to use > > > > > correctly.
Hei goodwill, it would be nice if you gather all your reflections on this discussion thread and put them in a post in your blog along with some other commets. I definitively would link it from my blog.
Regarding the MonoRail generator, I have to say that Marc-Andre's generator was very nice to me.
> "Production ready", I wonder if its going to be like that. The fact is > these template things experience varies a lot. The best tool you can > get is develop one for a specific project, the refactor it back to a > framework, thats how Ruby on Rails comes off. I think its not going to > be anytime soon for you to get something really good enough for > production. Microsoft never provides such thing (examples are > Enterprise Application Block, I don't think using it speed up your > deployment time, but indeed slow down usually).
> MonoRail provides a good enough framework for you to incrementally > build what you need. I guess the missing piece is a generator that > really creates something close enough for building your work on top of > it. There are something scattered around for your needs to be > fulfilled, but a couple hours make something production ready, I don't > have much hope about it. Try to create your extension with Plone and > you will know its not a few hours either. To study the CMS itself and > then adopt to it probably takes a week, if its something like Plone's > scale (lets put aside I hate it a lot ：p) The fact is you probably end > up with something productional a few hours if you start with plain MR > and dont go too far about the security, and then build that up > incrementally. A CMS I guess is going to help when you need things to > really scale in more enterprise like situation for content management, > but I don't think its going to fit your intention.
> On Sep 1, 8:21 pm, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote: > > Hey guys. Great discussion. I would like to say that my intention with > > the project I am creating is not to build the most robust CMS ever > > created. I want to empower Monorail developers to be able to quickly > > (within a couple of hours) create a full back end (users, permission, > > roles, content and files) to manage data that is "production ready". I > > know that this idea would go along way to simplifing my life and if it > > can help me then I am sure that others will be able to benefit from > > the idea.
> > James
> > On Sep 1, 7:41 am, goodwill <william.yeung...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > > type it in source mode. <- By the way, I mean any view directive like > > > #component, <% %>
> > > > I think I am just not geek enough to like plone at all. I have > indeed > > > > read about Zope a few years ago, and never think I would ever like > > > > it :) Its way too difficult to understand without getting in depth > of > > > > the Zope world. The problem is even in user perspective you have to > > > > understand Zope Management Interface! I just checked thru the > > > > documentation to find something as simple as changing the logo for > > > > Plone. Nope. Never, I would never like it. Thats not I envision as a > > > > CMS user likes.
> > > > In my head what most users probably would like something like he > could > > > > post an HTML post in a defined location with much freedom, and then > > > > developers like us customize the skin for them. I don't think Plone > > > > would be user customizable- to build a skin is very obviously a > > > > developer's job, so if thats the case, NVelocity/Brail is a decent > DSL > > > > for this job. I guess thats why I never liked those full featured > CMS.
> > > > I rememeber you did one before, I have indeed played a bit on your > > > > test site. While the layout looks ugly, I am more or less able to > > > > understand what you are trying to do. I don't know, in most cases I > > > > think I prefer to just customize the site with view scripts rather > > > > than clicking lots of add/remove button and being framed in a square > > > > like layout. Take dotNetNuke for example, its very 'container' > > > > oriented, I never think I would like such website, unless I am > really > > > > in hurry. And if I am in hurry, maybe a Wiki is more suitable for > > > > me :)
> > > > My idea is- maybe just build a navigation structure with page > content > > > > embedded, then try to enhance the editor a bit to make those more > > > > difficult part (e.g. adding view components) possible for layman (a > > > > dialog with a few parameters and clues on it?) but I did a quick > test > > > > with fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > > > type it in source mode. I guess making a user friendly editor is > > > > really the hard part as it involves a lot of javascript. After that > I > > > > really don't think other basic content storage and indexing work too > > > > complicated. (Oh well, when you add up searching there's a few thing > > > > to cater between the view and the real result HTML, but as long as > all > > > > in DB, I guess they are searchable?)
> > > > It could sound messy here :P But I guess its because I am not > someone > > > > being 'educated' to love those CMS framework. At least not for now.
> > > > > I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of > castleportal was > > > > > something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. > > > > > However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that > > > > > point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my > opinion. > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being > launched on > > > > > >www.premierherbal.com(chinesesite) > > > > > > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how > to > > > > > > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content > page > > > > > > controller which would do most shared view based information > > > > > > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files > available > > > > > > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content > use db), > > > > > > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > > > > > > support, and then a web shop.
> > > > > > I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I > support > > > > > > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > > > > > > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some > idea I > > > > > > might consider open that up.
> > > > > > And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. > I have > > > > > > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple > blog > > > > > > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > > > > > > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > > > > > > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple > security, > > > > > > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with > something not > > > > > > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with > any > > > > > > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent > touched). > > > > > > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> > > > > > On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I > don't know if > > > > > > the > > > > > > > project is active or not. > > > > > > > CastlePortal: > https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > > > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of > development. > > > > > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > > > > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a > focus on > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. > Personally, I > > > > > > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be > very easy > > > > > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them > something > > > > > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we > decided to > > > > > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were > some very > > > > > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection > (we > > > > > > migrated > > > > > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit > broken links), > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move > sections around > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), > integrated > > > > > > > > > file management (with security)... In the end, focusing on > a product > > > > > > > > > that the client can use effectively was better than a > product with > > > > > > > > > bells and whistles that the client would never figure out > how to use > > > > > > > > > correctly.
> > > > > > > > > A cool CMS I evaluated > washttp://www.umbraco.org--definitelyworth > > > > > > > > > looking at to steal ideas from if you're planning on > building a CMS.
> > > > > > > > > - b- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
:) I would try, it takes some time though- I guess I would write something about what I think an CMS should do and what I dont like about existing CMS, that probably would clarifies a bit.
On Sep 1, 10:09 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hei goodwill, it would be nice if you gather all your reflections on this > discussion thread and put them > in a post in your blog along with some other commets. I definitively would > link it from my blog.
> Regarding the MonoRail generator, I have to say that Marc-Andre's generator > was very nice to me.
> > "Production ready", I wonder if its going to be like that. The fact is > > these template things experience varies a lot. The best tool you can > > get is develop one for a specific project, the refactor it back to a > > framework, thats how Ruby on Rails comes off. I think its not going to > > be anytime soon for you to get something really good enough for > > production. Microsoft never provides such thing (examples are > > Enterprise Application Block, I don't think using it speed up your > > deployment time, but indeed slow down usually).
> > MonoRail provides a good enough framework for you to incrementally > > build what you need. I guess the missing piece is a generator that > > really creates something close enough for building your work on top of > > it. There are something scattered around for your needs to be > > fulfilled, but a couple hours make something production ready, I don't > > have much hope about it. Try to create your extension with Plone and > > you will know its not a few hours either. To study the CMS itself and > > then adopt to it probably takes a week, if its something like Plone's > > scale (lets put aside I hate it a lot ：p) The fact is you probably end > > up with something productional a few hours if you start with plain MR > > and dont go too far about the security, and then build that up > > incrementally. A CMS I guess is going to help when you need things to > > really scale in more enterprise like situation for content management, > > but I don't think its going to fit your intention.
> > On Sep 1, 8:21 pm, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote: > > > Hey guys. Great discussion. I would like to say that my intention with > > > the project I am creating is not to build the most robust CMS ever > > > created. I want to empower Monorail developers to be able to quickly > > > (within a couple of hours) create a full back end (users, permission, > > > roles, content and files) to manage data that is "production ready". I > > > know that this idea would go along way to simplifing my life and if it > > > can help me then I am sure that others will be able to benefit from > > > the idea.
> > > > fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > > > type it in source mode. <- By the way, I mean any view directive like > > > > #component, <% %>
> > > > > I think I am just not geek enough to like plone at all. I have > > indeed > > > > > read about Zope a few years ago, and never think I would ever like > > > > > it :) Its way too difficult to understand without getting in depth > > of > > > > > the Zope world. The problem is even in user perspective you have to > > > > > understand Zope Management Interface! I just checked thru the > > > > > documentation to find something as simple as changing the logo for > > > > > Plone. Nope. Never, I would never like it. Thats not I envision as a > > > > > CMS user likes.
> > > > > In my head what most users probably would like something like he > > could > > > > > post an HTML post in a defined location with much freedom, and then > > > > > developers like us customize the skin for them. I don't think Plone > > > > > would be user customizable- to build a skin is very obviously a > > > > > developer's job, so if thats the case, NVelocity/Brail is a decent > > DSL > > > > > for this job. I guess thats why I never liked those full featured > > CMS.
> > > > > I rememeber you did one before, I have indeed played a bit on your > > > > > test site. While the layout looks ugly, I am more or less able to > > > > > understand what you are trying to do. I don't know, in most cases I > > > > > think I prefer to just customize the site with view scripts rather > > > > > than clicking lots of add/remove button and being framed in a square > > > > > like layout. Take dotNetNuke for example, its very 'container' > > > > > oriented, I never think I would like such website, unless I am > > really > > > > > in hurry. And if I am in hurry, maybe a Wiki is more suitable for > > > > > me :)
> > > > > My idea is- maybe just build a navigation structure with page > > content > > > > > embedded, then try to enhance the editor a bit to make those more > > > > > difficult part (e.g. adding view components) possible for layman (a > > > > > dialog with a few parameters and clues on it?) but I did a quick > > test > > > > > with fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > > > > type it in source mode. I guess making a user friendly editor is > > > > > really the hard part as it involves a lot of javascript. After that > > I > > > > > really don't think other basic content storage and indexing work too > > > > > complicated. (Oh well, when you add up searching there's a few thing > > > > > to cater between the view and the real result HTML, but as long as > > all > > > > > in DB, I guess they are searchable?)
> > > > > It could sound messy here :P But I guess its because I am not > > someone > > > > > being 'educated' to love those CMS framework. At least not for now.
> > > > > > I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of > > castleportal was > > > > > > something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. > > > > > > However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that > > > > > > point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my > > opinion. > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being > > launched on > > > > > > >www.premierherbal.com(chinesesite) > > > > > > > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how > > to > > > > > > > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content > > page > > > > > > > controller which would do most shared view based information > > > > > > > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files > > available > > > > > > > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content > > use db), > > > > > > > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > > > > > > > support, and then a web shop.
> > > > > > > I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I > > support > > > > > > > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > > > > > > > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some > > idea I > > > > > > > might consider open that up.
> > > > > > > And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. > > I have > > > > > > > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple > > blog > > > > > > > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > > > > > > > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > > > > > > > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple > > security, > > > > > > > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with > > something not > > > > > > > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with > > any > > > > > > > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent > > touched). > > > > > > > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> > > > > > > On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I > > don't know if > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > project is active or not. > > > > > > > > CastlePortal: > >https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > > > > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of > > development. > > > > > > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > > > > > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a > > focus on > > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. > > Personally, I > > > > > > > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be > > very easy > > > > > > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them > > something > > > > > > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we > > decided to > > > > > > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were > > some very > > > > > > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection > > (we > > > > > > > migrated > > > > > > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit > > broken links), > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > flexible hierarchy (they wanted to be able to move > > sections around > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > insert sections in the middle of the hierarchy easily), > > integrated > > > > > > > > > > file management (with
I think the main issue of the generator is not the generator itself :P (Ok I know it sounds mouthful) The main issue is VS would not know the file's presence without refreshing the project and include that manually. If you ever tried Ruby on Rails you can feel the agility on change reflection. I wonder how we could get close with MonoRail (something with compilation need and typed), lets see what would hammett comes up this time :)
On Sep 1, 10:09 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hei goodwill, it would be nice if you gather all your reflections on this > discussion thread and put them > in a post in your blog along with some other commets. I definitively would > link it from my blog.
> Regarding the MonoRail generator, I have to say that Marc-Andre's generator > was very nice to me.
> > "Production ready", I wonder if its going to be like that. The fact is > > these template things experience varies a lot. The best tool you can > > get is develop one for a specific project, the refactor it back to a > > framework, thats how Ruby on Rails comes off. I think its not going to > > be anytime soon for you to get something really good enough for > > production. Microsoft never provides such thing (examples are > > Enterprise Application Block, I don't think using it speed up your > > deployment time, but indeed slow down usually).
> > MonoRail provides a good enough framework for you to incrementally > > build what you need. I guess the missing piece is a generator that > > really creates something close enough for building your work on top of > > it. There are something scattered around for your needs to be > > fulfilled, but a couple hours make something production ready, I don't > > have much hope about it. Try to create your extension with Plone and > > you will know its not a few hours either. To study the CMS itself and > > then adopt to it probably takes a week, if its something like Plone's > > scale (lets put aside I hate it a lot ：p) The fact is you probably end > > up with something productional a few hours if you start with plain MR > > and dont go too far about the security, and then build that up > > incrementally. A CMS I guess is going to help when you need things to > > really scale in more enterprise like situation for content management, > > but I don't think its going to fit your intention.
> > On Sep 1, 8:21 pm, James G <james.gib...@marginnone.com> wrote: > > > Hey guys. Great discussion. I would like to say that my intention with > > > the project I am creating is not to build the most robust CMS ever > > > created. I want to empower Monorail developers to be able to quickly > > > (within a couple of hours) create a full back end (users, permission, > > > roles, content and files) to manage data that is "production ready". I > > > know that this idea would go along way to simplifing my life and if it > > > can help me then I am sure that others will be able to benefit from > > > the idea.
> > > > fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > > > type it in source mode. <- By the way, I mean any view directive like > > > > #component, <% %>
> > > > > I think I am just not geek enough to like plone at all. I have > > indeed > > > > > read about Zope a few years ago, and never think I would ever like > > > > > it :) Its way too difficult to understand without getting in depth > > of > > > > > the Zope world. The problem is even in user perspective you have to > > > > > understand Zope Management Interface! I just checked thru the > > > > > documentation to find something as simple as changing the logo for > > > > > Plone. Nope. Never, I would never like it. Thats not I envision as a > > > > > CMS user likes.
> > > > > In my head what most users probably would like something like he > > could > > > > > post an HTML post in a defined location with much freedom, and then > > > > > developers like us customize the skin for them. I don't think Plone > > > > > would be user customizable- to build a skin is very obviously a > > > > > developer's job, so if thats the case, NVelocity/Brail is a decent > > DSL > > > > > for this job. I guess thats why I never liked those full featured > > CMS.
> > > > > I rememeber you did one before, I have indeed played a bit on your > > > > > test site. While the layout looks ugly, I am more or less able to > > > > > understand what you are trying to do. I don't know, in most cases I > > > > > think I prefer to just customize the site with view scripts rather > > > > > than clicking lots of add/remove button and being framed in a square > > > > > like layout. Take dotNetNuke for example, its very 'container' > > > > > oriented, I never think I would like such website, unless I am > > really > > > > > in hurry. And if I am in hurry, maybe a Wiki is more suitable for > > > > > me :)
> > > > > My idea is- maybe just build a navigation structure with page > > content > > > > > embedded, then try to enhance the editor a bit to make those more > > > > > difficult part (e.g. adding view components) possible for layman (a > > > > > dialog with a few parameters and clues on it?) but I did a quick > > test > > > > > with fckeditor and it doesn't like anything not so HTML even if you > > > > > type it in source mode. I guess making a user friendly editor is > > > > > really the hard part as it involves a lot of javascript. After that > > I > > > > > really don't think other basic content storage and indexing work too > > > > > complicated. (Oh well, when you add up searching there's a few thing > > > > > to cater between the view and the real result HTML, but as long as > > all > > > > > in DB, I guess they are searchable?)
> > > > > It could sound messy here :P But I guess its because I am not > > someone > > > > > being 'educated' to love those CMS framework. At least not for now.
> > > > > > I used mambo, drupal, and plone in the past so the idea of > > castleportal was > > > > > > something like that. Well, not as comprehensive as Plone. > > > > > > However I think that I didn't know monorail enough at that > > > > > > point and the project (as I left it) needed to be rewritten in my > > opinion. > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > I am developing one with quite a bit progress. Its being > > launched on > > > > > > >www.premierherbal.com(chinesesite) > > > > > > > I think its a quite big topic here :) I personally dont know how > > to > > > > > > > classify if its really a CMS or no. Currently I have a content > > page > > > > > > > controller which would do most shared view based information > > > > > > > rendering, a CompositeViewSourceLoader keeping view files > > available > > > > > > > either from db or file (i.e. Admin use file, end user content > > use db), > > > > > > > a simple PostListComponent with tag based filtering and search > > > > > > > support, and then a web shop.
> > > > > > > I am currently developing this as my ISV product and while I > > support > > > > > > > idea of open source, currently I can't find good enough business > > > > > > > alignment initiative for myself. If anyone could put up some > > idea I > > > > > > > might consider open that up.
> > > > > > > And Carlos, maybe its a good idea to define what is CMS so far. > > I have > > > > > > > seen a lot of different implementations, they range from simple > > blog > > > > > > > like post list to a huge framework which in theory you can plug > > > > > > > anything in. I found this is interesting, as originally I have > > > > > > > developed mine to be page content provider with some simple > > security, > > > > > > > now I foresee its not enough and I am enhancing it with > > something not > > > > > > > so content only (such as e-shop). Afterall I haven't played with > > any > > > > > > > major CMS (I hate PHP, sorry, so XOOPS for example, I havent > > touched). > > > > > > > Plone I remember is on Python/Zope?
> > > > > > > On Sep 1, 5:00 pm, "Carlos Ble" <ble.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I was working on an open CMS but it was one year ago and I > > don't know if > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > project is active or not. > > > > > > > > CastlePortal: > >https://developer.berlios.de/projects/castleportal/ > > > > > > > > When I left the project it was in a very early stage of > > development. > > > > > > > > Ask the guys at shidix.com
> > > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 8:36 pm, Brian <bdema...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I developed a custom CMS using WebForms for a client ( > > > > > > > > >http://www.gnyha.org) about two years ago. It had more of a > > focus on > > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > > > > content management than enormous layout flexibility. > > Personally, I > > > > > > > > > > liked the solution we came up with, which turned out to be > > very easy > > > > > > > > > > for the client to understand. (When we first showed them > > something > > > > > > > > > > like DotNetNuke they were so intimidated by it that we > > decided to > > > > > > > > > > build a simpler solution to meet their needs.) There were > > some very > > > > > > > > > > core requirements -- role-based security, URL redirection > > (we > > > > > > > migrated > > > > > > > > > > a 1000+ page web site to the CMS, and couldn't permit > > broken links),
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