samesexsex
Sarah Isaacs
samesexsex.
(damn, it must scare them homophobe's)
samesexsex.
***********************************************************************
***** "i can see clearly now the rain has gone" *****
Sarah Isaacs
email address: sis...@chat.carleton.ca
***********************************************************************
Scott D. Parker
> samesexsex.
Sarah its people like you that GIVE homosexual people a bad name. You
arn't promoting understanding and acceptance.. your just posting little
aggravating tidbits of mindless tripe.. and frankly, I don't care what
your orientation is.. you're just annoying.
__________________________________________________________________________
|\-------------------------------------/||\-------------------------------/|
|| Name: Scott D. K. Parker / GreeBo |||| 57 000 000 Sites and there's ||
|| Address: sdpa...@chat.carleton.ca |||| |\| U T ]-[ | |\| (0) |\| !! ||
|/-------------------------------------\||/-------------------------------\|
|(((((((((((( http://chat.carleton.ca/~sdparker --> ALL NEW! ))))))))))))|
|(( Originating From - http://chat.carleton.ca/~sdparker/FASTChat.html ))|
|(( ** REMEMBER TO GET ALL THOSE CAPITAL LETTERS IN THE RIGHT SPOTS!! ** ))|
```^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'''
Lucy Trinh
> samesexsex.
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"When I met the woman of my dreams, I knew.
I saw her, and I was immediately unable to speak.
My throat locked up, my stomach was in knots,
I was sweaty, clammy, and nauseous. Lucy Trinh
I had learned years before that feeling nauseous Carleton University
means you're in love." 1st Year Industrial Design
-Paul Reiser ltr...@chat.carleton.ca
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
Steven Meece
> Sarah Isaacs (sis...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > samesexsex.
>
> Sarah its people like you that GIVE homosexual people a bad name.
I think the test was to see how many people would shit their pants in
public when confronted with even a whisper of homosexuality. There are
many who are so uptight over the issue that even the sole enscription
"samesexsex" can make them go bananas and scream "Stop flaunting it! I
can't stand to hear about it!"
Jamie Labonte
> samesexsex.
> (damn, it must scare them homophobe's)
> samesexsex.
NO, but it revolts us "homophobes" very well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ironic isn't it, Smithers? This lowly band of slack drawn troglodytes
has cost me my election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would
be the one to go to jail! That's democracy for you!" --Montgomery Burns
(Or was that Pat Buchanon...?)
Email address: jlab...@chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Bird
> NO, but it revolts us "homophobes" very well.
You misspelt "fuckheads".
----------- The Church of Cthulhu: http://chat.carleton.ca/~cbird-----------
"Does Barbie come with Ken?"
"Barbie comes with GI Joe. She fakes it with Ken." --Anon.
CTHULHU FOR PRESIDENT IN 1996- "Why Settle For The Lesser Evil?"
Christopher Bird
> I think the test was to see how many people would shit their pants in
> public when confronted with even a whisper of homosexuality. There are
> many who are so uptight over the issue that even the sole enscription
> "samesexsex" can make them go bananas and scream "Stop flaunting it! I
> can't stand to hear about it!"
And there are also people who simply sigh, because it's *tiresome*. I
don't care about hearing it one way or the other; and I'd be equally
unimpressed if someone posted "differentsexsex" or "hamstersexsex" or
whatnot. I honestly don't give a damn about who a person fucks (and have
been flattered the one time I was propositioned by a guy. Interested, no.
Flattered, yeah), so why waste a thread?
Robert Brando
> (and have been flattered the one time I was propositioned by a guy.
> Interested, no. Flattered, yeah)
So what did your dad say anyways? ;)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Brando
Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Email address: rbr...@chat.carleton.ca
WWW HomePage: http://chat.carleton.ca/~rbrando
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucy Trinh
> Christopher Bird (cb...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > (and have been flattered the one time I was propositioned by a guy.
> > Interested, no. Flattered, yeah)
> So what did your dad say anyways? ;)
Man, I should be studying for Physics...oh well! :)
until our next encounter...
Peter Bobak
> samesexsex.
> (damn, it must scare them homophobe's)
> samesexsex.
oppositesexsex
(damn it must scare those heterophobes)
Sarah,
Once again your ignorance shines through. Like a good number of
non-homophobic members of the Carleton Community, I find that the only
reason you post these is to simply cause shit.
For once in your meaningless life, why don't you attempt to back
up your staements with some sort of legitimate fact. You seem to have a
cause, which is splendid, and a commendable one at that, but you demean it
by uteering such jibberish and you actually seem to perpetuate homophobia.
Instead o screaming and getting into people's faces, why don't you try, as
difficult as it may be, to utter something intelligent and discussable.
The idea of same sex sex does not shock me, nor disgust me, but
you petty attempt to get your name out there does.
> ***********************************************************************
> ***** "i can see clearly now the rain has gone" *****
^^^^^^^^^^^
-Now if you could only learn to speak that way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Bobak
Carleton University
Mass Communications and a strong follower of Degrootian Law!
Only 23, but I still haven't flown solo!
Email address: pbo...@chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Merifield
> > samesexsex.
> > (damn, it must scare them homophobe's)
> The idea of same sex sex does not shock me, nor disgust me, but
> you petty attempt to get your name out there does.
Ya well it disgusts me.. is that what your waiting to hear? Im not going
to lie about it, and im not scared to say it. BUT, do you think you ever
would have known how I feel about it if you didnt start bitching? Your
the only person complaining around here.. if you dont like yourself then
change. People like me are not the ones walking around telling you people
to change or what to do.. I dont care what you do. You have your
preference and I have mine. Preaching your 'ways' does tend to piss
people off.. you cant change the way 'homophobes' feel about it. Put it
this way, sit there and imagine yourself being with a female.. unless your
bisexual that would probably totally turn you off! Flame me if you will,
and I know you will, but thats how 'I' feel about it.. and the only reason
I ever said anything about it is because you asked.. well there you go.
For the record, unlike 'cBird' I would not be flattered if a guy came
onto me! But who or why would anyone care? :)
---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---
Aaron Merifield
Carleton University
Graduated spring-95, B.Sc. Physics.
Department of Computer Mathematics, 3rd yr.
*=--=-==-=--=-==-=--=-==-=--=-==-=--=-==-=--=-==-=--=-=*
E-MAIL: Amer...@chat.carleton.ca
WEB-PAGE: http://chat.carleton.ca/~amerifie (re-doing it!)
---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---
Clayton L. Scott
: > > samesexsex.
: preference and I have mine. Preaching your 'ways' does tend to piss
: people off.. you cant change the way 'homophobes' feel about it. Put it
: this way, sit there and imagine yourself being with a female.. unless your
: bisexual that would probably totally turn you off! Flame me if you will,
: and I know you will, but thats how 'I' feel about it.. and the only reason
: I ever said anything about it is because you asked.. well there you go.
Sarah is a female name you retard. She likes women. Get a life.
Grow up. Get a clue...
PS Sarah do you have a clue either?
/tex
"Not just another half wit Carleton student"
Christopher Bird
> > (and have been flattered the one time I was propositioned by a guy.
> > Interested, no. Flattered, yeah)
> So what did your dad say anyways? ;)
Suffice it to say I never brought this up with him. However, if I had, he
probably would have said "good work. Now try to get the *other* sex to
notice you and you'll be going places."
Sarah Isaacs
> Sarah its people like you that GIVE homosexual people a bad name. You
> arn't promoting understanding and acceptance.. your just posting little
> aggravating tidbits of mindless tripe.. and frankly, I don't care what
> your orientation is.. you're just annoying.
You are so angry! Why is that? I would have never thought it would affect
people like this. I am sincerely sorry if I have made people feel
uncomfortable by my light humour. Wow, I never knew there were so many
"anal" people in this world ....
***********************************************************************
***** "i can see clearly now the rain has gone" *****
Sarah Isaacs
> Sarah is a female name you retard. She likes women. Get a life.
> Grow up. Get a clue...
> PS Sarah do you have a clue either?
*** actually, I do! Do you?
Sarah Isaacs
> Sarah,
> Once again your ignorance shines through. Like a good number of
> non-homophobic members of the Carleton Community, I find that the only
> reason you post these is to simply cause shit.
> For once in your meaningless life, why don't you attempt to back
> up your staements with some sort of legitimate fact. You seem to have a
> cause, which is splendid, and a commendable one at that, but you demean it
> by uteering such jibberish and you actually seem to perpetuate homophobia.
> Instead o screaming and getting into people's faces, why don't you try, as
> difficult as it may be, to utter something intelligent and discussable.
> The idea of same sex sex does not shock me, nor disgust me, but
> you petty attempt to get your name out there does.
***Meaningless life? Do you know me? I thought only I knew how
meaningless my life was! Gee whiz, with that in mind, I think I will go
hang myself. Afterall, the Great One has quoted my life to be
meaningless. Good bye to all ....
***You are homophobic and to any rational person on this planet you proved
yourself to be just that.
Sarah Isaacs
> > > samesexsex.
> > > (damn, it must scare them homophobe's)
> Ya well it disgusts me.. is that what your waiting to hear? Im not going
> to lie about it, and im not scared to say it. BUT, do you think you ever
> would have known how I feel about it if you didnt start bitching? Your
> the only person complaining around here.. if you dont like yourself then
> change. People like me are not the ones walking around telling you people
> to change or what to do.. I dont care what you do. You have your
> preference and I have mine. Preaching your 'ways' does tend to piss
> people off.. you cant change the way 'homophobes' feel about it. Put it
> this way, sit there and imagine yourself being with a female.. unless your
> bisexual that would probably totally turn you off! Flame me if you will,
> and I know you will, but thats how 'I' feel about it.. and the only reason
> I ever said anything about it is because you asked.. well there you go.
I am a strong believer of speaking ones mind. The exact reason for my
"complaining" is to bring people like yourself with your homophobic views
to light. The way to gain acceptance is through awareness and education.
Talking about homosexuals and our lifestyles allows for a sence of
awareness. Seeing us on the street allows for a sence of awareness. You
have the basic form of awareness. For you to stop being homophobic
(discriminatory) you would have to admit that you are ignorant to
homosexuals, and have the desire to learn and accept us for who we are and
to respect us as fellow humans. AT this point, you can't do that. Don't
get me wrong however. Having the desire to learn doesn't necessarily mean
that you are depicting some underlying desire to be gay! All it means is
that you are seeking an understanding so that you would no longer practice
basic discriminatio of those that are homosexual. And that's okay to do!
jean richard
> ***Meaningless life? Do you know me? I thought only I knew how
> meaningless my life was! Gee whiz, with that in mind, I think I will go
> hang myself. Afterall, the Great One has quoted my life to be
> meaningless. Good bye to all ....
You go around on carleton newsgroups starting fights about homosexuality.
That's about as meaningless as you can get.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
l Jean Richard | "If you can read this, my l
l jjri...@chat.carleton.ca | cloaking device must be l
l Computer Science at Good Ol'Carleton U. | on the fritz" l
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Andrew Metcalfe
> > Sarah is a female name you retard. She likes women. Get a life.
> > Grow up. Get a clue...
> > PS Sarah do you have a clue either?
> *** actually, I do! Do you?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Matter of opinion, I guess.
Question: What are you trying to accomplish here? Are you even
associated with the GLB? I've never seen this kind of crap come out of
there before. You're doing them a disservice by rambling on like this,
Andrew Metcalfe
Canadian Studies at Carleton University.
End User Education, Metcalfe Consulting, Toronto Free-Net.
See the best of Carleton's webspace at http://www.carleton.ca/bestof
Brian Rose
Sarah, It's fun to cause shit but hey, the last CK One commercial was
about as controversial and "shocking" as your posting. It's funny how so
many idiots, as myself responmd.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Rose
Carleton University
Email address: br...@chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarah Isaacs
> Question: What are you trying to accomplish here? Are you even
> associated with the GLB? I've never seen this kind of crap come out of
> there before. You're doing them a disservice by rambling on like this,
Metcalfe:
No. Just because I am member of the LGB community, doesn't mean I work at
the GLB Centre. I have absiloutly no affiliation with those on 4Unicentre.
I didn't know someone had to be associated with an organization to have
there opinions count.
What am I trying accomplish here? Actually, not much I guess. I just
find it interesting that just by writing "samesexsex" twice on a fun
thread can cause so much anger and hostility within a group of people. I
can't help but question what about that little phrase pushed
so many buttons in so many people that they can call me names and try and
put me down. To be honst with you Metcalfe, I can't help but feel a
little upset at it. Instead of overlooking this as a thread not worth
commenting on, people have really taken time out of their days to insult
me. Gee whiz. I guess we're all really uncomfortable with the idea of
samesexsex.
Some say that they are "sick of hearing about it", or fed up with it "always
being pushed in their faces". No wonder I refuse to watch 90210, Melrose,
etc.. I'll tell ya, WAAAYYYY too much heterosex being pushed in MY FACE!
Come on fokes. Let's ease up here and really think about what we have
going on. What are the key issues? It isn't me! What it is is the idea of
samesexsex (then again, maybe it is me ..., and the rest of the 10%+ of
Canada).
Cheers!
Brian Publicover
> ***You are homophobic and to any rational person on this planet
Uh, actually, I can assure he definitely *isn't*.
> you proved yourself to be just that.
How so? If you're going to make slanderous remarks like this,
back them up.
brian publicover/mass communications/bpub...@chat.carleton.ca
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why do cupids and angels/continually haunt her dreams/like memories of
another life?" -- 'Trompe le Monde,' the Pixies
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Publicover
Sarah Isaacs (sis...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> I didn't know someone had to be associated with an organization to have
> there opinions count.
I don't think that is what he meant. The GLB promotes
homosexuality in an informative, non-antagonistic manner, for admirable
reasons (ie. awareness, acceptance, fighting homophobia). Metcalfe (I think)
was suggesting you do the opposite.
> What am I trying accomplish here? Actually, not much I guess. I just
Then why post it? Or do you enjoy having your name associated
with issues that promote your "liberal attitudes"? If you were genuine in
your beliefs, you wouldn't need to seek reassurance from negative feedback.
This does more to perpetuate homophobia... you don't want to create
understanding, you're attempting to dichotomize sexual orientation (which
is what homophobes do, too).
> me. Gee whiz. I guess we're all really uncomfortable with the idea of
> samesexsex.
I suspect you are, otherwise this would be a non-issue and you
wouldn't have posted in the first place.
> Some say that they are "sick of hearing about it", or fed up with it "always
> being pushed in their faces". No wonder I refuse to watch 90210, Melrose,
> etc.. I'll tell ya, WAAAYYYY too much heterosex being pushed in MY FACE!
I hate those shows too. Guess what? I don't watch them.
> going on. What are the key issues? It isn't me! What it is is the idea of
It isn't an issue. You are making it one.
Aaron Merifield
> Sarah is a female name you retard. She likes women. Get a life.
> Grow up. Get a clue...
Relax buddy, my mistake. The point was made though.. blah.
Scott D. Parker
> find it interesting that just by writing "samesexsex" twice on a fun
> thread can cause so much anger and hostility within a group of people. I
A) Your idea of "Fun" is pretty lame.. are you really that bored?
> can't help but question what about that little phrase pushed
> so many buttons in so many people that they can call me names and try and
> put me down.
B) Some are tryin to put you down.. but MOST of us are just askin "Why is
it that this strange person "Sarah" feels the need to start useless bickering.
> little upset at it. Instead of overlooking this as a thread not worth
> commenting on, people have really taken time out of their days to insult
> me. Gee whiz. I guess we're all really uncomfortable with the idea of
> samesexsex.
C) No.. they take the time out to ask you why oh WHY are you wasting our
valuable time with your silly little posts.. its not like this is the
FIRST time you have done it.. the "joke" wears thin fast. I think you
just like to hear yourself talk.
> Come on fokes. Let's ease up here and really think about what we have
> going on. What are the key issues? It isn't me! What it is is the idea of
D) Hmm interestin.. Sarah... suddenly wants to talk about issues.. I dont
remember her EVER brinin up a valid one or tryin to debate it
intelliently.. do you? If anyone even mentions "Not likin the idea of
samesexsex" she jumps on them as homophobic.. they are not AFRAID of it..
(Phobia.. the fear of something) .. they just choose not partake in it..
you seem to have this odd misconception that if people ARE not
Gay/lesbian.. then they are homophobes.
Basically.. chill out or shut up.
K.M. Mennie
Aaron Merifield <amer...@chat.carleton.ca> wrote:
:I do 'accept' the fact.. I just dont agree with it.
I don't think you _understand_, though.
:I would have to say I am
:homophobic because I shudder at the thought of a guy coming on to me.
`I come from one of those tiny wee towns where we are raised to believe
that them faggots are dying for beekcake like me.'
Something leads me to think that you'd shudder more at a guy winking at
you than at a wildly unappealing woman trying to force herself on you, but
no mind. Aside from the absurdity of a man hitting on straight little you,
what's the problem? There's a difference between informed dislike -- to
use your tomato example, `I've eaten tomatoes, thought they tasted vile,
and they made me throw up' and just uneducated fear -- `I don't like the
look of tomatoes; my mom told me they were gross, and you know how they
like to squirt, and they _always_ stain.'
Aaron Merifield
> I am a strong believer of speaking ones mind. The exact reason for my
> "complaining" is to bring people like yourself with your homophobic views
> to light. The way to gain acceptance is through awareness and education.
I do 'accept' the fact.. I just dont agree with it. I think this is what
'you' dont understand. My girl friend doesnt like tomatos and I do, that
doesnt mean I dont accept her. You are uptight and insecure with
yourself. I am very accepting of people and their views. Maybe we just
have different views of the word homophobic. I would have to say I am
homophobic because I shudder at the thought of a guy coming on to me. That
by no means says that I dont accept people for who they are, or says that I
am discriminatory.. its just not for me. But then again, I shudder at the
thought of eating liver too..
> Talking about homosexuals and our lifestyles allows for a sence of
> awareness. Seeing us on the street allows for a sence of awareness. You
> have the basic form of awareness. For you to stop being homophobic
> (discriminatory) you would have to admit that you are ignorant to
> homosexuals, and have the desire to learn and accept us for who we are and
> to respect us as fellow humans. AT this point, you can't do that. Don't
> get me wrong however. Having the desire to learn doesn't necessarily mean
> that you are depicting some underlying desire to be gay!
Hehe.. nope!
> All it means is that you are seeking an understanding so that you would
> no longer practice basic discriminatio of those that are homosexual. And
> that's okay to do!
This is where you dont understand. Who ever said I was discriminatory?
All I said was its not for me.. You have to learn to accept yourself
before you can accept other people and I think thats the problem. I could
be wrong but you keep posting here that all these followups are of people
going nuts and people posting about how homosexuality is wrong.. you
should re-read the follow ups because i think out of approx 25 follow ups
I was the only one to 'really' say I dont like it. Everyone else just
seems to say its ok. So what are you complaining about? :)
Christopher Bird
Okay, someone writes
> > The idea of same sex sex does not shock me, nor disgust me, but
> > you petty attempt to get your name out there does.
And Sarah replies
> ***You are homophobic and to any rational person on this planet you proved
> yourself to be just that.
I don't get it. I guess I'm not a rational person.
Christopher Bird
Distribution:
Sarah Isaacs (sis...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> What am I trying accomplish here? Actually, not much I guess. I just
> find it interesting that just by writing "samesexsex" twice on a fun
> thread can cause so much anger and hostility within a group of people.
Jamie Labonte doesn't count as "people", Aaron Merifield admitted he finds
the notion of same-sex disturbing (and was quite fair about it), and Brian
Rose was his usual dickwad self. The rest of us have been wondering why
you so dearly love shit-disturbing.
M. Bird
> > samesexsex.
> NO, but it revolts us "homophobes" very well.
Hey! Be careful with those italics. Beyond that, feeling revulsed is
just that: _feeling_ revulsed. It carries no political, moral or
ideological weight. It _means_ nothing that is not psychological.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Every once in a while however I have managed to behave as if I were
stupid enough to try to change my life." (Hakim Bey)
hissir Michael Bird (mb...@chat.carleton.ca)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Metcalfe
> I do 'accept' the fact.. I just dont agree with it. I think this is what
> 'you' dont understand. My girl friend doesnt like tomatos and I do, that
> doesnt mean I dont accept her. You are uptight and insecure with
> yourself. I am very accepting of people and their views. Maybe we just
> have different views of the word homophobic. I would have to say I am
> homophobic because I shudder at the thought of a guy coming on to me. That
> by no means says that I dont accept people for who they are, or says that I
> am discriminatory.. its just not for me. But then again, I shudder at the
> thought of eating liver too..
When you say things like 'shudder' and 'disgusting', they just don't mesh
very well with "it's not for me".
I can take some personal experience from this. A while ago I went to
ladies night at Crystals in Hull. I had a 65 year old woman hitting on
me. I shudder at the thought of that ever happening before, because it
completely disgusted me. I have a strong stereotype against going out
with a 65 year old woman, she looked like a prune! Now, a while ago I was
hit on by a guy, which was alright considering that I was in a gay bar.
Did it disgust me? Not at all, I simply wasn't interested.
Whenever someone tells me that they're "disgusted, revolted, or I shudder"
at homosexuality, it tells me that that person is lacking in
understanding, and acceptance. You may accept that person "I have a lot
of gay friends", but you certainly do not accept that persons sexuality.
shannon salisbury
> In article <4lm360$h...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>,
> :I do 'accept' the fact.. I just dont agree with it.
> I don't think you _understand_, though.
> :I would have to say I am
> :homophobic because I shudder at the thought of a guy coming on to me.
> `I come from one of those tiny wee towns where we are raised to believe
> that them faggots are dying for beekcake like me.'
Oh, come now, Kia, you know it could just as well be, "I come from one of
those really big cities/scary suburbs where we are raised to believe that
them faggots are dying for beefcake like me." I've never grown up in a
small town, but I had no shortage of 'phobes/haters around me in Orleans...
-shannon.
Robert Brando
> > > (and have been flattered the one time I was propositioned by a guy.
> > > Interested, no. Flattered, yeah)
> > So what did your dad say anyways? ;)
> Suffice it to say I never brought this up with him. However, if I had, he
> probably would have said "good work. Now try to get the *other* sex to
> notice you and you'll be going places."
I guess my attempt at humour was a little to vague. I was implying that
your dad was the one who.... anyways *sigh* I hate explaining jokes,
especially one liners....
K.M. Mennie
Robert Brando <rbr...@chat.carleton.ca> wrote:
:Christopher Bird (cb...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
:> > > (and have been flattered the one time I was propositioned by a guy.
:> > > Interested, no. Flattered, yeah)
:> > So what did your dad say anyways? ;)
:> Suffice it to say I never brought this up with him. However, if I had, he
No, no -- Bird's brain was a little vague there. Trust me, everybody else
thought it was funny.
Peter Bobak
> ***You are homophobic and to any rational person on this planet you proved
Such as yourself??? Ask anyone who knows me, and they will tell you
exactly what you are araid to here. I am a heterosexual who is not, by any
means a homophobe. Boo!
Aaron Merifield
> In article <4lm360$h...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>,
> Aaron Merifield <amer...@chat.carleton.ca> wrote:
> :I do 'accept' the fact.. I just dont agree with it.
> Something leads me to think that you'd shudder more at a guy winking at
> you than at a wildly unappealing woman trying to force herself on you, but
Well there's a good example because I would get the same 'shuddering'
feeling about that! Actually I was going to make that example the first
time around but didnt..
> There's a difference between informed dislike -- [snip]
> and just uneducated fear -- [snip]
This is where everyone looses me. Why do you think Im 'uneducated' about
homosexuality? What would it take.. me being with another guy? Is that
what you call being educated? So lets hear exactly where my ignorance
lies. educated me.. please be specific, maybe then we can all get onto
another topic. (Im serious incase that sounds sarcastic, people keep
saying Im uneducated but never say more than that. If you really think I
am uneducated tell me why, dont just say it and leave it at that. Seems
like its just an easy way out for you to say that).
Aaron Merifield
> Aaron Merifield (amer...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> When you say things like 'shudder' and 'disgusting', they just don't mesh
> very well with "it's not for me".
Well if you pick the odd word out of certain sentances and put them all
together you could make it sound anyway you like. They were in context
with the examples I gave.
> I can take some personal experience from this. A while ago I went to
> ladies night at Crystals in Hull. I had a 65 year old woman hitting on
> me. I shudder at the thought of that ever happening before, because it
> completely disgusted me. I have a strong stereotype against going out
> with a 65 year old woman, she looked like a prune! Now, a while ago I was
> hit on by a guy, which was alright considering that I was in a gay bar.
> Did it disgust me? Not at all, I simply wasn't interested.
Ya so.. what would you expect being in a gay bar? If that happened to me
its not like I'd get up and hit the guy.. As for the old prune, hehe,
that would be fine too as long as she didnt persist after you told her how
you feel about it, or that your just not interested. The point is you
shudder at the thought of something more happening. If you were to have
the same thought with the guy, would you not shudder at that? I
understand you said you didnt at the gay bar because you 'thought nothing
of it', but if you did think something of it you probably would shudder.
> Whenever someone tells me that they're "disgusted, revolted, or I shudder"
> at homosexuality, it tells me that that person is lacking in
> understanding, and acceptance. You may accept that person "I have a lot
> of gay friends", but you certainly do not accept that persons sexuality.
For the record, I never said the word 'revolted', and when I said
disgusted I believe I was commenting on a line someone else wrote.
Anyway, that unimportant i suppose. The point is, why do people keep
saying I dont understand??!! Really, what is there to not understand?
I personally dont have the same feelings towards men as would a gay man.
Whats wrong with that? A gay man also would not have the same feelings
towards a female as I may have.. likewise, its to be expected. So if I
were to use the same argument that people keep making to me, i could say
that gay people just dont understand heterosexuality. Where is the sense
in that?
This whole subject is a difficult one because it moves into the finer
points of peoples personal view points.. its like religion. People believe
what they believe.. its not like girl guide cookies, you cant just go
knocking on peoples doors 'selling' your beliefs. Dont get me wrong, i
know your not selling your beliefs, but what do you do when people hand
you religeous fliers downtown Toronto, you either keep walking or you chuck
it on the garbage. Why? Because you know its not going to change how you
feel about what you believe in. Does that mean you dont accept them as
people? I dont have to believe in what they believe in to be able to
accept them as a person.. but at the same time im not a budist! But who
really cares about that?
Rob Feller
> The rest of us have been wondering why you so dearly love shit-disturbing.
You ever hear that song "Let's give em' something to talk about?" It's a
*discussion* group for gods sake.....
*****************************************************************************
Beauty And The Beast holds true to life ---- any woman would forget a guy's
shortcomings if he lived in a nice house and gave her a library to keep.....
*****************************************************************************
Allan Cybulskie
> > Sarah,
> > Once again your ignorance shines through. Like a good number of
> > non-homophobic members of the Carleton Community, I find that the only
> > reason you post these is to simply cause shit.
> > For once in your meaningless life, why don't you attempt to back
> > up your staements with some sort of legitimate fact. You seem to have a
> > cause, which is splendid, and a commendable one at that, but you demean it
> > by uteering such jibberish and you actually seem to perpetuate homophobia.
> > Instead o screaming and getting into people's faces, why don't you try, as
> > difficult as it may be, to utter something intelligent and discussable.
> > The idea of same sex sex does not shock me, nor disgust me, but
> > you petty attempt to get your name out there does.
> ***You are homophobic and to any rational person on this planet you proved
> yourself to be just that.
Um, from the post above, he isn't homophobic by ANY stretching of the
definition of that word (and it has been stretched). All he's said is
that he wants you to either post facts and rational comment, or post
nothing, instead of posting flames, mindless rhetoric, and trolls. How is
that homophobic?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Commander Allan Cybulskie Email address: acyb...@chat.carleton.ca
Carleton University
"There are no unachievable goals; there are no unsavable souls"
- Ozzy Osbourne in "I Just Want You"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Cybulskie
> > > > samesexsex.
> > > > (damn, it must scare them homophobe's)
> > Ya well it disgusts me.. is that what your waiting to hear? Im not going
> > to lie about it, and im not scared to say it. BUT, do you think you ever
> > would have known how I feel about it if you didnt start bitching? Your
> > the only person complaining around here.. if you dont like yourself then
> > change. People like me are not the ones walking around telling you people
> > to change or what to do.. I dont care what you do. You have your
> > preference and I have mine. Preaching your 'ways' does tend to piss
> > people off.. you cant change the way 'homophobes' feel about it. Put it
> > this way, sit there and imagine yourself being with a female.. unless your
> > bisexual that would probably totally turn you off! Flame me if you will,
> > and I know you will, but thats how 'I' feel about it.. and the only reason
> > I ever said anything about it is because you asked.. well there you go.
> I am a strong believer of speaking ones mind. The exact reason for my
> "complaining" is to bring people like yourself with your homophobic views
> to light. The way to gain acceptance is through awareness and education.
> Talking about homosexuals and our lifestyles allows for a sence of
> awareness. Seeing us on the street allows for a sence of awareness. You
> have the basic form of awareness. For you to stop being homophobic
> (discriminatory) you would have to admit that you are ignorant to
> homosexuals, and have the desire to learn and accept us for who we are and
> to respect us as fellow humans. AT this point, you can't do that. Don't
> get me wrong however. Having the desire to learn doesn't necessarily mean
> that you are depicting some underlying desire to be gay! All it means is
> that you are seeking an understanding so that you would no longer practice
> basic discriminatio of those that are homosexual. And that's okay to do!
Again, how are his views homophobic? He has stated that he finds the act
of same-sex sex (in his case, him having sex with a male, or sex between
two males) disgusting -- meaning that he doesn't like it and won't
practice it. He has said nothing about hating homosexuals, and in fact
has stated that he doesn't care what your sexual preference is. How is
that discrimination or homophobia? All he has really said is (and I
apologize for the paraphrase) "Sex with men is not a turn-on for me; I am
heterosexual. You can do whatever you want as far as I'm concerned" ...
BTW, could you answer his question? Which was, how do you feel about sex
with men (or sex between men and women)? Does it attract you?
K.M. Mennie
Aaron Merifield <amer...@chat.carleton.ca> wrote:
:K.M. Mennie (kme...@superior.carleton.ca) wrote:
:> There's a difference between informed dislike -- [snip]
:> and just uneducated fear -- [snip]
:This is where everyone looses me. Why do you think Im 'uneducated' about
:homosexuality? What would it take.. me being with another guy? Is that
Okay. Substitute `irrational' for `uneducated.'
Just why do you think there's any chance of a man hitting on you, anyway?
When I said `uneducated,' I meant `fallen prey to the popular myths' --
gay men are insanely horny and you are endlessly desirable to them. Also
`inexperienced' -- I don't believe for a second that your dislike of
homosexuals comes out of any sort of real experience (which would also be
irrational, to paint a group with a single brush).
alex chesser
> Just why do you think there's any chance of a man hitting on you, anyway?
(WAY more than the number of women *snif*) i think the chances are really
quite high.
> gay men are insanely horny and you are endlessly desirable to them. Also
well, maybe not insanely horney but certainly more adventurous (heavy
petting in the corner of a club with a crowd of people right beside them
at the next table over) .. but i mean ive seen dry humping on the FLOOR at
reactor so its not that different it's still weird any way you cut it
i don't personally enjoy watching it but there are those types who enjoy
being watched so .. whatever
> `inexperienced' -- I don't believe for a second that your dislike of
> homosexuals comes out of any sort of real experience (which would also be
> irrational, to paint a group with a single brush).
sure
Sarah Isaacs
Homophobia isn't an issue? Take your head out of the sand, Publicover!
Is that why homosexuals still aren't intilted to legal benefits?
Ha!
Scott D. Parker
> >The rest of us have been wondering why you so dearly love shit-disturbing.
So get a job as a manure spreader. You should feel right at home.
Hah! Burn!
Sarah Isaacs
I never knew I had so much control of peoples emotions and reactions. If
you don't like bickering, ignore what I have to say. Okay?
ps-i LLOOOVVVEEE shit disturbing
> ----------- The Church of Cthulhu: http://chat.carleton.ca/~cbird-----------
> "Does Barbie come with Ken?"
> "Barbie comes with GI Joe. She fakes it with Ken." --Anon.
> CTHULHU FOR PRESIDENT IN 1996- "Why Settle For The Lesser Evil?"
***********************************************************************
Trevor MacFarlane
> > > going on. What are the key issues? It isn't me! What it is is the idea of
> > It isn't an issue. You are making it one.
> Homophobia isn't an issue? Take your head out of the sand, Publicover!
> Is that why homosexuals still aren't intilted to legal benefits?
You seem to use the term homophobic quite liberally. Do you have any clue
as to its meaning, or perhaps is it simply a word invented by the homosexual
community. You just slap the label on to anyone who dares to disagree
with your same sex practices. I do not fear you, but I do find homosexual
sex acts quite disgusting. Say what you will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trevor MacFarlane
Carleton University
"This is my blood you drink. This is my body you eat."
"If you would remember me.. when you eat and drink."
Email address: tmac...@chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Cybulskie
> In article <4ln5mv$n...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>,
> Aaron Merifield <amer...@chat.carleton.ca> wrote:
> :K.M. Mennie (kme...@superior.carleton.ca) wrote:
> :> There's a difference between informed dislike -- [snip]
> :> and just uneducated fear -- [snip]
> :This is where everyone looses me. Why do you think Im 'uneducated' about
> :homosexuality? What would it take.. me being with another guy? Is that
> Okay. Substitute `irrational' for `uneducated.'
> Just why do you think there's any chance of a man hitting on you, anyway?
> When I said `uneducated,' I meant `fallen prey to the popular myths' --
> gay men are insanely horny and you are endlessly desirable to them.
I would assume that gay persons are just as "horny" as anyone else -- and
haven't you ever been hit on by a guy in a bar? Same thing applies ...
> Also
> `inexperienced' -- I don't believe for a second that your dislike of
> homosexuals comes out of any sort of real experience (which would also be
> irrational, to paint a group with a single brush).
Dislike of homosexuals? He just said that he finds the idea of having sex
with someone who is the same sex as him disturbing. He does not find the
idea of same sex sex appealing. What experience would you suggest he
gain? He has said that he is perfectly willing to accept their sexual
preferences, and therefore bears no malice towards them for their sexual
preferences. He does not dislike homosexuals in general ...
Christopher Bird
> You ever hear that song "Let's give em' something to talk about?" It's a
> *discussion* group for gods sake.....
This would be great if Sarah actually discussed anything. Her rants are
completely unrelated to anything else in the thread, most particularly
with the post she follows up.
I am reminded of the Python "argument" sketch.
Brian Publicover
> I would assume that gay persons are just as "horny" as anyone else -- and
> haven't you ever been hit on by a guy in a bar? Same thing applies ...
Which does not necessarily mean that they want to hit on you.
Have you ever been hit on by a guy in a bar? If you're not interested,
just politely decline.
brian publicover/mass communications/bpub...@chat.carleton.ca
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why do cupids and angels/continually haunt her dreams/like memories of
another life?" -- 'Trompe le Monde,' the Pixies
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Merifield
> In article <4ln5mv$n...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>,
> Aaron Merifield <amer...@chat.carleton.ca> wrote:
> :K.M. Mennie (kme...@superior.carleton.ca) wrote:
> :> There's a difference between informed dislike -- [snip]
> :> and just uneducated fear -- [snip]
> :This is where everyone looses me. Why do you think Im 'uneducated' about
> :homosexuality? What would it take.. me being with another guy? Is that
> Okay. Substitute `irrational' for `uneducated.'
> Just why do you think there's any chance of a man hitting on you, anyway?
> When I said `uneducated,' I meant `fallen prey to the popular myths' --
> gay men are insanely horny and you are endlessly desirable to them. Also
> `inexperienced' -- I don't believe for a second that your dislike of
> homosexuals comes out of any sort of real experience (which would also be
> irrational, to paint a group with a single brush).
You still miss the point and are creating other points that I didnt even
say. This is exactly why I asked a clear question to be answered. This
is also exactly why I dont think you can back up anything you are saying.
If you cant answer a simply legitimate question then at least say so and
dont make up sentances for me.. Everyone of us can skim back through the
followups to see 'clearly' that I have never said I 'dislike' gay men. I
simply and clearly have stated that I can accept people of any sexuality
but dont have to personally like, or want to do what you do. Even within
heterosexual relationships there are 'styles' I dont like.. for example if
some chick pulled out a friggin whip and tried to beat my ass with it, I
would surely tell her to leave.. I DO understand.. If you cant make a
retional comment about my statements and questions then I would say YOUR
the one in 'fear'.. fear of not being accepted. I as a person dont have
to do anymore than acknowledge (sp?) your situation, accept it as I have
so clearly done so, and get on with my life.. I dont give a shit either
way what you do. You really have to learn to accept yourself then maybe
you can accept MY views.. because we simply disagree in no way allows you
to justify anything you've said about my comments or me being uneducated.
Now I would restate my questions but I dont think you are going to bother
answering them anyway because I think that when it really comes down to
it, you dont have any answers. Well I do have answers for the way I feel,
so if you feel like answering my questions then you can go back about 3
post and answer them. Bye.
Peter Nogalo
> You seem to use the term homophobic quite liberally. Do you have any clue
> as to its meaning, or perhaps is it simply a word invented by the homosexual
> community. You just slap the label on to anyone who dares to disagree
> with your same sex practices. I do not fear you, but I do find homosexual
> sex acts quite disgusting. Say what you will.
Of course it is a word invented by the homosexual community. Twenty-five
years ago when the second-wave of the homosexual rights movement began to
gain speed there was a real need for new words to describe ideas that
until that point had previously been censored.
At that point point in time the vast majority of heterosexuals say nothing
wrong with their negative feelings towards gays and lesbians. That being
the case they certainly would not create a new word to describe these
historical feelings. Hence it was left-up to the gay and lesbian community
to do so.
The word itself is not entirely correct in the literal sense. When a gang
of thugs beats the shit out of a lone gay man, does it fear him? Probablly
not, yet we still call it homophobia and most people know what we mean. The
word itself most accurately means fear and loathing of homosexuality in
others and same-sex feelings in one's self.
As for you being disgusted by homosexual acts, I would argue that there
are no such things as homosexual acts except that there are taking place
between people of the same sex. What I mean to say is that everything the
gays and lesbians do sexually; straight people or least alot of them do also.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: ::
:: I'm a role model because I'm a damn good person. And if that is ::
:: not enough, then they can lick my ass...Sandra Bernhard. ::
:: ::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Nogalo
Carleton University
Email address: pno...@chat.carleton.ca
---------------------------------------------------------------------
alex chesser
Sarah Isaacs (sis...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > > going on. What are the key issues? It isn't me! What it is is the idea
>> of
> > It isn't an issue. You are making it one.
> Homophobia isn't an issue? Take your head out of the sand, Publicover!
> Is that why homosexuals still aren't intilted to legal benefits?
> Ha!
i thought our government was working on this as we speak ... isn't there a
bill that re-defines marriage or includes "domestic partnerships" or
something like that?
alex chesser
Peter Nogalo (pno...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> As for you being disgusted by homosexual acts, I would argue that there
> are no such things as homosexual acts except that there are taking place
> between people of the same sex. What I mean to say is that everything the
> gays and lesbians do sexually; straight people or least alot of them do also.
well, in trev's defence, i have a buddy who finds straight sex to be
disgusting ... messy and slimy ect... he also thinks it's boring because women
just don't know what to do with his tool (wierdest thing was, he was
getting married ... at least i didn't understand, she was HOT too) but
whatever ... i just re-read your post and realized that i'm talking about
something that's unrelated to what you just said so ...
cya
-chesser
Allan Cybulskie
Brian Publicover (bpub...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Allan Cybulskie (acyb...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > I would assume that gay persons are just as "horny" as anyone else -- and
> > haven't you ever been hit on by a guy in a bar? Same thing applies ...
> Which does not necessarily mean that they want to hit on you.
> Have you ever been hit on by a guy in a bar? If you're not interested,
> just politely decline.
And this is relevant to what I was responding to because ... ?
I was responding to the point that it was unreasonable to assume that a
gay person MIGHT hit on the original poster (not Kia). The point was
raised that to assume that, you had to buy into the "myth" that
homosexuals were exceptionally "horny" individuals. I pointed out that
the true situation is that they are just as "horny" as anyone else, and
that sometimes people who are attracted to people hit on them in bars.
Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that it is possible that the
original poster could get hit on in a bar, without relying on the "myth"
that was raised earlier ...
shannon salisbury
Aaron Merifield (amer...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > :This is where everyone looses me. Why do you think Im 'uneducated' about
> > :homosexuality? What would it take.. me being with another guy? Is that
> followups to see 'clearly' that I have never said I 'dislike' gay men. I
> simply and clearly have stated that I can accept people of any sexuality
Your "acceptance" is admirable, really, Aaron, but I have a question for
you - and for everyone else reading this:
Is it common, when seeing the words "same sex sex" to think of two men?
Even if the original poster was not a man? When I see these words, a
plethora of images pop into my head, some of which involve men, but not
all. I find it interesting that in debates such as these, queer women
don't show up too much. I have my own thoughts on why this happens...
BTW, this might not be directly related to Aaron, but to whomever asked
Sarah if she felt disgusted about other sex sex (*GASP* I'm implying that
there are more than two genders!!!!): why the assumption that one can be
attracted to only one type of person? Can one only like stawberry or
vanilla, or is it possible to just like ice cream, no matter what flavour?
-shannon, again thrust into the role of PSA writer...
Brian Publicover
Distribution:
shannon salisbury (ssal...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Is it common, when seeing the words "same sex sex" to think of two men?
> Even if the original poster was not a man? When I see these words, a
> plethora of images pop into my head, some of which involve men, but not
> all. I find it interesting that in debates such as these, queer women
> don't show up too much. I have my own thoughts on why this happens...
An interesting point.
Many guys who are "disgusted" by the thought of two guys having
sex are often the same ones who would wank it to the thought of two women
getting it on. It's a double standard, and it's unfortunate that there
seems to be more of a stigma attached to male gay sex than there is to
female gay sex. One need look no farther than mainstream pornographic
publications for an example of this: many of these magazines tend to
feature lesbian situations because it is assumed that the target audience
would find this appealing... yet the same magazines don't feature
bisexual/homosexual situations involving men. The reasons for this are
obvious: the majority of the readers are probably heterosexual men. In this
example, the lesbians are "acceptable" because men are turned on by the
images. Why should one be better or worse than the other? Just an example
of how the media probably contributes to perpetuating stereotypes and
ignorance.
Allan Cybulskie
shannon salisbury (ssal...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Aaron Merifield (amer...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > > :This is where everyone looses me. Why do you think Im 'uneducated' about
> > > :homosexuality? What would it take.. me being with another guy? Is that
> > followups to see 'clearly' that I have never said I 'dislike' gay men. I
> > simply and clearly have stated that I can accept people of any sexuality
> Your "acceptance" is admirable, really, Aaron, but I have a question for
> you - and for everyone else reading this:
> Is it common, when seeing the words "same sex sex" to think of two men?
> Even if the original poster was not a man? When I see these words, a
> plethora of images pop into my head, some of which involve men, but not
> all. I find it interesting that in debates such as these, queer women
> don't show up too much. I have my own thoughts on why this happens...
Personally, no image really comes to mind. However, it would be
reasonable to assume that men might tend to think of male-male (being men,
it most closely relates to them) and women to female-female. Don't know
if this is actually the case or not ...
> BTW, this might not be directly related to Aaron, but to whomever asked
> Sarah if she felt disgusted about other sex sex (*GASP* I'm implying that
> there are more than two genders!!!!): why the assumption that one can be
> attracted to only one type of person? Can one only like stawberry or
> vanilla, or is it possible to just like ice cream, no matter what flavour?
The type of person you describe is a bisexual. It is not a huge
assumption to ask someone whom you believe is homosexual (or heterosexual)
if the type of sexual contact that does not attract them makes then react
in a certain negative way towards it ...
alex chesser
Distribution:
shannon salisbury (ssal...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Is it common, when seeing the words "same sex sex" to think of two men?
> Even if the original poster was not a man? When I see these words, a
> plethora of images pop into my head, some of which involve men, but not
> all. I find it interesting that in debates such as these, queer women
> don't show up too much. I have my own thoughts on why this happens...
yeah, i'm used to 2 females going at it by now (strip clubs, skin mags,
downloading porn, ect...) i still don't see two men very often AND it's in
the media more as male homosexuality and men dressing up as women more
often than vice versa (more sensational i geuss ... wigstock, pricilla,
ru paul vs. KD Lang, melissa etheridge)
`ats what i think
alex chesser
Brian Publicover (bpub...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> example, the lesbians are "acceptable" because men are turned on by the
> images. Why should one be better or worse than the other? Just an example
> of how the media probably contributes to perpetuating stereotypes and
> ignorance.
interestingly enough, physically, women (in studies) get just as turned on
by watching "rod and piston" style porno as men but they report disgust
they (women) show equal pupil dialations to pictures of naked members of
the opposite sex as men
this was in a book called "manwatching" by Desmond Morris and i thought it
was really neat so there you go
Andrea Toole
Edited and reposted b/c of embarrasing typos and missing letters:
> Brian Publicover (bpub...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Many guys who are "disgusted" by the thought of two guys having
> sex are often the same ones who would wank it to the thought of two women
> getting it on. It's a double standard, and it's unfortunate that there
> seems to be more of a stigma attached to male gay sex than there is to
> female gay sex. One need look no farther than mainstream pornographic
> publications for an example of this: many of these magazines tend to
> feature lesbian situations because it is assumed that the target audience
> would find this appealing... yet the same magazines don't feature
> bisexual/homosexual situations involving men. The reasons for this are
> obvious: the majority of the readers are probably heterosexual men. In this
> images. Why should one be better or worse than the other? Just an example
> of how the media probably contributes to perpetuating stereotypes and
> ignorance.
An interesting, relevent, well thought out argument. I give it an A.
It's true, most men are turned on by the thought of lesbians. In fact,
when on the topic of threesomes, most men fantasize about 3 women to one
man instead of the other way around. Then again, I think that (and it's
only my OPINION so I'm not claiming to be right) that women are more
tolerant of homosexuality than meN (be it man-man or woman-woman).
Off to study,
a.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrea Toole
Email address: ato...@chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander Haird
> shannon salisbury (ssal...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > Is it common, when seeing the words "same sex sex" to think of two men?
> > Even if the original poster was not a man? When I see these words, a
> > plethora of images pop into my head, some of which involve men, but not
> > all. I find it interesting that in debates such as these, queer women
> > don't show up too much. I have my own thoughts on why this happens...
> An interesting point.
> Many guys who are "disgusted" by the thought of two guys having
> sex are often the same ones who would wank it to the thought of two women
> getting it on. It's a double standard, and it's unfortunate that there
> seems to be more of a stigma attached to male gay sex than there is to
> female gay sex. One need look no farther than mainstream pornographic
> publications for an example of this: many of these magazines tend to
> feature lesbian situations because it is assumed that the target audience
> would find this appealing... yet the same magazines don't feature
> bisexual/homosexual situations involving men. The reasons for this are
> obvious: the majority of the readers are probably heterosexual men. In this
> example, the lesbians are "acceptable" because men are turned on by the
> images. Why should one be better or worse than the other? Just an example
> of how the media probably contributes to perpetuating stereotypes and
> ignorance.
i can't believe i'm saying it, but Publicover has a good point. This whole
posting has really bugged me. i hate the fact that it has to be "us vs
them". i think that is the clearest illustration that society has not
accepted homosexuality. some straight people think it's o.k. to say "gays
are disgusting..blah blah...i'm tired of hearing it..blah blah...". it's
just a different way two people love each other. i do understand how
people can be like this though, because i was also once like that. i don't
buy the bullshit line "i have lots of gay friends...", cuz i know if they
DID have gay friends, they would relax. i was mr. homophobe until a close
friend came out. at first, all the "i just don't agree with it/keep it out
of my face/blah blah" arguments happened, but i know that it wasn't ME
talking, it was my father, my mother, and church (egad!) talking. it took
a while, but i realized that she was still the same person she always was,
she just doesn't dig guys. so what? i don't dig guys either, and she never
gave ME a hard time about it. why do people have to make it an issue? cuz
hetero's don't get the shit kicked out of them. and the more people
"disagree" with homosexuality, the more other people will think it's o.k.
to disagree with the way one person loves another person. and assholes
will continue to beat up and degrade "queers". so what does it accomplish?
people should take a closer look at WHY they "disagree" with it. i would
venture to say that the vast majority can be traced to parental
"guidance" or religion. parents are unfortunately difficult to deal with,
because they are the product of their society. it's not right, just
explainable. religion...well, don't start me. i'll just say that what kind
of god (God, whatever) would make one in ten people homosexual, then
condemn it. logic should be taking over here (not fear). so that's my two
cents. flame away, (oh no, that might make you a "flamer"). or at least
forward your opinion. a useless post has turned into a very worthwhile
discussion.
-Alex
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Grandaddy Chooch "when i return to her i find
Carleton University flowers of evil in my mind
dancing with fire on the edge
remembering all of what she said"
The Tea Party
Email address: aha...@chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wiwchar
> > You seem to use the term homophobic quite liberally. Do you have any clue
> > as to its meaning, or perhaps is it simply a word invented by the homosexual
> > community. You just slap the label on to anyone who dares to disagree
> > with your same sex practices.
> The word itself is not entirely correct in the literal sense. When a gang
> of thugs beats the shit out of a lone gay man, does it fear him? Probablly
> not, yet we still call it homophobia and most people know what we mean. The
> word itself most accurately means fear and loathing of homosexuality in
> others and same-sex feelings in one's self.
Unfortunately Peter it is not the individual they fear but what the
individual represents. In a rather savage manner these people are
expressing their fear of something they don't or won't try to understand.
So yes, their reaction, in the instance you provide, is one based in
homophobia.
> As for you being disgusted by homosexual acts, I would argue that there
> are no such things as homosexual acts except that there are taking place
> between people of the same sex. What I mean to say is that everything the
> gays and lesbians do sexually; straight people or least alot of them do also.
But, Peter, you have just argued your self into a corner, the idea that
heterosexual people would involve themselves in a sexual act with an
individual of the same sex then makes that act a homosexual act. It is not
the physical act itself that defines hetero or homo sexual acts but
rather it is your present choice of partner(s) that defines whether the act is
hetero, homo, or bi sexual. (and because this post could use the humour,if
you add sheep then it would be a "try"sexual act because that person would
try anything)
In this way the a person could be attracted to the idea of certain sexual
acts with other people, but reject another group from this category because
they can not imagine enjoying these acts with members of the second group.
Oh, here's a 'fer instance, I know a couple of gay men that would not
enjoy and have shuddered at the thought of themselves having sex with a woman,
just as I could not enjoy a sexual encounter with a man, and yes when
picturing that concept I do find my self revolted. This does not in any
way make me or my friends "bad" people, nor does it make me homophobic or them
heterophobic. As an experiment find out, on the sly, what your friends find
highly distasteful, then mention it to them. There is a good chance that
one or two of them will be disgusted and someone may even shudder, but this
does not mean that they fear the experience or activity.
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> :: ::
> :: I'm a role model because I'm a damn good person. And if that is ::
> :: not enough, then they can lick my ass...Sandra Bernhard. ::
> :: ::
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Every absurdity has a champion to defend it, for error is always
talkative.
Oliver Goldsmith
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wiwchar
Carleton University
Email address: mwiw...@chat.carleton.ca
Andy Yee
Robert Brando (rbr...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Christopher Bird (cb...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > (and have been flattered the one time I was propositioned by a guy.
> > Interested, no. Flattered, yeah)
> So what did your dad say anyways? ;)
hahahahahahhahhahahahhahahhaha
just had to laugh. hadn't heard that one in a long time.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rob Brando
> Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
> Email address: rbr...@chat.carleton.ca
> WWW HomePage: http://chat.carleton.ca/~rbrando
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott D. Parker
Andrea Toole (ato...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> It's true, most men are turned on by the thought of lesbians. In fact,
> when on the topic of threesomes, most men fantasize about 3 women to one
> man instead of the other way around. Then again, I think that (and it's
Umm thats a FOURsome andrea ;] (Hope she isnt studying for a math exam ;])
__________________________________________________________________________
|\-------------------------------------/||\-------------------------------/|
|| Name: Scott D. K. Parker / GreeBo |||| 57 000 000 Sites and there's ||
|| Address: sdpa...@chat.carleton.ca |||| |\| U T ]-[ | |\| (0) |\| !! ||
|/-------------------------------------\||/-------------------------------\|
|(((((((((((( http://chat.carleton.ca/~sdparker ))))))))))))|
Aaron Merifield
Alexander Haird (aha...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> i hate the fact that it has to be "us vs them". i think that is the
> clearest illustration that society has not accepted homosexuality. some
Who said its "us vs them"? I really think some people here should go back
and read all the followups because this is exactly not what people have
been saying. Yet these other posts keep appearing where you say you
havent been accepted. Strange. It starts to make reading these posts a
waste of time. Do we have to keep argueing the same points over and over?
Nothing gets accomplished that way.
> people should take a closer look at WHY they "disagree" with it. i would
> venture to say that the vast majority can be traced to parental
> "guidance" or religion. parents are unfortunately difficult to deal with,
Personally I have reasons for my 'whys' but I do agree that if some people
dont, or havent thought about it then they should, especially before
posting.
> of god (God, whatever) would make one in ten people homosexual, then
> condemn it. logic should be taking over here (not fear). so that's my two
But, saying anything on this topic would mean you think there is a god.
Of course though if there isnt, then this is totally meaningless. Since
you cant prove there is a god, and I cant prove there isnt, lets forget
about that point because either way, it really doesnt matter anyway.
Scott D. Parker
> seems to be more of a stigma attached to male gay sex than there is to
> female gay sex. One need look no farther than mainstream pornographic
I think you will also find THIS difference.. Gay women, although different
in their orientation.. still act/speak pretty much like women.. well. From
those I have met MYSELF.. I could be wrong.. but I don't think so... On the
other hand.. many gay MEN act very effeminate.. (from the ones I have
met).. so therefore they stand out as "different" and thus the stigma
attached to them. I may have this perspective because the gay/lesbian
people I meet are comfortable with what their orientation is.. and thats
cool.. but they tend to be more obvious about it (possibly?) than others
who are not as comfortable. Brians point about the wide acceptance of men
of lesbian encouters as "erotic" is a good one though =) And very true.
Alexander Haird
> > i hate the fact that it has to be "us vs them". i think that is the
> > clearest illustration that society has not accepted homosexuality. some
> Who said its "us vs them"? I really think some people here should go back
> and read all the followups because this is exactly not what people have
> been saying. Yet these other posts keep appearing where you say you
> havent been accepted. Strange. It starts to make reading these posts a
you?? i'm straight.
> waste of time. Do we have to keep argueing the same points over and over?
> Nothing gets accomplished that way.
> > people should take a closer look at WHY they "disagree" with it. i would
> > venture to say that the vast majority can be traced to parental
> > "guidance" or religion. parents are unfortunately difficult to deal with,
> Personally I have reasons for my 'whys' but I do agree that if some people
> dont, or havent thought about it then they should, especially before
> posting.
really? why don't you tell everyone.
> > of god (God, whatever) would make one in ten people homosexual, then
> > condemn it. logic should be taking over here (not fear). so that's my two
> But, saying anything on this topic would mean you think there is a god.
> Of course though if there isnt, then this is totally meaningless. Since
> you cant prove there is a god, and I cant prove there isnt, lets forget
> about that point because either way, it really doesnt matter anyway.
actually, i don't believe in god...
Andrea Toole
Scott D. Parker (sdpa...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Andrea Toole (ato...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > It's true, most men are turned on by the thought of lesbians. In fact,
> > when on the topic of threesomes, most men fantasize about 3 women to one
> > man instead of the other way around. Then again, I think that (and it's
> Umm thats a FOURsome andrea ;] (Hope she isnt studying for a math exam ;])
Uh, I meant THREESOME w/ TWO women. Funny thing is, I found a typo in my
original post the next day, did a quick followup/edit and cancelled the
original. Missed this unfortunate error.
YAY! Just finished my last exam!
Aaron Merifield
Alexander Haird (aha...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Aaron Merifield (amer...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > Alexander Haird (aha...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> you?? i'm straight.
Me too.. i meant just in general.
> > Personally I have reasons for my 'whys' but I do agree that if some people
> > dont, or havent thought about it then they should, especially before
> > posting.
> really? why don't you tell everyone.
Hmm.. I may be one of the only people who have. Ive got a few long posts
up in the 20's and up range.. feel free to (re)read them.
> > But, saying anything on this topic would mean you think there is a god.
> > Of course though if there isnt, then this is totally meaningless. Since
> > you cant prove there is a god, and I cant prove there isnt, lets forget
> > about that point because either way, it really doesnt matter anyway.
> actually, i don't believe in god...
Neither do I, but my point was that it doesnt matter either way.
Chris Macleod
Sarah Isaacs (sis...@chat.carleton.ca) spewed blah blah blah...
[all snipped -- you've seen it fifty times]
Did you learn nothing from ndobler? You have a worthy cause, but why bait
homophobic guys with undescended testicles like jlabonte? You're just
descending to his level, and alienating all of the people who would agree
with you. If you are a lesbian/bisexual, then be proud of that, but don't
flaunt it just to get a rise out of people. You'll convince no one that way.
Kristoporov Makleodovich
1,324st in line for the Russian throne
Bastard son of Anastasia and Brian Orser
THE LAST OF THE ROMANOVS
execute...@chatz.carletonski.cccp
Michael Gallagher
Scott D. Parker (sdpa...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> I think you will also find THIS difference.. Gay women, although different
> in their orientation.. still act/speak pretty much like women.. well. From
> those I have met MYSELF.. I could be wrong.. but I don't think so... On the
> other hand.. many gay MEN act very effeminate.. (from the ones I have
> met).. so therefore they stand out as "different" and thus the stigma
> attached to them. I may have this perspective because the gay/lesbian
> people I meet are comfortable with what their orientation is.. and thats
> cool.. but they tend to be more obvious about it (possibly?) than others
> who are not as comfortable. Brians point about the wide acceptance of men
> of lesbian encouters as "erotic" is a good one though =) And very true.
This is a huge generalization Scott, and it's this attitude that
perpetuates homophobia. Yes, some gay men act very effeminate, but to
assume that all effeminate men are gay is absurd. Also, there are many,
maybe even most gay men, do not act effeminate. The stigma is the problem
for those who don't want to come out of the closet, because they'll be
labelled as the floppy wristed pansies that everybody thinks they should
be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Gallagher "I was dressed for success
Carleton University But success it never came
mgal...@chat.carleton.ca And I'm the only one who laughs
bh...@FreeNet.carleton.ca At your jokes when they are so bad
And your jokes are always bad
But they're not as bad as this" Pavement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jamie Labonte
Sarah Isaacs (sis...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > Sarah Isaacs (sis...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote: > > samesexsex.
> > Sarah its people like you that GIVE homosexual people a bad name. You
> > arn't promoting understanding and acceptance.. your just posting little
> > aggravating tidbits of mindless tripe.. and frankly, I don't care what
> > your orientation is.. you're just annoying.
> You are so angry! Why is that? I would have never thought it would affect
> people like this. I am sincerely sorry if I have made people feel
> uncomfortable by my light humour. Wow, I never knew there were so many
> "anal" people in this world ....
That wouldn't be the label I'd pick for the heterosexuals, Sarah. Think
that one through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ironic isn't it, Smithers? This lowly band of slack drawn troglodytes
has cost me my election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would
be the one to go to jail! That's democracy for you!" --Montgomery Burns
(Or was that Pat Buchanon...?)
Email address: jlab...@chat.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jamie Labonte
Sarah Isaacs (sis...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > Sarah,
> > Once again your ignorance shines through. Like a good number of
> > non-homophobic members of the Carleton Community, I find that the only
> > reason you post these is to simply cause shit.
> > For once in your meaningless life, why don't you attempt to back
> > up your staements with some sort of legitimate fact. You seem to have a
> > cause, which is splendid, and a commendable one at that, but you demean it
> > by uteering such jibberish and you actually seem to perpetuate homophobia.
> > Instead o screaming and getting into people's faces, why don't you try, as
> > difficult as it may be, to utter something intelligent and discussable.
> > The idea of same sex sex does not shock me, nor disgust me, but
> > you petty attempt to get your name out there does.
> ***Meaningless life? Do you know me? I thought only I knew how
> meaningless my life was! Gee whiz, with that in mind, I think I will go
> hang myself. Afterall, the Great One has quoted my life to be
> meaningless. Good bye to all ....
> ***You are homophobic and to any rational person on this planet you proved
> yourself to be just that.
THere's a difference between being rational and being able to rationalize
anything that comes down the pike. YOu my dear reflect the latter Not the
former.
Jamie Labonte
trand.ccs.carleton.ca>
Distribution
> there opinions count.
> What am I trying accomplish here? Actually, not much I guess. I just
> find it interesting that just by writing "samesexsex" twice on a fun
> thread can cause so much anger and hostility within a group of people. I
Yeah! It is fun. Watch this one ,Sarah! "Die foggot die!".
(That's german for "The faggot the!")
Jamie Labonte
Andrew Metcalfe (amet...@superior.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Aaron Merifield (amer...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > I do 'accept' the fact.. I just dont agree with it. I think this is what
> > 'you' dont understand. My girl friend doesnt like tomatos and I do, that
> > doesnt mean I dont accept her. You are uptight and insecure with
> > yourself. I am very accepting of people and their views. Maybe we just
> > have different views of the word homophobic. I would have to say I am
> > homophobic because I shudder at the thought of a guy coming on to me. That
> > by no means says that I dont accept people for who they are, or says that I
> > am discriminatory.. its just not for me. But then again, I shudder at the
> > thought of eating liver too..
> When you say things like 'shudder' and 'disgusting', they just don't mesh
> very well with "it's not for me".
> I can take some personal experience from this. A while ago I went to
> ladies night at Crystals in Hull. I had a 65 year old woman hitting on
> me. I shudder at the thought of that ever happening before, because it
> completely disgusted me. I have a strong stereotype against going out
> with a 65 year old woman, she looked like a prune! Now, a while ago I was
> hit on by a guy, which was alright considering that I was in a gay bar.
> Did it disgust me? Not at all, I simply wasn't interested.
> Whenever someone tells me that they're "disgusted, revolted, or I shudder"
> at homosexuality, it tells me that that person is lacking in
> understanding, and acceptance. You may accept that person "I have a lot
> of gay friends", but you certainly do not accept that persons sexuality.
I don't know about anybody else, Andrew but I "Shudder" at the thought of
a guy hitting on you too!
Scott D. Parker
Michael Gallagher (mgal...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> Scott D. Parker (sdpa...@chat.carleton.ca) wrote:
> > well. From those I have met MYSELF.. I could be wrong.. but I don't
> > (from the ones I have met)
> > people I meet are comfortable with what their orientation is.. and thats
> > cool.. but they tend to be more obvious about it (possibly?) than others
> This is a huge generalization Scott, and it's this attitude that
Hello?! Did you actually READ that post?? Do you notice a WHOLE STRING of
qualifiers? If it were a generalization I would have used words like "ALL"
and "THEY" and would not have used words like POSSIBLY or SOME. I was
pointing out WHY gay men have the stigma they do.. and you proceeded to
agree to everything I had said, yet trying to argue with me at the same
time?? Qui passa?!