Who owns the IP RIGHTS to the CAT source code?

[B.Person]

I would like to put a CAT like system on a newer hardware platform,
with low cost, mass appeal.

Getting a Netbook for Xmas, I looked at x86 / IA32-64 low level code
structure again. I want to convert the CAT's 68k low level stuff into
native processor code. Sick I know. I like being close to the metal,
I want this to be fun. Looking at the x86/IA stuff really made my
stomach ache. So I put the idea away. Now I've found an ARM based
SBC platform; the Raspberry Pi. My interest is back.

THE QUESTION: Who owns the IP RIGHTS to the CAT source code?

I've heard it two ways; it has been released to Public Domain (except
for the word dictionary), and Canon still owns it.

Who can help give a verifiable answer, or a pointer / lead to the
answer I need?

[Sandy]

I can persue this issue if you like.

Sent from my iPhone

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[B.Person]

Yes, please.

[private msg also sent to Sandy]

[Charles Springer]

The Pi isn't real yet, and isn't likely to be as advertised. Plus way more powerful than you need for a Cat.

-- Charlie

[dwight elvey]

Hi
 First, I would only do low level code for those things that absolutly
needed it. While this seems like you'd want to low level the same
as was originally done, I'm afraid that the project will get lost in
the fiddle-faddle of doing code for no reason.
 The current day processors are so much faster that most of the reason
for doing code has been lost. The only thing I might code natively
is the search.
 I wonder if there is a public domain spell checker available
to replace the Canon ROM.
 Dwight
 

> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:08:01 -0700
> Subject: [Canon Cat] Who owns the IP RIGHTS to the CAT source code?
> From: bruce....@gmail.com
> To: cano...@googlegroups.com

[B.Person]

On the question of:

>  I wonder if there is a public domain spell checker available
> to replace the Canon ROM.

From the research I've done so far, it is the "Word sets of Data" IP
that
belonged to someone else, and should not be used without license.

Yes, there are a number of Word sets of Data under Linux GPL
available.
Multilingual checking has crossed my mind. Who wants to type in
Russian?

As for doing it with Low-Level ARM, it is for my continued education
and
brain exercises of doing another processor. Processors are like
peanuts and
potato chips, once you start, it is really hard to stop.
(Yet another Processor under the belt!
KLA10, PDP-11, LSI-11, VAX, 6502, Z80, 8085, 68000, 8051, PIC, ...)

If it was just to get it done on CoTS hardware, I would do it for a
x86 Netbook in C.
I may still, after doing the ARM for the Raspberry Pi.

Thanks for your thoughts and concerns, keep the positive ones
coming.
Unless the source code was documented as being released to Public
Domain,
it will be a private exercise between me and my future Raspberry Pi.

[Jonathan Gevaryahu]

Speaking of which, while the canon roms are under canon copyright still, I'd really like to get a look at them.

-- 
Jonathan Gevaryahu AKA Lord Nightmare
jgeva...@gmail.com
jgeva...@hotmail.com

[John Wiley]

For one, you said a Cat-Like system. Have you checked out Forth OS 1.0 and 2.0
they are both for x86 processors. Since you would have to so re-write
the Cat Rom Code so much to be able to port it over to the newer
platform, why not just start from scratch? Now, you would have to
decide which GPL or version of the "free" forth
programming codes to use (good luck, there are more of those than you think!),
I might suggest one take off named "Reva", it is one of the newer
forth based programming languages.

Canon itself clings tightly to it's ownership of all of the Cat
code--especially everything to do with the ROM. I found that out
myself years ago.

John W.

[Charles Springer]

If you want to do it on ARM9 or ARM11 I will give either of these for cost and a 7" 800x480 LCD, or a VGA adapter.

http://andahammer.com/mini70-sdk/

http://andahammer.com/mini6410-sdk7/

Finalize the hardware and use the modules

http://andahammer.com/micro2440-oem/

http://andahammer.com/t6410oem/   (gotta remember to change that back to English).

Really, there is plenty of power here to emulate the Canon Cat. 400 MHz ARM9 or 533MHz ARM11 with big fast caches should emulate a 68000 (what was it, 5MHz?) with ease. The I/O and video and all that could be emulated pretty easily. You could convert to native code in small pieces. Don't try those LPCs and other little ARM7s and variations because the project will out grow them. Beagle Board and kin have not caught on with volume buyers. I use SOCs in mass production for phones and tablets giving low costs, high performance, and lots of support.

-- Charlie

[Sandy]

For what it is worth I have a copy of tForth for an 8086 and it runs on XP in a window.  I have a zip file with the tForth and documentation ready to send it to anyone.

Terry Holmes, the author of tForth, has released it into the public domain so no worries there.

BTW, tForth is the Forth dialect we used at IA and is contained in the cat.

Sandy

Sent from my iPhone

[Jonathan Gevaryahu]

Oooh, that sounds useful. Can I get a copy?

-- 
Jonathan Gevaryahu AKA Lord Nightmare
jgeva...@gmail.com
jgeva...@hotmail.com

[Charles Springer]

Hey Sandy, I would love a copy. I never used it much being mostly on the hardware side and as those interface diagrams you guys were always working on got bigger and bigger, I was glad I wasn't in on it.

By the way, I found Apple banners from the 1989 reunion. I took them from Woz's table when the dinner was over and I saw everyone leaving without them. They have been in a portfolio between layers of IAI drawings since about 1990. I googled several variations and found one at the silicon valley museum and it is wrinkled and bent. Were you there? I would like to find someone who took pictures at the event. I was with Bana.

-- Charlie

[Sandy]

I am happy to send the zip file to anyone who wants it.  So, of course.

I will do it Wednesday sometime.

Sandy

Sent from my iPhone

[John B]

OK, I forget, how does one put a file up for general download by
anyone who wants it? I know Google stopped letting files be uploaded
and kept in the groups but where can you do that. In Google docs?

I will be happy to share the tForth zip file with all who want it but
I would rather make it generally available as it is in the public
domain.

Sandy
===

On Oct 19, 1:30 am, Sandy <sandy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am happy to send the zip file to anyone who wants it.  So, of course.
>
> I will do it Wednesday sometime.
>
> Sandy
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

> On Oct 19, 2011, at 0:38, Jonathan Gevaryahu <jgevary...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Oooh, that sounds useful. Can I get a copy?
>
> > On 10/19/2011 2:14 AM, Sandy wrote:
>
> >> For what it is worth I have a copy of tForth for an 8086 and it runs on XP in a window.  I have a zip file with the tForth and documentation ready to send it to anyone.
>
> >> Terry Holmes, the author of tForth, has released it into the public domain so no worries there.
>
> >> BTW, tForth is the Forth dialect we used at IA and is contained in the cat.
>
> >> Sandy
>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
>

> >> On Oct 18, 2011, at 20:28, Charles Springer <charles.regni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> If you want to do it on ARM9 or ARM11 I will give either of these for cost and a 7" 800x480 LCD, or a VGA adapter.
>
> >>>http://andahammer.com/mini70-sdk/
>
> >>>http://andahammer.com/mini6410-sdk7/
>
> >>> Finalize the hardware and use the modules
>
> >>>http://andahammer.com/micro2440-oem/
>
> >>>http://andahammer.com/t6410oem/  (gotta remember to change that back to English).
>
> >>> Really, there is plenty of power here to emulate the Canon Cat. 400 MHz ARM9 or 533MHz ARM11 with big fast caches should emulate a 68000 (what was it, 5MHz?) with ease. The I/O and video and all that could be emulated pretty easily. You could convert to native code in small pieces. Don't try those LPCs and other little ARM7s and variations because the project will out grow them. Beagle Board and kin have not caught on with volume buyers. I use SOCs in mass production for phones and tablets giving low costs, high performance, and lots of support.
>
> >>> -- Charlie
>

> >>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/canon-cat?hl=en.

>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canon Cat" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to cano...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canon-cat+...@googlegroups.com.

> >>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/canon-cat?hl=en.

> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canon Cat" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to cano...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canon-cat+...@googlegroups.com.

> >> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/canon-cat?hl=en.

>
> > --
> > Jonathan Gevaryahu AKA Lord Nightmare

> > jgevary...@gmail.com
> > jgevary...@hotmail.com

[Jonathan Gevaryahu]

You could stick it on sendspace or something and paste the link here.

jgeva...@gmail.com
jgeva...@hotmail.com

[Sandy Bumgarner]

OK, didn't know about sendspace, thanks.

Someone please try this link, download, expand, and run mytforth but
not in windows 7 for sure. only works in XP as far as I know.

Sandy
===

--
John O. 'Sandy' Bumgarner
KI6UOQ

[Sandy Bumgarner]

Whoops, forgot the link!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/o78o0x

Sandy
===

[B.Person]

Link works.
Download process worked.
Need to test on my Win-XP machine.

[B.Person]

On Oct 18, 7:58 pm, John Wiley <jfgun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ,,,

> Canon itself clings tightly to it's ownership of all of the Cat
> code--especially everything to do with the ROM.  

> I found that out myself years ago.
> John W.

John,
Thank you for the info on other Forths. I'll add them to my list
of research issues.

On the matter of IP ownership. Would you share with me a copy
of those Canon CAT IP ownership claim documents?

Bruce

[B.Person]

> Link works.
> Download process worked.
> Need to test on my Win-XP machine.

Just tested the Downloaded EXE on my Win-XP machine.

Getting the following message:
******************************************************************************
An error has occurred while downloading software.
Please verify your Internet connection and Press "Yes" to continue.
******************************************************************************

Steps I took.
1) Transferred the EXE file to a USB flash drive from my networked
Windows 7 machine.
2) Created a folder [tFORTH] on a non-networked, so isolated, HP
machine using an AMD Athlon 64 3300+, which dual boots to Win-XP and
Linux.
3) Running Windows XP
4) Put the EXE into the tFORTH folder.
5) Double Clicked on the EXE

6) Getting the above message.

Does the tFORTH-Setup.EXE need Internet access?

Did a McAfee/AT&T virus scan; No reported issues.

IDEAS anyone.

[Sandy Bumgarner]

tForth knows nothing about the internet. If I send the zip file
directly to you (at your gmail) maybe that will work.

Sandy

[B.Person]

Went and Down-Loaded again the file offered by Sandy.

This time it is a ZIP formatted file. I guess the EXE was for
the person UpLoading.

Opened the ZIP, looks more like what I expected to find.

Now trying it on my Win-XP machine.

[B.Person]

Thank you for the offer of the Direct eMail. Not needed.

The ZIP file contents works as I expected it to work.
I have not a clue what that 1st file, the EXE, was about.
Those EXEs are now Erased.

Thanks again for your efforts.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/canon-cat?hl=en.