Building a Swyft

[Jason Gullickson]

Good afternoon,

I'm very interested in the idea of building a new device in the spirit of the Swyft.  I read Raskin's "The Humane Interface" years ago and have since grown to appreciate the Swyft/Cat/etc. approach to user interface.

I understand that Canon holds the IP for some (all?) of these devices but I am wondering what is available for examination?  I know the devices themselves are hard to track down however I have heard that the ROMs, etc. may be available somewhere; is this true?

I have read some of the technical documentation available and I'd like to know what more can be found; is any of the original FORTH source for any of these devices accessible?

In a nutshell, I'm trying to track down every scrap I can find on the subject to determine the best route forward toward re-creating the best aspects of these devices and for me step one is to gather as complete an understanding of what has been done so far.

Thank-you for setting up this group, reading the existing posts has been fascinating and I look forward to any additional insight you can provide.

Jason

[Jon Sharp]

Jason,

I'll jump in here, as I've had some of my own ideas about this. (See recent "Crazy Idea" thread in group archives) Others have also explored the possibilities of a resurrection of the Swyft, be it a port, emulation, or completely new software built designed around Swyft-y ideas, each in conjunction with a variety of hardware ideas. Some ideas emphasize the hardware ("new device") aspects, presumably to better support the concept of the keyboard-user-interface. Others approaches would be more software-focused. The group recently had to relocate the file repository, and I can't recall that link at present, but you should find much of what you seek there. I'm still rather fond of the idea of patching the Cat firmware source to run inside of Open Firmware on an older PowerBook. The base system functionality could be exposed, with the potential to replace/add to things like the serial port code with some basic network routines. Anyway, if someone else could point you to the new file repository, you'll have a bit of reading to do. ;)

--
Jon

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[Jason Gullickson]

Thank-you for jumping in Jon, I was starting to worry that the group had gone silent :)

If someone can find a link to those files that would be fantastic, I would much rather root through the documentation than bother all of you with questions that have already been answered.

As I said I'm interested in brining the Cat/Swyft/etc. experience to a new generation of users.  To that end I'm interested in hearing about any efforts that are already underway to produce something similar.  I actually had a bit of a revelation last night about the direction of my own efforts which I will be happy to share with all of you once I'm able to complete a "proof-of-concept".

In the meantime any notes, documentation, etc. I can get my hands on will help.  For now I've been working from the descriptions in "The Humane Interface" as well as various sites on the web which have some photographs and notes.  At some point I want to get my hands on "the real thing" but there is plenty of work for me to do before that is necessary.

Thank-you again for chiming in and I hope to share something you will find interesting soon!

Jason J. Gullickson

www.gullicksonlaboratories.com

[John Wiley]

I don't have a link to the files, but I do have a copy of most or all of them on DVD for the group.  I do have to charge $5.00 per copy though mailed to a USA address though, as both the DVD and postage cost money.

 

(my intent was a back-up copy to the back-up copy for this group).

 

John W.

[Jason J. Gullickson]

The DVD sounds excellent John; can I send the funds via paypal (I can throw in an extra buck or two to cover the fees) or something like that? Otherwise just let me know what works best for you, thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

[dwight elvey]

 

---

From: jason.gu...@gmail.com

 

The DVD sounds excellent John; can I send the funds via paypal (I can throw in an extra buck or two to cover the fees) or something like that? Otherwise just let me know what works best for you, thanks!

---snip---

 

  Hi Jason

 You haven't made it clear which you are looking for:

SwyftCard,

SwyftWare,

Swyft,

or Cat.

 

 We so far don't have anything archived on SwyftWare.

We do have the ROMs for the SwyftCard and such

We have source code for the Cat and with some minor

mods to a Cat, one can recompile it.

 I beleive I also have the PROM code for the Swyft

but no schematics that I know of.

 The maintainence manual for the Cat has schematics

but it is mostly composed of custom ASICs.

Dwight

 

[Jeff Newman]

I must have missed something along the way somewhere. Is there not an
online storage location anymore? If not, I'd be happy to host one for the
group. I run my own hosting setup, wouldn't really be a bother.

It wouldn't be total access, but I'd be happy to put it up in read-only
access, and add things as people ask me to.

Jeff Newman

Jason J. Gullickson
www.gullicksonlaboratories.com

<mailto:canon-cat%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com> .

[dwight elvey]

Hi Jeff
 That would be great.
 I looked at GoogleFiles and realized it wasn't what
we were looking for. It is basicly just a private file repository
that one can grant access to to specific people. Not really
what we were used to.
 Give me a little time to get things together and
then we can set something up.
Dwight

[dwight elvey]

Hi All
 Here is my first addition. We can add things like question and answers
to make it a real FAQ.
 Right now, here are the files I currently have. If you need a specifc file or
two, let me know.
 If you have any questions about the files listed, I'll update this FAQ
with the answer, if I know it. If not the group can do so.
 
Here is what I have:
 
** Cat Stuff
** Source code with disk breaks to deal with spaces that have replaced tabs
 A0.txt
 A1.txt
 B0.txt
 B1.txt
 C0.txt
 C1.txt
 D0.txt
 
 A0SCODE174.txt
** Source code with spaces instead of tabs. Too big for Cat to save.
 A0SCODE240.txt
 A1SCODE240.txt
 B0SCODE240.txt
 B1SCODE240.txt
 C0SCODE240.txt
 C1SCODE240.txt
 Tabbed source notes.pdf
 Cat disk b1 orignal.pdf ** B1 original in PDF
 Cat disk b1 tabbed.pdf  ** B! with tabs

** Must load first before loading and compiling source.
 TCOMPLR240.txt
** Terry Forth used in Cat may have slight differenced in address.
 tForth Manual OCR.pdf
** Compiled images of Cat's rev 2.40 from source
 R240H0.S
 R240H1.S
 R240L0.S
 R240L1.S
** Connecting additional Static RAM for compiling without Shadow Board
 RAM_FIX.jpg  ** schematic showing the connections of Static RAM
 RAM_FIX.txt  ** Text describing how to connect Static RAM
 Ram_Installed.jpg  ** Shows installed static RAM
 SocketWires.jpg  ** shows wiring for Static RAM
 shadow RAM board.jpg  ** picture of static RAM board used by IAI
 
** Cat manuals
 Cat Editor Reference OCR.pdf.gz
 Cat How-to Guide OCR.pdf.gz
 Cat Instruction Manual OCR.pdf.gz
 Cat Quick Reference OCR.pdf.gz
 cat_card.pdf ** Reference pdf in color
 Cat Repair Manual OCR.pdf
 Cat Schenatics.pdf
 Cat Components.pdf
** Text Dwight wrote on early exploring the Cat
 ForthInside.txt  ** early Cat code exploring and simple printer driver.
** Later work having the source code and editing the source to include HP Printer.
 CatwithHP.tar.gz ** Source and images of 2.40 with HP printer driver.
** Most common cause of disk failure
 flop2.jpg  ** shows fixed bar clamp
 flop3.jpg  ** shows broken piece bar clamp
** Assorted pictures of drive, disassembled
 cat_drive001.pdf
 cat_drive002.pdf
 cat_drive003.pdf
 cat_drive004.pdf
 cat_drive005.pdf
 cat_drive006.pdf
 cat_drive007.pdf
 cat_drive008.pdf
 cat_drive009.pdf
 cat_drive0010.pdf
 cat_drive0011.pdf
 cat_drive0012.pdf
 cat_drive0013.pdf
 cat_drive0014.pdf
** Adapter to use standard PD 3.5 drive
 Cat2Flop.pdf  ** adapter to regular flops
 extrnflp.jpg  ** two drives using regular drives
** Cat keyboard innner parts
 keybrd.jpg  ** shows wiper and plunger of inside key switch

** Misc Cat
 CatDiskDIM.gif  ** emulator error message
 CatWeb.txt
 Canon Cat boot times.jpg

** Swyft stuff & SwyftWare stuff & SwyftCard
 Swyft Quick Reference Card2.jpg
 Swyft Quick Reference OCR.pdf.gz
 SWYFTPIN.txt  ** pinout on back of Swyft computer
 Swyfts & Cats.jpg  ** Photo of Sandies Cats and Swyfts
 Apple2ESwyftCardEmul.Image
 **  syftcard stuff
 swftcrd.bin  ** ROM for SwyftCard
 swftcrd.hex  ** ROM for SwyftCard
 SWYFT3.PAL  ** JEDIC source for PAL to Swyft Card
 Swyft SwyftCard SwytWare debug note 1.jpg  ** original notes
 Swyft SwyftCard SwytWare debug note 2.jpg  ** more notes
 SWYFTf1.jpg  ** picture of SwyftCard Front
 SWYFTb.jpg  ** Picture of SwyftCard Back
 SwyftCardAd OCR.pdf.gz
 SwyftCard Manual OCR.pdf.gz
 SwyftWare Manual pp 1&2.jpg
 SwyftCardMan.pdf
 SwyftCard Patent OCR.pdf.gz
 SwyftWare Patent OCR.pdf.gz
** Misc stuff
 t4pc.txt ** TForth for PC ( Terry Forth )
 ASUS Keyboard.jpg
 Raskin Articles OCR.pdf
 Raskin Correspondence OCR.pdf
 MemorialInvitation.pdf ** Dave Bulton RIP
 First light.jpg  ** Dave B. Dev system
 IAI timeline notes.txt
 REVIVAL2.txt
 Screen shot.jpg

[Jason Gullickson]

The short answer is "yes" :)

I'd love a copy of everything you have, I really want to understand these devices as much as possible.  I'm particularly curious about the FORTH source you have as that sounds like the most direct way to understand the system but everything else sounds fascinating as well.

If you're still looking for somewhere to store the files on the 'net I'd be willing to donate some space as well, I could setup FTP upload for you to http://skylab.gullicksonlaboratories.com and make the files available via ftp/http for the rest of the group.  

Thanks to all of you for this group, it's been very helpful so far.

Jason

[Jeff Newman]

I'll defer my offer to Jason, as he seems to have a dual-interest in access
to the files. I simply hoped to keep them alive, but it sounds like he
might be capable of giving them new life.

Thanks.

Jeff Newman

-----Original Message-----
From: cano...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cano...@googlegroups.com] On

Jason

--

[dwight elvey]

Hi
 I've been trying to organize the files some so they are
not just a jumble. So far it is just the index that
I posted.
 What is the opinion on making subdirectories or just
leaving it in a large pile.
 I'm tending towards leaving them in a pile, as long
as there is some type of orginized index.
 I've seen other repositories with thing hidden in
subdirectories. Since it is never easy to fully catergorize
things, things tend to end up in places that don't always
make sense.
Dwight

[Jason J. Gullickson]

I agree that a pile is best unless you can make the directory structure searchable or something like that.

You can always construct an organized page of links later as time allows.

Sent from my iPhone

[John Wiley]

Jason, Let's keep it simpler than that.  Just mail a note to me with your $5.00 US or so folded over inside-or a good funds check-with your mail  address of course, and as I can (say about a week) I will mail the DVD copy to you in a DVD mailer.

 

I am not "turning a business" out of this.  As you can tell, there are lots of thinkers in this group.  What we need are "tinkers"

ones who love to fiddle with electronics & programming).  That's what it takes to re-create one of these.

 

Just mail to :

 

John Wiley

1140 Howard Avenue

Des Plaines, IL  60018

[Jason J. Gullickson]

Hey John,

I'll be happy to send for a disc however   I offered to host the files online for the group in another thread; would you be able to upload them to a server I'll provide instead?

Either way just let me know, thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

[John Wiley]

Well, I guess I can  I can try to do that at least, we'll try it maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I don't know of why it would not, unless the server is hosted Russia or Iran (the USA would block that).

 

As long as it is e whole Canon Cat group's access I'd be happy to.

 

John Wiley

[Jason Gullickson]

Excellent.

I can set you up with read/write access via FTP, I'll post the account info to the group once it's setup.  After you've uploaded the files I'll share a URL where you can access them in a browser.

If FTP doesn't work for you I can share a dropbox folder which might be easier and then I'll FTP the files up on my end.

Let me know what your preference is and I'll get things rolling tonight.

Thanks!

Jason

Jason J. Gullickson

jason.gu...@gmail.com

http://gullicksonlaboratories.com

[John Wiley]

Hi Jason,

 

I hope your iPhone applications are selling well.

 

One thing I can't software to my computer at this time, so if I would have to add any FTP software on my end I can't to that right now. It's called I need to take this workhorse in and have larger hard drives installed--it's not fault that some GUI based software is very bloated.  Ah well, that's a not now but "soon" thing right now.

 

Like I said, I'll give anything other than that a try.

[Jason Gullickson]

Hi John,

The iPhone stuff is doing well enough to keep me in fresh parts but I still have a "day job" for now :)

Let's try Dropbox first, that way you won't have to install anything and you can upload the files right from the browser.  I just need an email address to send your invitation for the shared folder to; is "jfgu...@gmail.com" correct?

Thanks again,

Jason

[John Wiley]

Hello Jason,

 

I await for you to email me a drop-box to this email address: jfgu...@gmail.com 

As you go through the materials, be sure to keep the CanonCat and the SwiftCard materials separate. 

 

 

Keep in mind also that to follow Jeff Raskin's ideas now days, you don't have to limit yourself to Forth.

 

John W.

 

Sorry it took me so long to respond, but that has to do with one reason I'm disabled.

[Jason Gullickson]

What a coincidence, I was just checking back to see if I missed a reply and while I was logging in I received your email!

I have sent an invitation to the shared dropbox folder; let me know if you run into any trouble using that.

I've been working on something that you may find interesting and I'm hoping to put together a demo soon that I can share with the group. In the meantime I'll keep working and keep a lookout for the files.

Thanks again!

Jason

[John Wiley]

Hello Jason,

 

It is now  1:30 am here.   The drop box should be all transfered and ready for your use by 3:00am Central Standard Time.

 

Sincerely,

 

John Wiley

[Jason J. Gullickson]

Thanks John, I see the files out there and I'll work on getting them posted this weekend.  When they are up I'll share the URL with the group.

Thanks again!

Jason J. Gullickson 

[John Wiley]

Hello Jason and members of the group,

 

Jason, I hope you have that web page of Swift and Cat files up fairly soon.  I did see that you did organize the files though.  That really needed be done-thanks.

 

I will be closing the drop box by the end of May as this (my) computer will be if for repairs and I do not wish to leave an open remote file storage place open at that time.  Well, that is just me.

 

Thanks again,

 

John W.

[Jason Gullickson]

Sorry for the delay everyone, lots of work to do outside this time of year!

I have the files uploaded, you can find them here:

http://www.gullicksonlaboratories.com/swyftfiles/

Please let me know if you have any questions or trouble reaching the files!

Jason

[dke...@hotmail.com]

Hi Jason
Can you check the files you have against the list that I posted.
If you have any additional file or are missing any that I've listed,
let me know.
Dwight


On Apr 26, 2:09 pm, Jason Gullickson <jason.gullick...@gmail.com>
wrote: