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Alan Baggett  
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 More options Nov 15 2011, 9:45 am
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: Alan Baggett <taxbi...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 06:45:38 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 15 2011 9:45 am
Subject: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW

A local woman has had a $19,500 burden lifted off her shoulders.

On Saturday, the Times & Transcript shared the story of a local woman
we called Mary. Her real name and the names of her three children are
protected by a publication ban.
Mary suffered years of sexual and physical abuse at the hands of her
partner. The man also assaulted her children. In February he was
sentenced to four years in prison for sexual assault, assault with a
weapon and two indictable accounts of assault.

It seemed a new beginning for Mary and her children, but in March the
Canada Revenue Agency told her it was reassessing her tax returns for
2008, 2009 and 2010.

Mary had filed as single, but the man had been living with her during
those years, which meant she should have filed common-law.

She was quick to admit she was wrong and told CRA to go ahead with the
reassessment, knowing it wouldn't make a difference anyway as their
combined income was so low.

But CRA came back with a bill for more than $19,500, money it said she
owed because she was overpaid the child tax benefit.

Mary had no idea how CRA came up with this figure. Her ex hadn't filed
taxes for at least five years, so she didn't know what figure CRA was
using as his income and they wouldn't tell her, citing privacy laws.

Nor could they compel her abuser to file his taxes so she could prove
their income really was low enough to entitle her to the full child
tax benefit.

CRA seized her 2010 tax refund and her child tax benefit. For five
months she and her three children lived on her salary of about $1,100
a month.

For eight months she appealed to everyone she could think of for help
and the best she could do was to negotiate with the government to
receive half her child tax benefit. In eight months, she repaid nearly
$9,000, but still owed more than $10,000.

As a last resort, she told her story to the Times & Transcript. When a
reporter contacted the CRA they offered to put Mary in touch with
someone from their problem resolution program.

On Monday afternoon Mary's phone rang.

"The lady from the CRA said that the balance that I owe is zero," Mary
says.

Not only that, but when her next child tax benefit cheque is deposited
in her account on Nov. 18, it will also include all of the money she
has already paid toward the balance.

"I just was shocked," she says. "I was absolutely stunned. I wasn't
expecting her to say this has been resolved and you owe zero."

Mary says she also received a call from Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe MP
Robert Goguen on Monday night. Goguen had also been working on her
behalf and had helped her work out the deal to receive half her child
tax benefit.

"He said, 'I hear everything is resolved,' and said that was good and
that he was sorry for what I went through," she says.

After the hours and hours and hours she spent talking to countless
people about her situation, she couldn't believe how quickly the whole
ordeal came to an end.

"I find it quite amazing that it took them 24 hours to resolve it,"
she says. "It is almost surreal. I just went through eight months of
hell and they could resolve it in 24 hours. I'm kind of (angry), but
relieved. I'm thinking, 'Oh my god, I can buy food. Plus Christmas is
coming, so that is a relief too."

Mary says she'll be able to get her children the things they need that
she just hasn't been able to buy, like new clothes and a bed for one
of them.

"It is such a weight lifted off of me," she says. "I can breathe."

The situation isn't entirely resolved.

Mary says the amount of money the woman from the CRA told her they
would be depositing isn't the full amount she has paid in, however,
when she explained that to her, the woman said she would look into it
and get back to her this week.

Mary also doesn't know if the situation is settled for good or if
there is a possibility the case will be reopened when and if her ex
files his taxes. She was so stunned when the call came that she didn't
think of that until after she hung up the phone.

She still doesn't know if her ex has filed his taxes or not and the
CRA said they can't tell her that.

While Mary's problem seems to be largely resolved, she is just one
person.

The system that caused her months of grief is no different today than
it was last week. There is still no help for anyone in a situation
like hers.

Ginette Petitpas-Taylor, victim services co-ordinator for Codiac RCMP,
says in New Brunswick there is no access to legal advice or aid in
situations like this.

"There is no access to poverty law services, meaning any type of civil
action that needs to be taken," she says. "Legal aid budgets have been
cut over the years and as a result these individuals end up having to
pay the price. They are not having the proper representation they need
and proper advice as to what next steps they need to take.

"Too many women fall between the cracks and it is just not fair.
Everyone should have access to these services."

Petitpas-Taylor says tax issues is only one area where people need
help. Disputes with a landlord, custody cases and child support are
other problems where no help is available.
She says abusers often use the letter of the law to their full
advantage to continue abusing their victims long after they have
physically left.

Sometimes it involves property or banks accounts. If one person
refuses to sign to sell a home, for example, there is not much the
other person can do apart from take them to court. If you don't have
money for a lawyer, that is a problematic solution.

"Ideally if we could have legal clinics in our community, it could
definitely help them," she says.

Petitpas-Taylor says there are some lawyers in the Moncton area who
donate their time to meet with people dealing with custody matters,
but there is nothing for cases like Mary's.
"Even if you look at things like being denied EI premiums or
compensation if you've been injured at work and the list goes on and
on," she says. "If you don't have a way to challenge these decisions,
you will be left with nothing."

Petitpas-Taylor says in domestic violence situations in particular,
women are often so overwhelmed just trying to take care of their needs
and those of their children that they don't have the energy to try to
navigate through the complexities of the system on their own.

She says it's great that Mary's situation has been resolved, "but why
does it have to take a story in the paper for this to be resolved?"
she says.

"More education needs to be done on the realities of domestic
violence. We all have a role to play."

Petitpas-Taylor says we should be looking for ways we can help, rather
than for reasons we can't.

"Let's take the obstacles out of the way for survivors. You never know
what is going to be that last drop in the bucket," Petitpas-Taylor
says.

"We need to be sensitive to the needs of the individuals we work with.
How can we make it easier for victims rather than put more obstacles
in the way. Sometimes we have to do that extra.

"It may not be my job to take someone to the food bank on a Friday
afternoon, but I think it is my duty to do that. It's not what belongs
to me as my job, it is what needs to be done."

--------------------------------------------------------------
Miss a Tax Tale Miss a lot!
Pop the link below into your browser to view the entire CRA SOTW
Library!
http://canada.revenue.agency.angelfire.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Baggett – Tax Collector’s Bible - http://taxcollectorsbible.com/


 
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Canuck57  
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 More options Nov 15 2011, 10:53 am
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:53:36 -0700
Local: Tues, Nov 15 2011 10:53 am
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On 15/11/2011 7:45 AM, Alan Baggett wrote:

> Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW

Not really their wrong.

> A local woman has had a $19,500 burden lifted off her shoulders.

You mean she had money owed forgiven on compassionate grounds.

Hey, while a liberal politically correct type means bullshitting, in
this case CRA did no wrong.  They actually showed some compassion, but
did no wrong.

Technically, she likely owed the money and should have chosen better
quality male on who she opens her legs up to in breeding.

> On Saturday, the Times&  Transcript shared the story of a local woman
> we called Mary. Her real name and the names of her three children are
> protected by a publication ban.
> Mary suffered years of sexual and physical abuse at the hands of her
> partner. The man also assaulted her children. In February he was
> sentenced to four years in prison for sexual assault, assault with a
> weapon and two indictable accounts of assault.

And bet she will take him back on release.  Why did she stick with him?

> It seemed a new beginning for Mary and her children, but in March the
> Canada Revenue Agency told her it was reassessing her tax returns for
> 2008, 2009 and 2010.

Computers likely do this automatically.

> Mary had filed as single, but the man had been living with her during
> those years, which meant she should have filed common-law.

Should by itself make much difference unless he made lots of money.
Sucking welfare and getting unreported support, just blood sucking the
system.

> She was quick to admit she was wrong and told CRA to go ahead with the
> reassessment, knowing it wouldn't make a difference anyway as their
> combined income was so low.

People always underestimate their liabilities and debts.  Nothing new,
especially of the rationality index is low.

> But CRA came back with a bill for more than $19,500, money it said she
> owed because she was overpaid the child tax benefit.

Man, that is a lot of child support.  So lets see, she over collected
$19,500 while the abusive man was supporting her.  Sounds more like fraud.

> Mary had no idea how CRA came up with this figure. Her ex hadn't filed
> taxes for at least five years, so she didn't know what figure CRA was
> using as his income and they wouldn't tell her, citing privacy laws.

Here is where the CRA is dead assed wrong.  If someone else's income tax
is affecting yours, CRA had better disclose all the fracking details.
No one should have to blind trust the CRA.

My guess, the poor genetic choice of her boyfriend probably claimed her
as a dependent.

> Nor could they compel her abuser to file his taxes so she could prove
> their income really was low enough to entitle her to the full child
> tax benefit.

> CRA seized her 2010 tax refund and her child tax benefit. For five
> months she and her three children lived on her salary of about $1,100
> a month.

Which is the self pity part.  Hey, her utter stupidity got her here.

> For eight months she appealed to everyone she could think of for help
> and the best she could do was to negotiate with the government to
> receive half her child tax benefit. In eight months, she repaid nearly
> $9,000, but still owed more than $10,000.

> As a last resort, she told her story to the Times&  Transcript. When a
> reporter contacted the CRA they offered to put Mary in touch with
> someone from their problem resolution program.

Liberal feel good bullshit.

> On Monday afternoon Mary's phone rang.

> "The lady from the CRA said that the balance that I owe is zero," Mary
> says.

> Not only that, but when her next child tax benefit cheque is deposited
> in her account on Nov. 18, it will also include all of the money she
> has already paid toward the balance.

She won the lottery on the taxpayer.

> "I just was shocked," she says. "I was absolutely stunned. I wasn't
> expecting her to say this has been resolved and you owe zero."

Hardly, she was hoping for it all along.  I sure doubt the sincerity of
that statement.

> Mary says she also received a call from Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe MP
> Robert Goguen on Monday night. Goguen had also been working on her
> behalf and had helped her work out the deal to receive half her child
> tax benefit.

Pandering.

> "He said, 'I hear everything is resolved,' and said that was good and
> that he was sorry for what I went through," she says.

> After the hours and hours and hours she spent talking to countless
> people about her situation, she couldn't believe how quickly the whole
> ordeal came to an end.

Lets hope she is smart enough to capitalize on the opportunity -- to
keep her legs closed and raise the kids properly.

> "I find it quite amazing that it took them 24 hours to resolve it,"
> she says. "It is almost surreal. I just went through eight months of
> hell and they could resolve it in 24 hours. I'm kind of (angry), but
> relieved. I'm thinking, 'Oh my god, I can buy food. Plus Christmas is
> coming, so that is a relief too."

Is kind of amazing CRA shook their asses so fast.

> Mary says she'll be able to get her children the things they need that
> she just hasn't been able to buy, like new clothes and a bed for one
> of them.

Lets hope the kids do get hat thy need, and alcohol store excluded.

> She still doesn't know if her ex has filed his taxes or not and the
> CRA said they can't tell her that.

If it affects her taxes, she should have access.  CRA needs to change this.

> While Mary's problem seems to be largely resolved, she is just one
> person.

Don't worry, every welfare abuser in the country will look at it.

[ snip ]

Lets hope the kids do OK.

--
The reason government can't fix the economic problems as government is
the problem.


 
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John Fleming  
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 More options Nov 15 2011, 9:07 pm
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: John Fleming <nos...@sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:07:32 -0700
Local: Tues, Nov 15 2011 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:53:36 -0700, while chained to a desk
in the scriptorium Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com> wrote:

> $On 15/11/2011 7:45 AM, Alan Baggett wrote:
> $> After the hours and hours and hours she spent talking to countless
> $> people about her situation, she couldn't believe how quickly the whole
> $> ordeal came to an end.
> $
> $Lets hope she is smart enough to capitalize on the opportunity -- to
> $keep her legs closed and raise the kids properly.

Or just gets a good old fashioned tubal ligation.  Then she
can spread her legs for whoever she wants and not have to
worry about unwanted children.  And it's easier than
insisting the hunk of man flesh using her body to wipe up
his need use a condom as well.

--

John Fleming
Edmonton, Canada

     Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O
     And on that farm he had a genome E-I-E-I-O
     With a SNP SNP here and a SNP SNP there,
     Here a SNP, there a SNP, everywhere a SNP SNP
     Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O


 
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Canuck57  
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 More options Nov 16 2011, 2:14 pm
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:14:03 -0700
Local: Wed, Nov 16 2011 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On 15/11/2011 7:07 PM, John Fleming wrote:

Bet she saves condom money for booze.

--
The reason government can't fix the economic problems as government is
the problem.


 
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John Fleming  
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 More options Nov 19 2011, 11:09 am
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: John Fleming <nos...@sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:09:04 -0700
Local: Sat, Nov 19 2011 11:09 am
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:14:03 -0700, while chained to a desk
in the scriptorium Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com> wrote:

Maybe she does.  Or just as likely, maybe her male lovers
do.

The sad thing is, because they are too cheap to spend a few
dollars on safe sex, society is going to end up supporting
all their offspring.

--

John Fleming
Edmonton, Canada

     Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O
     And on that farm he had a genome E-I-E-I-O
     With a SNP SNP here and a SNP SNP there,
     Here a SNP, there a SNP, everywhere a SNP SNP
     Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O


 
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Canuck57  
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 More options Nov 19 2011, 7:31 pm
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:31:52 -0700
Local: Sat, Nov 19 2011 7:31 pm
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On 19/11/2011 9:09 AM, John Fleming wrote:

True, but a self respecting woman wouldn't sleep with a guy like that.

But society will not support them indefinitely.

Presents a real long term sustainability problem too.  Welfare ho has 8
kids to get big payments from welfare.  Working professional people have
to have 2 jobs to pay the taxes for welfare and government corruption,
too tired working-tax poor only have one kid or even no kids.

The opposite of darwin, de-evolution of the species both in cranium and
in social culture.

And why Canadian society will fail at some point.  it is pretty much
assured we have passed the apex of development of a Canadian culture and
are now in the decay phase.

Probably why there are so many liberal socialists discarding the
conservative values of self worth, determination, self discipline, self
development, work ethics, save a little often, spend less than you make,
independence....

Poor snowflake fleabaggers will never understand the best liberty of
them all is economic liberty.
--
The reason government can't fix the economic problems as government is
the problem.


 
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John Fleming  
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 More options Nov 20 2011, 4:34 pm
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: John Fleming <nos...@sprynet.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:34:21 -0700
Local: Sun, Nov 20 2011 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:31:52 -0700, while chained to a desk
in the scriptorium Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com> wrote:

If I had my way, after two kids, I would make a tubal
ligation a requirement for receiving welfare.  It would put
an end to the ones who get pregnant just so they can keep
collecting.

> $The opposite of darwin, de-evolution of the species both in cranium and
> $in social culture.

If you really think about it, socially, they are the ones
best adapted to a permissive society that sees one of the
government's roles as helping the poor and downtrodden.

> $And why Canadian society will fail at some point.  it is pretty much
> $assured we have passed the apex of development of a Canadian culture and
> $are now in the decay phase.
> $
> $Probably why there are so many liberal socialists discarding the
> $conservative values of self worth, determination, self discipline, self
> $development, work ethics, save a little often, spend less than you make,
> $independence....

Our society has declined in this area, I agree.

> $Poor snowflake fleabaggers will never understand the best liberty of
> $them all is economic liberty.

Agree here too.

Best way to guarantee your employment is your ability to
find work.  If you are good at finding work, even in poor
economies, you will have an income.

(Interestingly enough, the people I know who argue most that
this is wrong seem to work in union shops--especially
government union shops.  People I know who agree whole
heartedly are usually small business people and self
employed.)

--

John Fleming
Edmonton, Canada

     Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O
     And on that farm he had a genome E-I-E-I-O
     With a SNP SNP here and a SNP SNP there,
     Here a SNP, there a SNP, everywhere a SNP SNP
     Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O


 
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Canuck57  
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 More options Nov 21 2011, 4:56 am
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:56:16 -0700
Local: Mon, Nov 21 2011 4:56 am
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On 20/11/2011 2:34 PM, John Fleming wrote:

I think it was Massachusetts about 12 years ago that instituted no more
money for new kids on welfare and free birth control.  Illegitimate
welfare births dropped 67%.

>> $The opposite of darwin, de-evolution of the species both in cranium and
>> $in social culture.

> If you really think about it, socially, they are the ones
> best adapted to a permissive society that sees one of the
> government's roles as helping the poor and downtrodden.

More people as dependants than as workers, worker are outnumbered.  To
add to the problem about 1 in 4 over 18 is dependent on the government
somehow, contractor, retired, worker, welfare, kid in school or whatever.

End result, the people who pay for and make society work, the value
added producer is outnumbered and a slave to the majority.  So all an
unscrupulous politician has to do is pander with other peoples money and
gets 25% of the vote.

Also why screw the rich and persecute the companies and expect jobs
actually sells to the lower class union types.  Add tehm in and
productive members are outvoted.

The right solution would be, if you are on welfare, in prison, a
government worker you get no vote.  Normalize a better representation of
clear value direction.

>> $And why Canadian society will fail at some point.  it is pretty much
>> $assured we have passed the apex of development of a Canadian culture and
>> $are now in the decay phase.
>> $
>> $Probably why there are so many liberal socialists discarding the
>> $conservative values of self worth, determination, self discipline, self
>> $development, work ethics, save a little often, spend less than you make,
>> $independence....

> Our society has declined in this area, I agree.

Because those without the discipline are the ones breeding, parents know
no better, no mentorship there.

>> $Poor snowflake fleabaggers will never understand the best liberty of
>> $them all is economic liberty.

> Agree here too.

> Best way to guarantee your employment is your ability to
> find work.  If you are good at finding work, even in poor
> economies, you will have an income.

> (Interestingly enough, the people I know who argue most that
> this is wrong seem to work in union shops--especially
> government union shops.  People I know who agree whole
> heartedly are usually small business people and self
> employed.)

People feel entitled to their job with no regard to their performance,
economic conditions or politics.  Unions are designed to stall evolution
and foster entitlement and envy and stagnant the environment,
protectionism of sorts.  And if they don't get their way, union
thuggery, intimidation and bullying.

BTW, I have been union several times.  Left me with no respect for them.
  Many unions are weak place holders, others are militant anti-company
to a point they cut their own throats or in the case of government,
screw the taxpayers.  Or like GM/CAW and the NDP, Liberal Block bribe
for a coupe d'etat.  GM/CAW/UAW got the bailout, but GM lost my
business.  Only way to fight the extortion.

--
All successful people have one thing in common, if even for a moment
they think rationally.


 
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John Fleming  
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 More options Nov 21 2011, 8:52 pm
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: John Fleming <nos...@sprynet.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:52:29 -0700
Local: Mon, Nov 21 2011 8:52 pm
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:56:16 -0700, while chained to a desk
in the scriptorium Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com> wrote:

Interesting.

> $>> $The opposite of darwin, de-evolution of the species both in cranium and
> $>> $in social culture.
> $>
> $> If you really think about it, socially, they are the ones
> $> best adapted to a permissive society that sees one of the
> $> government's roles as helping the poor and downtrodden.
> $
> $More people as dependants than as workers, worker are outnumbered.  To
> $add to the problem about 1 in 4 over 18 is dependent on the government
> $somehow, contractor, retired, worker, welfare, kid in school or whatever.

Same is increasingly true with pension plans.  Back in the
days when many defined benefit pension plans were formed,
the number of workers significantly outnumbered the number
of pensioners.

Since then, people started retiring earlier--25 to 30 years
of service plus age 55 could satisfy the rule of
80-something many pensions have to qualify for full pension.
On top of that, people are living longer.

Result is there are now as little as two workers for every
retiree.

Defined benefit plans still need to provide the same level
of income--regardless of how long the retiree lives.  And if
the plan's investments produce less then the income required
to support retirees, guess who comes up with the difference?

People working towards retirement wake up one morning to
discover the pension plan has increased their monthly
pension plan contributions to make up for the shortfall.

Unions and collective bargaining make sense when a company
has thousands of employees doing similar jobs.  A lot of
time and energy is saved when the company only has to deal
with a small team of negotiators instead of having to
negotiate thousands of individual contracts.  Also, a lot of
hard feelings are avoided because Jo Bloggins happens to be
a better negotiator and can get a slightly better deal than
John Doe who does essentially the same job and has similar
experience and training.

At the same time, I agree, unions can be their own worst
enemies.  They create an environment where promotion is by
seniority instead of ability and level of contribution. They
drag the employer over a barrel to the point where the
employer closes the plant down or ships production overseas
where people work twice as hard for a third of the pay.

--

John Fleming
Edmonton, Canada

     Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O
     And on that farm he had a genome E-I-E-I-O
     With a SNP SNP here and a SNP SNP there,
     Here a SNP, there a SNP, everywhere a SNP SNP
     Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O


 
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Canuck57  
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 More options Nov 21 2011, 10:03 pm
Newsgroups: can.taxes, can.general, can.politics, ott.general
From: Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:03:40 -0700
Local: Mon, Nov 21 2011 10:03 pm
Subject: Re: Canada Revenue Agency Rights Their Wrong! : CRA SOTW
On 21/11/2011 6:52 PM, John Fleming wrote:

>> $More people as dependants than as workers, worker are outnumbered.  To
>> $add to the problem about 1 in 4 over 18 is dependent on the government
>> $somehow, contractor, retired, worker, welfare, kid in school or whatever.

> Same is increasingly true with pension plans.  Back in the
> days when many defined benefit pension plans were formed,
> the number of workers significantly outnumbered the number
> of pensioners.

> Since then, people started retiring earlier--25 to 30 years
> of service plus age 55 could satisfy the rule of
> 80-something many pensions have to qualify for full pension.
> On top of that, people are living longer.

It gets worse.  Years of mismanagement didn't get the yields to pace
inflation.  Actuarial BS is what I call it.  Add in you might get a CEO
for 4 years, then when they leave they get a full pension skimming off
the long term employees.

Then NorTel situation where it gets devalued 4 times or more.

Or CPP, where 6 years to full pension without the full pay in and then
go back to the old country and live like king.  Rampant abuse there too
for CPP.  Plus government borrows from it with below inflation returns
so over time it looses value.

Pensions today are scams for the most part.

In your name/account/control is the only way to go.

> Result is there are now as little as two workers for every
> retiree.

Yep, and why they let in so much immigration even when there is a
shortage of jobs.  Appeases the "families" in Canada too as lots of
cheap labor in a saturated market.

> Defined benefit plans still need to provide the same level
> of income--regardless of how long the retiree lives.  And if
> the plan's investments produce less then the income required
> to support retirees, guess who comes up with the difference?

Say you die.  How much does your wife get from the defined plan?  40%,
60% or nothing?

If in your name/account/control she or your estate get 100% of the
value.  Not so in pooled scams.  Hell, you could die the next day after
retirement and your family gets squat from pooled scams.

> People working towards retirement wake up one morning to
> discover the pension plan has increased their monthly
> pension plan contributions to make up for the shortfall.

Or worse, find out it is going to be hard to live in Canada on a mere
$1100/mo CPP.

To a point.  But often union stokes up the greed and envy and
entitlement  No way a G12 flunky is worth $80/hr loaded rate at GM with
paid idle time.  Or a $45hr postie that in actuality delivers for no
more than 4 hours.

> At the same time, I agree, unions can be their own worst
> enemies.  They create an environment where promotion is by
> seniority instead of ability and level of contribution. They
> drag the employer over a barrel to the point where the
> employer closes the plant down or ships production overseas
> where people work twice as hard for a third of the pay.

Saw that in every union environment I was in.

--
All successful people have one thing in common, if even for a moment
they think rationally.


 
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