Re: Why should tax payers pay for college loans

[Meat : It's What's for Obama's Dinner @whitehouse.org Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners]

"Joe Cool" <joeco...@live.com> wrote in message
news:f5982208-f13c-4ee1...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
> On May 8, 5:32 pm, Our President is Mentally Challenged
> <ret...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>> Let these punks get a job or go in the military, Or not go to
>> college.
>
> Taxpayers do NOT pay for student loans, they do only for those who
> default on them


Student Loan Default Rates Rise Sharply in Past Year you pathetic clueless
babbling fucking asshole moron.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html

[trainguard]

On May 8, 11:15 pm, "Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners" <Dog Meat : It's
What's for Obama's Dinner @ White House.org> wrote:
> "Joe Cool" <joecool1...@live.com> wrote in message

In Britain, we quash loans after a set period if the ex-student does
not earn above a particular limit. This is designed to benefit people
who perform socially necessary work in jobs that don't pay well. But
you wouldn't understand that....

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Steve]

Leftists like it that losers get coddled.. That's because leftists
are losers.

[trainguard]

On May 9, 11:42 am, "In a very dark China Blue, China Blue condition."
<chine.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <b649bf2c-7e41-4f13-8a4c-6e9e7f6f0...@z14g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>,

> We used to have state university tution around $100 a semester for residents.
> The theory was most graduates would stay in the state, earn big paychecks, and
> pay back in taxes more than their education costs. And that actually happenned
> leading to an economic boom. Now with education so expensive, the talented
> newcomers are disappearing. Nobody knows where the next generation is going to
> come from.

There are two points here. The first is that not all graduates are
employed in professions or occupations that pay well. Some become
clergy (not the Oral Roberts type of minister), go into teaching,
undertake vital academic research, become social workers, in fact,
follow what is usually deemed as a vocation. I was writing about how,
in my country, such people usually end up having their student loans
written off.


As to your point? All our universities (with one exception) are public
institutions, and receive grant aid from the government. Why? Well, it
is taken as a given that universities contribute both to the national
economy and the improvement and social cohesion of society by
producing graduates. I would have thought that the same applies across
the Atlantic. Education can be expensive, but it depends very much
upon what it consists of. Some areas of knowledge can still be taught
as they were in the middle ages, through lecture and disputation.

Dr. Barry Worthington

>
> --
> My name Indigo Montoya.      |    R'lyeh 38o57'6.5''S 102o51'16''E.
> You flamed my father.        |       I'm whoever you want me to be.
> Prepare to be spanked.       |  Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
> Stop posting that!           |    At least I can stay in character.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Liberals are VERMIN]

It's still another subsidy, courtesy of the TAXPAYERS, only it's a
sneaky way of doing it. It's an indirect way of paying public-sector
workers MUCH higher salaries than private sector workers.
They don't fool anyone though.

[Nexus]

On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:


All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
loans.
Canada would be a better place is the cost of one F-35 --- $790
million --- were to put some more people through college.

[Wayne]

"trainguard" <barry_wo...@sky.com> wrote in message
news:b649bf2c-7e41-4f13...@z14g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

On May 8, 11:15 pm, "Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners" <Dog Meat : It's
What's for Obama's Dinner @ White House.org> wrote:
> "Joe Cool" <joecool1...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f5982208-f13c-4ee1...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On May 8, 5:32 pm, Our President is Mentally Challenged
> > <ret...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Let these punks get a job or go in the military, Or not go to
> >> college.
>
> > Taxpayers do NOT pay for student loans, they do only for those who
> > default on them
>
> Student Loan Default Rates Rise Sharply in Past Year you pathetic clueless
> babbling fucking asshole moron.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html

# In Britain, we quash loans after a set period if the ex-student does
# not earn above a particular limit. This is designed to benefit people
# who perform socially necessary work in jobs that don't pay well. But
# you wouldn't understand that....
#
# Dr. Barry Worthington

And perhaps those low level jobs don't require a college education.

[Dave Smith]

On 09/05/2012 6:42 AM, In a very dark China Blue, China Blue condition.
wrote:

>> In Britain, we quash loans after a set period if the ex-student does
>> not earn above a particular limit. This is designed to benefit people
>> who perform socially necessary work in jobs that don't pay well. But
>> you wouldn't understand that....
>

> We used to have state university tution around $100 a semester for residents.
> The theory was most graduates would stay in the state, earn big paychecks, and
> pay back in taxes more than their education costs. And that actually happenned
> leading to an economic boom. Now with education so expensive, the talented
> newcomers are disappearing. Nobody knows where the next generation is going to
> come from.
>

It is almost amusing to hear some of the right wing blowhards whining
about the left and someone getting something for nothing. They won't
understand your point. Education is a major levelling factor in
society. It helps people from all levels of society to better
themselves. As you point out, it is to society's advantage to have a
well educated population. University and college graduates tend to get
better jobs and earn more money. It helps the economy in general and the
extra taxes they pay more than compensate for the interest on their loans.

[jane]

On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> loans.

Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?

How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
a carpenter or a plumber, pay taxes to send some else to college?

[Nexus]

On May 9, 9:19 am, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> a carpenter or a plumber, pay taxes to send some else to college?

Everyone pays taxes. Certainly carpenters and plumbers, who went to
tech college (there's a long long waiting list to get into trades
courses at my nearest polytech) don't mind paying taxes. After all,
their wives and children may be going too.

[Barry]

On May 9, 1:44 pm, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 6:27 am, trainguard <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 8, 11:15 pm, "Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners" <Dog Meat : It's
> > What's for Obama's Dinner  @ White House.org> wrote:
>
> > > "Joe Cool" <joecool1...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:f5982208-f13c-4ee1...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > On May 8, 5:32 pm, Our President is Mentally Challenged
> > > > <ret...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> > > >>   Let these punks get a job or go in the military, Or not go to
> > > >> college.
>
> > > > Taxpayers do NOT pay for student loans, they do only for those who
> > > > default on them
>
> > > Student Loan Default Rates Rise Sharply in Past Year  you pathetic clueless
> > > babbling fucking asshole moron.
>
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html
>
> > In Britain, we quash loans after a set period if the ex-student does
> > not earn above a particular limit. This is designed to benefit people
> > who perform socially necessary work in jobs that don't pay well. But
> > you wouldn't understand that....
>
> > Dr. Barry Worthington
>
> It's still another subsidy, courtesy of the TAXPAYERS, only it's a
> sneaky way of doing it.

Sneaky? When everyone (well those are aware of what is going on) know
about it?

 >It's an indirect way of paying public-sector
> workers MUCH higher salaries than private sector workers.

You actually think that nursery nurses, teachers, and lecturers are
well paid? In Britain and America?

> They don't fool anyone  though.

Someone has clearly fooled you!

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Barry]

On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > loans.
>
> Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?

It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
students with debt.

> How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> a carpenter or a plumber,

How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?

>pay taxes to send some else to college?

Yes. especially if it helped their children.

Dr. Barry Worthington

>
>
>
> > Canada would be a better place is the cost of one F-35 --- $790

> > million --- were to put some more people through college.- Hide quoted text -

[Barry]

On May 9, 4:34 pm, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "trainguard" <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote in message

Nursing? Teaching? Social work?

Low level jobs?

Sorry, but some of us have to live in the real world......

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Richard Steel]

On May 9, 3:27 am, trainguard <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
> On May 8, 11:15 pm, "Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners" <Dog Meat : It's
> What's for Obama's Dinner  @ White House.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Joe Cool" <joecool1...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:f5982208-f13c-4ee1...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On May 8, 5:32 pm, Our President is Mentally Challenged
> > > <ret...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> > >>   Let these punks get a job or go in the military, Or not go to
> > >> college.
>
> > > Taxpayers do NOT pay for student loans, they do only for those who
> > > default on them

> > Student Loan Default Rates Rise Sharply in Past Year  you pathetic clueless
> > babbling fucking asshole moron.

> >http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html

> In Britain, we quash loans after a set period if the ex-student does
> not earn above a particular limit.

So, goofball "students" can get drunk for four years, pampered
professors earn hansome salaries....and the only one who's screwed are
the British people.

> This is designed to benefit people
> who perform socially necessary work in jobs that don't pay well.

If a job is so important, and it requires years of college
training....why does it pay crap?

> But you wouldn't understand that....

I understand it very well......it's a scam.

[jane]

On May 9, 1:01 pm, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > loans.
>
> > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
>
> It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
> students with debt.
>

SO, instead, you want to saddle a proletariat with taxes so that
someone else can get a professional job?

> > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > a carpenter or a plumber,
>
> How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?

Apprenticeship.

[Richard Steel]

Less than 2% of Britons attend Church regularly. Why, exactly, are
the English people underwriting this clusterfuck disaster?

Perhaps your clergy should attend a few classes at Oral Roberts
University....those guys know how to fill a pew.

> go into teaching,
> undertake vital academic research, become social workers, in fact,
> follow what is usually deemed as a vocation.

You mean people who can't hack it in the real world.

"Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and
facilities; we didn't have to produce anything. You've never been out
of college. I've worked in the private sector. [shrugs shoulders
indignantly] They expect results."
Ray Stantz:
"Ghostbusters"

> I was writing about how,
> in my country, such people usually end up having their student loans
> written off.

So, a guy spends eight years, and $200,000.00 to earn a Ph.D in The
History of Socialism. A decade later, he's still living in his step
father attic, his only real accomplishment is liberating the
dumbwaiter and renaming it "Freedonia". The British people all chip
in for this loser.

[Richard Steel]

On May 9, 10:01 am, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > loans.

> > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?

> It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
> students with debt.

No, it encourages kids to waste years of their lives getting worthless
degrees, while saddling the British people with debt.

> > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > a carpenter or a plumber,

> How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?

Trade schools. I'm all in favor of that.

> >pay taxes to send some else to college?

> Yes. especially if it helped their children.

Americans have never spent more on education, and gotten so little.
The entire corrupt institution needs a complete rethinking, and a lot
of people fired.

[Barry]

On May 9, 6:20 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 1:01 pm, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > > loans.
>
> > > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
>
> > It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
> > students with debt.
>
> SO, instead, you want to saddle a proletariat with taxes so that
> someone else can get a professional job?

Proletariat? Perhaps their chidren will benefit. Or it might train a
doctor who may treat them or their family. Or a manager who might go
on to help create a job for them.

>
> > > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > > a carpenter or a plumber,
>
> > How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?
>
> Apprenticeship.

Who are usually sent to an institution for technical education. Don't
you know that?

Dr. Barry Worthington

> > >pay taxes to send some else to college?
>
> > Yes. especially if it helped their children.
>
> > Dr. Barry Worthington
>
> > > > Canada would be a better place is the cost of one F-35 --- $790
> > > > million --- were to put some more people through college.- Hide quoted text -
>

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Barry]

On May 9, 7:07 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 10:01 am, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > > loans.
> > > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
> > It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
> > students with debt.
>
> No, it encourages kids to waste years of their lives getting worthless
> degrees, while saddling the British people with debt.

And how would an ignorant tosser know anything about that?

>
> > > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > > a carpenter or a plumber,
> > How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?
>
> Trade schools.  I'm all in favor of that.

Really?

>
> > >pay taxes to send some else to college?
> > Yes. especially if it helped their children.
>
> Americans have never spent more on education, and gotten so little.
> The entire corrupt institution needs a complete rethinking, and a lot
> of people fired.

Oh dear!

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Barry]

On May 9, 6:18 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 3:27 am, trainguard <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 8, 11:15 pm, "Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners" <Dog Meat : It's
> > What's for Obama's Dinner  @ White House.org> wrote:
>
> > > "Joe Cool" <joecool1...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:f5982208-f13c-4ee1...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > On May 8, 5:32 pm, Our President is Mentally Challenged
> > > > <ret...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> > > >>   Let these punks get a job or go in the military, Or not go to
> > > >> college.
>
> > > > Taxpayers do NOT pay for student loans, they do only for those who
> > > > default on them
> > > Student Loan Default Rates Rise Sharply in Past Year  you pathetic clueless
> > > babbling fucking asshole moron.
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html
> > In Britain, we quash loans after a set period if the ex-student does
> > not earn above a particular limit.
>

(Shite deleted.)

You are repeating yourself. Are you pissed?

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Barry]

They are not what we would consider Christians. Christianity is not
about attending church.

>
> >  go into teaching,
> > undertake vital academic research, become social workers, in fact,
> > follow what is usually deemed as a vocation.
>
> You mean people who can't hack it in the real world.

Like you?

>
> "Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and
> facilities; we didn't have to produce anything. You've never been out
> of college. I've worked in the private sector. [shrugs shoulders
> indignantly] They expect results."
>                                                   Ray Stantz:
>                                                   "Ghostbusters"

And ?

>
> >  I was writing about how,
> > in my country, such people usually end up having their student loans
> > written off.
>
> So, a guy spends eight years, and $200,000.00 to earn a Ph.D in The
> History of Socialism.

Postgraduate students do not qualify for student loans.

 >A decade later, he's still living in his step
> father attic, his only real accomplishment is liberating the
> dumbwaiter and renaming it "Freedonia".   The British people all chip
> in for this loser.

You appear to be losing your marbles....

Now do us all a favour and bugger off!

Dr. Barry Worthington

> > As to your point? All our universities (with one exception) are public
> > institutions, and receive grant aid from the government. Why? Well, it
> > is taken as a given that universities contribute both to the national
> > economy and the improvement and social cohesion of society by

> > producing graduates.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[jane]

On May 9, 2:33 pm, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 6:20 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 9, 1:01 pm, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > > > loans.
>
> > > > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
>
> > > It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
> > > students with debt.
>
> > SO, instead, you want to saddle a proletariat with taxes so that
> > someone else can get a professional job?
>
> Proletariat? Perhaps their chidren will benefit. Or it might train a
> doctor who may treat them or their family. Or a manager who might go
> on to help create a job for them.
>
>

The only way to eliminate the financial burden of the students is to
spread the cost over those who do not go advance schooling, the
proletariat.

Perhaps the proletariat's children won't benefit. If that is the
case, then the proletariat got cheated.
Saying that "Perhaps their chidren will benefit" is a poor
justification for making someone, the proletariat, pay for someone
else's schooling so that the doctor or the manager can make more
money than the proletariat.

The person who receives the financial benefit of advance education
should pay for it. The only way the proletariat doesn't get cheated
is when the proletariat pays for the other person's education when the
proletariat buys the products or services of the better educated
person.

>
> > > > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > > > a carpenter or a plumber,
>
> > > How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?
>
> > Apprenticeship.
>
> Who are usually sent to an institution for technical education. Don't
> you know that?

Sorry, but you are wrong. You do not need to go to any kind of school
to become a plumber or carpenter. I once worked as a carpenter's
apprentice and did not have to go to technical or trade school. I
used those two as examples because I know plumbers and carpenters who
did not go to school. If you are persistent in your belief that those
two jobs require technical/trade schooling, then pick any other
proletariate position such as lawn maintenance worker.

[wy]

Boy, you keep rolling in your own bullshit, don't you? So now you
worked as a carpenter's apprentice on top of the whole slew of other
jobs you've done while traveling the world and seeing everything and
yet, you keep coming back to posting nonsense on usenet. Why would
you want to do that? Can't find some other new work to tackle or
unexplored country to visit that would make your life more worthwhile
than typing ludicrous fantasies about yourself to people who don't
give a damn?

I
> used those two as examples because I know plumbers and carpenters who
> did not go to school. If you are persistent in your belief that those
> two jobs require technical/trade schooling, then  pick any other
> proletariate position such as lawn maintenance worker.

And now you're a communist with all this proletariat talk, too!
Sheesh.

[Richard Steel]

> > > There are two points here. The first is that not all graduates are
> > > employed in professions or occupations that pay well. Some become
> > > clergy (not the Oral Roberts type of minister),

> > Less than 2% of Britons attend Church regularly.  Why, exactly, are
> > the English people underwriting this clusterfuck disaster?

> >  Perhaps your clergy should attend a few classes at Oral Roberts
> > University....those guys know how to fill a pew.

> They are not what we would consider Christians.>

Less than 2% of your population attend Church. What you believe
really doesn't matter.

> Christianity is not
> about attending church.

There's a Commandment that says it is.

> > >  go into teaching,
> > > undertake vital academic research, become social workers, in fact,
> > > follow what is usually deemed as a vocation.

> > You mean people who can't hack it in the real world.

> Like you?

No, I said people who CAN'T hack it in the real world.

> > "Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and
> > facilities; we didn't have to produce anything. You've never been out
> > of college. I've worked in the private sector. [shrugs shoulders
> > indignantly] They expect results."
> >                                                   Ray Stantz:
> >                                                   "Ghostbusters"

> And ?

....and therefore universities have become a haven for dysfunctional
idiots who can't hack it in the real world.

> > >  I was writing about how,
> > > in my country, such people usually end up having their student loans
> > > written off.

> > So, a guy spends eight years, and $200,000.00 to earn a Ph.D in The
> > History of Socialism.

> Postgraduate students do not qualify for student loans.

>  >A decade later, he's still living in his step
>
> > father attic, his only real accomplishment is liberating the
> > dumbwaiter and renaming it "Freedonia".   The British people all chip
> > in for this loser.

> You appear to be losing your marbles....

Oh, right - you fascists consider disagreeing with you is a form of
mental illness.

[Richard Steel]

On May 9, 11:35 am, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 7:07 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 9, 10:01 am, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > > > loans.
> > > > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
> > > It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
> > > students with debt.
>
> > No, it encourages kids to waste years of their lives getting worthless
> > degrees, while saddling the British people with debt.
>
> And how would an ignorant tosser know anything about that?

Because, clearly, I'm not ignorant.

> > > > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > > > a carpenter or a plumber,
> > > How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?
>
> > Trade schools.  I'm all in favor of that.

> Really?

I think we should stop teaching multiculturalism, socialism, and other
Leftist nonsense, and go back to "shop classes".

> > > >pay taxes to send some else to college?
> > > Yes. especially if it helped their children.

> > Americans have never spent more on education, and gotten so little.
> > The entire corrupt institution needs a complete rethinking, and a lot
> > of people fired.

> Oh dear!

Britain will follow Americas lead. Eventually.

[wy]

On May 9, 6:05 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > There are two points here. The first is that not all graduates are
> > > > employed in professions or occupations that pay well. Some become
> > > > clergy (not the Oral Roberts type of minister),
> > > Less than 2% of Britons attend Church regularly.  Why, exactly, are
> > > the English people underwriting this clusterfuck disaster?
> > >  Perhaps your clergy should attend a few classes at Oral Roberts
> > > University....those guys know how to fill a pew.
> > They are not what we would consider Christians.>
>
> Less than 2% of your population attend Church.  What you believe
> really doesn't matter.
>
> >  Christianity is not
> > about attending church.
>
> There's a Commandment that says it is.

Nope. No such thing. Boy, you're stupid.

>
> > > >  go into teaching,
> > > > undertake vital academic research, become social workers, in fact,
> > > > follow what is usually deemed as a vocation.
> > > You mean people who can't hack it in the real world.
> > Like you?
>
> No, I said people who CAN'T hack it in the real world.

Yeah, like you.

>
> > > "Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and
> > > facilities; we didn't have to produce anything. You've never been out
> > > of college. I've worked in the private sector. [shrugs shoulders
> > > indignantly] They expect results."
> > >                                                   Ray Stantz:
> > >                                                   "Ghostbusters"
> > And ?
>
> ....and therefore universities have become a haven for dysfunctional
> idiots who can't hack it in the real world.

You forgot a qualifier - haven for dysfunctional right wingnut idiots

who can't hack it in the real world.


>
> > > >  I was writing about how,
> > > > in my country, such people usually end up having their student loans
> > > > written off.
> > > So, a guy spends eight years, and $200,000.00 to earn a Ph.D in The
> > > History of Socialism.
> > Postgraduate students do not qualify for student loans.
> >  >A decade later, he's still living in his step
>
> > > father attic, his only real accomplishment is liberating the
> > > dumbwaiter and renaming it "Freedonia".   The British people all chip
> > > in for this loser.
> > You appear to be losing your marbles....
>
> Oh, right - you fascists consider disagreeing with you is a form of
> mental illness.

The way you do it ... yeah.

Boy, you're stupid.

[wy]

On May 9, 6:00 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 11:35 am, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 9, 7:07 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 10:01 am, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > > > > loans.
> > > > > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
> > > > It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
> > > > students with debt.
>
> > > No, it encourages kids to waste years of their lives getting worthless
> > > degrees, while saddling the British people with debt.
>
> > And how would an ignorant tosser know anything about that?
>
> Because, clearly, I'm not ignorant.

Clearly, you're too ignorant to know if you're ignorant or not.

>
> > > > > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > > > > a carpenter or a plumber,
> > > > How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?
>
> > > Trade schools.  I'm all in favor of that.
> > Really?
>
> I think we should stop teaching multiculturalism, socialism, and other
> Leftist nonsense, and go back to "shop classes".

Yeah, that way everybody can aspire to digging ditches for a living
while smoking themselves to lung cancer and getting drunk and high on
weekends at strip clubs, all while beating up on their wives and kids
for getting on their nerves.

>
> > > > >pay taxes to send some else to college?
> > > > Yes. especially if it helped their children.
> > > Americans have never spent more on education, and gotten so little.
> > > The entire corrupt institution needs a complete rethinking, and a lot
> > > of people fired.
> > Oh dear!
>
> Britain will follow Americas lead.  Eventually.

Why would they? It's because of America's lead that Britain is in the
shape it's in.

Boy, you're stupid.

[Richard Steel]

> > > > Trade schools.  I'm all in favor of that.
> > > Really?

> > I think we should stop teaching multiculturalism, socialism, and other
> > Leftist nonsense, and go back to "shop classes".

> Yeah, that way everybody can aspire to digging ditches for a living...>

"Ditch diggers"? What is this, 1948?

> while smoking themselves to lung cancer and getting drunk and high on
> weekends at strip clubs, all while beating up on their wives and kids
> for getting on their nerves.

What utter contempt you have for people who do the dirty work society
desperately need to survive.

If 10% of those people disappeared, society would collapse. If you
and your ilk disappeared, the best that can be said is that nobody
would notice.

> > > > > >pay taxes to send some else to college?
> > > > > Yes. especially if it helped their children.
> > > > Americans have never spent more on education, and gotten so little.
> > > > The entire corrupt institution needs a complete rethinking, and a lot
> > > > of people fired.
> > > Oh dear!

> > Britain will follow Americas lead.  Eventually.

> Why would they?

Because Europe is collapsing. America will turn around as soon as we
kick Obama out.

BTW, did you see that 42% of West Virginian DEMOCRATS voted for a guy
in prison rather Obama?

[Richard Steel]

I'm responding to your repeated lies.

[Richard Steel]

On May 9, 3:24 pm, wy <w...@myself.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 6:05 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > There are two points here. The first is that not all graduates are
> > > > > employed in professions or occupations that pay well. Some become
> > > > > clergy (not the Oral Roberts type of minister),
> > > > Less than 2% of Britons attend Church regularly.  Why, exactly, are
> > > > the English people underwriting this clusterfuck disaster?
> > > >  Perhaps your clergy should attend a few classes at Oral Roberts
> > > > University....those guys know how to fill a pew.
> > > They are not what we would consider Christians.>
>
> > Less than 2% of your population attend Church.  What you believe
> > really doesn't matter.
>
> > >  Christianity is not
> > > about attending church.
>
> > There's a Commandment that says it is.
>
> Nope.  No such thing.

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

[wy]

On May 9, 6:47 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > Trade schools.  I'm all in favor of that.
> > > > Really?
> > > I think we should stop teaching multiculturalism, socialism, and other
> > > Leftist nonsense, and go back to "shop classes".
> > Yeah, that way everybody can aspire to digging ditches for a living...>
>
> "Ditch diggers"?  What is this, 1948?

That's what you want it to be. Sorry, but time moves on.

>
> > while smoking themselves to lung cancer and getting drunk and high on
> > weekends at strip clubs, all while beating up on their wives and kids
> > for getting on their nerves.
>
> What utter contempt you have for people who do the dirty work society
> desperately need to survive.

I love strippers. What's your problem with them?

>
> If 10% of those people disappeared, society would collapse.  If you
> and your ilk disappeared, the best that can be said is that nobody
> would notice.

If 10% disappeared, society would collapse? Well, hell, somebody tell
the Repugnants quick about this because they're the ones holding up
the jobs bill that would keep those 10% still working digging all
those ditches that need to be dug to improve the infrastructure.

[wy]

Nope, still says nothing about attending church.

[jane]

The word proletariat has its roots in Latin and goes back to Roman
times.


This isn't the first time you have had problems with word usage.

[Richard Steel]

Is it you position that 98% of Britian spends each and every Sunday in
deep family prayer?

[Richard Steel]

> > > > I think we should stop teaching multiculturalism, socialism, and other
> > > > Leftist nonsense, and go back to "shop classes".
> > > Yeah, that way everybody can aspire to digging ditches for a living...>

> > "Ditch diggers"?  What is this, 1948?

> That's what you want it to be.

When did I ever say that?

> > > while smoking themselves to lung cancer and getting drunk and high on
> > > weekends at strip clubs, all while beating up on their wives and kids
> > > for getting on their nerves.
>
> > What utter contempt you have for people who do the dirty work society
> > desperately need to survive.

> I love strippers.

That would be amusing....if you were 15. In your late 60s, it marks
you as a dottering, pathetic old fool.

Of course, I was talking about the people who grow food, drill for
oil, repair machines, catch fish, keep the sewers clean....real
work.

> > If 10% of those people disappeared, society would collapse.  If you
> > and your ilk disappeared, the best that can be said is that nobody
> > would notice.

> If 10% disappeared, society would collapse?

THAT portion of society? Bet your ass. You'd freeze and starve to
death in the dark in less than a week.

> Well, hell, somebody tell
> the Repugnants quick about this because they're the ones holding up
> the jobs bill that would keep those 10% still working digging all
> those ditches that need to be dug to improve the infrastructure.

Obama already had that bill. Where'd the money go? What was it spent
on?

[Rich Barkman]

Proletariate:

As defined in the Constitution of the Roman Republic, the proletarii
was a social class of Roman citizens owning little or no property.

Republicans!

[Rich Barkman]

"Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners" wrote:
> "Joe Cool" <joecool1...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f5982208-f13c-4ee1...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On May 8, 5:32 pm, Our President is Mentally Challenged
> > <ret...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >>   Let these punks get a job or go in the military, Or not go to
> >> college.
>
> > Taxpayers do NOT pay for student loans, they do only for those who
> > default on them
>
> Student Loan Default Rates Rise Sharply in Past Year  you pathetic clueless
> babbling fucking asshole moron.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html

Well, we all know what Karl Rove said about education, and how
rightist Americans blame "leftist" Historians and educators for
correctly portraying the right as fascists, should not be forgotten.

“As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they
have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be
too much of a good thing”

That's probably why there was a hilarious "debate" between the
validity of a good education and why it's not necessary in the
newsgroup talk.politics.guns. The rightists were anti-education and
none of them had more than high school.

If you want people to pay for every cent of their education, please
realize that it will be only the wealthy who will have it, or a few
like me, those who worked their asses off. Or perhaps those
socialists from the military like our forefathers who earned their
degrees under the US G. I. bill, or the Canadian equivalent. A
reward for serving their country in a time of war.

Why do you assholes believe that education is a leftist plot?

Is it because it's about inquisitive minds? People who think in more
than 1 dimension? Those who aren't gullible enough to think that
cause always equals causation? People who investigate the facts and
see that there are holes in lies like how John Lott Jr.'s "More Guns,
Less Crime" was a failure because he never produced the raw data? Yet
you argue the same about global warming!

Stop digging ditches. India is producing more engineers every year
than exist in all the residents of Texas alone. Yet Texas argues
that God and creation "theory" are part of the educational process.

What do you do all day? Spout lies and sit around fucking the dog.

You're what the US right is all about.

Hell, you're worse! You have never supported a right wing idea so
far! You're a fool.

From the evidence presented, you hate Obama and embrace the will of
Communist China, because you have never once said anything in favor of
the Republican Party of the USA.

[wy]

Boy, you ask stupid questions. I repeat: Nope, still says nothing
about attending church, regarding any commandment.

[wy]

Yeah, we know what your real usage of proletariat really is, and it's
got nothing to do with Latin.

[wy]

On May 9, 11:10 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > I think we should stop teaching multiculturalism, socialism, and other
> > > > > Leftist nonsense, and go back to "shop classes".
> > > > Yeah, that way everybody can aspire to digging ditches for a living...>
> > > "Ditch diggers"?  What is this, 1948?
> > That's what you want it to be.
>
> When did I ever say that?

"What is this, 1948?" How quickly you forget. Boy, you're stupid.

>
> > > > while smoking themselves to lung cancer and getting drunk and high on
> > > > weekends at strip clubs, all while beating up on their wives and kids
> > > > for getting on their nerves.
>
> > > What utter contempt you have for people who do the dirty work society
> > > desperately need to survive.
> > I love strippers.
>
> That would be amusing....if you were 15.  In your late 60s, it marks
> you as a dottering, pathetic old fool.

Beats hanging around with that plastic blow-up doll of yours that you
call a "wife".

>
> Of course, I was talking about the people who grow food, drill for
> oil, repair machines, catch fish, keep the sewers clean....real
> work.

Ahhh, so Romney really doesn't do real work. I told you so.

>
> > > If 10% of those people disappeared, society would collapse.  If you
> > > and your ilk disappeared, the best that can be said is that nobody
> > > would notice.
> > If 10% disappeared, society would collapse?
>
> THAT portion of society?  Bet your ass.  You'd freeze and starve to
> death in the dark in less than a week.

I survived the Ice Storm of '98 and that lasted a week in my area. So
that's another strikeout for you.

>
> > Well, hell, somebody tell
> > the Repugnants quick about this because they're the ones holding up
> > the jobs bill that would keep those 10% still working digging all
> > those ditches that need to be dug to improve the infrastructure.
>
> Obama already had that bill.  Where'd the money go?  What was it spent
> on?

Ask the states, they're the ones that got all the money. Oh, by the
way, aren't two-thirds of the states run by Repugnants? And they got
all that money? And you're wondering what happened to it? Hmmm....
Money ... Repugnants. What do you think happened to it?

[Roger Waters]

I recall that time well. It rained like hell in Toronto, the city of
Montreal and the outskirts were out of power for over a week because
of the ice. I traveled to Montreal just after and the stories of
survival in the cold without electricity were amazing. Michigan
hydro workers were there to assist until May, and when the big
hurricane hit in Florida a year or two later. Hydro Quebec was there
to help out too when people were helpless.

It's always great when people help each other out. And those two
cases were a fine example of cooperation, a treaty between two
countries that lends non military assistance in times of trouble.

[Dolores O'Riordan]

Steve <stevencan...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 May 2012 03:27:03 -0700 (PDT), trainguard

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
> >On May 8, 11:15 pm, "Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners" <Dog Meat : It's

> >What's for Obama's Dinner  @ White House.org> wrote:
> >> "Joe Cool" <joecool1...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:f5982208-f13c-4ee1...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On May 8, 5:32 pm, Our President is Mentally Challenged
> >> > <ret...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >>   Let these punks get a job or go in the military, Or not go to
> >> >> college.
>
> >> > Taxpayers do NOT pay for student loans, they do only for those who
> >> > default on them
>
> >> Student Loan Default Rates Rise Sharply in Past Year  you pathetic clueless
> >> babbling fucking asshole moron.
>
> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html
>

> >In Britain, we quash loans after a set period if the ex-student does

> >not earn above a particular limit. This is designed to benefit people
> >who perform socially necessary work in jobs that don't pay well. But
> >you wouldn't understand that....
>

> >Dr. Barry Worthington
>
> Leftists like it that losers get coddled..   That's because leftists
> are losers.

Leftists with MBA's, Engineering Degrees and so on.

I know leftists and rightists who hold doctorates and earned them the
old fashioned way, The Royal Military College and West Point.
Followed by several years of dedicated service to their nations.

What's with the myth that leftists are all socialists? Why is a
great capitalist like the founder of Virgin in the UK, who started his
game out of his car trunk, or perhaps Bill Gates considered a
"leftist" to you? Why is $billionaire Paul McCartney considered a
"leftist" to you, when that beer swilling old fart Ted Nugent is
considered a freaking "capitalist"?

Are you one of those morons who think that being a Republican in the
modern day USA ordains you as a capitalist, even when you have no idea
how to be rich?

"Everybody else is a Marxist because they don't listen to Rush or
watch Fox News!" is your attitude.

You don't even understand how capitalism works! You blame Obama for
a world recession and high oil prices! You are no better than an old
lady or an old man, whining about government because you know fuck
all.

The ignorance of right wing Americans is willful ignorance. You are
actually proud of your stupidity and worship those who lie to you.
You are the reason why the term "Progressive" is a slur. And Change
is a bad word.


Steve Canyon, you're a hillbilly who bragged about making $40 K a
year! And you think that you are with the elite! You're a freaking
donut salesman.

[Barry]

On May 9, 11:05 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > There are two points here. The first is that not all graduates are
> > > > employed in professions or occupations that pay well. Some become
> > > > clergy (not the Oral Roberts type of minister),
> > > Less than 2% of Britons attend Church regularly.  Why, exactly, are
> > > the English people underwriting this clusterfuck disaster?
> > >  Perhaps your clergy should attend a few classes at Oral Roberts
> > > University....those guys know how to fill a pew.
> > They are not what we would consider Christians.>
>
> Less than 2% of your population attend Church.  What you believe
> really doesn't matter.

Look, church attendance has nothing to do with Christianity! It would
help if you knew what a 'church' is......

> >  Christianity is not
> > about attending church.
>
> There's a Commandment that says it is.

Stop making things up!

Now sod off!

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Barry]

Nothing to do with attending church...I mean, churches did not exist
at the time.

And what did Jesus do on the Sabbath? Think very carefully about
this....


Dr. Barry Worthington

[Dolores O'Riordan]

Well, he sure wasn't the first Christian.

He was Jewish.

Who was the first Christian anyway?

[Barry]

When I see parents playing with their children in a park on Sunday, I
rather think that the Lord's day is beautified and kept holy...... but
I'm a Christian (I hope), not an American religious nutter....

[Barry]

On May 9, 8:08 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 2:33 pm, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 9, 6:20 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 1:01 pm, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 9, 5:19 pm, jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > > > > loans.
>
> > > > > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
>
> > > > It would encourage more kids to get a better education and not saddle
> > > > students with debt.
>
> > > SO, instead, you want to saddle a proletariat with taxes so that
> > > someone else can get a professional job?
>
> > Proletariat? Perhaps their chidren will benefit. Or it might train a
> > doctor who may treat them or their family. Or a manager who might go
> > on to help create a job for them.
>
> The only way to eliminate the financial burden of the students is to
> spread the cost over those who do not go advance schooling, the
> proletariat.

As we do for policing, the fire service, and (in my country)
health.....

>
> Perhaps the proletariat's children won't benefit.  If that is the
> case, then the proletariat got cheated.

Perhaps you will never be burgled. Hopefully, your house will never
burn down.

> Saying that "Perhaps their chidren will benefit" is a poor
> justification for making someone, the proletariat,  pay for someone
> else's schooling  so that the doctor or the manager can make more
> money than the proletariat.

And treat them. And perhaps create jobs.

You just have a one track mind informed by your sad little ideology!

>
> The person who receives the financial benefit of advance education
> should pay for it.

And if they can't?

 >The only way the proletariat

Why are you using this word? You are not a Marxist.

>doesn't get cheated
> is when the proletariat pays for the other person's education when the
> proletariat buys the products or services of the better educated
> person.

That's a very simple mind-set. We would call it 'grocer's
economics'.....

> > > > > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > > > > a carpenter or a plumber,
>
> > > > How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?
>
> > > Apprenticeship.
>
> > Who are usually sent to an institution for technical education. Don't
> > you know that?
>
> Sorry, but you are wrong.

Well, I spent a number of years teaching apprentices, so what would I
know?

>You do not need to go to any kind of school
> to become a plumber or carpenter. I once worked as a carpenter's
> apprentice and did not have to go to technical or trade school.

Well, most people do now! Employers don't want to train people if they
can help it!

>  I
> used those two as examples because I know plumbers and carpenters who
> did not go to school.

That may have been the case....in the past....

>If you are persistent in your belief that those
> two jobs require technical/trade schooling, then  pick any other
> proletariate position such as lawn maintenance worker.

I have lectured on greenkeeping courses too!

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Dolores O'Riordan]

If Benny Hinn's Ministry doesn't have your Visa number on file, I
can't see how you can be a Protestant Christian in the USA.

That's part of what they will say against Obama when he's impeached.

[Richard Steel]

Boy, you're incapable of answering fair questions.

[Richard Steel]

But it has nothing to do with Christianity, of course.

> but
> I'm a Christian (I hope), not an American religious nutter....

You don't go to Church, you hate Christians who does what the Bible
commands, you write torture porn which are thinly designed death
threats, you're condescending, arrogant and have complete contempt for
anyone who doesn't share your small world views.

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and
hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many
people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will
grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. . . . For
false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs
and miracles to deceive even the elect – if that were possible. See, I
have told you ahead of time"
(Matthew ;24 NIV).

[Richard Steel]

> If Benny Hinn's Ministry doesn't have your Visa number on file, I
> can't see how you can be a Protestant Christian in the USA.

> That's part of what they will say against Obama when he's impeached.

No, it will have something to do with the fact that his administration
gave thousands of military grade semi-automatic assault rifles to
insane drug cartel members which resulted in the deaths of at least
300 North Americans - all to help the Democrats pass more gun control
laws.

[Richard Steel]

On May 9, 10:47 pm, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 11:43 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 9, 3:24 pm, wy <w...@myself.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 9, 6:05 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > There are two points here. The first is that not all graduates are
> > > > > > > employed in professions or occupations that pay well. Some become
> > > > > > > clergy (not the Oral Roberts type of minister),
> > > > > > Less than 2% of Britons attend Church regularly.  Why, exactly, are
> > > > > > the English people underwriting this clusterfuck disaster?
> > > > > >  Perhaps your clergy should attend a few classes at Oral Roberts
> > > > > > University....those guys know how to fill a pew.
> > > > > They are not what we would consider Christians.>
>
> > > > Less than 2% of your population attend Church.  What you believe
> > > > really doesn't matter.
>
> > > > >  Christianity is not
> > > > > about attending church.
>
> > > > There's a Commandment that says it is.
>
> > > Nope.  No such thing.
>
> > FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'
>
> Nothing to do with attending church...I mean, churches did not exist
> at the time.

"Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and
selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the
benches of those selling doves."

Are you saying that 98% of England spends Sunday behind closed doors
fasting and in deep prayer?

[Richard Steel]

On May 9, 10:44 pm, Barry <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 11:05 pm, Richard Steel <rsteel2...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > There are two points here. The first is that not all graduates are
> > > > > employed in professions or occupations that pay well. Some become
> > > > > clergy (not the Oral Roberts type of minister),
> > > > Less than 2% of Britons attend Church regularly.  Why, exactly, are
> > > > the English people underwriting this clusterfuck disaster?
> > > >  Perhaps your clergy should attend a few classes at Oral Roberts
> > > > University....those guys know how to fill a pew.
> > > They are not what we would consider Christians.>
>
> > Less than 2% of your population attend Church.  What you believe
> > really doesn't matter.
>
> Look, church attendance has nothing to do with Christianity! It would
> help if you knew what a 'church' is......
>
> > >  Christianity is not
> > > about attending church.
>
> > There's a Commandment that says it is.
>
> Stop making things up!

Stop making excuses.

[trainguard]

It has everthing to do with it! But I doubt that you know what
Christianity is.....most of your sort don't....

>
> > but
> > I'm a Christian (I hope), not an American religious nutter....
>
> You don't go to Church, you hate Christians who does what the Bible
> commands, you write torture porn which are thinly designed death
> threats, you're condescending, arrogant and have complete contempt for
> anyone who doesn't share your small world views.

I have contempt for an ignorant shitbag with a mind like a sewer. I
have contempt for you!

>
> "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and
> hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many
> people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will
> grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. . . . For
> false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs
> and miracles to deceive even the elect – if that were possible. See, I
> have told you ahead of time"
>                            (Matthew ;24 NIV).

And most of them appear to be in North America......

[Richard Steel]

.
> > > > > Yeah, that way everybody can aspire to digging ditches for a living...>

> > > > "Ditch diggers"?  What is this, 1948?

> > > That's what you want it to be.
>
> > When did I ever say that?

> "What is this, 1948?"

Where's the part where I said everyone should be a ditch digger?

> > > > > while smoking themselves to lung cancer and getting drunk and high on
> > > > > weekends at strip clubs, all while beating up on their wives and kids
> > > > > for getting on their nerves.

> > > > What utter contempt you have for people who do the dirty work society
> > > > desperately need to survive.
> > > I love strippers.

> > That would be amusing....if you were 15.  In your late 60s, it marks
> > you as a dottering, pathetic old fool.

> Beats hanging around with that plastic blow-up doll of yours that you
> call a "wife".

Here's the difference - I do have a wife, and you are alone.

And none of your hysterical lies will change that.

> > Of course, I was talking about the people who grow food, drill for
> > oil, repair machines, catch fish, keep the sewers clean....real
> > work.

> Ahhh, so Romney really doesn't do real work.

My, my. Four years ago, you and your ilk ridiculed Sarah Palin
because she came from a working class background. Now you demand. Of
Republicans, I mean. Not Obama.

> > > > If 10% of those people disappeared, society would collapse.  If you
> > > > and your ilk disappeared, the best that can be said is that nobody
> > > > would notice.
> > > If 10% disappeared, society would collapse?
>
> > THAT portion of society?  Bet your ass.  You'd freeze and starve to
> > death in the dark in less than a week.

> I survived the Ice Storm of '98 and that lasted a week in my area.

And what would have happened after the food was gone?

> > > Well, hell, somebody tell
> > > the Repugnants quick about this because they're the ones holding up
> > > the jobs bill that would keep those 10% still working digging all
> > > those ditches that need to be dug to improve the infrastructure.

> > Obama already had that bill.  Where'd the money go?  What was it spent
> > on?

> Ask the states, they're the ones that got all the money.

Obama should be pointing that out. And yet, there's nothing much to
point to, is there.

So, where the fuck did the money go?

[Richard Steel]

Excuse me, you should talk to Wy - what he wrote about those people
who saved your life was "Yeah, that way everybody can aspire to
digging ditches for a living while smoking themselves to lung cancer

and getting drunk and high on weekends at strip clubs, all while
beating up on their wives and kids for getting on their nerves. "

You've got quite a charming friend there, Roger.

[trainguard]

That was the Temple in Jerusalem, the centre of the pre-Talmudic
national cult.

He didn't like the commercialisation of religious faith and worship.
Something that people like you do....

>
> Are you saying that 98% of England spends Sunday behind closed doors
> fasting and in deep prayer?

You don't really understand what worship is, do you?

Each one of the happy couple promise (well in my faith they do) before
the altar "with my body I thee worship..."

I think that if I spelled that out, your tiny little head would
explode!

[jane]

A society realizes that there are certain socialist aspects that are
needed to protect the "society". As a result of this need, we have
created certain socialist jobs such as the police and the military.
We have recently had a case before our Supreme Court because the
police failed to protect an individual. The Supreme Court ruled that
the police is there to protect society and NOT the individual. If you
want individual protection, hire your own body guard or pay for your
own home security system.

> > Saying that "Perhaps their chidren will benefit" is a poor
> > justification for making someone, the proletariat,  pay for someone
> > else's schooling  so that the doctor or the manager can make more
> > money than the proletariat.
>
> And treat them. And perhaps create jobs.
>
> You just have a one track mind informed by your sad little ideology!
>
>
>
> > The person who receives the financial benefit of advance education
> > should pay for it.
>
> And if they can't?

I was one of those people. Rather than me going into my own
biographical educational event, read about this guy:
http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/debt-free-u/

Then read his book:
http://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Outstanding-Education-Scholarships-orMooching/dp/1591842980/

>
>  >The only way the proletariat
>
> Why are you using this word? You are not a Marxist.
>

Proletariat is not a word limited to Marxists. I used it as a very
generic word to describe the labor class. To keep you happy, I will
use the term labor class.

> >doesn't get cheated
> > is when the proletariat pays for the other person's education when the
> > proletariat buys the products or services of the better educated
> > person.
>
> That's a very simple mind-set. We would call it 'grocer's
> economics'.....
>

That's funny; over here, we call it free enterprise.

> > > > > > How do you justify making a person who doesn't go to college, such as
> > > > > > a carpenter or a plumber,
>
> > > > > How do you think carpenters and plumbers are trained?
>
> > > > Apprenticeship.
>
> > > Who are usually sent to an institution for technical education. Don't
> > > you know that?
>
> > Sorry, but you are wrong.
>
> Well, I spent a number of years teaching apprentices, so what would I
> know?
>
> >You do not need to go to any kind of school
> > to become a plumber or carpenter. I once worked as a carpenter's
> > apprentice and did not have to go to technical or trade school.
>
> Well, most people do now! Employers don't want to train people if they
> can help it!
>
> >  I
> > used those two as examples because I know plumbers and carpenters who
> > did not go to school.
>
> That may have been the case....in the past....
>
> >If you are persistent in your belief that those
> > two jobs require technical/trade schooling, then  pick any other
> > proletariate position such as lawn maintenance worker.
>
> I have lectured on greenkeeping courses too!
>
> Dr. Barry Worthington
>
>
>

I didn't say that there are NO trade classes for electricians or
plumbers. Read my sentence after your comment, "You do not [NEED] to

go to any kind of school to become a plumber or carpenter."

The electrician and the plumber are the ones who benefit from their
education. As a result, they should pay for their own education, not
the labor class. If they can not afford it, then they should wait
tables in the evening while they attend trade school in the day. If
the employer can not find enough educated tradesmen, then the employer
will benefit by hiring an apprentice and the employer should either
educate the person through an apprenticeship or by paying for the
trade school. I know several companies that do this. I also know
companies that will pay for college courses for their professional
employees if that course is job related.

You think that my opinion is "a very simple mind-set", but that is
because you are self professed socialist (based on my recollection of
a prior post of yours). If the labor class pays for the college
education of the upper class, then the labor class has a right to a
portion of that professional's labor; "From each according to his
ability, to each according to his need" .

[wy]

No, we want to know about your own biographical educational event
instead, so spew it.



> Then read his book:http://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Outstanding-Education-Scholarships-or...

>
>
>
> >  >The only way the proletariat
>
> > Why are you using this word? You are not a Marxist.
>
> Proletariat is not a word limited to Marxists.  I used it as a very
> generic word to describe the labor class.  To keep you happy, I will
> use the term labor class.

Why do you use class? That's very communistic of you again. You sure
you're not a communist?

>
> > >doesn't get cheated
> > > is when the proletariat pays for the other person's education when the
> > > proletariat buys the products or services of the better educated
> > > person.
>
> > That's a very simple mind-set. We would call it 'grocer's
> > economics'.....
>
> That's funny; over here, we call it free enterprise.

What if there aren't enough people buying products to make higher
education possible for the store owner's kid? In fact, why does
practically every kid who goes to university end up in deep debt over
it, even with parents footing some of the bill?

So you're concept of life is all about denial and not aspiration.
Nice.

> If
> the employer can not find enough educated tradesmen, then the employer
> will benefit by hiring an apprentice and the employer should either
> educate the person through an apprenticeship or by paying for the
> trade school.  I know several companies that do this.

Very few companies do that these days. You've been out of the work
force for quite a while, haven't you?

 I also know
> companies that will pay for college courses for their professional
> employees if that course is job related.

Name those companies, and it had better be a lengthy list, not just a
handful. Handfuls mean nothing to millions of unemployed or untrained
people.

>
> You think that my opinion is "a very simple mind-set",

He may think, but he's being kind. I think it's idiotically brain-
dead.

> but that is
> because you are self professed socialist (based on my recollection of
> a prior post of yours).

See? Name calling as a way to dismiss the views of someone else.
That's idiotically brain-dead as opposed to presenting any well-
reasoned counter-argument as to why his opinion isn't superior to
yours.

> If the labor class pays for the college
> education of the upper class, then the labor class has a right to a
> portion of that professional's labor; "From each according to his
> ability, to each according to his need" .

You are a communist. I knew it.

[Richard Steel]

It has NOTHING to do with Christianity.

> But I doubt that you know what
> Christianity is.....most of your sort don't....

My sort being folks who are not gullible fools.

> > > but
> > > I'm a Christian (I hope), not an American religious nutter....
>
> > You don't go to Church, you hate Christians who does what the Bible
> > commands, you write torture porn which are thinly designed death
> > threats, you're condescending, arrogant and have complete contempt for
> > anyone who doesn't share your small world views.

> I have contempt for an ignorant shitbag with a mind like a sewer. I
> have contempt for you!

You have contempt for ANYONE who stands up to your hypocrisy. You're
a weak bully.

> > "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and
> > hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many
> > people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will
> > grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. . . . For
> > false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs
> > and miracles to deceive even the elect – if that were possible. See, I
> > have told you ahead of time"
> >                            (Matthew ;24 NIV).

> And most of them appear to be in North America......

And while you sneer a living Christianity, Churches in England are
being turned into shopping malls.

[Richard Steel]

And why do you believe Jesus would say when He saw HIs churches
converted to shopping mall, and 98% of England spending Sunday in pubs
and such.

> > Are you saying that 98% of England spends Sunday behind closed doors
> > fasting and in deep prayer?

> You don't really understand what worship is, do you?

I do know that you're dancing around wildly.

> Each one of the happy couple promise (well in my faith they do) before
> the altar "with my body I thee worship..."

You don't have a faith. You have a list of excuses.

> I think that if I spelled that out, your tiny little head would
> explode!

You really believe this 60s retread nonsense is "mind blowing"?

[Barry]

Socialist?

> As a result of this need, we have
> created certain socialist

Socialist?

>jobs such as the police and the military.
> We have recently had a case before our Supreme Court because the
> police failed to protect an individual. The Supreme Court ruled that
> the police is there to protect society and NOT the individual.  If you
> want individual protection, hire your own body guard or pay for your
> own home security system.

'Society' does not exist. It is an abstract concept describing a group
of people. 'Society' is composed of individuals.

>
> > > Saying that "Perhaps their children will benefit" is a poor

> > > justification for making someone, the proletariat,  pay for someone
> > > else's schooling  so that the doctor or the manager can make more
> > > money than the proletariat.
>
> > And treat them. And perhaps create jobs.
>
> > You just have a one track mind informed by your sad little ideology!
>
> > > The person who receives the financial benefit of advance education
> > > should pay for it.
>
> > And if they can't?
>
> I was one of those people.  Rather than me going into my own
> biographical educational event, read about this guy:http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/debt-free-u/
>

> Then read his book:http://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Outstanding-Education-Scholarships-or...

Sorry, but you are starting to sound like a nutter.....

> >  >The only way the proletariat
>
> > Why are you using this word? You are not a Marxist.
>
> Proletariat is not a word limited to Marxists.  I used it as a very
> generic word to describe the labor class.  To keep you happy, I will
> use the term labor class.
>
> > >doesn't get cheated
> > > is when the proletariat pays for the other person's education when the
> > > proletariat buys the products or services of the better educated
> > > person.
>
> > That's a very simple mind-set. We would call it 'grocer's
> > economics'.....
>
> That's funny; over here, we call it free enterprise.

Yes....and there are fairies at the bottom of my garden!

Ah....moving goal-posts!

>
> The electrician and the plumber are the ones who benefit from their
> education.  As a result, they should pay for their own education, not
> the labor class.  If they can not afford it, then they should wait
> tables in the evening while they attend trade school in the day.  If
> the employer can not find enough educated tradesmen, then the employer
> will benefit by hiring an apprentice and the employer should either
> educate the person through an apprenticeship or by paying for the
> trade school.  I know several companies that do this.  I also know
> companies that will pay for college courses for their professional
> employees if that course is job related.
>
> You think that my opinion is "a very simple mind-set",  but that is
> because you are self professed socialist (based on my recollection of
> a prior post of yours).  If the labor class pays for the college
> education of the upper class, then the labor class has a right to a
> portion of that professional's labor; "From each according to his
> ability, to each according to his need" .
>
>

It must be a great comfort to inhabit such a world as yours........

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Barry]

Actually, I would expect to find him in a pub.....

>
> > > Are you saying that 98% of England spends Sunday behind closed doors
> > > fasting and in deep prayer?
> > You don't really understand what worship is, do you?
>
> I do know that you're dancing around wildly.
>
> > Each one of the happy couple promise (well in my faith they do) before
> > the altar "with my body I thee worship..."
>
> You don't have a faith.  You have a list of excuses.
>
> > I think that if I spelled that out, your tiny little head would
> > explode!
>
> You really believe this 60s retread nonsense is "mind blowing"?

Ah....you didn't realise what the extract from the marriage service
means....so your head is still intact.....

[Wayne]

<Yoor...@Jurgis.net> wrote in message
news:gbhlq7tt8ftqvs3bp...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 9 May 2012 08:34:18 -0700, "Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>And perhaps those low level jobs don't require a college education.
>
> amended:
>
> More than a high school education
-
Many, many well paying jobs require nothing more than a high school
education. ...and some don't require that.

I certainly admire and encourage those who want to go on in higher
education. However, it appears that there is a common expectation that high
school graduates will go to college, go to debt, and live in their parent's
basement until they are a minimum of 26 years old. This allows airheaded
high school grads time to figure out where there life is going. I have no
interest in financing their slacker life.

[trainguard]

On May 13, 5:05 pm, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote:
> <Yoorg...@Jurgis.net> wrote in message
>
> news:gbhlq7tt8ftqvs3bp...@4ax.com...> On Wed, 9 May 2012 08:34:18 -0700, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net>

> > wrote:
>
> >>And perhaps those low level jobs don't require a college education.
>
> > amended:
>
> > More than a high school education
>
> -
> Many, many well paying jobs require nothing more than a high school
> education.  ...and some don't require that.
>
> I certainly admire and encourage those who want to go on in higher
> education.  However, it appears that there is a common expectation that high
> school graduates will go to college, go to debt, and live in their parent's
> basement until they are a minimum of 26 years old.  This allows airheaded
> high school grads  time to figure out where there life is going.  I have no
> interest in financing their slacker life.

Well, Wayne. It's like this. People who have the experience of a
Higher Education, did it to avoid becoming like you....

(And that is not meant as an insult...just think about it.....)

Dr. Barry Worthington

[Wayne]

"Barry" wrote in message
news:69d85124-d252-488b...@cl4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

On May 9, 4:34 pm, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "trainguard" <barry_worthing...@sky.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b649bf2c-7e41-4f13...@z14g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

> On May 8, 11:15 pm, "Obama's Sauteed Dog Leg Dinners" <Dog Meat : It's
> What's for Obama's Dinner @ White House.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Joe Cool" <joecool1...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:f5982208-f13c-4ee1...@9g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On May 8, 5:32 pm, Our President is Mentally Challenged
> > > <ret...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> > >> Let these punks get a job or go in the military, Or not go to
> > >> college.
>
> > > Taxpayers do NOT pay for student loans, they do only for those who
> > > default on them
>
> > Student Loan Default Rates Rise Sharply in Past Year you pathetic
> > clueless
> > babbling fucking asshole moron.
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/education/13loans.html
>

> # In Britain, we quash loans after a set period if the ex-student does
> # not earn above a particular limit. This is designed to benefit people
> # who perform socially necessary work in jobs that don't pay well. But
> # you wouldn't understand that....
> #
> # Dr. Barry Worthington

>
> And perhaps those low level jobs don't require a college education.

# Nursing? Teaching? Social work?

Nurses and teachers in the US are pretty fairly compensated. Social
workers....depending on what they do, may or may not deserve a living wage.

[trainguard]

Compared to what?

>Social
> workers....depending on what they do, may or may not deserve a living wage.

'Deserve'?

If we all got what we 'deserve'.....that's an interesting idea.......

[Wayne]

"trainguard" wrote in message
news:d1b2a28b-38e3-4d06...@l5g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...

# Compared to what?

Compared with people who aren't nurses and teachers. I have a niece who
recently graduated from nursing school and started at $70,000. I don't
consider that underpaid.

But compare that with a liberal arts major who ran up $50,000 in student
loans, has no job prospects, but is comfortably living at home, hoping that
the government forgives the loan.

[trainguard]

Like those who work in the Finance industry?

> I have a niece who
> recently graduated from nursing school and started at $70,000.  I don't
> consider that underpaid.

It depends very much where she was working......

>
> But compare that with a liberal arts major who ran up $50,000 in student
> loans, has no job prospects, but is comfortably living at home, hoping that
> the government forgives the loan.

Ah...the person who resides in your imagination?

[jane]

On May 15, 12:19 am, "Chine Bleu, Russie Blanche, et Khmer Rouge"
<chine.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <0642efed-b883-4acb-bd99-362fec039...@j16g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,

>
>  jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > SO, instead, you want to saddle a proletariat with taxes so that
> > someone else can get a professional job?
>

> Why not raise taxes on the rich so they pay out of their profits from hiring
> professionals?
>
> --
> My name Indigo Montoya.      |    R'lyeh 38o57'6.5''S 102o51'16''E.
> You flamed my father.        |       I'm whoever you want me to be.
> Prepare to be spanked.       |  Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
> Stop posting that!           |    At least I can stay in character.

Your statement needs a lot of clarification. First, not all rich
people hire professionals. Second, you mentioned the word, profits,
so I presume that you are actually talking about taxing businesses,
not "the rich". Third, less than half of corporations doing business
in the US have profits.

NOW, based on certain presumptions regarding your post, your
description is actually what happens in the real world: The
individual invests in himself by paying for his own education; he then
sells his value to a company; that company then pays him for the
"added value" of his education and that employee is reimbursed,
through his salary, for his education.

The only difference between the real world and what you propose is
that you want the inefficient bureaucratic government acting as a
middleman.

In the real world, the business pays for the education that directly
affects its profits; in the government middleman method, the high tech
company will pay for an individual's beauty school education.

[jane]

On May 15, 12:15 am, "Chine Bleu, Russie Blanche, et Khmer Rouge"
<chine.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <3cfe5145-7420-476c-8204-6c838cdbc...@c30g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,

>
>  jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > loans.
>
> > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
>

> Uh....yeah. Businesses are starting to get worried.

Please provide a citation that businesses are worried.

I seriously doubt your premise[1]. Right now, there are a lot of long
term unemployed and under employed (U6 BLS stats) professionals. So,
in addition to the new graduates, there is a large supply of
unemployed experienced professionals.

IF your premise is correct, then the companies will react by hiring
more internships and paying for college courses related to their
business.


Citations:
1. The Bureau of Labor Statistics has consistently projected that the
number of college graduates in the U.S. labor market will continue to
match (or exceed) the number of job openings requiring college
education.

[jane]

On May 15, 9:46 am, "Chine Bleu, Russie Blanche, et Khmer Rouge"
<chine.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <ef6d7111-5177-4c30-bb49-88999e5f3...@s5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,

> So you want to saddle the poor with the entire tax burden.
>


NO, I am not proposing a TAX. I am proposing that the individual who
wants to better himself, invest in himself.

I am not a capitalist purist. I understand that a low income
individual may not be able to obtain a loan in the capitalist
environment. As a result, the "government aspect" of me believes that
the government should provide student loans so that low income
individuals can invest in themselves with the government provided
loan. A tax is not needed because the individual pays back the loan.

I know a low income individual who obtained a government student loan,
obtained a professional degree, and was hired right out of college by
a major high tech company.

I also know another student who expected to go to college and who's
parents could pay the tuition. The parents suffered a crisis and were
no longer able to pay the tuition. That student worked and saved
through high school. That individual continued working through
college and got a rather high paying job during college because of
past experience and the education received. After that individual
graduated and got a professional job, the person continued with
graduate courses at night. The person ended up with a college
education, a high paying job, and NO loan; it can be done!

BTW: those two individuals are married (to each other)









> Also it costs a business if it trains someone who then immediately leaves. See
> also: Tragedy of the Commons.

[jane]

On May 15, 10:08 am, "Chine Bleu, Russie Blanche, et Khmer Rouge"
<chine.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <77cec3eb-944f-48b3-9d40-df0b6c614...@s5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 15, 12:15 am, "Chine Bleu, Russie Blanche, et Khmer Rouge"
> > <chine.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <3cfe5145-7420-476c-8204-6c838cdbc...@c30g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > >  jane <jane.pla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 9, 10:40 am, Nexus <brafi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On May 9, 5:44 am, Liberals are VERMIN <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > All education should be free for the person studying; ie grants, not
> > > > > loans.
>
> > > > Why? Do we have a shortage of students going to college?
>
> > > Uh....yeah. Businesses are starting to get worried.
>
> > Please provide a citation that businesses are worried.
>
> > I seriously doubt your premise[1].  Right now, there are a lot of long
> > term unemployed and under employed (U6 BLS stats) professionals.  So,
>

> I guess you're not familar with actual businesses like Microsoft, Intel, etc.
> Actually any company that sponsors an H1B can only legally do so if no domestic
> candidates are qualified.

>
> --
> My name Indigo Montoya.      |    R'lyeh 38o57'6.5''S 102o51'16''E.
> You flamed my father.        |       I'm whoever you want me to be.
> Prepare to be spanked.       |  Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
> Stop posting that!           |    At least I can stay in character.

Yes, I am familiar with the H1B visas. You didn't provide a citation
indicating that the companies are worried.