Ahmadinejad on Holocaust
yp
This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
should Palestinians pay for the Holocaust if indeed it happened? Why
can't people study the Holocaust independently of Jewish claims, using
modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
world had more such leaders.
Kixi...@hotmail.com
Some of the Moslem countries could have a faculty of jewish holocaust
studies in their universities. They could examine the controversy and
include scientific investigations.
You don't suppose the Holocaust Industry would oppose that do you?
Tom P
He makes some interesting points!
The main point in this interview is: Why are the Palestinians persecuted
for the Holocaust? Why should they be displaced and lose their land?
Those questions will never be answered.
Seon Ferguson
"Tom P" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:zC%ul.84009$2O4....@newsfe03.iad...
The Palestinian people didn't even vote for Hitler.
Montevideo@gmail.com Eliot Montevideo
Antisemitic ravings & Terrorist propaganda
johannes
Not just Jewish claims, but numbers neatly recorded by the Nazis. Full facts
were available over 60 years ago, so why suddenly change history? Modern
technologies are more likely to obfuscate. Old documents/pictures/films are
more difficult to forge. Why are you so sure that Ahmadinejad "tells the
truth"? You weren't there. It doesn't matter what he says; nobody can change
history. People can believe in a flat Earth if they want, I don't care.
Peter Webb
"johannes" <jo...@sizef33636365itter.com> wrote in message
news:49BCE7C2...@sizef33636365itter.com...
And there are still tens of thousands of eye witnesses left alive.
That's the strange thing about Holocaust deniers. If they want, they can ask
people who were actually there; thousands of them if they want. Are they
claiming they are all liars, as are the many more people who have told their
story but died since WW2 ?
Its as plausible as claiming that a nuclear bomb wasn't dropped on Hiroshima
in WW2. They have about the same number of eye-witnesses, the same level of
physical evidence, the same level of documentary evidence (if you include
the Manhattan project as well), and you can still talk to about the same
number of people who actually saw it happen.
Yet nobody denies that an atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima - cranks are
so unimaginative.
johannes
The deniers possibly aren't really interested in what happened, they might even
know the facts. It's more like a game in the kindergarten; one child gets more
attention, the other child will say that she's fat or ugly.
Lee
"johannes" <jo...@sizef4647478785itter.com> wrote in message
news:49BD194C...@sizef4647478785itter.com...
Both muslims and ww2 nazis are both unable to tell the truth for more than
2-3% of the time because they are both weak and dishonest ideologies
dependent on ignorance to spread.
Johannes Andersen
ww2 nazis told the truth; look up Adolf Eichman in Wikipedia, he cited the
figure six millions killed. Many have later admitted in documentaries, some
with remorse, that they took part in the unimaginable events. It happened,
alright. Just like Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened, but we don't drone on
about it, those were historic events long time ago.
yp
> Peter Webb wrote:
>
> > "johannes" <j...@sizef33636365itter.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
But the fact is that in some ways I was there and I did ask people who
were there. My own father was in a German concentration camp and he
was released only just days before the war ended. To prove it I attach
his release document from which I removed the family name for obvious
reasons. Well, I did ask my father about his long stay in that
concentration camp, and I did receive plenty of answers. But the main
point is that there were various nationalities in that camp, including
Jews, and my father told me that although the conditions were horrible
for all, Jews were not treated differently from other inmates and
certainly were not exterminated because of their nationality. And many
other non-Jewish prisoners of such camps have said the same thing.
That is why a more thorough study of the camps is justified.
johannes
I think nothing has been studied more thoroughly after the events, given
the scale of the extermination (recorded and documented) and the misery
found when allied troops entered the camps. It not an archeological
discovery, as you seem to imply.
Peter Webb
"yp" <yp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:21e127d7-c3fd-4e2b...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
*****************
I don't think that anybody has denied that other people were also
systematically murdered by the Germans. This is also a well researched and
well understood part of modern history, even if it is news to you.
BTW, not everybody killed in Hiroshima was Japanese. That hardly proves that
an atomic bomb was not dropped, does it?
Morbid Fungus
<webbfam...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
> "johannes" <j...@sizef33636365itter.com> wrote in message
>
> news:49BCE7C2...@sizef33636365itter.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > yp wrote:
>
> >> Iran's President Ahmadinejad makes excellent points about Holocaust.
> >> This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
> >> should Palestinians pay for the Holocaust if indeed it happened? Why
> >> can't people study the Holocaust independently of Jewish claims, using
> >> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
> >> world had more such leaders.
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY&feature=related
>
> > Not just Jewish claims, but numbers neatly recorded by the Nazis. Full
> > facts
> > were available over 60 years ago, so why suddenly change history? Modern
> > technologies are more likely to obfuscate. Old documents/pictures/films
> > are
> > more difficult to forge. Why are you so sure that Ahmadinejad "tells the
> > truth"? You weren't there. It doesn't matter what he says; nobody can
> > change
> > history. People can believe in a flat Earth if they want, I don't care.
>
> And there are still tens of thousands of eye witnesses left alive.
>
> That's the strange thing about Holocaust deniers. If they want, they can ask
> people who were actually there; thousands of them if they want. Are they
> claiming they are all liars, as are the many more people who have told their
> story but died since WW2 ?
>
That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
showing off those phony tattoos (the Germans did not tattoo inmates at
any camp). Many other people who spent time at the camps, the nonJews
who were actually there, were asked about their experiences; they saw
no Holocaust. It seems that only Jews saw a Holocaust.
Tom P
You are straying from statements made in the interview. Ahmadinejad asks
the question: What did the Palestinians do to the Jews? Why are they
being punished for the Holocaust?
The Palestinian people have received the wrath of Israel for the last 60
years. Why?
That is the point of this post. If you can't answer the question,
deflect or ignore the question. That will be answer enough.
Lee
"Johannes Andersen" <jo...@sizefitter.com> wrote in message
news:49BD3EE1...@sizefitter.com...
The holocaust evidence is overwhelming, the ww2 nazis did not tell the truth
to the German people though about Jews no more than the Iranian poison dwarf
Ahmadinejad does in present times.
With such outrageous and inhuman policies.The German leaders had to lie to
the population to gain power
The Doctor
JQuebecois, Anarchore and the other revisionist loons around here.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Never Satan President Republic!
Point to http://tv.cityonahillproductions.com/
Kenneth McVay OBC
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
[...]
>That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
>witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
>camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
Please document your claim that the witnesses who describe mass murder at
the German-run concentration camps were "virtually" all Jews.
Explain how you determined that the perpetrators who agreed with the
survivors (Jewish and Gentile) were German national Gentiles.
I'll wait.
--
"...the antisemite is immune to refutation from either facts or logic.
An antisemite has chosen to live in hatred, without regard to either
facts or logic." (Matas, David. Bloody Speech, p. 37)
The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org
B.H. Cramer
"Kenneth McVay OBC" <kmc...@shell.vex.net> wrote in message
news:4audnWIt5MY9ZCDU...@vex.net...
> In article
> <7fb753c2-82ea-4201...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
> Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
>>witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
>>camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
>
> Please document your claim that the witnesses who describe mass murder at
> the German-run concentration camps were "virtually" all Jews.
>
> Explain how you determined that the perpetrators who agreed with the
> survivors (Jewish and Gentile) were German national Gentiles.
>
> I'll wait.
You ask the most ridiculous questions, mcFey. Questions based on semantics.
Here's a couple for you:
Name all those jews allegedly murdered by the Nazis
Provide their date of birth
Provide their blood type
Provide their underwear size
I'll wait.
StarDust
> In article <7fb753c2-82ea-4201-9070-24337ef5a...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Half Jews, quarter Jews, converted Jews, Jews converted to other
religion?
I'll wait!
JS
mir...@actcom.co.il
http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/stories/death-camps.htm
Ike and the Death Camps
As Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces in World War
II, General Eisenhower had been given information about the Nazi
concentration camp system well before he led the invasion to liberate
Western Europe (June, 1944). Reports on the massive genocide inflicted
on Jews, Gypsies, political prisoners, homosexuals, dissidents, and
other groups by the Schutzstaffel (SS) had been circulated among all
the Allied leaders. Very few of the Allied commanders, however, had an
accurate conception of what is now known to the world as the Holocaust
until their troops began to encounter the death camps as they marched
into Western Germany.
Ike visits the concentration camp at Ohrdruf with Generals Bradley and
Patton
On April 4, 1945, elements of the United States Army’s 89th Infantry
Division and the 4th Armored Division captured the Ohrdruf
concentration camp outside the town of Gotha in south central Germany.
Although the Americans didn’t know it at the time, Ohrdruf was one of
several sub-camps serving the Buchenwald extermination camp, which was
close to the city of Weimar several miles north of Gotha. Ohrdruf was
a holding facility for over 11,000 prisoners on their way to the gas
chambers and crematoria at Buchenwald. A few days before the Americans
arrived to liberate Ohrdruf, the SS guards had assembled all of the
inmates who could walk and marched them off to Buchenwald. They left
in the sub-camp more than a thousand bodies of prisoners who had died
of bullet wounds, starvation, abuse, and disease. The scene was an
indescribable horror even to the combat-hardened troops who captured
the camp. Bodies were piled throughout the camp. There was evidence
everywhere of systematic butchery. Many of the mounds of dead bodies
were still smoldering from failed attempts by the departing SS guards
to burn them. The stench was horrible.
When General Eisenhower learned about the camp, he immediately
arranged to meet Generals Bradley and Patton at Ohrdruf on the morning
of April 12th. By that time, Buchenwald itself had been captured.
Consequently, Ike decided to extend the group’s visit to include a
tour of the Buchenwald extermination camp the next day. Eisenhower
also ordered every American soldier in the area who was not on the
front lines to visit Ohrdruf and Buchenwald. He wanted them to see for
themselves what they were fighting against.
During the camp inspections with his top commanders Eisenhower said
that the atrocities were “beyond the American mind to comprehend.” He
ordered that every citizen of the town of Gotha personally tour the
camp and, after having done so, the mayor and his wife went home and
hanged themselves. Later on Ike wrote to Mamie, “I never dreamed that
such cruelty, bestiality, and savagery could really exist in this
world.” He cabled General Marshall to suggest that he come to Germany
and see these camps for himself. He encouraged Marshall to bring
Congressmen and journalists with him. It would be many months before
the world would know the full scope of the Holocaust — many months
before they knew that the Nazi murder apparatus that was being
discovered at Buchenwald and dozens of other death camps had
slaughtered millions of innocent people.
General Eisenhower understood that many people would be unable to
comprehend the full scope of this horror. He also understood that any
human deeds that were so utterly evil might eventually be challenged
or even denied as being literally unbelievable. For these reasons he
ordered that all the civilian news media and military combat camera
units be required to visit the camps and record their observations in
print, pictures and film. As he explained to General Marshall, “I made
the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-
hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a
tendency to charge these allegations merely to ‘propaganda.’”
His prediction proved correct. When some groups, even today, attempt
to deny that the Holocaust ever happened they are must confront the
massive official record, including both written evidence and thousands
of pictures, that Eisenhower ordered to be assembled when he saw what
the Nazis had done.
© Dwight D. Eisenhower Memorial Commission, Washington, DC, 2004
B.H. Cramer
<mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote in message
news:e51cb852-b45b-412c...@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Jew lies and b'ullshit snipped.
yp
<webbfam...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
> "yp" <y...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:21e127d7-c3fd-4e2b...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 15, 11:05 am, johannes <j...@sizef4647478785itter.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Peter Webb wrote:
>
> > > "johannes" <j...@sizef33636365itter.com> wrote in message
> > >news:49BCE7C2...@sizef33636365itter.com...
>
> > > > yp wrote:
>
> > > >> Iran's PresidentAhmadinejadmakes excellent points aboutHolocaust.
> > > >> This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
> > > >> can't people study theHolocaustindependently of Jewish claims,
> > > >> using
> > > >> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
> > > >> world had more such leaders.
>
> > > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY&feature=related
>
> > > > Not just Jewish claims, but numbers neatly recorded by the Nazis. Full
> > > > facts
> > > > were available over 60 years ago, so why suddenly change history?
> > > > Modern
> > > > technologies are more likely to obfuscate. Old
> > > > documents/pictures/films
> > > > are
> > > > the
> > > > truth"? You weren't there. It doesn't matter what he says; nobody can
> > > > change
> > > > history. People can believe in a flat Earth if they want, I don't
> > > > care.
>
> > > And there are still tens of thousands of eye witnesses left alive.
>
Come on. Anyone who starts researching the Holocaust, other than Jews,
is immediately branded an anti-Semite and condemned by the Jewish
lobby and the politicians who are scared of it. An example of this is
the Institute of Historical Review where there are many renowned
historians and well educated people questioning the truthfulness of
Holocaust allegations.
There are a number of other individual historians, writers and so on
who have questioned the Holocaust and were immediately demonised by
the Jewish lobby.
I have shown to you from personal knowledge (through my father) that
Jews were not treated differently from other inmates in German
concentration camps, and the only thing you have to say it has all
been "well researched and well understood part of modern history".
Bullshit.
HD
There are also many renowned Scientists who believe that the wold is only a
few thousand years old.
Facts don't matter to someone who has a fanatical desire to believe
something else.
Relevant.Search.Result
> "Kenneth McVay OBC" <kmc...@shell.vex.net> wrote in messagenews:4audnWIt5MY9ZCDU...@vex.net...
>
>
>
> > <7fb753c2-82ea-4201-9070-24337ef5a...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
> > Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> >>That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
> >>witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
> >>camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
>
> > Please document your claim that the witnesses who describe mass murder at
> > the German-run concentration camps were "virtually" all Jews.
>
> > Explain how you determined that the perpetrators who agreed with the
> > survivors (Jewish and Gentile) were German national Gentiles.
>
> > I'll wait.
>
> You ask the most ridiculous questions, mcFey. Questions based on semantics.
>
> Here's a couple for you:
>
> Name all those jews allegedly murdered by the Nazis
> Provide their date of birth
> Provide their blood type
> Provide their underwear size
>
> I'll wait.
ha ha ha, thumbs up for that one! :-)
Lou Ravi
But surely this is the problem raised. Why should people be disallowed
from contesting the Holocaust? As far as I'm concerned the evidence is
clearly there, one could quibble about this or that point but there is
no doubt in my mind that the Nazis undertook a deliberate mass
extermination of those they considered 'untermensch', the majority
Jewish.
I think it would be far more healthy for all if the 'holocaust deniers'
were allowe to speak freely bring their evidence if they have any and
have an open debate rather than letting them play the card of a
'worldwide Jewish conspiracy' stopping them doing so. That way they can
be shut up once and for all.
Morbid Fungus
> In article <7fb753c2-82ea-4201-9070-24337ef5a...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
> >witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
> >camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
>
> Please document your claim that the witnesses who describe mass murder at
> the German-run concentration camps were "virtually" all Jews.
>
> Explain how you determined that the perpetrators who agreed with the
> survivors (Jewish and Gentile) were German national Gentiles.
>
> I'll wait.
>
to "perpetrators who agreed with the survivors." Why perpetrators?
Why not non-Jewish survivors? If you would like to refute my point
that all the people claiming a Holocaust were Jews, why not point to
non-Jewish survivors who support the all-Jewish concoction of a
Holocaust?
Were there no non-Jewish survivors? What happened to those hundreds
of thousands of Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians, Gypsies, Catholics,
Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses? What about the Catholic priests
sent to the camps? Didn't any survive? Didn't even one of them see
the same Holocaust that all the Jewish survivors saw?
Jews were a minority in all the camps where they were housed. Many
camps had no Jews at all. If there were almost 4 million surviving
Jews, there must have been many more millions of non-Jews who
survived. And they must all have tattoos on their forearms---just
like those Jewish survivors who show off their terrible tattoos at
lectures all over the world.
But there aren't any. No non-Jewish inmate at any of the camps saw a
Holocaust. Just Jews. No non-Jewish survivors appeared as witnesses
at any of those post-war hanging courts.to testify to gas chambers and
mass killings Just Jews. No non-Jew survivor bears a tattoo on his or
her arm. Just Jews. The story goes that the Germans worked hard to
kill all the Jews in a Holocaust, but all the survivors who saw a
Holocaust are Jews.
RJ11
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> But there aren't any. No non-Jewish inmate at any of the camps saw a
> Holocaust.
Why do you have to post such idiotic lies?
That's all you people have left, huh?
Ever hear of Zenon Rozanski, for example?
RJ.
john...@gmail.com
The story goes that the Germans worked hard to
> kill all the Jews in a Holocaust, but all the survivors who saw a
> Holocaust are Jews.
This one was not:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Way_for_the_Gas,_Ladies_and_Gentlemen
Morbid Fungus
>
> Ike and the Death Camps
>
> As Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces in World War
>
> Division and the 4th Armored Division captured the Ohrdruf
> concentration camp outside the town of Gotha in south central Germany.
> Although the Americans didn’t know it at the time, Ohrdruf was one of
> several sub-camps serving the Buchenwald extermination camp, which was
> close to the city of Weimar several miles north of Gotha. Ohrdruf was
> a holding facility for over 11,000 prisoners on their way to the gas
> chambers and crematoria at Buchenwald. A few days before the Americans
> arrived to liberate Ohrdruf, the SS guards had assembled all of the
> inmates who could walk and marched them off to Buchenwald.
Except for the fact that Army units took over the camp, every fact
stated in this post about Ohrdruf is a lie----and they are old lies;
told before the true facts finally came out and the Holocaust crowd
finally admitted that no camp located in Germany proper maintained gas
chambers; Buchenwald was not a death camp.
Ohrdruf was a camp designated for convicted felons. If any Jews were
housed at Ohrdruf, it was because they were felons convicted before
German courts. While it may have been under the same administration
as Buchenwald, it was not considered a subcamp where inmates would
alternate working shifts.
Buchenwald was not an "extermination camp." Even the most avid
Holocaust huckster today concedes that there were no homicidal gas
chambers at Buchenwald and no one, Jews or otherwise, was killed by
gassing at Buchenwald. No one from Ohrdruf was marched from Ohrdruf
to be gassed at Buchenwald. It's all an old and thoroughly exposed
lie.
But anyone who follows the Holocaust propaganda program should not be
surprised that such old and debunked lies are being used again. The
technique of the Holocaust barkers is to retell the same lies over and
over. The theory seems to be that since most people have never heard
all the tales, repeating the same lies just might go over with some
misinformed dupe.
RJ11
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
(snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
Deal with the facts, please.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
Mass graves found at Nazi camp
Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
death camp in north-eastern Poland.
The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation
in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
</quote>
RJ.
_ G O D _
news:gpmdv5$21l$1...@pcls6.std.com...
> In article <7261f3c6-9c53-46ee...@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
>> But there aren't any. No non-Jewish inmate
>> at any of the camps saw a Holocaust.
>
> Why do you have to post such idiotic lies?
Can't you see that the COck-sucking retards are trolling
for twisted COck-sucking deniers, who'd agree on that?
There are people who insist that there's no antagonism
between different sectarian denominations is going on,
or ever existed in the past, in order to deny an ongoing
genocide of disadvantaged individuals in labor camps,
where slave labor of defenceless people being brutally
exploited for capitalization by twisted employees of the
incarceration industry with complete and utter impunity, -
in violation of the Human Rights and in perpetuation of
slavery and genocide by gulag economy and its totally
corrupt and criminal judicial system....
--
_____________________________________________________
I intend to last long enough to put out of business all COck-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--
_ G O D _
news:50f3b285-da24-41bc...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Apparently, Jews are the only group that's strong enough to
be able to survive and to tell the world about COck-sucking
Catholics bullying the "infidels" to submission in their quest
of capitalization from slavery and genocide of incarceration
industry, and in the ongoing perpetuation of gulag economy....
Morbid Fungus
> In article <7261f3c6-9c53-46ee-bb52-1285fc858...@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> > But there aren't any. No non-Jewish inmate at any of the camps saw a
> > Holocaust.
>
> Why do you have to post such idiotic lies?
>
> That's all you people have left, huh?
>
> Ever hear of Zenon Rozanski, for example?
>
> RJ.
Yeah, Rozanski was a Polish fiction writer who included horror tales
of gas chambers in his stories. Some "witness."
RJ11
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
> On Mar 16, 2:48 pm, RJ11 <r...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> But there aren't any. No non-Jewish inmate at any of the camps saw a
>>> Holocaust.
>> Why do you have to post such idiotic lies?
>>
>> That's all you people have left, huh?
>>
>> Ever hear of Zenon Rozanski, for example?
> Yeah, Rozanski was a Polish fiction writer who included horror tales
> of gas chambers in his stories.
Two of the Birkenau crematoriums:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema3.shtml
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema4.shtml
A document which mentions a 'gassing cellar' in an Auschwitz-Birkenau
crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Vergasungkeller.shtml
A document requesting cyanide gas detectors for an Auschwitz-Birkenau crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Gas-Detector.shtml
Cremation furnaces:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnaces.shtml
A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas chambers:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
RJ.
Dr. Burnham
Jews converted to lampshades?
Jews converted to soap?
The Boys from Brazil?
All good legends!
> I'll wait!
> JS- Hide quoted text -
Greg Carr
>yp wrote:
>> Iran's President Ahmadinejad makes excellent points about Holocaust.
He has also claimed their are no homosexuals in Iran but the CBC was
able to document them on the streets of Iran.
>> This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
>> should Palestinians pay for the Holocaust if indeed it happened? Why
>> can't people study the Holocaust independently of Jewish claims, using
>> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
>> world had more such leaders.> He is a dictator who is fearful of democracy. The world neeeds less such leaders.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY&feature=related
>
>He makes some interesting points!
>
>The main point in this interview is: Why are the Palestinians persecuted
>for the Holocaust? Why should they be displaced and lose their land?
>
>Those questions will never be answered.
----------------------------------------------------------
The following is my sig file updated as of 14th of Kislev, 5769:
We are awaiting the return of our JHVH in the flesh or his Son. His Son Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, was resurrected and walked the earth for awhile then ascended unto Heaven. We await the Third Coming not the Second.
Scottish Quaker Robert Barclay-"The weighty Truths of God were neglected, and, as it were, went into Desuetude. ...
Who will be the last Coalition soldier to be maimed in Iraq?
Canadian troops out of Afghanistan and into Darfur.http://www.amnesty.ca/instantkarma/petition.php
Good luck to anyone trying to learn Hebrew. I am looking for a Hebrew-Gregorian calendar in both Hebrew and English lettering.
I am looking for my missing automobile. Left in the care of Low's Tire (Firestone) on King George Hwy which has since gone out of business. A man who claimed to be a tow truck driver named Jerry (sounded Black) called me and said he had it
but when I called him back he denied it. JVD-298 "89 Plymouth Reliant white with red interior. Devellis in lettering on the rear trunk. Contact me by email or the GRC if you are one of those ppl. Am looking for the address of Dave Reynolds and any info about him. He used to run Low's Tires and since he refuses to answer his email lows...@telus.net I can only assume he is the person who stole my vehicle and the contents in it. I have talked to the new owners and they claim to know nothing.
3P3BK41D9KT921716 is the vin number. Dave Reynolds still has a valid email lows...@telus.net but refuses to return my inquiries.Any info about this thief is appreciated.
I am also looking for various books and CD's that I have discovered missing. All are marked Greg Carr on the inside cover or somewhere in the CD booklet. $5 reward for each CD and for each book. Will pay $200 for info regarding how they disappeared because I honestly don't know.
u8m854p98su072q3l8chiss3t0lcr05f...@4ax.com is a post of mine about the liar and police agent Gordon Sauck. It has been censored by Google Groups.
Jonathon Gregory and Craig Wong are thieves and liars and smokers.They live at 344 E.Hastings St. They call and lie to Vancouver Police and the Landlord-Tenancy Branch.
Mike Poirier is HA and works at DPS at 817 Denman St. This company is such a bunch of liars that besides stealing from ppl they claim to be 100% Cdn owned on their signs when in fact they are owned by a rich man in Seattle. You anti-semitic types might like to know the man is a Jew. Poirier is a liar and perjurer and he attacks ppl for no reason and then calls Vancouver Police if he loses.
DPS 817 Denman St
V6G 2L7 Canada
(604) 681-8797
(604) 684-0329 Fax
va...@diamondparking.com
Mailing Address
P.O. Box 3055
Vancouver, BC V6B 3X5 Canada
Canada
Mike Poirier – Regional Vice President of Operations
mike.p...@diamondparking.com
He lives in Burnaby. Caucasian 5"8 in platform shoes.
<a href="http://www.free-iqtest.net" title="Free IQ Test"><img src="http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l122.gif" width="200" height="100" alt="Free IQ Test" border="0"></a><br>Free-IQTest.net - <a title="Free IQ Test" href="http://www.free-iqtest.net">Free IQ Test</a><img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyMjkwNDgxODE1MDAmcHQ9MTIyOTA*ODIxOTA5MyZwPTEwOTE5MSZkPUZJUSZnPTEmdD*mbz1kNjk3NzIxYzk4MTU*ZWVlOWFlZmNjMzFjMzIwZTM2Mg==.gif" />
This is just a line I typed to see if you would read it :-)
Greg Carr
Way to go Ike!!
yp
>
> - Show quoted text -
You have a very good point. My father who was from one of the
nationalities that you mentioned above was an inmate in a German
concentration camp. He was released right at the end of the war when
most if not all of the inmates were released and the camps were
closed. The Germans exploited the prisoners very badly by hard work
and insufficient food rations, however, no one was "exterminated"
because of his nationality. He saw no Holocaust. When my father was
finally released, he came back a man with a broken health and he died
at age 61 without ever recovering his health. I am, therefore, very
surprised to see all these Jewish Holocaust survivors living past 90
in good health, after according to their stories being incarcerated in
those horrible German camps. It's really beyond comprehension.
Greg Carr
B.H.Cramer is a ZHID and a YID.
Greg Carr
>Peter Webb wrote:
>>
>> "johannes" <jo...@sizef33636365itter.com> wrote in message
>> news:49BCE7C2...@sizef33636365itter.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> yp wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Iran's President Ahmadinejad makes excellent points about Holocaust.
>>>> This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
>>>> should Palestinians pay for the Holocaust if indeed it happened? Why
>>>> can't people study the Holocaust independently of Jewish claims, using
>>>> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
>>>> world had more such leaders.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY&feature=related
>>>
>>> Not just Jewish claims, but numbers neatly recorded by the Nazis. Full
>>> facts
>>> were available over 60 years ago, so why suddenly change history? Modern
>>> technologies are more likely to obfuscate. Old
>>> documents/pictures/films are
>>> more difficult to forge. Why are you so sure that Ahmadinejad "tells the
>>> truth"? You weren't there. It doesn't matter what he says; nobody can
>>> change
>>> history. People can believe in a flat Earth if they want, I don't care.
>>
>> And there are still tens of thousands of eye witnesses left alive.
>>
>> That's the strange thing about Holocaust deniers. If they want, they can
>> ask people who were actually there; thousands of them if they want. Are
>> they claiming they are all liars, as are the many more people who have
>> told their story but died since WW2 ?
>>
>> Its as plausible as claiming that a nuclear bomb wasn't dropped on
>> Hiroshima in WW2. They have about the same number of eye-witnesses, the
>> same level of physical evidence, the same level of documentary evidence
>> (if you include the Manhattan project as well), and you can still talk
>> to about the same number of people who actually saw it happen.
>>
>> Yet nobody denies that an atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima - cranks
>> are so unimaginative.
>>
>
>You are straying from statements made in the interview. Ahmadinejad asks
>the question: What did the Palestinians do to the Jews? Why are they
>being punished for the Holocaust?
>
>The Palestinian people have received the wrath of Israel for the last 60
>years. Why?
>
>That is the point of this post. If you can't answer the question,
>deflect or ignore the question. That will be answer enough.
What did the Palestinians do to incur the wrath of Kuwait?
Truthseeker
population. As an old saying goes the victor is writing the history. Will
there ever be a time when others are allowed to compare both sides. Why is
it the Germans and Japanese are not allowed to write what war crimes the
allies did commit why is there a massive cover up just to make the looser
look bad.. Eisenhower definitely gave his forced the order not to feed the
German prisoners. And the German farmers from the nearby village around the
camp where not allowed to bring food the prisoners. Lying the way you do is
not making anything better it only create suspicions.
Kurt Knoll.
"Greg Carr" <greg...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:arrtr41djjt22ilgo...@4ax.com...
>>the world would know the full scope of the Holocaust - many months
> Mike Poirier - Regional Vice President of Operations
Kenneth McVay OBC
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>On Mar 16, 1:02 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article <7fb753c2-82ea-4201-9070-24337ef5a...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,Morbid
>Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
>> >witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
>> >camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
>>
>> Please document your claim that the witnesses who describe mass murder at
>> the German-run concentration camps were "virtually" all Jews.
>>
>> Explain how you determined that the perpetrators who agreed with the
>> survivors (Jewish and Gentile) were German national Gentiles.
>>
>> I'll wait.
>>
>That's strange . . . I said the survivors were all Jews and you point
>to "perpetrators who agreed with the survivors." Why perpetrators?
>Why not non-Jewish survivors? If you would like to refute my point
>that all the people claiming a Holocaust were Jews, why not point to
>non-Jewish survivors who support the all-Jewish concoction of a
>Holocaust?
I have met a good many Gentile survivors. That I mention perpetrators
simply indicates that they are the most direct route to proving that you
lied.
--
"Pissing in the swimming pool when you are in the water will get you
nowhere. Do it from from a 10 meter springboard and everybody will
notice you!" (Werner Knoll, Surrey's Leading Revisionist Scholar)
Kenneth McVay OBC
Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>On Mar 16, 5:07 am, mir...@actcom.co.il wrote:
>>
>> Ike and the Death Camps
>>
>> As Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces in World War
>>
>> On April 4, 1945, elements of the United States Army’s 89th Infantry
>> Division and the 4th Armored Division captured the Ohrdruf
>> concentration camp outside the town of Gotha in south central Germany.
>> Although the Americans didn’t know it at the time, Ohrdruf was one of
>> several sub-camps serving the Buchenwald extermination camp, which was
>> close to the city of Weimar several miles north of Gotha. Ohrdruf was
>> a holding facility for over 11,000 prisoners on their way to the gas
>> chambers and crematoria at Buchenwald. A few days before the Americans
>> arrived to liberate Ohrdruf, the SS guards had assembled all of the
>> inmates who could walk and marched them off to Buchenwald.
>
>Except for the fact that Army units took over the camp, every fact
>stated in this post about Ohrdruf is a lie----and they are old lies;
>told before the true facts finally came out and the Holocaust crowd
>finally admitted that no camp located in Germany proper maintained gas
>chambers; Buchenwald was not a death camp.
Dachau had a gas chamber.
Hademar had a gas chamber.
AUSCHWITZ, which was part of Germany at the time, contained a death camp
and had gas chambers.
Live with it.
--
"Pissing in the swimming pool when you are in the water will get you
nowhere. Do it from from a 10 meter springboard and everybody will
notice you!" (Werner Knoll, Surrey's Leading Revisionist Scholar)
Kenneth McVay OBC
Truthseeker <kur...@citywest.ca> wrote:
>Interesting has Eisenhower seen what he has done to the German civilian
>population.
What Ike did was see to it that assholes like you and your sewer trash
family received 1200 calories each per day, just like everyone else in
Germany, including DPs and German POWs in American hands.
General Eisenhower kept you alive, you sorry, ungrateful son of a bitch.
Tom P
> On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:37:50 -0500, Tom P <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> yp wrote:
>>> Iran's President Ahmadinejad makes excellent points about Holocaust.
>
> He has also claimed their are no homosexuals in Iran but the CBC was
> able to document them on the streets of Iran.
>>> This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
>>> should Palestinians pay for the Holocaust if indeed it happened? Why
>>> can't people study the Holocaust independently of Jewish claims, using
>>> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
>>> world had more such leaders.> He is a dictator who is fearful of democracy. The world neeeds less such leaders.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY&feature=related
>> He makes some interesting points!
>>
>> The main point in this interview is: Why are the Palestinians persecuted
>> for the Holocaust? Why should they be displaced and lose their land?
>>
>> Those questions will never be answered.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
You're deflecting the question. Why are the Palestinians persecuted for
the Holocaust? Why should they be displaced and lose their land?
The obvious answer which no one wants to admit, is that the Palestinians
have done nothing to the Jews. They were not involved in the Holocaust.
The Holocaust is being used as an excuse to take away the land from the
Palestinians. That is the point Ahmadinejad was trying to make in this
interview.
Is there any other explanation for the persecution of the Palestinian
people?
a-little-sanity
yp <yp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You have a very good point. My father who was from one of the
> nationalities that you mentioned above was an inmate in a German
> concentration camp.
Prove it. What camp?
> He was released right at the end of the war when
> most if not all of the inmates were released and the camps were
> closed. The Germans exploited the prisoners very badly by hard work
> and insufficient food rations, however, no one was "exterminated"
> because of his nationality. He saw no Holocaust.
Really?
_ G O D _
news:f7d4f2e6-0f7f-4ebb...@w35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> mir...@actcom.co.il wrote:
>>
....<snip>....redundant crap has been carefully removed.........
>> ....Ohrdruf was one of several sub-camps serving the
>> Buchenwald extermination camp, which was close to
>> the city of Weimar several miles north of Gotha. Ohrdruf
>> was a holding facility for over 11,000 prisoners on their
>> way to the gas chambers and crematoria at Buchenwald.
>
>....Ohrdruf is a lie----and they are old lies; told before...
> ... no camp located in Germany maintained gas
> chambers; Buchenwald was not a death camp.
>
> Ohrdruf was a camp designated for convicted
> felons. If any Jews were housed at Ohrdruf, it
>was because they were felons.....
>....as Buchenwald, it was not considered a subcamp
> where inmates would alternate working shifts.
>
>Buchenwald was not an "extermination camp."
> ....there were no homicidal gas chambers at
> Buchenwald and no one, Jews or otherwise,
> was killed by gassing at Buchenwald. No one
> from Ohrdruf was marched from Ohrdruf to be
> gassed at Buchenwald. It's all an old and thoroughly
> exposed lie.
>
>.... such old and debunked lies are being used again.
>.... the same lies over and over.
So, you don't wish to believe the barbarities committed in
the name of the "racial purification" by official policies of
Hitler's era. That's quite natural and explainable attitude,
which does not carry any malice against individuals who
may have irreversibly suffered from the barbarities.
However, your deliberate justification of barbarities and
the mistreatment "designated against convicted felons,"
rather than "on the basis of conflicting sectarian beliefs,"
is exposing your dark side as an advocate for the prison
system, designed to separate its victims from their loved
ones, - from their protectors, family and friends. - People,
who may have been taken care of by them, or vice-versa.
Including those who would have prevented the barbarity
inflicted against them "in the name of law and order," as
you have implied....
Your outright dismissal of all of the presented facts that
together with the "convicted felons," there were people,
who did not have an impartial court hearing of 12 jurors,
who decided to commit their peers to life of slave labor,
suggests that you either able to provide the documents
to prove your claim, or you are a blind apologist of such
infliction of the miseries, hardship, and probably -death.
B.H. Cramer
"Morbid Fungus" <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:7261f3c6-9c53-46ee...@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 16, 1:02 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
> In article
> <7fb753c2-82ea-4201-9070-24337ef5a...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,Morbid
> Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
> >witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
> >camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
>
> Please document your claim that the witnesses who describe mass murder at
> the German-run concentration camps were "virtually" all Jews.
>
> Explain how you determined that the perpetrators who agreed with the
> survivors (Jewish and Gentile) were German national Gentiles.
>
>> I'll wait.
>>
>That's strange . . . I said the survivors were all Jews and you point
>to "perpetrators who agreed with the survivors." Why perpetrators?
>Why not non-Jewish survivors? If you would like to refute my point
>that all the people claiming a Holocaust were Jews, why not point to
>non-Jewish survivors who support the all-Jewish concoction of a
>Holocaust?
Good point. One which I'm sure mcFey will either skip around or ignore
completely.
Peter Webb
"HD" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:jptvl.28988$cu.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "yp" <yp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4c39ec24-a100-4fd2...@d19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 15, 6:56 pm, "Peter Webb"
> <webbfam...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> "yp" <y...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:21e127d7-c3fd-4e2b...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 15, 11:05 am, johannes <j...@sizef4647478785itter.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Peter Webb wrote:
>>
>> > >news:49BCE7C2...@sizef33636365itter.com...
>>
>> > > > yp wrote:
>>
>> > > >> Iran's PresidentAhmadinejadmakes excellent points aboutHolocaust.
>> > > >> can't people study theHolocaustindependently of Jewish claims,
>> > > >> using
>> > > >> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
>> > > >> world had more such leaders.
>>
>>
>> > > > Not just Jewish claims, but numbers neatly recorded by the Nazis.
>> > > > Full
>> > > > facts
>> > > > were available over 60 years ago, so why suddenly change history?
>> > > > Modern
>> > > > technologies are more likely to obfuscate. Old
>> > > > documents/pictures/films
>> > > > are
>> > > > the
>> > > > truth"? You weren't there. It doesn't matter what he says; nobody
>> > > > can
>> > > > change
>> > > > history. People can believe in a flat Earth if they want, I don't
>> > > > care.
>>
>>
>> > > That's the strange thing aboutHolocaustdeniers. If they want, they
>> > > ask
>> > > people who were actually there; thousands of them if they want. Are
>> > > they
>> > > claiming they are all liars, as are the many more people who have
>> > > told
>> > > their
>> > > story but died since WW2 ?
>>
>> > > Its as plausible as claiming that a nuclear bomb wasn't dropped on
>> > > Hiroshima
>> > > in WW2. They have about the same number of eye-witnesses, the same
>> > > level
>> > > of
>> > > physical evidence, the same level of documentary evidence (if you
>> > > include
>> > > the Manhattan project as well), and you can still talk to about the
>> > > same
>> > > number of people who actually saw it happen.
>>
>> > > Yet nobody denies that an atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima -
>> > > cranks
>> > > are
>> > > so unimaginative.
>>
>> > might
>> > even
>> > know the facts. It's more like a game in the kindergarten; one child
>> > gets
>> > more
>> > attention, the other child will say that she's fat or ugly.- Hide
>> > text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> were there. My own father was in a German concentration camp and he
>> was released only just days before the war ended. To prove it I attach
>> his release document from which I removed the family name for obvious
>> reasons. Well, I did ask my father about his long stay in that
>> concentration camp, and I did receive plenty of answers. But the main
>> point is that there were various nationalities in that camp, including
>> Jews, and my father told me that although the conditions were horrible
>> for all, Jews were not treated differently from other inmates and
>> certainly were not exterminated because of their nationality. And many
>> other non-Jewish prisoners of such camps have said the same thing.
>> That is why a more thorough study of the camps is justified.
>>
>> http://www.yp.zoomshare.com/
>>
>> *****************
>> I don't think that anybody has denied that other people were also
>> systematically murdered by the Germans. This is also a well researched
>> and
>> well understood part of modern history, even if it is news to you.
>>
>
> Come on. Anyone who starts researching the Holocaust, other than Jews,
> is immediately branded an anti-Semite and condemned by the Jewish
> lobby and the politicians who are scared of it.
That is simply not true. Many Historians have studied the Holocaust over the
years, and have not been branded anti-Semites - Churchill is an excellent
example.
> An example of this is
> the Institute of Historical Review where there are many renowned
> historians and well educated people questioning the truthfulness of
> Holocaust allegations.
>
No, this is not what you claimed. You said "Historians researching the
Holocaust" were always labelled anti-semites. Now you state that *some*
people "questioning the *truthfullness* of Holocaust allegations" are
labelled anti-semites; this because they generally are.
Studying the Holocaust is a completely legitimate historical exercise.
Denying it happened is not. They are different.
>
> There are also many renowned Scientists who believe that the wold is only
> a few thousand years old.
No.
> Facts don't matter to someone who has a fanatical desire to believe
> something else.
Like Holocaust deniers, and those people who deny that an atomic bomb was
ever dropped on Hiroshima.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.ihr.org/
>
> There are a number of other individual historians, writers and so on
> who have questioned the Holocaust and were immediately demonised by
> the Jewish lobby.
>
And many others aren't. The ones who are demonised are those who use
Holocaust denial as a means of advancing an anti-semtic agenda.
> I have shown to you from personal knowledge (through my father) that
> Jews were not treated differently from other inmates in German
> concentration camps, and the only thing you have to say it has all
> been "well researched and well understood part of modern history".
> Bullshit.
No, your father says he knew some Jewish people who weren't killed and who
weren't treated differently. That is not evidence the Holocaust didn't
occur; its just evidence your father wasn't involved.
Where was he exactly? Bergen Belsen, Auschwitz, Treblinka, Birkenau ..? What
part of the generally accepted history of the Holocaust does he dispute on
the basis of his eye-witness experience?
B.H. Cramer
<john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:50f3b285-da24-41bc...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Way_for_the_Gas,_Ladies_and_Gentlemen
Hahahahahahahaha. They are novellas, silly man.
I believe you're incorrect when you claim Borowski is not a jew.
B.H. Cramer
You put it very mildly.
I find it also beyond comprehension that there are MORE "survivors" alive in
the world today than there were in 1945.
Natural atrition doesn't seem to apply to yids.
Peter Webb
"Tom P" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%1Fvl.61843$Tp5....@newsfe13.iad...
> Greg Carr wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:37:50 -0500, Tom P <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> yp wrote:
>>>> Iran's President Ahmadinejad makes excellent points about Holocaust.
>>
>> He has also claimed their are no homosexuals in Iran but the CBC was
>> able to document them on the streets of Iran.
>>>> This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
>>>> should Palestinians pay for the Holocaust if indeed it happened? Why
>>>> can't people study the Holocaust independently of Jewish claims, using
>>>> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
>>>> world had more such leaders.> He is a dictator who is fearful of
>>>> democracy. The world neeeds less such leaders.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY&feature=related
>>> He makes some interesting points!
>>>
>>> The main point in this interview is: Why are the Palestinians persecuted
>>> for the Holocaust? Why should they be displaced and lose their land?
>>>
>>> Those questions will never be answered.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> You're deflecting the question. Why are the Palestinians persecuted for
> the Holocaust? Why should they be displaced and lose their land?
>
They aren't being persecuted for the Holocaust.
> The obvious answer which no one wants to admit, is that the Palestinians
> have done nothing to the Jews. They were not involved in the Holocaust.
> The Holocaust is being used as an excuse to take away the land from the
> Palestinians. That is the point Ahmadinejad was trying to make in this
> interview.
>
The Holocaust is "not being used as an excuse to take land away from the
Palestinians". Unless you can find a reference.
> Is there any other explanation for the persecution of the Palestinian
> people?
The Palestinian people are not being persecuted. The majority of them live
peacefully in their homeland, Jordan.
Some, in Gaza, are in a fair amount of shit, basically because they keep
trying to attack Israel.
HTH
john...@gmail.com
> <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
novellas alleged to be based on truth. He is described as non Jewish,
but I suppose we can''t be sure.
What about Oskar Groning, how do you think he came to lie? Do you
think he is a publicity seeker or is he bribed by the Israelis?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,355188,00.html
He unbuttons and rolls up his left sleeve. "Here," he says, "look at
this."
There is a tiny blue dot above his elbows, the remainder of a tattoo.
"It was poorly executed," he says. It was supposed to be a zero,
representing blood type O. Everyone in Auschwitz was tattooed,
prisoners and guards alike. Jews were tattooed with their inmate
number and SS guards with their blood type. Oskar Gröning was a member
of the SS in Auschwitz for two years.
john...@gmail.com
> On 17 Mar, 07:33, "B.H. Cramer" <ben_alw...@beltingyids.com> wrote:
>
> > <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:50f3b285-da24-41bc...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> > On 16 Mar, 20:33, Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> > The story goes that the Germans worked hard to
>
> > >> kill all the Jews in a Holocaust, but all the survivors who saw a
> > >> Holocaust are Jews.
> > >This one was not:-
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Way_for_the_Gas,_Ladies_and_Gentlemen
>
> > Hahahahahahahaha. They are novellas, silly man.
>
> > I believe you're incorrect when you claim Borowski is not a jew.
>
> novellas alleged to be based on truth. He is described as non Jewish,
> but I suppose we can''t be sure.
>
john...@gmail.com
I recommend the book. He does not sound like a Jew.
As has been stated, Borowski was not a Jew and this was reflected in
his writings. The Holocaust is often thought of from the Anne Frank
type of perspective, in that the Jews were victims, but have a certain
dignity and courage connected with them and the events they endured.
For instance, the soft focus moment of Meryl Streep having to make an
impossible decision in the film version of Sophie's Choice, that tugs
on the emotional heartstrings. In sharp contrast with this, Borowski
does away with any ideas even approaching nobility, portraying as
bleak a picture of humanity as it would seem possible to paint. In his
stories, everyone is debased, whether they be Nazi or Jew, for within
the concentration camps the outside world modesty has been stripped
away leaving only a human nature that is completely corrupt. It is no
wonder that his writings have not enjoyed the same success as his
fellow Holocaust writers because in his stories, no-one is virtuous
and everyone has a degree of complicity, including himself, for his
own sense of guilt shows through.
B.H. Cramer
<john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:186d0a4f-6096-4b3a...@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On 17 Mar, 07:33, "B.H. Cramer" <ben_alw...@beltingyids.com> wrote:
> <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:50f3b285-da24-41bc...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On 16 Mar, 20:33, Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> The story goes that the Germans worked hard to
>
> >> kill all the Jews in a Holocaust, but all the survivors who saw a
> >> Holocaust are Jews.
> >This one was not:-
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Way_for_the_Gas,_Ladies_and_Gentlemen
>
> Hahahahahahahaha. They are novellas, silly man.
>
>> I believe you're incorrect when you claim Borowski is not a jew.
>novellas alleged to be based on truth. He is described as non Jewish,
>but I suppose we can''t be sure.
>What about Oskar Groning, how do you think he came to lie? Do you
>think he is a publicity seeker or is he bribed by the Israelis?
>http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,355188,00.html
This was brought to my attention some time ago. I think is more likely he is
a confused old man, probably enjoying the benefits of senile dementia, whom
a certain ethnic group has decided to use to capitalise on.
B.H. Cramer
<john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:77905c67-e6c7-4302...@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Thank you. This was in a time prior to my involvement in the forum. I found
it interesting.
>
B.H. Cramer
<john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8530a8f4-6730-4e0f...@w34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On 17 Mar, 08:59, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 17 Mar, 08:48, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > On 17 Mar, 07:33, "B.H. Cramer" <ben_alw...@beltingyids.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> > >news:50f3b285-da24-41bc...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> > > On 16 Mar, 20:33, Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > The story goes that the Germans worked hard to
>>
>> > > >> kill all the Jews in a Holocaust, but all the survivors who saw a
>> > > >> Holocaust are Jews.
>> > > >This one was not:-
>> > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Way_for_the_Gas,_Ladies_and_Gentlemen
>>
>> > > Hahahahahahahaha. They are novellas, silly man.
>>
>> > > I believe you're incorrect when you claim Borowski is not a jew.
>>
>> > novellas alleged to be based on truth. He is described as non Jewish,
>> > but I suppose we can''t be sure.
>>
>> Here is an old thread I started after I had just read his book:-
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/browse_thread/thread/d...
>
> I recommend the book. He does not sound like a Jew.
He may not be.
William Black
> What did the Palestinians do to incur the wrath of Kuwait?
The Palestinians employed as 'guest workers' in Kuwait sided with Iraq when
they invaded.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
ZuLu
> http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/stories/death-camps.htm
>
> Ike and the Death Camps
>
> As Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces in World War
> concentration camp system well before he led the invasion to liberate
> Western Europe (June, 1944). Reports on the massive genocide inflicted
> on Jews, Gypsies, political prisoners, homosexuals, dissidents, and
> other groups by the Schutzstaffel (SS) had been circulated among all
> the Allied leaders. Very few of the Allied commanders, however, had an
> accurate conception of what is now known to the world as the Holocaust
> until their troops began to encounter the death camps as they marched
> into Western Germany.
>
>
> Ike visits the concentration camp at Ohrdruf with Generals Bradley and
> Patton
> Division and the 4th Armored Division captured the Ohrdruf
> concentration camp outside the town of Gotha in south central Germany.
> several sub-camps serving the Buchenwald extermination camp,
Buchenwald was NOT A SO-CALLED EXTERMINATION CAMP. So here we have the beginning of
the hoax.
ANY CAMP liberated by US or British forces is qualified today of being "extermination
camp". With such qualification, it remains only nowadays those which were liberated
by the Red Army, guess why.
Propaganda by US infantrymen Dachau, Buchenwald, Dora, Mauthausen
by Theodore J. O'Keefe
Nothing has been more effective in establishing the authenticity of
the Holocaust story in the minds of Americans than the terrible scenes
US troops discovered when they entered German concentration camps at
the close of World War II.
At Dachau, Buchenwald, Dora, Mauthausen, and other work and detention
camps, horrified US infantrymen encountered heaps of dead and dying
inmates, emaciated and diseased. Survivors told them hair-raising
stories of torture and slaughter, and backed up their claims by
showing the GIs crematory ovens, alleged execution gas chambers,
supposed implements of torture, and even shrunken heads and
lampshades, gloves, and handbags purportedly made from skin flayed
from dead inmates.
US government authorities, mindful that many Americans who remembered
the atrocity stories fed them during World War I still doubted the
Allied propaganda directed against the Hitler regime, resolved to
"document" what the GIs had found in the camps. Prominent newsmen
and politicians were flown in to see the harrowing evidence, while
the US Army Signal Corps filmed and photographed the scenes for
posterity. Famous journalist Edward R. Murrow reported, in tones of
horror, but no longer of disbelief, what he had been told and shown,
and Dachau and Buchenwald were branded on the hearts and minds of the American
populace as names of infamy unmatched in the sad and bloody history
of this planet.
For Americans, what was "discovered" at the camps -- the dead and the
diseased, the terrible stories of the inmates, all the props of
torture and terror -- became the basis not simply of a transitory
propaganda campaign but of the conviction that, yes, it was true: the
Germans did exterminate six million Jews, most of them in lethal gas
chambers.
What the GIs found was used, by way of films that were mandatory
viewing for the vanquished populace of Germany, to "re-educate" the
German people by destroying their national pride and their will to a
united, independent national state, imposing in their place
overwhelming feelings of collective guilt and political impotence.
And when the testimony, and the verdict, of the Nuremberg Tribunal
incorporated most, if not all, of the horror stories Americans were
told about
Dachau, Buchenwald, and other places captured by the US Army, the
Holocaust could pass for one of the most documented, one of the most
authenticated, one of the most proven historical episodes in the
human record.
A Different Reality
But it is known today that, very soon after the liberation of the
camps, American authorities were aware that the real story of the
camps was quite different from the one in which they were coaching
military public information officers, government spokesmen,
politicians, journalists, and other mouthpieces.
When American and British forces overran western and central Germany
in the spring of 1945, they were followed by troops charged with
discovering and securing any evidence of German war crimes.
Among them was Dr. Charles Larson, one of America's leading forensic
pathologists, who was assigned to the US Army's Judge Advocate
General's Department. As part of a US War Crimes Investigation Team,
Dr. Larson performed autopsies at Dachau and some twenty other German
camps, examining on some days more than 100 corpses. After his grim
work at Dachau, he was
questioned for three days by US Army prosecutors.
Dr. Larson's findings? In an 1980 newspaper interview he said: "What
we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that
is a hoax." And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his
biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist
on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations,
confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."
Typhus, Not Poison Gas
If not by gassing, how did the unfortunate victims at Dachau,
Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen perish? Were they tortured to death or
deliberately starved? The answers to these questions are known as
well.
As Dr. Larson and other Allied medical men discovered, the chief
cause of death at Dachau, Belsen and the other camps was disease,
above all typhus, an old and terrible scourge of mankind that until
recently flourished in places where populations were crowded together
in circumstances where public health measures were unknown or had
broken down. Such was the case in the overcrowded internment camps in
Germany at war's end, where, despite such measures as systematic
delousing, quarantine of the sick and cremation of the dead, the
virtual
collapse of Germany's food, transport, and public health systems led
to catastrophe.
Perhaps the most authoritative statement of the facts as to typhus and
mortality in the camps has been made by Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D.,
Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the
Harvard University School of Public Health, who was with US forces in
Germany in 1945. Dr. Gordon reported in 1948 that "The outbreaks in
concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus
infection encountered in Germany." Dr. Gordon summarized the causes
for the outbreaks as follows:
Germany in the spring months of April and May [1945] was an
astounding sight, a mixture of humanity travelling this way and that,
homeless, often hungry and carrying typhus with them ...Germany was in
chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing
armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the
spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were
seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution was poor,
housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere
lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring
such as few countries and few times have experienced.
Dr. Gordon's findings are corroborated by Dr. Russell Barton, today a
psychiatrist of international repute, who entered Bergen-Belsen with
British forces as a young medical student in 1945. Barton, who
volunteered to care for the diseased survivors, testified under sworn
oath in a Toronto courtroom in 1985 that "Thousands of prisoners who
died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II
weren't deliberately starved to death but died from a rash of
diseases."
Dr. Barton further testified that on entering the camp he had credited
stories of deliberate starvation but decided such stories were untrue
after inspecting the well equipped kitchens and the meticulously
maintained ledgers, dating back to 1942, of food cooked and dispensed
each day.
Despite noisily publicized claims and widespread popular notions to
the contrary, no researcher has been able to document a German policy
of extermination through starvation in the German camps.
No 'Human Skin' Lampshades
What of the ghoulish stories of concentration camp inmates skinned for
their tattoos, flayed to make lampshades and handbags, or other
artifacts? What of the innumerable "torture racks," "meathooks,"
whipping posts, gallows, and other tools of torment and death that are
reported to have abounded at every German camp? These allegations, and
even more grotesque ones proffered by Soviet prosecutors, found their
way into the record at Nuremberg.
The lampshade and tattooed-skin charges were made against Ilse Koch,
dubbed by journalists the "Bitch of Buchenwald," who was reported to
have furnished her house with objects manufactured from the tanned
hides of luckless inmates.
But General Lucius Clay, military governor of the US zone of occupied
Germany, who reviewed her case in 1948, told his superiors in
Washington: "There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch]
selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skins
or that she possessed any articles made of human skin." In an
interview General Clay gave years later, he stated about the material
for the infamous lampshades: "Well, it turned out actually that it was
goat flesh. But
at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for
her to have gotten a fair trial." Ilse Koch hanged herself in a German
jail in 1967.
It would be tedious to itemize and refute the thousands of bizarre
claims as to Nazi atrocities. That there were instances of German
cruelty, however, is clear from the testimony of Dr. Konrad Morgen, a
legal investigator attached to the Reich Criminal Police, whose
statements on the witness stand at Nuremberg have never been
challenged by proponents of the Jewish Holocaust story. Dr. Morgen
informed the court that he had been given full authority by Heinrich
Himmler,
commander of Hitler's SS and the dread Gestapo, to enter any German
concentration camp and investigate instances of cruelty and corruption
on the part of camp personnel. As he explained in sworn testimony at
Nuremberg, Dr. Morgen investigated 800 such cases, resulting in more
than 200 convictions. Punishments included the death penalty for the
worst offenders, including Hermann Florstedt, commandant of Lublin
(Majdanek), and Karl Koch (Ilse's husband), commandant of Buchenwald.
While German camp commandants in certain cases did inflict physical
punishment, such acts had to be approved by authorities in Berlin, and
it was required that a camp physician first certify the good health of
the prisoner to be disciplined, and then be on hand at the actual
beating. After all, throughout most of the war the camps were
important centers of industrial activity. The good health and morale
of the prisoners was critical to the German war effort, as is
evidenced in a January 1943 order issued by SS General Richard Glücks,
chief of the office that supervised the
concentration camps. It held the camp commanders "personally
responsible for exhausting every possibility to preserve the physical
strength of the detainees." Camp Survivors: Merely Victims?
US Army investigators, working at Buchenwald and other camps, quickly
ascertained what was common knowledge among veteran inmates: that the
worst offenders, the cruelest denizens of the camps, were not the
guards but the prisoners themselves. Common criminals of the same
stripe as those who populate US prisons today committed many
villainies, particularly when they held positions of authority, and
fanatical Communists, highly organized to combat their many
political enemies among the inmates, eliminated their foes with
Stalinist ruthlessness. Two US Army investigators at Buchenwald, Egon
W. Fleck and Edward A. Tenenbaum, carefully investigated circumstances
in the camp before its liberation. In a detailed report submitted to
their superiors, they revealed, in the words of Alfred Toombs, their
commander, who wrote a preface to the report, "how the prisoners
themselves organized a deadly terror within the Nazi terror."
Fleck and Tenenbaum described the power exercised by criminals and
Communists as follows:
The trusties, who in time became almost exclusively Communist
Germans, had the power of life and death over all other inmates. They
could sentence a man or a group to almost certain death ... The
Communist trusties were directly responsible for a large part of the
brutalities at Buchenwald.
Colonel Donald B. Robinson, chief historian of the American military
government in Germany, summarized the Fleck-Tenenbaum report in an
article published in an American magazine shortly after the war.
Colonel Robinson wrote succinctly of the American investigators'
findings: "It appeared that the prisoners who agreed with the
Communists ate; those who didn't starved to death."
Additional corroboration of inmate brutality has been provided by
Ellis E. Spackman, who, as Chief of Counter-Intelligence Arrests and
Detentions for the US Seventh Army, was involved in the liberation of
Dachau. Spackman, later a professor of history at San Bernardino
Valley College in California, wrote in 1966 that at Dachau "the
prisoners were the actual instruments that inflicted the barbarities
on their fellow prisoners."
'Gas Chambers'
In December 1944 US Army officers Colonel Paul Kirk and Lt. Colonel
Edward J. Gully inspected the German concentration camp at
Struthof-Natzweiler in Alsace. They submitted their findings to their
superiors at the headquarters of the US 6th Army Group, which
subsequently forwarded their report to the US War Crimes Division.
While, significantly, the full text of their report has never been
published, it has been revealed, by a historian supportive of
Holocaust claims, that the two investigators were careful to
characterize equipment exhibited to them by French informants as a
"so-called lethal gas chamber," and to claim it was "allegedly used as
a lethal gas chamber." (Emphasis added)
Both the careful phraseology of the Natzweiler report, and its
effective suppression, stand in stark contrast to the credulity, the
confusion, and the blaring publicity that accompanied official reports
of alleged gas chambers at Dachau. At first, a US Army photo depicting
a GI gazing at a steel door marked with a skull and crossbones and the
German words for: "Caution! Gas! Mortal danger! Don't open!," was
identified as showing the murder weapon.
Later, however, it was evidently decided that the apparatus in
question was merely a standard delousing chamber for clothing, and
another alleged gas chamber, this one cunningly disguised as a shower
room, was exhibited to American congressmen and journalists as the
site where thousands breathed their last. While there exist numerous
reports in the press as to the operation of this second "gas chamber,"
no official report by trained Army investigators has yet surfaced to
reconcile such problems as the function of the shower heads: Were they
"dummies," or did lethal cyanide gas stream through them? (Each theory
has appreciable support in journalistic and historiographical literature.)
As with Dachau, so with Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen, and the other camps
liberated by the Allies in western Germany. There was no end of
propaganda about "gas chambers," "gas ovens," and the like, but so far
not a single detailed description of the murder weapon and its
function, not a single report of the kind that is mandatory for the
successful prosecution of any assault or murder case in America at
that time and today, has come to light.
Furthermore, a number of Holocaust authorities have now publicly
decreed that there were no gassings, no extermination camps in Germany
after all. (We are now told that "gassing" and "extermination" camps
were located exclusively in what is now Poland, in areas captured by
the Soviet Red Army and made off-limits to western investigators.)
Dr. Martin Broszat of the Munich-based Institute for Contemporary
History, which is funded by the German government, stated
categorically in a 1960 letter to the German weekly Die Zeit: "Neither
in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other
prisoners gassed." Professional "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal stated
in 1975 and again in 1993 that "there were no
extermination camps on German soil."
Dachau "gas chamber" No. 2, which was once presented to a stunned and
grieving world as a weapon that claimed hundreds of thousands of
lives, is now described in the brochure issued to tourists at the
modern Dachau "memorial site" in these words: "This gas chamber,
camouflaged as a shower room, was not used."
The Propaganda Intensifies
More than 50 years after American troops entered Dachau, Buchenwald
and other German camps, and trained American investigators established
the facts as to what had gone on in them, the government in
Washington, the entertainment media in Hollywood, and the print media
in New York continue to churn out millions of words and images
annually on the horrors of the camps and the infamy of the Holocaust.
Despite the fact that, with the exception of the defeated Confederacy,
no enemy of America has ever so suffered so complete and devastating
defeat as did Germany in 1945, the mass media and the politicians and
bureaucrats behave as if Hitler, his troops, and his concentration
camps continue to exist in an eternal present, and our opinion makers
continue to distort, through ignorance or malice, the facts about the
camps.
Time for the Truth
It is time that the government and the professional historians reveal
the facts about Dachau, Buchenwald and the other camps. It is time
they let the American public know how the inmates died, and how they
didn't die. It is time that the claims of mass murder by gassing are
clarified and investigated in the same manner as any other claims of
murder. It is time that the free ride certain groups have enjoyed as
the result of unchallenged Holocaust claims be terminated, just as it
is time to end the scapegoating of other groups, including Germans,
eastern Europeans, the
Roman Catholic hierarchy, and the wartime leadership of America and
Britain, either for their alleged role in the Holocaust or their
supposed failure to stop it.
Above all, it is time that the citizens of this great Republic have
the facts about the camps, facts they have a right to know, a right
that is fundamental to the exercise of their authority and their will
in the governance of their country. As citizens and as taxpayers,
Americans of all ethnic backgrounds, of all faiths, have a basic right
and an overriding interest in determining the facts of incidents that
are deemed by those in positions of power to be significant in
determining America's foreign and educational policy, as well as its
selection of past events to be memorialized in our
civic life.
Today the alleged facts of the Holocaust are at issue all over the
civilized world. The truth will be decided only by recourse to the
facts, in the public forum: not by concealing the facts, denying the
truth, stonewalling reality. The truth will out, and it is time the
government of this country, and governments and international bodies
throughout the world, make public the evidence of what actually
transpired in the German concentration camps in the years 1933-1945,
so that we may put paid to the lies, without fear or favor, and carry
out the work of reconciliation and renewal that is and must be the
granite foundation of mutual tolerance between peoples and of a peace
based on justice.
Summary
The conclusions of the early US Army investigations as to the truth
about the wartime German concentration camps have since been
corroborated by all subsequent investigators and can be summarized:
1.The harrowing scenes of dead and dying inmates were not the result
of a German policy of "extermination," but rather the result of
epidemics of typhus and other disease brought about largely by the
effects of Allied aerial attacks.
2.Stories of Nazi supercriminals and sadists who turned Jews and
others into handbags and lampshades for their private profit or
amusement were sick lies or diseased fantasies; indeed, the German
authorities punished corruption and cruelty on the part of camp
commanders and guards.
3.On the other hand, portrayals of the newly liberated inmates as
saints and martyrs of Hitlerism were quite often very far from the
truth; indeed, most of the brutalities inflicted on camp detainees
were the work of their fellow prisoners, in contravention of German
policy and German orders.
4.The alleged homicidal showers and gas chambers were used either for
bathing camp inmates or delousing their clothes; the claim that they
were used to murder Jews or other human beings is a contemptible
fabrication. Orthodox historians and professional "Nazi-hunters" have
quietly dropped claims that inmates were gassed at Dachau, Buchenwald
and other camps in Germany. They continue, however, to keep silent
regarding the lies about Dachau and Buchenwald, as well as to evade an
open discussion of the evidence for homicidal gassing at Auschwitz and
the other camps captured by the Soviets.
Institute For Historical Review
Post Office Box 2739
Newport Beach, California 92659
ZuLu
> In article <f7d4f2e6-0f7f-4ebb...@w35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 16, 5:07 am, mir...@actcom.co.il wrote:
>>> Ike and the Death Camps
>>>
>>> As Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces in World War
>>>
>>> On April 4, 1945, elements of the United States Army’s 89th Infantry
>>> Division and the 4th Armored Division captured the Ohrdruf
>>> concentration camp outside the town of Gotha in south central Germany.
>>> Although the Americans didn’t know it at the time, Ohrdruf was one of
>>> several sub-camps serving the Buchenwald extermination camp, which was
>>> close to the city of Weimar several miles north of Gotha. Ohrdruf was
>>> a holding facility for over 11,000 prisoners on their way to the gas
>>> chambers and crematoria at Buchenwald. A few days before the Americans
>>> arrived to liberate Ohrdruf, the SS guards had assembled all of the
>>> inmates who could walk and marched them off to Buchenwald.
>> Except for the fact that Army units took over the camp, every fact
>> stated in this post about Ohrdruf is a lie----and they are old lies;
>> told before the true facts finally came out and the Holocaust crowd
>> finally admitted that no camp located in Germany proper maintained gas
>> chambers; Buchenwald was not a death camp.
>
> Dachau had a gas chamber.
LOL, because you say so?
That alleged "gas chamber" is a pretext for holoks to not loose definitely their
credibility by having claimed that many inmates were gassed at Dachau.
I was taught at school that thousands of people were gassed there. On my school time,
that camp, more than Auschwitz, was the real picture of the atrocities committed by
the nazis during that war.
As it is verified untruth now, they show to tourists a room "were any gassing was
carried out" but which "could have", of course, according with them. That is pathetic.
> Hademar had a gas chamber.
Dunno that one, can you send us more information about the "gas chamber" built there?
Were some ovens installed there also?
> AUSCHWITZ, which was part of Germany at the time, contained a death camp
> and had gas chambers.
You say, so. However we are waiting for at least ONE material proof of their
existence. What we have at the moment are a lot of documents which prove that morgues
were built together with crematory ovens.
BTW, you don't make your homework to inform people about that "holokost".
I remain expecting some information :
You failed to:
1- give the coke and wood consumption at Auschwitz during its existence or even only
the years 1943 and 1944.
2- give the consumption of Zyclon B at Auschwitz during its existence.
3a- to name who were the deniers who have debunked the homicidal "steam chambers"[1]
and "electrical floor"[2] which were supported by usual "eyewitness testimonies" and
convenient "proofs" by the Russian prosecution at Nuremberg.
3b- to give which arguments were used in order to borrow those hoaxes from the DOGMA.
4- to put on line the drawing that Pressac has hidden on his book, namely the Huta's
drawing
22/10/42...109/6...7015/IV Bew. der Decke über dem Keller I/Reinforcement for the
ceiling over Leichenkeller 1.
mentioned on that list
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/pressac0317.shtml
That drawing is interesting because on it we should see how the supposed "vents" were
planned on the roof of Leichenkeller 1. On it, the reinforcement made of steel bars
is supposed to be framed in order to leave "reserves" on the poured concrete as well
as some bars must be conveniently bent around the square openings.
It is so much interesting that Pressac doesn't dare to show it.
So. to resume, why doesn't McVay make the job is paid for, especially by giving
actual and accurate information concerning the holokost?
[1] Document 3311-PS
The official Polish Government Commissioner Report on the Investigation of German
crimes in Poland describes the concentration camp at Treblinka in these terms:
"In March 1942, the Germans began to erect another camp, Treblinka B, in the
neighborhood of Treblinka A, intended to become a place of torment for Jews.
"The erection of this camp was closely connected with the German plans aiming at a
complete destruction of the Jewish population in Poland which necessitated the
creation of a machinery by means of which the Polish Jews could be killed in large
numbers. Late in April 1942, the erection of the first three chambers was finished in
which these general massacres were to be performed by means of steam. Somewhat later
the erection of the real death building was finished, which contains ten death
chambers. It was opened for wholesale murders early in autumn 1942 * * *." (3311-PS)
The report of the commission describes graphically the procedure for extermination
within the camp:
"The average number of Jews dealt with at the camp in summer 1942 was about two
railway transports daily, but there were days of much higher efficiency. From autumn
1942 this number was falling.
"After unloading in the siding all victims were assembled in one place where men were
separated from women and children. In the first days of the existence of the camp the
victims were made to believe that after a short stay in the camp, necessary for
bathing and disinfection, they would be sent farther east, for work. Explanations of
this sort were given by SS men who assisted at the unloading of the transports and
further explanations could be read in notices stuck up on the walls of the barracks.
But later, when more transports had to be dealt with, the Germans dropped all
pretenses and only tried to accelerate the procedure.
"All victims had to strip off their clothes and shoes, which were collected
afterwards, whereupon all victims. women and children first, were driven into the
death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move quickly were driven on by rifle
butts, by whipping and kicking, often by Sauer himself. Many slipped and fell, the
next victims pressed forward and stumbled over them. Small children were simply
thrown inside. After being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically
closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over. The Jewish menial workers
had to remove the bodies from the platform and to bury them in mass graves. By and
by, as new transports arrived, the cemetery grew, extending in eastern direction.
"From reports received, it may be assumed that several hundred thousands of Jews have
been exterminated in Treblinka." (3311-PS)
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/document/nca_vol1/chap_12.htm
[2] The official Polish Government Commissioner Report on the Investigation of German
crimes in Poland (Document 3311-PS )
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV:
.../
I beg to draw the attention of the Tribunal to the fact that at the end of 1941 and
in 1942 the scale of German fascist crimes committed in concentration camps reached
vast proportions. In particular, I refer to the report of the Polish Government in
confirmation of this statement. On Page 138 of the document book the members of the
Tribunal will find the testimony to the effect that in 1942 one of the most
terrifying extermination camps, the Treblinka Camp Number 2, was in rapid process of
erection. The Germans called this "Treblinka B." Further, I refer to the report of
the extraordinary State Commission on Auschwitz. The members of the Tribunal will
find the extract which I am going to quote on Page 353 in the document book, Volume
II, second column of the text, Paragraph 2. I quote a short excerpt from Page 257:
"In 1941 the first crematorium for burning the corpses of murdered people was built
in the Auschwitz Camp. This crematorium had three ovens. Attached to the crematorium
was a so-called 'special purpose bath-house.' That was a gas chamber for asphyxiating
people."
I draw the attention of the Tribunal to the following sentence:
"In the summer of 1942 the Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler inspected Auschwitz Camp and
ordered it to be greatly enlarged and technically perfected."
I end my quotation here, and I call the attention of the Tribunal to Page 136 on the
reverse side of the document book; this is from a report of the Polish Government,
which shows that the Camp Sobibur was founded during the first and second liquidation
of the Jewish ghetto. But the extermination on a large scale in this camp really
started at the beginning of 1943. In this same report, in the last paragraph on Page
136 of the document book, we may read that Camp Belsen was founded in 1940; but it
was in 1942 that the special electrical appliances were built in for mass
extermination of people. Under the pretext that the people were being led to the
576
19 Feb. 46
bath-house, the doomed were undressed and then driven to the building where the floor
was electrified in a special way; there they were killed.
ZuLu
> On Mar 16, 5:07 am, mir...@actcom.co.il wrote:
>> Ike and the Death Camps
>>
>> As Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces in World War
>>
>> On April 4, 1945, elements of the United States Army’s 89th Infantry
>> Division and the 4th Armored Division captured the Ohrdruf
>> concentration camp outside the town of Gotha in south central Germany.
>> Although the Americans didn’t know it at the time, Ohrdruf was one of
>> several sub-camps serving the Buchenwald extermination camp, which was
>> close to the city of Weimar several miles north of Gotha. Ohrdruf was
>> a holding facility for over 11,000 prisoners on their way to the gas
>> chambers and crematoria at Buchenwald. A few days before the Americans
>> arrived to liberate Ohrdruf, the SS guards had assembled all of the
>> inmates who could walk and marched them off to Buchenwald.
>
> Except for the fact that Army units took over the camp, every fact
> stated in this post about Ohrdruf is a lie----and they are old lies;
> told before the true facts finally came out and the Holocaust crowd
> finally admitted that no camp located in Germany proper maintained gas
> chambers; Buchenwald was not a death camp.
>
> German courts. While it may have been under the same administration
> as Buchenwald, it was not considered a subcamp where inmates would
> alternate working shifts.
>
> Holocaust huckster today concedes that there were no homicidal gas
> chambers at Buchenwald and no one, Jews or otherwise, was killed by
> gassing at Buchenwald. No one from Ohrdruf was marched from Ohrdruf
> to be gassed at Buchenwald. It's all an old and thoroughly exposed
> lie.
>
> surprised that such old and debunked lies are being used again. The
> technique of the Holocaust barkers is to retell the same lies over and
> over. The theory seems to be that since most people have never heard
> all the tales, repeating the same lies just might go over with some
> misinformed dupe.
War's time Propaganda. Allied as war criminals had to make nazis appear more
criminals than themselves, especially the Red Army.
A good exposition of how did it work by Robert Faurisson
<Faurisson's Interview in Tehran>
...
Q- Here, in Tehran, you began your talk with a word of warning about the photographs
said to be of Nazi atrocities. Why?
A- Because people’s minds are steeped in them. In the business of lying propaganda
nothing’s more simple and effective than the use of photographs. You don’t even need
any complicated montages. It’s enough to show images of the sick, the dying or the
dead and, in relation to these, speak of the killed, the murdered or the slaughtered.
Ordinary decent folk will be taken in. They’ll feel revulsion, indignation, anger.
They’ll no longer see what’s in front of them (the dead) but only what’s been put
into their minds (the killed). They’ll become fixated on it. They won’t take time to
think things over. In the area of false massacres the procedure stays unchanged. The
alleged massacres at Auschwitz are, from this point of view, comparable, relatively
speaking, to all the alleged massacres that may be conveniently blamed on the
defeated side of any conflict, be it at Andersonville (alleged extermination camp of
the American Civil War), Timosoara (Romania) or Kuwait City. Corpses of women and
children will do the trick especially well.
It’s the procedure that, in 1945, was resorted to by the Americans and the British,
on the one hand, and by the Soviets on the other hand. Teams of photographers or
cameramen enter such or such German camp at the moment of its liberation. The first
step is to have everything photographed or filmed. The second is to set aside for
later use, after selection, only the most pitiful or revolting images, notably from
the hospital barracks or their vicinity; pains will particularly have been taken to
get images of the typhus-sufferers, veritable walking skeletons. The third step is to
prepare commentary that will lead the public to believe the German commandants and
guards had purposely reduced those poor wretches to such a state, as they were quite
simply carrying out a policy of physical extermination of the detainees. Exceptions
aside, the photographs of some very large groups of healthy-looking inmates, jubilant
at being freed, will be hidden away. It will not be revealed that, in these camps,
there could well exist for the benefit or use of the inmates, as was the case at
Auschwitz, vast kitchens and all sorts of sanitary, medical, dental or surgical
facilities, bakeries, post offices, workshops, places for artistic or musical
recreation whose mere presence renders implausible, at the least, the existence of
any intent whatsoever on the part of the Germans to exterminate those inmates. On the
contrary, with the propagandists, a scalpel will fraudulently be shown as proof that
people were killed or tortured; a disinfection gas chamber will become proof that
people, and not vermin, were gassed; a can of Zyklon-B, a disinfection or
anti-infestation substance (Entseuchung, Entwesung) that was, accordingly, used to
preserve lives against certain deadly diseases or epidemics, will become proof that
the Germans employed it to suppress human life. The real horrors of all those camps
were the overcrowding, the close quarters and the violence incidental to detention in
such circumstances (“men are like apples: the more they’re heaped on top of each
other, the more they rot”), the prison violence, the hunger, the harsh weather, the
diseases, the epidemics. Revisionist author and activist Paul Rassinier told of all
this very well indeed. Thus, at times, many inmates were going through hell.
Q- You brought up, in particular, the British propaganda about Bergen-Belsen…
A- Yes. Winston Churchill’s compatriots achieved quite some feat there. It’s what I
call the “Bergen-Belsen bulldozer job”. In April 1945, that camp, overcrowded,
ravaged by epidemics coming from the East, famished, deprived of water in recent days
due to the Anglo-American bombing raids, had become a veritable den of infection. For
this reason the Germans sent out a delegation to Montgomery’s approaching troops to
warn them of the state of things there (and probably of the risks for everyone,
including the civilian population, should the internees all be immediately released
without any screening). The British agreed to cooperate with the Wehrmacht, but not
with the SS, in order to attempt to remedy the situation. Then they saw fit to open
the numerous common graves, count the bodies and finally, pile those bodies into
great, deep ditches. To push all the corpses towards the ditches they used a
bulldozer. In a film shot on site we are shown the bulldozer in action. A selection
of these images has been passed on to posterity, notably thanks to the documentary
(documendaciary?) Night and Fog (1955). Millions of viewers have believed that here
they’ve seen proof of the Germans’ killing their captives, day after day, on an
industrial scale. Very rare indeed must be those who’ve been able to make out that
the bulldozer driver is a British soldier and not a German soldier. In 1978 a book
published in South Africa with the aim of thwarting any revision of the “Holocaust”
presented a still photo of the bulldozer and the bodies but not without “cutting off”
the driver’s head: the obvious intent was to have us believe the driver was German.
Moreover, with time, in the minds of some, amongst whom Maurice Druon of the Académie
française, “that” bulldozer, in the singular, has, of course, become “those”
bulldozers. One could go on and on listing the very crudest procedures of this
propaganda rooted in atrocity stories. Thus it is that we’re cunningly shown piles of
shoes and eyeglasses or heaps of hair as if they were evidence that the people they
came from were gassed; here the propagandists are sure to avoid reminding us that, in
a Europe subjected to blockade and reduced to general penury, nothing was thrown
away: everything was recovered and recycled, including hair, which served a
particular purpose in the textile industry. There were countless workshops recycling
leather, glass, metal or wood, both in the camps and in the towns and villages. The
“suitcase job” is also worth noting. A very well-known photograph shows us, at
Auschwitz, suitcases carefully stacked and presented as the pieces of luggage on
which each doomed owner had taken the trouble to write his or her name and address
before being sent to the gas chamber. However, a close look shows that the names and
addresses are all written in the same hand and with the same white substance.
Consequently, here it is a question, in reality, of a task performed at the entrance
of every detention centre: new prisoners’ belongings are tagged and registered by the
prison clerks. Thus had Marcel Bloch-Dassault, long after the war, been able to
receive from Germany the wallet confiscated from him upon entry at Buchenwald. One
evening he could be seen, on French television, exhibiting that wallet, opening it
and taking out the four-leaf clover that was in it at his arrival in the camp. That
said, there’s no doubt the German authorities must have drawn from the vast stores
and confiscated effects to distribute some of them to the civilian population ravaged
by the bombings and deprived of everything.
Q- Wasn’t it at Bergen-Belsen that Anne Frank and her sister Margot died?
A- Yes, in late February or early March of 1945. They died of typhus. Still long
after the war the official truth had it that that they’d been gassed at Auschwitz, a
camp where they effectively spent some time before their transfer to Bergen-Belsen.
Their fate makes them deserving of pity. But a good deal more pitiable still was the
fate of the German civilian populations killed or burned alive by the Anglo-American
bomber squadrons. A German man had the idea, after the war, to consult a book with
the register of those killed in the bombing of the city of Würzburg in the night of
March 24, 1945 alone; in that list of more than 5,000 he noted, I think, 128 women or
girls bearing the Christian name Anne or a closely associated one. There’s hardly
much talk of those women or girls systematically killed solely for being German, is
there?
...
</Faurisson's Interview in Tehran>
Complete article, a must read
Robert Faurisson interviewed in Tehran
Tehran, December 13, 2006
Interview with Professor Robert Faurisson at the Guest House of the Ministry of
Foreign Affairs of the Islamic Republic of Iran
ZuLu
> In article <G4Evl.18426$PH1.18035@edtnps82>,
> Truthseeker <kur...@citywest.ca> wrote:
>> Interesting has Eisenhower seen what he has done to the German civilian
>> population.
>
> What Ike did was see to it that assholes like you and your sewer trash
> family received 1200 calories each per day, just like everyone else in
> Germany, including DPs and German POWs in American hands.
>
> General Eisenhower kept you alive, you sorry, ungrateful son of a bitch.
>
The information given in the media implies that Bacque (and perhaps one or two
others) is the only person making these claims against Eisenhower - this is
incorrect.
The following people can already be added to the list :
1. Martin Brech – he wrote the book “In Eisenhower's Death Camps: A
U.S. Prison Guard's Story”, in which he describes his personal
experiences in Germany after the war.
2. Colonel Ernest F. Fisher, 101st Airborne Division, Senior
Historian, United States Army – he wrote "Starting in April 1945, the
United States Army and the French Army casually annihilated one
million [German] men, most of them in American camps . . .
Eisenhower's hatred, passed through the lens of a compliant military
bureaucracy, produced the horror of death camps unequalled by anything
in American history . . . an enormous war crime."
3. General Robert Littlejohn - in a memorandum, he informed Eisenhower
that 1,550,000 Germans who were supposed to be receiving U.S. army
rations were getting nothing.
4. Colonel James Mason and Colonel Charles Beasley, U.S. Army Medical
Corps – they published a paper on the US prison camps in 1950,
including the following description : "Huddled close together for
warmth, behind the barbed wire was a most awesome sight; nearly
100,000 haggard, apathetic, dirty, gaunt, blank-staring men clad in
dirty gray uniforms, and standing ankle deep in mud."
5. Max Huber, head of the International Red Cross – he wrote a letter
to the U.S. State Department describing American interference in
efforts to save starving Germans. Some months later he received a
response, falsely claiming that giving Red Cross food to enemy
personnel was forbidden.
6. Jean-Pierre Pradervand, head of the International Red Cross
delegations in France - in late 1945 he told Henry W. Dunning (an
American Red Cross official) that conditions in the French camps were
worse, in many instances, than anything seen in the former Nazi camps.
And the list is still growing...
ZuLu
> In article <G4Evl.18426$PH1.18035@edtnps82>,
> Truthseeker <kur...@citywest.ca> wrote:
>> Interesting has Eisenhower seen what he has done to the German civilian
>> population.
>
> What Ike did was see to it that assholes like you and your sewer trash
> family received 1200 calories each per day, just like everyone else in
> Germany, including DPs and German POWs in American hands.
>
> General Eisenhower kept you alive, you sorry, ungrateful son of a bitch.
GI testimony on POW US Eisenhower's camps
By Martin Brech
FORTY-FIVE years ago, I witnessed an atrocity: the deliberate
starvation of German POWs by our own army. History, written by the
victors, suppressed all news of this atrocity until James Bacque, a
Canadian author, published his brilliant expose, OTHER LOSSES. This
book is a best seller in Canada, a sensation in Europe, yet is
virtually unavailable (censored?) in the U.S. Our major booksellers
told me their distributors are not handling it. When I prevailed upon
a small, independent bookstore to order direct from Canada, the
publisher told them they would be the only store in New York State to
carry the book. This in 'the land of the free'?"
Fortunately, Pat Buchanan called attention to OTHER LOSSES in his
January 10, 1990 column. He wrote:
"Conclusion: the U.S. Army killed ten times as many Germans in POW
camps as we did on battlefields from Normandy to V.E. day. (German
POWs) had their rations cut below survival level until they were
dying at rates up to 30% of exposure, starvation and neglect... Red Cross
food trains were turned back and U.S. food shipments sat on the
docks...One French officer said the U.S. camps reminded him of Dachau
and Buchenwald...The book blames Eisenhower. 'The German is a beast,'
Ike had written... But that was not how the Canadians and British
felt, who treated their prisoners justly...It was not the view of
General Mark Clark, nor of Patton...Ignoring the book is not enough."
Pat Buchanan's courageous column inspired me to help end the cover-up
of the atrocity I had witnessed. I wrote letters to several
newspapers which were, of necessity, short and incomplete. Now I would like to
finally free more of my painful memories, hoping to be heard, so that
this will help us to acknowledge our share in the "banality of evil",
cleansing ourselves with the truth. Perhaps we as a nation may then
put this behind us with some integrity and with some hope for
redemption.
In October 1944, at age eighteen, I was drafted into the army while a
student at the NYS College of Forestry. Largely due to the "Battle of
the Bulge", my training was cut short, my furlough cut in half, and I
was then immediately sent overseas. Upon arrival in Le Havre, France,
we were quickly loaded into boxcars and shipped to the front. By the
time we reached it, I had developed mononucleosis severely enough to
be sent to a hospital in Belgium.
By the time I left the hospital, the unit I had trained with in
Spartenburg, South Carolina was so deeply into Germany that I warn
placed in a "repo depo" (a replacement depot) despite my protests. I
then lost interest in which units I was assigned to because
non-combat units were generally not respected. My separation qualification
record states that I served mostly with the 14th Infantry Regiment, during
which time I guarded prisoners of war and served as an interpreter.
During my seventeen month stay in Germany, I was transferred to other
outfits also.
In late March or early April 1945, I was assigned to help guard a POW
camp near Andernach along the Rhine. I had four years of high school
German, so I was able to talk to the prisoners, although this was
forbidden.
Gradually, however, I was used as an interpreter and asked to ferret
out the S.S. (I found none.)
In Andernach, between 50,000 and 65,000 prisoners, ranging in age
from very young teens to very old men, were crowded together in an open
field surrounded by barbed wire. The women were kept in a separate
enclosure which I did not see until later. The men I guarded had no
tents or other shelter, no blankets and many had no coats. Inadequate
numbers of slit trenches were provided for excrement, and so the men
lived and slept in the mud and increasing filth during a cold, wet
spring. Their misery from exposure alone was evident.
It was even more shocking to see them eating grass, sometimes
throwing it into a tin can containing a thin soup. They told me they did this
hoping to ease their hunger pains. Soon their emaciation was evident.
Dysentery raged and, too weak and crowded to reach the slit trenches,
they were increasingly sleeping in excrement. I saw no sign of
provision for water, so the thin soup was their food and water for
the day. Some days there was bread, less than a slice each. Other days
there was nothing.
The sight of so many men desperate for food and water, sickening and
dying before our eyes, is indescribable. Even now, I can only think
of it momentarily.
We had ample food and supplies that could have been shared more
humanely, and we could have offered some medical assistance, but did
nothing. Only the dead were quickly and efficiently taken care of:
hauled away to mass graves.
My outrage reached the point that I protested to my officers, but I
was met with hostility or bland indifference. When pressed, they
explained they were under strict orders from "higher up". No officer
would dare to systematically do this to over 50,000 prisoners if he
felt he was violating general policy and subject to court martial.
The term "war criminal" was just beginning to come into fashion.
Realizing my protests were useless, I asked a friend working in the
kitchen if he could slip me some extra food for the prisoners. He too
repeated that they were under strict orders to severely ration the
prisoners' food, and that these orders came from "higher up". But he
said they had more food than they knew what to do with and would
sneak me some.
When I threw this food over the barbed wires to the prisoners I was
caught and threatened with imprisonment. I repeated the "offense",
and one officer threatened to shoot me. I naturally assumed this was a
bluff, but I began to have some doubts after I encountered a captain
on a hill above the Rhine shooting down at a group of German civilian
women with his .45 caliber pistol. When I asked, "Why?" he mumbled,
"Target practice," and fired until his pistol was empty. I saw the
women running for cover, but, at that distance, couldn't tell if any
had been hit.
This is when I more fully realized I was dealing with some cold-
blooded killers filled with moralistic hatred. They considered the
Germans sub-human and worthy of extermination; another expression of
the downward spiral of racism. Articles in the G.I. newspaper, Stars
& Stripes, played up the Nazi concentration camps, complete with
photographs of emaciated bodies; this amplified our self-righteous
cruelty and made it easier to imitate behavior we were supposed to
oppose. Also, I think, soldiers not exposed to combat were trying to
prove how tough they were by taking it out on the prisoners and
civilians. At least, many combat soldiers told me later they would
not have tolerated this, for they combined hatred with respect for a
courageous enemy.
The prisoners I spoke to were mostly simple farmers and workingmen,
as ignorant, albeit nationalistic, as many of our own troops. I heard
many versions of "my country, right or wrong, my country," which we
still hear in our own country today.
As time went on, many of them lapsed into a Zombie-like state of
listlessness. Others, maddened by thirst, tried to escape in a
desperate or suicidal fashion, running through open fields in broad
daylight towards the Rhine to quench their thirst. They were mowed
down.
Some prisoners were extremely eager for cigarettes, saying they took
the edge off their hunger. Accordingly, some enterprising G.I.
"Yankee traders" were acquiring hordes of wrist watches and rings in exchange
for handfuls of cigarettes or less. When I began throwing cartons of
cigarettes to the prisoners to ruin this trade, I found myself
threatened by rank-and-file G.I.s also. At least this taught me an
indelible lesson: how wrong majorities and authorities can be.
A bright spot in this gloomy picture came, oddly enough, one night
when I was put on the "graveyard shift", from two to four A.M.
Actually, there was a graveyard on the uphill side of this enclosure,
not many yards away. My superiors had forgotten to give me a
flashlight and I hadn't bothered to ask, being disgusted with the
whole situation by that time. It was a fairly bright night and I soon
became aware of a prisoner crawling under the wires to the graveyard.
We were supposed to shoot escapees on sight, so I started to get up
to warn him to get back. Suddenly I noticed another prisoner crawling
from the graveyard back to the enclosure. They were risking their
lives to get to the graveyard for something; I had to investigate.
When I entered the gloom of this shrubby, tree-shaded cemetery, I
never felt more vulnerable, but somehow curiosity kept me going.
Despite my caution, I tripped over the legs of someone in a prone
position. Whipping my rifle around while stumbling and trying to
regain composure of mind and body, I soon was relieved I hadn't
reflexively fired. The figure sat up, moving erratically. Gradually I
could see the beautiful but terror-stricken face of a woman with a
picnic basket nearby. German civilians were not allowed to feed, nor
even come near, the prisoners, so I quickly assured her I approved of
what she was doing, not to be afraid, and that I would leave the
graveyard to get out of the way, telling no one.
I left the graveyard as quickly as possible and sat down, leaning
against a tree at the edge CF the cemetery to be inconspicuous and
not frighten the prisoners. I imagined then, and often since, what it
would be like to be a prisoner under those conditions and meet a
beautiful woman with a picnic basket. I never saw her again, but I
have never forgotten her face.
While I watched, more prisoners crawled to and from the enclosure. I
saw they were dragging food back to their comrades and could only
admire their courage and devotion. As I walked back to my quarters at
the end of my shift, a nightingale and I were singing -- both felt a
touch of spring.
(I originally did not intend to reveal the following incident, for it
moves into a realm termed "mystical". However, for me, it was an
extremely significant experience, changing my life, providing a light
no darkness can extinguish. It must be told, hoping it will foster
understanding.)
On May 8, V.E. day, I decided to celebrate with some prisoners I was
guarding who were baking bread, meager amounts of which the other
prisoners occasionally received. This group had all the bread they
could eat, and shared the jovial mood generated by the end of the
war. We all thought we would be going home soon, a pathetic hope on their
part. We were in what was to become the French zone, and I later
witnessed the brutality of the French soldiers when we transferred
our prisoners to them for their slave labor camps (see below).
However, on this day we were happy.
After chatting with them about the potentials of peace for the rest
of our lives, I decided to risk a gesture of trust that objectively
would seem foolish. I emptied my rifle and stood it in the corner. They
tested me further by asking to play with it, and I agreed.
Intuitively I felt I could rely on their sense of honor not to attack me, for
they knew they too were being tested. This thoroughly 'broke the ice', and
soon we were singing songs we taught each other or I had learned in
high school German ("Du, du, liegst mir im Herzen"). Out of
gratitude, they secretly baked a small sweet bread and insisted I take it,
explaining it was the only possible gift they had left to offer.
Expressing my gratitude with a lump in my throat, I put it in my
tight "Eisenhower jacket" so I could sneak it back to my barracks. I later
found an opportunity to eat it outside.
Never had bread tasted more delicious, nor conveyed to me a deeper
sense of communion while eating it. A wonderful feeling pervaded me,
gently opening me to an intimation of the Oneness of all Being.
Through those prisoners I sensed the ~cosmic presence of what has
been called the Christ, Buddha-nature, or, perhaps most aptly, the
Ineffable: cosmically present, but hidden and apparently separate,
until revealed in the wholeness of the giving of the self. Even
within the horror humans had created, I was taught a path to redemption may
open by taking a first, tentative step in the direction of love,
understanding and forgiveness. This above all the prisoners taught
me: not only are we all potentially humane humans, there is divinity
within us waiting for us to dissolve the defensive shield of ego. I
was pleased to discover later the words of Matthew 25:34-46,
expressing the potential within prisoners and all who are at our
mercy.
Shortly after this experience I was plunged into even greater horror.
Some of our weak and sickly prisoners were being marched off by
French soldiers to their camp. The truck we were on first passed another
truck picking up bodies along the side of the road, and then came up
behind a slowly moving column of men. Temporarily we slowed down and
remained behind, perhaps because the driver was as shocked as I was.
The French soldiers were apparently incensed at the poor condition of
our prisoners, not only for labor but for marching to another camp.
Whenever a prisoner staggered or dropped back, the French clubbed him
to death and then dragged him to the side of the road. For many, this
quick death might have been preferable to their prolonged suffering.
Even gas would have been more merciful than our murder by neglect in
our slow 'killing fields'...
Martin Brech
(Adjunct Professor, Philosophy & Religion, Mercy College;
Ex-G.I., Finally Free)
ZuLu
> On 16 Mar, 20:33, Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>
> The story goes that the Germans worked hard to
>> kill all the Jews in a Holocaust, but all the survivors who saw a
>> Holocaust are Jews.
>
> This one was not:-
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Way_for_the_Gas,_Ladies_and_Gentlemen
How much non-jews we have?
They should be at least 3 times more than jewish "eyewitnesses" or even more because
they weren't supposed to be gassed themselves.
The location of the "death factories" at Birkenau show that thousands of inmates were
able to have a look on what was going on there.
THOUSANDS OF POTENTIAL EYEWITNESSES EVERY DAY!!!!
How many reports?
Why have we so little number?
To be noticed that we have also testimonies claiming to have never saw or heard any
case of "homicidal gassings" at Auschwitz. There are not largely published to not say
hidden.
Elie Wiesel himself saw nothing of the sort. He chose to tell that nazis threw people
alive in the flames as way of extermination at that camp. Bad luck.
<zulu>
Why SS put deliberately their "killing factory" on the road to Zentral Sauna?
Extract from *ABOUT THE GAS CHAMBERS HOAX* by Zulu
---> Now comes the best. WE have to observe how SS managed the lay out of the
"industrial killing factories" at Birkenau in order to murder thousands of
people SECRETLY. Try to figure out how the SS made their "industrial
installation".
Amazingly, the nazis built at Birkenau, în the middle of the 4 "killing
Krema", the more modern equipment available at that time in order to fight epidemics
including typhus.
THE BIRKENAU "ZENTRAL SAUNA" WITH ITS DISINFECTION AUTOCLAVES AND ITS TOPF
DISINFESTATION OVENS
.../
The Zentral Sauna was the most comprehensive disinfection and disinfestation
installation in KGL Birkenau. Designed after the “sanitary crisis” of August
1942 (typhus epidemic), the first three drawings for it date from November 1942
[Drawings 1, 2 and 3]. Its equipment was to include three disinfection
autoclaves and four Topf disinfestation hot air chambers [Drawing 4].
.../
THE EFFECTS DISINFECTION AND DISINFESTATION OPERATIONS
These operations as carried out at the Zentral Sauna were described in a letter
sent to the Auschwitz Museum by a Czech former prisoner:
(Summary)
The procedures used were:
1. Hot air: Large and heavy effects, such as coats, outer clothing, etc.;
2. Steam: “light” effects, such as underclothes, shirts and any type of
clothing considered as light, for example the “Zebra-Kleider,” prison uniforms.
Blankets were also included in this group
3. Other: Leather objects, such au shoes, belts. etc. were disinfected using
Karbol. Lysol or water containing hydrocyanic acid, a mixture obtained by
pouring Zyklon-B crystals into the water.
This letter mentions that the operations continued 24 hours a day, with three
shifts of prisoners on this task, changing every eight hours.
It will be noted that the methods described by this former prisoner were almost
identical with those used in the US Army at that time [see following page],
...
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm
BUT, NOT ONLY all those prophylactic equipments were installed in the MIDDLE OF
4 KILLING FACTORIES.
It was also there an HOSPITAL, 2 SPORT'S FIELDS and 30 BARRACKS !!!!!
All separated by "transparent fences" made with barbed wires.
Try to imagine the fluxes and moves of all that people going there to be
disinfes-fected while crossing the way of the numerous ones who were "on their
way to be gassed".
Some holoks insist in sustaining that Zentral Sauna NEVER WORKED while others
prefer to silent its existence.
Here, we have the testimony of a French woman sent to Zentral Sauna in July 1943:
"THE FIRST DELOUSING Experienced at Birkenau (Womens Camp)"
Macha RAVINE, 35,334.
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0054.htm
It mustn't be very difficult to gather other testimonies concerning the normal
life at the camps including regular prophylactic measures applied to prisoners.
But, we must observe that Macha RAVINE didn't see ANY QUEUE of JEWS TO BE GASSED
on her way to Zentral Sauna and her return. That is an interesting point in
summer 1943 when the "4 killing factories" were supposed to be working.
ANY PRISONER MENTIONED THAT FACT.
The DOGMA says: Hundreds of thousands jews "disappeared upon arrival" after the
"selection" step and then NOBODY has seen them again, Amen.
ISN'T IT UNBELIEVABLE?
YOu must think I invent all that stuff.
So, observe the lay out of the installations at Birkenau
See the top of the plan
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Images/051-01.jpg
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0051.htm
http://www.encyclopedie.bseditions.fr/image/article/plan/NAZIPLANBIRK0001.jpg
If someone has a better detailed plan I'll take it.
Anyway, we can see the respective position of the Krema II to V - the supposed
"killing factories"- the Zentral sauna and 30 barracks.
Sorry , I missed the link where the sport's fields appear clearly on the drawing
but don't worry, any holok "denies" that it was a sport's field there.
They simply doesn't talk about it.
But that plan is useful to figure out all those people's moves
between each building, the "normal prisoners" going and returning from Zentral
Sauna or Hospital crossing the files of "to be gassed" ones or the "killing
workers" supposedly hosted in the 30 barracks while a soccer party was played on
that place.
Not only the sonderkommandos were "seeing" the "horror" occurring
there.
Thus, to resume, at that little zone of Birkenau
- There were thousands of normal prisoners sent regularly from main camp to
Zentral Sauna at Birkenau to be disinfest-disinfested (and sent back).
- There were a lot of prisoners sent to the hospital (and sent back).
- There were a lot of prisoners living in the 30 barracks.
- There were a lot of prisoners playing soccer on the sport's field and others
watching.
- There were a lot of civilian workers of sub-contractors operating there who
came back home every day.
All those installations were IN THE MIDDLE OF 4 KILLING FACTORIES
only separated by barbed wires !!!!
So, those people were walking in the middle of "the queues of Jews supposed to
be gassed" according to the lay out of that place.
That what I call the "Zentral Sauna gambit".
Explain how could the SS maintain SECRET their work of EXTERMINATION in the
MIDDLE of ALL THAT WALKING-WATCHING PEOPLE ?????
How can we think that the nazis planned those supposed "industrial killing
factories" to operate them "SECRETLY"?
AND where are the "eyewitnesses testimonies" of those thousands of normal prisoners
survivors or civilian sub-contractors who MUST have seen the "queues of thousands of
jews at the doors of gas chambers".
Or, do you pretend that batches of 2000 people sent there CONTINUOUSLY
couldn't be seen at that place from people passing their time being there?
<zulu>
ZuLu
I can't see many details about the places, the modus operandi of the "massive
gassings" he support to have occurred there.
ZuLu
> In article <7261f3c6-9c53-46ee...@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> Morbid Fungus <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 16, 1:02 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>> In article <7fb753c2-82ea-4201-9070-24337ef5a...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,Morbid
>> Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
>>>> witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
>>>> camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
>>> Please document your claim that the witnesses who describe mass murder at
>>> the German-run concentration camps were "virtually" all Jews.
>>>
>>> Explain how you determined that the perpetrators who agreed with the
>>> survivors (Jewish and Gentile) were German national Gentiles.
>>>
>>> I'll wait.
>>>
>> That's strange . . . I said the survivors were all Jews and you point
>> to "perpetrators who agreed with the survivors." Why perpetrators?
>> Why not non-Jewish survivors? If you would like to refute my point
>> that all the people claiming a Holocaust were Jews, why not point to
>> non-Jewish survivors who support the all-Jewish concoction of a
>> Holocaust?
>
> I have met a good many Gentile survivors. That I mention perpetrators
> simply indicates that they are the most direct route to proving that you
> lied.
>
>
Post right here testimonies from non jewish people who have saw "queues of thousands
of jews at the doors of the gas chambers" at BIRKENAU.
They must be dozens of thousands potential witnesses who have "seen" such things, if
they actually occurred of course.
I am waiting.
<zulu>
GASSINGS PERFORMED SECRETLY ??? MY ASS !!!
The main LIE from sonderkommandos (revendicated to be among the most valuable
eyewitnesses of the *extermination* by the DOGMA) is that they always claim that the
gassings were performed under the MAXIMUM SECRET and SS even killed them routinely in
order to maintain HIDDEN SUCH BIG SECRET.
BY observing where the 4 *killing factories" were built at Birkenau, anybody can
observe that such assertion is a major shit bounded on the DOGMA's pants.
How can serious historians swallow such ineptness?
Don't they know how to read a plan?
There were THOUSANDS OF INMATES ABLE TO SEE OR EVEN CROSS EVERY DAY THE SUPPOSED
*QUEUES OF 2000-2500 JEWS AT THE DOORS OF THE GAS CHAMBERS*.
The 2 ways to go to Zentral Sauna from the barracks are the same which gives access
to the "killing factories" !!!!!
http://holocaust-info.dk/auschwitz/Auschwitz/map.jpg
THAT IS A FACT !!!
.../
.../
(Summary)
The procedures used were:
...
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0054.htm
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Images/051-01.jpg
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0051.htm
http://bp2.blogger.com/_AB36D4g8j4Q/R8GSpDSjaqI/AAAAAAAAAVI/eOZ0ebOThj8/s1600-h/IMG_3072.JPG
http://www.encyclopedie.bseditions.fr/image/article/plan/NAZIPLANBIRK0001.jpg
If someone has a better detailed plan I'll take it.
Anyway, we can see the respective position of the Krema II to V - the supposed
"killing factories"- the Zentral sauna and 30 barracks.
Sorry , I missed the link where the sport's fields appear clearly on the drawing
but don't worry, any holok "denies" that it was a sport's field there.
They simply doesn't talk about it.
The sport's fields, a large white area, are located under the nose of the right lower
bomb on that photo, close to the hospital (BIIf)
That's the zone of the label "Hopital des detenus" under K III label of that map
http://www.encyclopedie.bseditions.fr/image/article/plan/NAZIPLANBIRK0001.jpg
Despite the fact that any holoks' site mentions such fields, Faurisson claimed there
were 2 fields, 1 of soccer and 1 of volley-ball.
But that plan above is useful to figure out all those people's moves
between each building, the "normal prisoners" going and returning from Zentral
Sauna or Hospital crossing the files of "to be gassed" ones or the "killing
workers" supposedly hosted in the 30 barracks while a soccer party was played on
that place.
Not only the sonderkommandos were "seeing" the "horror" occurring
there. As consequence, we can assume without any doubt that ALL SONDERKOMMANDOS LIE
when they affirm that the gassings were performed SECRETLY. A single cross
examination based on the lay out of the Kremas and other installations on the same
zone of Birkenau should be enough to demonstrate that point.
Thus, to resume, at that little zone of Birkenau
- There were thousands of normal prisoners sent regularly from main camp to
Zentral Sauna at Birkenau to be disinfest-disinfested (and sent back).
- There were a lot of prisoners sent to the hospital (and sent back).
- There were a lot of prisoners living in the 30 barracks.
- There were a lot of prisoners playing soccer on the sport's field and others
watching.
- There were a lot of civilian workers of sub-contractors operating there who
came back home every day. AT the hospital not less than 60 doctor plus 300 nurses
were working dairy.
All those installations were IN THE MIDDLE OF 4 KILLING FACTORIES
only separated by barbed wires !!!!
So, those people were walking in the middle of "the queues of Jews supposed to
be gassed" according to the lay out of that place.
That what I call the "Zentral Sauna gambit".
Explain how could the SS maintain SECRET their work of EXTERMINATION in the
MIDDLE of ALL THAT WALKING-WATCHING PEOPLE ?????
How can we think that the nazis planned those supposed "industrial killing
factories" to operate them "SECRETLY"?
AND where are the "eyewitnesses testimonies" of those thousands of normal prisoners
survivors or civilian sub-contractors who MUST have seen the "queues of thousands of jews
at the doors of gas chambers".
Or, do you pretend that batches of 2000 people sent there CONTINUOUSLY
couldn't be seen at that place from people passing their time being there?
</zulu>
RJ11
> That alleged "gas chamber" is a pretext for holoks to not loose definitely their
> credibility by having claimed that many inmates were gassed at Dachau.
>
> I was taught at school that thousands of people were gassed there.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?people/r/rascher.sigmund//images/Rascher1.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.py?people/r/rascher.sigmund//images/Rascher2.jpg
Two pages of letter from Dr. Rascher to Reichsfuehrer Himmler,
suggesting to use the Dachau gassing facilities to test "combat
gases" on inmates. Page 2 contains the following: translation
courtesy of Dr. Hansjoerg Walther, John Morris, and another
contributor.
Wie Sie wissen, wird im KL Dachau dieselbe Einricht[ung] wie
in Linz gebaut. Nachdem die "Invalidentransporte" sowieso in
bestimmten Kammern enden, frage ich, ob nicht in diesen Kammern
an den sowieso dazu bestimmten Personen die Wirkung unserer
verschiedenen Kampfgase erprobt werden kann? Bis jetzt liegen
nur Tierversuche bezw. Berichte ueber Unfaelle bei Herstellung
dieser Gase vor. Wegen dieses Absatzes schicke ich den Brief
als "Geheimsache."
[As you know, the same facility is being built at the
concentration camp Dachau as at Linz [Hartheim]. Since the
"transports of invalids" end up in certain chambers anyway, I
enquire whether in these chambers the effects of our various
combat gases cannot be tested on the persons who are destined
for it anyway. Sofar only animal tests are known, or accounts
of accidental deaths in the manufacture of these gases. Because
of this paragraph, I send this letter marked "Secret".]
</quote>
RJ.
RJ11
> GI testimony on POW US Eisenhower's camps
With regard to another of Mr. Bacque's conclusions, he arrives at his
sensational figure of one million dead through a system of analysis
that has left almost everyone who has tried to check his statistics
and methods befuddled. He did make one mistake because of a typing
error by a clerk. He saw a figure of 70,000 prisoners in an Army
medical report and then calculated the total death rate for all
prisoners in American hands on the basis of that number and the 21,000
deaths also mentioned in the report. That is, he arrived at his most
basic conclusion, a death rate in all camps of 30 percent, by dividing
the 21,000 deaths by the 70,000 prisoners. However, the 70,000 figure
should have been 10 times higher. All other figures in the document
make it clear that the correct number of prisoners was 700,000. This
would make the death rate not 30 percent but 3 percent.
In fact, as Albert Cowdrey of the Department of the Army's Center of
Military History reported to the conference, the overall death rate
among German prisoners was 1 percent.
RJ.
RJ11
> Buchenwald was NOT A SO-CALLED EXTERMINATION CAMP.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
RJ.
RJ11
(snip)
In a memo written on September 8 1942, Kurt Prufer of the
firm "Topf and Sons" stated that Auschwitz officials are not
satisfied with a cremation capacity of 2,650 corpses per day,
and "we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible".
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/
RJ.
RJ11
> There were THOUSANDS OF INMATES ABLE TO SEE OR EVEN CROSS EVERY DAY
> THE SUPPOSED *QUEUES OF 2000-2500 JEWS AT THE DOORS OF THE GAS CHAMBERS*.
Not really, snivel.
http://remember.org/camps/birkenau/
Look where the crematoriums are.
RJ.
john...@gmail.com
>
> > What about Oskar Groning, how do you think he came to lie? Do you
> > think he is a publicity seeker or is he bribed by the Israelis?
> >http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,355188,00.html
>
> > He unbuttons and rolls up his left sleeve. "Here," he says, "look at
> > this."
>
> > There is a tiny blue dot above his elbows, the remainder of a tattoo.
> > "It was poorly executed," he says. It was supposed to be a zero,
> > representing blood type O. Everyone in Auschwitz was tattooed,
> > prisoners and guards alike. Jews were tattooed with their inmate
> > number and SS guards with their blood type. Oskar Gröning was a member
> > of the SS in Auschwitz for two years.
>
> I can't see many details about the places, the modus operandi of the "massive
> gassings" he support to have occurred there.
A different question. Try this first. What about Oskar Groning, how
john...@gmail.com
> "Greg Carr" <gregpc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:nfstr4ldc7023g4oa...@4ax.com...
>
> > What did the Palestinians do to incur the wrath of Kuwait?
>
> The Palestinians employed as 'guest workers' in Kuwait sided with Iraq when
> they invaded.
>
Chris X
"Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote in message
news:%5hvl.63578$Yl7....@newsfe30.ams2...
> The holocaust evidence is overwhelming,
Zzzzzzz .... so you keep saying, "Lee" - and I think we all know *why*.
William Black
<john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:08e47ff9-bd5f-4602...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Picking the wrong side seems to be a Palestinian talent.
john...@gmail.com
> <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:08e47ff9-bd5f-4602...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 17 Mar, 10:44, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >> "Greg Carr" <gregpc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>
> >>news:nfstr4ldc7023g4oa...@4ax.com...
>
> >> > What did the Palestinians do to incur the wrath of Kuwait?
>
> >> The Palestinians employed as 'guest workers' in Kuwait sided with Iraq
> >> when
> >> they invaded.
>
> > Don't blame them really, given the way the Kuwaitis treated them..
>
> Picking the wrong side seems to be a Palestinian talent.
you bastard
William Black
<john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d901cf1e-4a16-4636...@d19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Well, you gotta laugh haven't you.
Here they are, guest workers in Kuwait, badly done to, about to get
attacked by someone who is, by any measure, a tinpot dictator. So, with
the reasonable possibility of support to any resistance from the greatest
military power in the world, who look like they may come to the rescue,
they promptly side with the tinpot dictator...
In WWII, of course, they had the choice between loopy Adolf and the
relatively decent Brits, and promptly go for Adolf even though they know
he's a carpet chewing genocide maniac, because he doesn't like Jews...
Trying to take over Jordan wasn't one of their better moves either...
Watching Palestinians doing geopolitics is like watching an elephant tap
dance.
You know it's going to end with a loudish bang and some local damage and
whoever's helping the elephant is going to get crushed, but you can't take
your eyes off . You keep wondering if they'll bring down the whole circus
in some ghastly conflagration that will consume us all in their frantic
efforts to do the impossible.
Lee
"Chris X" <Chris...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uKKdnY4u5dhscCLU...@giganews.com...
Er because it is.
Topaz
Filmed on location at the Auschwitz camp site in Poland, this stunning
video by Jewish-American investigator David Cole shows that the "gas
chamber" that has been displayed to hundreds of thousands of tourists
is actually a propaganda prop. Alicia, an official tour guide, assures
David Cole, on camera, that the "gas chamber" in the main camp that is
shown to visitors is in its original, unaltered state. Then Dr.
Franciszek Piper, head curator of the Auschwitz State Museum,
acknowledges to Cole that this "gas chamber" is actually a postwar
creation. This video also tackles other Holocaust claims, including
the "human soap" fable. Shows that fraudulent "proofs" of homicidal
gassings were produced after the end of World War II, and that
visitors to the Auschwitz camp site have been systematically deceived
for decades.
http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/
contrarian
Lee
"contrarian" <contr...@times.ca> wrote in message
news:34Yvl.67345$FI5....@newsfe07.iad...
The evidence was compiled in a time before everyone jumped through hoops to
please the nearest Islamist.
mir...@actcom.co.il
> nationalities that you mentioned above was an inmate in a German
> concentration camp. He was released right at the end of the war when
> most if not all of the inmates were released and the camps were
> closed. The Germans exploited the prisoners very badly by hard work
> and insufficient food rations, however, no one was "exterminated"
> because of his nationality. He saw no Holocaust. When my father was
> finally released, he came back a man with a broken health and he died
> at age 61 without ever recovering his health. I am, therefore, very
> surprised to see all these Jewish Holocaust survivors living past 90
> in good health, after according to their stories being incarcerated in
> those horrible German camps. It's really beyond comprehension.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You posted that this camp was a Arbeitserziehung Hedderheim [lager]
camp ,
This was a camp were people who refused to work , or had any A-Social
behaviours were sent to get reeducated for willing to work ,,, NO jews
were ever sent to such camps , Mostly Germans were sent there for Re-
education , with some select non Germans ,,Thus the Georg XXXXX who
recieved this document could not have seen Jews , nore did he see how
they were treated in Extermination camps , Hederheim was Not a
concentartion camp it was a Re-education Detention camp ,
mirjam
mir...@actcom.co.il
<webbfam...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
> "HD" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>
> news:jptvl.28988$cu.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "yp" <y...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:4c39ec24-a100-4fd2...@d19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 15, 6:56 pm, "Peter Webb"
> > <webbfam...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >> "yp" <y...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:21e127d7-c3fd-4e2b...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Mar 15, 11:05 am, johannes <j...@sizef4647478785itter.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Peter Webb wrote:
>
> >> > > "johannes" <j...@sizef33636365itter.com> wrote in message
> >> > >news:49BCE7C2...@sizef33636365itter.com...
>
> >> > > > yp wrote:
>
> >> > > >> Iran's PresidentAhmadinejadmakes excellent points aboutHolocaust.
> >> > > >> This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
> >> > > >> should Palestinians pay for theHolocaustif indeed it happened? Why
> >> > > >> can't people study theHolocaustindependently of Jewish claims,
> >> > > >> using
> >> > > >> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
> >> > > >> world had more such leaders.
>
> >> > > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY&feature=related
>
> >> > > > Not just Jewish claims, but numbers neatly recorded by the Nazis.
> >> > > > Full
> >> > > > facts
> >> > > > were available over 60 years ago, so why suddenly change history?
> >> > > > Modern
> >> > > > technologies are more likely to obfuscate. Old
> >> > > > documents/pictures/films
> >> > > > are
> >> > > > more difficult to forge. Why are you so sure thatAhmadinejad"tells
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > truth"? You weren't there. It doesn't matter what he says; nobody
> >> > > > can
> >> > > > change
> >> > > > history. People can believe in a flat Earth if they want, I don't
> >> > > > care.
>
> >> > > And there are still tens of thousands of eye witnesses left alive.
>
> >> > > That's the strange thing aboutHolocaustdeniers. If they want, they
> >> > > can
> >> > > ask
> >> > > people who were actually there; thousands of them if they want. Are
> >> > > they
> >> > > claiming they are all liars, as are the many more people who have
> >> > > told
> >> > > their
> >> > > story but died since WW2 ?
>
> >> > > Its as plausible as claiming that a nuclear bomb wasn't dropped on
> >> > > Hiroshima
> >> > > in WW2. They have about the same number of eye-witnesses, the same
> >> > > level
> >> > > of
> >> > > physical evidence, the same level of documentary evidence (if you
> >> > > include
> >> > > the Manhattan project as well), and you can still talk to about the
> >> > > same
> >> > > number of people who actually saw it happen.
>
> >> > > Yet nobody denies that an atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima -
> >> > > cranks
> >> > > are
> >> > > so unimaginative.
>
> >> > The deniers possibly aren't really interested in what happened, they
> >> > might
> >> > even
> >> > know the facts. It's more like a game in the kindergarten; one child
> >> > gets
> >> > more
> >> > attention, the other child will say that she's fat or ugly.- Hide
> >> > quoted
> >> > text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> were there. My own father was in a German concentration camp and he
> >> was released only just days before the war ended. To prove it I attach
> >> his release document from which I removed the family name for obvious
> >> reasons. Well, I did ask my father about his long stay in that
> >> concentration camp, and I did receive plenty of answers. But the main
> >> point is that there were various nationalities in that camp, including
> >> Jews, and my father told me that although the conditions were horrible
> >> for all, Jews were not treated differently from other inmates and
> >> certainly were not exterminated because of their nationality. And many
> >> other non-Jewish prisoners of such camps have said the same thing.
> >> That is why a more thorough study of the camps is justified.
>
> >>http://www.yp.zoomshare.com/
>
> >> *****************
> >> I don't think that anybody has denied that other people were also
> >> systematically murdered by the Germans. This is also a well researched
> >> and
> >> well understood part of modern history, even if it is news to you.
>
> > Come on. Anyone who starts researching the Holocaust, other than Jews,
> > is immediately branded an anti-Semite and condemned by the Jewish
> > lobby and the politicians who are scared of it.
>
> That is simply not true. Many Historians have studied the Holocaust over the
> years, and have not been branded anti-Semites - Churchill is an excellent
> example.
>
> > An example of this is
> > the Institute of Historical Review where there are many renowned
> > historians and well educated people questioning the truthfulness of
> > Holocaust allegations.
>
> No, this is not what you claimed. You said "Historians researching the
> Holocaust" were always labelled anti-semites. Now you state that *some*
> people "questioning the *truthfullness* of Holocaust allegations" are
> labelled anti-semites; this because they generally are.
>
> Studying the Holocaust is a completely legitimate historical exercise.
> Denying it happened is not. They are different.
>
>
>
> > There are also many renowned Scientists who believe that the wold is only
> > a few thousand years old.
>
> No.
>
> > Facts don't matter to someone who has a fanatical desire to believe
> > something else.
>
> Like Holocaust deniers, and those people who deny that an atomic bomb was
> ever dropped on Hiroshima.
>
>
>
> >http://www.ihr.org/
>
> > There are a number of other individual historians, writers and so on
> > who have questioned the Holocaust and were immediately demonised by
> > the Jewish lobby.
>
> And many others aren't. The ones who are demonised are those who use
> Holocaust denial as a means of advancing an anti-semtic agenda.
>
> > I have shown to you from personal knowledge (through my father) that
> > Jews were not treated differently from other inmates in German
> > concentration camps, and the only thing you have to say it has all
> > been "well researched and well understood part of modern history".
> > Bullshit.
>
> No, your father says he knew some Jewish people who weren't killed and who
> weren't treated differently. That is not evidence the Holocaust didn't
> occur; its just evidence your father wasn't involved.
>
> Where was he exactly? Bergen Belsen, Auschwitz, Treblinka, Birkenau ..? What
> part of the generally accepted history of the Holocaust does he dispute on
> the basis of his eye-witness experience?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
If that man was in that camp this was not a concentartion camp ,
It was a ARBEITserziehung lager , a facility for re-educating people
who refused to work ,,
mirjam
Tom P
>>>>
>>>> yp wrote:
>>>>> Iran's President Ahmadinejad makes excellent points about Holocaust.
>>>>> This guy tells the truth and I fully agree with what he says. Why
>>>>> can't people study the Holocaust independently of Jewish claims, using
>>>>> modern technologies to determine what really happened? I wish the
>>>>> world had more such leaders.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY&feature=related
>>>> Not just Jewish claims, but numbers neatly recorded by the Nazis. Full
>>>> facts
>>>> were available over 60 years ago, so why suddenly change history? Modern
>>>> technologies are more likely to obfuscate. Old
>>>> documents/pictures/films are
>>>> truth"? You weren't there. It doesn't matter what he says; nobody can
>>>> change
>>>> history. People can believe in a flat Earth if they want, I don't care.
>>> And there are still tens of thousands of eye witnesses left alive.
>>>
>>> they claiming they are all liars, as are the many more people who have
>>> told their story but died since WW2 ?
>>>
>>> Its as plausible as claiming that a nuclear bomb wasn't dropped on
>>> Hiroshima in WW2. They have about the same number of eye-witnesses, the
>>> same level of physical evidence, the same level of documentary evidence
>>> (if you include the Manhattan project as well), and you can still talk
>>> to about the same number of people who actually saw it happen.
>>>
>>> Yet nobody denies that an atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima - cranks
>>> are so unimaginative.
>>>
>> the question: What did the Palestinians do to the Jews? Why are they
>> being punished for the Holocaust?
>>
>> The Palestinian people have received the wrath of Israel for the last 60
>> years. Why?
>>
>> That is the point of this post. If you can't answer the question,
>> deflect or ignore the question. That will be answer enough.
>
> What did the Palestinians do to incur the wrath of Kuwait?
Your redirection of the point of the post has answered my question.
yp
As far as my father was concerned it certainly was a concentration
camp. In fact it may have been worse than a concentration camp because
it was run by Gestapo.
In the above article about the camp it is stated that it was similar
to a concentration camp and that prison conditions were brutal. Most
of the prisoners were non-Germans and there were definitely Jews
amongs them. My father did not remember seeing any German prisoners
there.
mir...@actcom.co.il
>
> In the above article about the camp it is stated that it was similar
> to a concentration camp and that prison conditions were brutal. Most
> of the prisoners were non-Germans and there were definitely Jews
> amongs them. My father did not remember seeing any German prisoners
>
> - Show quoted text -
Even in your [translated] , the text says Prison conditions were
similar to concentration camp ( "camp of the Gestapo").
But there isn`t any mentioning of it being anything but a Re-education
camp ,, it wasn`t a anihilation camp!!!! I am sure your father had a
hard time . But he wasn`t under death threat. If he worked well , and
i read in the document [German] that you provided that he worked
well ..
mirjam
B.H. Cramer
<mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote in message
news:4322c25f-01b7-4dd1...@o11g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
Can you give up with the lies and yid whines, you stupid jew slag?
B.H. Cramer
<mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote in message
news:3040fe14-8eb8-49cb...@y9g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
No camp was an annihilation camp, you stupid jew slag.
RJ11
B.H. Cramer <ben_a...@beltingyids.com> wrote:
> No camp was an annihilation camp,
The Supreme SS and Police Court thought otherwise, doper:
"The accused shall not be punished because of the actions
against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although
the accused should have recognized that the extermination of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
for this purpose, he should be excused for considering himself
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry
himself." -- from the verdict of the Supreme SS and Police Court,
in the case of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943.
Quoted from "The Good Old Days", E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess,
The Free Press, NY, 1988, pages 196-207.
> you stupid jew slag.
Do calm down, doper. Soon, your little brother will arrive
with the new shipment, and everything will be fine.
"my younger Brother got me absolutely stoned on magic mushrooms.
I spent three days sitting in the corner of the tent waiting to come
down." -- the neo-Nazi "Ben Cramer" reflects on his usage of
hallucinatory drugs. Source:
Message-ID: <1125123267.5e5d281ad88798917af26011bcb01dc0@teranews>
There you go. That's a good lad.
RJ.
TallHenry
B.H. Cramer <ben_a...@beltingyids.com> wrote:
> Can you give up with the lies and yid whines, you stupid jew slag?
Can you please realize that your side lost the
war, you stupid nazi donkey?
"Had Hitler won the war, the world would be a much better
place." --Posted by "Ben Cramer", Source: Message-ID
<ILudnfQdX6UCtfva...@giganews.com>.
yp
> On Mar 19, 6:13 am, yp <y...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 18, 3:49 pm, mir...@actcom.co.il wrote:
>
> > > > You have a very good point. My father who was from one of the
> > > > nationalities that you mentioned above was an inmate in a German
> > > > concentration camp. He was released right at the end of the war when
> > > > most if not all of the inmates were released and the camps were
> > > > closed. The Germans exploited the prisoners very badly by hard work
> > > > and insufficient food rations, however, no one was "exterminated"
> > > > finally released, he came back a man with a broken health and he died
>
> - Show quoted text -
In that camp inmates died every day of illness, exhaustion and the
like. The bodies were burned in a huge furnace that was also used for
burning industrial waste. When my father came from this camp he looked
like a skeleton and could barely stand on his feet. The only reason he
survived is because American soldiers came to that sector a few days
later, and an American doctor treated my father and he also received
good food rations. Slowly he regained his strength and to some extent
his health, but he never fully recovered from the stay in that camp.
It would appear that life in the concentration camps were the
Holocaust survivors were held was much softer.
ÇDoügßT
It's sick because even former Wehrmacht and Waffen SS troops have
confirmed the truth of the holocaust -- as well as hundreds of thousands
or maybe millions of Jews who survived. The Nazis even documented the
progress of their Final Solution.
ZuLu
I analyze the testimonies. They are often denounced by technical details which are
technically incoherent or not corresponding with the places.
That is why, before giving an opinion, I need to read the INTEGRAL description of
"gassings" the eyewitness claims to have seen.
On that Groning's narration I don't have the detailed description I need so I can't
have an opinion.
ZuLu
Stop making a fool of yourself.
How did the prisoners go to Zentral Sauna idiot?
http://bp2.blogger.com/_AB36D4g8j4Q/R8GSpDSjaqI/AAAAAAAAAVI/eOZ0ebOThj8/s1600-h/IMG_3072.JPG
http://www.encyclopedie.bseditions.fr/image/article/plan/NAZIPLANBIRK0001.jpg
Aren't Kremas openly visible from the way?
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/image_files/343.02.jpe
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/image_files/342.01.jpe
Is the women's camp BIIb close to Krema II or not?
Is Kanada close to Krema IV or not?
Is the sport's field near Krema III or not?
So, how many thousands of prisoners were able to have a look on the "death factories"
every day?
Go back to school, idiot.
<zulu>
GASSINGS PERFORMED SECRETLY ??? MY ASS !!!
The main LIE from sonderkommandos (revendicated to be among the most valuable
eyewitnesses of the *extermination* by the DOGMA) is that they always claim that the
gassings were performed under the MAXIMUM SECRET and SS even killed them routinely in
order to maintain HIDDEN SUCH BIG SECRET.
BY observing where the 4 *killing factories" were built at Birkenau, anybody can
observe that such assertion is a major shit bounded on the DOGMA's pants.
How can serious historians swallow such ineptness?
Don't they know how to read a plan?
There were THOUSANDS OF INMATES ABLE TO SEE OR EVEN CROSS EVERY DAY THE SUPPOSED
*QUEUES OF 2000-2500 JEWS AT THE DOORS OF THE GAS CHAMBERS*.
The 2 ways to go to Zentral Sauna from the barracks are the same which gives access
to the "killing factories" !!!!!
http://holocaust-info.dk/auschwitz/Auschwitz/map.jpg
THAT IS A FACT !!!
Extract from *ABOUT THE GAS CHAMBERS HOAX* by Zulu
---> Now comes the best. WE have to observe how SS managed the lay out of the
"industrial killing factories" at Birkenau in order to murder thousands of
people SECRETLY. Try to figure out how the SS made their "industrial
installation".
Amazingly, the nazis built at Birkenau, în the middle of the 4 "killing
Krema", the more modern equipment available at that time in order to fight epidemics
including typhus.
THE BIRKENAU "ZENTRAL SAUNA" WITH ITS DISINFECTION AUTOCLAVES AND ITS TOPF
DISINFESTATION OVENS
.../
The Zentral Sauna was the most comprehensive disinfection and disinfestation
installation in KGL Birkenau. Designed after the “sanitary crisis” of August
1942 (typhus epidemic), the first three drawings for it date from November 1942
[Drawings 1, 2 and 3]. Its equipment was to include three disinfection
autoclaves and four Topf disinfestation hot air chambers [Drawing 4].
.../
THE EFFECTS DISINFECTION AND DISINFESTATION OPERATIONS
These operations as carried out at the Zentral Sauna were described in a letter
sent to the Auschwitz Museum by a Czech former prisoner:
(Summary)
The procedures used were:
1. Hot air: Large and heavy effects, such as coats, outer clothing, etc.;
2. Steam: “light” effects, such as underclothes, shirts and any type of
clothing considered as light, for example the “Zebra-Kleider,” prison uniforms.
Blankets were also included in this group
3. Other: Leather objects, such au shoes, belts. etc. were disinfected using
Karbol. Lysol or water containing hydrocyanic acid, a mixture obtained by
pouring Zyklon-B crystals into the water.
This letter mentions that the operations continued 24 hours a day, with three
shifts of prisoners on this task, changing every eight hours.
It will be noted that the methods described by this former prisoner were almost
identical with those used in the US Army at that time [see following page],
...
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm
BUT, NOT ONLY all those prophylactic equipments were installed in the MIDDLE OF
4 KILLING FACTORIES.
It was also there an HOSPITAL, 2 SPORT'S FIELDS and 30 BARRACKS !!!!!
All separated by "transparent fences" made with barbed wires.
Try to imagine the fluxes and moves of all that people going there to be
disinfes-fected while crossing the way of the numerous ones who were "on their
way to be gassed".
Some holoks insist in sustaining that Zentral Sauna NEVER WORKED while others
prefer to silent its existence.
Here, we have the testimony of a French woman sent to Zentral Sauna in July 1943:
"THE FIRST DELOUSING Experienced at Birkenau (Womens Camp)"
Macha RAVINE, 35,334.
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0054.htm
It mustn't be very difficult to gather other testimonies concerning the normal
life at the camps including regular prophylactic measures applied to prisoners.
But, we must observe that Macha RAVINE didn't see ANY QUEUE of JEWS TO BE GASSED
on her way to Zentral Sauna and her return. That is an interesting point in
summer 1943 when the "4 killing factories" were supposed to be working.
ANY PRISONER MENTIONED THAT FACT.
The DOGMA says: Hundreds of thousands jews "disappeared upon arrival" after the
"selection" step and then NOBODY has seen them again, Amen.
ISN'T IT UNBELIEVABLE?
YOu must think I invent all that stuff.
So, observe the lay out of the installations at Birkenau
See the top of the plan
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Images/051-01.jpg
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0051.htm
http://bp2.blogger.com/_AB36D4g8j4Q/R8GSpDSjaqI/AAAAAAAAAVI/eOZ0ebOThj8/s1600-h/IMG_3072.JPG
http://www.encyclopedie.bseditions.fr/image/article/plan/NAZIPLANBIRK0001.jpg
If someone has a better detailed plan I'll take it.
Anyway, we can see the respective position of the Krema II to V - the supposed
"killing factories"- the Zentral sauna and 30 barracks.
Sorry , I missed the link where the sport's fields appear clearly on the drawing
but don't worry, any holok "denies" that it was a sport's field there.
They simply doesn't talk about it.
The sport's fields, a large white area, are located under the nose of the right lower
bomb on that photo, close to the hospital (BIIf)
That's the zone of the label "Hopital des detenus" under K III label of that map
http://www.encyclopedie.bseditions.fr/image/article/plan/NAZIPLANBIRK0001.jpg
Despite the fact that any holoks' site mentions such fields, Faurisson claimed there
were 2 fields, 1 of soccer and 1 of volley-ball.
But that plan above is useful to figure out all those people's moves
between each building, the "normal prisoners" going and returning from Zentral
Sauna or Hospital crossing the files of "to be gassed" ones or the "killing
workers" supposedly hosted in the 30 barracks while a soccer party was played on
that place.
Not only the sonderkommandos were "seeing" the "horror" occurring
there. As consequence, we can assume without any doubt that ALL SONDERKOMMANDOS LIE
when they affirm that the gassings were performed SECRETLY. A single cross
examination based on the lay out of the Kremas and other installations on the same
zone of Birkenau should be enough to demonstrate that point.
Thus, to resume, at that little zone of Birkenau
- There were thousands of normal prisoners sent regularly from main camp to
Zentral Sauna at Birkenau to be disinfest-disinfested (and sent back).
- There were a lot of prisoners sent to the hospital (and sent back).
- There were a lot of prisoners living in the 30 barracks.
- There were a lot of prisoners playing soccer on the sport's field and others
watching.
- There were a lot of civilian workers of sub-contractors operating there who
came back home every day. AT the hospital not less than 60 doctor plus 300 nurses
were working dairy.
All those installations were IN THE MIDDLE OF 4 KILLING FACTORIES
only separated by barbed wires !!!!
So, those people were walking in the middle of "the queues of Jews supposed to
be gassed" according to the lay out of that place.
That what I call the "Zentral Sauna gambit".
Explain how could the SS maintain SECRET their work of EXTERMINATION in the
MIDDLE of ALL THAT WALKING-WATCHING PEOPLE ?????
How can we think that the nazis planned those supposed "industrial killing
factories" to operate them "SECRETLY"?
AND where are the "eyewitnesses testimonies" of those thousands of normal prisoners
survivors or civilian sub-contractors who MUST have seen the "queues of thousands of jews
at the doors of gas chambers".
Or, do you pretend that batches of 2000 people sent there CONTINUOUSLY
couldn't be seen at that place from people passing their time being there?
</zulu>
a-little-sanity
> RJ11 escribi:
>>> There were THOUSANDS OF INMATES ABLE TO SEE OR EVEN CROSS EVERY DAY
>>> THE SUPPOSED *QUEUES OF 2000-2500 JEWS AT THE DOORS OF THE GAS CHAMBERS*.
>> Not really, snivel.
>>
>> http://remember.org/camps/birkenau/
>>
>> Look where the crematoriums are.
> Stop making a fool of yourself.
>
> How did the prisoners go to Zentral Sauna idiot?
What's your point, nazi donkey?
Sure, some inmates saw the crematoriums. Many of them probably
knew about the gassings. Numerous people in Poland knew that the
Nazis were murdering people in the camps. That's why the Jews in
Warsaw rebelled -- they knew they'd be killed, but they also
knew they had nothing to lose.
ZuLu
Nazi camps were not holidays camps and even nazis were concerned about the high
mortality rates of 10% or more registered there.
Himmler ordered Pohl to reduce the rates by reinforcing the sanitary conditions and
rations of food. The rates were lowed to 2-3 % and Himmler expressed his
congratulations to Pohl for such good results.
WE have a part of the correspondence related with that question
REPORT BY POHL TO HIMMLER, 30 SEPTEMBER 1943, ON DEATHS IN THE CONCENTRATION
CAMPS, AND HIMMLER'S ANSWER, 8 OCTOBER 1943
Berlin, 30 September 1943
Secret
Reich Leader
Although in the month of December the mortality rate was still approximately
10 percent, in January 1943 it fell to 8 percent and continued to fall.
This reduction in the mortality rate is due primarily to the fact that the
hygienic measures which have long been demanded have now been carried out, at
least to a larger extent. Furthermore, it has been ordered in the field of
nutrition that one-third of the food, raw and properly chopped, be added shortly
before distribu- [.tion]
[distribu.] tion, to the cooked food. Cooking too long has been avoided.
Supplementary rations of sauerkraut and similar foods have been issued. In
regard to clothing, it has been ordered that the prisoners may keep their coats
on in the winter, insofar as their work permits. Unnecessary prolongation of
roll calls has also been avoided. Permitting prisoners to receive food shipments
individually has had a favorable effect.
The experiments with the distribution of yeast preparation were also
favorable.
The above measures were aided by the fact that selected prisoners were
incorporated in a special cooking course in the training kitchen at Dachau. It
is intended to conduct a new cooking course inmthe near future.
Two tables [charts] are enclosed.
1. Comparison of deaths in the second half of 1942 with the first half of
1943 - this comparisonshows that the over-all average of the second half of 1942
was 9.89 percent while the over-all average of the first half of 1943 was only
5.72 percent.
2. Deaths in the month of August 1943 - since January 1943 the death rate
has fallen steadily, so that in the month of August it was only 2.09 percent.
A graph is also enclosed, illustrating the figures for the Sachsenhausen
concentration camp extremely well. Sachsenhausen contains 26,500 people, 194
cases of death or 0.73 percent. Similar graphs could be obtained for all the camps.
Although when bad weather begins, an increase in the death rate must be
expected, it is nevertheless certain that it will no longer exceed five or six
percent.
In Stutthof also, the death rate for the month of August 1943 fell to 3.45
percent while in the previous month it was still 5.69 percent. Only in the
Lublin concentration camp did the percentage figures rise again to two or three
percent. It is to be expected that when the planned hygienic measures are
carried out the mortality figures here will also no longer differ from those
elsewhere.
Heil Hitler
[Signed] POHL
SS Obergruppenfuehrer
http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/05/NMT05-T0379.htm
----> Himmler answer
Field Command Post, 8 October 1943
[Stamp]
Personal Staff of Reich Leader SS
Document administration
No. Secret 64
The Reich Leader SS
Journal No. 38/133/43g
RF/Bn
Subject: Deaths in concentration camps.
Reference: Your letter of 30 September 1943 -
Ch. /Po/Ha-VS No. 933/43
SECRET
Dear Pohl:
I received your report of 30 September 1943-- concerning death in concentration
camps and can only more express to you and Your co-workers my thanks and my
gratitude for the result achieved. I am convinced that the latest difficulties
will also decrease to the extent when sewerage and better sanitary installations
are possible.
Heil Hitler!
Your
[Signed] H. H.
RJ11
> Nazi camps were not holidays camps
Indeed.
"The accused shall not be punished because of the actions
against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although
the accused should have recognized that the extermination of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
for this purpose, he should be excused for considering himself
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry
himself." -- from the verdict of the Supreme SS and Police Court,
in the case of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943.
Quoted from "The Good Old Days", E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess,
The Free Press, NY, 1988, pages 196-207.
> and even nazis were concerned about the high
> mortality rates of 10% or more registered there.
RJ.
ZuLu
> On Mar 16, 1:02 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article <7fb753c2-82ea-4201-9070-24337ef5a...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,Morbid Fungus <morg...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> That's exactly what we deniers are claiming: that the survivors, the
>>> witnesses who describe mass murder at the German-run concentration
>>> camps, virtually all of them Jews, are all liars---especially those
>> Please document your claim that the witnesses who describe mass murder at
>> the German-run concentration camps were "virtually" all Jews.
>>
>> Explain how you determined that the perpetrators who agreed with the
>> survivors (Jewish and Gentile) were German national Gentiles.
>>
>> I'll wait.
>>
> That's strange . . . I said the survivors were all Jews and you point
> to "perpetrators who agreed with the survivors." Why perpetrators?
> Why not non-Jewish survivors? If you would like to refute my point
> that all the people claiming a Holocaust were Jews, why not point to
> non-Jewish survivors who support the all-Jewish concoction of a
> Holocaust?
>
> Were there no non-Jewish survivors? What happened to those hundreds
> of thousands of Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians, Gypsies, Catholics,
> Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses? What about the Catholic priests
> sent to the camps? Didn't any survive? Didn't even one of them see
> the same Holocaust that all the Jewish survivors saw?
>
> Jews were a minority in all the camps where they were housed. Many
> camps had no Jews at all. If there were almost 4 million surviving
> Jews, there must have been many more millions of non-Jews who
> survived. And they must all have tattoos on their forearms---just
> like those Jewish survivors who show off their terrible tattoos at
> lectures all over the world.
>
> But there aren't any. No non-Jewish inmate at any of the camps saw a
> Holocaust. Just Jews. No non-Jewish survivors appeared as witnesses
> at any of those post-war hanging courts.to testify to gas chambers and
> mass killings Just Jews. No non-Jew survivor bears a tattoo on his or
> her arm. Just Jews. The story goes that the Germans worked hard to
> kill all the Jews in a Holocaust, but all the survivors who saw a
> Holocaust are Jews.
Some non jews returned from the camps and told something but it seems that
testimonies sustaining an "extermination policy" are not taken into account nowadays
certainly because an evident lack of credibility.
Rassinier, who knew Dora and Buchenwald as a French resistant deported, counted such
phenomena on his first revisionist book "Ulysses' lie".
<< On his arrival at Buchenwald, Rassinier met a veteran inmate, a Czech lawyer, who
told him of Buchenwald and other camps, “There is a lot that is true in all that is
said about the horrors for which they are the setting, but there is a lot of
exaggeration, too. You have to reckon with the complex of Ulysses’ lie, which is
everyone’s, and so it is with all the internees. Human beings need to exaggerate the
bad as well as the good and the ugly as well as the beautiful. Everyone hopes and
wants to come out of this business with the halo of a saint, a hero, or a martyr, and
each one embroiders his own Odyssey without realizing that the reality is quite
enough in itself.”
In his book The Holocaust story and the Lies of Ulysses, pp. 90, Rassinier also
writes, “I knew prisoners who never went to take a shower because they were afraid
that gas would come out of the pipes instead of water. And, then, during the weekly
inspection by the nurses of the Block, lice were found on them. Then they had to go
through a disinfection treatment that killed them.” [Because of having to wait around
in a weakened state, in the cold, without clothes on.]>>
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=7603
Unfortunately, "Ulysses' lie" seems to be not available on the net like the French
genuine version "Le mensonge d'Ulysse". It is interesting to see how Rassinier
debunks the testimonies·of his former companions of detention
See "Debunking the Genocide Myth" by Rassinier
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/RassArch/RassArch.html
In 1954 French scholar Germaine Tillion analyzed the "gratuitous lie"
with regard to the German concentration camps. She wrote:
"Those persons [who gratuitously lie] are, to tell the truth, much
more numerous than people generally suppose, and a subject like that
of the concentration camp world -- well designed, alas, to stimulate
sado-masochistic imaginings -- offered them an exceptional field of
action. We have known numerous mentally damaged persons, half
swindlers and half fools, who exploited an imaginary deportation; we
have known others of them -- authentic deportees -- whose sick minds
strove to go even beyond the monstrosities that they had seen or that
people said had happened to them. There have been publishers to print
some of their imaginings, and more or less official compilations to
use them, but publishers and compilers are absolutely inexcusable,
since the most elementary inquiry would have been enough to reveal the
imposture."
"Le Système concentrationnaire allemand [1940-1944]," Revue d'histoire
de la Deuxième Guerre mondiale, July 1954, p. 18, n. 2.
http://www.amazon.fr/dhistoire-deuxieme-guerre-mondiale-1951/dp/B0000DWO36