Sunera Thobani doesn't get it
Maurice
Teddy
and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
ever shit hole she came from.
What disturbs me is the number of morons that bought into what
she said, hook line and sinker like fat stupid cows. To this
point I never believed
that Canadian women were that stupid, but they sat there and
all cheered. ??????? stupid
John Baglow
> I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
> and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
> ever shit hole she came from.
Gee, no racism here. Nope.
--
When do people earn the Per Capita Income? More than one poor starving
soul would like to know. In our countries, numbers live better than people.
How many people prosper in times of prosperity? How many people find their
lives developed by development? --Eduardo Galeano
Probationary V.A.C.H.E. Member
but Thobani did speak a number of self-evident truths in her speech. The
deaths at the WTC were a drop in the bucket compared to the innocents
that have died because of US foreign policy. What I don't like about her
is that she decides to play the racism card when the criticism gets a
little bit too hot for her to handle. That is pathetic.
radio5
"John Baglow" <ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:9qn7gf$epn$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> Teddy (ham...@sympatico.ca) writes:
> > I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
> > and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
> > ever shit hole she came from.
>
>
> Gee, no racism here. Nope.
>
radio5
"Probationary V.A.C.H.E. Member" <jimGgiro...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:3BCF24F2...@hotmail.com...
> You're an idiot. By no means am I a great supporter of feminism per se,
> but Thobani did speak a number of self-evident truths in her speech. The
> deaths at the WTC were a drop in the bucket compared to the innocents
> that have died because of US foreign policy. What I don't like about her
> is that she decides to play the racism card when the criticism gets a
> little bit too hot for her to handle. That is pathetic.
>
When I am stronger than you, I take away your rights, for that is my way.'
> Teddy wrote:
> >
> > I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
> > and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
> > ever shit hole she came from.
> >
> > What disturbs me is the number of morons that bought into what
> > she said, hook line and sinker like fat stupid cows. To this
> > point I never believed
> > that Canadian women were that stupid, but they sat there and
> > all cheered. ??????? stupid
> >
> > > Maurice wrote:
> > >
> > > This is from today's Toronto Star (October 19, 2001)
> > >
> > > Thobani blames racism for speech fallout
> > >
> > > Professor's attack on U.S. foreign policy triggers public
> > > backlash
> > >
> > >
> > > VANCOUVER (CP) - A University of B.C. professor says the
> > > attention, Thobani declared that the U.S. government - not
> > > international terrorism - is the most dangerous global
Omnipitus
> > and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
> > ever shit hole she came from.
>
>
> Gee, no racism here. Nope.
No, actually, there isn't. But, if you are in the same intellectual camp as
Sunera you can probably conjure racism out of any statement.
SunnyJim
wrote:
>Teddy (ham...@sympatico.ca) writes:
>> I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
>> and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
>> ever shit hole she came from.
>
>
>Gee, no racism here. Nope.
Nope. Show the racism in the sentence.
Or is it that anyone who correctly and legally attacks one of your
buddies is a racist?
Don't bother.
SunnyJim
<jimGgiro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You're an idiot. By no means am I a great supporter of feminism per se,
>but Thobani did speak a number of self-evident truths in her speech. The
>deaths at the WTC were a drop in the bucket compared to the innocents
>that have died because of US foreign policy. What I don't like about her
>is that she decides to play the racism card when the criticism gets a
>little bit too hot for her to handle. That is pathetic.
The leftist/racist standard is to poke someone in the eye and then
complain when the stick is taken away.
The News Guy(Mike)
>Teddy (ham...@sympatico.ca) writes:
>> I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
>> and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
>> ever shit hole she came from.
On 18 Oct 2001 18:37:03 GMT, ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Baglow) wrote:
>Gee, no racism here. Nope.
No, I don't think so. I think anyone else, no matter what colour, race,
national origin would have been met with the same public outcry of disgust.
If any other professor(?) had publicly stood up at a federally funded, national
organization and said the same disgusting, insensitive, inflammatory untimely
things they would have been met with similar antagonistic rage.
It is interesting she accuses all her detractors of being racist. Never
thinking that they disagree with WHAT she said not WHO she is.
It is a lot easier that way, isn't it. Just pigeon hole your opponents.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The News Guy(Mike) - Seinfeld Lists
http://www.geocities.com/tnguym
All things Seinfeld; scripts, trivia, lists,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
John Baglow
So telling an immigrant to go back where she came from isn't racist. No,
of course not.
Omnipitus
> >> > and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
> >> > ever shit hole she came from.
> >>
> >>
> >> Gee, no racism here. Nope.
> >
> > No, actually, there isn't. But, if you are in the same intellectual
camp as
> > Sunera you can probably conjure racism out of any statement.
>
>
> So telling an immigrant to go back where she came from isn't racist. No,
> of course not.
( Well, he did not say go back to a country, but go back to the shit hole.
I've been to UBC and understand exactly what he meant.)
You make an incredible statement, John, and one only a racist could think
possible. If I tell a Pakistani to go back to Pakistan am I being racist?
Yes, for all I know he could be born in Toronto to third generation
Torontonians making him arguably more Canadian than I.
But if I tell someone to go back to Pakistan and I KNOW THAT'S WHERE THEY
CAME FROM then I am merely demonstrating knowledge of the person I am
talking to.
By even suggesting that Teddy was making a racist statement suggests that
you see racism everywhere, you're looking for it, hoping to find it so you
can toss out sanctimonious accusations in an attempt to villify those that
disagree with you.
If you are looking for a racist, try the mirror.
JMD
JMD
> So telling an immigrant to go back where she came from isn't racist. No,
> of course not.
Come on John. How is it racist? If Thobani is so unhappy in oppressive
Canada, she is free to leave. One of the places she can go is Tanzania
where she came from. If she was a disgruntled white ex-pat from Ireland, I
would say the same thing. Would you charge racism in that case, if you knew
I was also white?
It seems to me if there is any hint of racism, it lies in the notion that
someone like Thobani should be free to say any outrageous thing she wants
without criticism because she is a "woman of colour".
John Dowell
Teddy
John Baglow wrote:
>
> Teddy (ham...@sympatico.ca) writes:
> > I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
> > and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
> > ever shit hole she came from.
>
> Gee, no racism here. Nope.
>
Nope!
Stupid fucker can't see the forest for the trees.
Teddy
"Probationary V.A.C.H.E. Member" wrote:
>
> You're an idiot. By no means am I a great supporter of feminism per se,
> but Thobani did speak a number of self-evident truths in her speech.
Get on the train or get the fuck out of the way!!! You to
drink the wine and eat the bread of freedom that the US has
gained for you. So fuck you!! Decide if you want to live in
light and freedom or crawl into the shit hole offered by
terrorists. Look at Afghanistan.
> The deaths at the WTC were a drop in the bucket compared to the
Not if it were your sons, daughters and friends!
> innocents that have died because of US foreign policy.
"The innocents" What a hollow term! Which ones are you going
on about, the people Saddam is murdering by depriving them of
medicine and food!
> What I don't like about her
> is that she decides to play the racism card when the criticism gets a
> little bit too hot for her to handle. That is pathetic.
All kinds of pathetic people like that. It's the people that
eat up the shit she spews that scares me.
Teddy
He's just a jerk! That's all. Flapping his gums.
Thanks!!
Teddy
SunnyJim wrote:
>
> On 18 Oct 2001 18:37:03 GMT, ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Baglow)
> wrote:
>
> >Teddy (ham...@sympatico.ca) writes:
> >> I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
> >> and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
> >> ever shit hole she came from.
> >
> >
> >Gee, no racism here. Nope.
>
> Nope. Show the racism in the sentence.
>
> Or is it that anyone who correctly and legally attacks one of your
> buddies is a racist?
>
> Don't bother.
>
He's probably a Liberal and he's trying to side track the
issue of them funding this shit and having a minister in
attendance. Kind of makes me sick.
radio5
"John Baglow" <ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:9qnd20$m31$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> >> > I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
> >> > and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
> >> > ever shit hole she came from.
> >>
> >>
> >> Gee, no racism here. Nope.
> >
> > No, actually, there isn't. But, if you are in the same intellectual
camp as
> > Sunera you can probably conjure racism out of any statement.
>
>
> So telling an immigrant to go back where she came from isn't racist. No,
> of course not.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Free speech works both ways
Ever since the wretched Sunera Thobani displayed her awesome ignorance to a
mob of cheering feminists by blaming U.S. foreign policy for the Sept. 11
attacks, many have tried to portray the outcry against her as an attack on
free speech.
They’re wrong. Unless they believe free speech means the right for them say
what they want, but the rest of us do not have the same rights to disagree
with them.
It’s ironic that Thobani — whose comments were accurately described by B.C.
Premier Gordon Campbell as “hateful and disgraceful” — could be among the
first to gag free speech in her own sphere if somebody had the audacity to
appear at the University of British Columbia and, say, offer an
anti-abortion argument.
Barry McBride, academic vice-president of UBC, said, “I’m not here to judge
on the content of Dr. Thobani’s [speech] but to support her as an academic
and her responsibility to exercise academic freedom and respond. I think it’
s important to realize that the cornerstone of a university is the ability
to speak out on important issues.”
Absolutely. Unfortunately, for years now most universities in this country,
including UBC, have forcefully shut down anybody who dared to say anything
that did not meet with the approval of the official sisterhood and their
fellow ideological zealots.
But apart from that irony, the only issue in the Thobani case is her
appalling sense of history and good taste. She did enjoy her free speech, at
public expense no less. Nothing happened to her. She didn’t get fired or
thrown in jail. She simply got criticized by people who didn’t like what she
said.
Thobani claims “there will be no emancipation for women anywhere on this
planet until the Western domination of this planet is ended.” Really? The
fact is, outside of the West, where does Thobani think that she could
possibly have the right to stand on a public platform, using public funds,
and make the kind of outrageous comments she made? Does she think she could
make a similar speech say in Kabul or at Tiananmen Square? How about
downtown Baghdad?
It frightens me to think that this woman is inculcating such outrageous
ideology into the minds of her students.
But Thobani’s speech isn’t the only thing which has raised the bogeyman of
free speech. In his Sunday Star column on Oct. 7, Haroon Siddiqui wrote that
“Walter Cronkite, Susan Sontag and others have spoken out against isolated
instances of censorship, such as ads being yanked from the TV program
Politically Incorrect and columnists being fired from two two-bit
newspapers.”
And the Saturday Globe and Mail ran a huge feature piece entitled, “The war
on dissent,” citing the same few instances and quoting author Susan Sontag
lamenting about the possibility of this being “a new age in which,
essentially, freedom of speech is only something we afford in prosperous and
calm times.” As well as film director and satirist Michael Moore complaining
that he hadn’t been asked to appear on the various television newscasts
“Because I’m going to go on there and say the things they don’t want to
hear.” Poor boy.
Much has been made of Bill Maher’s controversial comments that “We have been
the cowards. Lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away, that’s cowardly.
Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about
it, that’s not cowardly.”
The Globe piece, by Simon Houpt, huffed that even presidential spokesman Ari
Fleisher chastised Maher “from the bully pulpit of the White House briefing
room.”
Why is this so terrible? Just as Maher is allowed to make his remarks,
surely Fleisher is allowed to disagree. Isn’t that what free speech means?
As for the “censorship” Siddiqui writes about, there wasn’t any. Maher’s
comments were aired. He’s still working there. True, a couple of corporate
sponsors withdrew their ads, but again, they’re entitled to do that. How
often have left-wingers who decry it in this case used an advertising
boycott against right-wing viewpoints with which they disagree?
The Toronto Star has been awash with columnists who certainly are not taking
what is dismissed as the “party line” on the conflict. Fair enough. But it’s
equally fair for people to dump on them for it and take the so-called “party
line” for the simple reason that — wait for it — they believe it.
The encouraging thing about all of this is that despite the overheated
nature of the war on terrorism, there has not been a clampdown on dissent at
all.
If people want to dissent they’re welcome to do so. But they also have to
accept the fact that they’ll be criticized for it. So what?
There are many places on earth that it simply wouldn’t be allowed. We do
have free speech, but it works both ways.
Enjoy it.
John Baglow
I have never argued any such thing! In fact, I've taken my lumps in other
fora for being *too hard* on Thobani!
I have no problem with criticism per se. But am I not free to criticize
the critics? And here, in a nutshell, is my criticism:
1) If I take the position on "root causes" that I have, here or anywhere
else, no one has yet linked that position to a) my gender b) my race c) my
country of origin d) my associations. Cetainly those in the Sheldon Scott
school of debating have called me a moron, an asshole, etc., etc., but
those who have dealt with substance have answered in kind. Ideas have been
the focus, even here.
2) When it comes to Sunera Thobani, her gender, race, country of origin,
and past associations have been raised, not merely incidentally, but as
the focus of discussion.
See the difference? And I have a right to comment on that difference, I
would think, without being called names.
[Well, maybe no such "right" exists. :)]
John Baglow
> He's probably a Liberal and he's trying to side track the
> issue of them funding this shit and having a minister in
> attendance. Kind of makes me sick.
A *Liberal*? Now, that kind of makes *me* sick.
Maynard
If a white woman named, say, Jennifer Stevens (just randomly picking
Anglo/"white" names), made the same remarks, do you think we would hear "go
back to where you came from"?
That said, while Thobani made some very valid points originally, she's gone
a little far in playing the race/gender card so much.
r
"JMD" <jdowe...@home.com> wrote in message
news:opHz7.287132$j65.74...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
John Baglow
Nice series of evasions. I will look at ideas and opinions, not the ethnic
origin of the speaker. But you and others find the latter of tremendous
importance. I wonder why?
> If you are looking for a racist, try the mirror.
I've found several, by staring at a monitor.
Honest John
wrote:
>Teddy (ham...@sympatico.ca) writes:
>> I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
>> and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
>> ever shit hole she came from.
>
>
>Gee, no racism here. Nope.
You are delusional. there was no reference ot race in the post. The
attacks on the "lilly white" feminazi and Thobani apologizer Rebbick
have been just as strong. Thobani was attacked because of her idiotic
attack on America as the cause of all bad things around the world.
Honest John
wrote:
>"Omnipitus" (h...@she.com) writes:
>>> > I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
>>> > and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
>>> > ever shit hole she came from.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gee, no racism here. Nope.
>>
>> No, actually, there isn't. But, if you are in the same intellectual camp as
>> Sunera you can probably conjure racism out of any statement.
>
>
>So telling an immigrant to go back where she came from isn't racist. No,
>of course not.
Of course not, she clearly hates nearly everything about North America
and she should of course consider going back to the thrid world where
she would no doubt be much less bitter.
John Baglow
> Quick question.
>
> If a white woman named, say, Jennifer Stevens (just randomly picking
> Anglo/"white" names), made the same remarks, do you think we would hear "go
> back to where you came from"?
Obviously not. But the usual suspects *would* continue to call her a
bitch, a twat, a slut, etc. And then they'd get all upset if you called
them sexist.
SunnyJim
Baglow is a Marxist NDP.
SunnyJim
wrote:
>"Omnipitus" (h...@she.com) writes:
>>> > I don't mind Thobani so much, as people now have her number
>>> > and all that's left for her to do is to crawl back to what
>>> > ever shit hole she came from.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gee, no racism here. Nope.
>>
>> No, actually, there isn't. But, if you are in the same intellectual camp as
>> Sunera you can probably conjure racism out of any statement.
>
>
>So telling an immigrant to go back where she came from isn't racist. No,
>of course not.
The shit hole that this jerk crawled from could be the sociology
department at UBC. You of course, being the sensitive type, can only
read it as something else. Like Tanzania is such a swell place.
The air is pretty thin up their atop Mt Moral Superiority.
Honest John
<jimGgiro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You're an idiot. By no means am I a great supporter of feminism per se,
>but Thobani did speak a number of self-evident truths in her speech. The
>deaths at the WTC were a drop in the bucket compared to the innocents
>that have died because of US foreign policy.
Yes. lots of innocent Germans and Japanese died in WW II. Of course
their goverments were in no way responsible, it was all the fault of
those big bad Americans. (Heavy sarcasm intended.)
>What I don't like about her
>is that she decides to play the racism card when the criticism gets a
>little bit too hot for her to handle. That is pathetic.
That I agree with.
Omnipitus
> > ( Well, he did not say go back to a country, but go back to the shit
hole.
> > I've been to UBC and understand exactly what he meant.)
> >
> > You make an incredible statement, John, and one only a racist could
think
> > possible. If I tell a Pakistani to go back to Pakistan am I being
racist?
> > Yes, for all I know he could be born in Toronto to third generation
> > Torontonians making him arguably more Canadian than I.
> >
> > But if I tell someone to go back to Pakistan and I KNOW THAT'S WHERE
THEY
> > CAME FROM then I am merely demonstrating knowledge of the person I am
> > talking to.
> >
> > By even suggesting that Teddy was making a racist statement suggests
that
> > you see racism everywhere, you're looking for it, hoping to find it so
you
> > can toss out sanctimonious accusations in an attempt to villify those
that
> > disagree with you.
>
>
>
> Nice series of evasions.
?? This makes no sense. What have I evaded?
I will look at ideas and opinions, not the ethnic
> origin of the speaker. But you and others find the latter of tremendous
> importance. I wonder why?
I defy you to find a post of mine that even mentions her race. I don't give
a shit about the color of her skin, her country of origin, or her field of
study. Its her brain she is being challenged on, not (as she and obviously
yourself wish) her skin color.
John Baglow
NDP my ass, Clay.
John Baglow
>> I will look at ideas and opinions, not the ethnic
>> origin of the speaker. But you and others find the latter of tremendous
>> importance. I wonder why?
>
> I defy you to find a post of mine that even mentions her race. I don't give
> a shit about the color of her skin, her country of origin, or her field of
> study. Its her brain she is being challenged on, not (as she and obviously
> yourself wish) her skin color.
You don't say. Then why would you defend a statement that tells her to go
back where she comes from, and then get all cute and claim that this means
"UBC"? Pull the other one.
Stephen H. Kawamoto
Overgrow the State!
White hat hackers: keeping the worldwide web secure...
PGP key fingerprint: 7F49 566F DB34 DC11 5BEA 0BC3 C47A A982 8C65 6D0E
SunnyJim
wrote:
Call me Larry.
Ok, you are an ass, not NDP.
John Baglow
> On 18 Oct 2001 23:04:34 GMT, ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Baglow)
> wrote:
>
> Call me Larry.
You are Clay Acheson. Treat me nice or I'll post more details. :)
Honest John
wrote:
>"Maynard" (som...@somewhere.com) writes:
>> Quick question.
>>
>> If a white woman named, say, Jennifer Stevens (just randomly picking
>> Anglo/"white" names), made the same remarks, do you think we would hear "go
>> back to where you came from"?
Yep, I wish Rebick, the other infamouse feminazi, would go back to
where she came from.
>
>Obviously not. But the usual suspects *would* continue to call her a
>bitch, a twat, a slut, etc. And then they'd get all upset if you called
>them sexist.
Well she did get knocked up without having married the (un)lucky guy
so that would mark her as a slut in most eyes. Her Taliban friends
would probably have her stoned to death for something like that.
John Baglow
> On 18 Oct 2001 22:38:25 GMT, ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Baglow)
> wrote:
>
>>"Maynard" (som...@somewhere.com) writes:
>>> Quick question.
>>>
>>> If a white woman named, say, Jennifer Stevens (just randomly picking
>>> Anglo/"white" names), made the same remarks, do you think we would hear "go
>>> back to where you came from"?
>
> Yep, I wish Rebick, the other infamouse feminazi, would go back to
> where she came from.
Now you're called on it, sure. Right. I'm convinced. Not.
>
>>
>>Obviously not. But the usual suspects *would* continue to call her a
>>bitch, a twat, a slut, etc. And then they'd get all upset if you called
>>them sexist.
>
> Well she did get knocked up without having married the (un)lucky guy
> so that would mark her as a slut in most eyes.
No, only in yours, sicko.
Goldhammer
> If a white woman named, say, Jennifer Stevens (just randomly picking
> Anglo/"white" names), made the same remarks, do you think we would hear
> "go back to where you came from"?
If she was from Tanzania, sure.
JMD
>
> I have never argued any such thing! In fact, I've taken my lumps in other
> fora for being *too hard* on Thobani!
>
> I have no problem with criticism per se. But am I not free to criticize
> the critics? And here, in a nutshell, is my criticism:
>
> 1) If I take the position on "root causes" that I have, here or anywhere
> else, no one has yet linked that position to a) my gender b) my race c) my
> country of origin d) my associations. Cetainly those in the Sheldon Scott
> school of debating have called me a moron, an asshole, etc., etc., but
> those who have dealt with substance have answered in kind. Ideas have been
> the focus, even here.
>
> 2) When it comes to Sunera Thobani, her gender, race, country of origin,
> and past associations have been raised, not merely incidentally, but as
> the focus of discussion.
>
> See the difference? And I have a right to comment on that difference, I
> would think, without being called names.
>
> [Well, maybe no such "right" exists. :)]
Thobani herself, throughout her career in the public spotlight, has made an
issue of race. She oriented NAC to serving "women of colour", portraying
them as an oppressed group in Canada. Who were the oppressors, us white
guys, natch. Thobani just can't trot out racism to make her points and put
down opponents to her views then feign shock when others pick up on that
theme. Playing the race card marks her as a scoundrel.
John Dowell
JMD
news:ppIz7.12561$Og4.1...@news0.telusplanet.net...
> Quick question.
>
> If a white woman named, say, Jennifer Stevens (just randomly picking
> Anglo/"white" names), made the same remarks, do you think we would hear
"go
> back to where you came from"?
>
> That said, while Thobani made some very valid points originally, she's
gone
> a little far in playing the race/gender card so much.
The point is Thobani came to this country voluntarily. She has done pretty
darn well in this society by anyone's standards, even if she has built her
career on knocking it. So, when she vilifies the very society and values
that have helped her succeed, it is fair to suggest that if things are so
horrible for her here, she should go someplace else. She is just as free to
leave as she was to arrive. One of the places she can go to is her country
of origin. There is nothing racist about that thought. It could be said of
any disgruntled immigrant.
Maybe we just get a little tired of people who bitch and moan about how
awful we are while taking full advantage of all that this country has to
offer.
John Dowell
JMD
is why it is so precious.
Obviously Thobani and her ilk are uncomfortable with that notion because she
played the race card in an effort to squelch free speech. It is the same
tactic used to suppress discussion of our immigration and refugee laws by
various people including Caplan, our incompetent immigration minister.
John Dowell
nkennedy
leave as she was to arrive. One of the places she can go to is her
country
And since Canada's freedom of speech laws are such a torment for you.
you also are free to leave. You can return to whatever country was lucky
enough to rid itself of your gene pool a few years back. Or are you a
fascist?
Neil K
Omnipitus
> >> origin of the speaker. But you and others find the latter of
tremendous
> >> importance. I wonder why?
> >
> > I defy you to find a post of mine that even mentions her race. I don't
give
> > a shit about the color of her skin, her country of origin, or her field
of
> > study. Its her brain she is being challenged on, not (as she and
obviously
> > yourself wish) her skin color.
>
>
> You don't say. Then why would you defend a statement that tells her to go
> back where she comes from, and then get all cute and claim that this means
> "UBC"? Pull the other one.
Well, actually, I can't help but be cute.;)
And I didn't claim this meant UBC, that was a joke, if you didn't get it
that ain't my problem. And I didn't defend any statement, I challenged your
notion it was racist.
A challenge you continue to evade. You see racism where it does not exist.
That is now proven.
John Baglow
Only in your mind. Telling Thobani to "go back to the shit hole she came
from" is racist. You can equivocate all you want, but that inconvenient
fact remains.
JMD
news:3BD030B2...@seascape.ns.ca...
>
> And since Canada's freedom of speech laws are such a torment for you.
> you also are free to leave. You can return to whatever country was lucky
> enough to rid itself of your gene pool a few years back. Or are you a
> fascist?
Show me where I have said that Thobani should be denied free speech. I have
objected to the fact that the forum Thobani used most recently was provided
by taxpayers but that is not a denial of her right to state her views. I
just don't believe we should have to pay for it. Let those who want to hear
her and support her foot the bill.
You are not only a pathetic, scurrilous name-caller, you deliberately
misrepresent the views of others in order to bolster your own feeble
arguments.
John Dowell
dogbreath
The moron is not being criticized for what she is
but what she said. Now about you. I don't care
what race you are. All I care about is that you say
really stupid things, making it appear, probably
correctly, that you are a fool.
In article <SqJz7.96442$ob.21...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>, "Stephen says...
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C157F0.B5E90780
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>It is sexist and racist, if the abuse is couched in derogatory terms =
>about her gender and race, which I do not doubt it was.
>
>People criticized the novelist who compared oil companies to terrorists, =
>and also the other dissenters -- in fact, the US government is clamping =
>down on dissent.
>
>This goes to show we only got rid of Nazism, not the corpocratic fascism =
>rife globally!
>--
>Overgrow the State!
>White hat hackers: keeping the worldwide web secure...
>PGP key fingerprint: 7F49 566F DB34 DC11 5BEA 0BC3 C47A A982 8C65 6D0E
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C157F0.B5E90780
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><STYLE></STYLE>
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><DIV><FONT size=3D2>It is sexist and racist, if the abuse is couched in =
>derogatory=20
>terms about her gender and race, which I do not doubt it =
>was.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2>People criticized the novelist who compared =
>oil companies=20
>to terrorists, and also the other dissenters -- in fact, the US =
>government is=20
>clamping down on dissent.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2>This goes to show we only got rid of Nazism, not the =
>
>corpocratic fascism rife globally!</FONT></DIV>
><DIV>--<BR>Overgrow the State!<BR>White hat hackers: keeping the =
>worldwide web=20
>secure...<BR>PGP key fingerprint: 7F49 566F DB34 DC11 5BEA 0BC3 =
>C47A A982=20
>8C65 6D0E<FONT face=3DArial></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C157F0.B5E90780--
>
Maynard
provided for by taxpayers that she should go back to where she came from? If
she expressed the same views via the public sector, she should not have to
go back where she came from? What does funding have to do with it? She
either has free speech or she doesn't. You're free to disagree, but the
"love it or leave it" mentality is intellectually dishonest. Whether born
here or an immigrant, as long as you are a citizen you have every right to
push for change. If you don't like that, perhaps *you* should go somewhere
else.
"JMD" <jdowe...@home.com> wrote in message
news:HSWz7.292970$j65.76...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
nkennedy
misrepresent the views of others in order to bolster your own feeble
You gutlessly "cut" your offensive statement, which I throw back to
you.
If you don't like our great counntry go to fuck somewhere else. There
are many fascist states where you would fit in.
Or do you think that your dictum "if you don't like it leave" only
applies to those who immigrated to this country recently?
In case your Alzimers is acting up today:
John Baglow
> How very odd. So, it's only because she expressed her views at an event
> provided for by taxpayers that she should go back to where she came from? If
> she expressed the same views via the public sector, she should not have to
> go back where she came from? What does funding have to do with it? She
> either has free speech or she doesn't. You're free to disagree, but the
> "love it or leave it" mentality is intellectually dishonest. Whether born
> here or an immigrant, as long as you are a citizen you have every right to
> push for change. If you don't like that, perhaps *you* should go somewhere
> else.
You're right. These people are calling, loud and clear, for a double
standard. They should be allowed to say any offensive thing that they
wish--and do, right in this forum. But heaven help an immigrant saying
things *they* find offensive. Why, that ungrateful [sexist epithet here]
should go back to the shit hole she comes from.
JMD
> You gutlessly "cut" your offensive statement, which I throw back to
> you.
> If you don't like our great counntry go to fuck somewhere else. There
> are many fascist states where you would fit in.
> Or do you think that your dictum "if you don't like it leave" only
> applies to those who immigrated to this country recently?
>
Show me where I have said I don't like this country. I may disagree with
the government and its policies but that doesn't translate into a dislike of
the country. The country is far more than the government in power. Thobani
has roundly condemned this country and the rest of the free world. She came
her freely, she can leave freely, if it is so horrible. That is not a racist
statement. It would apply to any disgruntled immigrant. I was born here so
there is no where else to go back to. Anything else I can clarify for you,
you cheap-shot name caller?
John Dowell
The News Guy(Mike)
>"Maynard" (som...@somewhere.com) writes:
>> How very odd. So, it's only because she expressed her views at an event
>> provided for by taxpayers that she should go back to where she came from?
*I* never said "go back to..." I said what she said was offensive, untimely,
insensitive. And yes, If our tax dollars are being spent to have her say things
that the vast majority of Canadians disagree with we should also be outspoken in
our condemnation of her views.
Had she said these hateful things a year ago - no front pages for her - no news
clips, no publicity. But a few days after 5000 innocent people are murdered
does not do it for me!
CHEAP opportunist!!!
You keep turning this into a simple "racist" arguement. Lets stick to what she
said, not who SHE is.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The News Guy(Mike) - Seinfeld Lists
http://www.geocities.com/tnguym
All things Seinfeld; scripts, trivia, lists,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
nkennedy
there is no where else to go back to. Anything else I can clarify for
you,
Just as I suggested. You see classes of citizens, based on the length of
time people lived in the country.
Now tell me is an eighty year old who came here sixty years ago
less Canadian than a child born here last week.
Just how do you classify the purity of citizenship? Is it the raw
number of years spent in the country or is it a ratio of years in Canada
and years outside Canada.
My people came to Canada in 1760, I am entitled to tell you to fuck
off.
I AM telling you to fuck off with your hate and inconsistency.
radio5
"The News Guy(Mike)" <tnguym...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3bd04463...@news.sprint.ca...
> On 19 Oct 2001 15:14:22 GMT, ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Baglow)
wrote:
>
> >"Maynard" (som...@somewhere.com) writes:
> >> How very odd. So, it's only because she expressed her views at an event
> >> provided for by taxpayers that she should go back to where she came
from?
>
> *I* never said "go back to..." I said what she said was offensive,
untimely,
> insensitive. And yes, If our tax dollars are being spent to have her say
things
> that the vast majority of Canadians disagree with we should also be
outspoken in
> our condemnation of her views.
>
> Had she said these hateful things a year ago - no front pages for her - no
news
> clips, no publicity. But a few days after 5000 innocent people are
murdered
> does not do it for me!
>
> CHEAP opportunist!!!
>
> You keep turning this into a simple "racist" arguement. Lets stick to
what she
> said, not who SHE is.
>
>
To wit:
Free speech works both ways
Ever since the wretched Sunera Thobani displayed her awesome ignorance to a
mob of cheering feminists by blaming U.S. foreign policy for the Sept. 11
attacks, many have tried to portray the outcry against her as an attack on
free speech.
They’re wrong. Unless they believe free speech means the right for them say
what they want, but the rest of us do not have the same rights to disagree
with them.
It’s ironic that Thobani — whose comments were accurately described by B.C.
Premier Gordon Campbell as “hateful and disgraceful” — could be among the
first to gag free speech in her own sphere if somebody had the audacity to
appear at the University of British Columbia and, say, offer an
anti-abortion argument.
Barry McBride, academic vice-president of UBC, said, “I’m not here to judge
on the content of Dr. Thobani’s [speech] but to support her as an academic
and her responsibility to exercise academic freedom and respond. I think it’
s important to realize that the cornerstone of a university is the ability
to speak out on important issues.”
Absolutely. Unfortunately, for years now most universities in this country,
including UBC, have forcefully shut down anybody who dared to say anything
that did not meet with the approval of the official sisterhood and their
fellow ideological zealots.
But apart from that irony, the only issue in the Thobani case is her
appalling sense of history and good taste. She did enjoy her free speech, at
public expense no less. Nothing happened to her. She didn’t get fired or
thrown in jail. She simply got criticized by people who didn’t like what she
said.
Thobani claims “there will be no emancipation for women anywhere on this
planet until the Western domination of this planet is ended.” Really? The
fact is, outside of the West, where does Thobani think that she could
possibly have the right to stand on a public platform, using public funds,
and make the kind of outrageous comments she made? Does she think she could
make a similar speech say in Kabul or at Tiananmen Square? How about
downtown Baghdad?
It frightens me to think that this woman is inculcating such outrageous
ideology into the minds of her students.
But Thobani’s speech isn’t the only thing which has raised the bogeyman of
free speech. In his Sunday Star column on Oct. 7, Haroon Siddiqui wrote that
“Walter Cronkite, Susan Sontag and others have spoken out against isolated
instances of censorship, such as ads being yanked from the TV program
Politically Incorrect and columnists being fired from two two-bit
newspapers.”
And the Saturday Globe and Mail ran a huge feature piece entitled, “The war
on dissent,” citing the same few instances and quoting author Susan Sontag
lamenting about the possibility of this being “a new age in which,
essentially, freedom of speech is only something we afford in prosperous and
calm times.” As well as film director and satirist Michael Moore complaining
that he hadn’t been asked to appear on the various television newscasts
“Because I’m going to go on there and say the things they don’t want to
hear.” Poor boy.
Much has been made of Bill Maher’s controversial comments that “We have been
the cowards. Lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away, that’s cowardly.
Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about
it, that’s not cowardly.”
The Globe piece, by Simon Houpt, huffed that even presidential spokesman Ari
Fleisher chastised Maher “from the bully pulpit of the White House briefing
room.”
Why is this so terrible? Just as Maher is allowed to make his remarks,
surely Fleisher is allowed to disagree. Isn’t that what free speech means?
As for the “censorship” Siddiqui writes about, there wasn’t any. Maher’s
comments were aired. He’s still working there. True, a couple of corporate
sponsors withdrew their ads, but again, they’re entitled to do that. How
often have left-wingers who decry it in this case used an advertising
boycott against right-wing viewpoints with which they disagree?
The Toronto Star has been awash with columnists who certainly are not taking
what is dismissed as the “party line” on the conflict. Fair enough. But it’s
equally fair for people to dump on them for it and take the so-called “party
line” for the simple reason that — wait for it — they believe it.
The encouraging thing about all of this is that despite the overheated
nature of the war on terrorism, there has not been a clampdown on dissent at
all.
If people want to dissent they’re welcome to do so. But they also have to
accept the fact that they’ll be criticized for it. So what?
There are many places on earth that it simply wouldn’t be allowed. We do
have free speech, but it works both ways.
Enjoy it.
JMD
> How very odd. So, it's only because she expressed her views at an event
> provided for by taxpayers that she should go back to where she came from?
If
> she expressed the same views via the public sector, she should not have to
> go back where she came from? What does funding have to do with it? She
> either has free speech or she doesn't. You're free to disagree, but the
> "love it or leave it" mentality is intellectually dishonest. Whether born
> here or an immigrant, as long as you are a citizen you have every right to
> push for change. If you don't like that, perhaps *you* should go somewhere
> else.
>
Not so odd at all. Why should taxpayers fund such a forum? Do you think
that anyone who has an axe to grind or view to state should have the
taxpayers pay to rent a hall for them or have access to public airwaves via
government subsidy? I believe government has no business funding special
interest groups. Let members and supporters fund them. It has nothing to
do with free speech. It is about being forced to subsidize the views of
certain types of free speech.
Thobani can say whatever the hell she wants. She went beyond advocating
change. She condemned this society and what it stands for. Under those
circumstances it is entirely fair for others to exercise their right to free
speech and suggest that she consider going someplace less horrible for her.
I was not the one who suggested she go back to where she came from but it is
a legitimate question. (Afterall, why would anyone want to live in a place
they abhor when they are free to leave?) I objected to characterization of
this suggestion as racist.
John Dowell
JMD
>
> Just as I suggested. You see classes of citizens, based on the length of
> time people lived in the country.
> Now tell me is an eighty year old who came here sixty years ago
> less Canadian than a child born here last week.
> Just how do you classify the purity of citizenship? Is it the raw
> number of years spent in the country or is it a ratio of years in Canada
> and years outside Canada.
> My people came to Canada in 1760, I am entitled to tell you to fuck
> off.
> I AM telling you to fuck off with your hate and inconsistency.
Where did I say I see classes of citizens based on length of residency?
Those are your words, not mine. You suggested I go back to some where. I
said there was no "back somewhere" for me because I was born here. Tell us
about the mental process that warps that statement into what you claim it
says. A tour of your mind would be interesting, name caller -- sort of like
a midway house of horrors complete with distortion mirrors.
John Dowell
RGB
> SunnyJim (su...@wiggly.com) writes:
> > On 18 Oct 2001 23:04:34 GMT, ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Baglow)
> > wrote:
> >
> > Call me Larry.
>
>
> You are Clay Acheson. Treat me nice or I'll post more details. :)
>
Is that your pathetic attempt at intimidation or suppression of contra
opinion? Interesting but predictable hypocracy.
At the heart of every leftwing wacko lies the ultimate destination.... the
totalitarian:
'When I am weaker than you, I ask you for my rights, for that is your way.
'When I am stronger than you, I take away your rights, for that is my way.'
E. Barry Bruyea
That has become his standardized method of posting as of late.
Desperation, I guess, after having run out of anything contructive or
intelligent to say. He prefers to make it up as he goes along by
'seeing' things that just aren't there. Pointing it out to him is
just a waste of time. He's done it to you, to me and half a dozen
other posters. Maybe its time we just start ignoring him. There was a
time when his posts held some interest and even the occassional fact,
but in past months he must have suffered some earth-shattering
disapointment to drive him to his repetitive drivel.
>
>
>
king arthur
"dogbreath" <dogbreat...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:9qpd3...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Stephen, you are so full of shit, your eyes are brown.
That maybe
> The moron is not being criticized for what she is
> but what she said.
True, but it goes deeper then just her speech, she is a feminazi who
promote's terror on selected groups (men).
Now about you. I don't care
> what race you are. All I care about is that you say
> really stupid things, making it appear, probably
> correctly, that you are a fool.
LOL
Paul Barnes
Ummm... No that is not a racist statement. Its a claim that she came from
somewhere considerably worse than here.
If she were from 1965 Hungary, if she were from 1945 Germany, if she were
from 1970 Poland, if she were from 1980 South Africa, if she were
from................ the list of comparitive shit holes goes on, and on, and
they are not all non-European type countries, so give it up. She happens to
be from a shit hole, thats not racist, its the truth, and if she doesnt like
it here there are lots of places where she can be truly oppressed, but this
country isnt one of them.
So take your "thats racist because you dissagree with the feminazi bitch"
comments, and try a little truth rather than simply spouting the tired old
retoric.
--
If you want to see the arrogance of Americans, just listen to them talk.
If you want world peace, just shut them up.
Goldhammer
> Telling Thobani to "go back to the shit hole she came from" is racist.
No it isn't. The left tries very hard to portray
every issue as a racial issue. Failing that, they
try to make it a gender or class issue. This principle
of propaganda construction is the principle by which
socialists derive all their reasoning and rhetoric.
Everyone can see that your comments are more of the
same (everyone who isn't a socialist stooge).
John Baglow
harder. Nice to see you lot backpedalling so quickly, though.
John Baglow
>> Only in your mind. Telling Thobani to "go back to the shit hole she came
>> from" is racist. You can equivocate all you want, but that inconvenient
>> fact remains.
>
> Ummm... No that is not a racist statement. Its a claim that she came from
> somewhere considerably worse than here.
It`s a statement that says that she should shut up unlike people born
here; that she has no right to complain because she comes from somewhere
else. But keep backpedalling--watching you lot twist in the wind to defend
your miserable attitudes is almost a joy after a long week.
> So take your "thats racist because you dissagree with the feminazi bitch"
> comments, and try a little truth rather than simply spouting the tired old
> retoric.
That`s `rhetoric.` And the comment in quotes is not mine--it`s you lot
that delights in using words like `bitch`and `feminazi`when you can`t deal
with ideas.
Honest John
wrote:
>How very odd. So, it's only because she expressed her views at an event
>provided for by taxpayers that she should go back to where she came from? If
>she expressed the same views via the public sector, she should not have to
>go back where she came from? What does funding have to do with it? She
>either has free speech or she doesn't. You're free to disagree, but the
>"love it or leave it" mentality is intellectually dishonest. Whether born
>here or an immigrant, as long as you are a citizen you have every right to
>push for change. If you don't like that, perhaps *you* should go somewhere
>else.
She should go back where she came from ****because**** she clearly
hates the west and westerners who are in her mind the source of all
evil. Why she would choose to go on living among such terrible people
is a mystery unless she does so because of the easy money.
Stephen H. Kawamoto
--
Overgrow the State!
White hat hackers: keeping the worldwide web secure...
PGP key fingerprint: 7F49 566F DB34 DC11 5BEA 0BC3 C47A A982 8C65 6D0E
--
"dogbreath" <dogbreat...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:9qpd3...@drn.newsguy.com...
dogbreath
>
>Not one iota.
And in your mind this constitutes proof?
Hartmann Schaffer
ne possible explanation: despite its flaws she finds western
societies less inhospitable (despite members like you) than
alternatives and is trying to make them even better
hs
--
Apart from the obvious disagreement about who the good guys are, what
is the difference between "You are either with us or against us" and
"There are only good muslim and infidels"?
Valentine Michael Smith
Given she is so found of critiquing both the US *as a people* and of
critiquing "western male values" it seems she is an example of racism
and sexism herself.
Even if she lacks logic and compassion she does have some smarts and I
can see why she wants to avoid open discussion - to deflect any
possible critique of herself with blanket innuendo on her opponents.
Her ideas cannot stand scrutiny. Problem is that some of her opponents
do fall in this sexist and racist category - and all she needs is one
or two - even if this is out of millions - to be able to disregard
everything in the content of what is being said by the others - to go
back into he closed little world of government financed bullshit.
**********************
n' keep it in yur mind and not ferget
that it is not he or she or them or it
that you belong to
Robert Zimmerman
.......
For information in libertarians in Ontario www.libertarian.on.ca
December 2nd www.walkforcapitalism.org
**************************
Humble Wisdom
> news:3BD030B2...@seascape.ns.ca...
> >
> > And since Canada's freedom of speech laws are such a torment for
you.
> > you also are free to leave. You can return to whatever country was
lucky
> > enough to rid itself of your gene pool a few years back. Or are
you a
> > fascist?
> ================
> Show me where I have said that Thobani should be denied free speech.
I have
> objected to the fact that the forum
Why on Earth are you trying to discuss something with the
Kennedy `bot? You'd have more luck persuading Carrick,
a far more thoughtful and moderate poster.
Humble Wisdom
event
> provided for by taxpayers that she should go back to where she came
Thobani came from a sewer where women are treated as beasts of burden,
with virtually no rights, and where racism against people like her,
who are
ethnic Asians, is absolutely rampant. So she came here. We let her
come to
get an education, then let her stay. And she has done _nothing_ during
her time here but make shrill, vitriolic accusations against
everything we
are; against our society, our institutioins, our culture and our
values. All
the while she wears "ethnic" clothes wherever she goes, triumphantly
emphasising that she is a Tanzanian - and damned proud of it - and has
no intention of adapting to Canada. During her time in Canada every
pennie she has ever spent, every meal she ever ate, every plane, train
or automobile she rode, was paid for by government.
Why, given this, would you be upset when people suggest she go
Humble Wisdom
"Hartmann Schaffer" <h...@heaven.nirvananet> wrote in message
news:3bd1...@news.sentex.net...
> > hates the west and westerners who are in her mind the source of
all
> > evil. Why she would choose to go on living among such terrible
people
> > is a mystery unless she does so because of the easy money.
>
> ne possible explanation: despite its flaws she finds western
> societies less inhospitable (despite members like you) than
> alternatives and is trying to make them even better
Would you like to point us to somewhere she has complimented
the West, its values and institutions, and compared them favourably
to the likes of Tanzania?
Humble Wisdom
"John Baglow" <ai...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:9qpg0e$q61$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
>
> You're right. These people are calling, loud and clear, for a double
> standard. They should be allowed to say any offensive thing that
they
> wish--and do, right in this forum. But heaven help an immigrant
saying
> things *they* find offensive. Why, that ungrateful [sexist epithet
here]
> should go back to the shit hole she comes from.
Nobody is saying immigrants should not enjoy freedom of speech.
We just find it a trifle odd when they beg us to let them in and they
spend their entire lives attacking us and proudly parading their
origins in our faces with an attitude that they're morally superior
to us. Tanzania IS a shithole, where Thobani would be brutally
smacked down if she tried her hijinks, where racism against
Asians is violent and rampant. Yet I've never heard her say
anything about how much better life is here than there, never
heard her say ANYTHING favourable about Canada or
the West. Everywhere she goes she wears ethnic dress, as if
to set herself apart from Canadians and trumpet her ethnic
origins. Why isn't she ashamed of Tanzania and its brutality,
racism and sexism? You'd think she'd want to adopt Canadian
ways instead of clinging to Tanzanian values.
Humble Wisdom
> My people came to Canada in 1760,
Mine were here in 1214 - BC.
Boy, it's so easy to lie through your teeth on Usenet,
especially if you're a drooling moron like Kennedy.
Humble Wisdom
> > A challenge you continue to evade. You see racism where it does
not exist.
> > That is now proven.
>
came
> from" is racist. You can equivocate all you want, but that
inconvenient
> fact remains.
What if Thobani were white and came from, say, the U.K. and
we told her to go back to the shithole she came from? Would
that be racist? If we told YOU to go back to the UK would
that be racist?
John Baglow
Because you are setting up a double standard for free discussion. If I
make a comment that is critical of the status quo, my ideas [under optimum
conditions] are the focus of discussion--or, as often happens here, I get
the usual generic abuse. But when that uppity woman Thobani makes a
criticism, the criticism isn't the subject of discussion--she is. It's
called ad hominem argument, perhaps in her case ad mulieram. And it's been
of a particularly nasty kind, by and large.
So what you are really saying is, "Watch out, immigrant. Yes, you might be
a citizen of Canada, with all the rights and privileges that entails, but
heaven help you if you open your mouth to criticise or protest anything
in the country to which you should be grateful. Say the wrong thing and
we'll make your origin the issue."
John Baglow
This point has been raised before. My response is that you lot *don't* do
that, as a rule. So, yes, you *could*, but you don't. Only in her case
does the matter become the focus of discussion.
Why do you suppose that is?
Lawrence
<9qs85o$2g6$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>:
There are any number of inane rejoinders used in newsgroups.
Following close on the heels of "get a life" is the generic
directive of "crawl back 1) into your hole, 2) under your rock,
3) into your closet 4) to whatever diseased vermin spawned you".
How many times have you specifically been told to '...go back
to your blank blank blank ... you rotten blank'? I'm sure you
don't have a running total but I doubt the phrase is unfamiliar
to you. Why is it simply rudeness when directed at you and
'racism' when directed at Thobani?
Lawrence
John Baglow
Well, I've never actually been told to go anywhere but to Hell, which no
one seriously believes was my birthplace. :)
Sure I've been called names, but more attention has been paid to whatever
it was I was posting about, as a rule. To be sure, one or two fools here
have made continual reference to my union associations, even when my posts
have had nothing whatever to do with those, but again, there's a real
difference of degree. Thobani has come in for an unprecedented amount of
abuse, not for her statements, but for *who she is*. It's as though no
immigrant woman should even have the temerity to voice an opinion. The
intensity has been without parallel in my experience.
You and I have discussed her ideas and so on, and that's what *should*
happen. But for too many people here, it's the person, not the comments,
that is the subject under discussion.
Stephen H. Kawamoto
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"dogbreath" <dogbreat...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:9qqpi...@drn.newsguy.com...
Humble Wisdom
> "Humble Wisdom" (B9...@hotmail.com) writes:
> > What if Thobani were white and came from, say, the U.K. and
> > we told her to go back to the shithole she came from? Would
> > that be racist? If we told YOU to go back to the UK would
> > that be racist?
>
> This point has been raised before. My response is that you lot
*don't* do
> that, as a rule. So, yes, you *could*, but you don't. Only in her
case
> does the matter become the focus of discussion.
>
> Why do you suppose that is?
It could be because she's a shrill, hateful woman or that her accent
and looks make it patently obvious she is not from here, wheras most
people here probably don't realize you are an immigrant to Canada.
Humble Wisdom
> "Humble Wisdom" (B9...@hotmail.com) writes:
I don't believe that's true. If a rich men like Paul Martin and Brian
Mulroney dismiss the economic problems of the masses should I not
point out that their view arise from a position of comfortable wealth?
You no doubt constantly point out the empowerment of White males to
dismiss their complaints about affirmative action programs. It's
called context. Who a person is sometimes can be an important part of
their credibility in what they have to say.
Who Thobani is is a woman who was welcomed to Canada, a far, far, far
better place with a far, far more tolerant culture than hers, and
given no end of aid and money by our government but who has had, as
far as I know, nothing at all good to say about us and continues to
show a pride in her racist cultural origins. That IS a context for her
opinions. Why should she continually heap scorn and vitriol upon our
allegedly racist and prejudiced culture while taking pride in one
which is infintely worse?
> So what you are really saying is, "Watch out, immigrant. Yes, you
might be
> a citizen of Canada, with all the rights and privileges that
entails, but
> heaven help you if you open your mouth to criticise or protest
anything
> in the country to which you should be grateful. Say the wrong thing
and
> we'll make your origin the issue."
If Thobani spent some time spewing hate against the racist and sexist
cultures of Africa, Asia and the mideast then I think her origins
would have less play. But since she seems to take pride in being a
Tanzanian and focuses all her wrath and hate on the West then her
origins become fair game.
As for generic abuse: Let's be honesty here and admit that had a fat
white woman made the same comments there would have been no ends of
comments on her weight. Her origins are simply an obvious place for
attack for those outraged at her abusive words. They did not provoke
the outrage.
dogbreath
>
>Yes, you said thobani is being criticized for telling the truth.
And here I thought I was saying that
she was being criticized for being a
racist, sexist, unfeeling, pig.
Not that I want to claim that the hands
of the USA are lilly white. Neither
individuals, nor nations ever get that
privilege,
radio5
"Humble Wisdom" <B9...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cJiA7.80300$5h5.32...@news3.rdc2.on.home.com...
Did you ever notice how many ex-Brits who find the need to emigrate to
Canada, seem to be leftwing, unionist agitators?
Humble Wisdom
"radio5" <ww...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PHlA7.299097$j65.79...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
accent
> > and looks make it patently obvious she is not from here, wheras
most
> > people here probably don't realize you are an immigrant to Canada.
> >
>
> Did you ever notice how many ex-Brits who find the need to emigrate
to
> Canada, seem to be leftwing, unionist agitators?
>
Ivan Gowch
wrote:
[snip]
==>As for generic abuse: Let's be honesty here and admit that had a fat
==>white woman made the same comments there would have been no ends of
==>comments on her weight.
Yes -- and those comments would have come
from the same lame, stone-stupid morons whose
inability to win debating points with logic and
facts reduces them to hurling mindless insults
and racist barbs. And, of course, with every
dumbass comment about her ethnicity, her
national origin, her gender and about how
"ungrateful" she is for having been permitted
into the paradise which is Canada, Thobani's
criticisms are given credence, again and again.
==> Her origins are simply an obvious place for
==>attack for those outraged at her abusive words.
Actually, it's obvious only to assholes
whose intellectual deficits prevent them from
rebutting her arguments with arguments of
their own.
BTW, one may disagree with Thobani's views,
may even find her words offensive, but there's
nothing "abusive" about them -- except to those
who think it's abusive for _some_ people to
exercise their right of free speech.
--
Who will say with confidence that sexual abuse is more
permanently damaging to children than threatening them
with the eternal and unquenchable fires of hell?
- Richard Dawkins
JMD
>
> Why on Earth are you trying to discuss something with the
> Kennedy `bot? You'd have more luck persuading Carrick,
> a far more thoughtful and moderate poster.
I got sucked into a flame fest. No more. I am not going to respond to
anything that idiot Kennedy says from now on. You cannot have a reasonable
discussion with a name-caller.
John Dowell
Mike Warren
> People criticized the novelist who compared oil companies to
> terrorists, and also the other dissenters -- in fact, the US
> government is clamping down on dissent.
Does the FBI want to use torture?
<URL:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/specials/attacked/A27748-2001Oct20.html>
--
mike [at] mike [dash] warren.com
<URL:http://www.mike-warren.com>
GPG: 0x579911BD :: 87F2 4D98 BDB0 0E90 EE2A 0CF9 1087 0884 5799 11BD
Stephen H. Kawamoto
unfeeling.
there are actually more people in support of thobani than objecting to her
comments.
she helped to expose alot of perpetrators of hate crime in the fall out over
her speech.
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"dogbreath" <dogbreat...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:9qsdu...@drn.newsguy.com...
king arthur
up to much, your silly support of thobani shows that you lack the mind to
see, what their real goal is.
"Stephen H. Kawamoto" <shkaw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cg2B7.112761$ob.24...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
Stephen H. Kawamoto
'tis a boon ta scan ye.
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"king arthur" <king....@hotmail.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:373B7.20411$Gh2.6...@news2.rdc1.bc.home.com...
> Steve your a goof, your all for pro feminist, I still think you been
smoking
> up to much, your silly support of thobani shows that you lack the mind to
> see, what their real goal is.
>
trans: glad to see you're limiting your intellect, king arthur.
nice to hear from you.
king arthur
"Stephen H. Kawamoto" <shkaw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DP3B7.113037$ob.24...@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
Stephen H. Kawamoto
"Repeal the drug laws so that terrorists don't use Canada to fund their
violence through South Asian crime gangs."
I would note that the UN convention on drug basically recommends no criminal
action be taken against drug addicts, since the high volume traffickers are
the real criminals here not the users.
Yet our Mounties have claimed they make no discrimination between medicinal
users and stoners.
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"king arthur" <king....@hotmail.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:JX3B7.20440$Gh2.6...@news2.rdc1.bc.home.com...
Mike Warren
> I would note that the UN convention on drug basically recommends no
> criminal action be taken against drug addicts, since the high volume
> traffickers are the real criminals here not the users.
Why is ``trafficking'' drugs a bad thing?
king arthur
> let me paraphrase our leader of BCMP, Marc Emery, the seed king:
Yes the one, and only Marc who uses censership and terror on those who
disagree with him, Bin Laden would be proud of another terrorist.
SNIP
Honest John
<shkaw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yet our Mounties have claimed they make no discrimination between medicinal
>users and stoners.
That's because there is little difference, most of the so called
'medicinal users' are stoners who are jumping on the health badwagon
to get their fix.
pat
In article <3bd6ae6b...@news.eagle.ca>, h...@taxpayers.ca (Honest
John) wrote:
And what about those who consume alcohol for its "medicianl benefit" (as
far as its effects on arteries and cholesterol goes), but in reality are
simply chugging down a six pack of beer while watching that hockey game,
until they pass out? Why aren't we arresting all these people hiding
behind the acceptable "social drinkers" label, when in fact they are
technically drug users given they use alcohol as a relaxant?
Ironic we dump on Taliban for its persecution of harmless nonconformists,
like women putting on mascara, or praying to the "wrong" deity, while in
our own back yard "we" are responsible for socially acceptable attrocity
because, like good little "Nazis", "we" too managed to demonise a harmless
segment of the population based on outdated hysteria conceived in a
sanctimonious hypocrite's mind who's long since been eaten by worms and is
now probably burning in hell for all the suffering his inhuman policies
caused.
-Pat.
Honest John
RemoveSpoiler2...@telusplanet.net (pat) wrote:
>
>Ironic we dump on Taliban for its persecution of harmless nonconformists,
>like women putting on mascara, or praying to the "wrong" deity, while in
>our own back yard "we" are responsible for socially acceptable attrocity
>because, like good little "Nazis", "we" too managed to demonise a harmless
>segment of the population based on outdated hysteria conceived in a
>sanctimonious hypocrite's mind who's long since been eaten by worms and is
>now probably burning in hell for all the suffering his inhuman policies
>caused.
I guess you are still addicted to that dope.
pat
In article <3bd6cd5a...@news.eagle.ca>, h...@taxpayers.ca (Honest
John) wrote:
[snip]
> I guess you are still addicted to that dope.
Which dope - sanity, common decency, sympathy for fellow human beings?
Just out of curiosity - is there ANY *relatively* harmless human vice (at
most effecting only the user) for which you wouldn't "crucify" people? I
mean, I can understand if you'd criticise premarital sex which cheapens
human intimacy and can lead to shallow relationships ending up in
breakups, or criticise marital infidelity which harms everyone from the
kids to the spouse, or criticise polluting energies which poison everybody
without consent including those advocates of feasible alternative clean
energies, but responsible use of relaxation-inducing substances in a
nerve-wracking world? Is there any socially harmless activity in which you
engage which CAN be deemed as "harmful" in the twisted minds of malevolent
hypocrites hell bent on making sure everybody becomes as cynical and/or
bitter as they are?
-Pat.
ro...@telus.net
The only people who benefit from drug prohibition are the dealers, so
I guess you are still a dealer.
-- Roy L
Honest John
>>
>>I guess you are still addicted to that dope.
>
>The only people who benefit from drug prohibition are the dealers, so
>I guess you are still a dealer.
No doubt you also believe that the only people who benefit from
homicide laws are murderers. Just because you spout nonsense doesn't
make it true.