Guns and Butter from Ike
penny
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired
signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are
not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone.
It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its
scientists, the hopes of its children.
The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in
more than 30 cities.
It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000
population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.
It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement.
We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of
wheat.
We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed
more than 8,000 people.. . .
This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense . . . it is
humanity hanging from a cross of iron
Dwight Eisenhower, April,1953 (RIP)
-----------------------
Those military industrial complexes and the NRA must go if the world
wants peace, justice, happiness and all the really good things in
life.
Stephen Harper is building up to a military industrial complex. .$500
billion over 20 years on top of what we are already spending. And we
haven't even got a decent helicopter in Afghanistan.
Sheesh!
Penny
Chom Noamsky
news:85ic5598npt88ls7r...@4ax.com...
All I can say is bombers were sure cheap back in Eisenhower's day.
Brainiac
> > billion over 20 years on top of what we are already spending. And we
> > haven't even got a decent helicopter in Afghanistan.
> >
> > Sheesh!
>
> All I can say is bombers were sure cheap back in Eisenhower's day.
>
So were those ships!
Lemme see! In 1955, my folks bought a house in the suburbs of Toronto for
$14,500. (it was also at a flat rate, 5% mortgage for the entire 25-year
term - no changes to the rate in those days).
So, 8,000 houses at today's market price of $350,000 (approx, and accounting
for the recent real estate decline) equals $2,800,000,000 (almost $3 billion)
That is one cheap destroyer!
I did my homework.
According to a report in January:
The cost of each new U.S. DDG 1000 destroyer nearly doubled to just under $6
billion after the Navy decided to halt the program at just three ships. The
ships are being built by Northrop Grumman Corp (NOC.N) and General Dynamics
Corp (GD.N), and come with a combat system built by Raytheon Co (RTN.N).
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssAerospaceDefense/idUSN0237076520090202.
Brainiac
Oops! It was enough to house 8,000 people. Not 8,000 houses. My bad.
That actually works out worse, considering the average home of a man, woman,
2.1 kids and a dog!
So, we're looking at 2,000 houses times $350,000 = $700 Million in today's
money.
That is one EXCEPTIONALLY cheap destroyer, in Dwight's day!
Brainiac
> Always thought the Ike's words were a little strange, given that as a
> general he was an integral part of the MIC and later, as president he
> remained so, ushering in the age of the Nuclear submarine and the nice
> shiny fleet of B-52's which fed the MIC copiously.
>
>
Ike's final address as President in '61 (beware of the military industrial
complex) combined with the aformentioned "Guns and Butter" bit, were really
not what one would expect. Especially for a military man and a Republican!
Oh well, the biggest socialist concept in the world today is still in many
ways the US military. :)
Duncan Patton a Campbell
Dealing with the MI Complex will require both legal and economic
remodeling at a systemic, global level. At the present there is
no political will to do this.
Dhu
--
Duncan Patton a Campbell is Dhu
Brainiac
> Dealing with the MI Complex will require both legal and economic
> remodeling at a systemic, global level. At the present there is
> no political will to do this.
>
So, I suppose that you would agree with the stupidity that though our country
is in massive deficit, the Harper government was bitching and complaining
about $400K towards a Toronto Gay Pride Parade, that (like the Indy race in
Edmonton) brings in around $100 million in tourist dollars. But then said
"Hey! We're spending $5 billion on new armored vehicles for the troops", and
they will be ready by the time our commitment to Afghanistan is well over!
So? What the fuck are they for? Parades? :)
I just love "Conservative Common Sense".
SaPeIsMa
> signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are
> not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
>
That presumes that "those who hunger" for the things you own deserve them
and should have a shot a stealing them from you
So what have you done recently for all those you list ?
> This world in arms is not spending money alone.
>
> It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its
> scientists, the hopes of its children.
>
And many of the modern developments that you use uncounsciously every day
come DIRECTLY from all that sweat of laborers who CHOOSE not to be the
victims of the bullies of the planet.
who CHOOSE to stand up and FIGHT for their rights and freedoms against those
who would enslave them
> The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in
> more than 30 cities.
>
What is the value of your freedom ?
> It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000
> population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.
>
> It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement.
>
> We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of
> wheat.
>
> We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed
> more than 8,000 people.. . .
>
>
> This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense . . . it is
> humanity hanging from a cross of iron
>
> Dwight Eisenhower, April,1953 (RIP)
> -----------------------
>
> Those military industrial complexes and the NRA must go if the world
> wants peace, justice, happiness and all the really good things in
> life.
>
So tell us how you intend to defend yourself from the thugs of the planet
when you have gone Kumbaya and turned all the swords into ploughsares ?
Just because you are stupid enough to do so is NO GARANTEE that the thugs of
the world will stop being thugs for all that
> Stephen Harper is building up to a military industrial complex. .$500
> billion over 20 years on top of what we are already spending. And we
> haven't even got a decent helicopter in Afghanistan.
>
And you haven't got a decent brain in your head.
Too bad there is no solution for that
10x
>
>Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired
>signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are
>not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
And you are wrtting this in English rather than German or Japanese
because of guns, bombs, warships, and rockets.
Be thankful there are men willing to give their lives for your
freedom.
Chom Noamsky
"Brainiac" <brai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.24c06153b...@news.x-privat.org...
Their common sense tells them they are about to get booted from office, so
better start paying back all those favours before they lose grip on the
purse strings.
Chom Noamsky
> What is the value of your freedom ?
Well, if Canada was under threat from a known enemy then it might make sense
to invest in the military. But we have no real defence issues at the
moment, all we've been doing is big brother tag-alongs to knock third and
fourth world shitholes over for resources and geopolitical domination.
John
> What is the value of your freedom ?
>
If you honestly believe that the right to conceal and carry a pistol is your
freedom, you are a bigger goof than you appear to be.
And, you do a great job of being a goof, an ignoranus and a bloody clown.
What's your accuracy with a Glock? 35 metres?
I own rifles, and they would see you out of the way far before that range.
Pistols? They're useless.
I would own your ass.
Ask Fifi
Fifi said to Don the baker
Can you show me how to bake another bun, Don,
And I'm still sittin' with my
next door neighbour sayin'
Where'd you get the gun, John?
Don't you wanna rain dance with me?
Christopher was askin' the astronomer
Can your telescope tell me where the sun's gone,
And I'm still sittin' with my
next door neighbour sayin'
Where'd you get the gun, John?
Don't you wanna rain dance with me?
Brainiac
But then Alberta, before Obama, said that they would join the USA (under Bush)
and become important, like Guam or Puerto Rico!
Of course they assumed two things. The first was that BC would join them, the
second was that they would become a State, and move up the line and be in
front of Guam and Peurto Rico. Protectorates that have no representation in
Washington DC.
That is the goal of the Albera Seperatists!
Smart like Street Car, Fast like Train.
Brainiac
> out of it, couldn't we?
Well, Japan was only a threat to the USA and Western Canada in fantasy. Dr.
Suzuki and his family had their possessions confiscated and ended up in a
camp. I guess that you have noticed that there are plenty of "China towns",
"Greek towns" and so-on in major metro areas, but why aren't there any "Little
Japans"? I can tell you why, they were scared shitless from what happened to
them in WW2 and they "integrated". I know that because I have had the
pleasure of working for 4 Japanese corporations, 2 from Tokyo (Canon and
Toshiba) and 2 from the south, Osaka (Kyocera and Minolta). You get to know
these things after a while.
And just so you know, the people in Tokyo speak Japanese very fast with a
particular accent, and regard those from Osaka in the south as "slow talking
rubes", not my remark, but from the president of Kyocera in Canada who I
became friends with. Sounds like the US north and the US south to me, he
agreed.
And if you really think that we would be Sprechens Sie Deutsch?
English is a Germanic language anyway.
10x
wrote:
At leas the money isn't being given to Liberal friendly advertising
agencies that don't deliver....
10x
Hard to tell them from the Liberala isn't it...
10x
wrote:
>But then Alberta, before Obama, said that they would join the USA (under Bush)
>and become important, like Guam or Puerto Rico!
What folks from Alberta said that? Ralph Klein? Ed Stelmach?
>Of course they assumed two things. The first was that BC would join them, the
>second was that they would become a State, and move up the line and be in
>front of Guam and Peurto Rico. Protectorates that have no representation in
>Washington DC.
>
>That is the goal of the Albera Seperatists!
You haven't been doing your homework.
10x
<lobb...@goaway.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:32:54 GMT, 10x <10x@telu�s.net> wrote:
>
>C'mon, we could have sat down with Hitler & Hirohito and talked them
>out of it, couldn't we?
Neville Chamberlaine did that, worked well didn't it....
David Johnston
wrote:
>E. Barry Bruyea wrote
>>
>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:32:54 GMT, 10x <10x@telu�s.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:53:02 -0400, penny <gor...@sentex.net > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired
>> >>signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are
>> >>not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
>> >
>> >And you are wrtting this in English rather than German or Japanese
>> >because of guns, bombs, warships, and rockets.
>> >Be thankful there are men willing to give their lives for your
>> >freedom.
>>
>> C'mon, we could have sat down with Hitler & Hirohito and talked them
>> out of it, couldn't we?
>
>Well, Japan was only a threat to the USA and Western Canada in fantasy.
That fantasy would have quickly become a reality had there been no
naval force in the way.
10x
wrote:
>E. Barry Bruyea wrote
>>
>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:32:54 GMT, 10x <10x@telu�s.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:53:02 -0400, penny <gor...@sentex.net > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired
>> >>signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are
>> >>not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
>> >
>> >And you are wrtting this in English rather than German or Japanese
>> >because of guns, bombs, warships, and rockets.
>> >Be thankful there are men willing to give their lives for your
>> >freedom.
>>
>> C'mon, we could have sat down with Hitler & Hirohito and talked them
>> out of it, couldn't we?
>
>Well, Japan was only a threat to the USA and Western Canada in fantasy.
You missed the part about Pearl Harbour, Hong Kong, Sinagpore, Burma,
and the battle of the Pacific?
SaPeIsMa
"John" <jo...@guesswho.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.24c0978b...@news.x-privat.org...
> SaPeIsMa wrote
>> What is the value of your freedom ?
>>
>
> If you honestly believe that the right to conceal and carry a pistol is
> your
> freedom, you are a bigger goof than you appear to be.
>
Oh look.
It's my stupid stalker who used to be on AIEO.
Apparently you got kicked off for your stalking ?
Poor baby.
And are you also stupid enough to imagine that I won't see your attempt to
redirect as well ?
Apparently so.
But to address your stupid response.
You seem to have a problem with your logic
Where have I stated that "the right to conceal and carry a pistol is your
freedom" ?
If you're going to attack me, have the intelligence to do so with
things I have stated insted of what the voices in your head tell you.
II will also not that it's an interesting change of subject
Nowhere in the previous post (which I restored at the bottom of this post to
demonstrate it) was there any mention of that...'
> And, you do a great job of being a goof, an ignoranus and a bloody clown.
>
feel free to demonstrate that using other than your fantasy, and your
strawman arguments
> What's your accuracy with a Glock? 35 metres?
>
Wouldn't know, since I do NOT own a Glock
On the other hand, I can easily shoot 5" groups at 50 yards with most of my
pistols and revolvers
And if I use a support, I can get it to within 3".
But were I shooting seriously at those distances, I would use a rifle, most
of which give me 1" groups or less using open sights.
> I own rifles, and they would see you out of the way far before that range.
>
Well that's nice.
But why should I care ?
Are you planning on stalking me and taking pot shots at me ?
(and you've just given me the perfect reason to file a complaint with your
new provider.)
Oh wait a sec, it's not you, but your rifles that would "see you out of the
way far before that range."
You must have truly wonderful and miraculous rifles, if they have sight...
But if that's the case, they also probably have more intelligence than
you...
Aren't you lucky that your rifles with their intelligence allow you to claim
that you are more intelligent than a stupid sponge.
I'm so glad for you...
?
> Pistols? They're useless.
>
Uh-huh !
If you say so !
That must be why they're standard issue to both police and military
Because "they're useless".
(and you accuse me of being " a goof, an ignoranus and a bloody clown.")
>
> I would own your ass.
>
Only in your (very limited) fantasies where you imagine being in contol of
anyhting
Too bad that you only control your keyboard
And even that you do badly...
So sad <sigh>
>
> Ask Fifi
>
> Fifi said to Don the baker
> Can you show me how to bake another bun, Don,
> And I'm still sittin' with my next door neighbour sayin'
> Where'd you get the gun, John?
>
> Don't you wanna rain dance with me?
>
>
> Christopher was askin' the astronomer
> Can your telescope tell me where the sun's gone,
> And I'm still sittin' with my next door neighbour sayin'
> Where'd you get the gun, John?
>
> Don't you wanna rain dance with me?
>
What are we supposed to think with ranting like this when you accuse others
of being "a goof, an ignoramus and a bloody clown." ?
Clearly, you're off your meds
penny
What's to stop us dealing with the mini MI Complex starting up in
Canada.
Harper is spending almost half a trillion dollars over 20 years to
build it up, and that's above and beyond what we were already spending
annually.
Much of our taxes will be sucked up into building Pentagon North if
we don't stop Harper. He's already getting contracts signed as fast
as he can to make it impossible for future governments to get out of
the spending commitments
. Check the following:
http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/512832
The talk around Ottawa these days is about staying in Afghanistan
after 2011 and deploying CF18 fighter bombers to Afghanistan.
http://www.ceasefire.ca/take_action/
We can leave Pentagon South to Obama if he hangs onto power.
Penny
penny
wrote:
>Duncan Patton a Campbell wrote
Never mind gay pride , Harper would prefer to put his money into his
future MI complex.
Talk around Ottawa right now is that he plans to extend Afghanistan
beyond 2011 and is eager to get a fleet of CF18 fighter bombers there.
http://www.ceasefire.ca/take_action/
Penny
penny
<lobb...@goaway.com> wrote:
>Always thought the Ike's words were a little strange, given that as a
>general he was an integral part of the MIC and later, as president he
>remained so, ushering in the age of the Nuclear submarine and the nice
>shiny fleet of B-52's which fed the MIC copiously.
In retrospect, Ike had more reason than most to see the futility of
war, Barry.
Penny
Brainiac
> In retrospect, Ike had more reason than most to see the futility of
> war, Barry.
>
>
In those days, it was a lot like what my parents grew up with. Both my
parents were in the second world war. All their friends were in the second
world war. Most of them had lost friends or relatiions in the second world
war.
It touched everyone.
It may have been after the second world war, and during Korea; but those who
didn't experience being in the military or knew someone who was, were far and
few between. Unlike now.
I can't speak for Ike, but I think that I have a grasp about his audience.
penny
What freedom, dope!
When has Canada ever been attacked !
When there is a real threat facing us like a Hitler in Europe I'll
take up a gun myself.
Today we have the freedom loving rabid gun slingers ,the NRA, and
their followers, lobbying against an International agreement to stop
the spread of small arms around the world.
Those small arms are responsible for the deaths of half a trillion
people a year.
NRA followers include Breitkreitz, Day, Harper and other members of
our Conservative caucus. And you ! You all think freedom resides
in a gun.
Penny
Brainiac
> Never mind gay pride , Harper would prefer to put his money into his
> future MI complex.
>
> Talk around Ottawa right now is that he plans to extend Afghanistan
> beyond 2011 and is eager to get a fleet of CF18 fighter bombers there.
>
> http://www.ceasefire.ca/take_action/
>
> Penny
>
>
That's stupid.
Penny, I believe in our role there, but not in combat any more.
Adding a few CF18's is just more of a commitment. However, it's better than
our people being outside the wire.
I just don't see why we are purchasing $5 billion worth of armored vehicles
when they will not be ready until 2011.
And don't forget about the worthy, but cast off tanks from the German army!
Brainiac
>
> What freedom, dope!
>
> When has Canada ever been attacked !
>
> When there is a real threat facing us like a Hitler in Europe I'll
> take up a gun myself.
>
The yobs chit chat about pistols, as if they're meaningful.
Pistols are highly inaccurate and dangerous in public. That's why they have
been outlawed in Canada for over 70 years.
Guns as long arms are not a huge issue.
But some moron who has a pistol can shoot things up.
I am not in favour of pistols. I do not think that someone carrying one
makes things better for me. The law against them is sound and it has stood
since the early 1930's.
penny
wrote:
You do. And it adds to your understanding of those words of Ike's.
History is so important in Politics. Obama has it. Or, if he doesn't
he sure as heck makes sure he knows the history of any region he
visits. And it gives him an edge so large he has been able to
achieve wonders.
I'm still overwhelmed by the fact that he's actually had permission
from Moscow to transport arms across its land and airspace into
Afghanistan on a regular basis.
Obama saves the US a cool $133 million a year with that deal with a
shortened flying time and the waiving of transit fees.
Penny
10x
Are you saying that WWII was futile?
10x
>History is so important in Politics. Obama has it. Or, if he doesn't
>he sure as heck makes sure he knows the history of any region he
>visits. And it gives him an edge so large he has been able to
>achieve wonders.
Is that why Mr. Obama is moving U.S. troups into Afganistan?
10x
>On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:32:54 GMT, 10x <10x@telu�s.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:53:02 -0400, penny <gor...@sentex.net > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired
>>>signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are
>>>not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
>>
>>And you are wrtting this in English rather than German or Japanese
>>because of guns, bombs, warships, and rockets.
>>Be thankful there are men willing to give their lives for your
>>freedom.
>
>
>
>What freedom, dope!
You would rather be typing your posts in German or Japanese?
>When has Canada ever been attacked !
By the U.S. in 1812. Canadian troups guarding Hong Kong have been
attacked and Canadian ships were attacked during World War Two.
>
>When there is a real threat facing us like a Hitler in Europe I'll
>take up a gun myself.
There may be a real threat in the Taliban in Afganistan.
>>Today we have the freedom loving rabid gun slingers ,the NRA, and
>their followers, lobbying against an International agreement to stop
>the spread of small arms around the world.
Yes many folks do love freedom. And all of those small arms invovled
in conflicts were paid for by governments - they are not personally
purchased and owned firearms.
>Those small arms are responsible for the deaths of half a trillion
>people a year.
>
The governments who supplied those small arms and the people willing
to use them on their fellow humans are responsbile for those deaths.
The guns are NOT doing the killing all by themselves. There are
people who are willing to kill others who are using those guns.
>NRA followers include Breitkreitz, Day, Harper and other members of
>our Conservative caucus. And you ! You all think freedom resides
>in a gun.
You are wrong. Freedom includes the abiltiy to possess a gun - not to
use it to kill others.
Brainiac
> Obama saves the US a cool $133 million a year with that deal with a
> shortened flying time and the waiving of transit fees.
>
>
Fischer, we were knowing them by ice hockey.
Our American cousins still celebrate the "Miracle on Ice", when they beat the
Soviets and moved on to beat Finland for the Gold Medal.
But, when I was in grade 9, at the age of 14. It was all about hockey.
Paul Henderson (no a Priest) and Soviet Red Army Maj. Valislav Tretiak (The
goalie, now honoured by all, and head of the Russian Ice Hockey Federation).
And of course, MP Ken Dryden.
A great liberal.
And I was also a member of "The Bobby Fischer Club"
It's too bad that he turned out to be a nut bar!
When the Canadiens retired number 29, MP Ken Dryden, Tretiak was there with
"bells on". And the crowd in Montreal errupted with massive applause.
In those days, our American cousins hated the Soviets, and were really freaked
out when we did that 1972 summit series. We hated them too.
That's what made it so great.
10x
wrote:
>penny wrote
>>
>> What freedom, dope!
>>
>> When has Canada ever been attacked !
>>
>> When there is a real threat facing us like a Hitler in Europe I'll
>> take up a gun myself.
>>
>
>The yobs chit chat about pistols, as if they're meaningful.
>
>Pistols are highly inaccurate and dangerous in public. That's why they have
>been outlawed in Canada for over 70 years.
That is a lie. Police carry pistols in public all of the time.
Various states in the U.S. have laws allowing open and concealed carry
of pistols. There are indications that the violent crime rate is
lower in those jurisdictions where concealed carry of a pistol is
allowed.
>Guns as long arms are not a huge issue.
You are absolutely right. BUt the expensive and cumbersome
legislation that attempts to control the folks who own long guns is a
huge issue.
>
>But some moron who has a pistol can shoot things up.
Same as some moron with a drivers license can run over people at a bus
stop.
>I am not in favour of pistols. I do not think that someone carrying one
>makes things better for me. The law against them is sound and it has stood
>since the early 1930's.
There is no law "against" pistols in Canada. There is legislation
controlling who possesses pistols and where they are used.
But no one has ever proven that legislation to be sound or effective.
Dave Smith
>> C'mon, we could have sat down with Hitler & Hirohito and talked them
>> out of it, couldn't we?
>
> Well, Japan was only a threat to the USA and Western Canada in fantasy.
Oh? Tell that to the Chinese. While Japan was threatening the American
imperialization of the Pacific, their hostility was aggravated by
sanctions against them resulting from their aggression in China and the
atorcites being committed against the Chinese people.
> Dr. Suzuki and his family had their possessions confiscated and ended up
>in a camp. I guess that you have noticed that there are plenty of "China
> towns", "Greek towns" and so-on in major metro areas, but why aren't
>there any "Little Japans"? I can tell you why, they were scared
shitless
You should acknowledge that the Japanese living in communities were
basically Japanese, not Canadian. They lived here, but they were
Japanese. Most of them sent their kids to school in Japan. There was
good reason to question their loyalty. And BTW, they were not all
interred. My parents lived in BC in 1944-45 when my father was stationed
there after a stint in Europe. Their landlord had a Japanese gardener.
Brainiac
> Brainiac wrote:
> >> C'mon, we could have sat down with Hitler & Hirohito and talked them
> >> out of it, couldn't we?
> >
> > Well, Japan was only a threat to the USA and Western Canada in fantasy.
>
>
> Oh? Tell that to the Chinese. While Japan was threatening the American
> imperialization of the Pacific, their hostility was aggravated by
> sanctions against them resulting from their aggression in China and the
> atorcites being committed against the Chinese people.
What did Japanese imperialism in China have to do with the USA?
>
> > Dr. Suzuki and his family had their possessions confiscated and ended up
> >in a camp. I guess that you have noticed that there are plenty of "China
> > towns", "Greek towns" and so-on in major metro areas, but why aren't
> >there any "Little Japans"? I can tell you why, they were scared
> shitless
>
>
> You should acknowledge that the Japanese living in communities were
> basically Japanese, not Canadian. They lived here, but they were
> Japanese. Most of them sent their kids to school in Japan. There was
> good reason to question their loyalty. And BTW, they were not all
> interred. My parents lived in BC in 1944-45 when my father was stationed
> there after a stint in Europe. Their landlord had a Japanese gardener.
>
>
My mother was a radio operator, my father? He was in Ferry Command and later a
pilot in Bomber Command.
There was a question of the loyalty. People of German background were also
under scriteny, so were those of Italian heritage.
However, today they live apart. There are no "Japan towns". No ethinic
centres in the USA or Canada.
I live in a city that has the biggest Italian population outside of Italy.
We have three China towns. There's a little Poland, a German area (but if
you go to Kitchener Waterloo, you hit a good one) But if you want to find a
community of Japanese?
You really have to drll down deep.
Brainiac
Oh, I can tell you where to meet the influential Japanese.
Go to Jimbos, it's below the 401 off of Dixie road.
You will meet the President of Canon, the President of Kyocera, the President
of Matsushita Electric (Panasonic) and so on.
The big wheels of Toshiba will be there with their wives!
Brainiac
I suppose that it goes without saying that the Japanese cuisine is exceptional
at Jimbos.
Dave Smith
> Dave Smith wrote
>> Brainiac wrote:
>>>> C'mon, we could have sat down with Hitler & Hirohito and talked them
>>>> out of it, couldn't we?
>>> Well, Japan was only a threat to the USA and Western Canada in fantasy.
>>
>> Oh? Tell that to the Chinese. While Japan was threatening the American
>> imperialization of the Pacific, their hostility was aggravated by
>> sanctions against them resulting from their aggression in China and the
>> atorcites being committed against the Chinese people.
>
>
> What did Japanese imperialism in China have to do with the USA?
The US had territories in Asia and Japan was threatening them, and the
US had imposed sanctions on Japan because of their activities in China.
> However, today they live apart. There are no "Japan towns". No ethinic
> centres in the USA or Canada.
Nor anywhere else... that I know of.
penny
wrote:
>penny wrote
>> Never mind gay pride , Harper would prefer to put his money into his
>> future MI complex.
>>
>> Talk around Ottawa right now is that he plans to extend Afghanistan
>> beyond 2011 and is eager to get a fleet of CF18 fighter bombers there.
>>
>> http://www.ceasefire.ca/take_action/
>>
>> Penny
>>
>>
>
>
>That's stupid.
>
>
>Penny, I believe in our role there, but not in combat any more.
Why are we there? Afghanistan and the Taliban were not involved in
the attacks of 911. The Saudis were. The Taliban have never been
involved in terrorism outside Afghanistan.
While it's true that the Taliban harbored bin Laden and his gang, as
did Pakistan, they were quite prepared to hand him over to Bush when
asked. However, they wanted proof that bin Laden was responsible for
the attacks before they would hand him over.
Bush refused to produce any proof. The Taliban refused to hand him
over.
I'd love to see the people of Afghanistan have a functioning democracy
but not when we have to occupy the country militarily to get it., and
not when we became involved with breaking international laws while
working alongside Bush Americans.
http://www.ratical.org/radiation/DU/ICTforAatT.html#s2
Most of the countries of NATO have been against this occupation of
Afghanistan all along. .
>
>Adding a few CF18's is just more of a commitment. However, it's better than
>our people being outside the wire.
Those CF18's are fighter bombers. What are we doing in Afghanistan
with fighter/bombers. " The more civilians to kill, grandma? "
>
>I just don't see why we are purchasing $5 billion worth of armored vehicles
>when they will not be ready until 2011.
The Griffin helicopters won't be fully outfitted until 2012 although
they started arriving in Afghanistan last December.
The DOD incompetents are not even sure if these helis will be able to
handle the Afghan heat and tough flying.
It's the first time since the Korean War that the Canadian military
has deployed an air wing in a combat environment.
Who says this is not Harper's war with all the military hardware he's
pouring into that country.
>And don't forget about the worthy, but cast off tanks from the German army!
>
I won't forget, not in one of the biggest economic downturns since the
great depression. :-)
Half a trillion dollars for the military over the next twenty years on
top of what we were already spending on a yearly basis.
Meingottinhimmel !!!!!
Bella detesta matribus
Penny
penny
wrote:
I've never been into hockey. Rugby was my game. My first husband was
a rugby player and in those days I didn't miss a game.
That was in Wales where when the scrums went down there was rarely an
injury or a fight.
I love Ken Dryden, a passionate, sincere politician of integrity if
ever I saw one. :-)
Penny
penny
<lobb...@goaway.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:36:42 -0400, penny <gor...@sentex.net > wrote:
>
>So, because he has made the war more efficient, he's a great guy? You
>don't even recognize your own hypocrisy.
You actually have a point, Barry.
However, my anti-war feeling was overcome by the brilliance of Obama
in his dealings with the Russians. I'll try not to let it happen
again.
Do forgive my little transgression.!
Penny
penny
All wars are futile, 10.
However, in spite of the futility of wars, sometimes we are forced
into wars because of circumstances beyond our control, as in the case
of Hitler.
In spite of the futility of war, World War 11 is considered by many to
have been a Just war .
Penny
penny
<lobb...@goaway.com> wrote:
>Talk from who, Penny? Your paranoid, scare mongering friends?
You shouldn't project your problems onto others, Barry. It's very
naughty of you.
Since Obama came into power there's been talk around Ottawa about
Harper extending the Afghanistan mission beyond 2011. Why is he
putting so much military hardware over there if he intends to pull out
in 2011? Some of the Griffin helicopters won't be fully fitted until
2012. It's easy to see why there should be talk not only in Ottawa
but all over the ruddy place.
General Duff Sullivan wouldn't like to be called scare-mongering and
paranoid,. He's the one who seems to have released the information
onto the Ottawa talk scene about the CF18's. . He says he was
prompted by American allies to get the CF18's into action in
Afghanistan where he is serving.
In spite of what Peter McKay says about the decision to deploy CF18's
not going up the chain of command , read Sullivan's comments in the
last paragraph.
" Everything is now coagulating and coming together in respect to the
F-18. It will be full up and ready to go in the August-September time
frame, Sullivan said. If deployed, they would be stars over here."
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Allies+quietly+urging+Canada+deploy+Afghanistan/1512642/story.html
You know how secretive the Harper government is. They won't even
give out the cost of the war in Afghanistan anymore let alone the fact
they are ready to deploy CF18's
>And by
>the way, the CF-18 is not a fighter-bomber, but a strike fighter
>designed for air combat and was originally designed to be
>carrier-capable.
It's a fighter aircraft which drops bombs. That's a fighter-bomber in
my book. And in the URL at the end of this post:
" The CF-18s dropped 397 PGMs and 171 free-fall iron bombs on a wide
variety of military targets, from surface-to-air missile sites and
airfields, to bridges and fuel storage areas."
Check under "Operational History":
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/site/equip/cf18/history_e.asp
Penny
penny
>>When has Canada ever been attacked !
>
>By the U.S. in 1812. Canadian troups guarding Hong Kong have been
>attacked and Canadian ships were attacked during World War Two.
>
>>
>>When there is a real threat facing us like a Hitler in Europe I'll
>>take up a gun myself.
>
>There may be a real threat in the Taliban in Afganistan.
Hahaha ! You're a real hoot, 10! I'd see them coming with their
black turbans .
>
>>>Today we have the freedom loving rabid gun slingers ,the NRA, and
>>their followers, lobbying against an International agreement to stop
>>the spread of small arms around the world.
>
>Yes many folks do love freedom. And all of those small arms invovled
>in conflicts were paid for by governments - they are not personally
>purchased and owned firearms.
They are not all bought and paid for by government. They are also
bought by opposition factions, groups and individuals. >
>>Those small arms are responsible for the deaths of half a trillion
>>people a year.
>>
>The governments who supplied those small arms and the people willing
>to use them on their fellow humans are responsbile for those deaths.
>The guns are NOT doing the killing all by themselves. There are
>people who are willing to kill others who are using those guns.
And where did those guns come from.
That's where the real responsibility lies. with people who make a
profit out of the killing, wounding, and threatening of others with
guns, and people who lobby to stop the proliferation of small arms
like the NRA and their followers.
>
>>NRA followers include Breitkreitz, Day, Harper and other members of
>>our Conservative caucus. And you ! You all think freedom resides
>>in a gun.
>
>You are wrong. Freedom includes the abiltiy to possess a gun - not to
>use it to kill others.
If you never intend to use your gun to kill others then why own it.
That's not freedom. It's paranoia.
The most vulnerable people in this country don't own guns, women and
children. Yet, too many of them get killed, maimed, threatened with
guns, usually rifles and shotguns.
Why would you want to own a gun.
Don't tell me . I know you're not at the top of the food chain where
you live. That big black bear might get you if you didn't have a
rifle and a handgun.
Penny
10x
>
>On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:53:00 GMT, 10x <10x@telu�s.net> wrote:
>>>Penny wrote:
>
>
>>>When has Canada ever been attacked !
>
>>
>>By the U.S. in 1812. Canadian troups guarding Hong Kong have been
>>attacked and Canadian ships were attacked during World War Two.
>>
>>>
>>>When there is a real threat facing us like a Hitler in Europe I'll
>>>take up a gun myself.
>
>>
>>There may be a real threat in the Taliban in Afganistan.
>
>
>Hahaha ! You're a real hoot, 10! I'd see them coming with their
>black turbans .
And what would you do? Call 911?
Pull out your gun and defend yourself?
What if they come in a 747 through your office window?
How are you going to see their turbans then?
And how do you tell them from other folks who wear turbans?
>>
>>>>Today we have the freedom loving rabid gun slingers ,the NRA, and
>>>their followers, lobbying against an International agreement to stop
>>>the spread of small arms around the world.
>
>
>>
>>Yes many folks do love freedom. And all of those small arms invovled
>>in conflicts were paid for by governments - they are not personally
>>purchased and owned firearms.
>
>
>
>They are not all bought and paid for by government. They are also
>bought by opposition factions, groups and individuals. >
Yup, large companies and individuals who want to destablize local
governments.
BTW: who sold all the machetes to the Rwandans? There was an
incredible massacure there and very few guns were used.
>>>Those small arms are responsible for the deaths of half a trillion
>>>people a year.
>
>
>>>
>>The governments who supplied those small arms and the people willing
>>to use them on their fellow humans are responsbile for those deaths.
>>The guns are NOT doing the killing all by themselves. There are
>>people who are willing to kill others who are using those guns.
>
>
>
>And where did those guns come from.
A very good question?
The real question is who purchased those guns and distributed them and
why?
Those are the real culprits.
>That's where the real responsibility lies. with people who make a
>profit out of the killing, wounding, and threatening of others with
>guns, and people who lobby to stop the proliferation of small arms
>like the NRA and their followers.
I wasn't aware that the NRA was lobby groups dedicated to stopping the
proliferation of small arms....
>>
>>>NRA followers include Breitkreitz, Day, Harper and other members of
>>>our Conservative caucus. And you ! You all think freedom resides
>>>in a gun.
>
>>
>>You are wrong. Freedom includes the abiltiy to possess a gun - not to
>>use it to kill others.
>
>
>If you never intend to use your gun to kill others then why own it.
>That's not freedom. It's paranoia.
There are some 1.9 million Canadians who own guns and do NOT use them
to kill others.
>The most vulnerable people in this country don't own guns, women and
>children. Yet, too many of them get killed, maimed, threatened with
>guns, usually rifles and shotguns.
Maybe the most vulnerable people in the country should have a means of
self defense - pepper spray for instance - the gun legislation
prohibits possession of that as well.
>Why would you want to own a gun.
Why would someone not want to own a gun?
Why do some people fear those who own guns?
>Don't tell me . I know you're not at the top of the food chain where
>you live. That big black bear might get you if you didn't have a
>rifle and a handgun.
I haven't been gotten by a bear yet. I do know folks who have
defended their livestock and themselves from bears with firearms -
sucessufully.
I also knew a couple of people who did not have a gun and had
encounters with bears that ended in their death.
It is better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not
have it.
Duncan Patton a Campbell
> Why are we there? Afghanistan and the Taliban were not involved in the
> attacks of 911. The Saudis were. The Taliban have never been involved in
> terrorism outside Afghanistan.
>
It was Saudi nutbars hiding out in Afghanistan, was how the spin went.
Dhu
--
Duncan Patton a Campbell is Dhu
SaPeIsMa
"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
news:c0te55pku3r6rg1q7...@4ax.com...
>
>
> In retrospect, Ike had more reason than most to see the futility of
> war, Barry.
>
> Penny
>
No one disagrees that war is futile, except maybe those who are attacked and
need to defend themselves.
The problem with penny is that in her ignorance of history, she doesn't know
that whenever one group of people consider another ripe for the picking,
they will start a war.
We don't even have to look very far. The 20th Century is full of groups and
countries that attacked their neighbors.
Hell, there was even a war caused by a Soccer game.
So people who don't want to be attacked keep in mind the old adage
"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"
Which is why Peace loving countries had better be prepared to defend
themselves
Sadly, stupid and ignorant Kumbaya chanters like our henny-penny imagine
that if you get rid of your soldiers, then every one else will too.
Won't happen.
SaPeIsMa
Ergo it wasn't futile
Dang, there goes that silly premise from henny-penny.
Logic clearly is not her strong suit.
SaPeIsMa
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:32:54 GMT, 10x <10x@telu�s.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:53:02 -0400, penny <gor...@sentex.net > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired
>>>signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are
>>>not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
>>
>>because of guns, bombs, warships, and rockets.
>>Be thankful there are men willing to give their lives for your
>>freedom.
>
>
>
> What freedom, dope!
>
>
> take up a gun myself.
>
In what way, was Hitler a threat to Canada ?
When did German troops attakc Canada ?
Take as many screens as you need
> Today we have the freedom loving rabid gun slingers ,the NRA, and
> their followers, lobbying against an International agreement to stop
> the spread of small arms around the world.
>
Too bad that there is NO EVIDENCE that gun-control has EVER worked
r But then, you would never let something like that to get in the way of
you stupid and ignorant beliefs.
> Those small arms are responsible for the deaths of half a trillion
> people a year.
>
BZZZZZZT !
Now that's a lie
Now a SINGLE "small arm" has ever killed anyone
Nor has a SINGLE "small arm" ever made anyone kill someone
In your ignorant prejudice you blame to tool used instead of the ACTUAL
PEOPLE doing the killing
And let's not forget how efficiently people were killed in RWANDA with
MACHETES..
And let's not forget all the people who successfully use a gun to avoid
being the victims of criminals
A fact that hoplophobes like henny-penny ALWAYS avoid addressing
It's just an "INCONVENIENT TRUTH" to them.
> NRA followers include Breitkreitz, Day, Harper and other members of
> our Conservative caucus. And you ! You all think freedom resides
> in a gun.
>
BZZZZT !
Still projecting ignorant nonsense on others.
NO ONE believes something as stupid as
"..freedom resides in a gun"
except fools like you..
Guns are tools, inanimate objects
They do NOT radiate secret rays at people to make them do bad things
But then ignorant (and useful) idiots like henny-penny play into the hands
of dictators and tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, who are more than happy
to disarm the general population to better terrorize and rule them.
Sheep(le) are like that.
SaPeIsMa
>
>
> If you never intend to use your gun to kill others then why own it.
> That's not freedom. It's paranoia.
>
The really STUPID paranoia is the presumption that one own a gun ONLY for
the purpose of killing others
And you're right penny
Your paranoid belief is not freedom, it's just ignorant paranoia.
Three are 80,000,000 guns in the US, owned by over 80,000,000,000 people
And every year they fire of 8,000,000,000,000 rounds of ammunition
If as you claim their only purpose was to kill other people, then there
would be far more than about 14,000 homicides with guns in the US.
Too bad the facts prove your prejudice wrong
Now why is it that in the face of the facts that prove your prejudice wrong,
you continue stupidly with this claim ?
That qualifies as insanity...
> The most vulnerable people in this country don't own guns, women and
> children. Yet, too many of them get killed, maimed, threatened with
> guns, usually rifles and shotguns.
>
And guess what
In the US, when women own guns they are LESS, and NOT more vulnerable.
Read this
http://www.paulhager.org/why004.htm
And pay particular attention in the middle where the "halo effect" is
mentioned.
> Why would you want to own a gun.
>
For a whole slew of reasons that go FAR BEYOND your ignorant prejudice that
the only purpose for a gun is to kill others.
> Don't tell me . I know you're not at the top of the food chain where
> you live. That big black bear might get you if you didn't have a
> rifle and a handgun.
>
Of fuck off, you ignorant fool...
10x
<camp...@neotext.ca> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:52:13 -0400, penny wrote:
>
>
>> Why are we there? Afghanistan and the Taliban were not involved in the
>> attacks of 911. The Saudis were. The Taliban have never been involved in
>> terrorism outside Afghanistan.
>>
>
>It was Saudi nutbars hiding out in Afghanistan, was how the spin went.
>
>Dhu
When the details came out it was Saudi Nutbars who were initially
trained and financed by the good ole U.S. of A. to kick the Russians
out of Afganistan.
Osama Bin Laden comes to mind.
10x
wrote:
>In what way, was Hitler a threat to Canada ?
>When did German troops attakc Canada ?
> Take as many screens as you need
German submarines sunk a large number of Canadian ships on their way
to Europe during World War II.
10x
wrote:
>
>"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>news:ob7g55972fdpc9bjc...@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> If you never intend to use your gun to kill others then why own it.
>> That's not freedom. It's paranoia.
>>
>
>The really STUPID paranoia is the presumption that one own a gun ONLY for
>the purpose of killing others
RCMP officers for example, except for a couple of exccutions in cells
in Calgary and Smithers they don't use their guns to kill poeple -
they use tazers....
SaPeIsMa
"10x" <10x@telu�s.net> wrote in message
news:rk1l55pgbl3blk6h6...@4ax.com...
According to henny-penny's mindset, those silly buggers should have stayed
home..
Roy
> "10x" <10x@teluös.net> wrote in message
>
> news:rk1l55pgbl3blk6h6...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:36:57 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>In what way, was Hitler a threat to Canada ?
> >>When did German troops attakc Canada ?
> >> Take as many screens as you need
>
> > German submarines sunk a large number of Canadian ships on their way
> > to Europe during World War II.
>
> According to henny-penny's mindset, those silly buggers should have stayed
> home..
Always with the insults auld SaPelsMa...nasty troll.
=
Dave Smith
>> Dang, there goes that silly premise from henny-penny.
>> Logic clearly is not her strong suit.
>
>
> There is no question that WWII was a just war, but unfortunately, it
> was an avoidable war that grew into a just war because of gutless
> politicians and the influence of pacifism during the 30's.
Given that Britain and France had lost millions of men in WW I, and had
just been through a devastating depression, they just weren't interested
in a repeat of the carnage of the last war. They knew that they could
not count on the US helping them again. The US didn't even ratify the
Treaty of Versailles, despite Wilson having had the major influence on
the terms.
SaPeIsMa
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4a5bab57$0$3546$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
Except that it was the French with the help of the British who added the
punitive war damages that was one of the reasons for the rise of fascism in
Germany
Wilson had opposed that idea from the very beginning as being
counter-productive
And he was right
Which is why the US did the EXACT OPPOSITE after WWII with MASSIVE aid to
Japan and Germany to help them rebuild their economies as quickly as
possible.
Too bad that the Europeans forgot a lot of the lessons of the past century
and are not in the process of slowly cutting their own wrists and bleeding
themselves to death with a newer, but still deadly over the long term, form
of socialism.
penny
<camp...@neotext.ca> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:52:13 -0400, penny wrote:
>
>
>> Why are we there? Afghanistan and the Taliban were not involved in the
>> attacks of 911. The Saudis were. The Taliban have never been involved in
>> terrorism outside Afghanistan.
>>
>
>It was Saudi nutbars hiding out in Afghanistan, was how the spin went.
>
>Dhu
You don't bomb the shite out of a country and displace more than two
million people to get a few "Saudi nutbars" hiding out in the
mountains. That was an obscene action.
The Americans had the intelligence when Bin Laden was holed up at
Tora Bora. But they refused to send the CIA Commander, 1000 more boots
on the ground, and Bin Laden was lost.
Of course lying Bush and Cheney say now that Bin Laden was never at
Tora Bora. They never admit to incompetence.
Read what the Commander on the ground at Tora Bora says.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/terror/bin_laden_cia_commander_we_let_slip_away.htm
Penny
.
Dave Smith
>> Given that Britain and France had lost millions of men in WW I, and
>> had just been through a devastating depression, they just weren't
>> interested in a repeat of the carnage of the last war. They knew that
>> they could not count on the US helping them again. The US didn't even
>> ratify the Treaty of Versailles, despite Wilson having had the major
>> influence on the terms.
>
> Except that it was the French with the help of the British who added the
> punitive war damages that was one of the reasons for the rise of fascism
> in Germany
That and not taking the fight right into Germany for a total victory. A
lot of Germans didn't think that they lost the war.
> Wilson had opposed that idea from the very beginning as being
> counter-productive
> And he was right
Fine for him. His homeland was not devastated by the war and the US did
not lose a generation of young men. They came into the war very late,
and while the fresh troops and equipment tip the balance, they were not
the ones who had suffered the most. There were a lot of countries
involved in the war and some of them had switched sides. Facism was
also adopted by Italy, which had been an ally.
> Which is why the US did the EXACT OPPOSITE after WWII with MASSIVE aid
> to Japan and Germany to help them rebuild their economies as quickly as
> possible.
The other thing that they did was to insist on total victory and
unconditional surrender.
Dave Smith
> On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:57:45 GMT, Duncan Patton a Campbell
> <camp...@neotext.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:52:13 -0400, penny wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Why are we there? Afghanistan and the Taliban were not involved in the
>>> attacks of 911. The Saudis were. The Taliban have never been involved in
>>> terrorism outside Afghanistan.
>>>
>> It was Saudi nutbars hiding out in Afghanistan, was how the spin went.
>>
>> Dhu
>
>
> You don't bomb the shite out of a country and displace more than two
> million people to get a few "Saudi nutbars" hiding out in the
> mountains. That was an obscene action.
Were those people displaced by American bombing or by 9 years of soviet
occupation followed by another 12 years of civil war?
> The Americans had the intelligence when Bin Laden was holed up at
> Tora Bora. But they refused to send the CIA Commander, 1000 more boots
> on the ground, and Bin Laden was lost.
That is not the way the war was conducted. The US sent in special forces
with millions of dollars to bribe war lords to switch sides, backed up
by air strikes on Taliban strongholds when negotiations failed.
Duncan Patton a Campbell
Even in military terms it is increasingly difficult to justify
large scale investment in manned fighter aircraft, especially
if the only role left is as a full air-superiority multi-weapon
platform which the F18 can't really be.
UAVs out-perform conventional aircraft in a number of significant
ways and it would be stoopid to invest a lot into a fossil tech.
Of course, that's what we'll do to do our part in floating the
bloated military aviation industry thru these times of crisis.
Dhu (Happy Bastille Day!)
Dave Smith
> You don't bomb the shite out of a country and displace more than two
> million people to get a few "Saudi nutbars" hiding out in the
> mountains. That was an obscene action.
I am curious where you got that figure of 2 million displaces people
From what I have gathered, there were 3 million Afghan refugees in
Pakistan and 2 million in Iran. Another million left in the face of
American attacks... 1/5 the number that had already left. The number in
Pakistan, including those born over that 20 years, rose to 5 million.
Now there are 2 million, the rest having returned. So while there was a
slight increase in the number of refugees in 2001, a lot of them have
been able to return to Afghanistan, which would mean that those actions
actually made it safer for them to return home.
penny
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>penny wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:57:45 GMT, Duncan Patton a Campbell
>> <camp...@neotext.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:52:13 -0400, penny wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why are we there? Afghanistan and the Taliban were not involved in the
>>>> attacks of 911. The Saudis were. The Taliban have never been involved in
>>>> terrorism outside Afghanistan.
>>>>
>>> It was Saudi nutbars hiding out in Afghanistan, was how the spin went.
>>>
>>> Dhu
>>
>>
>> You don't bomb the shite out of a country and displace more than two
>> million people to get a few "Saudi nutbars" hiding out in the
>> mountains. That was an obscene action.
>
>Were those people displaced by American bombing or by 9 years of soviet
>occupation followed by another 12 years of civil war?
By American bombing. It's impossible forget the hundreds of thousands
lined up along the roads to Pakistan and Iran. At the end of 2001
there were still 1 million displaced Afghans in Afghanistan beside
those who moved over the border.
During the first four weeks of the attack in October , 2001, Bush
dropped " half a million tons of bombs" on Afghanistan, " 20 kilos for
every man, woman and child" A " documented" 3, 763 civilians were
killed.
P. X111 "The New Nuclear Danger" Dr. H. Caldicott
There were 500,000 displaced persons in the Mazir-i-Sharif area alone
after the October, 2001 bombing campaign and 160,000 of those managed
to cross into Pakistan despite the closing of the borders. And that
was in just one city.
Check the following to get some idea
http://books.google.ca/books?id=bv4hzxpo424C&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=Millions+of+Afghans+displaced+
by+2001+bombing+attack&source=bl&ots=bC_Zxzqr-H&sig=NIUqUIDtPn_e80x1PF3f2cR4WX4&hl=en&ei=zk5dSvmRBI-AMpPn9b8C&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6
>> The Americans had the intelligence when Bin Laden was holed up at
>> Tora Bora. But they refused to send the CIA Commander, 1000 more boots
>> on the ground, and Bin Laden was lost.
>
>
>That is not the way the war was conducted.
We're not talking normal war here. We're talking Bush "incompetent
war". And we're talking about what happened at Tora Bora.
>The US sent in special forces
>with millions of dollars to bribe war lords to switch sides, backed up
>by air strikes on Taliban strongholds when negotiations failed.
I remember reading an article that Bin Laden was cornered at Tora
Bora at the time and that the CIA had asked for more special forces:
Here's what happened: (some excerpts below):
http://www.antiwar.com/sperry/?articleid=10981
" In spite of the CIA's repeated advice to move against bin Laden in
Tora Bora, the commander-in-chief and his top security advisers did
not act. They ignored key intelligence."
" Gary Berntsen, the key CIA field commander on the ground near Tora
Bora at the time. ...in vain requested 800 American army rangers to
prevent bin Laden's escape. The request was denied by Franks, who
argued U.S. troops were not necessary because an Afghan militia had
been hired to fight in their place. His priority was removing the
Taliban from power, even though al-Qaeda financed, controlled and
sponsored the Taliban, and not the other way around."
" Bernsten's account is corroborated by former CIA official Hank
Crumpton, who personally briefed Bush and Cheney, as well as Franks,
about the need to go after bin Laden in Tora Bora.
" Crumpton, who headed up the CIA's Afghan campaign, was in constant
contact with Franks. Just weeks before bin Laden escaped, he strongly
urged the general to move marines to the cave complex in Tora Bora,
complaining "the back door was open." But Franks balked.
So Crumpton turned to the commander-in-chief and tried a more direct
appeal. "We're going to lose our prey if we're not careful," he told
Bush. Cheney also was in the meeting, according to Ron Suskind, author
of the One Percent Doctrine.
But they did nothing. In spite of the CIA's repeated advice to move
against bin Laden in Tora Bora, the commander-in-chief and his top
security advisers did not act. They ignored key intelligence."
" Then there's Gary C. Schroen, the CIA field officer in charge of the
initial CIA incursion into Afghanistan after 9/11. The author of First
In: An Insider's Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror
in Afghanistan also refutes the Pentagon and the White House."
______________________
How soon people forget history especially when it's twisted out
-of-shape by the Bush White House.
Penny
penny
It wasn't a slight increase. At the end of 2001 a half a million
peole were displaced in Mazir - i - Sharif alone. 160,000 of those
managed to get into Pakistan even though at that time the border was
closed to more refugees. And Mazir-i-Sharif was only one city.
I gave you a URL in the previous post to give you some idea of the
displacement at the time. Surely you remember the constant stream
of Afghans lining the roads to Pakistan and Iran trying to get out of
the country after the bombing had reduced much of the place to rubble.
Remember that during the first four weeks of the war Bush was
responsible for dropping half a million tons of bombs on Afghanistan,
20 kilos for every man, woman and child according to
Dr. H. Caldicott, Page X11 (Introduction) The New Nuclear Danger.
The bombs that sent the people running were:
~ bunker busters,
~ cluster bombs ( prohibited by the Geneva Protocol)
~ daisy cutters -- 15,000 pound fuel air explosives which can have
the effect of a tactical nuke without the radiation
~ unmanned drones
~ carpet bombing - indiscriminate bombing
( Dr. H. Caldicott)
______________________________
How soon people forget history.
Penny
penny
Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity for all , not just the French!
It was good to see Sarkozy pay homage to the end of the absolute rule
of the monarchy in France , rather than eyeing up the bottoms of 16
year olds. ;-)
Penny
penny
>On Jul 13, 12:18�pm, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com> wrote:
>>
>> news:rk1l55pgbl3blk6h6...@4ax.com...
>>
>> > On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:36:57 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com>
>> > wrote:
>>>>>Penny wrote
> When has Canada ever been attacked !>
> When there is a real threat facing us like a Hitler in Europe I'll
> take up a gun myself. By Penny
>
>>
>> >>In what way, was Hitler a threat to Canada ?
He wasn't. Why do you think he was.?
>> >>When did German troops attakc Canada ?
They didn't. What makes you think they did?
>> >> � �Take as many screens as you need
You misread my statment at the beginning of this post you fool
Penny
penny
wrote:
>
>"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>news:c0te55pku3r6rg1q7...@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> In retrospect, Ike had more reason than most to see the futility of
>> war, Barry.
>>
>> Penny
>>
>
>No one disagrees that war is futile, except maybe those who are attacked and
>need to defend themselves.
Ah, a light through yonder window breaks. . .
>The problem with penny is that in her ignorance of history, she doesn't know
>that whenever one group of people consider another ripe for the picking,
>they will start a war.
The grandstander takes over.
>We don't even have to look very far. The 20th Century is full of groups and
>countries that attacked their neighbors.
Right, big bad Bush who " shocked and awed" Iraq.
And it wasn't even his neighbour. Still he must have drooled at the
thought of all that oil in the hands of big American and world
corporations..
Too bad BushCo was stymied.because bombing, violence, corruption, and
a huge crime wave have turned Iraq's once successful oil business
into a flailing mess.
The oil spoils of war have slipped away from BushCo and their greed
has come to naught except for their obscene slaughter, maiming,
torture, displacement of more than four million people.
All that futility. And BushCo is still walking free instead of
facing an Inquisition.
>Hell, there was even a war caused by a Soccer game.
And with your armament of guns and your mouth I'm sure you start
mini-wars wherever you go . Hell, you have the capability of starting
maxi wars in your own neighborhood with your combination of guns and
mouth.
>Sadly, stupid and ignorant Kumbaya chanters like our henny-penny imagine
>that if you get rid of your soldiers, then every one else will too.
> Won't happen.
That one neuron of yours is in a serious state of galloping
degeneration.
Penny
SaPeIsMa
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:11:31 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPe...@HotMail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>>news:c0te55pku3r6rg1q7...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> In retrospect, Ike had more reason than most to see the futility of
>>> war, Barry.
>>>
>>> Penny
>>>
>>
>>No one disagrees that war is futile, except maybe those who are attacked
>>and
>>need to defend themselves.
>
>
> Ah, a light through yonder window breaks. . .
>
Too bad that the light didn't penetrate your thick skull
Apparently, your brain shuts down after 7 words...
>
>>The problem with penny is that in her ignorance of history, she doesn't
>>know
>>that whenever one group of people consider another ripe for the picking,
>>they will start a war.
>
>
> The grandstander takes over.
>
Clearly the light has stopped penetrating your skull
>
>>We don't even have to look very far. The 20th Century is full of groups
>>and
>>countries that attacked their neighbors.
>
>
> Right, big bad Bush who " shocked and awed" Iraq.
>
Which again demonstrates your ignorance
You CHOOSE to ignore the fact that Iraq had Invaded Kuwait..
Selective stupidity CLEARLY is your forte..
>
> And it wasn't even his neighbour. Still he must have drooled at the
> thought of all that oil in the hands of big American and world
> corporations..
>
See Invasion of Kuwait.
And while you're at it, tell us who is ACTUALLY getting Iraqi oil these days
?
(Take as many screens as you need)
<rest of ignorant rant snipped>
>
>
>>Hell, there was even a war caused by a Soccer game.
>
>
> And with your armament of guns and your mouth I'm sure you start
> mini-wars wherever you go . Hell, you have the capability of starting
> maxi wars in your own neighborhood with your combination of guns and
> mouth.
>
Which again shows what a stupid troll you really are
Guns don't cause wars
But well armed people and countries give thugs a pause about attacling them
A famous Roman wrote
"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
"If you want peace, prepare for war"
Only ignorati such as you ignore history and confuse what you would like
things to be with reality
>
>
>>Sadly, stupid and ignorant Kumbaya chanters like our henny-penny imagine
>>that if you get rid of your soldiers, then every one else will too.
>> Won't happen.
>
>
> That one neuron of yours is in a serious state of galloping
> degeneration.
>
Too bad that a single neuron in my head has more power than all the neurons
in yours
Which is why you want to peel potatoes with guns
Dave Smith
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:42:38 -0400, Dave Smith
> <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> penny wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You don't bomb the shite out of a country and displace more than two
>>> million people to get a few "Saudi nutbars" hiding out in the
>>> mountains. That was an obscene action.
>>
>> I am curious where you got that figure of 2 million displaces people
>> From what I have gathered, there were 3 million Afghan refugees in
>> Pakistan and 2 million in Iran. Another million left in the face of
>> American attacks... 1/5 the number that had already left. The number in
>> Pakistan, including those born over that 20 years, rose to 5 million.
>> Now there are 2 million, the rest having returned. So while there was a
>> slight increase in the number of refugees in 2001, a lot of them have
>> been able to return to Afghanistan, which would mean that those actions
>> actually made it safer for them to return home.
>
>
> It wasn't a slight increase. At the end of 2001 a half a million
> peole were displaced in Mazir - i - Sharif alone. 160,000 of those
> managed to get into Pakistan even though at that time the border was
> closed to more refugees. And Mazir-i-Sharif was only one city.
The increase was a fraction of the numbers that left because of the
soviet invasion and the ensuing civil war.
>
> I gave you a URL in the previous post to give you some idea of the
> displacement at the time. Surely you remember the constant stream
> of Afghans lining the roads to Pakistan and Iran trying to get out of
> the country after the bombing had reduced much of the place to rubble.
Of course there would be a line up. The border guards would be shaking
down all those refugees for bribes. That is the nature of their culture.
> The bombs that sent the people running were:
>
> ~ bunker busters,
> ~ cluster bombs ( prohibited by the Geneva Protocol)
Which protocol would that be? I looked but the best I could find was an
anti clusterbomb site that said:
"No treaty specifically regulates cluster munitions, but these weapons
raise concerns under existing international humanitarian law (IHL).
Additional Protocol I of 1977 to the Geneva Conventions offers
internationally accepted legal standards for evaluating the problems
posed by cluster bombs. Although not all states are party to this
treaty, the articles discussed below are considered customary law, that
is, legal norms deriving from common state practice that bind all
nations regardless of specific legal commitments."
http://www.stopclustermunitions.org/the-problem/history-harm/?id=108
> ~ daisy cutters -- 15,000 pound fuel air explosives which can have
> the effect of a tactical nuke without the radiation
A daisy cutter is nothing like a nuke.
> ~ unmanned drones
> ~ carpet bombing - indiscriminate bombing
No one is questioning that they used air strikes. I have posted here in
the past about how special forces went it and targeted enemy positions
for sir strikes. I would question that the threat of US actions caused
that much more displacement than the previous 20+ years of conflict.
SaPeIsMa
How dare you question ANYTHING that henny-penny believes
If she believes it, IT MUST BE TRUE, EVEN IF it's DEMONS RATABLY FALSE.
SaPeIsMa
"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > INDULGED in artistic creativeity
to form this message news:bapq55l0gmth7lh1v...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Jul 13, 12:18 pm, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com> wrote:
>>> "10x" <10x@telu�s.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:rk1l55pgbl3blk6h6...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> > On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:36:57 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>>>>SaPelsMa wrote:
>
>>>>>>Penny wrote
>
>
>> When has Canada ever been attacked !>
>> When there is a real threat facing us like a Hitler in Europe I'll
>> take up a gun myself. By Penny
>>
>
My paragraph was
+++++++++++++++++++++
+ "SaPeIsMa" <SaPe...@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:p4qdnYTFXtD5DcfX...@posted.cpinternet...
+ >
+ > In what way, was Hitler a threat to Canada ?
+ > When did German troops attakc Canada ?
+ > Take as many screens as you need
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As to henny-penny's claim about taking up a gun when Europe is next attacked
One has to wonder if she is even qualified to peel potatoes with or
without a gun.
(For those who don't know, henny-penny considers it a "killer" argument
to claim that you can't use a gun to peel potatoes)
>>>
>>> >>In what way, was Hitler a threat to Canada ?
>
>
> He wasn't. Why do you think he was.?
>
And yet someone else, 10x, a poster you read and respond to regularly,
answered this question two posts earlier with:
"German submarines sunk a large number of Canadian ships
on their way to Europe during World War II."
Apparently, henny-penny, your knowledge of history is just as minimal as
your knowledge of guns and their uses
But then, that seems to be consistently the case with you on ANY
subject.
Too bad, you have such a need to expose your abyssal ignorance
>
>
>>> >>When did German troops attack Canada ?
>
>
> They didn't. What makes you think they did?
>
Actually, submarine attacks on Canadian ships on the open sea is the same as
attacking Canada
And again you trip over your ignorance
>
>>> >> Take as many screens as you need
>
>
> You misread my statment at the beginning of this post you fool
>
No penny, I did NOT !
And the reason for it is simple
YOU CUT OUT ANY of your statements from this post and then modified mine
Which again, shows your dishonesty, stupidity, or both.
SaPeIsMa
"SaPeIsMa" <SaPe...@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:p4qdnYTFXtD5DcfX...@posted.cpinternet...
>
Interesting how henny-penny has shied away from responding to rest of my
response to her stupid, ignorant and prejudiced rant about guns, the NRA,
NRA members, and people in general who prefer freedom to slavery.
Talk about henny-penny being one of those "useful idiots" that Lenin
spoke about.
Maybe henny-penny needs to spend some time reading about all those ignorant
gun myths that she so believes
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf
Can't hurt to educate yourself, henny-penny
At least your reading this would demonstrate a variety of things
1) an open mind
2) the ability to face the truth
3) admit that you were wrong and misinformed all along
Or you can continue to play the ignorant turtle and bury your head up your
canal of ignorance, where you usually keep it.
Not to mention that it even debunks a lot of the ignorant myths that
henny-penny likes to spout about Canada, too...
Roy
> "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeI...@HotMail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:p4qdnYTFXtD5DcfX...@posted.cpinternet...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "penny" <gora...@sentex.net > wrote in message
> >news:79te55h317ptt8vq2...@4ax.com...
> >> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:32:54 GMT, 10x <10x@teluös.net> wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
BULLY
=
Dave Smith
>>> ~ unmanned drones
>>> ~ carpet bombing - indiscriminate bombing
>> No one is questioning that they used air strikes. I have posted here in
>> the past about how special forces went it and targeted enemy positions
>> for sir strikes. I would question that the threat of US actions caused
>> that much more displacement than the previous 20+ years of conflict.
>
>
> that not covered in her relative morality philosophy?
>
Probably not. It might support the idea that the atrocities committed by
the Taliban and al Queda have more to do with the Afghan refugees than
the coalition's efforts to oust an exceptionally brutal regime.
Duncan Patton a Campbell
Hmmm... better 'im ogling 16 yo bottoms than 6, which seems to
be the alternative with that kinda pay. Only in "decadent western"
countries is a 16 yo still a child. And if call a 16 yo a child,
then mebbe bein' a pedo isn't so bad.... at least that seems to be
how the rationale hereabouts.
Dhu
Glen Matlock
> Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity for all , not just the French!
>
> It was good to see Sarkozy pay homage to the end of the absolute rule
> of the monarchy in France , rather than eyeing up the bottoms of 16
> year olds. ;-)
>
> Penny
>
>
It's funny how the French were so detested by the American right during the
time that followed 9/11, mainly because they dared to doubt the words of
Bush's administration. The big Bill O'Reilly boycott of French products was
so bloody funny. He claimed it to be a success, but all the while the US
Census reported that US imports of goods from France had actually increased
during that period. Not only that, but the Census also showed that US
tourism to France had increased as well!
http://mediamatters.org/research/200508020002
He also cited a non-existant newspaper as proof.
I think that the imports went up because the Americans who were seen pouring
French wine down the drain in protest of the French, first had to purchase it!
Now that Sarkozy, a right winger by European standards but hardly one by
American standards, is in power, the American right seem to be quoting what he
says! They actually like the French!
penny
<glenm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>penny wrote
>> Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity for all , not just the French!
>>
>> It was good to see Sarkozy pay homage to the end of the absolute rule
>> of the monarchy in France , rather than eyeing up the bottoms of 16
>> year olds. ;-)
>>
>> Penny
>>
>>
>
>It's funny how the French were so detested by the American right during the
>time that followed 9/11, mainly because they dared to doubt the words of
>Bush's administration. The big Bill O'Reilly boycott of French products was
>so bloody funny.
It was hysterical. Their comments were beyond belief for anyone with
an ounce of sanity.
> He claimed it to be a success, but all the while the US
>Census reported that US imports of goods from France had actually increased
>during that period. Not only that, but the Census also showed that US
>tourism to France had increased as well!
>
>http://mediamatters.org/research/200508020002
>
>He also cited a non-existant newspaper as proof.
Thats why he's earned the name "O' Lie-lly !
>
>
>I think that the imports went up because the Americans who were seen pouring
>French wine down the drain in protest of the French, first had to purchase it!
HaHa ! I hadn't thought ot that ! :-)
>
>
>Now that Sarkozy, a right winger by European standards but hardly one by
>American standards, is in power, the American right seem to be quoting what he
>says! They actually like the French!
Since the American Rights' brains move according to their guts it's
not surprising they like the French at this moment in time when
Sarkozy has called for an outright ban on the burqa.
Penny
Glen Matlock
I like the looks of a woman naked, or in a Bikini swim suit, and I even find a
Hijab to look cute, depending on the woman, of course. However, I was getting
my drivers license renewed the other day and there was a woman wearing a
Bhurka in the line up. I have no idea how they treated her.
I should have stuck around just to see.
Dave Smith
> It's funny how the French were so detested by the American right during the
> time that followed 9/11, mainly because they dared to doubt the words of
> Bush's administration. The big Bill O'Reilly boycott of French products was
> so bloody funny. He claimed it to be a success, but all the while the US
> Census reported that US imports of goods from France had actually increased
> during that period. Not only that, but the Census also showed that US
> tourism to France had increased as well!
After the crap hit the fan over the publication of the Danish cartoons
Moslems called for a boycott of Danish products. I made a point of
buying Danish products and boycotted businesses run by Moslems.
Glen Matlock
The French were really good to Libya when I was there in '89 and Reagan bombed
them. Their air force, flying Mirages, met the F-111's out of the UK over
French air space and essentially said "no go", so the Yanks had to fly around
France to bomb Libya. I was in Marseilles at the time, and we thought that
WW3 was breaking out!
So, what did the French get for their "capitulation' with Libya?
In 1990 five car bombs went off in Paris, the source? Libya.
Assholes both.
mastermind
> Since the American Rights' brains move according to their guts it's
> not surprising they like the French at this moment in time when
> Sarkozy has called for an outright ban on the burqa.
Sarkozy is one crafty country leader. He is going to extend a hand of friendship to the U.S.
while his country is actually conspiring with other European powers to build a military that
will challenge the power of American military and defence and security forces.
Europe has seen, as so many other countries around the globe have seen, that the United
States can no longer be trusted to be the globe's lone superpower. There aggression grows
with their power. No better time for Sarkozy to get cozy with the U.S. than now, when
they're broke and other countries are calling in their loans.
Sarkozy is no dumb leader. The Americans are not as bright as most French and they won't see
this one coming.
mastermind
> Glen Matlock wrote:
>
> > It's funny how the French were so detested by the American right during the
> > time that followed 9/11, mainly because they dared to doubt the words of
> > Bush's administration. The big Bill O'Reilly boycott of French products was
> > so bloody funny. He claimed it to be a success, but all the while the US
> > Census reported that US imports of goods from France had actually increased
> > during that period. Not only that, but the Census also showed that US
> > tourism to France had increased as well!
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4a61d9dd$0$19663$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
> After the crap hit the fan over the publication of the Danish cartoons
> Moslems called for a boycott of Danish products. I made a point of
> buying Danish products and boycotted businesses run by Moslems.
Sure you did. How many moslem businesses did you frequent BEFORE the stupid cartoon came
out?
mastermind
> >news:ssn2655fgbu3ib8m7...@4ax.com...
> >> Since the American Rights' brains move according to their guts it's
> >> not surprising they like the French at this moment in time when
> >> Sarkozy has called for an outright ban on the burqa.
"mastermind" <maste...@work.now> wrote:
> >Sarkozy is one crafty country leader. He is going to extend a hand of friendship to the
U.S.
> >while his country is actually conspiring with other European powers to build a military
that
> >will challenge the power of American military and defence and security forces.
> >
> >Europe has seen, as so many other countries around the globe have seen, that the United
> >States can no longer be trusted to be the globe's lone superpower. There aggression grows
> >with their power. No better time for Sarkozy to get cozy with the U.S. than now, when
> >they're broke and other countries are calling in their loans.
> >
> >Sarkozy is no dumb leader. The Americans are not as bright as most French and they won't
see
> >this one coming.
"E. Barry Bruyea" <lobb...@goaway.com> wrote in message
> Maybe you should spend some time reading French History. They've been
> poor allies for most of their history and their fellow members of the
> E.U. know that and wouldn't count on them for squat in a real pinch.
> Vichy proved what they really were, and are.
Things have sure changed, haven't they? A new "European Union" that now is a real threat to
American (and Canadian) trade, world alliances, and soon military strength. And the
Americans love the guy! Never overestimate the intelligence of the American public.
10x
wrote:
>Sarkozy is no dumb leader. The Americans are not as bright as most French and they won't see
>this one coming.
The U.S. of A. has kicked the Bosch out of France twice. Apparently
the Germans improved the blood lines in France and the newer
generations are smarter....
penny
wrote:
>
>"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>news:ssn2655fgbu3ib8m7...@4ax.com...
>> Since the American Rights' brains move according to their guts it's
>> not surprising they like the French at this moment in time when
>> Sarkozy has called for an outright ban on the burqa.
>
>
>Sarkozy is one crafty country leader. He is going to extend a hand of friendship to the U.S.
>while his country is actually conspiring with other European powers to build a military that
>will challenge the power of American military and defence and security forces.
It will certainly bring a balance of power to the global military
arena and will stop the US from often dominating and taking over the
role of the UN.
It might also stop these interminable vetoes on Resolutions against
Israel for flagrant abuses of military power and stabilize relations
in the UN.
>
>Europe has seen, as so many other countries around the globe have seen, that the United
>States can no longer be trusted to be the globe's lone superpower. There aggression grows
>with their power. No better time for Sarkozy to get cozy with the U.S. than now, when
>they're broke and other countries are calling in their loans.
Now that Obama leads the US, things will not be as lawless as they
were under Bush. And he is making large cuts in the military. .
Unlike Bush Obama knows he can't afford to have the Pentagon as the
world's largest employer when people in the US are going hungry or
going bankrupt because they can't afford to pay their medical bills..
.
Still, the world will be a better and safer place with a balance of
military power which will bring with it a balance of diplomatic power
that will best serve the UN.
>
>Sarkozy is no dumb leader. The Americans are not as bright as most French and they won't see
>this one coming.
You should read the wonderful American Independents. There you will
find some of the best Journatlistic commentators in the world as well
as some of that disappearing breed, the investigative journalist. No
dumbness there.
Still, they are the elite in Journalism .
Penny
penny
wrote:
And how many Danish ones for that matter!
Penny