The Nizkor Project uses personal attacks instead of facts and logic (was Re: FlubberGut cuts and runs... again. Bellville moans.)
Wallace Cleaver
An important famous quote which applies to the following "debate";
"What sort of truth is it that needs protection?"
Auberon Waugh - The London Daily Telegraph - May 9, 1992
Some similar thoughts;
"What sort of truth is it that needs protection under penalty of
prosecution and imprisonment?"
"What sort of truth is it that needs protection by using personal
attacks, intimidation or outright harassment?"
>On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:18:15 GMT, <HY8p9.7937$WG5.11...@news.nnrp.ca>
>kmc...@vex.net (Ken McVay) wrote:
>
>>In article <JQN30L0437539.3214236111@anonymous.poster>,
>>Rabbi Epstein <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>>How is seeking to have people imprisoned, have their speaking
>>>engagements canceled, having their internet connections terminated,
>>>or having them arrested etc. being "Jews participating in the
>>>democratic process?" Those aren't the works of those who want
>>>"to participate in the democratic process" for it is more reminiscent
>>>of a totalitarian regime.
>>
>>Why do you feel that Jews should not be permitted to participate in
>>the democratic process?
>>
>>Quit running from the question, and deal with it, fatso.
>
>Why is it you can only respond with personal attacks? Anyone who
>has the truth does not need to resort to the immature attacks
>you make and as for your question; "Why do you feel that Jews
>should not be permitted to participate in the democratic
>process?"; it was already answered.
>
>I stated before and will again state; "How is seeking to have
>people imprisoned, have their speaking engagements canceled,
>having their internet connections terminated, or having them
>arrested etc. being "Jews participating in the democratic
>process?" Those aren't the works of those who want "to participate
>in the democratic process" for it is more reminiscent of a
>totalitarian regime.
>
>I now ask; "Who is the one who is cutting and running?"
>
>I now ask you directly; "Is the following activity which you,
>B'nai Brith, and ADL engage in what you consider _Jews
>participating in the democratic process_?
Here is documentation which proves McVay's statement; "Jews
participating in the democratic process" is actually un-democratic
and the "democratic process is not; "hav[ing] people imprisoned,
hav[ing] their speaking engagements canceled, having their internet
connections terminated, or having them arrested etc";
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9ureg9%241c70%241%40news.tht.net&output=gplain
From: kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay, OBC)
Subject: Re: CCRA CHEATED OUT OF REVENUE BY NIZKOR
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:06:01 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: The Nizkor Project, http://www.nizkor.org/
Message-ID: <9ureg9$1c70$1...@news.tht.net>
...the ADL, and BB isn't a "civilian spy arm" for anyone.
Provide evidence that BB or the ADL have "destroy free speech."
...you have no evidence whatsoever that anyone at B'nai Brith
Canada, or B'nai B'rith, or the ADL is collecting any
information whatsoever on anyone posting to UseNet..."
<end of cited text>
It should be noted a "democratic process" is not telling lies
which Ken McVay told above and which are exposed below.
The breakdown of lies told by McVay from the above post;
A) Lie number one espoused by Ken McVay;
"..the ADL, and BB isn't a "civilian spy arm" for anyone. ... you have
no evidence whatsoever that anyone at B'nai Brith Canada, or B'nai B'rith,
or the ADL is collecting any information whatsoever on anyone posting to
UseNet."
B) Lie number two espoused by Ken McVay;
"Provide evidence that BB or the ADL have "destroy free speech."
When I expose McVay in his lies for his MASTERS the B'nai Brith and its
ADL you all should see how some of McVay's lies overlap.
LET US BEGIN!!
This material counters;
A) Lie number one espoused by Ken McVay;
"..the ADL, and BB isn't a "civilian spy arm" for anyone. ... you have
no evidence whatsoever that anyone at B'nai Brith Canada, or B'nai B'rith,
or the ADL is collecting any information whatsoever on anyone posting to
UseNet."
http://www.adl.org/focus_sheets/focus_overview.html
"Fighting anti-Semitism and bigotry here and abroad, the Anti-Defamation
League probes the roots of hatred against Jews and serves as a public
resource for government, media, law enforcement agencies and the public at
large.
ANTI-SEMITISM, BIGOTRY, RACISM
ADL is America's prime resource for information on organized bigotry. The
League collects and assesses a vast amount of information on anti-Semites,
racists and extremists. After carefully evaluating information, ADL
disseminates that information through books, periodicals, videos, reports
and other materials. The League also monitors haters in cyberspace.."
<end>
Is not USENET "cyberspace"?
http://www.adl.org/focus_sheets/focus_internet.html
"HATE ON THE INTERNET
The Internet presents ADL with new opportunities and challenges.
With its information-filled Web site, ADL now reaches more people than
ever -- opinion molders, the media, law enforcement...
At the same time, hate groups have taken to the Internet and World
Wide Web to propagandize and proselytize. Anti-Semites and racists are
rapidly expanding their use of the Internet, communicating with each
other, preaching to the vast majority of people who do not share their
beliefs, raising funds and threatening their enemies. ADL monitors and
documents hundreds of extremist Web sites as well as dozens of e-mail
mailing lists, newsgroups and chat rooms...." <end>
Question for The Nizkor Project's director Ken McVay; "Hey Ken, did you
notice your MASTERS used the term "newsgroups"? That kind of deep sixes
your claim of: "you have no evidence whatsoever that anyone at B'nai Brith
Canada, or B'nai B'rith, or the ADL is collecting any information
whatsoever on anyone posting to UseNet.." It is so easy to catch you lying
for your MASTERS! Is not USENET the same as newsgroups?"
Remember everyone when you read and re-read the above and what follows as
well that Ken McVay, the director of The Nizkor Project, is on record as
stating; "...the ADL, and BB isn't a "civilian spy arm... In other words,
you have no evidence whatsoever that anyone at B'nai Brith Canada, or
B'nai B'rith, or the ADL is collecting any information whatsoever on
anyone posting to UseNet. Thank you for making that clear." Message-ID:
<9ureg9$1c70$1...@news.tht.net>
http://www.adl.org/presrele/ASUS_12/2609_12.asp
"[A]nti-Semites and racists are using the Internet to recruit new members,
get their message out and open new channels of communication among
sympathizers, a report just released by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL)
reveals. Hate Group Recruitment On the Internet shows how extremists are
exploiting the technology of the Internet, including the World Wide Web
and USENET, to attract supporters ... the ADL leaders said. "The message
is clear: we must monitor it..." <end>
Looks like McVay is failing miserably at trying to cover his master's
agenda! McVay did state (as detailed above): ""[Y]ou have no evidence
whatsoever that anyone at B'nai Brith Canada, or B'nai B'rith, or the ADL
is collecting any information whatsoever on anyone posting to UseNet."
http://www.models-research.ie/publications/art/99-6.html
... Usenet newsgroups such as alt.politics.white-power offer an
opportunity to recruit new members. Postings from newcomers can be
followed up with contact by direct email to encourage the newcomers to
feel part of the racist community. ...the Anti-Defamation League (ADL),
monitor and document hate activities on the Internet." <end>
http://www.adl.org/mwd/m1.htm
". Important! More and more people are erroneously coming to think that
all information can be found on the World Wide Web. It cannot. Although
there are a number of members of the militia movement active in Usenet
..." <end>
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/internet.html
Usenet newsgroups-on-line community discussion bulletin boards-also
contribute to the proliferation of publicly visible anti-Semitic hate
on-line. Anyone with access can read and send messages to the newsgroups.
To read or post messages to a group, the user simply uses the newsreader
program provided by most Internet services. The number of messages posted
to the newsgroups is staggering; upwards of 60,000,000 a year and growing!
Considering these numbers, it is not surprising that tens of thousands of
anti-Semitic rants show up each year and 1996 was no exception. Unlike the
World Wide Web, where the user must seek out a site, haters on the Usenet
can send their messages, unsolicited, to any group. ... Newsgroup hate
messages are more like anonymous phone calls or letters that can be sent
simultaneously to hundreds or thousands of people. (To be consistent with
past practice, the ADL Audit counts such simultaneous hate messages as one
incident.) ... <end>
Notice the mention who keeps count of what is posted in USENET? Its the
ADL!!
http://people.brandeis.edu/~anti-defamation/committee/Hillel_monitoring.htm
l Do Your Student Members Want to Help ADL Fight Hate on the Internet?
As a vehicle for spreading hate, the Internet is more powerful than
anything extremists of past decades could have imagined. Using the World
Wide Web, electronic bulletin boards, chat rooms and E-mail, anti-Semites
and racists voice their ideas, hoping to recruit new supporters. Bigots
also employ the Internet to communicate with each other. Often, extremists
invade the space of unsuspecting Internet users to spread their message.
Propagandists send unsolicited E-mail messages to thousands, post
off-topic messages to USENET newsgroups, and seek to dominate the bulletin
boards at mainstream Web sites.
...ADL continuously monitors and documents Internet hate...
THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE IS SEEKING STUDENT MEMBERS OF HILLEL WHO ARE
INTERESTED IN HELPING US MONITOR HATE ON THE INTERNET.
If your students are interested, all they need is a computer with Internet
access and the desire to volunteer time. Volunteers can monitor the
Internet on their own, wherever and whenever they choose....
The Anti-Defamation League is requesting that volunteers monitor
publicly-available information on the Internet only. We are particularly
interested in finding out about threats of action, announcements of
upcoming events, specific information about extremist individuals, written
attacks on well-known Jewish institutions or individuals, bigoted comments
on current events, and links to new hateful Web sites. Particular areas of
the Internet that are of concern to us are Web-based chat rooms and
discussion boards, Internet Relay Chat rooms, and USENET newsgroups. As
appropriate, some volunteers may be asked to look at specific chat rooms,
bulletin boards, or USENET newsgroups in addition to general monitoring
duties. ... You and your students can play an important part by helping
ADL. Please contact us today! <end>
Translating in general; "The Anti-Defamation League is... interested in
finding out about threats of action, announcements of upcoming events,
written attacks on well-known Jewish institutions or individuals, bigoted
comments on current events..." which tells me that they think they are
above honest and open scrutiny. I will not defend true hate speech but
what constitutes hate speech to this crowd is being critical in any manner
of their agenda.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This material counters;
B) Lie number two espoused by Ken McVay;
"Provide evidence that BB or the ADL have "destroy free speech."
www.media-awareness.ca/eng/issues/internet/resource/matas.htm
By David Matas, Senior Legal Counsel
B'nai Brith Canada, 1997
"Posting to combat Holocaust denial is best exemplified by the Nizkor
project led by Ken McVay. The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith
Canada has a site more general in nature about combatting anti-Semitism.
... Another form of non-legal response is withdrawal of services. Access
to the internet requires an internet access provider. Internet access
providers are commercial enterprises which are free to offer, or to
decline to offer their services to whomever they want, provided they are
non-discriminatory. ... One common technique for combatting hate speech is
approaching those who would provide a platform for hatemongers and asking
them to withdraw the platform... the League for Human Rights of B'nai
Brith Canada might ask the organization to withdraw the invitation,
explaining to them who the speaker is and why the invitation is
inappropriate. There is no reason why similar techniques could not be
employed with phone companies and internet access providers." <end>
I now ask; "HOW MANY OF MCVAY'S LIES WERE EXPOSED IN THE ABOVE MATERIAL?"
More documented examples of B'nai Brith's waging wars against free speech
and debate;
http://bnaibrith.org/pr/brazil2.html
From the World's Largest Jewish Organization
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
B'nai B'rith
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LANDMARK COURT DECISION CONVICTS HOLOCAUST DENIER IN BRAZIL
Washington, D.C. (November 7, 1996) -- For the first time in Latin America
a Holocaust denier has been found guilty and sentenced to two years in
prison. The landmark decision of the High Court of Justice in the
southernmost Brazilian state of Rio Grande do Sul reversed a lower court
ruling and resulted in the conviction of Siegfried Ellwanger on grounds
that he violated the nation's constitution and penal code.
The president of B'nai B'rith in Brazil hailed the decision. "Holocaust
deniers such as Ellwanger seek to encourage racial and religious divisions
that are not compatible with our democratic society," said Abrao
Lowenthal. B'nai B'rith along with other Jewish groups in Brazil brought
Ellwanger to trial.
Because Ellwanger had no previous criminal record the court waived his
prison sentence and ordered him to perform three years of community
service and ordered him to stop publishing his racist material. Under the
ruling, Ellwanger's books will be confiscated and banned. Ellwanger, who
writes under the name "S.E. Castan," has written or published 13
anti-Semitic books in Portuguese including the infamous The Elders of the
Protocols of Zion and Henry Ford's The International Jew. One of
Ellwanger's books is titled The Holocaust: Jewish or German."
The Jewish community of the state of Rio Grande do Sul, which brought the
case to court, was pleased with the verdict. According to their attorney
Helio Santana, a B'nai B'rith member, "Ellwanger has denied the existence
of concentration camps as well as the numbers of people who died at the
hands of Nazis and their collaborators. He tried to twist reality by
stating that the Holocaust was a big lie."
Rio Grande do Sul is one of the wealthiest states in Brazil. It is home to
a sizeable German population and has been the scene of persisting neo-Nazi
and skinhead activities. There are 12,500 Jews in the state, mostly in the
capital. Ellwanger, who is Brazilian-born, is part of a racist, separatist
movement which wants the state to secede from Brazil in order to isolate
itself from other ethnic groups in the country.
B'nai B'rith International President Tommy P. Baer, a lawyer based in
Richmond, Virginia, hailed the decision. "This critical legal decision has
important ramifications for Brazil and all of Latin America. By punishing
this hatemonger, Brazil is working to meet a standard of decency which
will not tolerate bigotry and hatred."
The world's oldest and largest Jewish organization, B'nai B'rith has
members in 56 countries including Brazil and others throughout Latin
America.
<end>
The above was quoted in full too!
How about this gem which makes what Ken McVay said (as documented above)
look like the liar he truly is; "Provide evidence that BB or the ADL have
"destroy free speech." Use your free speech to do so."? Does the following
contradict what McVay said? Yes it does!
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/press/vancouver-sun.980408.html The Vancouver Sun
April 8, 1998
BC tel asked to cut off net Nazis' connection
William Boei, Sun Business Reporter Vancouver Sun
[...]
Fairview hosts a group of national and international "hate sites.."
... The propaganda they spread on the Internet rarely fails to get a rise
from Jewish and anti-racist groups. This time, a Winnipeg-based branch of
the B'nai Brith's League for Human Rights and Vancouver's Canadian
Anti-Racism Education and Research Society are asking BC Tel to cut off
Fairview's network connection to the Internet. ... Ken McVay, a British
Columbian who runs the Nizkor Project, a massive on- line archive that
documents and refutes ... <name calling is not refuting> ... McVay has
been fighting hate speech on the Net for six years, compiling archives
<files on private citizens>, offering to establish links between hate
sites and Nizkor's Web site, and responding to virtually every hate post
that appears on the Internet's Usenet section <personal attacks are not
valid responses>. ... "My whole agenda is to try and remove their market,
as it were," McVay said. "They have an agenda to sell. If, by
demonstrating that they are lying <you're the one who has been caught
lying!!> about a specific issue, I can remove a few hundred people from
their potential market place, then I've done them some harm." ... B'nai
Brith, incidentally, covers both ends of the anti-Net-Nazi spectrum. It is
asking BC Tel to sever Fairview from the Net, and it collects donations
for the Nizkor Project." <end>
Comments between < and > were mine!
How many lies is Ken McVay caught in? I show facts and the documents which
prove McVay for what he is and all he can do is make ad hominem personal
attacks and spread lies and falsehoods about those who steadfastly expose
his lies and his evil agenda.
Everyone reading all of the documented material above which resoundingly
proves Ken McVay being a liar take note of how he replies to this very
post. You will see him attack the messenger and yet you will never see him
refute the documented facts on a point for point basis.
All materials were previously posted by Doc Tavish
>You are aligned with people who are documented as; "seeking
>to have people imprisoned, have their speaking engagements
>canceled, having their internet connections terminated, or
>having them arrested etc." Is this sort of activity what you
>call "participating in the democratic process?"
>
>Your making insults and personal attacks regarding serious
>free speech issues shows everyone what sort of person you
>are and it reflects on B'nai Brith and ADL seeing how they
>know and approve of what you do and how you do it. If B'nai
>Brith did not approve of your methods they wouldn't still
>remain your funding arm.
>
>If you think by making personal attacks against people who
>state hard facts and show documentation to prove it then
>you are proving false to the sig line you like using. So
>far you have not applied any facts or logic in your replies
>as your sig line quoted below shows;
>
>"...the antisemite is immune to refutation from either facts or logic.
> An antisemite has chosen to live in hatred, without regard to either
> facts or logic." (Matas, David. Bloody Speech, p. 37)
> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org
>
>You are the one who is; "immune to refutation from either facts or
>logic" and you're the one who hates. If B'nai Brith had any sense at
>all they would see all the ill will you generate with your nasty
>replies when you are confronted with fact and logic. Your damage
>control is worse than that of another liar did for another liar and
>that is what James Carville did for Bill Clinton.
>
>>Bradbury: http://nizkor.org/hweb/people/b/bradbury-scott/
>
>I see you still defame people with the files you keep on
>individuals who are apparently on B'nai Brith's hit list.
McVay certainly proves false to using fact and logic and in this
post alone all one can see is personal attacks and his link to
lies, smear, innuendo and a failed lawsuit against a person.
>Once again; I won't be rude and I will say SHALOM.
>
> Rabbi Benjamin Epstein
One doesn't have to be rude or snide when one has the truth
and the documentation to back it up. It is only people who are
desperate and can't explain away the evidence who have to resort
to personal attacks as the only means of response. All of the
above is a lasting testimony to the methods The Nizkor Project and its
sponsors use. People should never forget such behavior and they
should note Ken McVay will never feel any shame for his behavior
in a public medium.
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
Susan Cohen
Wallace Cleaver wrote:
nothing truthful, snipped.
Ken McVay
Wallace BlatherBlubber Cleaver <WallyC...@hotmailSPAMmeNOT.com> wrote:
>I stated before and will again state; "How is seeking to have
>people imprisoned, have their speaking engagements canceled,
>having their internet connections terminated, or having them
>arrested etc. being "Jews participating in the democratic
>process?" Those aren't the works of those who want "to participate
>in the democratic process" for it is more reminiscent of a
>totalitarian regime.
In short, you do not want Jews to participate in the democratic
process. That means:
You do not want Jews to lobby government.
You do not want Jews to express their opinions as citizens.
You do not want Jews to express their opinions as consumers.
In fact, tubby, you don't want Jews to express their opinions at all,
do you?
That's the difference between us, blubberblather. I not only want you
to be free to express your opinions, I *demand* that you be free to do
so.
I *demand* that you have the right to lobby government, even though I
believe your ideas are an anathema to everything dear to our society,
or anyone else's.
I *demand* that you have the right to lobby business, and complain
about practices you do not like, even though I find you to be an
obnoxious example of human flotsam.
I *demand* that you have the right to express your opinion, as a
citizen and a consumer, even though I find you to be a distasteful
lump of excrement.
My ancestors fought and died so that trash like you could do these
things, and I am grateful to them. They made it possible for you to
demonstrate the moral bankruptcy of your lives and beliefs without
government interference, and I thank them for that.
Rather than create a society which would simply express its
loathing of everything you are and everything you stand for, they
created a society in which your ideas were granted - GRANTED - free
expression.
YOU, a White gutter-trash bigot of the worst order, were granted the
right to make an absolute ass of yourself whenever the spirit moved
you.
So, to, were the Jews granted all of these rights, and you, moron,
cannot remove them because you dislike how they choose to express
them.
Live with it, asshole.
--
Wallace Cleaver
>
>In article <3da57...@news2.uncensored-news.com>,
>Wallace BlatherBlubber Cleaver <WallyC...@hotmailSPAMmeNOT.com> wrote:
>
>>I stated before and will again state; "How is seeking to have
>>people imprisoned, have their speaking engagements canceled,
>>having their internet connections terminated, or having them
>>arrested etc. being "Jews participating in the democratic
>>process?" Those aren't the works of those who want "to participate
>>in the democratic process" for it is more reminiscent of a
>>totalitarian regime.
Notice that Ken McVay deleted my whole body of proofs.
Notice that Ken McVay changed the subject title.
Notice I won't delete one bit of Ken McVay's diversion below and I will
leave it fully intact so everyone can compare his reply to what I actually
posted which I will restore in full beneath his weak damage control so
everyone may see who is trying to deny who the rights to the demaocratic
process.
Notice who relies on ad hominem personal attacks and smear and notice who
uses facts and logic and then decide who is the truth teller and who is
seeking to divert and deceive. McVay positively can't refute what I post
on a point by p;oint basis.
Here is McVay uncut;
Here is what I posted uncut and in full and compare what I posted below
to how Ken McVay replied above and everyone make their judgments based on
fact instead of knee jerk emotion.
What I posted;
<START>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,can.general
Subject: The Nizkor Project uses personal attacks instead of facts and
logic (was Re: FlubberGut cuts and runs... again. Bellville moans.)
From: WallyC...@hotmailSPAMmeNOT.com (Wallace Cleaver)
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (x86 32bit)
Message-ID: <3da57...@news2.uncensored-news.com>
Date: 10 Oct 2002 13:25:24 +0100
On 10 Oct 2002 07:45:38 -0000, <K5PJ46ZY3753...@anonymous.poster>
Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header (Rabbi Epstein) wrote:
An important famous quote which applies to the following "debate";
"What sort of truth is it that needs protection?"
Auberon Waugh - The London Daily Telegraph - May 9, 1992
Some similar thoughts;
"What sort of truth is it that needs protection under penalty of
prosecution and imprisonment?"
"What sort of truth is it that needs protection by using personal
attacks, intimidation or outright harassment?"
>On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:18:15 GMT, <HY8p9.7937$WG5.11...@news.nnrp.ca>
>kmc...@vex.net (Ken McVay) wrote:
>
>>In article <JQN30L0437539.3214236111@anonymous.poster>,
>>Rabbi Epstein <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>>How is seeking to have people imprisoned, have their speaking
>>>engagements canceled, having their internet connections terminated,
>>>or having them arrested etc. being "Jews participating in the
>>>democratic process?" Those aren't the works of those who want
>>>"to participate in the democratic process" for it is more reminiscent
>>>of a totalitarian regime.
>>
>>Why do you feel that Jews should not be permitted to participate in
>>the democratic process?
>>
>>Quit running from the question, and deal with it, fatso.
>
>Why is it you can only respond with personal attacks? Anyone who
>has the truth does not need to resort to the immature attacks
>you make and as for your question; "Why do you feel that Jews
>should not be permitted to participate in the democratic
>process?"; it was already answered.
>
>I stated before and will again state; "How is seeking to have
>people imprisoned, have their speaking engagements canceled,
>having their internet connections terminated, or having them
>arrested etc. being "Jews participating in the democratic
>process?" Those aren't the works of those who want "to participate
>in the democratic process" for it is more reminiscent of a
>totalitarian regime.
>
<end of cited text>
LET US BEGIN!!
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/internet.html
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://bnaibrith.org/pr/brazil2.html
<end>
[...]
>You are aligned with people who are documented as; "seeking
>to have people imprisoned, have their speaking engagements
>canceled, having their internet connections terminated, or
>having them arrested etc." Is this sort of activity what you
>call "participating in the democratic process?"
>
>Your making insults and personal attacks regarding serious
>free speech issues shows everyone what sort of person you
>are and it reflects on B'nai Brith and ADL seeing how they
>know and approve of what you do and how you do it. If B'nai
>Brith did not approve of your methods they wouldn't still
>remain your funding arm.
>
>If you think by making personal attacks against people who
>state hard facts and show documentation to prove it then
>you are proving false to the sig line you like using. So
>far you have not applied any facts or logic in your replies
>as your sig line quoted below shows;
>
>"...the antisemite is immune to refutation from either facts or logic.
> An antisemite has chosen to live in hatred, without regard to either
> facts or logic." (Matas, David. Bloody Speech, p. 37)
> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org
>
>You are the one who is; "immune to refutation from either facts or
>logic" and you're the one who hates. If B'nai Brith had any sense at
>all they would see all the ill will you generate with your nasty
>replies when you are confronted with fact and logic. Your damage
>control is worse than that of another liar did for another liar and
>that is what James Carville did for Bill Clinton.
>
>>Bradbury: http://nizkor.org/hweb/people/b/bradbury-scott/
>
>I see you still defame people with the files you keep on
>individuals who are apparently on B'nai Brith's hit list.
McVay certainly proves false to using fact and logic and in this
post alone all one can see is personal attacks and his link to
lies, smear, innuendo and a failed lawsuit against a person.
>Once again; I won't be rude and I will say SHALOM.
>
> Rabbi Benjamin Epstein
One doesn't have to be rude or snide when one has the truth
and the documentation to back it up. It is only people who are
desperate and can't explain away the evidence who have to resort
to personal attacks as the only means of response. All of the
above is a lasting testimony to the methods The Nizkor Project and its
sponsors use. People should never forget such behavior and they
should note Ken McVay will never feel any shame for his behavior
in a public medium.
<STOP>
Watch McVay again avoid the proofs that condemn his a liar and
as a person who takes part in attempting to deny others their
particiapation in the democratic process.
Wallace Cleaver
>
>
>
>Wallace Cleaver wrote:
>
>nothing truthful, snipped.
If that were true then why did you delete all the text instead of refuting it
on a point by point basis which would relly make me look bad? I will make you
really look bad now because I restore what you deleted and I will challenge
you to show where there is "nothing truthful" in what I posted.
<START>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,can.general
Subject: The Nizkor Project uses personal attacks instead of facts and logic
(was Re: FlubberGut cuts and runs... again. Bellville moans.)
From: WallyC...@hotmailSPAMmeNOT.com (Wallace Cleaver)
Message-ID: <3da57...@news2.uncensored-news.com>
<end of cited text>
LET US BEGIN!!
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/internet.html
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://bnaibrith.org/pr/brazil2.html
<end>
[...]
<STOP>
Now show where "nothing truthful" was posted. You can't do it Susan
and once again you prove before all onlookers how your kind are
self-delusional.
Un-named Student
WallyC...@hotmailSPAMmeNOT.com (Wallace Cleaver) wrote:
If Ken McVay is the best Public Relations Agent B'nai Brith can
hire then it is no wonder why Jews are disliked and distrusted
by so many people. If McVay has to resort to the tactics he does
above as a quasi spokesperson for B'nai Brith then B'nai Brith
is certainly losing its stance in the world community.