long guns the weapon of choice for estranged male partners
Kelly Bert Manning
Living in one of the small minority of Canadian homes with long guns predicts a
5 times higher rate of suicide completion, for the adults and teenage chidren.
While that may sound like a so what Darwin Award living in a gun home in Canada
also predicts a 3 times higher rate of being a victim of domestic homicide.
The success of gun registration and control in Canada has reduced the butchers
bill of dead women, but 1 in 3 women killed by a former intimate partner is shot.
Of those 88 out of 100 are shot with long guns.
Nearly 4 out of 5 long gun killers say they would not have tried to kill their
former partners if they didn't have access to a firearm.
Long gun ownership and previous death threats have a high correlation with actual
murder.
Gun death rates in Canada vary in lock step with the % of long guns in homes. The
northern provinces/territories have the highest rate of long guns in homes, and
the highest rates of gun suicide, homicide, and accidental gunshot death.
Canada is no exception. The USA, Finland, and Switzerland have the highest rates
of gun homes in the developed world, and the highest rates of gunshot deaths. The
high Swiss gunshot death rate comes as a cognitive dissonant shock to most gun
nuts. Part of their catechism goes:
Every able bodied swiss male of military age keeps a military firearm in their
home. This proves that guns in homes are not a hazard.
As usual they don't have a clue what they are talking about.
The numbers in this "debate" lead to an easy and direct conclusion about the
dangers of long guns in homes.
For some reason the news media seem to have been too lazy to bring up those clear
and convincing public safety statistics during the latest "debate" about whether
to register and control possession of long guns.
It wasn't that many years ago that we had a good old city boy driving around
Saanich, BC with a long gun on his pickup rack, stopping every now and then to
shoot at people from concealment, killing a teenage girl and continuing to shoot
at a group of young children out for a bike ride. He shot out the tire on one
of the bikes, when they stopped to look at the flat tire they realized that
bullets were whizzing through the air around them.
Gun ownership is an anomaly in Canada, for good reason. Gun nuts complain about
Gun Homes being "de-normalized" in Canada. Well duh, the sane majority knows
that guns are more than 4 times a likely to be used to kill someone in the
home, suicice or domestic homicide, than anyone else. Why shouldn't the sane
majority look critically at the small minority of gun nuts who can't understand
the lethal risk that guns pose to the owners, and their families?
The ridiculously high number of handguns in the USA brings with it an 8 times
higher risk (per 100 k of population) of being shot with a handgun and dying.
Hand gun control in Canada works and saves lives. There is no reason to exempt
long guns, which come with an annual toll of dead bodies, most often the owners
or members of their families.
Pete
>
> Over 90% of gunshot deaths in Canada are suicide.
>
> Living in one of the small minority of Canadian homes with long guns predicts a
> 5 times higher rate of suicide completion, for the adults and teenage chidren.
>
> While that may sound like a so what Darwin Award living in a gun home in Canada
> also predicts a 3 times higher rate of being a victim of domestic homicide.
>
> The success of gun registration and control in Canada has reduced the butchers
> bill of dead women, but 1 in 3 women killed by a former intimate partner is shot.
> Of those 88 out of 100 are shot with long guns.
>
> Nearly 4 out of 5 long gun killers say they would not have tried to kill their
> former partners if they didn't have access to a firearm.
>
Look Kelly. I live in an apartment. That's because I own the fucking
apartmnent buliding. It's worth $4 million.
It's in Rosedale.
If some jackass in another apartment fires a rifle or a pistol off and it goes
into my place and A) kills my dog B) kills my cat C) kills my son sleeping in
his bed, or C) kills me or my girlfriend.
What the fuck am I gonna do?
I've got lots of rifles. But it will not matter!
Shit. I know 3 fire captains and I have dinner with Chief Blair once and
awhile.
That's not going to change anything.
Duncan Patton a Campbell
> Long gun ownership and previous death threats have a high correlation
> with actual murder.
>
"Spatial-J and 2 cups of milk is a good dietary source of protein".
Death threats are a good indication that all is not well regardless
of current gun ownership status. I would go so far as to say such
words are a SIGN to shake the dust from your feet and go...
Dhu
--
Duncan Patton a Campbell is Dhu
Cowen Kent Cowen
nuts and government terrorists scum, spend your days killing men with
bullshit legislation, over taxing, steal the public's money to line the
governments pockets with by fucking over familes, children and women, and
men........It's no wonder many men kill themselves and the big surprise is
those same men don't go out and shoot every political potato head nut in
office, who caters to criminals in the feminazi anti-men group for harming
men's children and familes....fuck off you kook with your bullshit anti-gun
propaganda when governments kill more people in the world then you can even
get the real numbers of the dead....meanwhile women stab, drowned, smouther
and even set fire to their children, because of mental cases in the
feminazis movement runnnig loose in Canada putting out phony, fake, and just
useful opinions in bullshit research material for governments to base laws
on.
And everyone know it now in Canada and how polititians are the worse lying
sack of shit going who misuse the legislation to create terrorism......You
fucking idiot socilaist kooks should all be ashamed of yourselves...
"Kelly Bert Manning" <bo...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:hdldn2$9h8$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca...
Cowen Kent Cowen
"Duncan Patton a Campbell" <camp...@neotext.ca> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11...@neotext.ca...
How many death threats are put on people around the world Duh......when
governments kill those people with phony political agenda's.
SaPeIsMa
But nothing to suggest CAUSATION
This is nothing but old crap warmed up.
It's Kellerman re-visited
"Kelly Bert Manning" <bo...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:hdldn2$9h8$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca...
USENET
wrote:
Do you have a link to the Swiss gun death statistics?
Orion
No, he doesn't ....nor for any other statistic that he mentioned.
That's because all the numbers mentioned are FABRICATED. Your first
clue should have been the fact that there are no gun owners or
firearms owners in Kelly Bert's paranoid little world, only "gun
nuts"....
whitebread
>> Do you have a link to the Swiss gun death statistics?
Orion" <Ori...@hush.com> wrote in message
news:e67ff795-bfa0-4be3...@z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> No, he doesn't ....nor for any other statistic that he mentioned.
>
> That's because all the numbers mentioned are FABRICATED. Your first
> clue should have been the fact that there are no gun owners or
> firearms owners in Kelly Bert's paranoid little world, only "gun
> nuts"....
Yeah, well.... we already know that facts aren't a strong point with YOU "gun nuts".
Here's the Swiss story:
_________________________
In 2001 Swiss citizen Friedrich Leibacher entered a regional Swiss parliament building and
used an assault rifle to kill 14 people before killing himself.[4] Strangely enough, this
wasn't his personal army issue weapon, but a private version of the army issue rifle. He
committed suicide with a pistol and used an improvised explosive device.[5]
It is claimed that approximately 300 deaths per year involve the use of Swiss army guns,
mostly suicides and family murders.[6] As a result of this and similar media reports, gun
control advocates are trying to halt the practice of military weapons issuance and storage
in the private homes of Swiss Army members. Gun supporters question the statistics and the
practice has become a political issue. As of October 2007, the issuing of personal
ammunition after boot camp has been discontinued and a majority of the already issued
packs will be withdrawn within 2008.[7]
Carrying guns
To carry firearms in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the
militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person
must have a Waffentragschein (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to
private citizens working in occupations such as security.
It is, however, quite common to see a person serving military service to be en route with
his rifle.
Buying guns
Conditions under the 1999 Gun Act
a.. To purchase a firearm in a commercial shop, one needs to have a Waffenerwerbsschein
(weapon acquisition permit). A permit allows the purchase of three firearms. Everyone over
the age of 18 who is not psychiatrically disabled (such as having had a history of
endangering his own life or the lives of others) or identified as posing security
problems, and who has a clean criminal record (requires a Criminal Records Bureau check)
can request such a permit.
a.. To buy a gun from an individual, no permit is needed, but the seller is expected to
establish a reasonable certainty that the purchaser will fulfill the above-mentioned
conditions (usually done through a Criminal Records Bureau check). The participants in
such a transaction are required to prepare a written contract detailing the identities of
both vendor and purchaser, the weapon's type, manufacturer, and serial number. The law
requires the written contract to be kept for ten years by the buyer and seller. The seller
is also required to see some official ID from the purchaser, for such sales are only
allowed to Swiss nationals and foreigners with a valid residence permit, with the
exception of those foreigners that come from certain countries (Croatia, Bosnia,
Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Albania, Algeria), to whom such sales are not allowed even
if they do have a residence permit. Foreigners without a residence permit or from
countries on the ban list must ask for a special permit.
Changes due to the Schengen treaty
The rules laid out above were changed on 1 December 2008 as Switzerland joined the
Schengen treaty; and all member countries must adapt some of their laws to a common
standard. Following the draft of the Swiss government for the new Waffengesetz (weapons
law), these points will change:
a.. Unlawful possession of guns will be punished.
a.. Gun trade among individuals will require a valid weapon acquisition permit: this is,
from a Swiss point of view, a radical restriction that is assumed will undercut private
gun trade dramatically.
a.. Every gun must be marked with a registered serial number.
a.. Airsoft guns and imitations of real guns will also be governed by the new law.
a.. Only one weapon may be purchased per weapon acquisition permit: Presumably, this
will dry out the market for relatively cheap used guns, including popular collector's
items such as Swiss army revolvers from the late 19th/early 20th century.
a.. Weapons acquired from an individual in the last ten years (which did not require a
weapon acquisition permit) have to be registered. As a central weapons register was
politically unfeasible, the authorities hope to get an overview of the market through this
registration requirement.
a.. While the above mentioned "free arms" remain exempt from the weapon acquisition
permit, the vendor is required to notify the local arms bureau of the sale.
Gun crime
Further information: Gun violence and Crime in Switzerland
Police statistics for the year 2006[13] records 34 killings or attempted killings
involving firearms, compared to 69 cases involving bladed weapons and 16 cases of unarmed
assault. Cases of assault resulting in bodily harm numbered 89 (firearms) and 526 (bladed
weapons). This represents a decline of aggravated assaults involving firearms since the
early 1990s. Some 300 deaths per year are due to legally held army ordinance weapons, the
large majority of these being suicides. The majority of gun crimes involving domestic
violence are perpetrated with army ordnance weapons, while the majority of gun crime
outside the domestic sphere involves illegally held firearms.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
Kelly Bert Manning
>>
>> Do you have a link to the Swiss gun death statistics?
>
>
>
> No, he doesn't ....nor for any other statistic that he mentioned.
>
> That's because all the numbers mentioned are FABRICATED. Your first
> clue should have been the fact that there are no gun owners or
> firearms owners in Kelly Bert's paranoid little world, only "gun
> nuts"....
In fact the swiss death rate from military guns alone is higher than
the firearm death rate in nearby countries. In 2007 Switzerland stopped
the practice of allowing milita to keep ammunition in their homes because
it had become such an obvious problem.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/30/suicides-half-of-gun-deat_n_110043.html
The USA CDC reported that during 2005 55% of all USA gun shot deaths were suicide.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/050628/dq050628a-eng.htm
"In each year during this period, about four-fifths of firearms-related deaths
were suicides. Homicides accounted for around 15% of such deaths, and about
4% were unintentional.
...
The risk of death from an injury related to firearms was a fraction of that in
the United States. In 2000, the rate of homicide involving a gun in the
United States was 3.8 for every 100,000 population, nearly eight times Canada's
rate of 0.5."
http://www.iansa.org/regions/europe/Swisscampaign.htm
"Military guns are used in 280 gun deaths a year in Switzerland, according to
research by Professor Martin Killias of Lausanne University. This is the
equivalent of a gun death rate of 3.7 deaths per 100,000 people, which is higher
than the gun death rate in most other Western European countries, for all types of
guns, not just military guns."
http://www.schutz-vor-waffengewalt.ch/downloads/BfS_%20Toetungsdelikte-haeusliche-Gewalt-2007_f.pdf
Rational, sane, people may be puzzled by the level of venom, animosity and
denial that gun nuts are expressing toward my simple statement of the facts of
gun suicide and family firearm homicide.
Keep in mind that they must be very unhappy, troubled, people, based on the rate
at which their own guns are used to kill themselves and family members.
Happy, sane, people do not kill themselves, or members of their family.
Pete
> In fact the swiss death rate from military guns alone is higher than
> the firearm death rate in nearby countries. In 2007 Switzerland stopped
> the practice of allowing milita to keep ammunition in their homes because
> it had become such an obvious problem.
>
In the Western European nations, not the former 'USSR" countries,
Switzerland had the most "liberal" of all gun legislation.
They also have the highest firearms homicide rate as well, except for Portugal.
Why that is so? I have no idea.
Pete
I'm pleased that major cities in Canada have an exceptionall low homicide rate.
The closest in the USA to 5 million Toronto that the USA has, are communities in
the USA that have 200,000 people.
Montreal is less than Toronto.
I lived in Dallas, I have a place on Mamhttan Island. I've lived in Chicago
too. Dayton Ohio, and I am thinking about a place in Greenville, South
Carolina.
Toronto is the 5th biggest city in North America, and very peaceful We have
had 52 homicides this year. New York has far more, so does Chicago, and don't
get me started on Dallas.
Orion
> > On Nov 14, 6:26 pm, USENET <gregcarronuse...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >> Do you have a link to the Swiss gun death statistics?
> Orion" <Ori...@hush.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e67ff795-bfa0-4be3...@z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > No, he doesn't ....nor for any other statistic that he mentioned.
>
> > That's because all the numbers mentioned are FABRICATED. Your first
> > clue should have been the fact that there are no gun owners or
> > firearms owners in Kelly Bert's paranoid little world, only "gun
> > nuts"....
>
> Yeah, well.... we already know that facts aren't a strong point with YOU "gun nuts".
> Here's the Swiss story:
<snip>
Yes, here it is:
> Some 300 deaths per year are due to legally held army ordinance weapons,
> the large majority of these being * *suicides.* *
Nice to see that you haven't gotten any smarter, Karen. Suicide
rates are independent of gun ownership rates. Always have been.
> The majority of gun crimes involving domestic violence are perpetrated with
> army ordnance weapons
No surprising. How many would that be, exactly? 100? 10? 1?
> while the majority of gun crime outside the domestic sphere involves illegally > held firearms.[14]
Ahhh...now we're getting somewhere. "Illegally held" guns are
unaffected by gun control laws, dimwit.
Do you EVER bother to actually read any of the links you post,
Karen?
Butteye_Jest
<f9fb64cf-2ad1-4a6a...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Orion <Ori...@hush.com> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 1:00 pm, "whitebread" <whitebr...@shop.ca> wrote:
> > > On Nov 14, 6:26 pm, USENET <gregcarronuse...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > >> Do you have a link to the Swiss gun death statistics?
> > Orion" <Ori...@hush.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:e67ff795-bfa0-4be3...@z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > No, he doesn't ....nor for any other statistic that he mentioned.
> >
> > > That's because all the numbers mentioned are FABRICATED. Your first
> > > clue should have been the fact that there are no gun owners or
> > > firearms owners in Kelly Bert's paranoid little world, only "gun
> > > nuts"....
> >
> > Yeah, well.... we already know that facts aren't a strong point with YOU
> > "gun nuts".
> > Here's the Swiss story:
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Yes, here it is:
>
> > Some 300 deaths per year are due to legally held army ordinance weapons,
> > the large majority of these being * *suicides.* *
>
>
> Nice to see that you haven't gotten any smarter, Karen. Suicide
> rates are independent of gun ownership rates. Always have been.
Almost every suicide in the forces, every victim of their own murder,
owns a gun.
>
--
Ole Butteye
Orion
wrote:
<snip>
> Rational, sane, people may be puzzled by the level of venom, animosity and
> denial that gun nuts are expressing toward my simple statement of the facts of
> gun suicide and family firearm homicide.
No...rational, sane people are still puzzling over these whoppers
:
>The success of gun registration and control in Canada has reduced the >butchers bill of dead women
Really, Kelly? Okay...how? Where? When? Give us some tangible
evidence, some irrefutable fact, or just admit that you pulled this
one right out of your ass (again)...
>, but 1 in 3 women killed by a former intimate partner is shot.
I see. And the other 2?
Oh, that's right...you don't give a rat's ass about dead women (or
men, for that matter), do you? All you care about is your ongoing,
pathetic crusade to smear gun owners any way you can.
I (or several others in this newsgroup) could easily go through your
entire post and destroy your 'arguments' point-by-point, but why
bother? If you're stupid enough to try and link any or all of your
rambling, disjointed regurgitations of gun-grabber propaganda to the
issue of gun *registration* in Canada, nothing anyone can say to you
is going to penetrate that thick skull of yours.
Give it up, Kelly. If your basic problem hasn't become obvious to
you after all these years, then let me spell it out for you: you
simply don't have the intellect to be an effective shill for the anti-
gun hysterics. You've got the stubbornness and the motivation...you're
just AS DUMB AS A POST, that's all. There's no shame in it...that's
just the luck of the draw...
Dave Smith
Why it is so is simple..... it isn't so.
Switzerland has a low rate of firearms homicide. Italy's firearms
homicide rate is double that if Switzerland. According to Nationmaster,
Switzerland has a murder rate of 0.009n (per 1,000), ranking it at #56,
below all the rest of the countries in Europe. It is not in the list of
top 32 country overall homicide rates.
SaPeIsMa
"Pete" <pete...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2571f2d17...@News.Individual.NET...
Only idiots make claims without considering causality
Too bad you qualify for the title
SaPeIsMa
Most probably because you're spouting ignorance cant
Go ahead and provide DATA to support your claim
Don't forget to make sure that the other Euro countries are included for
comparison
Dave Smith
That may prove difficult. I wondered about it and did some research. It
seems that it is based on the assertions of an anti gun crusader.
Actual crime stats show that Switzerland has a very low crime rate.
Switzerland also keeps stats based on nationality; Swiss and non-Swiss.
The non Swiss account for about 10% of the population and 50% of the
crime. The shit hit the fan when the Toronto police released race based
stats that showed that one particular group made up only 10% of the
population but were responsible for 90% of the violent crime.
Roy
> SaPeIsMa wrote:
>
> > "Pete" <pete2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
And were these from Jamaica, perchance?
==
Dave Smith
Well, I didn't say it, and I am not going to deny the obvious.
Dave Smith
>> That may prove difficult. I wondered about it and did some research. It
>> seems that it is based on the assertions of an anti gun crusader.
>> Actual crime stats show that Switzerland has a very low crime rate.
>> Switzerland also keeps stats based on nationality; Swiss and non-Swiss.
>> The non Swiss account for about 10% of the population and 50% of the
>> crime. The shit hit the fan when the Toronto police released race based
>> stats that showed that one particular group made up only 10% of the
>> population but were responsible for 90% of the violent crime.
>
>
> Careful, your post might be considered Hate Speech.
I didn't name any particular group. If you can figure out which one
they were referring to we can discuss whether that makes you a racist or
a realist.
Orion
That particular incident was years ago, but I remember it well. How
insane is it when you can't even begin to solve a problem because you
aren't allowed to admit that the problem exists?
Kelly Bert Manning
>>
>>That may prove difficult. I wondered about it and did some research. It
>>seems that it is based on the assertions of an anti gun crusader.
>>Actual crime stats show that Switzerland has a very low crime rate.
>>Switzerland also keeps stats based on nationality; Swiss and non-Swiss.
>>The non Swiss account for about 10% of the population and 50% of the
>>crime. The shit hit the fan when the Toronto police released race based
>>stats that showed that one particular group made up only 10% of the
>>population but were responsible for 90% of the violent crime.
So someone how non-swiss men infiltratd the militia and used their swiss
military firearms and ammunition to give switzerland a military gunshot
death rate higher that the total gunshot death rate in Germany, France,
Holland, Belgion, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Britain?
Thanks for trying, but this obviously isn't a fair contest.
What exactly are the sources for this little racist fantasy of yours?
A bunch of liars repeating lies to each other is still a pack of liars.
It is really quite simple, though beyond your mental reach. When people
get depressed or involved in personal disputes, the death rate marches
in lock step with how fast they can get their hands on a firearm.
More guns, more gun suicide, homicide and accidental death.
Orion
wrote:
> E. Barry Bruyea (termlim...@democracy.com) writes:
>
>
>
> >>That may prove difficult. I wondered about it and did some research. It
> >>seems that it is based on the assertions of an anti gun crusader.
> >>Actual crime stats show that Switzerland has a very low crime rate.
> >>Switzerland also keeps stats based on nationality; Swiss and non-Swiss.
> >>The non Swiss account for about 10% of the population and 50% of the
> >>crime. The shit hit the fan when the Toronto police released race based
> >>stats that showed that one particular group made up only 10% of the
> >>population but were responsible for 90% of the violent crime.
>
> So someone how non-swiss men infiltratd the militia and used their swiss
> military firearms and ammunition to give switzerland a military gunshot
> death rate higher that the total gunshot death rate in Germany, France,
> Holland, Belgion, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Britain?
>
> Thanks for trying, but this obviously isn't a fair contest.
>
> What exactly are the sources for this little racist fantasy of yours?
>
> A bunch of liars repeating lies to each other is still a pack of liars.
That's funny, coming from a guy who gets *his* 'statistics' from the
websites of anti-gun hysterics.
> It is really quite simple, though beyond your mental reach. When people
> get depressed or involved in personal disputes, the death rate marches
> in lock step with how fast they can get their hands on a firearm.
Cite, please. A REAL one, if you don't mind...not a fabricated one
from your favorite gun-grabber site, okay?
> More guns, more gun suicide, homicide and accidental death.
More cars, more car suicide, homicide and accidental death.
More medicines, more medicine suicide, homicide and accidental
death.
More knives, more knife suicide, homicide and accidental death.
More bridges, more bridge suicide, homicide and accidental death.
More buildings, more building suicide, homicide and accidental
death.
More ferries, more ferry suicide, homicide and accidental death.
(are we having fun yet, Kelly?)
You're an idiot.