Invasion
Tony Raven
drop off their fresher offspring and a car full of belongings, every
traffic warden from the south of England seems to have been drawn to
Cambridge today. They were literally everywhere often in groups of two
or three offering a traditional welcome to the city. Must have been the
scent of easy prey.
--
Tony
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the
support of Paul."
- George Bernard Shaw.
Tim Ward
news:MPG.2351e58ca...@news.nildram.co.uk...
> With proud parents converging on Cambridge from across the country to
> drop off their fresher offspring and a car full of belongings, every
> traffic warden from the south of England seems to have been drawn to
> Cambridge today. They were literally everywhere often in groups of two
> or three offering a traditional welcome to the city. Must have been the
> scent of easy prey.
There certainly aren't any Cambridge traffic wardens, and it is difficult to
imagine that any from outside the city have any power here.
Anyway I arrived in Cambridge on the train with one suitcase, people have
got too much stuff these days. (Though it did take me two trips in a Luton
Transit to leave four years later.)
(I have to admit that I've delivered two carloads of stuff to my child in
Tit Hall, and she's been back home four times already for more stuff in the
week she's been there. I was cunning enough to avoid parking fines ... by
the strange and weird strategy of choosing not to park illegally. Strange, I
also managed to avoid speeding fines by the strange and weird strategy of
not driving illegally fast.)
--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor
Tony Raven
says...
>
> There certainly aren't any Cambridge traffic wardens, and it is difficult to
> imagine that any from outside the city have any power here.
>
Well whatever they were they looked and acted like traffic wardens. And
that place was crawling with them in numbers I've never seen before.
Perhaps they just never normally come out of their depot.
> I was cunning enough to avoid parking fines ... by
> the strange and weird strategy of choosing not to park illegally. Strange, I
> also managed to avoid speeding fines by the strange and weird strategy of
> not driving illegally fast.)
>
Me too. But it seems odd to give such a welcome to new visitors to the
city when normally the traffic wardens or whatever they are can't be
bothered with much worse regular transgressions by the locals (vide
Revolutions debate). The former will leave occasional visitors with an
unhappy experience of Cambridge, the latter might actually change
regular everyday problems permanently for the better.
--
Tony
"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has
taken place"
George Bernard Shaw
judith
<ju...@raven-family.invalid> wrote:
>With proud parents converging on Cambridge from across the country to
>drop off their fresher offspring and a car full of belongings, every
>traffic warden from the south of England seems to have been drawn to
>Cambridge today. They were literally everywhere often in groups of two
>or three offering a traditional welcome to the city. Must have been the
>scent of easy prey.
Hi Tony
Any particular reason why you were posting as Wile E Coyote
<WileE...@roadrunner.invalid> in URC?
Tim Ward
>
> normally the traffic wardens or whatever they are can't be
> bothered with much worse regular transgressions by the locals (vide
> Revolutions debate)
If you are referring to their lack of legal power to do anything about
offences not involving yellow lines, no matter how much they might like to,
you may be interested in the item in the AJC agenda about putting double
yellow lines in cycle lanes.
The report points out that
- cyclists don't want people parking illegally in mandatory cycle lanes
- cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
- local authority parking enforcement officers can't enforce against parking
in mandatory cycle lanes if there aren't any double yellow lines
- police won't enforce against parking in mandatory cycle lanes
- there ain't nobody else who's going to do anything about it
and makes no recommendation.
Alan Braggins
>The report points out that
>- cyclists don't want people parking illegally in mandatory cycle lanes
>- cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
>- local authority parking enforcement officers can't enforce against parking
>in mandatory cycle lanes if there aren't any double yellow lines
>- police won't enforce against parking in mandatory cycle lanes
>- there ain't nobody else who's going to do anything about it
>and makes no recommendation.
Does it explain why the police won't enforce against offences that
only they have the power to do? Mention any other laws that it has
been decided aren't worth bothering with in Cambridge?
(We can take it as read from past threads that cyclist lighting is
enforced occasionally, but not very effectively.)
Tim Ward
news:slrngeh28...@chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>
> Does it explain why the police won't enforce against offences that
> only they have the power to do? Mention any other laws that it has
> been decided aren't worth bothering with in Cambridge?
> (We can take it as read from past threads that cyclist lighting is
> enforced occasionally, but not very effectively.)
You may read it for yourself.
Douglas de Lacey
> "Tony Raven" <ju...@raven-family.invalid> wrote in message
> news:MPG.2351edafc...@news.nildram.co.uk...
>> normally the traffic wardens or whatever they are can't be
>> bothered with much worse regular transgressions by the locals (vide
>> Revolutions debate)
>
> If you are referring to their lack of legal power to do anything about
> offences not involving yellow lines, no matter how much they might like to,
> you may be interested in the item in the AJC agenda about putting double
> yellow lines in cycle lanes.
>
> The report points out that
>
> - cyclists don't want people parking illegally in mandatory cycle lanes
> - cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
> - local authority parking enforcement officers can't enforce against parking
> in mandatory cycle lanes if there aren't any double yellow lines
> - police won't enforce against parking in mandatory cycle lanes
> - there ain't nobody else who's going to do anything about it
>
> and makes no recommendation.
>
Fascinating reading. Inter alia:
1. Some cyclists don't like double yellows because they "visually narrow
cycle lanes making them less attractive" and "can undermine the ride
quality of the kerbside half of the cycle lane". How does Richar Preston
know this, when he fails to be aware of the major reason often touted
here: that they compromise the whole effect of a cycle lane as a "keep
out" to motor vehicles?
2. "the police no longer have powers to enforce parking restrictions":
would that mean that they could not enforce double yellows in a cycle lane??
3. "there is a need to avoid a ‘one solution fits all’ approach" So some
cycle lanes would have double yellows but not all. Exacerbating the
problem in 1 above.
4. It could be unfair to delivery lorries, possibly leading to "conflict
between cyclists and delivery drivers" in places like Huntingdon Road
(2.7). Clerly Mr Preston never uses the Huntingdon Road or he would be
aware of constant conflict there under the present regime. Aaargh, 3.3
suggests a solution of changing the lanes to advisory ones. And although
I don't understand 3.1, it seems to tout mandatory lanes with a sort of
timed exception.
5. "The county policy on cycle lanes requires that they are a minimum of
1.5 metres in width" (3.1) I wish someone would tell Mr Preston that.
This is an awful document. AJC, please reject it.
Douglas de Lacey
Tim Ward
news:gca64q$qqn$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
>
> This is an awful document. AJC, please reject it.
As I read it there's no substantive recommendation, so nothing to reject.
Just guessing (I'm not on the AJC) but that report seems consistent with a
history like this:
(1) Councillors asked for report on what could be done about people parking
in mandatory cycle lanes.
(2) Officers produced the report, which says "not a lot, certainly not a lot
you're likely to vote for, but it's up to you".
Of course if the AJC did vote for double yellow lines in mandatory cycle
lanes the county would say it hasn't got any money to pay for the lines and
signs and TROs and advertising and whatever else is necessary, so the city
would have to put up the money, by diverting it from elsewhere, in a year
when we've got to find £1,300,000 to pay for "free" bus journeys for older
people.
So, given a choice of:
(a) pissing off cyclists by doing nothing, or:
(b) pissing off cyclists by putting double yellow lines in cycle lanes, and
having to cut services elsewhere to pay for it
it looks like a no brainer to me. If *you* were faced with a lose-lose
scenario where one version of "lose" was cheaper than the other what would
*you* do?
Tony Raven
says...
>
> it looks like a no brainer to me. If *you* were faced with a lose-lose
> scenario where one version of "lose" was cheaper than the other what would
> *you* do?
>
Not have bothered wasting money on cycle lanes, that are substandard
anyway, in the first place?
I can't see cyclists objecting to double yellow lines visually narrowing
cycle lanes if the lanes were the recommended minimum width or more in
the first place. But when the Council wastes money painting 6" wide
cycle lanes and then filling them with 8" wide double yellow lines I can
see the problem instantly - something the clueless traffic engineers of
the County/City seem to have great difficulty doing
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Ward) wrote:
> "Alan Braggins" <ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrngeh28...@chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> >
> > Does it explain why the police won't enforce against offences that
> > only they have the power to do? Mention any other laws that it has
> > been decided aren't worth bothering with in Cambridge?
> > (We can take it as read from past threads that cyclist lighting is
> > enforced occasionally, but not very effectively.)
>
> You may read it for yourself.
though you may not like it much.
The report also fails to say why parking attendants don't enforce loading
restrictions, marked by bars on kerbs which have not been affected by
laying down the new cycle lanes. They cover some of the most
offended-against cycle lanes, e.g. Mawson Road next to a take-away popular
with taxi and hire car drivers.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Lacey) wrote:
Now, now! Quote the next sentence at least:
"On roads where cycle flows and vehicle speeds are low the width may be
reduced to an absolute minimum of 1.2 metres, subject to a satisfactory
safety audit."
> This is an awful document. AJC, please reject it.
Since it doesn't recommend anything it isn't clear what the AJC should do
with it.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Patrick Gosling
<rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>The report also fails to say why parking attendants don't enforce loading
>restrictions, marked by bars on kerbs which have not been affected by
>laying down the new cycle lanes. They cover some of the most
>offended-against cycle lanes, e.g. Mawson Road next to a take-away popular
>with taxi and hire car drivers.
I'm struggling with this assertion on two grounds; firstly that
Mawson Road has no cycle lanes; and secondly that it has no take-aways.
Apart from that ...
-patrick.
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
(Patrick Gosling) wrote:
Look at its corner with Mill Road more closely.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Jon Warbrick
Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote:
>So, given a choice of:
>
>(a) pissing off cyclists by doing nothing, or:
>
>(b) pissing off cyclists by putting double yellow lines in cycle lanes, and
>having to cut services elsewhere to pay for it
>
>it looks like a no brainer to me.
I understood that the LAPE legislation/regulations/whatever were being
revised to allow things like parking in cycle lanes to be dealt with
under LAPE. How about:
(c) pushing for this to be applied in Cambridge?
Jon.
--
Jon Warbrick
Tim Ward
news:gcajgf$q2p$1...@mnementh.csi.cam.ac.uk...
>
> I understood that the LAPE legislation/regulations/whatever were being
> revised to allow things like parking in cycle lanes to be dealt with
> under LAPE. How about:
>
> (c) pushing for this to be applied in Cambridge?
Well, when the legal power exists I'm sure the councils and/or the AJC will
consider adopting it locally (if any such decision is actually needed).
There's a limited amount councils can do to hasten such legislation - we can
pass motions in full council to have the chief exec write a letter to the
minister, and there are lobbying opportunities via what are in effect the
local government trade associations, and we can get the MP to put down
questions, but I haven't a clue how much effect any of this has.
"Wait for the government to change the law" is I'm afraid the most practical
response to a number of issues ... and sometimes it works fine.
Jon Warbrick
Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote:
>Well, when the legal power exists I'm sure the councils and/or the AJC will
>consider adopting it locally (if any such decision is actually needed).
>There's a limited amount councils can do to hasten such legislation - we can
>pass motions in full council to have the chief exec write a letter to the
>minister, and there are lobbying opportunities via what are in effect the
>local government trade associations, and we can get the MP to put down
>questions, but I haven't a clue how much effect any of this has.
>
>"Wait for the government to change the law" is I'm afraid the most practical
>response to a number of issues ... and sometimes it works fine.
Does anyone here know what state this proposed change has got to - I
admit I don't?
Jon.
--
Jon Warbrick
Martin
On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Tim Ward wrote:
> The report points out that
>
> - cyclists don't want people parking illegally in mandatory cycle lanes
> - cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
> - local authority parking enforcement officers can't enforce against parking
> in mandatory cycle lanes if there aren't any double yellow lines
> - police won't enforce against parking in mandatory cycle lanes
> - there ain't nobody else who's going to do anything about it
but FAILS to point out that civil enforcement by LAPE wardens will become
possible when the provisions of the Traffic Management Act 2004 become
'enabled', and this is apparently forthcoming soon.
Cambridge should put itself forward as the trial area for such
enforcement.
>
> and makes no recommendation.
Martin
Martin
On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Douglas de Lacey wrote:
> 2. "the police no longer have powers to enforce parking restrictions":
> would that mean that they could not enforce double yellows in a cycle
> lane??
Correct. It's now a civil ("decriminalised") matter.
> 5. "The county policy on cycle lanes requires that they are a minimum of
> 1.5 metres in width" (3.1) I wish someone would tell Mr Preston that.
This is the new County policy. No doubt the next report to the AJC
involving cycle lanes will fail to meet that; I would love to be proven
wrong. Of course national recommendations give the width as 2m..
>
> This is an awful document. AJC, please reject it.
I hope they will.
Martin
Martin
On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Tim Ward wrote:
> Jon Warbrick wrote
> > (c) pushing for this to be applied in Cambridge?
>
> Well, when the legal power exists I'm sure the councils and/or the AJC will
> consider adopting it locally (if any such decision is actually needed).
Which would make the latest report obsolete, soon afterwards...
> There's a limited amount councils can do to hasten such legislation - we can
> pass motions in full council to have the chief exec write a letter to the
> minister
I bet you even that hasn't been done.
> "Wait for the government to change the law" is I'm afraid the most
> practical response to a number of issues ... and sometimes it works
> fine.
The law *has* been changed - just that the enabling provisions are not yet
in place. Having active demand from a Local Authority could help that
happen sooner?
Martin
Tim Ward
news:alpine.LSU.2.00.0...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk...
>
> The law *has* been changed - just that the enabling provisions are not yet
> in place.
Er, sorry, I meant *usefully* changed. A law you can't use might be more
progress than one that doesn't exist at all, but it's still not actually any
use right now.
> Having active demand from a Local Authority could help that
> happen sooner?
Possibly. The day after everyone has changed jobs in a reshuffle may not be
the best time to pick; it's not unknown for reshuffles to delay such things
for months, or even forever if the incoming minister doesn't actually like
the piece of legislation and chooses never to enable it.
Jon Warbrick
Martin <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>Cambridge should put itself forward as the trial area for such
>enforcement.
... especially since it's a 'Cycling Demonstration Town'!
Jon.
--
Jon Warbrick
Tony Raven
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk says...
>
> Now, now! Quote the next sentence at least:
>
> "On roads where cycle flows and vehicle speeds are low the width may be
> reduced to an absolute minimum of 1.2 metres, subject to a satisfactory
> safety audit."
>
Said safety audit apparently comprising an internal conversation that
goes something like "Do you think we'll get away with making it that
narrow?" "Yeah, bung it in, its only cyclists using it after all"
--
Tony
"They are decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute,
adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent."
- Winston Churchill
Patrick Gosling
My apologies. That's a recent development, isn't it?
-patrick.
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Ward) wrote:
> "Martin" <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:alpine.LSU.2.00.0...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk...
> >
> > The law *has* been changed - just that the enabling provisions
> > are not yet in place.
>
> Er, sorry, I meant *usefully* changed. A law you can't use might be
> more progress than one that doesn't exist at all, but it's still
> not actually any use right now.
Indeed. A law was enacted in 1978 making parking on pavements illegal
throughout England. The DfT's (Daft's, says my spilling chukka :-))
predecessors kept saying they would bring it into force and allowed
separate legislation to be passed for London which did come into effect,
but they never commenced it elsewhere and eventually repealed it, in the
1990s, IIRC.
> > Having active demand from a Local Authority could help that
> > happen sooner?
>
> Possibly. The day after everyone has changed jobs in a reshuffle
> may not be the best time to pick; it's not unknown for reshuffles
> to delay such things for months, or even forever if the incoming
> minister doesn't actually like the piece of legislation and chooses
> never to enable it.
Another year, another set of transport ministers. <sigh>
--
Colin Rosenstiel
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk (Martin) wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Douglas de Lacey wrote:
>
> > 5. "The county policy on cycle lanes requires that they are a
> > minimum of 1.5 metres in width" (3.1) I wish someone would tell
> > Mr Preston that.
>
> This is the new County policy. No doubt the next report to the AJC
> involving cycle lanes will fail to meet that; I would love to be
> proven wrong. Of course national recommendations give the width as 2m.
2m is the recommended width, the minimum is 1.5m, surely?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
However, the worst case, Mawson Road, can be LAPE parking attendant
enforced now because of the clearly marked loading restrictions.
> > and makes no recommendation.
Indeed.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
(Patrick Gosling) wrote:
> In article <JvmdnUYz_t67UnXV...@giganews.com>,
> <rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <gcafvt$nmu$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, jp...@eng.cam.ac.uk
> >(Patrick Gosling) wrote:
> >
> >> In article <bK2dnVvk6ab...@giganews.com>,
> >> <rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >The report also fails to say why parking attendants don't enforce
> >> >loading restrictions, marked by bars on kerbs which have not been
> >> >affected by laying down the new cycle lanes. They cover some of the
> >> >most offended-against cycle lanes, e.g. Mawson Road next to a
> >> >take-away popular with taxi and hire car drivers.
> >>
> >> I'm struggling with this assertion on two grounds; firstly that
> >> Mawson Road has no cycle lanes; and secondly that it has no
> >> take-aways.
> >>
> >> Apart from that ...
> >
> >Look at its corner with Mill Road more closely.
>
> My apologies. That's a recent development, isn't it?
Some months ago, yes. The parking problem started almost immediately after
the change.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Ian Jackson
Are there any cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the recommended width ?
--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
Paul Rudin
J. Chisholm
> With proud parents converging on Cambridge from across the country to
> drop off their fresher offspring and a car full of belongings, every
> traffic warden from the south of England seems to have been drawn to
> Cambridge today. They were literally everywhere often in groups of two
> or three offering a traditional welcome to the city. Must have been the
> scent of easy prey.
>
>
The other place seems to have a better system. I'm told some central
Colleges have an 'arrangement' where parents are given a letter and a
15min slot.
If they abide by that rule the 'enforcers' (be they Traffic Wardens or
Civil Enforcers) treat it as an authorised delivery!
Jim Chisholm
Eleanor Blair
>In article <WvmdneaUk-6...@giganews.com>,
> <rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>>2m is the recommended width, the minimum is 1.5m, surely?
>
>Are there any cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the recommended width ?
Hills Road must come close in places. And Trumpington Road (on the way
out, once you get past the bus lanes). I've not actually measured
either though, just found them remarkably pleasant compared to most.
J. Chisholm
"The Traffic Management Act 2004 (Schedule 7) specifies cycle lanes
among the traffic signs subject to civil enforcement of moving traffic
contraventions. Regulations enabling local authorities to take up these
powers are expected to be available in 2009." and that "Government
intends to publish a consultation shortly".
Jim Chisholm
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) wrote:
> In article <WvmdneaUk-6...@giganews.com>,
> <rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
> >2m is the recommended width, the minimum is 1.5m, surely?
>
> Are there any cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the recommended
> width ?
Yes.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Jon Warbrick
J. Chisholm <jc...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>I can quote from a letter I recieved from DfT in March:
>
>"The Traffic Management Act 2004 (Schedule 7) specifies cycle lanes
>among the traffic signs subject to civil enforcement of moving traffic
>contraventions. Regulations enabling local authorities to take up these
>powers are expected to be available in 2009." and that "Government
>intends to publish a consultation shortly".
I'm guessing that no one has seen hide nor hare of the consultation?
Jon.
--
Jon Warbrick
Roland Perry
Oct 2008, J. Chisholm <jc...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:
>
>"The Traffic Management Act 2004 (Schedule 7) specifies cycle lanes
>among the traffic signs subject to civil enforcement of moving traffic
>contraventions. Regulations enabling local authorities to take up these
>powers are expected to be available in 2009." and that "Government
>intends to publish a consultation shortly".
So does that mean that [post 2009] if someone *drives* in a mandatory
cycle lane only the LAPE wardens can take action?
--
Roland Perry
Eleanor Blair
>ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) wrote:
>> Are there any cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the recommended
>> width ?
>
>Yes.
It would be useful if you could say *which*.
Paul Rudin
Tony Raven
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk says...
But they are painted in a locked room in a cellar behind a door marked
"Beware of the Leopard". Meanwhile in the real world......
--
Tony
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
--Albert Einstein
J. Chisholm
The LAPE officers can take action. I suspect that Police (within a LAPE
area) then cannot, but they don't take action anyway...
I think they need to use an 'approved' camera of the type that is used
to similarly enforce bus lanes.
TfL has had cameras in buses. Perhaps we can have cyclists with cameras?
Basiccally a 'Civil Enforcer' can view any film and send a penalty
charge notice to those who infringe the rules.
I don't know if and 'hand held' cameras are considered 'approved devices'
Just this morning at 'one' of my favourite locations for infringements I
counted 42 vehicles driving at least 30 metres with two wheels
completely across the line in just 15 minutes.
This is the same location where a cyclist (not me) was threatened with
'Obstruction' because he deliberatly cycled 'sslloowwllyy' in the lane
when a police car (not on emergency call) attempted to drive down it!
Jim Chisholm
Tim B
> In article <bK2dnVvk6abHIHXV4p2d...@giganews.com>,
>
> <rosenst...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
> >The report also fails to say why parking attendants don't enforce loading
> >restrictions, marked by bars on kerbs which have not been affected by
> >laying down the new cycle lanes. They cover some of the most
> >offended-against cycle lanes, e.g. Mawson Road next to a take-away popular
> >with taxi and hire car drivers.
>
> I'm struggling with this assertion on two grounds; firstly that
> Mawson Road has no cycle lanes;
Do keep up at the back -
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/location/14389/
and nearby
Brian Morrison
> Just this morning at 'one' of my favourite locations for infringements I
> counted 42 vehicles driving at least 30 metres with two wheels
> completely across the line in just 15 minutes.
Might one ask why? Was there a reason such as "the road was obstructed
making it impossible to pass without doing so" or was it something else?
--
Brian
Ed Weatherup
I'm expecting the response "In Cambridge"
--
Ed.
Eleanor Blair
If it was where I think it was they were using the bike lane to
undertake traffic going straight on in order to get into a left turn
lane.
Eleanor Blair
>
>Just this morning at 'one' of my favourite locations for infringements I
>counted 42 vehicles driving at least 30 metres with two wheels
>completely across the line in just 15 minutes.
I wondered what you were doing!
Sarah Brown
One would hope that in 2008 of the common era, we'd moved beyond SNB...
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Warbrick) wrote:
Don't be silly. They'd had three more transport ministers since then!
--
Colin Rosenstiel
John Burnham
>
> One would hope that in 2008 of the common era, we'd moved beyond SNB...
Nah, excessive pendantism will never die - unless we all follow my modest
proposal whereby we find the pedants and then break every bone in their
bodies. That's for the first offence. After that we start to get serious.
J
Simon Morris
The word is "pedantry".
S.
John Burnham
> John Burnham wrote on 06/10/2008 12:02
>> Nah, excessive pendantism will never die - unless we all follow my modest
>> proposal whereby we find the pedants and then break every bone in their
>> bodies. That's for the first offence. After that we start to get serious.
>> J
>
> The word is "pedantry".
>
Ah, but "pedantism" is such wonderful pedant-bait. It usually snags me one
or two.
J
Roland Perry
Oct 2008, Ed Weatherup <inv...@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>>>> Are there any cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the recommended
>>>> width ?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>
>> Where?
>
>I'm expecting the response "In Cambridge"
The ones on Huntingdon Rd are famously wide.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>>mandatory cycle lane only the LAPE wardens can take action?
>
>The LAPE officers can take action. I suspect that Police (within a LAPE
>area) then cannot, but they don't take action anyway...
>
>I think they need to use an 'approved' camera of the type that is used
>to similarly enforce bus lanes.
Thinking about this, Nottingham City is now apparently doing civil
enforcement of bus lanes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/6973769.stm
but it doesn't seem to have stopped the police *also* doing enforcement,
unless the quotes from them here are coated in fog-of-war:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7099631.stm
--
Roland Perry
Tim B
wrote:
Surely 'pedantism' means dislike of pedants? as in racism etc.
Paul Rudin
They may be wider than the average for Cambridge. From memory I don't
think they're 2m - at least not mostly.
They also feature wonderful parked-car dooring zones; which I imagine
are not recommended.
Mickey Mouse
> Surely 'pedantism' means dislike of pedants? as in racism etc.
The -ism suffix doesn't denote a dislike.
"The suffix -ism denotes a distinctive system of beliefs, myth, doctrine
or theory that guides a social movement, institution, class or group"
Sarah Brown
John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Nah, excessive pendantism will never die - unless we all follow my modest
>proposal whereby we find the pedants and then break every bone in their
>bodies.
Whilst screaming, "HOW DOES THAT FEEL? EH? HOW *DOES* THAT FEEL? WHAT
GOOD IS BEING RIGHT DOING YOU NOW, F*CKER? ROYALE WITH CHEESE, F*CK
YEAH!", perchance?
John Burnham
>
> Whilst screaming, "HOW DOES THAT FEEL? EH? HOW *DOES* THAT FEEL? WHAT
> GOOD IS BEING RIGHT DOING YOU NOW, F*CKER? ROYALE WITH CHEESE, F*CK
> YEAH!", perchance?
I can see the merits in that.
Or there is the alternative approach of saying very little, but smiling a
lot - see Audition (dir Takahashi Miike) for more details.
J
Martin
On Mon, 6 Oct 2008, Paul Rudin wrote:
> They also feature wonderful parked-car dooring zones; which I imagine
> are not recommended.
Not by national guidance, but Colin knows better than that, as previous
discussions here have shown in the context of those outside the Botanic
Gardens.
Martin
Brian Morrison
OOI, have you or anyone else you know actually been doored there? I used
to drive along Trumpington Road twice a day for a couple of years and
have never seen a cyclist doored there in that time.
I'm just wondering how prevalent being doored is.
--
Brian
Paul Rudin
I don't know about Huntingdon road specifically, but it does account for
a reasonable percentage of cyclist serious injuries. See e.g.
<http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Pedal-Cyclist-Casualties-04-05.pdf>
table 14.
judith
wrote:
Have you ever wondered why the name "*mandatory* cycle lane" was
chosen?
If you didn't know what one was and your were asked - what would you
guess?
It is purely a matter of time.
Roland Perry
Mon, 6 Oct 2008, judith <judit...@live.co.uk> remarked:
>>>"The Traffic Management Act 2004 (Schedule 7) specifies cycle lanes
>>>among the traffic signs subject to civil enforcement of moving traffic
>>>contraventions. Regulations enabling local authorities to take up these
>>>powers are expected to be available in 2009." and that "Government
>>>intends to publish a consultation shortly".
>>
>>So does that mean that [post 2009] if someone *drives* in a mandatory
>>cycle lane only the LAPE wardens can take action?
>
>Have you ever wondered why the name "*mandatory* cycle lane" was
>chosen?
>
>If you didn't know what one was and your were asked - what would you
>guess?
Because it's mandatory for motor vehicles to stay out of them.
>It is purely a matter of time.
What is?
--
Roland Perry
judith
wrote:
>In message <d0fke4t1n6f848v8i...@4ax.com>, at 17:27:28 on
You would guess that would you? Most odd - everyone I have asked who
didn't know said "it is mandatory for cyclists to use them".
Why not ask some non-cyclists and see what they guess.
Can you think of any other obtuse use of the word mandatory in a
similar context?
How about a "mandatory stop sign" - a certain class of motorist does
not have to obey it?
A "mandatory tax" - certain people do not have to pay it?
I tell you - they were given that "odd" name for one reason only.
>>It is purely a matter of time.
>
>What is?
See above
Tony Finch
>Tim Ward wrote:
>>
>> - cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
WTF?!
>1. Some cyclists don't like double yellows because they "visually narrow
>cycle lanes making them less attractive" and "can undermine the ride
>quality of the kerbside half of the cycle lane". How does Richar Preston
>know this, when he fails to be aware of the major reason often touted
>here: that they compromise the whole effect of a cycle lane as a "keep
>out" to motor vehicles?
WTF?!
All these objections seem wrong-headed to me.
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch <d...@dotat.at> http://dotat.at/
SHANNON ROCKALL MALIN: SOUTH VEERING NORTHWEST 5 TO 7, PERHAPS GALE 8 LATER IN
MALIN. MODERATE OR ROUGH. RAIN, SHOWERS LATER IN SHANNON AND ROCKALL. MODERATE
OR GOOD, OCCASIONALLY POOR.
Tim Ward
news:N9c*Hs...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> Douglas de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>Tim Ward wrote:
>>>
>>> - cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
>
> WTF?!
Slippery when wet. Double yellow lines taking up, with the gutter and the
white line, half the width of a cycle lane guarantee I'll be in the main
carriageway if it's raining.
--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor
Stewart Brodie
> Can you think of any other obtuse use of the word mandatory in a
> similar context?
>
> How about a "mandatory stop sign" - a certain class of motorist does
> not have to obey it?
>
> A "mandatory tax" - certain people do not have to pay it?
>
> I tell you - they were given that "odd" name for one reason only.
How about this: "Note that an implementation is not mandated to implement
all the mandatory requirements."
--
Stewart Brodie
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
<e7ec4e38-b89f-4716...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
timbu...@onetel.net (Tim B) wrote:
> On Oct 5, 2:38 pm, j...@eng.cam.ac.uk (Patrick Gosling) wrote:
> > In article <bK2dnVvk6abHIHXV4p2d...@giganews.com>,
> >
> > <rosenst...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
> > >The report also fails to say why parking attendants don't enforce
> > >loading restrictions, marked by bars on kerbs which have not been
> > >affected by laying down the new cycle lanes. They cover some of
> > >the most offended-against cycle lanes, e.g. Mawson Road next to a
> > >take-away popular with taxi and hire car drivers.
> >
> > I'm struggling with this assertion on two grounds; firstly that
> > Mawson Road has no cycle lanes;
>
> Do keep up at the back -
> http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/location/14389/
> and nearby
A picture clearly showing two kerb yellow bars for the No Loading At Any
Time restriction which LAPE parking attendants should be issuing tickets
on.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Martin
On Mon, 6 Oct 2008, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> > http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/location/14389/
>
> A picture clearly showing two kerb yellow bars for the No Loading At Any
> Time restriction which LAPE parking attendants should be issuing tickets
> on.
Are they Loading?
Martin
Roland Perry
at 08:38:47 on Tue, 7 Oct 2008, Martin <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk>
remarked:
>> > http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/location/14389/
>>
>> A picture clearly showing two kerb yellow bars for the No Loading At Any
>> Time restriction which LAPE parking attendants should be issuing tickets
>> on.
>
>Are they Loading?
Their activities don't amount to loading, but there seems to be an
absence of "No Waiting" lines. Which is where we came in...
However, the presence of "No Loading" bars suggests that whoever painted
them was under the impression that waiting was prohibited (maybe due to
the presence of the bike lane) otherwise the bars are otiose as people
can merely claim they are legally waiting.
--
Roland Perry
Jonathan Amery
>cycle lanes making them less attractive" and "can undermine the ride
>quality of the kerbside half of the cycle lane". How does Richar Preston
>know this, when he fails to be aware of the major reason often touted
>here: that they compromise the whole effect of a cycle lane as a "keep
>out" to motor vehicles?
>
paralelling the cycle line division?
--
Jonathan Amery. And I will praise you Lord, yes I will praise you Lord,
##### and I will sing of all that You have done.
#######__o A joy that knows no limit, a lightness in my spirit,
#######'/ here in the grace of God I stand.
Jonathan Amery
<rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>"On roads where cycle flows and vehicle speeds are low the width may be
>reduced to an absolute minimum of 1.2 metres, subject to a satisfactory
>safety audit."
>
So when is the County going to widen the cycle lane on Short Street
to at least 1.2m?
--
Jonathan Amery. +---------+ ________________ _________________
##### |Cambridge| |# [] ## ## [] # | | # [] ## ## [] #|
#######__o +-+-----+-+ | [] [] | | [] [] |
#######'/ ----------+-----+--------- \-oo----------oo-/+\-oo----------oo-/
Jonathan Amery
Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote:
>So, given a choice of:
>
>(a) pissing off cyclists by doing nothing, or:
>
>(b) pissing off cyclists by putting double yellow lines in cycle lanes, and
>having to cut services elsewhere to pay for it
>
The AJC/Country (and I don't know which) has a track record of
picking (b) over (a) when it comes to cycling facilities (see
cam.transport passim).
--
Jonathan Amery. Even in the darkness
##### There's a light to light your way
#######__o Though the world you knew is gone
#######'/ A world you thought would always stay - Mark Dennis
Brian Morrison
> In article <gca64q$qqn$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
> Douglas de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>> 1. Some cyclists don't like double yellows because they "visually narrow
>> cycle lanes making them less attractive" and "can undermine the ride
>> quality of the kerbside half of the cycle lane". How does Richar Preston
>> know this, when he fails to be aware of the major reason often touted
>> here: that they compromise the whole effect of a cycle lane as a "keep
>> out" to motor vehicles?
>>
> Why not stick the double yellow line in the general traffic lane
> paralelling the cycle line division?
>
Cos then you'll get some idiot parking illegally at the edge of the
cycle lane, obstructing the traffic and still being able to door people
in the cycle lane ;-)
--
Brian
Roland Perry
2008, Brian Morrison <scra...@fenrir.org.uk> remarked:
>> Why not stick the double yellow line in the general traffic lane
>> paralelling the cycle line division?
>
>Cos then you'll get some idiot parking illegally at the edge of the
>cycle lane, obstructing the traffic and still being able to door people
>in the cycle lane ;-)
Yellow Lines apply across the width of the highway (including iirc the
pavement) so that's not actually a loophole (even if some people might
think it is).
--
Roland Perry
Brian Morrison
So you didn't notice I was being flippant then?
--
Brian
Ian Jackson
<rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>A picture clearly showing two kerb yellow bars for the No Loading At Any
>Time restriction which LAPE parking attendants should be issuing tickets
>on.
I see you had time to research and answer this. But apparently you
forgot about the article where you confidently asserted that there are
cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the recommended (2.0m) width.
You were asked where and haven't replied.
So, Colin: where in Cambridge are the cycle lanes that are of the
recommended width ?
--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk (Martin) wrote:
I expect so.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Ian Jackson
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
>[something]
So what about our question about Cambridge cycle lanes, of which you
are so proud ? You seem to be suffering from selective blindness.
Just to remind you since you seem to forget so easily, the question
is: where are these alleged cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the
recommended width (2.0m) ?
J. Chisholm
> Douglas de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Tim Ward wrote:
>>> - cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
> WTF?!
>
> All these objections seem wrong-headed to me.
>
The Statue Law (Traffic Management Act 2004 Section 7) should already
enable
Civil Enforcers to issues penalty charge notices to those who infringe
the law
regarding MCLs. All it needs is for the legislation to be 'enabled' for
cycle
lanes as it has been for bus lanes.
Once you start 'yellow lining' one cycle lane you need to do them all
otherwise motorists (as they already do...) will consider it OK to wait
or unload in such lanes.
It will also enable the enforcement of moving vehicle offences in such
lanes.
I counted 42 vehicles driving down the MCL on Monday between 08:15 and 08:30
Today I lost count of the ones in Shelford, including a School Bus and a
Stagecoach Service bus that drove with two wheels in the Mandatory Cycle
Lane and two on the footway.
When I asked the Southern Division how many tickets had been issued for
infringements of MCLs since August last year I was told TWO.
Nuff Said
Jim
Eleanor Blair
>Ian Jackson wrote:
>>
>>Are there any cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the recommended (2m) width ?
>
>Hills Road must come close in places. And Trumpington Road (on the way
>out, once you get past the bus lanes).
In fact I realised I had a tape measure in the office, so I stopped at
several points on Trumpington Road on the way out of town to check the
width where it seemed particularly generously wide.
Lensfield Road to Bateman Street: 1.7m
Brooklands Ave to the bus lane: 1.6m
Immediately after Long Road: 1.6m
However I was appalled to notes that the advisory lane which is marked
within the bus lane itself is only 0.98m.
Continuing on my way home I thought I'd check the mandatory lanes on
Shelford/Cambridge Road, which seem reasonable if not generous, and they
came in at around 1.3-1.45m (3 spots). Except where it narrows to 1.0m
on the approach to the bridge over the railway at Shelford.
Even worse, the advisory lane on the bridge itself is only 0.9m wide.
All these measurements were taken with my bike safely parked off the
road, and in gaps in the traffic, using a good quality steel tape
measure, and measuring from the top of the kerb to the outside of the
white line. This gives the most generous possible measurement for each
lane, especially on Shelford Road where the kerbs are sloped back rather
than vertical.
I believe Ian was going to have a look at the ones on Hills Road, but
now I suspect that they too are around 1.7m rather than 2m.
Paul Rudin
> Ian Jackson wrote:
>>In article <WvmdneaUk-6...@giganews.com>,
>> <rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>>>2m is the recommended width, the minimum is 1.5m, surely?
>>
>>Are there any cycle lanes in Cambridge which are the recommended width ?
>
> Hills Road must come close in places.
For some values of "close". I doubt it actually reaches 2m anywhere.
Eleanor Blair
>>Tim Ward wrote:
>>>
>>> - cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
>
>WTF?!
Personally I think if you're going to put double yellows in mandatory
bike lanes you'll have to do *all* of them, because if not then some
drivers will (incorrectly) conclude that if it doesn't have the lines in
they're allowed to park on it. And of course the lanes without the
yellow lines in will be the only ones the parking enforcement people
can't enforce.
Tim Ward
news:MZD*zR...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>
> Why not stick the double yellow line in the general traffic lane
> paralelling the cycle line division?
Read the report. (Admittedly no evidence is given.)
Paul Rudin
> "Jonathan Amery" <jda...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:MZD*zR...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>>
>> Why not stick the double yellow line in the general traffic lane
>> paralelling the cycle line division?
>
> ...(Admittedly no evidence is given.)
That's rather the trouble - vague assertions without the backing of any
evidence, and no specific recommendations. Nevertheless you get the
impression that the intention is to prepare the ground for a number of
things - like putting double yellows in cycle lanes.
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
jda...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Jonathan Amery) wrote:
> In article <34idnU0Ad-bHIHXV...@giganews.com>,
> <rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
> >"On roads where cycle flows and vehicle speeds are low the width may
> >be reduced to an absolute minimum of 1.2 metres, subject to a
> >satisfactory safety audit."
> >
> So when is the County going to widen the cycle lane on Short Street
> to at least 1.2m?
When they can widen the road to accommodate two 3m lanes for buses?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk () wrote:
> > In article <gccin0$j93$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
> > J. Chisholm <jc...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >I can quote from a letter I recieved from DfT in March:
> > >
> > >"The Traffic Management Act 2004 (Schedule 7) specifies cycle lanes
> > >among the traffic signs subject to civil enforcement of moving
> > >traffic contraventions. Regulations enabling local authorities to
> > >take up these powers are expected to be available in 2009." and that
> > >"Government intends to publish a consultation shortly".
> >
> > I'm guessing that no one has seen hide nor hare of the
> > consultation?
>
> Don't be silly. They'd had three more transport ministers since then!
County Council officers advised councillors today that they have been told
more recently by the DfT that these powers are more likely to be available
in 2010, not 2009.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Perry) wrote:
This is one of the streets where cycle lanes were added to streets with
existing waiting and loading restrictions.
Had the County Council not also decided to colour the cycle lanes red the
yellow lines would still be showing. The kerb tick marks were unaffected
by all this paintwork of course.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
ele...@the-blairs.co.uk (Eleanor Blair) wrote:
> Tony Finch wrote:
> >>Tim Ward wrote:
> >>>
> >>> - cyclists don't want double yellow lines in mandatory cycle lanes
> >
> >WTF?!
>
> Personally I think if you're going to put double yellows in mandatory
> bike lanes you'll have to do *all* of them, because if not then some
> drivers will (incorrectly) conclude that if it doesn't have the lines in
> they're allowed to park on it. And of course the lanes without the
> yellow lines in will be the only ones the parking enforcement people
> can't enforce.
You correctly describe part of the problem. Once the very same parking
attendants can enforce infringement of MCLs under the Traffic Management
Act 2004 the yellow lines will no longer be necessary of course.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
jda...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Jonathan Amery) wrote:
> In article <gca64q$qqn$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
> Douglas de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> >1. Some cyclists don't like double yellows because they "visually
> >narrow cycle lanes making them less attractive" and "can undermine
> >the ride quality of the kerbside half of the cycle lane". How does
> >Richard Preston know this, when he fails to be aware of the major
> >reason often touted here: that they compromise the whole effect of
> >a cycle lane as a "keep out" to motor vehicles?
> >
> Why not stick the double yellow line in the general traffic lane
> paralelling the cycle line division?
Legally, yellow lines have to be next to the kerb or if there is no kerb
at the edge of the carriageway, or so councillors were advised today.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
>> >> > http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/location/14389/
>> >>
>> >> A picture clearly showing two kerb yellow bars for the No Loading At
>> >> Any Time restriction which LAPE parking attendants should be issuing
>> >> tickets on.
>> >
>> >Are they Loading?
>>
>> Their activities don't amount to loading, but there seems to be an
>> absence of "No Waiting" lines. Which is where we came in...
>>
>> However, the presence of "No Loading" bars suggests that whoever
>> painted them was under the impression that waiting was prohibited
>> (maybe due to the presence of the bike lane) otherwise the bars are
>> otiose as people can merely claim they are legally waiting.
>
>This is one of the streets where cycle lanes were added to streets with
>existing waiting and loading restrictions.
>
>Had the County Council not also decided to colour the cycle lanes red the
>yellow lines would still be showing. The kerb tick marks were unaffected
>by all this paintwork of course.
So they could just re-paint the lines. Are the "No Waiting" signs still
displayed?
--
Roland Perry
Jon Warbrick
<no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>County Council officers advised councillors today that they have been told
>more recently by the DfT that these powers are more likely to be available
>in 2010, not 2009.
<cynic>
It's an interesting approach to populist politics, isn't it? Enact
the legislation, so you can point out all the good things you have
done and how you are listening to the electorate, but then don't
actually bring it into force so there is no danger of it
inconveniencing anyone. If anyone notices, say that you are awaiting
the outcome of a consultation (though unfortunately this has been
delayed).
</cynic>
--
Jon Warbrick
Robin Stevens
> jda...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Jonathan Amery) wrote:
> > So when is the County going to widen the cycle lane on Short Street
> > to at least 1.2m?
> When they can widen the road to accommodate two 3m lanes for buses?
If the road isn't wide enough to have a cycle lane of even the "absolute
minimum" width, then what fool decided to put one there anyway?
--
Robin Stevens <re...@cynic.org.uk>
---- http://www.cynic.org.uk/ ----
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Warbrick) wrote:
Eh? The bringing into effect of the law is a matter for Ministers, not
Councils.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Perry) wrote:
Except for the issues about yellow lines in cycle lanes already mentioned
here, dangerous when wet, some lanes having lines and others not being
confusing, and so on.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Jon Warbrick
<no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>Eh? The bringing into effect of the law is a matter for Ministers, not
>Councils.
Indeed - it was a comment on National, rather than Local,
politics. While I'm aware that it is unusual in this forum, it wasn't
intended as a criticism of you or any of the local councils. Sorry if
it didn't read the way I intended.
Jon.
--
Jon Warbrick
Ian Jackson
<no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>[ something about narrow cycle lanes ]
Colin: you are in danger of looking like you're arguing in bad faith.
When the question was raised, you categorically asserted that there
were cycle lanes in Cambridge that were of the recommended 2.0 width.
Many of us were sceptical, so we asked where, but you have not
replied.
You have however found plenty of time to argue other points when it
serves your purposes.
You must do one of these things:
* stop posting because evidently you're too busy
* find out where these mythical good cycle lanes are and tell us
* admit that you don't know of any cycle lanes in
Cambridge that are of the recommended width
By failing to do so you are bringing the Liberal Democrats into
disrepute, which as a member of the party I strongly object to.
Ian Jackson
What does the phrase `absolute minimum' mean to you ?
Jonathan Amery
<no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Legally, yellow lines have to be next to the kerb or if there is no kerb
>at the edge of the carriageway, or so councillors were advised today.
>
As much as I hate to rely on Roland, Roland disagrees with that:
<zUl9Aib2...@perry.co.uk>
--
Jonathan D. Amery, http://www.pick.ucam.org/~jdamery/ #####
"Oh, my God," Senji said again. "Don't keep saying that, you o__#######
don't even know who your God is." "But you will Senji, and once \'#######
you have met him you will follow Him all the days of your life" - D. Eddings
Roland Perry
on Wed, 8 Oct 2008,
no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk
remarked:
>> So they could just re-paint the lines. Are the "No Waiting" signs
>> still displayed?
>
>Except for the issues about yellow lines in cycle lanes already mentioned
>here, dangerous when wet,
Use the same sort of paint as the red lane marking.
>some lanes having lines and others not being confusing, and so on.
Who is likely to be confused - people illegally parking on the yellow
lines? Seems a pretty poor excuse.
--
Roland Perry
Paul Rudin
> In article <F4ydnVUribGubnbV...@giganews.com>,
> <no-spam-for-jjehghbmhb...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Legally, yellow lines have to be next to the kerb or if there is no kerb
>>at the edge of the carriageway, or so councillors were advised today.
>>
>
> As much as I hate to rely on Roland, Roland disagrees with that:
> <zUl9Aib2...@perry.co.uk>
I don't think that's what he's saying. There are two points:
1. Lines need to be painted near the kerb.
2. The parking restiction indicated by lines applies across the width of
the highway.