Raging Cyclist councillor ROSENSTIEL?
Paul
So here is a video of what i saw .......
after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
the top of his voice
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
Daveyboy
Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
our local, genial councilor
I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he
was the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
camjay
The poor guy does seem a bit nonplussed.
camjay
I wouldn't blame him for getting angry per se, it just seems he is
taking it out on the wrong guy. As a city councillor one would have
thought that he would be in better postion than most of us to ensure
the *appropriate* action is taken against illegal parking outside that
pub.
Ian Jackson
Is that a video you took ? It's a bit hard to see to get a positive
identification and I haven't met Colin Rosenstiel, that I remember,
anyway.
It is quite an astonishing piece of footage.
--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
Peter Hall
poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
bad man rosenstiel
"Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
Martin
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Ian Jackson wrote:
I assume this is at the Revolution pub, an absolute hotspot for illegal
deliveries:
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/gallery/13/
> Is that a video you took ? It's a bit hard to see to get a positive
> identification and I haven't met Colin Rosenstiel, that I remember,
> anyway.
That seems pretty clearly like Colin to me.
Personally if I were Colin, I would have made clear what status Colin has
on the city council and that his actions are a breach of the law and could
affect the pub's licence, so that he might want to move quick sharp, and
in future deliver on the yellow lines round the corner.
Martin
>
> It is quite an astonishing piece of footage.
>
> --
> Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
> PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
>
Martin
Martin
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall wrote:
> Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
Thankfully not, from what I can see. At no point does Colin's arm seem to
be in physical contact with the driver of the illegally stopped vehicle.
> Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
I'd call it a heated argument, road rage if you like. Any cyclist using
that route could probably relate quite well to his anger, though I think
Colin is probably taking it a little too heated here.
>
> bad man rosenstiel
>
>
> "Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> >I could not believe my eyes ..........
> >
> > So here is a video of what i saw .......
> > after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
> > the top of his voice
> >
> > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
> >
>
>
>
Martin
Martin
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Daveyboy wrote:
> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>
> our local, genial councilor
>
> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he was
> the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
So are you condoning the driver's illegal behaviour?
Colin's response to that is a separate matter.
Martin
Roland Perry
Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
his job.
--
Roland Perry
Brian
offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT conduct that our
Councillors should be involved - he has NO authority to do or say what he
has and should be at least repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
Brian.
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...
Simon Morris
True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether it's
Colin Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver after 7.30am.
Is that clear at the roadside, or is it up to the deliveree to make sure
that the deliverer knows?
S.
Martin
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Simon Morris wrote:
> True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether it's
> Colin Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver after 7.30am.
> Is that clear at the roadside, or is it up to the deliveree to make sure
> that the deliverer knows?
Irrespective of CR's specific complaint, the deliverer is in a Mandatory
Cycle Lane, which is an offence, one of the "MUST NOT" bits of the Highway
Code.
The fact there is a delivery ban after 7.30am is an additional, planning
enforcement, matter.
There are yellow lines round the corner in Downing Place, from which
deliveries can legally (and much more considerately) be done, if the
delivery operative can be bothered to walk 20 metres or so.
Martin
Martin
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Brian wrote:
> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a criminal
> offence for which people have been imprisoned.
Is Road Rage a criminal offence? Surely malicious intent to cause harm to
a person or property, involving violent acts, which in more extreme cases
could be called road rage, would be the offence if such things happened?
> This is NOT conduct that our Councillors should be involved - he has NO
> authority to do or say what he has and should be at least repremanded
> for this 'loss of self control'
>
> Brian.
>
>
> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...
> > In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
> > Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
> >
> >>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
> >
> > It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
> > his job.
> > --
> > Roland Perry
>
>
>
Martin
Tony Raven
> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a criminal
> offence for which people have been imprisoned.
There is AFAIK, no offence of "road rage". There are offences that can
be committed during road rage such as assault but that's it.
This is NOT conduct that our
> Councillors should be involved - he has NO authority to do or say what he
> has and should be at least repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
>
What did he say - when I viewed it there didn't seem to be a sound track
although maybe it was a finger or software problem.
The van driver was clearly committing an offence and was probably
unwilling to do anything about it and it is all too easy to lose it
confronted by such a situation. I always make a special effort not to
go there, such as when I met face to face yesterday a car driving onto a
cycle path to park, but not everyone succeeds.
Tony
RealMart
> Irrespective of CR's specific complaint, the deliverer is in a Mandatory
> Cycle Lane, which is an offence, one of the "MUST NOT" bits of the Highway
> Code.
>
> The fact there is a delivery ban after 7.30am is an additional, planning
> enforcement, matter.
>
> There are yellow lines round the corner in Downing Place, from which
> deliveries can legally (and much more considerately) be done, if the
> delivery operative can be bothered to walk 20 metres or so.
>
I don't think anyone is arguing the driver wasn't in the wrong.
The reaction of the shouty man on the bike is clearly over the top.
I see little difference between a delivery driver parking in a cycle
lane to make a delivery and - for example - a cyclist cycling on the
pavement. Both inconsiderate to other people, and both could probably
better be dealt with by talking than shouting.
Using physical force is inexcusable and - in my view - a little
pathetic. "Pick on someone your own size" springs to mind.
J. Chisholm
Not only is the driver breaking the Law by stopping to unload in a
Mandatory Contraflow Cycle Lane (and I've confirmed with the authorities
that there is no exception for unloading), but there is a planning
restriction that does not permit any deliveries to these premises after
07:30.
I didn't think anyone had the RIGHT to break the Law, and anyone who
challenges law breakers should be respected.
Unfortunately neither the Police nor the CCTV staff seem to care a damn,
and I sometimes wonder what we pay them for.
People should be made aware that the Revolution may be submitting a
planning application to relax the restriction on deliveries, even though
that won't make deliveries from the cycle lane any more legal.
Note:
This morning I also saw a TNT Lorry illegally stopped unloaded at the
same spot.
see:
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/location/11329/
Jim Chisholm
Martin
Peter, or should I say Paul,
Is there some reason why you appear to be replying to your own post,
seemingly using a different e-mail address? Header extracts:
Message-ID: <Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net>
From: Paul <Pa...@mail.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.98.241.214
Message-ID: <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>
From: "Peter Hall" <pe...@mail.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.98.241.214
nslookup 81.98.241.214 gives:
cpc2-cmbg4-0-0-cust469.cmbg.cable.ntl.com.
Martin
Martin
Tony Raven
>
> I see little difference between a delivery driver parking in a cycle
> lane to make a delivery and - for example - a cyclist cycling on the
> pavement.
Is that a pavement with our without white paint on it? Only one is
legal and the other isn't.
Tony
Jules
> I wouldn't blame him for getting angry per se, it just seems he is
> taking it out on the wrong guy. As a city councillor one would have
> thought that he would be in better postion than most of us to ensure
> the *appropriate* action is taken against illegal parking outside that
> pub.
Everyone has off days and screws up once in a while - the trick
is to not make a habit of it, I suppose.
Doesn't seem like a big deal to me; if the driver hadn't been illegally
stopped there in the first place then the whole event wouldn't even have
happened. Good on Colin (if it was Colin) for setting the guy straight,
even if he was a little grumpy about it :-)
Colin Rosenstiel
mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk (Martin) wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
> I assume this is at the Revolution pub, an absolute hotspot for
> illegal deliveries:
> http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/gallery/13/
>
> > Is that a video you took ? It's a bit hard to see to get a
> > positive identification and I haven't met Colin Rosenstiel, that
> > I remember, anyway.
>
> That seems pretty clearly like Colin to me.
>
> Personally if I were Colin, I would have made clear what status
> Colin has on the city council and that his actions are a breach of
> the law and could affect the pub's licence, so that he might want
> to move quick sharp, and in future deliver on the yellow lines
> round the corner.
That was all done before the video started of course. He insisted on
carrying on with his lawbreaking. Your Cycling Campaign colleague Lisa
Woodburn is also in the video, taking still pictures.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Colin Rosenstiel
(Brian) wrote:
> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a
> criminal offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT
> conduct that our Councillors should be involved - he has NO
> authority to do or say what he has and should be at least
> repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
The video only shows the end of an altercation. No offence was committed
except by the driver.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Colin Rosenstiel
Perry) wrote:
Precisely. The conversation before the video started consisted of
explaining that to him and directing him to the yard which the pub has
for deliveries. He was ignoring that advice.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Colin Rosenstiel
Chisholm) wrote:
> People should be made aware that the Revolution may be submitting a
> planning application to relax the restriction on deliveries, even
> though that won't make deliveries from the cycle lane any more legal.
They need to do this because the present restriction is defective. Even
deliveries to the pub's yard (to which there is no reasonable objection)
are covered by that after 07:30 ban, This is the oversight that clearly
needs to be resolved.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Colin Rosenstiel
Indeed. He was using a trolley for his deliveries anyway!
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Ian Jackson
Colin Rosenstiel <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>That was all done before the video started of course. He insisted on
>carrying on with his lawbreaking. Your Cycling Campaign colleague Lisa
>Woodburn is also in the video, taking still pictures.
So you agree it was you. I'm amazed that you don't seem at all
contrite. Looking at the video you seem to strike the driver's arm
with the van door as you close it. Am I correct ?
IMO illegal parking is no excuse for this behaviour from you. I would
have expected that as a councillor you might have tried to get the law
enforced rather than take it into your own hands like this.
Al Grant
> Precisely. The conversation before the video started consisted of
> explaining that to him and directing him to the yard which the pub has
> for deliveries. He was ignoring that advice.
But what does that prove? I have been physically stopped
from cycling down Trinity St (when there was no ban) and
'advised' that it was illegal to cycle there.
I didn't ignore it, I responded with the facts (which were
ignored). ISTM that the van driver is taking the least
confrontational approach. Possibly this is precisely the
approach that the police would advise any motorist to
take when confronted by someone else with no evident
authority to order them to do something.
You are right to be frustrated at the complete inability of
both police and council to do anything about this flouting
of the law, which has been going on for years, but frankly
you are in a better position to do anything about it through
proper channels than just about anyone else in Cambridge.
Or you could have gone inside the pub and demanded to
speak to the duty manager. If he had then ignored you
that would have been another black mark against the pub
to be taken account of when its license comes up - rather
than the activities of some random van driver that the
pub can disclaim all responsibility for.
The job of enforcing road law should be left to people in
uniform, for purely practical reasons if nothing else (if it
turns into a fight, it helps bystanders know whose side
to be on).
Patrick Gosling
Colin Rosenstiel <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>except by the driver.
My (unqualified, amateur) understanding of the relevant laws suggests to
me that people should be cautious of emulating your behaviour, since
they would be at non-trivial risk of being successfully prosecuted for
the offence of common assault, if someone wanted to make a point.
-patrick.
Daveyboy
>On 13 Aug, 22:27, Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:49:53 GMT, "Paul" <P...@mail.com> wrote:
>> >I could not believe my eyes ..........
>>
>> >So here is a video of what i saw .......
>> >after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
>> >the top of his voice
>>
>> >http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
>>
>> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>>
>> our local, genial councilor
>>
>> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he
>> was the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
>
>I wouldn't blame him for getting angry
so you CONDONE him hitting the delivery driver twice with his door?
Daveyboy
TYPICAL if a driver had done the self same thing to a cyclist there
would be uproar, yet our Colin gets your support
Daveyboy
wrote:
>
>
>On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Daveyboy wrote:
>
>> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>>
>> our local, genial councilor
>>
>> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he was
>> the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
>
>So are you condoning the driver's illegal behaviour?
No, but the he didn't assault Colin!
>
>Colin's response to that is a separate matter.
>
>
>Martin
NO Colin's behavior ISN'T a separate matter, it is Colin's response to
the situation that is being highlighted here
Daveyboy
So she has "still" picture evidence of you assaulting the driver then
Colin
Daveyboy
<ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>In article <memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk>,
>Colin Rosenstiel <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>>That was all done before the video started of course. He insisted on
>>carrying on with his lawbreaking. Your Cycling Campaign colleague Lisa
>>Woodburn is also in the video, taking still pictures.
>
>So you agree it was you. I'm amazed that you don't seem at all
>contrite. Looking at the video you seem to strike the driver's arm
>with the van door as you close it. Am I correct ?
>
>IMO illegal parking is no excuse for this behaviour from you. I would
>have expected that as a councillor you might have tried to get the law
>enforced rather than take it into your own hands like this.
Unfortunately I do not have video evidence, but I have seen Colin
behave like this before, when I was on the taxi rank in Station Road,
he cycled past another delivery driver hurling abuse at him again, we
are starting to see a pattern of behavior here Colin
Daveyboy
wrote:
>
>
>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall wrote:
>
>> Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
>
>Thankfully not, from what I can see. At no point does Colin's arm seem to
>be in physical contact with the driver of the illegally stopped vehicle.
>
>
>> Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
>
>I'd call it a heated argument, road rage if you like. Any cyclist using
>that route could probably relate quite well to his anger, though I think
>Colin is probably taking it a little too heated here.
You need to watch the video again, you can see clearly, that when
Colin forces the second rear door shut, he uses the door as a means to
batter the driver out of the way!
>
>
>
>>
>> bad man rosenstiel
>>
>>
>> "Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>> >I could not believe my eyes ..........
>> >
>> > So here is a video of what i saw .......
>> > after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
>> > the top of his voice
>> >
>> > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Martin
Daveyboy
wrote:
And so must Colin obey the law when he is dealing with a situation
like this
J. Chisholm
What has he done to the illegal driver, apart from giving him a mouthful?
I've given mouthfulls to illegal drivers and cyclists, although I do try
and keep my cool. I usually get far worse back. (including from the
Manager of the Revolution)
I can still remember the time I told off a fellow cyclist for going
through a red light and was told "F off old man".
I certainly wasn't the first time I'd been told to F off, and I've
learnt to ignore it, but I was very hurt to be called an Old Man!
Jim Chisholm
Daveyboy
Rosenstiel) wrote:
You rammed the driver with the rear door, that assault, and that my
friend is an offence
Daveyboy
wrote:
>
>
>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Simon Morris wrote:
>
>> True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether it's
>> Colin Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver after 7.30am.
>> Is that clear at the roadside, or is it up to the deliveree to make sure
>> that the deliverer knows?
>
>Irrespective of CR's specific complaint, the deliverer is in a Mandatory
>Cycle Lane, which is an offence, one of the "MUST NOT" bits of the Highway
>Code.
I am sure it says in LAW that you must not cause common assault to
anyone, as Colin did to the driver, ramming the door into the driver
twice before getting it shut, then we must look at his abusive and
threatening behavior...
Daveyboy
wrote:
>Peter Hall wrote:
>> I like the video very well done
>> poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>> Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
>> Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
>>
>> bad man rosenstiel
>>
>>
>> "Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>>> I could not believe my eyes ..........
>>>
>>> So here is a video of what i saw .......
>>> after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
>>> the top of his voice
>>>
>>> http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
>>>
>>
>
>
>Not only is the driver breaking the Law by stopping to unload in a
>Mandatory Contraflow Cycle Lane (and I've confirmed with the authorities
>that there is no exception for unloading), but there is a planning
>restriction that does not permit any deliveries to these premises after
>07:30.
>
>I didn't think anyone had the RIGHT to break the Law, and anyone who
>challenges law breakers should be respected.
even if that person breaks the law by assaulting the driver?
>
>Unfortunately neither the Police nor the CCTV staff seem to care a damn,
>and I sometimes wonder what we pay them for.
>
>People should be made aware that the Revolution may be submitting a
>planning application to relax the restriction on deliveries, even though
>that won't make deliveries from the cycle lane any more legal.
>
>Note:
>This morning I also saw a TNT Lorry illegally stopped unloaded at the
>same spot.
Did you stop, and ram the delivery drivers arm twice with the door of
his van?
Daveyboy
wrote:
>Daveyboy wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:58:52 +0100, Jules
>> <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:17:16 -0700, camjay wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't blame him for getting angry per se, it just seems he is
>>>> taking it out on the wrong guy. As a city councillor one would have
>>>> thought that he would be in better postion than most of us to ensure
>>>> the *appropriate* action is taken against illegal parking outside that
>>>> pub.
>>> Everyone has off days and screws up once in a while - the trick
>>> is to not make a habit of it, I suppose.
>>>
>>> Doesn't seem like a big deal to me; if the driver hadn't been illegally
>>> stopped there in the first place then the whole event wouldn't even have
>>> happened. Good on Colin (if it was Colin) for setting the guy straight,
>>> even if he was a little grumpy about it :-)
>>>
>>>
>> TYPICAL if a driver had done the self same thing to a cyclist there
>> would be uproar, yet our Colin gets your support
>
>What has he done to the illegal driver, apart from giving him a mouthful?
Hit the driver twice with the rear door of the van... watch the video
again
Roland Perry
Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Brian <Br...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>You have said that this is 'road rage' at best
No I haven't.
>- well, thats a criminal
>offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT conduct that our
>Councillors should be involved - he has NO authority to do or say what he
>has and should be at least repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
I have refrained from commenting on that aspect.
>"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...
>> In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
>> Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>>
>> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
>> his job.
>> --
>> Roland Perry
>
>
--
Roland Perry
Ian Jackson
Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Looking at the video you seem to strike the driver's arm
>with the van door as you close it. Am I correct ?
In fact, looking at it again in slow motion and expanded, it seems
pretty clear to me.
At 14.3s in the clip you have just grasped the door with your left
hand, reaching over the driver's right shoulder with your arm going
past his head. The door wobbles slightly.
At 15.0s the door starts to move towards you.
At 15.4s the door has caught behind the driver's shoulder and as a
result the driver's body starts to move forward and to his right while
turning to his left.
At 15.6s the driver is clearly quite off balance, facing along the
road away from the van; he flings out his left arm to avoid falling.
At 16.1s the driver is facing away from you to his left, and has
stepped backwards as a result of the shove from the door.
At 17.3s he has clearly regained his balance and is turning to face
you while backing off.
docto...@hotmail.com
> In article <sKD*9J...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
>
> > Looking at the video you seem to strike the driver's arm
> >with the van door as you close it. Am I correct ?
>
> In fact, looking at it again in slow motion and expanded, it seems
> pretty clear to me.
>
> At 14.3s in the clip you have just grasped the door with your left
> hand, reaching over the driver's right shoulder with your arm going
> past his head. The door wobbles slightly.
>
> At 15.0s the door starts to move towards you.
>
> At 15.4s the door has caught behind the driver's shoulder and as a
> result the driver's body starts to move forward and to his right while
> turning to his left.
>
> At 15.6s the driver is clearly quite off balance, facing along the
> road away from the van; he flings out his left arm to avoid falling.
>
> At 16.1s the driver is facing away from you to his left, and has
> stepped backwards as a result of the shove from the door.
>
> At 17.3s he has clearly regained his balance and is turning to face
> you while backing off.
>
> --
> These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
> PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
I and others have seen him do this before in the past to drivers. I'm
just glad someone caught it on video for all to see. I think Col needs
an anger management course or step down from the council as it seems
to be stressing him to much and is neither healthy for him or anyone
around him to be subjected to this sort of behavior and cirtainly not
conducive to being a 'liberal' leader of the Lib Dems
mike
> stopped there in the first place then the whole event wouldn't even have
> happened. Good on Colin (if it was Colin) for setting the guy straight,
> even if he was a little grumpy about it :-)
>
>
>sidney st the wrong way a motorist has the right to clump him.
Mike
mike
"Martin" <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.07...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk...
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Daveyboy wrote:
>
>> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>>
>> our local, genial councilor
>>
>> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he was
>> the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
>
> So are you condoning the driver's illegal behaviour?
>
>
>
> Martin
illegal or not, the law is the law and rosenstiel does not have the right to
do as he did
mike
Daveyboy
For once mike I am in complete agreement with you, I think its
disgusting behavior, and even tho we have traded blows (verbally of
course) on here about various subjects, this time, we are singing from
the same hymn sheet
mike
>
> Personally if I were Colin, I would have made clear what status Colin has
> on the city council and that his actions are a breach of the law and could
> affect the pub's licence, so that he might want to move quick sharp, and
> in future deliver on the yellow lines round the corner.
It matters not what rosenstiels position is on the council, Its Assult
criminal damage and road rage,
mike
mike
"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
> In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.07...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>,
> mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk (Martin) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>
>> I assume this is at the Revolution pub, an absolute hotspot for
>> illegal deliveries:
>> http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/gallery/13/
>>
>> > Is that a video you took ? It's a bit hard to see to get a
>> > positive identification and I haven't met Colin Rosenstiel, that
>> > I remember, anyway.
>>
>>
>> Personally if I were Colin, I would have made clear what status
>> Colin has on the city council and that his actions are a breach of
>> the law and could affect the pub's licence, so that he might want
>> to move quick sharp, and in future deliver on the yellow lines
>> round the corner.
>
> carrying on with his lawbreaking. Your Cycling Campaign colleague Lisa
> Woodburn is also in the video, taking still pictures.
>
> Colin Rosenstiel
So what right do you have to Assault the guy, cause criminal damage and road
rage,
mike
mike
"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
>> criminal offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT
>> conduct that our Councillors should be involved - he has NO
>> authority to do or say what he has and should be at least
>> repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
>
> except by the driver.
>
> Colin Rosenstiel
Best you go to vission express then, even the police have said several
offences have taken place.and we the public voted you in, your nothing but
trash and deserve to be punished.
mike
Daveyboy
and to back up what Mike has said
The term ‘road rage’ which is believed to have originated in America
has become increasingly more common in the UK. It generally refers to
displays of aggression by drivers. These displays can take a variety
of forms. The most common forms are as follows:
* Flashing headlights;
* Driving within inches of the car in front which is known as
‘tailgating’;
* Aggressive use of the horn;
******************************************************************
* Verbal abuse;
* Aggressive gestures;
* Physical attack on other drivers and their vehicles;
******************************************************************
* Cutting up the vehicle in front after overtaking it.
this excerpt was taken from
http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dt/browse/law/lawguide/road-safety/road-rage/S75993-35273X/
and I have made obvious (the 3 together in the * box) IMO what Colin
did and constitutes road rage
mike
>
> IMO illegal parking is no excuse for this behaviour from you. I would
> have expected that as a councillor you might have tried to get the law
> enforced rather than take it into your own hands like this.
>
mike
steve
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...
> In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
> Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>
>>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>
> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
> his job.
> --
> Roland Perry
Then its up to rosenstiel to call the police not cause road rage and take it
into his own hands, i expect this sort of behaviour from the BNP and if it
did happen it would make front page national press, i dont expect it from
lib dems. in fact the lib dems have now lost my vote and i think its time
rosenstiel went, and if he is a man he would *resign* now
Steve
steve
"Brian" <Br...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lCewi.14966$mo....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a criminal
> offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT conduct that
> our Councillors should be involved - he has NO authority to do or say what
> he has and should be at least repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
>
>
Out with rosenstiel i say, untill the man has gone you have lost my vote.
Steve
steve
"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
> Chisholm) wrote:
>
>> People should be made aware that the Revolution may be submitting a
>> planning application to relax the restriction on deliveries, even
>> though that won't make deliveries from the cycle lane any more legal.
>
> deliveries to the pub's yard (to which there is no reasonable objection)
> are covered by that after 07:30 ban, This is the oversight that clearly
> needs to be resolved.
>
> --
> Colin Rosenstiel
Stop trying to worm out of it rosenstiel, your nothing but scum a common
criminal been caught in the act, if you was a real man you would resign and
try to save the party.
steve
Daveyboy
Lets face it, Charles Kennedy had a drink, and resigned, he didn't
assault a motorist, time to go Colin??
Robin Stevens
> Out with rosenstiel i say, untill the man has gone you have lost my vote.
> Steve
Ah, good to see our anonymous sockpuppets are back, eh "mark" (or is it
"mike"?)
--
Robin Stevens <re...@cynic.org.uk>
---- http://www.cynic.org.uk/ ----
Daveyboy
<re...@cynic.org.uk> wrote:
>steve <.> wrote in cam.transport:
>
>> Out with rosenstiel i say, untill the man has gone you have lost my vote.
>
>> Steve
>
>Ah, good to see our anonymous sockpuppets are back, eh "mark" (or is it
>"mike"?)
I see you detract completely from the contents of the thread to have a
quick pop at someone, without contributing to the post, what have you
got to say about roseteilgate? (sorry f1 fan and its the way they do
it :))
Andrew May
... if he is a man he would *resign* now
Perhaps if you were a man you would use a real email address to post
from Steve, or should that be Mike?
Has anyone else notice this? That the most vociferous anti-cycling
posters on cam.transport don't have the balls to identify themselves
whereas the most vociferous pro-cycling posters do. Stand up and be
counted.
Daveyboy
and if you watch the video are you surprised, when the likes of Colin
go round abusing motorists, we fear for our safety
Robin Stevens
> I see you detract completely from the contents of the thread to have a
> quick pop at someone, without contributing to the post, what have you
> got to say about roseteilgate?
I don't know of any business involving the Roseteilgate Building, but in
this case, IMHO, the van driver appears to be out of line, as does Colin.
Daveyboy
<re...@cynic.org.uk> wrote:
>Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote in cam.transport:
>
>> I see you detract completely from the contents of the thread to have a
>> quick pop at someone, without contributing to the post, what have you
>> got to say about roseteilgate?
>
>I don't know of any business involving the Roseteilgate Building, but in
>this case, IMHO, the van driver appears to be out of line, as does Colin.
thank you for again pointing out my dyslexia, another pop at someone,
you know full well there should have been an N in there, but wanted to
make me look bad for my knack of spelling things badly? (had to get my
wife to show me where the spelling was wrong)
as to the van driver being out of order... how so, illegally parked
maybe, but I cant see how he was out of order
Colin surpassed out of order by a country mile
docto...@hotmail.com
> Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote in cam.transport:
>
> > I see you detract completely from the contents of the thread to have a
> > quick pop at someone, without contributing to the post, what have you
> > got to say about roseteilgate?
>
> I don't know of any business involving the Roseteilgate Building, but in
> this case, IMHO, the van driver appears to be out of line, as does Colin.
>
> --
> ----http://www.cynic.org.uk/----
I agree with you but there was only one person being aggresive and
intimidating it wasn't the van driver. As I said earlier I have seen
him do this before and it's about time the wider public got to see how
he behaves. He should be ashamed of himself.
Mike Clark
Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote:
Just in case there is any confusion in your mind Daveyboy, I post with
an identifiable email address. The "mike" you are replying to above is
clearly a sock-puppet. But perhaps you knew that already.........?
Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"
Robin Stevens
> >> roseteilgate
> >
> >I don't know of any business involving the Roseteilgate Building, but in
> >this case, IMHO, the van driver appears to be out of line, as does Colin.
> thank you for again pointing out my dyslexia, another pop at someone,
> you know full well there should have been an N in there, but wanted to
> make me look bad for my knack of spelling things badly? (had to get my
> wife to show me where the spelling was wrong)
It wasn't a dig at your spelling, but at the irritating habit of
suffixing things with '-gate' at a whiff of the slightest scandal (eg
"Irangate", "Dianagate", and so forth).
If you want to interpret it as an attack on your spelling, feel free,
but it certainly wasn't intended as such.
Daveyboy
wrote:
>In message <u4j3c3524e9s4c854...@4ax.com>
> Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:38:55 +0100, "mike" <?> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Martin" <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
>> >news:Pine.LNX.4.64.07...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Daveyboy wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>> >>>
>> >>> our local, genial councilor
>> >>>
>> >>> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he was
>> >>> the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
>> >>
>> >> So are you condoning the driver's illegal behaviour?
>> >>
>> >> Colin's response to that is a separate matter.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Martin
>> >
>> >illegal or not, the law is the law and rosenstiel does not have the right to
>> >do as he did
>> >
>> >mike
>> >
>>
>>
>> For once mike I am in complete agreement with you, I think its
>> disgusting behavior, and even tho we have traded blows (verbally of
>> course) on here about various subjects, this time, we are singing from
>> the same hymn sheet
>
>Just in case there is any confusion in your mind Daveyboy, I post with
>an identifiable email address. The "mike" you are replying to above is
>clearly a sock-puppet. But perhaps you knew that already.........?
>
>Mike
no, my apologies I thought it was you, lets face it we have traded a
few verbal blows, why eles would I say, what do you think about the
video footage then
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
>
> Best you go to vission express then, even the police have said several
> offences have taken place.and we the public voted you in, your nothing but
> trash and deserve to be punished.
Did the "police" indicate what offences they believed have taken place?
Martin
These anonymous sock-puppets also only seem to come out when it's to
attack particular Councillors, and not contribute to anything else. Funny
that.
Martin
Daveyboy
did I not put in my original post with the -gate suffix, that this was
due to the fact I am an F1 fan and they do it all the time, it was
lighthearted, or meant to be
Daveyboy
wrote:
so you don't think that Colin's behavior was seriously misjudged then?
how would you feel if a car driver had done a similar thing to a
cyclist and it caught on cam and posted here?
Robin Stevens
> did I not put in my original post with the -gate suffix, that this was
> due to the fact I am an F1 fan and they do it all the time, it was
> lighthearted, or meant to be
They're wrong, too :-)
Mike Clark
Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:59:26 +0100, Mike Clark <mr...@nospam.cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >In message <u4j3c3524e9s4c854...@4ax.com>
> > Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote:
[snip]
> >>
> >> For once mike I am in complete agreement with you, I think its
> >> disgusting behavior, and even tho we have traded blows (verbally of
> >> course) on here about various subjects, this time, we are singing from
> >> the same hymn sheet
> >
> >Just in case there is any confusion in your mind Daveyboy, I post with
> >an identifiable email address. The "mike" you are replying to above is
> >clearly a sock-puppet. But perhaps you knew that already.........?
> >
> >Mike
>
>
> no, my apologies I thought it was you, lets face it we have traded a
> few verbal blows, why eles would I say, what do you think about the
> video footage then
I think all cyclists who use that stretch of road are frustrated at the
total inaction of the authorities in enforcing the traffic and loading
regulations as well as the linked planning consent. If the bar and their
contractor and delivery vehicles didn't so frequently and blatantly
flought the rules and laws they wouldn't have to deal with so many
complaints from irate cyclists.
Councillor Rosenstiel should IMHO not have reacted in the way he did. He
should simply have made a verbal complaint to the driver and bar manager
and then followed this up with complaints to the Council and Police.
Dave Lloyd
>> Doesn't seem like a big deal to me; if the driver hadn't been illegally
>> stopped there in the first place then the whole event wouldn't even have
>> happened. Good on Colin (if it was Colin) for setting the guy straight,
>> even if he was a little grumpy about it :-)
>>
>>
>> What a moron you are, thats like saying everytime a cyclist goes down
>> sidney st the wrong way a motorist has the right to clump him.
> Mike
>
>
Nope. Didn't see Colin clumping the guy. How are those equivalent?
Daveyboy
wrote:
you didn't notice the rear door to the van hitting the driver twice??
Toby Douglass
> I could not believe my eyes ..........
>
> So here is a video of what i saw .......
> after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
> the top of his voice
>
> http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
And so years of hard work, thoughtful service, consideration, tact and
diplomacy are washed away in the instant emotional impact of video.
Toby Douglass
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall wrote:
> > Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
>
> I'd call it a heated argument, road rage if you like. Any cyclist using
> that route could probably relate quite well to his anger, though I think
> Colin is probably taking it a little too heated here.
Maybe he had a bad day. Who knows? all video shows is images. There's
no *understanding*, it's not a white paper where someone or a group of
people have studied in depth and tried to really understand something
and have explained their reasoning and all the related (and often non-
obvious) information.
All you get it "this happened - make of it what you will". And we do,
and we usually get it wrong, because we have no other information and
superimpose our views.
Daveyboy
so because this video footage is of a cyclist abusing a motorist its
now "just a video" but when bike cams are used to show the arrogance
of motorists against them, that is perfectly ok??
Daveyboy
As i said before...
Paul
van thats not on the video is this also aloud by councillors
I hope the driver claims for damages
"Daveyboy" <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:mjq3c3lt2e79p88nv...@4ax.com...
steve
"Daveyboy" <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote in message
Actually im not hiding, its 2 differant people sharing there views from the
same pc, thats why the name is differant, nothing sinister what so ever, the
only thing thats sinister on here is the actions from rosenstiel.
Mike or is it my Colleague Steve
steve
"Simon Morris" <sim...@iptech.no.spam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:46c177af$0$11431$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
> Roland Perry wrote on 14/08/2007 10:00
>> In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
>> Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>>
>> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
>> his job.
>
> True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether it's Colin
> Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver after 7.30am. Is that
> clear at the roadside, or is it up to the deliveree to make sure that the
> deliverer knows?
>
> S.
It dosent matter the van driver was assaulted by a councillor thats the real
issue,
steve
"Daveyboy" <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote in message
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:03:08 +0100, Martin <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Andrew May wrote:
>>
>>> steve wrote:
>>> ... if he is a man he would *resign* now
>>>
>>> Perhaps if you were a man you would use a real email address to post
>>> from
>>> Steve, or should that be Mike?
>>>
>>> Has anyone else notice this? That the most vociferous anti-cycling
>>> posters on
>>> cam.transport don't have the balls to identify themselves whereas the
>>> most
>>> vociferous pro-cycling posters do. Stand up and be counted.
>>
>>These anonymous sock-puppets also only seem to come out when it's to
>>attack particular Councillors, and not contribute to anything else. Funny
>>that.
Martin
Sock puppet or not, the law was taken into the hands of a vicious thug and
nothing less, i dont care if its rosenstiel or mike tyson, the police should
be informed and the matter dealt with in the magistrates courts. its know
differant than a thug beating someone up on a saturday night in the town.
mike, thats mike not my colleague steve.
steve
"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
> In article <ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland
> Perry) wrote:
>
>> In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at
>> 07:14:08 on Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>>
>> >poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>>
>> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when
>> doing his job.
>
> explaining that to him and directing him to the yard which the pub has
> for deliveries. He was ignoring that advice.
>
> --
> Colin Rosenstiel
Before the video started im told you broke his front wing mirror, and there
are several witnesses to that, and so for ignoring your advise does that
warrant assault and criminal damage then. your nothing but a common criminal
and a thug, its time to go rosenstiel, you have done nothing for the good of
this town and now the final straw assaulting a member of the public.
steve this time.
steve
"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
> mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk (Martin) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Simon Morris wrote:
>>
>> > True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether
>> > it's Colin Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver
>> > after 7.30am. Is that clear at the roadside, or is it up to the
>> > deliveree to make sure that the deliverer knows?
>>
>> Mandatory Cycle Lane, which is an offence, one of the "MUST NOT"
>> bits of the Highway Code.
>>
>> The fact there is a delivery ban after 7.30am is an additional,
>> planning enforcement, matter.
>>
>> There are yellow lines round the corner in Downing Place, from
>> which deliveries can legally (and much more considerately) be done,
>> if the delivery operative can be bothered to walk 20 metres or so.
>
> Indeed. He was using a trolley for his deliveries anyway!
>
> --
> Colin Rosenstiel
sod the yellow lines, sod the cycle lane, you caused criminal damage and
assaulted someone, i have never seen such behaviour, we see this all week in
national papers, thug does this thug does that, you disgust me and your not
fit to be a councillor.
Steve
steve
"Rupert Moss-Eccardt" <r.moss-...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:bclwi.6845$ka7...@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
All in good time.
Roland Perry
Tue, 14 Aug 2007, steve <?.?@?.?.invalid> remarked:
>>>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>>
>> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
>> his job.
>
>Then its up to rosenstiel to call the police not cause road rage and take it
>into his own hands,
That wasn't the point I was answering; which was why the driver parked
there in the first place. Special pleading that he *had* to make a
delivery at an illegal time and an illegal place simply doesn't wash.
--
Roland Perry
Matthew Vernon
> as to the van driver being out of order... how so, illegally parked
> maybe, but I cant see how he was out of order
"comitting a criminal act" would seem a plausible metric for "out of
order" to me.
Matthew
--
Rapun.sel - outermost outpost of the Pick Empire
http://www.pick.ucam.org
steve
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Tr9$E6NeZf...@perry.co.uk...
totaly irrelevant, thats like saying what about all the cyclists breaking
the law first thing in the morning going the wrong way in bridge st, the
issue is local councillor assaults man and causes criminal damage to van.
Robin Stevens
> van thats not on the video is this also aloud by councillors
> I hope the driver claims for damages
Was it damaged, then?
Alex Selby
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:54:21 +0100, Martin <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall wrote:
>>
>>> Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
>> Thankfully not, from what I can see. At no point does Colin's arm seem to
>> be in physical contact with the driver of the illegally stopped vehicle.
>>
>>
>>> Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
>> I'd call it a heated argument, road rage if you like. Any cyclist using
>> that route could probably relate quite well to his anger, though I think
>> Colin is probably taking it a little too heated here.
>
>
> Colin forces the second rear door shut, he uses the door as a means to
> batter the driver out of the way!
That's your interpretation. It's not obvious he is trying to do anything
apart from shut the van door. He is not looking at the van door as he
closes it, as he would be if he were using it as a weapon; his gaze is
fixed on the driver.
Daveyboy
wrote:
>Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> writes:
>
>> as to the van driver being out of order... how so, illegally parked
>> maybe, but I cant see how he was out of order
>
>"comitting a criminal act" would seem a plausible metric for "out of
>order" to me.
>
>Matthew
Like councilor Rosenteil then, he assaulted a man and apparently
caused criminal damage to the van!
Peter Hall
not a councillor or traffic warden
"Martin" <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.07...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk...
>
>
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Simon Morris wrote:
>
>> True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether it's
>> Colin Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver after 7.30am.
>> Is that clear at the roadside, or is it up to the deliveree to make sure
>> that the deliverer knows?
>
> Irrespective of CR's specific complaint, the deliverer is in a Mandatory
> Cycle Lane, which is an offence, one of the "MUST NOT" bits of the Highway
> Code.
>
> The fact there is a delivery ban after 7.30am is an additional, planning
> enforcement, matter.
>
> There are yellow lines round the corner in Downing Place, from which
> deliveries can legally (and much more considerately) be done, if the
> delivery operative can be bothered to walk 20 metres or so.
>
>
>
> Martin
Daveyboy
he still used the door to batter the man out of the way, if, and I do
mean if, as you say his eyes were fixed on the man, he knew his
relevant place in time and space, therefore it was deliberate that
councilor Rosenteil attacked the man
Daveyboy
<noone$$@llondel.org> wrote:
>In message <AHmwi.18935$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, Paul wrote:
>
>> Oh........ what about the WINGMIRROR that was FORCED into the side of the
>> van thats not on the video is this also aloud by councillors
>>
>> I hope the driver claims for damages
>>
>Catch-22, if he claims for damages he's effectively admitting he was parked
>in an illegal place and breaching planning consent and may end up being
>nicked for it. As such, he'll probably just accept any bruises and learn to
>move a bit faster next time.
so you condone the use of violence by a elected representative of the
people?
Peter Hall
Colin please keep digging........ the hole is getting deeper
"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
> In article <ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland
> Perry) wrote:
>
>> In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at
>> 07:14:08 on Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>>
>> >poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>>
>> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when
>> doing his job.
>
john.i...@gmail.com
> > >poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>
> > It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when
> > doing his job.
I agree, although it is worth considering this point in view of
increased legislation.
There comes a point where the sheer weight of legislation starts to
become overbearing. People start to develop conventions which,
although they are against the law, the majority of the population
recognise. In the UK we are normally pretty good about obeying the
laws as written. This is in contrast to many other countries where
what is the law and the way that people normally behave can be very
different. My concern is that as legislation proliferates we are
moving towards a position where many end up breaking the law because
they find regulation just impinges too much on their lives otherwise.
How many posters can really say that they haven't broken any laws
today? Not gone at 33mph in a 30 zone? Not cycled on the pavement on
the last bit up to the house?
> Precisely. The conversation before the video started consisted of
> explaining that to him and directing him to the yard which the pub has
> for deliveries. He was ignoring that advice.
Well, what I saw looked incredibly rude and obnoxious but I would be
hard pressed to call it assault. I am sure it is in _technical_ terms
(at the very least because Colin is trying to be threatening) but the
physical element is no more than you would pick up in the first couple
of minutes of a pub league footie match.
Actually, I have some sympathy with what Colin was trying to achieve
(it must be my hug-a-hoodie instinct) but the way he handled it showed
massively poor judgment and a side to his character that is most
unbecoming in a leading civic figure. And I don't think that the fact
that he was a cyclist having a go at a van driver allows him to behave
however he pleases.
John
Peter Hall
about travellers
But she resigned
This is worse to attack a member of the public swearing and physical attack
on his van in public
maybe its your time.........Colin
"steve" <.> wrote in message news:Y5ydnSBt8LqvTVzb...@bt.com...
>
> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...
>> In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
>> Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>>
>> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
>> his job.
>> --
>> Roland Perry
>
> Then its up to rosenstiel to call the police not cause road rage and take
> it into his own hands, i expect this sort of behaviour from the BNP and if
> it did happen it would make front page national press, i dont expect it
> from lib dems. in fact the lib dems have now lost my vote and i think its
> time rosenstiel went, and if he is a man he would *resign* now
>
> Steve
>
Peter Hall
just glad i got the footage
1 is a laptop and the others a desktop
do i care Martin.............. NO.... Just wanted to get the ball rolling
:)
Paul & Peter
"Martin" <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.07...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk...
>
>
> Peter, or should I say Paul,
>
> Is there some reason why you appear to be replying to your own post,
> seemingly using a different e-mail address? Header extracts:
>
>
> Message-ID: <Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net>
> From: Paul <Pa...@mail.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.98.241.214
>
> Message-ID: <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>
> From: "Peter Hall" <pe...@mail.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.98.241.214
>
>
> nslookup 81.98.241.214 gives:
> cpc2-cmbg4-0-0-cust469.cmbg.cable.ntl.com.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall wrote:
>
>> I like the video very well done
>> poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>> Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
>> Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
>>
>> bad man rosenstiel
>>
>>
>> "Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>> >I could not believe my eyes ..........
>> >
>> > So here is a video of what i saw .......
>> > after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing
>> > at
>> > the top of his voice
>> >
>> > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Martin
steve
<john.i...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187123401.0...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...