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The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 7, 2010, 8:00:16 AM8/7/10
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>
> Andrew. I just HAVE to copy this to Cam.misc. Sorry.
> Have been arguing precisely the same thing with them.
>
> Unfortunately there the town is FULL of cyclists who have organised
> themselves onto the council..
>
>
>
>> Yes, seen many a town centre die after the council introduces car
>> parking charges, removes free parking spaces, etc.
>>
>> I lived in Dunstable in the early 1980s. A wonderful small town centre.
>> It drew shoppers from all the higher class nearby towns and villages,
>> enabling it to punch well above its weight in quality of shops for the
>> size of the town, and all free parking was a big attraction over the
>> nearby, and much bigger, Luton. It had high class multiples, and also
>> many individual specialist stores.
>>
>> Then in the early 1990s (can't recall now exactly when), the council
>> decided to make money out of parking. I wrote a long letter to the
>> council explaining exactly what would happen, and the local paper
>> also summarised my letter. I gives me no satisfaction to say I was
>> 100% correct, and the town has been dead (as a shopping centre) for
>> many years now. Actually, it's interesting to consider what happened
>> to just one key retail premises in the centre...
>>
>> Waitrose -> Safeway -> Kwiksave -> empty -> Poundland.
>>
>> Kind of sums up what the local council did to the town.
>>
>> Sainsburys and Tescos moved out of the town centre to sites where
>> they had control of their own car parks. Coop closed when the free
>> car park next to it closed. All the specialist shops closed because
>> the shops for your weekly shopping had gone, so people not coming
>> in to the town centre anymore and no passing trade. It's now mostly
>> derelict retail units.
>>
>> I'm not claiming town centres could carry on just as they did 30
>> years ago in the age of the interweb, but the destruction in this
>> case was almost entirely council driven.
>>

The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 7, 2010, 8:09:53 AM8/7/10
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Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <i3j495$e3r$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,

> and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>
>> Yes, seen many a town centre die after the council introduces car
>> parking charges, removes free parking spaces, etc.
>
> [snip]

>
>> I'm not claiming town centres could carry on just as they did 30
>> years ago in the age of the interweb, but the destruction in this
>> case was almost entirely council driven.
>
> I think in some places, there are issues with shortage of parking. In
> Ely, f'rinstance, too many free parking spaces were being taken up by
> commuters from the surrounding area parking all day where shoppers might
> otherwise park.
>
> What you need is *low* parking fees. In Newmarket we always used to find
> the long-term car park absolutely full, until they introduced sensible
> limits and parking fees of 20p/hour. Suddenly, you could park there and
> go shopping.
>
> Cambridge, by contrast, they're trying to charge 20p for 10 mins in some
> places.
>

Didn't know you were in Newmarket Tim!

I totally agree, that low or zero parking fees make it the destination
of choice for us.

Long term there are streets available as well.. for free.

I never pay for parking there.

Sadly they have at least one dick brain on the council, who keeps adding
traffic lights and snarling up the traffic.

It is not possible to go into Cambridge at all without paying. Every
single possible public parking space has some kind of restriction on it.
They even patrol at 9pm and issue parking tickets.

Only the park and rides are free, BUT the bus fare in is not.

The net effect on any visitor is 'You are here on sufferance, we will
only let you into to our marvellous city at all if you pay' to which my
final response has been an overall 'well fuck YOU then' since as Andrew
pointed out in the Dunstable case, the policy eventually forces closures
of any town centre shops of interest anyway.

John Murphy

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Aug 7, 2010, 3:48:00 PM8/7/10
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On 7 Aug, 13:09, The Natural Philosopher opined <t...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> Tim Streater regretted:
> > In article <i3j495$e3...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Superb, TNT (erm, TNP)

Never mind a free slot, circling round Cambridge in search of parking
is not fun, when Light systems seemingly do not know how to say hello
to one another.

It must be awful for visitors!

Strange, when you consider we have mighty good programmers in
Cambridge! [Already with free spaces? Ed.]

Wouldn't surprise me if some visitors came in an went out, repeated,
then left.
--
Kind rgds,
John
************************************************************************************
Harbinger.

The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 7, 2010, 4:17:52 PM8/7/10
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Cambrudge has decided, rightly or wrongly, that it exists for cambridge
residents alone, and especially if they ride bicycles and have turd
shaped helmets on their heads.

It has decided that they have greater voting power and pay more taxes
than shopkeepers.

Ergo, no more shops expect those suitable for people arriving by bus. or
cycle./As little INDUSTRY as possible. No nasty pongs for refined noses
here! Just a few token hi techs on the northern fringes. Out of town
anyway. Cant have the nasty business of PROFIT inside our hallowed
public sector walls can we?

In fact the whole place is really a dormitory for public sector workers,
in either the NHS or education.

And the politics reflects that, a sor of shambling idealistic academic
sort of crap shoot, with any idea that looks superficially intelligent
thrown into the pot with no concern as to whether it is in a holistic
sense 'good for the town'. Or even will actually work in a real life
situation.. I.e. Lib Dem to the core.

Linda Fox

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Aug 7, 2010, 5:54:58 PM8/7/10
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Name us a town *of equivalent or greater size/population* where this is
not the case.

Linda ff

Message has been deleted

The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 7, 2010, 6:13:53 PM8/7/10
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Aberdeen?
Bath?
Ipswich?

Just some that I know of.
I am sure there are many others.


Linda Fox

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Aug 7, 2010, 6:23:49 PM8/7/10
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On 07/08/2010 23:11, Brian Morrison wrote:

> On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 22:54:58 +0100
> Linda Fox<lind...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> Name us a town *of equivalent or greater size/population* where this is
>> not the case.
>
> Lots of places are fairly similar in this respect, but they don't quite
> reach the extremes that Cambridge manages.
>
So that's a "no I can't" Then, is it?

Linda ff

Tim Ward

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Aug 7, 2010, 6:29:30 PM8/7/10
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"Brian Morrison" <b...@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20100807231...@peterson.fenrir.org.uk...

> On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 22:54:58 +0100
> Linda Fox <lind...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> Name us a town *of equivalent or greater size/population* where this is
>> not the case.
>
> Lots of places are fairly similar in this respect, but they don't quite
> reach the extremes that Cambridge manages.

I once tried to visit Canterbury, as I was passing. Being a stranger and not
knowing my way around I was prepared to pay to park (in Cambridge, by
contrast, being a local, I knew where to park free in the city centre).
However having followed the signs round the town centre a couple of times
and found no indication that it was possible to park anywhere at all at any
price (IIRC, it was decades ago now, I found one small car park which was
full) I drove out again and continued my journey. I've still never been to
Canterbury.

Possibly they came to the conclusion that they had too many tourists
cluttering the place up already and didn't need another one.

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor


The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 7, 2010, 6:31:43 PM8/7/10
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Not in the English language, no.


> Linda ff

The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 7, 2010, 6:33:02 PM8/7/10
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Tim Ward wrote:
> "Brian Morrison" <b...@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:20100807231...@peterson.fenrir.org.uk...
>> On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 22:54:58 +0100
>> Linda Fox <lind...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Name us a town *of equivalent or greater size/population* where this is
>>> not the case.
>> Lots of places are fairly similar in this respect, but they don't quite
>> reach the extremes that Cambridge manages.
>
> I once tried to visit Canterbury, as I was passing. Being a stranger and not
> knowing my way around I was prepared to pay to park (in Cambridge, by
> contrast, being a local, I knew where to park free in the city centre).
> However having followed the signs round the town centre a couple of times
> and found no indication that it was possible to park anywhere at all at any
> price (IIRC, it was decades ago now, I found one small car park which was
> full) I drove out again and continued my journey. I've still never been to
> Canterbury.
>
> Possibly they came to the conclusion that they had too many tourists
> cluttering the place up already and didn't need another one.
>
More or less my experience of Oxford.

Oddly, I HAVE parked in Canterbury. Long time ago though.

Linda Fox

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Aug 7, 2010, 7:22:37 PM8/7/10
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On 07/08/2010 23:29, Tim Ward wrote:
> "Brian Morrison"<b...@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:20100807231...@peterson.fenrir.org.uk...
>> On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 22:54:58 +0100
>> Linda Fox<lind...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Name us a town *of equivalent or greater size/population* where this is
>>> not the case.
>>
>> Lots of places are fairly similar in this respect, but they don't quite
>> reach the extremes that Cambridge manages.
>
> I once tried to visit Canterbury, as I was passing. Being a stranger and not
> knowing my way around I was prepared to pay to park (in Cambridge, by
> contrast, being a local, I knew where to park free in the city centre).
> However having followed the signs round the town centre a couple of times
> and found no indication that it was possible to park anywhere at all at any
> price (IIRC, it was decades ago now, I found one small car park which was
> full) I drove out again and continued my journey. I've still never been to
> Canterbury.
>
> Possibly they came to the conclusion that they had too many tourists
> cluttering the place up already and didn't need another one.
>
Exactly the same with Chester

Linda ff

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

John Murphy

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Aug 7, 2010, 7:48:35 PM8/7/10
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Thanks,Tim, if I may: the notion of a negative scale of visitable
places has me ROTHFLMAO! BTA, please note, BTA. First time, we almost
sailed right through Canterbury.
--
Kind rgds,
John
******************************************************************************************
Harbinger.


Linda Fox

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Aug 7, 2010, 7:58:03 PM8/7/10
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On 08/08/2010 00:47, Brian Morrison wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 00:22:37 +0100
> Linda Fox<lind...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>> Possibly they came to the conclusion that they had too many tourists
>>> cluttering the place up already and didn't need another one.
>>>
>> Exactly the same with Chester
>
> Oddly enough Chester is one place where I didn't think the parking
> charges were excessive, and it was a reasonably pleasant place to go.
> That would be about 7 or 8 years ago I think, it may be worse now.
>
No, it was earlier that I knew it. Went for an interview there once and
drove right round the town twice trying to find a park. It was OK to
park in Hoole, the suburb where my friend was living, or in Handbridge
or Blacon, just not in the town.

I worked there Friday and Saturday mornings and used to go by train and
then walk in.

Linda ff

John Murphy

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Aug 7, 2010, 9:00:01 PM8/7/10
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On 8 Aug, 00:58, Linda Fox opined <linda...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On 08/08/2010 00:47, Brian Morrison had written:> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 00:22:37 +0100
> > Linda Fox<linda...@ntlworld.com>  wrote, informatively:

>
> >>> Possibly they came to the conclusion that they had too many tourists
> >>> cluttering the place up already and didn't need another one.
>
> >> Exactly the same with Chester
>
> > Oddly enough Chester is one place where I didn't think the parking
> > charges were excessive, and it was a reasonably pleasant place to go.
> > That would be about 7 or 8 years ago I think, it may be worse now.
>
> No, it was earlier that I knew it. Went for an interview there once and
> drove right round the town twice trying to find a park. It was OK to
> park in Hoole, the suburb where my friend was living, or in Handbridge
> or Blacon, just not in the town.
>
> I worked there Friday and Saturday mornings and used to go by train and
> then walk in.
>
> Linda ff

Friends from Poland, however, took them three times to get into
Nottinhgam, there being 3 sliproads and a spaghetti junction. Best
would have been: 'Nottingham: Centre'. Maybe it has changed: I
don'tknow!
**********************************************************************************************
Harbinger,

Roland Perry

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Aug 8, 2010, 3:07:03 AM8/8/10
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In message <20100808004...@peterson.fenrir.org.uk>, at 00:47:01
on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, Brian Morrison <b...@fenrir.org.uk> remarked:

>> > Possibly they came to the conclusion that they had too many tourists
>> > cluttering the place up already and didn't need another one.
>> >
>> Exactly the same with Chester
>
>Oddly enough Chester is one place where I didn't think the parking
>charges were excessive, and it was a reasonably pleasant place to go.
>That would be about 7 or 8 years ago I think, it may be worse now.

I went to Chester for a weekend break about ten years ago. The very
central hotel had no parking facilities, and there were none close by
either. I eventually found a pay-and-display about ten minutes walk away
on the edge of town, but it suffered from not being able to buy a ticket
that spanned more than one day. So I had to get back to the car at 8am
(iirc) to buy a new ticket for the second day, because that was the hour
they started charging. The previous day's ticket having expired its
usefulness at 8pm or whatever the evening before.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry

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Aug 8, 2010, 3:26:49 AM8/8/10
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In message
<7f9815cf-e42a-488d...@x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, at
18:00:01 on Sat, 7 Aug 2010, John Murphy
<london.accommod...@googlemail.com> remarked:

>Friends from Poland, however, took them three times to get into
>Nottinhgam, there being 3 sliproads and a spaghetti junction. Best
>would have been: 'Nottingham: Centre'. Maybe it has changed: I
>don'tknow!

I know the junction you mean! The signs are a bit confusing, not helped
because there's a merging-together of lanes just before they split
again.

However the lane for the City Centre (which goes over the flyover) does
have "City Centre" painted on it: http://goo.gl/maps/6BBO - although for
the adjacent P&R you need the lane marked "Ind Est", and the P&R isn't
even mentioned on the gantry sign: http://goo.gl/maps/d0T4

The sliproad for the P&R dives off from the ground-level road system
just *before* the flyover from the south merges http://goo.gl/maps/mFiq

Meanwhile, for the easiest way to the best central parking, I would go
one junction further north and follow signs for the City Centre from
there http://goo.gl/maps/1m3f

In a move that the good burghers of Cambridge might care to emulate,
there's a *free* bus every 10 minutes from that (free) P&R to the nearby
Queens University Hospital. That bus also circles the entire campus,
compared to the regular stage buses which either drop you at the front
door (or the back door for a small number of routes) and therefore
reduces walking distances and/or getting lost in the maze of buildings.
--
Roland Perry

John Murphy

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Aug 8, 2010, 6:56:55 AM8/8/10
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On 8 Aug, 08:26, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <7f9815cf-e42a-488d-8a90-910bf3503...@x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, at

> 18:00:01 on Sat, 7 Aug 2010, John Murphy
> <london.accommodation.homest...@googlemail.com> remarked:

>
> >Friends from Poland, however, took them three times to get into
> >Nottinhgam, there being 3 sliproads and a spaghetti junction. Best
> >would have been: 'Nottingham: Centre'. Maybe it has changed: I
> >don'tknow!
>
> I know the junction you mean! The signs are a bit confusing, not helped
> because there's a merging-together of lanes just before they split
> again.
>
> However the lane for the City Centre (which goes over the flyover) does
> have "City Centre" painted on it:http://goo.gl/maps/6BBO- although for

> the adjacent P&R you need the lane marked "Ind Est", and the P&R isn't
> even mentioned on the gantry sign:http://goo.gl/maps/d0T4
>
> The sliproad for the P&R dives off from the ground-level road system
> just *before* the flyover from the south mergeshttp://goo.gl/maps/mFiq

>
> Meanwhile, for the easiest way to the best central parking, I would go
> one junction further north and follow signs for the City Centre from
> therehttp://goo.gl/maps/1m3f

>
> In a move that the good burghers of Cambridge might care to emulate,
> there's a *free* bus every 10 minutes from that (free) P&R to the nearby
> Queens University Hospital. That bus also circles the entire campus,
> compared to the regular stage buses which either drop you at the front
> door (or the back door for a small number of routes) and therefore
> reduces walking distances and/or getting lost in the maze of buildings.
> --
> Roland Perry

Roland, if I may, the free buses are wonderful, and the nearest I can
find is the trolley song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odXnKhKBx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg-2ncgmHZg&feature=related

Most certainly related.
--
Kind rgds,
John.

tony sayer

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Aug 8, 2010, 6:58:12 AM8/8/10
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>Doesn't mean that there are none. My own local town is not quite as
>extreme as Cambridge in this regard, but it's certainly not as
>prestigious either. It has a high proportion of charity and pound shops
>though, it didn't 20 odd years ago but the council has taken the
>opportunity to raise parking charges quite a bit in that period and
>talking to many of the retailers tells me that they see fewer
>customers and pay higher rents. Just recently one shut down after 76
>years for exactly this reason. Others have gone under or fled their
>premises without negotiating an end to their leases. There are not many
>expanding.
>

"What do we want";!?..

.......... "Votes for retailers"!!!! .......

"And when do we want it";?

.... "NOW!".......


>I imagine that somewhere you can find places that are better, but they
>may not have the constraints Cambridge has due to its mediaeval centre.
>That probably makes some difference to central parking, we only have
>one park and ride here, Cambridge has what, four? I know what it's like
>trying to carry heavy stuff on a P&R bus.
>

I have never been able to see the logic in building places like the
Grandiose Arcade in the town centre. Some shops for people like students
and a small number who live right in the middle of town, but just how
many as a percentage of their "footfall" go there from their homes on
foot?..

I suspect sod all. Most all via car, or park and ride bus.

Cambridge should have had a proper ring road system where you put the
shopping centres like the places on Newmarket road which are in the
wrong place, on proper out of the town centre industrial/commercial
parks.

All the rural out of town its easier for, the sub urban around cam like
the estates in the East North and South easier access, and those in the
centre a few shops for them and not that much traffic coming out from
there to the out of town places.

The centre for students and Uni staffs and tourists, and punt pole
pushers;)..
--
Tony Sayer


tony sayer

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Aug 8, 2010, 6:59:33 AM8/8/10
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In article <i3kmuu$vq1$2...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> scribeth thus

Bin there, read the signs, parked the car, and bought the tea shirt! ...

Next?..
--
Tony Sayer


Linda Fox

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Aug 8, 2010, 7:48:03 AM8/8/10
to
On 08/08/2010 11:58, tony sayer wrote:
>
> I have never been able to see the logic in building places like the
> Grandiose Arcade in the town centre. Some shops for people like students
> and a small number who live right in the middle of town, but just how
> many as a percentage of their "footfall" go there from their homes on
> foot?..
>
> I suspect sod all. Most all via car, or park and ride bus.

Bike. Local bus.


>
> Cambridge should have had a proper ring road system where you put the
> shopping centres like the places on Newmarket road which are in the
> wrong place, on proper out of the town centre industrial/commercial
> parks.

What would you have in the town centre instead? Or would you prefer to
let it die?


>
> All the rural out of town its easier for, the sub urban around cam like
> the estates in the East North and South easier access, and those in the
> centre a few shops for them and not that much traffic coming out from
> there to the out of town places.
>
> The centre for students and Uni staffs and tourists, and punt pole
> pushers;)..

Not so, not so at all. There are many folk living in places like Cherry
Hinton who would find it rather easier to get into town and do what they
want to there. They'll go in for the market, the cinema/theatre, the
library, and - yes - for some of the shops. I have to go into town if I
want to look at musical instruments or sheet music and I'll use the
market and several of the other shops while I'm there. I would reckon a
fair proportion of those who are in the centre at any one time are
residents who have had to come in for one thing and are making full use
of whatever else is there, including the shops, while they happen to be
there.

I suppose it depends what else you want to do. It makes sense to put the
places that need transport - garden centres, furniture outlets, large
supermarkets - on a peripheral belt (though it severely disenfranchises
those who can't or won't or don't drive) - but if you want a pair of
shoes, would you go into town or out of town? Depends what else you may
need to do, surely?

Linda ff

Roland Perry

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Aug 8, 2010, 12:21:23 PM8/8/10
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In message
<d4781b9c-ef3e-4c83...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>, at
03:56:55 on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, John Murphy
<london.accommod...@googlemail.com> remarked:

>Roland, if I may, the free buses are wonderful, and the nearest I can
>find is the trolley song:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odXnKhKBx

malformed url, it says.
--
Roland Perry

John Murphy

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Aug 8, 2010, 7:32:18 PM8/8/10
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On 8 Aug, 17:21, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <d4781b9c-ef3e-4c83-bf2b-5304db094...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>, at

> 03:56:55 on Sun, 8 Aug 2010, John Murphy
> <london.accommodation.homest...@googlemail.com> remarked:

>
> >Roland, if I may, the free buses are wonderful, and the nearest I can
> >find is the trolley song:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odXnKhKBx
>
> malformed url, it says.
> --
> Roland Perry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odXnKhKBxQ

This might work better. Utube has a new idea: dump you in the middle
of irrelevant ads! Would they were irreverant! Otherwise, just enter
'trolley song' in U-tube search field.

Wonderful discussion!

--
Yrs,
John.

Plum

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Aug 9, 2010, 2:51:37 AM8/9/10
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"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YS4VKBRE...@bancom.co.uk...

I always recommend Ely, particularly on Farmers' Market weekends. Free
parking if you get there before nine, otherwise none at all.
>

Brian Watson

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Aug 9, 2010, 6:12:27 AM8/9/10
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"Plum" <chey...@waitrose.com> wrote in message
news:OfWdnQEsWbDnOMLR...@brightview.com...

> I always recommend Ely, particularly on Farmers' Market weekends.

Ah, so that's YOU doing it, is it?

:-)

--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."
www.imagebus.co.uk/shop


Cris Galletly

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Aug 9, 2010, 6:17:37 AM8/9/10
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In article <i3kmuu$vq1$2...@news.albasani.net>,

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>More or less my experience of Oxford.

Plenty of places to park in Oxford.
--
+ Cris Galletly <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> +

The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 9, 2010, 8:44:59 AM8/9/10
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Cris Galletly wrote:
> In article <i3kmuu$vq1$2...@news.albasani.net>,
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> More or less my experience of Oxford.
>
> Plenty of places to park in Oxford.

Just none that are near the town centre, and free.

Roland Perry

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Aug 9, 2010, 8:57:10 AM8/9/10
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In message <i3ot8b$379$1...@news.albasani.net>, at 13:44:59 on Mon, 9 Aug
2010, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>> Plenty of places to park in Oxford.
>
>Just none that are near the town centre, and free.

Several of those, but not necessarily available to the public.
--
Roland Perry

tony sayer

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Aug 9, 2010, 4:24:23 PM8/9/10
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In article <TPw7o.17125$k31.2289@hurricane>, Linda Fox
<lind...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus

>On 08/08/2010 11:58, tony sayer wrote:
>>
>> I have never been able to see the logic in building places like the
>> Grandiose Arcade in the town centre. Some shops for people like students
>> and a small number who live right in the middle of town, but just how
>> many as a percentage of their "footfall" go there from their homes on
>> foot?..
>>
>> I suspect sod all. Most all via car, or park and ride bus.
>
>Bike. Local bus.

So most come by bike or bus .. really?..

>>
>> Cambridge should have had a proper ring road system where you put the
>> shopping centres like the places on Newmarket road which are in the
>> wrong place, on proper out of the town centre industrial/commercial
>> parks.
>
>What would you have in the town centre instead? Or would you prefer to
>let it die?

Its being choked to death as it is, theres too much there of the wrong
sort. You don't need large shopping centres in a medieval historic place
like Cambridge!..

>>
>> All the rural out of town its easier for, the sub urban around cam like
>> the estates in the East North and South easier access, and those in the
>> centre a few shops for them and not that much traffic coming out from
>> there to the out of town places.
>>
>> The centre for students and Uni staffs and tourists, and punt pole
>> pushers;)..
>
>Not so, not so at all. There are many folk living in places like Cherry
>Hinton who would find it rather easier to get into town and do what they
>want to there.

Why?..

>They'll go in for the market, the cinema/theatre,

OK the cinemas with the exception f the Arts are in the Grafton and at
the old cattle market.. Do you have to go to the flicks right in the
middle of the town?..

OK the arts theatre is there..

> the
>library, and - yes - for some of the shops. I have to go into town if I
>want to look at musical instruments or sheet music and I'll use the
>market and several of the other shops while I'm there. I would reckon a
>fair proportion of those who are in the centre at any one time are
>residents who have had to come in for one thing and are making full use
>of whatever else is there, including the shops, while they happen to be
>there.

So you think all the shops in say the Grafton the Grande arcade -need-
to be where they are?..


>
>I suppose it depends what else you want to do. It makes sense to put the
>places that need transport - garden centres, furniture outlets, large
>supermarkets - on a peripheral belt (though it severely disenfranchises
>those who can't or won't or don't drive)


> - but if you want a pair of
>shoes, would you go into town or out of town? Depends what else you may
>need to do, surely?

Yes a lot of this could be done outside the Cambridge town centre.

Those who haven't got a car can get a taxi or bus ..
>
>Linda ff
>

--
Tony Sayer


Duncan Wood

unread,
Aug 9, 2010, 4:49:20 PM8/9/10
to
On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 21:24:23 +0100, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <TPw7o.17125$k31.2289@hurricane>, Linda Fox
> <lind...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>> On 08/08/2010 11:58, tony sayer wrote:
>>>
>>> I have never been able to see the logic in building places like the
>>> Grandiose Arcade in the town centre. Some shops for people like
>>> students
>>> and a small number who live right in the middle of town, but just how
>>> many as a percentage of their "footfall" go there from their homes on
>>> foot?..
>>>
>>> I suspect sod all. Most all via car, or park and ride bus.
>>
>> Bike. Local bus.
>
> So most come by bike or bus .. really?..
>
>>>
>>> Cambridge should have had a proper ring road system where you put the
>>> shopping centres like the places on Newmarket road which are in the
>>> wrong place, on proper out of the town centre industrial/commercial
>>> parks.
>>
>> What would you have in the town centre instead? Or would you prefer to
>> let it die?
>
> Its being choked to death as it is, theres too much there of the wrong
> sort.

What's the right sort?

Only if you build an alternative densely populated (with shops) centre.

> Those who haven't got a car can get a taxi or bus ..

Those who have can do that or use the car at the moment.


>>
>> Linda ff
>>

tony sayer

unread,
Aug 9, 2010, 5:00:16 PM8/9/10
to
In article <op.vg6us...@lucy.cable.virginmedia.net>, Duncan Wood
<nntp...@dmx512.co.uk> scribeth thus

>On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 21:24:23 +0100, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <TPw7o.17125$k31.2289@hurricane>, Linda Fox
>> <lind...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>>> On 08/08/2010 11:58, tony sayer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have never been able to see the logic in building places like the
>>>> Grandiose Arcade in the town centre. Some shops for people like
>>>> students
>>>> and a small number who live right in the middle of town, but just how
>>>> many as a percentage of their "footfall" go there from their homes on
>>>> foot?..
>>>>
>>>> I suspect sod all. Most all via car, or park and ride bus.
>>>
>>> Bike. Local bus.
>>
>> So most come by bike or bus .. really?..
>>
>>>>
>>>> Cambridge should have had a proper ring road system where you put the
>>>> shopping centres like the places on Newmarket road which are in the
>>>> wrong place, on proper out of the town centre industrial/commercial
>>>> parks.
>>>
>>> What would you have in the town centre instead? Or would you prefer to
>>> let it die?
>>
>> Its being choked to death as it is, theres too much there of the wrong
>> sort.
>
>What's the right sort?

Large shopping centres..

>
>> You don't need large shopping centres in a medieval historic place
>> like Cambridge!..
>>
>

>Only if you build an alternative densely populated (with shops) centre.

You do what other places have done put them on commercial industrial
sites out of the historic town centres. Still its useless arguing their
built there now with all the problems that go with them...

>
>> Those who haven't got a car can get a taxi or bus ..
>
>Those who have can do that or use the car at the moment.
>
>
>>>
>>> Linda ff
>>>

--
Tony Sayer



Jonathan Anderson

unread,
Aug 9, 2010, 5:31:58 PM8/9/10
to
On 09/08/2010 22:00, tony sayer wrote:
>>>>> I have never been able to see the logic in building places like the
>>>>> Grandiose Arcade in the town centre. Some shops for people like
>>>>> students
>>>>> and a small number who live right in the middle of town, but just how
>>>>> many as a percentage of their "footfall" go there from their homes on
>>>>> foot?..
>>>>> Cambridge should have had a proper ring road system where you put the
>>>>> shopping centres like the places on Newmarket road which are in the
>>>>> wrong place, on proper out of the town centre industrial/commercial
>>>>> parks.
>>>> What would you have in the town centre instead? Or would you prefer to
>>>> let it die?
>>> Its being choked to death as it is, theres too much there of the wrong
>>> sort.
>> What's the right sort?
> Large shopping centres..

Excuse my lack of attribution but the comment about Grand Arcade (a
large shopping centre) being "not right" for the town centre and the
comment about large shopping centres being the "right sort" of thing for
the town centre are both yours.

Just curious - you maybe got confused as to what was asked, so what *is*
the right thing for the centre of town in your opinion?

I'm interested as I shop in the centre quite happily although rarely use
shops in the Grafton or Grand Arcade. Not because they don't stock stuff
but because as a shopping "ambience" goes they're ineffably shite.
Strange as it sounds, I prefer the aesthetics of wandering about the
town centre shops.

When I lived out of town I preferred going to the shopping centres
because traipsing around the centre was a bind, having spent all that
time getting in.

Jon

Tim Ward

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Aug 9, 2010, 5:37:07 PM8/9/10
to
"Jonathan Anderson" <j...@durge.org> wrote in message
news:4c6073cf$0$27997$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...

>
> Excuse my lack of attribution but the comment about Grand Arcade (a large
> shopping centre) being "not right" for the town centre and the comment
> about large shopping centres being the "right sort" of thing for the town
> centre are both yours.

Maybe he thinks a "useful shopping centre for city residents" and a "premier
regional fashion venue" (think that's what it called itself in the paper the
other day) aren't quite the same thing?

Cris Galletly

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 4:27:39 AM8/10/10
to
In article <i3ot8b$379$1...@news.albasani.net>,

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Cris Galletly wrote:
>> Plenty of places to park in Oxford.
>
>Just none that are near the town centre, and free.

Depends what you mean by near the town centre. Last time I was there I
managed to hobble back to the car on a sprained ankle from the town centre
(would have preferred to catch a bus but just missed it!) so it can't be
as bad as you describe.

You do have to know where to look, mind.

Chris Shore

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 4:28:44 AM8/10/10
to

"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:PILw89D3...@bancom.co.uk...

> So you think all the shops in say the Grafton the Grande arcade -need-
> to be where they are?..

Yes. If they weren't, the city centre would be even more of a dustbowl than
it might otherwise be.

Also, they are primarily (with some exceptions which some pedant will be
along shortly to enumerate...) "browsing" shops as far as I can see. They
are
not shops to which you go for necessary regular bulk-type purchases. Most
do not sell large items which need transport to get them home. Most are
aimed at "pleasure" shopping. If they were not in the city centre, nobody
would
go to them.

Equally, having (more than a small number of) large supermarkets in the
centre
of town is just not sensible. They need to be somewhere where there is easy
car access and a large, free car park.

Chris


Cris Galletly

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Aug 10, 2010, 5:03:59 AM8/10/10
to
In article <i3r2js$c94$1...@cam-news1.cambridge.arm.com>,

Chris Shore <chris...@arm.nospam.com> wrote:
>If they were not in the city centre, nobody would go to them.

Unfortunately I seem to be having to spend more time in the Vodafone shop
than I would like, and I would be having to do that wherever the wretched
place was located. I think I must be cursed wrt Nokia N900s. First one
killed three chargers before finally ceasing to charge at all, this one
finds it can't recognise its SIM card for hours at a time.

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 5:22:26 AM8/10/10
to
In message <Nee*-ve...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 10:03:59 on Tue,
10 Aug 2010, Cris Galletly <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:

One of the few reasons I visit Nottingham centre is because I want to
buy a Vodafone top-up. Yes, I could buy it online perhaps, but the nice
thing about a paper voucher is you can activate it any time/place you
like, without discovering at the last minute that the website wants you
to register your credit card and wait a week before being able to use it
(which was the scheme I tripped over with "3").
--
Roland Perry

rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

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Aug 10, 2010, 9:24:09 AM8/10/10
to
In article <AIQ39AFS...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland
Perry) wrote:

> One of the few reasons I visit Nottingham centre is because I want
> to buy a Vodafone top-up. Yes, I could buy it online perhaps, but
> the nice thing about a paper voucher is you can activate it any
> time/place you like, without discovering at the last minute that
> the website wants you to register your credit card and wait a week
> before being able to use it (which was the scheme I tripped over
> with "3").

Good grief! It's just point and click on the O2 web site, or at a cash
machine for that matter.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Message has been deleted

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 9:55:37 AM8/10/10
to
In message <7p6dnb04K9Nkz_zR...@giganews.com>, at 08:24:09
on Tue, 10 Aug 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:

>> One of the few reasons I visit Nottingham centre is because I want
>> to buy a Vodafone top-up. Yes, I could buy it online perhaps, but
>> the nice thing about a paper voucher is you can activate it any
>> time/place you like, without discovering at the last minute that
>> the website wants you to register your credit card and wait a week
>> before being able to use it (which was the scheme I tripped over
>> with "3").
>
>Good grief! It's just point and click on the O2 web site, or at a cash
>machine for that matter.

I'm topping up a 3G dongle, which seems to be more complicated for some
reason.
--
Roland Perry

Jon Green

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Aug 10, 2010, 10:41:01 AM8/10/10
to
On 10/08/2010 14:55, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <7p6dnb04K9Nkz_zR...@giganews.com>, at 08:24:09
> on Tue, 10 Aug 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:
>> Good grief! It's just point and click on the O2 web site, or at a cash
>> machine for that matter.
>
> I'm topping up a 3G dongle, which seems to be more complicated for some
> reason.

Well, on 3 you can use the dongle to get into their own website even if
you've no credit left, and type in a voucher code you bought from your
friendly local corner store. It's worked for me anyway -- except for
the one occasion when they accidentally blocked their own "Top Up From
Voucher" page. Molto apologies received for that! Normally, though, I
top up from a pre-registered card the same way.

Jon
--
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
with 'green-lines'.
Blog: http://bit.ly/45cLHw Pix: http://bit.ly/d8V2NJ
Website: http://www.green-lines.com/

Cris Galletly

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Aug 10, 2010, 10:48:31 AM8/10/10
to
In article <7p6dnb04K9Nkz_zR...@giganews.com>,

<rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>Good grief! It's just point and click on the O2 web site, or at a cash
>machine for that matter.

Not to fix a broken physical device, I shouldn't imagine!

Espen H. Koht

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 11:10:27 AM8/10/10
to

Or tills in almost any grocery chain, including spars and coops, if I
have interpreted the little green logo correctly.

rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

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Aug 10, 2010, 11:25:39 AM8/10/10
to
In article <87pqxq8...@news2.kororaa.com>, aug...@kororaa.com (August
West) wrote:

> The entity calling itself rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> >
> > In article <AIQ39AFS...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk
> > (Roland Perry) wrote:
> >
> >> One of the few reasons I visit Nottingham centre is because I want
> >> to buy a Vodafone top-up. Yes, I could buy it online perhaps, but
> >> the nice thing about a paper voucher is you can activate it any
> >> time/place you like, without discovering at the last minute that
> >> the website wants you to register your credit card and wait a week
> >> before being able to use it (which was the scheme I tripped over
> >> with "3").
> >
> > Good grief! It's just point and click on the O2 web site, or at a
> > cash machine for that matter.
>

> Or you can buy your top up with your groceries. at any supermarket.

I prefer cash machines or online (for the kids when they didn't top their
own phones up) because it is instant and there are handy cash machines
near us.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 11:44:42 AM8/10/10
to
In message <2pudncNE6oTS-PzR...@brightview.co.uk>, at
15:41:01 on Tue, 10 Aug 2010, Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> remarked:

>On 10/08/2010 14:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <7p6dnb04K9Nkz_zR...@giganews.com>, at 08:24:09
>> on Tue, 10 Aug 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:
>>> Good grief! It's just point and click on the O2 web site, or at a cash
>>> machine for that matter.
>>
>> I'm topping up a 3G dongle, which seems to be more complicated for some
>> reason.
>
>Well, on 3 you can use the dongle to get into their own website even if
>you've no credit left, and type in a voucher code you bought from your
>friendly local corner store.

Which is exactly what I used to do! And guess what - the nearest store I
knew about is in central Nottingham...

>It's worked for me anyway -- except for the one occasion when they
>accidentally blocked their own "Top Up From Voucher" page. Molto
>apologies received for that! Normally, though, I top up from a
>pre-registered card the same way.

When I tried to top-up online '3' said in effect "we can't and won't
believe your credit card for this trivial purchase, that we can void as
soon as the charge bounces, so goodbye".
--
Roland Perry

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 2:46:00 PM8/10/10
to
Chris Shore wrote:
> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:PILw89D3...@bancom.co.uk...
>
>> So you think all the shops in say the Grafton the Grande arcade -need-
>> to be where they are?..
>
> Yes. If they weren't, the city centre would be even more of a dustbowl than
> it might otherwise be.
>
> Also, they are primarily (with some exceptions which some pedant will be
> along shortly to enumerate...) "browsing" shops as far as I can see. They
> are
> not shops to which you go for necessary regular bulk-type purchases. Most
> do not sell large items which need transport to get them home. Most are
> aimed at "pleasure" shopping. If they were not in the city centre, nobody
> would
> go to them.
>

says a lot for the quality of te shop.

so let me get this right.

People come into the town center not to actually shop, but to swan
around being bored, and therefore the correct type of shop is one where
they just browse around, but don't actually take anything away, because
there is nowhere near to park or catch a bus.


> Equally, having (more than a small number of) large supermarkets in the
> centre
> of town is just not sensible. They need to be somewhere where there is easy
> car access and a large, free car park.
>

So instead of just visiting one place to shop, by say bus, you now DRIVE
to three?

Its pure genius.

You MUST be a liberal.


> Chris
>
>

Linda Fox

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 5:02:38 PM8/10/10
to
On 09/08/2010 21:24, tony sayer wrote:
> In article<TPw7o.17125$k31.2289@hurricane>, Linda Fox
> <lind...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>> On 08/08/2010 11:58, tony sayer wrote:
>>>
>>> I have never been able to see the logic in building places like the
>>> Grandiose Arcade in the town centre. Some shops for people like students
>>> and a small number who live right in the middle of town, but just how
>>> many as a percentage of their "footfall" go there from their homes on
>>> foot?..
>>>
>>> I suspect sod all. Most all via car, or park and ride bus.
>>
>> Bike. Local bus.
>
> So most come by bike or bus .. really?..

No, I was adding them to the list.

Linda ff

Jon Green

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 5:25:44 PM8/10/10
to
On 10/08/2010 16:44, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <2pudncNE6oTS-PzR...@brightview.co.uk>, at
> 15:41:01 on Tue, 10 Aug 2010, Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> remarked:
>> Well, on 3 you can use the dongle to get into their own website even
>> if you've no credit left, and type in a voucher code you bought from
>> your friendly local corner store.
>
> Which is exactly what I used to do! And guess what - the nearest store I
> knew about is in central Nottingham...

Roland, you don't need to do it at a 3 Store -- just about every corner
newsagent can sell you a voucher code. Just look for this sign outside
the shop: http://bit.ly/cswqKy And any supermarket can do the same.
And most petrol stations. You can even top-up your mobile account from
many cash machines; just make sure you've a record of your dongle's
phone number, as you'll need to type it in.

Are you really trying to tell us that the nearest supermarket, petrol
station, corner shop or ATM is in central Nottingham? *boggle*

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 6:03:19 PM8/10/10
to
In message <sNKdnVPmcaNHXvzR...@brightview.co.uk>, at
22:25:44 on Tue, 10 Aug 2010, Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> remarked:

>>> Well, on 3 you can use the dongle to get into their own website even
>>> if you've no credit left, and type in a voucher code you bought from
>>> your friendly local corner store.
>>
>> Which is exactly what I used to do! And guess what - the nearest store I
>> knew about is in central Nottingham...
>
>Roland, you don't need to do it at a 3 Store -- just about every corner
>newsagent can sell you a voucher code. Just look for this sign outside
>the shop: http://bit.ly/cswqKy And any supermarket can do the same.
>And most petrol stations.

They all give you a voucher with the code on?

>You can even top-up your mobile account from many cash machines; just
>make sure you've a record of your dongle's phone number, as you'll need
>to type it in.

And it doesn't matter that the dongle isn't powered up until some time
later?

>Are you really trying to tell us that the nearest supermarket, petrol
>station, corner shop or ATM is in central Nottingham? *boggle*

No, there are lots a few hundred yards away; but it wasn't clear to me
that they could top-up a dongle as well as a phone (on account of the
online process of typing in a voucher code asking you other questions
about whether you want voice or data services topping up with this
particular £10 worth). And yes, I know that voice on a dongle doesn't
make much sense, but I presume you could take the SIM out and stick it
in a phone to use (if there was any "voice" credit loaded onto it).
--
Roland Perry

Jon Green

unread,
Aug 10, 2010, 7:33:33 PM8/10/10
to
On 10/08/2010 23:03, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sNKdnVPmcaNHXvzR...@brightview.co.uk>, at
> 22:25:44 on Tue, 10 Aug 2010, Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> remarked:
>> Roland, you don't need to do it at a 3 Store -- just about every
>> corner newsagent can sell you a voucher code. Just look for this sign
>> outside the shop: http://bit.ly/cswqKy And any supermarket can do the
>> same. And most petrol stations.
>
> They all give you a voucher with the code on?

That's right. Looks kinda like a till receipt, with a great long number
in the middle. Go online to your provider's web pages, and use the
voucher code to apply credit.

>> You can even top-up your mobile account from many cash machines; just
>> make sure you've a record of your dongle's phone number, as you'll
>> need to type it in.
>
> And it doesn't matter that the dongle isn't powered up until some time
> later?

No, it credits the account directly. No need for a voucher. Of course,
you can also credit someone else's phone if you know their number, so
it's quite a handy way for parents to add emergency credits to their
kids' phones!

>> Are you really trying to tell us that the nearest supermarket, petrol
>> station, corner shop or ATM is in central Nottingham? *boggle*
>
> No, there are lots a few hundred yards away; but it wasn't clear to me
> that they could top-up a dongle as well as a phone (on account of the
> online process of typing in a voucher code asking you other questions
> about whether you want voice or data services topping up with this
> particular £10 worth). And yes, I know that voice on a dongle doesn't
> make much sense, but I presume you could take the SIM out and stick it
> in a phone to use (if there was any "voice" credit loaded onto it).

The process I'm used to is to add the credit to the data SIM's account,
then go online through the mobile data connection to apply that credit
as a data top-up. It's probably worth checking your own network
provider's web pages to understand the procedure before you do it,
though, just in case it's different.

IMHO, 3 is the best mobile data network. Coverage is pretty good
everywhere I've used it (except on the tunnel-ridden approach to King's
X, but all networks have that problem), and prices are OK, at £10/1GB/month.

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 11, 2010, 4:12:21 AM8/11/10
to
In message <YvSdnegCYN1IfPzR...@brightview.co.uk>, at
00:33:33 on Wed, 11 Aug 2010, Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> remarked:

>IMHO, 3 is the best mobile data network. Coverage is pretty good
>everywhere I've used it (except on the tunnel-ridden approach to King's
>X, but all networks have that problem),

Yes, the coverage is good or non-existant[1], but the reason I gave up
on them was experiencing (about two years ago) throughputs in central
London in the few 10's of Kilobits per second in the evening. It was
also frustrating that the credit expired every month, even if I'd not
had to use it very much.

> and prices are OK, at £10/1GB/month.

So I moved to Vodafone and have a package (sadly no longer available for
new users) of £15/GB, but it doesn't expire at the end of the month - so
lasts me typically three or four months at a time.

[1] Because it doesn't fall back to 2.5G/GPRS outside their service
area. The Vodafone one does.
--
Roland Perry

Julian King

unread,
Aug 11, 2010, 5:29:43 AM8/11/10
to
Jon Green wrote:
> On 10/08/2010 14:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <7p6dnb04K9Nkz_zR...@giganews.com>, at 08:24:09
>> on Tue, 10 Aug 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:
>>> Good grief! It's just point and click on the O2 web site, or at a cash
>>> machine for that matter.
>>
>> I'm topping up a 3G dongle, which seems to be more complicated for some
>> reason.
>
> Well, on 3 you can use the dongle to get into their own website even if
> you've no credit left, and type in a voucher code you bought from your
> friendly local corner store. It's worked for me anyway -- except for
> the one occasion when they accidentally blocked their own "Top Up From
> Voucher" page. Molto apologies received for that! Normally, though, I
> top up from a pre-registered card the same way.

You can also top up by credit card... except where it then takes you to
the "verified by Visa" site, whereupon you are leaving the three network and
it stops working.. unless you have credit...

> Jon

Julian
--
Julian King | There once was a limerick .sig | My opinions, all
Computer Officer | that really was not very big | mine. You can't
University of Cambridge | It was going quite fine | have them!
Unix Support | Till it reached the fourth line | P.S. It's a joke

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 11, 2010, 6:08:44 AM8/11/10
to
In message <FDx*HT...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 10:29:43 on Wed,
11 Aug 2010, Julian King <jp...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>You can also top up by credit card... except where it then takes you to
>the "verified by Visa" site, whereupon you are leaving the three network and
>it stops working.. unless you have credit...

I had exactly this problem topping up a Mobistar SIm in Belgium last
month. It's a fundamental error! I had to find a wifi network in order
to top-up the 3G, which in a way is giving in to their stupidity.
--
Roland Perry

Theo Markettos

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Aug 11, 2010, 7:09:06 AM8/11/10
to
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
[Three Mobile Broadband]

> [1] Because it doesn't fall back to 2.5G/GPRS outside their service
> area. The Vodafone one does.

Tip: if you're on PAYG, throw away the SIM supplied with the Three dongle
and replace it with a new 3Pay SIM (free or 99p from various places,
including eBay). 2G fallback is enabled on SIMs for phones but not SIMs for
dongles. Otherwise there's no difference in the services - you can still
buy the same mobile broadband bundles that you would on the mobile broadband
SIM.

Theo

Theo Markettos

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Aug 11, 2010, 7:13:25 AM8/11/10
to
Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote:
> I once tried to visit Canterbury, as I was passing. Being a stranger and
> not knowing my way around I was prepared to pay to park (in Cambridge, by
> contrast, being a local, I knew where to park free in the city centre).
> However having followed the signs round the town centre a couple of times
> and found no indication that it was possible to park anywhere at all at
> any price (IIRC, it was decades ago now, I found one small car park which
> was full) I drove out again and continued my journey. I've still never
> been to Canterbury.

Strangely enough, this was my French friends' experience of passing through
Cambridge. Whether they were unused to UK signage I don't know, but they
did know what a Park and Ride was when I provided that as a solution.

Theo

Theo Markettos

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Aug 11, 2010, 7:19:35 AM8/11/10
to
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In a move that the good burghers of Cambridge might care to emulate,
> there's a *free* bus every 10 minutes from that (free) P&R to the nearby
> Queens University Hospital. That bus also circles the entire campus,
> compared to the regular stage buses which either drop you at the front
> door (or the back door for a small number of routes) and therefore
> reduces walking distances and/or getting lost in the maze of buildings.

The good burghers of Cambridge already do. The A, formerly the H1, runs
every 15 mins from Trumpington P&R to Addenbrookes. It circles the entire
campus, and is hail-and-ride in various places. It isn't free (something
like 1.80 return now) but is rather a bargain compared to hospital parking.
It also doesn't call at the hospital bus station (because that would mean
leaving the site and negotiating a busy roundabout)

The Citi 7 and 31 also circle the campus on their journeys from points
south.

Theo

Roland Perry

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Aug 11, 2010, 7:34:20 AM8/11/10
to
In message <wQr*0e...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 12:09:06 on Wed,
11 Aug 2010, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:

Thanks, I'll remember that.

I'm almost certain I did *originally* have 2G fallback on the dongle SIM
because I noticed that the connection was lost when it roamed to 2G or
back (whereas with Vodafone it doesn't drop, the change is seamless
apart from the speed changing). As it's roaming between networks, you
can almost forgive it. But I wouldn't know all this if the SIM had never
been roam-enabled, would I?

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry

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Aug 11, 2010, 7:47:48 AM8/11/10
to
In message <xQr*rh...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 12:19:35 on Wed,
11 Aug 2010, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:
>> In a move that the good burghers of Cambridge might care to emulate,
>> there's a *free* bus every 10 minutes from that (free) P&R to the nearby
>> Queens University Hospital. That bus also circles the entire campus,
>> compared to the regular stage buses which either drop you at the front
>> door (or the back door for a small number of routes) and therefore
>> reduces walking distances and/or getting lost in the maze of buildings.
>
>The good burghers of Cambridge already do.

Apart from not being free, and not being from the more obvious Babraham
P&R ;)

> The A, formerly the H1, runs every 15 mins from Trumpington P&R to
>Addenbrookes. It circles the entire campus, and is hail-and-ride in
>various places. It isn't free (something like 1.80 return now) but is
>rather a bargain compared to hospital parking.

>It also doesn't call at the hospital bus station (because that would mean
>leaving the site and negotiating a busy roundabout)

The Nottingham one does in one direction, but I don't think the other,
due mainly to the road layout on Derby Road, but the hospital bus
station (and main entrance) is also on an upper level, and the free bus
travels round mainly on the lower level: http://goo.gl/maps/JwQP
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry

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Aug 11, 2010, 8:32:43 AM8/11/10
to
In message <vQr*1f...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 12:13:25 on Wed,
11 Aug 2010, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:

If you come in from the west, it's very easy to miss all the P&R signage
(got the t-shirt, a few months ago). Now, I know where they are, I was
just a bit out of date on whether there'd been some road junction
changes.
--
Roland Perry

Tim Ward

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Aug 11, 2010, 12:26:49 PM8/11/10
to
"Theo Markettos" <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:vQr*1f...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

>
> Strangely enough, this was my French friends' experience of passing
> through
> Cambridge. Whether they were unused to UK signage I don't know, but they
> did know what a Park and Ride was when I provided that as a solution.

There was a time when the only obvious way to park in the city centre was
Lion Yard, which was usually full with long queues, which would give exactly
that impression, but I don't think it's looked like for quite a while now.

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor


tony sayer

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Aug 12, 2010, 5:29:41 AM8/12/10
to
In article <4c6073cf$0$27997$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk>, Jonathan Anderson
<j...@durge.org> scribeth thus

>On 09/08/2010 22:00, tony sayer wrote:
>>>>>> I have never been able to see the logic in building places like the
>>>>>> Grandiose Arcade in the town centre. Some shops for people like
>>>>>> students
>>>>>> and a small number who live right in the middle of town, but just how
>>>>>> many as a percentage of their "footfall" go there from their homes on
>>>>>> foot?..
>>>>>> Cambridge should have had a proper ring road system where you put the
>>>>>> shopping centres like the places on Newmarket road which are in the
>>>>>> wrong place, on proper out of the town centre industrial/commercial
>>>>>> parks.
>>>>> What would you have in the town centre instead? Or would you prefer to
>>>>> let it die?
>>>> Its being choked to death as it is, theres too much there of the wrong
>>>> sort.
>>> What's the right sort?
>> Large shopping centres..
>
>Excuse my lack of attribution but the comment about Grand Arcade (a
>large shopping centre) being "not right" for the town centre and the
>comment about large shopping centres being the "right sort" of thing for
>the town centre are both yours.
>
>Just curious - you maybe got confused as to what was asked, so what *is*
>the right thing for the centre of town in your opinion?
>
>I'm interested as I shop in the centre quite happily although rarely use
>shops in the Grafton or Grand Arcade. Not because they don't stock stuff
>but because as a shopping "ambience" goes they're ineffably shite.
>Strange as it sounds, I prefer the aesthetics of wandering about the
>town centre shops.
>
>When I lived out of town I preferred going to the shopping centres
>because traipsing around the centre was a bind, having spent all that
>time getting in.
>
>Jon

In a nutshell I think that there doesn't need to be as much shopping in
the centre of a unique medieval town centre such as their is. Some shops
of course but I never thought that places like the Grande arcade should
have been built there. Some smaller shops to cater for the locals of
course, but bigger developments best left to the ring road system that
Cambridge never had.

Like Newmarket road, another total balls up too much traffic generated
by the wrong sort of development in the wrong place generating too much
traffic of the wrong sort in the wrong place like the southern
approaches to Cambridge. A lot of time during the day Trumpington high
St more resembles a car park, and I suppose thats not going to improve
when -x- thousand people start living here..

Still its all built and done now, and its not going to go away and its
going to be choked by ever more traffic etc...
--
Tony Sayer



tony sayer

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Aug 12, 2010, 5:32:57 AM8/12/10
to
In article <AIQ39AFS...@perry.co.uk>, Roland Perry
<rol...@perry.co.uk> scribeth thus

Wonder why I left three;?.

Mind you the others aren't that much better but in this day and age why
do you have to traipse to a phone shop for a simple top up?. Can't they
give you a paper voucher you can print out at home?.

Can't you do it over the web or by phone?.

I can even book Ryanair tickets that way;!....
--
Tony Sayer



Roland Perry

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Aug 12, 2010, 6:35:27 AM8/12/10
to
In message <eWUUL6NJ$7YM...@bancom.co.uk>, at 10:32:57 on Thu, 12 Aug
2010, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> remarked:

>Mind you the others aren't that much better but in this day and age why
>do you have to traipse to a phone shop for a simple top up?. Can't they
>give you a paper voucher you can print out at home?.
>
>Can't you do it over the web or by phone?.

The problem with 3 was the inability to do it *now* with a credit card.
Vodafone I think I can top up online, and as credit (on my plan) doesn't
expire it's less time sensitive (I can do it in advance of actually
running out).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 6:32:47 AM8/12/10
to
In message <bWHV7iNF...@bancom.co.uk>, at 10:29:41 on Thu, 12 Aug
2010, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>In a nutshell I think that there doesn't need to be as much shopping in
>the centre of a unique medieval town centre such as their is. Some shops
>of course but I never thought that places like the Grande arcade should
>have been built there. Some smaller shops to cater for the locals of
>course, but bigger developments best left to the ring road system that
>Cambridge never had.

iirc part of the problem was that John Lewis apparently said "either we
get a brand new big shop (on effectively the original site)" or we
leave.
--
Roland Perry

The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 12, 2010, 6:38:17 AM8/12/10
to


more fool them. The new shop isn't a patch on the old.

Alan

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Aug 12, 2010, 6:42:58 AM8/12/10
to
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:32:47 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

According to their staff, they actually wanted a new shop where Arbury
Camps has now been built. But they were refused planning permission.
Then the later bending over backwards to try and keep them in Cambridge.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Rupert Moss-Eccardt

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Aug 12, 2010, 7:33:27 AM8/12/10
to

Arbury Camps/Park/Orchard Park is not in Cambridge.

There was also the proposal to move to Duxford, which isn't in Cambridge
either.

The Natural Philosopher

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Aug 12, 2010, 7:59:30 AM8/12/10
to
which is odd, because the council policies seem hell bent on driving
business out of Cambridge.

Roland Perry

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Aug 12, 2010, 8:09:56 AM8/12/10
to
In message <b_Q8o.126751$X%4.28612@hurricane>, at 12:33:27 on Thu, 12
Aug 2010, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <r.moss-...@computer.org> remarked:

>> According to their staff, they actually wanted a new shop where Arbury
>> Camps has now been built. But they were refused planning permission.
>> Then the later bending over backwards to try and keep them in Cambridge.
>
>Arbury Camps/Park/Orchard Park is not in Cambridge.

No-one was trying to "keep them in Cambridge" by offering that site.
Quite the reverse.

>There was also the proposal to move to Duxford, which isn't in
>Cambridge either.

JL have some out-of-town stores, which would often be near motorway
junctions. There's always been a missed opportunity at Trumpington, I
think - there's a Waitrose there already.
--
Roland Perry

Richard Kettlewell

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Aug 12, 2010, 8:40:56 AM8/12/10
to
Rupert Moss-Eccardt <r.moss-...@computer.org> writes:
> Alan wrote:

[John Lewis]


>> According to their staff, they actually wanted a new shop where Arbury
>> Camps has now been built. But they were refused planning permission.
>> Then the later bending over backwards to try and keep them in Cambridge.
>
> Arbury Camps/Park/Orchard Park is not in Cambridge.

It may not be legally in Cambridge but it is just over the road from
Cambridge, and would probably have been about as convenient to get to
from a nontrivial distance as the shops on Newmarket Road are (for
whatever that's worth).

(Or was the intended implication that who gets the business rates
matters more than convenience for customers?)

--
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Theo Markettos

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 9:11:22 AM8/12/10
to
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <eWUUL6NJ$7YM...@bancom.co.uk>, at 10:32:57 on Thu, 12 Aug
> 2010, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
> >Mind you the others aren't that much better but in this day and age why
> >do you have to traipse to a phone shop for a simple top up?. Can't they
> >give you a paper voucher you can print out at home?.

You can buy such a paper voucher from any newsagent or supermarket who is
part of the various Paypoint/etc schemes. Most of the chains and many
independents are so-enabled. Or from a cash machine.

> >Can't you do it over the web or by phone?.

Yes (subject to a 7 day registration delay, as Roland said). This caught me
out the first time - at the time I was standing in the middle of a field
with no handy newsagent.

> The problem with 3 was the inability to do it *now* with a credit card.
> Vodafone I think I can top up online, and as credit (on my plan) doesn't
> expire it's less time sensitive (I can do it in advance of actually
> running out).

Three topups also don't expire. You get various free extras with a topup
which are time-limited (like free Three-to-Three calls for 3 months), but if
you don't care about those then it doesn't matter when you topup. Some
other networks don't offer such features, so that shouldn't be seen as a
downside.

I can't remember whether Paypoint etc paper vouchers have an expiry time on
them, though.

Theo

Brian Morrison

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Aug 12, 2010, 9:17:22 AM8/12/10
to
On 12 Aug 2010 14:11:22 +0100 (BST)
Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Three topups also don't expire.

That's definitely changed then, 3 topups used to expire after a month
or at most 90 days.

--

Brian Morrison

Theo Markettos

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 9:17:33 AM8/12/10
to
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> JL have some out-of-town stores, which would often be near motorway
> junctions. There's always been a missed opportunity at Trumpington, I
> think - there's a Waitrose there already.

There's also the JL collection point, which can be thought of as a JL store
without the browsing... order online, collect from Trumpington P&R, no
postage charges. OK, a large number of things JL sells are those that you'd
wish to browse first but it could be handy for things where you already know
what you want.

Theo

Jon Green

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Aug 12, 2010, 9:27:50 AM8/12/10
to
On 12/08/2010 14:11, Theo Markettos wrote:
> Three topups also don't expire.

The data ones do. A £10 1GB top-up lasts 30 days, use it or lose it.

Roland Perry

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Aug 12, 2010, 9:28:36 AM8/12/10
to
In message <vQr*B0...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 14:17:33 on Thu,
12 Aug 2010, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:

In other words an Argos clone.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry

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Aug 12, 2010, 9:29:04 AM8/12/10
to
In message <8762zgu...@araminta.anjou.terraraq.org.uk>, at 13:40:56
on Thu, 12 Aug 2010, Richard Kettlewell <r...@greenend.org.uk> remarked:

>(Or was the intended implication that who gets the business rates
>matters more than convenience for customers?)

The Gummint gets all the business rates.
--
Roland Perry

Richard Kettlewell

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Aug 12, 2010, 9:33:37 AM8/12/10
to
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
> 13:40:56 on Thu, 12 Aug 2010, Richard Kettlewell <r...@greenend.org.uk>:

>>(Or was the intended implication that who gets the business rates
>>matters more than convenience for customers?)
>
> The Gummint gets all the business rates.

Fair enough, it can't that then l-)

--
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Roland Perry

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Aug 12, 2010, 9:32:57 AM8/12/10
to
In message <wQr*+Yp...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 14:11:22 on Thu,
12 Aug 2010, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:

>> The problem with 3 was the inability to do it *now* with a credit card.
>> Vodafone I think I can top up online, and as credit (on my plan) doesn't
>> expire it's less time sensitive (I can do it in advance of actually
>> running out).
>
>Three topups also don't expire.

The dongle ones do, although starter packs are available where the
expiry is longer (eg buy 3GB with a 3 month expiry).
--
Roland Perry

Theo Markettos

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 10:31:48 AM8/12/10
to
Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote:
> On 12/08/2010 14:11, Theo Markettos wrote:
> > Three topups also don't expire.
>
> The data ones do. A £10 1GB top-up lasts 30 days, use it or lose it.

That's different. You put some money on your account. This can be used for
calls, data or texts and doesn't expire. You can convert £10 of that to a
month's data bundle, but you don't have to straightaway. If you don't make
a chargeable event every 180 days (or whatever the exact wording is) your
account will be deactivated, but that's the same for any network.

However I'm not familiar with the mobile broadband web interface, because in
practice there are some significant disadvantages to having a mobile
broadband SIM rather than a phone SIM that you happen to use in a dongle.
So it's possible that doesn't allow you an intermediate stage between
crediting the account and buying a data bundle. When run from a phone (or a
laptop+dongle using the phone APN three.co.uk - which has NAT), this
intermediate stage does exist.

Theo

Roland Perry

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Aug 12, 2010, 10:58:32 AM8/12/10
to
In message <uQr*1f...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 15:31:48 on Thu,
12 Aug 2010, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:

>Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote:
>> On 12/08/2010 14:11, Theo Markettos wrote:
>> > Three topups also don't expire.
>>
>> The data ones do. A £10 1GB top-up lasts 30 days, use it or lose it.
>
>That's different. You put some money on your account. This can be used for
>calls, data or texts and doesn't expire.

But the data will be at an absurd price like £1/megabyte.

>You can convert £10 of that to a
>month's data bundle, but you don't have to straightaway. If you don't make
>a chargeable event every 180 days (or whatever the exact wording is) your
>account will be deactivated, but that's the same for any network.

I'm sure my 3 dongle has been dormant longer than that, and was
reactivated without a problem.

>However I'm not familiar with the mobile broadband web interface, because in
>practice there are some significant disadvantages to having a mobile
>broadband SIM rather than a phone SIM that you happen to use in a dongle.
>So it's possible that doesn't allow you an intermediate stage between
>crediting the account and buying a data bundle. When run from a phone (or a
>laptop+dongle using the phone APN three.co.uk - which has NAT), this
>intermediate stage does exist.

Confusion pricing, the hallmark of most telcos.
--
Roland Perry

rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

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Aug 12, 2010, 11:27:22 AM8/12/10
to
In article <gNRvsssU...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland
Perry) wrote:

> JL have some out-of-town stores, which would often be near motorway
> junctions. There's always been a missed opportunity at Trumpington,
> I think - there's a Waitrose there already.

Not a missed opportunity but a narrow escape.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 11:27:21 AM8/12/10
to
In article <bWHV7iNF...@bancom.co.uk>, to...@bancom.co.uk (tony sayer)
wrote:

> In a nutshell I think that there doesn't need to be as much shopping in
> the centre of a unique medieval town centre such as their is. Some shops
> of course but I never thought that places like the Grande arcade should
> have been built there. Some smaller shops to cater for the locals of
> course, but bigger developments best left to the ring road system that
> Cambridge never had.

It may be your belief but it flies in the face of the facts. Cambridge
City Centre has one of the highest shopping turnovers in the country. That
won't be for lack of demand!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 11:27:22 AM8/12/10
to
In article <b_Q8o.126751$X%4.28612@hurricane>, r.moss-...@computer.org
(Rupert Moss-Eccardt) wrote:

They also wanted to have an out of town store at Trumpington. Fortunately,
the Governments of the time woke up just in time to the enormous car trip
generation threat from such nonsenses.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Mark Goodge

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 12:30:16 PM8/12/10
to
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:27:22 -0500, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk put
finger to keyboard and typed:

>They also wanted to have an out of town store at Trumpington. Fortunately,
>the Governments of the time woke up just in time to the enormous car trip
>generation threat from such nonsenses.

So instead of going by car to a convenient out-of-town location, customers
now go by car to an inner-city location that's awkward to access,
generating congestion as they go?

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 12:38:24 PM8/12/10
to
unsubstantiated assertions again.
What IS a 'shopping turnover'? The rate at which shops go out of business?

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 12:39:02 PM8/12/10
to
So instead everyone drive to Ely, instead.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 12:39:49 PM8/12/10
to
Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:27:22 -0500, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk put
> finger to keyboard and typed:
>
>> They also wanted to have an out of town store at Trumpington. Fortunately,
>> the Governments of the time woke up just in time to the enormous car trip
>> generation threat from such nonsenses.
>
> So instead of going by car to a convenient out-of-town location, customers
> now go by car to an inner-city location that's awkward to access,
> generating congestion as they go?
>
> Mark
In a nutshell, yes. Sheer Rosentiel Genius!

Or use the nasty polluting diesel buses.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 12:42:44 PM8/12/10
to
Any more narrow escapes like that, and every day will be your funeral.

The arrogance of someone who is basically defending an unpopular
decision whilst maintaining he is in fact a democrat, is awesome.

Bloody fascist. "WE know what is good for you, like it or lump it."


Sarah Cooper

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Aug 12, 2010, 12:49:00 PM8/12/10
to
In article <i41820$u56$1...@news.albasani.net>, t...@invalid.invalid (The
Natural Philosopher) wrote:

there certainly seem to be a lot of empty units. Every time I go in, the
shops have changed too.

--
SCoop

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 12:59:00 PM8/12/10
to
Well, that's an 'oustanding success then innit?

If no shops are left open, no one will want to drive or cycle there, and
the streets will be clear for bicycles and pedestrians, shortly before
become urban wasteland.


:-)

Jonathan Anderson

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 2:07:37 PM8/12/10
to
On 12/08/2010 16:27, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> It may be your belief but it flies in the face of the facts. Cambridge
> City Centre has one of the highest shopping turnovers in the country. That
> won't be for lack of demand!

Did you mean to say city centre shops collectively have one of the
highest levels of turnover in the country?

Would be interested to know how "centre" is defined.

Jon


Ian Bidwell

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Aug 12, 2010, 2:06:47 PM8/12/10
to

"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:i418a4$u56$4...@news.albasani.net...


> Any more narrow escapes like that, and every day will be your funeral.
>
> The arrogance of someone who is basically defending an unpopular decision
> whilst maintaining he is in fact a democrat, is awesome.
>
> Bloody fascist. "WE know what is good for you, like it or lump it."
>
> >
>


Strange that following 1995 Conservative guidance (one I S Gummer I believe)
so not a liberal only policy see-


http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-03-15/Orals-1.html


It also seems to be present Gov policy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/22/regeneration-localgovernment

Ian

Duncan Wood

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 2:16:11 PM8/12/10
to
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:33:27 +0100, Rupert Moss-Eccardt
<r.moss-...@computer.org> wrote:

> Alan wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:32:47 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <bWHV7iNF...@bancom.co.uk>, at 10:29:41 on Thu, 12 Aug
>>> 2010, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> remarked:

>>>> In a nutshell I think that there doesn't need to be as much shopping
>>>> in
>>>> the centre of a unique medieval town centre such as their is. Some
>>>> shops
>>>> of course but I never thought that places like the Grande arcade
>>>> should
>>>> have been built there. Some smaller shops to cater for the locals of
>>>> course, but bigger developments best left to the ring road system that
>>>> Cambridge never had.
>>>

>>> iirc part of the problem was that John Lewis apparently said "either
>>> we get a brand new big shop (on effectively the original site)" or we
>>> leave.
>>
>> According to their staff, they actually wanted a new shop where Arbury
>> Camps has now been built. But they were refused planning permission.
>> Then the later bending over backwards to try and keep them in Cambridge.
>>
>
> Arbury Camps/Park/Orchard Park is not in Cambridge.
>
> There was also the proposal to move to Duxford, which isn't in Cambridge
> either.

Duxforf isn't in Cambridge, Arbury parks isn't within the local government
boundary of the city of Cambridge, but irt;'s still in Cambridge from the
point of view of going there or shopping there.

Tim Ward

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 2:38:13 PM8/12/10
to
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c9fgAzlv...@perry.co.uk...
> In message <eWUUL6NJ$7YM...@bancom.co.uk>, at 10:32:57 on Thu, 12 Aug
> 2010, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>>Mind you the others aren't that much better but in this day and age why
>>do you have to traipse to a phone shop for a simple top up?. Can't they
>>give you a paper voucher you can print out at home?.
>>
>>Can't you do it over the web or by phone?.
>
> The problem with 3 was the inability to do it *now* with a credit card.
> Vodafone I think I can top up online, and as credit (on my plan) doesn't
> expire it's less time sensitive (I can do it in advance of actually
> running out).

Why go to all this hassle in the first place?

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor


Tim Ward

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 2:40:18 PM8/12/10
to
"Duncan Wood" <nntp...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote in message
news:op.vhb7o...@lucy.cable.virginmedia.net...

>
> Duxforf isn't in Cambridge, Arbury parks isn't within the local government
> boundary of the city of Cambridge, but irt;'s still in Cambridge from the
> point of view of going there or shopping there.

It's the boundary that matters for planning.

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 2:57:05 PM8/12/10
to
In message <8citcl...@mid.individual.net>, at 19:38:13 on Thu, 12 Aug
2010, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> remarked:

>> The problem with 3 was the inability to do it *now* with a credit card.
>> Vodafone I think I can top up online, and as credit (on my plan) doesn't
>> expire it's less time sensitive (I can do it in advance of actually
>> running out).
>
>Why go to all this hassle in the first place?

To keep the dongle working.
--
Roland Perry

Tim Ward

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 3:04:33 PM8/12/10
to
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ct1nktGB...@perry.co.uk...

Why not get a proper grown-up account where you just use the dongle and then
pay for what you've used? Total amount of hassle zero.

Duncan Wood

unread,
Aug 12, 2010, 3:05:14 PM8/12/10
to
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:40:18 +0100, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote:

> "Duncan Wood" <nntp...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:op.vhb7o...@lucy.cable.virginmedia.net...
>>
>> Duxforf isn't in Cambridge, Arbury parks isn't within the local
>> government
>> boundary of the city of Cambridge, but irt;'s still in Cambridge from
>> the
>> point of view of going there or shopping there.
>
> It's the boundary that matters for planning.
>

To the planners, the rest of us are only concerned with where it actually
is.

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