Swindon WiFi broadband
Plum
Would make a change from 1.77.
Jonathan Schneider
"...eco-friendly residents will switch off their house lights from the office"
So why exactly were said lights left on and how much electricity does
the necessary infrastructure use ? I bet it's tens of watts per
household.
Jon
Roland Perry
18 Nov 2009, Jonathan Schneider <j...@jschneider.tenreversed> remarked:
>"...eco-friendly residents will switch off their house lights from the office"
>
>So why exactly were said lights left on
But it gets better:
"services such as a permanent link to an eco-friendly
electricity meter that would allow users to switch
appliances on or off remotely"
Sounds more like being able to switch off entire ring-mains.
And I wonder if anyone at home at the time, gets a warning they are
about to be plunged into darkness by their partner pressing the wrong
button while out shopping?
Joking apart, a 1400 node mesh Internet system is quite an engineering
feat. How's the Cambridge one doing these days? Rend??
--
Roland Perry
Theo Markettos
> But it gets better:
>
> "services such as a permanent link to an eco-friendly
> electricity meter that would allow users to switch
> appliances on or off remotely"
>
> Sounds more like being able to switch off entire ring-mains.
Google 'smart grid'.
If you can cope with the verbiage, NIST currently has a consultation on how
to do it:
http://www.nist.gov/smartgrid/
Theo
Roland Perry
19 Nov 2009, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:
>> But it gets better:
>>
>> "services such as a permanent link to an eco-friendly
>> electricity meter that would allow users to switch
>> appliances on or off remotely"
>>
>> Sounds more like being able to switch off entire ring-mains.
>
>Google 'smart grid'.
So you have a gadget piggy-backed into every power socket in the house;
actually, to do it properly you have one for every appliance (eg I have
a 6-way extension block powering all the various things in the vicinity
of my TV).
But to turn off lights you've have to develop a similar gadget to fit
inside every light socket! Most traditional fittings are already coping
(often badly) with the larger form factor of low-energy bulbs - and they
want to add something on top.
How much will this 100 or so gadgets per house be costing?
(If these gadgets could also be programmed to turn lights off
automatically eg in the kid's bedrooms at the times they are supposed to
be at school, that would save quite a bit of electricity!)
--
Roland Perry
Paul Bird
<snip>
> inside every light socket! Most traditional fittings are already coping
> (often badly) with the larger form factor of low-energy bulbs - and they
> want to add something on top.
>
> How much will this 100 or so gadgets per house be costing?
>
> (If these gadgets could also be programmed to turn lights off
> automatically eg in the kid's bedrooms at the times they are supposed to
> be at school, that would save quite a bit of electricity!)
Nah.. one PID per room in the ceiling like offices, switches them off after
10mins with no movement.
--
Paul Bird
Plum
"Paul Bird" <pa...@NOSPAMcamtutor.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7mn7v5F...@mid.individual.net...
Have now discovered that central Cambridge is already wired up for this Wifi
broadband and that it was the first city to try it out. Don't know how far
out it extends though. Not far, I believe. Those of us who are the wrong
side of the tracks (Cromwell Road) are probably too far away. Must
investigate. Would love a faster connection even if the lights are not
going on and off. And am not trying to get something for nothing for once.
Roland Perry
Nov 2009, Paul Bird <pa...@NOSPAMcamtutor.co.uk> remarked:
These PID's - are they wireless with battery power, or is it a
tear-up-the floorboards exercise? You'd still need one of the "turning
off" gadgets added to every light, and a database to tell it (eg) which
table lights are in which room this week.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
10:50:27 on Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Plum <chey...@waitrose.com> remarked:
>Have now discovered that central Cambridge is already wired up for this
>Wifi broadband and that it was the first city to try it out.
Yes, I mentioned this a couple of days ago.
>Don't know how far out it extends though. Not far, I believe.
Nor do I, it's been a bit quiet recently. Anyone know if it's still
running?
>Those of us who are the wrong side of the tracks (Cromwell Road) are
>probably too far away. Must investigate. Would love a faster
>connection even if the lights are not going on and off. And am not
>trying to get something for nothing for once.
I think the way the Cambridge system works is that a proportion of the
base station "hosts" are connected with conventional wired technology
into their premises, which feeds connectivity into the grid at several
places. The Swindon one sounds more like "public" infrastructure mounted
maybe on street lights. How does the connectivity get fed in? (One could
speculate about power-line to the lamp-posts, or maybe they also have a
few nodes on buildings, fed by conventional landline connectivity).
The less they reveal about such things, the more I'm inclined to suspect
vapourware.
--
Roland Perry
Paul Bird
> In message <7mn7v5F...@mid.individual.net>, at 10:05:25 on Fri, 20
> Nov 2009, Paul Bird <pa...@NOSPAMcamtutor.co.uk> remarked:
>>Nah.. one PID per room in the ceiling like offices, switches them off after
>>10mins with no movement.
>
> These PID's - are they wireless with battery power, or is it a
> tear-up-the floorboards exercise? You'd still need one of the "turning
> off" gadgets added to every light, and a database to tell it (eg) which
> table lights are in which room this week.
mounted, circular, small, wired into the lighting circuit therefore mains
powered, I'd be surprised to see them in a domestic dwelling but you could
do it. I don't know about wiring it into a database, can't see the point,
they just turn off the lights after a period when nobody's there.
--
Paul Bird
Thomas Womack
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>But to turn off lights you've have to develop a similar gadget to fit
>inside every light socket!
Surely you fit it inside the light switch; get to control a whole
collection of known-to-be-coherent lights at a time, and since nobody
looks at the indicated state of a light switch, having it turn off
automatically isn't an issue provided that flipping the switch turns
it back on.
Tom
Duncan Wood
Paul Bird
Waving arms about. Yes cam.misc has done that one not too long ago,
hello Brian.
PB
Roland Perry
>Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <7mn7v5F...@mid.individual.net>, at 10:05:25 on Fri, 20
>> Nov 2009, Paul Bird <pa...@NOSPAMcamtutor.co.uk> remarked:
><snip>
>>>Nah.. one PID per room in the ceiling like offices, switches them off after
>>>10mins with no movement.
>>
>> These PID's - are they wireless with battery power, or is it a
>> tear-up-the floorboards exercise? You'd still need one of the "turning
>> off" gadgets added to every light, and a database to tell it (eg) which
>> table lights are in which room this week.
>Passive Infrared Detector - the ones I've seen in offices are ceiling
>mounted, circular, small, wired into the lighting circuit therefore mains
>powered, I'd be surprised to see them in a domestic dwelling but you could
>do it.
So a "yes" to the "tearing up the floorboards" then.
> I don't know about wiring it into a database, can't see the point,
>they just turn off the lights after a period when nobody's there.
But if they are sending a signal back to the control box, which is then
sending a signal to the "smart grid" gadgets connected to the lights in
that room - you need a database to know which lights are actually *in*
that room.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
20 Nov 2009, Thomas Womack <two...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>>But to turn off lights you've have to develop a similar gadget to fit
>>inside every light socket!
>
>Surely you fit it inside the light switch; get to control a whole
>collection of known-to-be-coherent lights at a time,
That's intrusive (and does an average light socket have any spare space
inside), the general drift of the gadgets I've seen talked about are
added between the supply and the appliance.
> and since nobody looks at the indicated state of a light switch,
I do.
> having it turn off automatically isn't an issue provided that flipping
>the switch turns it back on.
Assuming you don't kill yourself tripping over something while trying to
find the switch.
--
Roland Perry
Paul Bird
What a load of fuss over nothing. I can understand people wanting to turn
the heating on an hour before they get home, but lights? They are only
needed by the people in the room at the time, good grief you could probably
get a PIR mounted in the same box as the light switch and bugger tearing up
the floor boards.
--
Paul Bird
Malcolm
>
> I do.
particularly when I am changing the light bulbs - even the double
switched lights I know which pairs are off.
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
chey...@waitrose.com (Plum) wrote:
> "Paul Bird" <pa...@NOSPAMcamtutor.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:7mn7v5F...@mid.individual.net...
> > Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> But to turn off lights you've have to develop a similar gadget to fit
> >> inside every light socket! Most traditional fittings are already
> >> coping (often badly) with the larger form factor of low-energy
> >> bulbs - and they want to add something on top.
> >>
> >> How much will this 100 or so gadgets per house be costing?
> >>
> >> (If these gadgets could also be programmed to turn lights off
> >> automatically eg in the kid's bedrooms at the times they are supposed
> >> to be at school, that would save quite a bit of electricity!)
> >
> > Nah.. one PID per room in the ceiling like offices, switches them off
> > after 10mins with no movement.
>
> Have now discovered that central Cambridge is already wired up for
> this Wifi broadband and that it was the first city to try it out.
> Don't know how far out it extends though. Not far, I believe.
> Those of us who are the wrong side of the tracks (Cromwell Road)
> are probably too far away. Must investigate. Would love a faster
> connection even if the lights are not going on and off. And am not
> trying to get something for nothing for once.
Doesn't cover the Guildhall. We've been bereft since the HSBC branch in
Peas Hill closed. ;-)
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Jon Green
> What a load of fuss over nothing. I can understand people wanting to turn
> the heating on an hour before they get home, but lights? They are only
> needed by the people in the room at the time, good grief you could probably
> get a PIR mounted in the same box as the light switch and bugger tearing up
> the floor boards.
Don't even need to do that far. You can get bulbs with PIR inbuilt, for
not much more cost than without. (Results of a B&Q raid this evening!)
Jon
--
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam' with
'green-lines'.
Paul Bird
> Paul Bird wrote:
>> What a load of fuss over nothing. I can understand people wanting to turn
>> the heating on an hour before they get home, but lights? They are only
>> needed by the people in the room at the time, good grief you could probably
>> get a PIR mounted in the same box as the light switch and bugger tearing up
>> the floor boards.
>
> Don't even need to do that far. You can get bulbs with PIR inbuilt, for
> not much more cost than without. (Results of a B&Q raid this evening!)
Thank you. We need one for the hall where the switch is a long way from the
front door. I'll go look.
--
Paul Bird
Roland Perry
23:35:57 on Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> remarked:
>> What a load of fuss over nothing. I can understand people wanting to turn
>> the heating on an hour before they get home, but lights? They are only
>> needed by the people in the room at the time, good grief you could probably
>> get a PIR mounted in the same box as the light switch and bugger tearing up
>> the floor boards.
>
>Don't even need to do that far. You can get bulbs with PIR inbuilt,
>for not much more cost than without. (Results of a B&Q raid this
>evening!)
So the conclusion is.... Smart Grids for lighting, as described in the
Swindon Wifi blurb, is entirely the wrong approach?
Although PIRs in the room are not going to allow you to turn off the
lights from far away (which raises the issue of "why?" again).
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.invalid> remarked:
That's a new rose, then?
Would a PIR work through a ceiling mounted light. What about
wall-lights.
--
Roland Perry
Paul Bird
> lights from far away (which raises the issue of "why?" again).
Roland, some times you are indistinguishable from a troll. The PIR turns
the lights off in the absence of human warmth, therefore they don't need
turning off remotely.
--
Paul Bird
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
(Paul Bird) wrote:
Because, being indistinguishable from a troll, Roland lacks human warmth?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
>> lights from far away (which raises the issue of "why?" again).
>
>Roland, some times you are indistinguishable from a troll.
No, I'm just trying to work out if the Swindon people have any
reasonable excuse for claiming that a prime application of their
network is switching off lights, remotely.
>The PIR turns the lights off in the absence of human warmth, therefore
>they don't need turning off remotely.
Warmth? Isn't it movement.
And for all we know the Swindon people want to turn of the lights
despite there being people in the house :)
A reminder of the original story:
<http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/turn-off-
your-livingroom-light-from-the-office-you-can-in-swindon-1822405.html>
--
Roland Perry
Theo Markettos
> So the conclusion is.... Smart Grids for lighting, as described in the
> Swindon Wifi blurb, is entirely the wrong approach?
Lighting is mostly a red herring here. If everywhere is populated with 10W
CFLs, the gain in turning them off may be outweighed by the hassle.
The big idea is trying to spread out peakiness in the load, for which the
big users are heating and refridgeration. When the red lights come on at
the nuclear power station, the idea is that some airconditioners can be
switched off rather than having to keep an extra power station idle just in
case.
A less extreme example is trying to spread bursty loads like refridgeration
so that the compressor duty cycles are spread out over time - so when
there's a power cut there isn't a huge load spike when all the compressors
start up at once. Ditto things like everyone's heating coming on at exactly
6pm.
A different scenario is when you stay at a friend's house you want to charge
your electric car, but make sure it is billed to you. But that means
telling the power company where you spent the night.
There are huge security, privacy and control systems questions here than
haven't been answered. And the timescale is very short in which to answer
them (intended deployment is 2012 - I laughed when I heard that).
Theo
Roland Perry
21 Nov 2009, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:
>The big idea is trying to spread out peakiness in the load, for which the
>big users are heating and refridgeration.
I don't have much of either of those. Except the oven, of course. I'd be
a bit wary of anyone trying to switch my oven off while I'm in the
middle of cooking dinner.
--
Roland Perry
Paul Bird
>
> <http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/turn-off-
> your-livingroom-light-from-the-office-you-can-in-swindon-1822405.html>
Don't be ridiculous, I'm not going to spoil a good rant with the facts! ;-)
--
Paul Bird
Jon Green
> Lighting is mostly a red herring here. If everywhere is populated with 10W
> CFLs, the gain in turning them off may be outweighed by the hassle.
It would certainly take a long time to pay back the (smallish) extra
cost of the PIR detector -- at current energy prices. Five or ten years
down the line, energy may well be far more expensive, so recouping costs
starts to look more attractive.
David Woodhouse
> The big idea is trying to spread out peakiness in the load, for which the
> big users are heating and refridgeration. When the red lights come on at
> the nuclear power station, the idea is that some airconditioners can be
> switched off rather than having to keep an extra power station idle just in
> case.
But you don't need any extra communication for that; you only need to
monitor the frequency of the AC feed.
http://www.dynamicdemand.co.uk/grid.htm
--
dwmw2
Steve
Don't they intentially adjust the frequency during the day to ensure that
the average frequency over 24 hours remains at 50Hz (so electric
clocks,etc. remain accurate)?
David Woodhouse
> Don't they intentially adjust the frequency during the day to ensure that
> the average frequency over 24 hours remains at 50Hz (so electric
> clocks,etc. remain accurate)?
I don't believe that's the case, no.
--
dwmw2
Tim Ward
news:1258975904.29...@macbook.infradead.org...
That's what we were taught at school. Were they lying to us, or have things
changed since the 1960s?
--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor
Kieran Mansley
> That's what we were taught at school. Were they lying to us, or have
> things changed since the 1960s?
They do adjust the frequency, but indirectly - it's a function of how
loaded the grid is. 50Hz is their target, but I don't think they try and
make the mean come out at exactly 50Hz though. Bit sad if they did, as
providing extra generation to shift the frequency would be a really
inefficient way of keeping a few clocks in sync.
Kieran
Tim Ward
news:4b0a751e$0$2522$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> a few clocks in sync.
Everybody had mains clocks synched to the AC in those days, it wasn't just
"a few". Rather more clocks these days work off crystals or radio, so there
are probably fewer mains AC clocks now than there used to be.
Duncan Wood
> "David Woodhouse" <dw...@infradead.org> wrote in message
> news:1258975904.29...@macbook.infradead.org...
> On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 11:14 +0000, Steve wrote:
>> > Don't they intentially adjust the frequency during the day to ensure
>> > that
>> > the average frequency over 24 hours remains at 50Hz (so electric
>> > clocks,etc. remain accurate)?
>>
>> I don't believe that's the case, no.
>
> That's what we were taught at school. Were they lying to us, or have
> things
> changed since the 1960s?
>
There's a European standard, but we're not synchronised to that, & it's
something like 20seconds out on the long term average triggers a
correction the following day.
Duncan Wood
> "Kieran Mansley" <kie...@NOSPAM.gtemail.net> wrote in message
> news:4b0a751e$0$2522$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>>
>> a few clocks in sync.
>
> Everybody had mains clocks synched to the AC in those days, it wasn't
> just
> "a few". Rather more clocks these days work off crystals or radio, so
> there
> are probably fewer mains AC clocks now than there used to be.
>
Well if you're bored.
Section D
http://www.entsoe.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/_library/publications/ce/oh/Policy1_final.pdf
then there's a 10mHz shift in the target frequency to compensate for a day.
Roland Perry
Nov 2009, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> remarked:
>> > Don't they intentially adjust the frequency during the day to ensure
>> > that
>> > the average frequency over 24 hours remains at 50Hz (so electric
>> > clocks,etc. remain accurate)?
>>
>> I don't believe that's the case, no.
>
>That's what we were taught at school. Were they lying to us, or have things
>changed since the 1960s?
Maybe they adjust it at night?
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Mon, 23 Nov 2009, Kieran Mansley <kie...@NOSPAM.gtemail.net> remarked:
>> That's what we were taught at school. Were they lying to us, or have
>> things changed since the 1960s?
>
>They do adjust the frequency, but indirectly - it's a function of how
>loaded the grid is. 50Hz is their target, but I don't think they try and
>make the mean come out at exactly 50Hz though. Bit sad if they did, as
>providing extra generation to shift the frequency would be a really
>inefficient way of keeping a few clocks in sync.
There's plenty of extra generation capacity at night.
--
Roland Perry
David Woodhouse
> "David Woodhouse" <dw...@infradead.org> wrote in message
> news:1258975904.29...@macbook.infradead.org...
> On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 11:14 +0000, Steve wrote:
> > > Don't they intentially adjust the frequency during the day to ensure
> > > that
> > > the average frequency over 24 hours remains at 50Hz (so electric
> > > clocks,etc. remain accurate)?
> >
> > I don't believe that's the case, no.
>
> That's what we were taught at school. Were they lying to us, or have things
> changed since the 1960s?
The other option is that I'm just wrong :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency mentions that they tweak
the target frequency to maintain the long-term average in North America
and in mainland Europe, but doesn't mention the UK. None of the
documentation at http://www.dynamicdemand.co.uk/grid.htm mentions it
either, so I'm guessing that we don't do it (any more?) in the UK.
If we do, that slightly complicates the whole 'dynamic demand'
mechanism.
--
dwmw2
rmer...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Ward) wrote:
> *From:* "Tim Ward" <t...@brettward.co.uk>
> *Date:* Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:39:15 -0000
>
> "David Woodhouse" <dw...@infradead.org> wrote in message
> news:1258975904.29...@macbook.infradead.org...
> On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 11:14 +0000, Steve wrote:
> > > Don't they intentially adjust the frequency during the day to
> > ensure > that
> > > the average frequency over 24 hours remains at 50Hz (so electric
> > > clocks,etc. remain accurate)?
> >
> > I don't believe that's the case, no.
>
> That's what we were taught at school. Were they lying to us, or have
> things changed since the 1960s?
All I can say is there's nothing whatsoever wrong with the timekeeping of a
mains frequency clock I've been using for well over 30 years now.
Alan J. Wylie
> "David Woodhouse" <dw...@infradead.org> wrote in message
> news:1258975904.29...@macbook.infradead.org...
> On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 11:14 +0000, Steve wrote:
>> > Don't they intentially adjust the frequency during the day to
>> ensure > that > the average frequency over 24 hours remains at 50Hz
>> (so electric > clocks,etc. remain accurate)?
>>
>> I don't believe that's the case, no.
> That's what we were taught at school. Were they lying to us, or have
> things changed since the 1960s?
I was sure this topic had come up before somewhere:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/3af663ac37f7e657
Which gives handy links to
http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/
http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/Frequency/Freq60.htm
(nice to see a web page still there three and a half years later)
and
http://www.dynamicdemand.co.uk/chart.htm
which is now missing the graph
--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
Fevric J. Glandules
> http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/
Nice to see that everyone still puts the kettle on at 17:00.
Paul Bird
> Paul Bird wrote:
>> What a load of fuss over nothing. I can understand people wanting to turn
>> the heating on an hour before they get home, but lights? They are only
>> needed by the people in the room at the time, good grief you could probably
>> get a PIR mounted in the same box as the light switch and bugger tearing up
>> the floor boards.
>
> Don't even need to do that far. You can get bulbs with PIR inbuilt, for
> not much more cost than without. (Results of a B&Q raid this evening!)
I went to look at them. It's a day/night light detector, not a PIR.
--
Paul Bird
Roland Perry
>> not much more cost than without. (Results of a B&Q raid this evening!)
>
>I went to look at them. It's a day/night light detector, not a PIR.
Really. That's quite a difference.
Someone left our conservatory lights on [again] the other night, and I
was about to go to B&Q to see if I could get a PIR bulb.
Obviously a night/day bulb is the opposite of what I want (most of the
time the lights in the conservatory need to be off, even though it's
night-time). I suppose they are designed for indoor hallways and stairs?
--
Roland Perry
Mark Ayliffe
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> illuminated us with:
Looks like for indoor use, it's more common to use a separate PIR
detector.
--
Mark
Real email address | Artificial intelligence is no match
is mark at | for natural stupidity.
ayliffe dot org |
Roland Perry
Nov 2009, Mark Ayliffe <mark.see.sig.f...@ayliffe.invalid>
>>>>You can get bulbs with PIR inbuilt, for
>>>> not much more cost than without. (Results of a B&Q raid this evening!)
>>>
>>>I went to look at them. It's a day/night light detector, not a PIR.
>>
>> Really. That's quite a difference.
>>
>> Someone left our conservatory lights on [again] the other night, and I
>> was about to go to B&Q to see if I could get a PIR bulb.
>>
>> Obviously a night/day bulb is the opposite of what I want (most of the
>> time the lights in the conservatory need to be off, even though it's
>> night-time). I suppose they are designed for indoor hallways and stairs?
>
>Looks like for indoor use,
My conservatory is indoors :)
>it's more common to use a separate PIR detector.
But that's back to the old "tearing up the floorboards" scenario (or in
this case "knocking a channel in the plaster"). The light switch for the
conservatory is inside the dining room, you see; and it wouldn't make
sense for the conservatory lights to track movements in the room next
door... if the PIR is designed to somehow clamp onto the existing light
switch.
--
Roland Perry
Mark Ayliffe
> Nov 2009, Mark Ayliffe <mark.see.sig.f...@ayliffe.invalid>
> remarked:
>
>
> My conservatory is indoors :)
I know, that's why I didn't suggest a 500W floodlight. Funnily enough
we have one of those lighting our conservatory (from outside), but
that's because it pre-dates the conservatory..
>>it's more common to use a separate PIR detector.
>
> But that's back to the old "tearing up the floorboards" scenario (or in
> this case "knocking a channel in the plaster"). The light switch for the
> conservatory is inside the dining room, you see; and it wouldn't make
> sense for the conservatory lights to track movements in the room next
> door... if the PIR is designed to somehow clamp onto the existing light
> switch.
I suspect it ought to be possible to place a PIR detector very close
the the ceiling rose without too much tearing up of floorboards..
--
Mark
Real email address |
is mark at | The most destructive force in the universe is gossip.
ayliffe dot org |
Roland Perry
remarked:
>>>Looks like for indoor use,
>>
>> My conservatory is indoors :)
>
>I know, that's why I didn't suggest a 500W floodlight. Funnily enough
>we have one of those lighting our conservatory (from outside), but
>that's because it pre-dates the conservatory..
>
>>>it's more common to use a separate PIR detector.
>>
>> But that's back to the old "tearing up the floorboards" scenario (or in
>> this case "knocking a channel in the plaster"). The light switch for the
>> conservatory is inside the dining room, you see; and it wouldn't make
>> sense for the conservatory lights to track movements in the room next
>> door... if the PIR is designed to somehow clamp onto the existing light
>> switch.
>
>I suspect it ought to be possible to place a PIR detector very close
>the the ceiling rose without too much tearing up of floorboards..
There's no ceiling rose in my conservatory, just a few wall-lights (on
what used to be the outside wall of the house). Unless there's a *very*
cunning way of fitting a PIR between them and the wall, I can't see how
I can avoid chipping away at the plaster.
--
Roland Perry
Jon Green
> Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote:
>> Don't even need to do that far. You can get bulbs with PIR inbuilt, for
>> not much more cost than without. (Results of a B&Q raid this evening!)
>
> I went to look at them. It's a day/night light detector, not a PIR.
Blast, you're right too. Sorry: saw "sensor", foolishly thought it
meant motion sensor.
Paul Bird
> Paul Bird wrote:
>> Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote:
>>> Don't even need to do that far. You can get bulbs with PIR inbuilt,
>>> for not much more cost than without. (Results of a B&Q raid this
>>> evening!)
>>
>> I went to look at them. It's a day/night light detector, not a PIR.
>
> Blast, you're right too. Sorry: saw "sensor", foolishly thought it
> meant motion sensor.
I'm sorry too ;-) I could do with a light socket fitting PIR & lamp for
the hall, I believe Mr Perry could do with one for his conservatory, so
if you do ever see one combined please post here. I'm sure I saw one in
Homebase in there electrical section some time back but didn't buy it
and since then nothing doing so if I do see one I'll do likewise.
PB
David Woodhouse
This might suffice for some purposes...
http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/eagleeye-motion-detector-p-1020.html
http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/marmitek-x10-bayonet-lamp-module-p-2.html
--
dwmw2
Paul Bird
Oh I see, yes if combined with one of these keyring remotes
<http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/marmitek-x10-key-chain-remote-control-p-1084.html>
then that might be a solution.
PB
John Connett
I was wondering if there might be some form of wireless PIR sensor and
actuator combination which could be adapted to do the job without
digging holes in your walls. If you have seriously deep pockets there
are EnOcean (www.enocean.com) energy harvesting presence detectors.
One example is the PEHA Sensolux (tinyurl.com/yfx8pay).
For more realistic budgets, perhaps one of the battery powered,
wireless PIRs used in Yale security systems (www.yalesupport.com/) or
similar could be adapted to switch on a light rather than sound an
alarm? Might need a delay off switch to keep the light on for a useful
length of time.
Paul Bird
Thanks to DW I think the most practical and not too expensive answer is
the uk-automation X10 route.
PB
Mark Ayliffe
Paul Bird <pa...@NOSPAMcamtutor.co.uk> illuminated us with:
One of these might just be acceptable in a conservatory:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002LSHNAE/
--
Mark
Real email address | The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age,
is mark at | gender, religion, economic status or ethnic background, is
ayliffe dot org | that, deep down inside, we ALL believe that we are above
| average drivers.
Roland Perry
remarked:
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002LSHNAE/
One of the features that would be required is quite a long "on time"
after it triggers. You don't want to be waving your arms every five
minutes to turn the lights back on.
--
Roland Perry
John Burnham
>
> One of the features that would be required is quite a long "on time"
> after it triggers. You don't want to be waving your arms every five
> minutes to turn the lights back on.
You're not thinking outside the box. Simply purchase and wear motorised
deely boppers. The motion from the deely boppers will keep the light
activated.
J