SeaCan (Shipping Container) Hackerspace

[Merovingian]

Hi all,

I got into a pretty lengthy discussion last night about the
possibility of building a space from SeaCans. The idea is a little
out there, but not at all unreasonable.

Instead of leasing industrial space, we could find bare land or a
parking lot and build a space for far less money.

I'll start with some links, just you don't think I'm too crazy:

http://www.trunity.net/upcycling/galleries/view/139348/?topic=15933
http://www.glennonseacanhome.ca
http://mrcontainer.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1
http://www.runkleconsulting.com

A brand new 40' container costs about $6800. I figure it would be
another $1000 to finish it with insulation, drywall, electrical, and
lights. That would net about 275sq feet of space, or $28.40/sq foot.
For comparison sake, a typical commercial lease for light industrial
space in Calgary is around $14/sq foot/year for unfinished space and
say $20+ for developed.

Finished, a 40' container would have 7'x39' of interior room.

Of course the idea is to join several together to make bigger spaces.
You can go sideways and up.

So, cost wise, it's competitive, but here are some other huge
advantages:

1. Awesomeness: We hack our own space!
2. Expandability: Start small and add cubes as we can/need.
3. Low Risk: Small capital outlay and we can always sell the
containers which are a fairly liquid commodity.
4. Portability: They can be moved very easily and cheap (~$100-200
within the city).
5. Durability: They are heavy, strong and weather resistant. ~9,000lbs
of steel.
6. We just need to find vacant land to put them on.
7. Possibility of getting cheap/free containers as sponsorship or
something.
8. Mobility: Take some or all of our space to meets/conventions/
fairs.
9. Security: Hard to break into. Need a cutting torch.

And some drawbacks, all of which have solutions.

1. Utilities: Electricity, heat, water and sewer would need to be 'off-
grid'.
2. Image: This could either work for us or against us.
3. We're trading cost for sweat equity.
4. Possible difficulty with building/city inspectors. Sometimes their
good people, sometimes their douche bags.

We wouldn't be the first people to build out of SeaCans (possibly the
first Hackerspace though). The building codes also don't prohibit
them at all, even if that applies. While out of our price range,
there are several companies in Calgary that manufacture very nice
container buildings mostly for Oil & Gas. Similar to an ATCO trailer,
but more durable and easy to transport.

Let me know what you all think! If this ideal is liked, I'd be
willing to do the design and lead a fabrication group.

[weetabix]

Just to be clear, I was there too, and he was completely sober for his talk. ;)

I think this is kind of an awesome idea, and im completely behind it.

Some of the disadvantages are, obviously, going to take some work, but I think its an opportunity to do something very cool, unique, and frankly, its just damn cool.

Also, as we talked about last night, old, used containers are cheaper, and you can even rent-lease them for tiny cash, though that makes it harder to mod them.

We determined last night we have enough skills within the group RIGHT NOW to do most of the work we would need, and it would not be too hard to find the rest of the work (ticketed plumbing, for example) either for cheap, in trade, or otherwise.

Hell, we could DRIVE out to http://www.glennonseacanhome.ca/ and get some facetime with this guy. he has freakin TOWERS on his house. How cool is that?

We could build our own drop tower :D Our own beamline... telescope enclosure... dungeon for shaw tech support and UPS flunkies! It would be fantastic.

I VOTE YES FOR GROWNUP LEGO!

Wed Jul 13 2011 10:47:30 MDT from "Merovingian" <co...@colinfitzgerald.com> Subject: [Calgary-Hackspace] SeaCan (Shipping Container) Hackerspace

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Calgary Hackspace" group. For list options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/calgary-hackspace

 

[John Jardine]

+1 - Awesome idea.

[codohundo]

I'll post more thoughts later but I just wanted to say, there are a
million reasons not to do this, and every single one of them is
weaksauce. If we can figure out an acceptable place to put it, with
backup plans and whatnot I'd be really into this idea.I think this
would be a great kickstarter too, it solves the capitol vs operating
issue pretty smartly. I like the thought of, you want a metal shop?
Fund raise for another container, slap er on, and away we go. I like
the idea of picking up a whole fab shop and bringing it along to some
big event in BC or Ontario, not to mention closer to home. I'd
personally be willing to COMMIT to a lot of elbow grease. Now my mind
is spinning with ideas, dammit people, I'm supposed to be working.
Travis/Codohundo

On Jul 13, 11:06 am, "weetabix" <weeta...@weetabix.net> wrote:
> Just to be clear, I was there too, and he was completely sober for his talk.
> ;)  
>
> I think this is kind of an awesome idea, and im completely behind it.  
>
> Some of the disadvantages are, obviously, going to take some work, but I
> think its an opportunity to do something very cool, unique, and frankly, its
> just damn cool.  
>
> Also, as we talked about last night, old, used containers are cheaper, and
> you can even rent-lease them for tiny cash, though that makes it harder to
> mod them.  
>
> We determined last night we have enough skills within the group RIGHT NOW to
> do most of the work we would need, and it would not be too hard to find the
> rest of the work (ticketed plumbing, for example) either for cheap, in trade,
> or otherwise.  
>

> Hell, we could DRIVE out tohttp://www.glennonseacanhome.ca/and get some

> facetime with this guy. he has freakin TOWERS on his house. How cool is that?
>
> We could build our own drop tower :D Our own beamline... telescope
> enclosure... dungeon for shaw tech support and UPS flunkies! It would be
> fantastic.  
>
> I VOTE YES FOR GROWNUP LEGO!  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >  Wed Jul 13 2011 10:47:30 MDT from  "Merovingian"
> ><co...@colinfitzgerald.com>  Subject: [Calgary-Hackspace] SeaCan (Shipping
> >Container) Hackerspace
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I got into a pretty lengthy discussion last night about the
> > possibility of building a space from SeaCans.  The idea is a little
> > out there, but not at all unreasonable.
>
> > Instead of leasing industrial space, we could find bare land or a
> > parking lot and build a space for far less money.
>
> > I'll start with some links, just you don't think I'm too crazy:
>
> >http://www.trunity.net/upcycling/galleries/view/139348/?topic=15933
> >http://www.glennonseacanhome.ca

> >http://mrcontainer.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&It...

[Doc]

This could be decent marketing and useful for training ourselves in various prerequsite skills. I think this is a very neat idea. Of course, it comes back down to land. And my only concern would be mostly about maintence/retirement. I'd want to be careful to do this in a portable(ish) way so it can be relocated if required.

Anyway, cool.

[Ryan Bray]

land is still costly mind, even a tiny plot could be tens (to
hundreds) of thousands of dollars.

[Shannon]

You don't have to buy the land you rent it. The advantage of this
type of solution is you aren't tied to the land, as you'd be able to
compartmentalize your building and move it when you go.

I've seen this before:
- They had a movie theatre at the Maker's Faire in YVR that was made
out of 2 sea cans, one on top of the other. Was very functional and
cool.
- Google had their booth at Maker's Faire in SFO made out of 3 sea
cans, another great, mobile application.

The only downside I see off the top of my head is just make sure you
put some heat tape and insulation on the plumbing and water.. :p

The upsides are:
1. you get a really cool, aptly 'hacked' space
2. you can build outbuildings like a theater or shop that are meant
to be mobile can be relatively easy to move to events
3. the press would be fantastic

-Shannon Hoover
endeavorarts.com

On Jul 13, 12:40 pm, Ryan Bray <rbra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> land is still costly mind, even a tiny plot could be tens (to
> hundreds) of thousands of dollars.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Doc <d...@dawning.ca> wrote:
> > This could be decent marketing and useful for training ourselves in various
> > prerequsite skills. I think this is a very neat idea. Of course, it comes
> > back down to land. And my only concern would be mostly about
> > maintence/retirement. I'd want to be careful to do this in a portable(ish)
> > way so it can be relocated if required.
>
> > Anyway, cool.
>

> >> > Hell, we could DRIVE out tohttp://www.glennonseacanhome.ca/andget some

[Merovingian]

Land is still an issue, but I'm thinking we have a very good chance of
'squatting' on someones personal or biz land/lot just because our
footprint will have little to no permanent impact and we can move at
anytime.

Of course, buying/leasing vacant land is still much less then land
with a building. Plus, if we bought, that's a pure appreciating asset
(not money wasted). Find a junk bit of city owned brownfield and your
golden. :)

I agree anything should be kept highly portable.

Codohundo: Definitely post your 'don't do this' reasons: That's
important, because those are the things we need to solve or justify.

[Shannon]

A bit of googling found this:

http://www.shipping-container-housing.com/

Looks like a decent resource if you want to read up on the concept.

[Amokk]

Yeah, never in the history of the planet has the value of land ever gone down. 

--

[Benjamin Reed]

Wow! This is an amazing idea, I wish I would have been there for the
discussion last night! Modular, customized space is a perfect fit for
a hack/makespace! I agree with all of the points for this idea, and I
think the cons are easy to work out. There's lots of green/creative
solutions out there for plumbing and electricity, and land can be
leased instead of bought.

I believe this would be fantastic for our image; re-purposing old
containers for modular communal work areas would get a lot of
attention.. If we do this, we also need a group of creative marketing
types to organize the idea for the public to see rather than just the
raw idea. Maybe a building campaign that outlines why we're doing it,
our scope, milestones, and continuous coverage of the project's
progress.
IMO >> Proper marketing = better image = happier city officials =
grants & funding = happier members :)

Thank you, Metrovingian, for starting this discussion - you have my
support. I can't wait til the wiki is up so we can throw this idea up
there!

On Jul 13, 10:47 am, Merovingian <co...@colinfitzgerald.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I got into a pretty lengthy discussion last night about the
> possibility of building a space from SeaCans.  The idea is a little
> out there, but not at all unreasonable.
>
> Instead of leasing industrial space, we could find bare land or a
> parking lot and build a space for far less money.
>
> I'll start with some links, just you don't think I'm too crazy:
>

> http://www.trunity.net/upcycling/galleries/view/139348/?topic=15933http://www.glennonseacanhome.cahttp://mrcontainer.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&It...http://www.runkleconsulting.com

[Valerie Roney]

I don't think we'd be looking to purchase land at this point, just lease. But lease a peice of a parking lot for a few hundred rather than a commercial/industrial space for a few thousand/mo

I love this idea as we could invest in a space that stays with us, we can litterally "pick up and move" if we get a better deal/location on land or otherwise have to move. It's modular, we can grow as we need to without having to rebuild a new venue every time.

And 'cmon, hacking our own hackerspace? how cool is that?

---I was going to start following up the the commercial realtor on the lease hunt, but it looks like things have taken a shift. I can instead check in with the realtor to get a ball park about costs of leasing land instead of a building, just to give us some perspective. Can somebody give me a sketch of requirements we'd need for land to park this on - size, ground, utilities? I think our locations requirements of it being accessible trasit/parking etc would still aply.

Oh, and we TOTALLY have to do a road trip to Red Deer. Anybody in touch with this guy? http://www.glennonseacanhome.ca/

[Andrew Preece]

On 2011-07-13, at 1:10 PM, Benjamin Reed wrote:

> Wow! This is an amazing idea, I wish I would have been there for the
> discussion last night! Modular, customized space is a perfect fit for
> a hack/makespace! I agree with all of the points for this idea, and I
> think the cons are easy to work out. There's lots of green/creative
> solutions out there for plumbing and electricity, and land can be
> leased instead of bought.
>
> I believe this would be fantastic for our image; re-purposing old
> containers for modular communal work areas would get a lot of
> attention.. If we do this, we also need a group of creative marketing
> types to organize the idea for the public to see rather than just the
> raw idea. Maybe a building campaign that outlines why we're doing it,
> our scope, milestones, and continuous coverage of the project's
> progress.
> IMO >> Proper marketing = better image = happier city officials =
> grants & funding = happier members :)

I wonder if we could get money specifically for this kind of project? Alternate funding sources FTW.

[si...@mungewell.org]

> The only downside I see off the top of my head is just make sure you
> put some heat tape and insulation on the plumbing and water.. :p
>

You could make the water system 'drain down' so that there is nothing to
freeze when the space in un-occupied.

Although the idea is cool (and has sparked a lot of interest) I think that
there are significant disavantages to a space like this in terms of
enviroment - for example lack of natural light, limited airflow, moisture
buildup, limited open space.

Even with interior trim, you have to remember that this is still a big
metal box.

That said I'd still be interested in a trip to RedDeer,
Simon.

[Merovingian]

> Although the idea is cool (and has sparked a lot of interest) I think that
> there are significant disavantages to a space like this in terms of
> enviroment - for example lack of natural light, limited airflow, moisture
> buildup, limited open space.

All this is 'solved' with proper HVAC and mods to the container.

[weetabix]

Oh please. That sounds much better than the two basement nerdlabs I grew up in.;)

 

Wed Jul 13 2011 13:30:14 MDT from "Merovingian" <co...@colinfitzgerald.com> Subject: [Calgary-Hackspace] Re: SeaCan (Shipping Container) Hackerspace

[Valerie Roney]

Hey, anybody got connections in East Village? Lots of abandoned, empty space there. City of Calgary folks might love to have us do something cool there. Then we can pick it all up and move it somewhere else as the area gets redeveloped.

Anybody in touch with CADA poeple? They have a spaces program http://www.calgaryartsdevelopment.com/spaces maybe get them to support us in building ours, then we can help them trick out other art spaces, swap some karma...

[Kath Blair]

I know some people at CADA and have talked to them about some of the spaces initiatives. I can certainly ask Reid Henry about if there's any way we can help each other - maybe put one of the directors in touch with him.

They have several actual spaces that might be options but they are mostly far out, so I will stress more creative ways of helping.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Valerie Roney <rumig...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey, anybody got connections in East Village? Lots of abandoned, empty space there. City of Calgary folks might love to have us do something cool there. Then we can pick it all up and move it somewhere else as the area gets redeveloped.

Anybody in touch with CADA poeple? They have a spaces program http://www.calgaryartsdevelopment.com/spaces maybe get them to support us in building ours, then we can help them trick out other art spaces, swap some karma...

[Valerie Roney]

Sweet! That would be really helpful Kath. You can use me as the director to put Reid in touch with.

[codohundo]

We should try to hit up the city or any other sufficiently large body
and rent/beg some corner of unused land.

Travis/Codohundo

[codohundo]

>
> Codohundo: Definitely post your 'don't do this' reasons:  That's
> important, because those are the things we need to solve or justify.
>

logistics this...
to hard that...
I'll start a list but not here, I'll post more later.

like you say, all problems looking for solutions, not deal breakers
IMO.
to be honest the idea frightens me just a little, and I think that's
why I'm so behind the idea, it's a "Go big or go home, fully hacker
approved" solution, I love it.

Boundless potential only held back by our ideas(no problem there) and
our community (do we have a problem here? or an opportunity!)

Count me in on the design team.

Travis

[Shawn Grover]

My biggest concern is price. I think the land use costs might be more
than we can handle without some external influx of cash on a regular
basis. But I'd rather see the math/numbers before committing to that
fear... :)

[Merovingian]

Here's a really simple layout of a space with 4 cans.

http://files.meetup.com/2093641/scan0096.pdf

I think this would be a minimum, but even two cans would be a start.

[Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen]

Used seacans are ~2k

- Rasmus Rydstrøm
(403) 890 8324

This message was sent from my mobile data device, apologies for typos
and brevity.

[Ryan Bray]

You might be able to get used shipping containers from Police Auctions
near a port city...

2011/7/13 Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen <ras...@raztech.net>:

[Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen]

They are piled up 10+ high out by Glenmore and 84th IIRC

- Rasmus Rydstrøm
(403) 890 8324

This message was sent from my mobile data device, apologies for typos
and brevity.

[codohundo]

If nobody has already, I'm going to contact Bill Glennon, and see if I
can arrange a tour, I'd like to ask him a few questions.

Would you do it again?
What do you wish you knew when you started?
Issues with permits/building code?
How to cope with compartmentalized space?

Let me know if anybody has already contacted this guy, I don't want to
harass anybody, if not, I'll contact him and post back here, I'll take
questions and I'd be willing to give up to 3 people a ride.


Travis/Codohundo

On Jul 13, 3:57 pm, Ryan Bray <rbra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You might be able to get used shipping containers from Police Auctions
> near a port city...
>
> 2011/7/13 Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen <ras...@raztech.net>:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Used seacans are ~2k
>
> > - Rasmus Rydstrøm
> > (403) 890 8324
>
> > This message was sent from my mobile data device, apologies for typos
> > and brevity.
>
> > On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:47, Merovingian <co...@colinfitzgerald.com> wrote:
>
> >> Hi all,
>
> >> I got into a pretty lengthy discussion last night about the
> >> possibility of building a space from SeaCans.  The idea is a little
> >> out there, but not at all unreasonable.
>
> >> Instead of leasing industrial space, we could find bare land or a
> >> parking lot and build a space for far less money.
>
> >> I'll start with some links, just you don't think I'm too crazy:
>
> >>http://www.trunity.net/upcycling/galleries/view/139348/?topic=15933
> >>http://www.glennonseacanhome.ca

> >>http://mrcontainer.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&It...

[Craig Keough]

I hear through the grapevine that you can get them for free in places like vancouver where they are stacked taking up space by the thousands.... I would check fire regulations first though...   steel has a tendancy to crumple fairly quickly when used on a floor.

[Kan .]

Its an awesome idea.. but our winter climate in Alberta sorta destroys this idea, ive had to work in insulated containers in interior BC when its only -15C outside with heaters in them.. and that still sucks ass. we'd have to build them into a larger structure to insulate them properly, plus wiring them into place to provide electricity would mean an inspector and our own power link possibly.. unless we could convince who evers land were on to run us a huge ass line off of their power box.  which would mean moving out of the city of calgary onto a farm community type location where the restrictions are less than in the city.

Unless someone one shows an awesome idea on how to insulate them with proper numbers to back it up, and leave it as a stand alone structure that an inspector wouldn't count as a stationary building having to meet various codes..  this is a scary idea in the winter and in the summer for cooling too.

Victoria, Vancouver.. this would rock... someone prove me wrong on this heat in summer issue and cold as fucking hell in winter issue please!!!!

note all the web pages thats show recycled shipping containers as homes are weak ass climates. nobody ever shows them in alberta, saskatchewan, russia, colorado..  montanna, norway.. anywhere that gets cold.. also no where like egypt, arizona.. mexico.. the okangan. its a mild climate system unless you can create it into a permanent structure burried in dirt,/straw bales or fully insulated into a stand alone building that's not really easy to move.

Also containers are dirt cheap, travel around the news papers etc... and you can probably grab one for 250ish or less.. we'd just need to sand blast and repaint it to fix it up, my parents yard in the Okanagan in BC has 5 of them for storage, and thats no where near a major shipping yard like Vancouver with its ports or Calgary with its rail yards.

sooooo someone prove me wrong on this please.

side note.. as craig says.. steel will crumpling in minutes in a fire, a wood structure will last hours in a fire, not that we'd be building up creating weight on the lower level...

[codohundo]

2x4 strapping with 2" of spray foam is about r12 which can be done DIY
with a kit and once it sets up it's fire resistant, non toxic and acts
as a vapor and sound barrier. But you have a point, it's not
particularly cheep although, this is again a capitol cost not an
operational cost so it's easier for which to fund raise.

Electricity is also an issue for sure, if we want to run machinery a
50' extension isn't going to cut it. Solar, Wind, Batteries,
Generators, Fuel Cells, there are a lot of things we can explore, I
see these as project opportunities.

As for all the web pages only being in temperate locations, the second
link provided by the OP (or is it the third link?) is in red deer,
that's why we're talking about driving there for a peek.

All fair concerns/challenges/opportunities for sure, but weighing that
against a space that we can truly own and adapt, I still think the
idea warrants flushing out. Finding a commercial space that we can
rent that will be as open to "hey, we should have a window here, pass
me that torch" will be hard to come by.

Travis/Codohundo

[Shawn Grover]

On 11-07-13 10:08 PM, codohundo wrote:
> idea warrants flushing out. Finding a commercial space that we can
> rent that will be as open to "hey, we should have a window here, pass
> me that torch" will be hard to come by.

Awesome. A chance to learn how to use a cutting torch properly, AND
free welding classes too (to patch the oopsies, of course). :)

[Travis Alexander]

I have an oxy-acetylene torch, I could manage the cutting but my
welding is rubbish, although I'd be willing to practice/train up
perhaps one of those courses at SAIT we've been talking about.

Travis/Codohundo

[Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen]

I know welders en masse, and own a small mig/arc welding unit.

Know A LOT of people who would be/is excited about this.

- Rasmus Rydstrøm
(403) 890 8324

This message was sent from my mobile data device, apologies for typos
and brevity.

[Shawn Grover]

We talked about doing a welding course in the past. A good friend of
mine is a certified B-Pressure welder and is willing to do the training.
The idea fell apart when it came time to figure out where to do the
training.

If there is still interest, I *might* be able to talk to his boss (who I
also know) and maybe get corporate support from the company (a large
well known org in the manufacturing/production industry). (well, maybe
they'll let us do the training at their shop with their blessing... lol)

On 11-07-13 10:32 PM, Rasmus Rydstr�m-Poulsen wrote:
> I know welders en masse, and own a small mig/arc welding unit.
>
> Know A LOT of people who would be/is excited about this.
>

> - Rasmus Rydstr�m

[Merovingian]

:) Welding will be the easy part. But definitely a welding course, or
location to have one, would be great !

Kan, insulation and heating is a big concern, but this is no different
from any building in this climate. The fact that the outside skin is
steel is immaterial. Actually, many commercial buildings are steel
skinned. We can, and should, do heat loss analysis.

There is definitely a great deal to consider. Some others and my self
are in the process of getting solid information together so we can
look at this idea seriously. I think everyone is going to be
surprised how solid a plan this is. :)

". steel will crumpling in minutes in a fire, a wood structure will
last hours in a fire, not that we'd be building up creating weight on
the lower level... "

If you don't mind me asking, whats the source of this information ?
You do realize that all commercial buildings larger then a house are
entirely steel (sometimes with concrete).. And if you think a wooden
structure will endure hours worth of fire your poorly mistaken. Have
you ever seen how fast a house burns ? The fire rating of any
structure is a combination of thermal tolerance, structural loads and
available fuel.

It's great to raise concerns for investigation, but that's pretty
dubious info. In any event, what ever we might build will be to code.

The cost seems to be highly variable. Possibly from free up to $7,000
for new. I know the new prices because I got a quote on them. Who
knows what good deals we might find!

[Ryan Bray]

http://www.tatasteelconstruction.com/en/design_guidance/structural_design/fire/steelwork_fire_resistance/

[Andrew Funk]

ick, r12 would be very cold in the winter... :(

On that note I love the idea/principle. I a, going to talk to my boss when he is back from vacation next week to see if he has any connections. One of our clients specializes in low cost building construction. If we have our stuff together we might be aboe to get them on board too!

inks

[codohundo]

Houses with older style insulation at 4" are only getting r8-10, at 3"
with this stuff you're approaching r20. Especially when you consider
the quality of thermal break that foam provides, the r value is only
1/2 the story. Seal the envelope and make a fresh air exchange and I
think you'll find that it takes very little to heat it up. Air
movement in the average home accounts for more heat loss than r value.
also if we design it properly we can start at 1" and if that doesn't
cut it, up it to 2" or 3" as needed. Just stud the wall out so we can
screw in vertical sheets of plywood for interior sheathing, it's
durable and we can paint and screw things to it, then we can simply
pull it down, spray in more and put it back up.

Travis/codohundo

On Jul 14, 7:17 am, Andrew Funk <andrew.fun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ick, r12 would be very cold in the winter... :(
>
> On that note I love the idea/principle. I a, going to talk to my boss when he is back from vacation next week to see if he has any connections. One of our clients specializes in low cost building construction. If we have our stuff together we might be aboe to get them on board too!
>
> inks
>

[Craig Keough]

I have 2 Smith 21" cutting torches brand new still in the package for sale.
(I am cleaning the 4 years of collecting in my storage unit... lol)
I have a lot of stuff that might be of interest to space members.

[Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen]

+1

- Rasmus Rydstrøm
(403) 890 8324

This message was sent from my mobile data device, apologies for typos
and brevity.

[Craig Keough]

Could be a good opportunity for someone to design solar heaters :D

[Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen]

So... When is the Protospace road trip to dead rear? :D

- Rasmus Rydstrøm 

(403) 890 8324

This message was sent from my mobile data device, apologies for typos and brevity.

On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:07, weetabix <weet...@weetabix.net> wrote:

Just to be clear, I was there too, and he was completely sober for his talk. ;)

I think this is kind of an awesome idea, and im completely behind it.

Some of the disadvantages are, obviously, going to take some work, but I think its an opportunity to do something very cool, unique, and frankly, its just damn cool.

Also, as we talked about last night, old, used containers are cheaper, and you can even rent-lease them for tiny cash, though that makes it harder to mod them.

We determined last night we have enough skills within the group RIGHT NOW to do most of the work we would need, and it would not be too hard to find the rest of the work (ticketed plumbing, for example) either for cheap, in trade, or otherwise.

Hell, we could DRIVE out to http://www.glennonseacanhome.ca/ and get some facetime with this guy. he has freakin TOWERS on his house. How cool is that?

We could build our own drop tower :D Our own beamline... telescope enclosure... dungeon for shaw tech support and UPS flunkies! It would be fantastic.

I VOTE YES FOR GROWNUP LEGO!

Wed Jul 13 2011 10:47:30 MDT from "Merovingian" <co...@colinfitzgerald.com> Subject: [Calgary-Hackspace] SeaCan (Shipping Container) Hackerspace

Hi all,

I got into a pretty lengthy discussion last night about the
possibility of building a space from SeaCans. The idea is a little
out there, but not at all unreasonable.

Instead of leasing industrial space, we could find bare land or a
parking lot and build a space for far less money.

I'll start with some links, just you don't think I'm too crazy:

http://www.trunity.net/upcycling/galleries/view/139348/?topic=15933
http://www.glennonseacanhome.ca

http://mrcontainer.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1

[Andrew Vliet]

Not that there aren't tons of these on teh 'net, but I have a preliminary design and fab process for a vertical, spiral-type, wind turbine that might prove useful as well.  

Mostly used parts to make it.  Some welding, some fabricating, but quite simple.  

Would be an interesting addition to a sea-can building setup in that it could be attached modularly to any "dead" end of any can.

Also, I'm surprised  there hasn't been more mention of simply cutting in window boxes to fit recovered windows or use of solar tubes for lighting.  

Phosphorescent paint on the roof (inside) so the lights don't go out when the sun quits shining.  Nerd alert: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/highlights_udc04.html

Add a false floor for running cables...  

This all starts to get into the need for one of the small cans to use as a utility "room".

Anyway - back to wage slaving for me...  Quit distracting me damn it..! ;-)

[Kan .]

steel gets hot and crumples, expands and or twists depending how its attached and if its under load, wood can reach the same temperature and even hotter, burn on the out side and still maintain more of its strength.  forest fire fighting prep work ive done in the past in BC, before they send you out into the bush they prep you on everything and warn you about buildings made of steel if you come across any during a fire.

Also the family business burnt in 93ish, was bone dry wood built in the 50's and it stood and burnt for a good 8 hours, we re built with steel for cost/load bearing for a 2nd level concrete floor and all the engineers gave huge warnings over it if we were to have another fire the steel beams would crumple faster. I believe we had to put in more fire exits at shorter intervals than if we had a wood structure to meet safety code.

Check with any sorta engineers who have to design buildings for fire code and see what they say or ask anyone who fights fires (or check their training manuals).  

Anyways, it was more of a comment on safety than anything else.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 12:37 AM, Merovingian <co...@colinfitzgerald.com> wrote:

--

[Andrew Vliet]

No reason there can't be an automated fire suppression system put in...  More expensive, sure, but hey - how much is a human life worth.

[codohundo]

rain barrels on the roof, diy fire suppression system, auto power
disconnect, motion detector armed.... thanks for the great project
ideas ;)

[Benjamin Reed]

Craig: The Wiki is up (wiki.protospace.ca). If you've a lot of stuff
for sale, you could add a page called "Craig's List"? maybe make it a
table columns of the name, price, decription, then an area for members
to add their name if they want it, then a sold field as well? :)

> ...
>
> read more »

[Andrew Vliet]

heh heh - DIY hi-fog fire suppression for "shielded" fires in proto-spaces...  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJNb82UN04A

[Craig Keough]

Thanks Benjamin... I will look into that... I have magnet wire... spools of other wire.... security cameras and stuff... plus other... just taking up space in my storage unit and I dont have the time or space to put any of it to use myself... and would love to give Proto members a bargain because they are doing what I would love to be able to do. :D

--

[Andrew Funk]

I would love to see some designs brought forth, then we can pick a few from them. If we are going be looking at capital costs and possible sourcing of funds we should start a planning committee and look at getting proposals at least started so if we go to the city/charity we can say hey this is what (and what we have), we need a where and how...

inks

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Benjamin Reed <benre...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Tony Grimes]

My thoughts on the Sea Can idea but first of all, I love it; I think we should do it.

Pros

• From a maketing perspective, this idea is gold. 
• Even an epic failure will be great exposure for the group. We can go on tour and present our findings to other spaces, learn from our mistakes and try again. And again.
• I don't think heat in the winter will be a problem. After we insulate, all we have to do is turn on a few servers. If that doesn't work, we buy more servers! We can always bury it.
• I don't think the capital cost can be beat. We could pay for this with our own money if we maxed our membership to 50 for a couple months. Membership Drive!

Cons

• Social events might be a problem. Assuming we start with one this winter, we wouldn't have enough space to host an open house.
• Property rental and utilities are big operating variables. We need to nail down a worst case budget.

I think we definitely need to pursue this, but we should also have a backup plan too. We don't want to be stuck with a cold, empty sea-can come winter.

Tony

[Tony Grimes]

Just a note on cutting a sea-can: we'll need a plasma cutter or a diamond saw. Anything else will make a mess.

Tony

[Andrew Preece]

On 2011-07-14, at 10:27 AM, Andrew Funk <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would love to see some designs brought forth, then we can pick a few from them. If we are going be looking at capital costs and possible sourcing of funds we should start a planning committee and look at getting proposals at least started so if we go to the city/charity we can say hey this is what (and what we have), we need a where and how...

There's a small meeting planned to figure out some of the basic
feasabilty. We're hoping to sell it to the whole this or next Tuesday.

If you're interested in the planning and discovery of this, please
stay tunned, as we will have a more general call to arms pretty soon.
Stuff will also be on the wiki shortly, which somebody will link to
when its up.

[Kan .]

should aim for next week not this week, to not take up too much time with the dorkbot folks, probably something to run on our own meeting with just members and guests vs two groups meeting at the same time.

--

[Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen]

I can do line cuts with thermite or a torch pretty damn neat (minimal
slag) - ... but have access to a plasmacutter, and a large
reciprocating saw :)

- Rasmus Rydstrøm
(403) 890 8324

This message was sent from my mobile data device, apologies for typos
and brevity.

[Andrew Vliet]

got bacon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9dskxN10N0

2011/7/14 Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen <ras...@raztech.net>

[Craig Keough]

If you browse around kiji you can find mobile homes really cheap and sometimes free... just the cost of moving them... would make a suitable meeting/office space. use the seacans for work pods... project spaces... maybe rent some out low cost.

Example Free Double wide: http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-real-estate-houses-for-sale-Free-Double-Wide-Mobile-Home-W0QQAdIdZ285792288

[Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen]

Holy crap free homes??? :) rofl

- Rasmus Rydstrøm 

(403) 890 8324

This message was sent from my mobile data device, apologies for typos and brevity.

[Andrew Vliet]

Homes / space aren't really a problem as the above kijiji advert proves.  Land is the big issue.  Doesn't matter how many sea-cans or free double-wides you can get, if you have nowhere to put them, you're stuck.  

Line up the homes and see-cans, sure, but get /on/ the land, bylaw, and zoning issues tout de suite because they're what'll put a stop to the whole show.  

I can see a new-to-you mobile home being pulled into a lot somewhere in SE Calgary with a few tens of protospacers all giddy with cameras and cell phones a-buzz when a bylaw officer pulls in and says "Nuh uh uh - not here boyz, hit the road."  Would put an aweful cramp in someone's style in a real hurry. 

Besides, even if it doesn't come down to bylaws, you still need somewhere to put this stuff in a hurry when someone says, ~ "Hey, we've got a double-wide and 3 sea-cans that need to be moved by Friday.  Want them?"

my 2¢

2011/7/14 Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen <ras...@raztech.net>

[Gustin Johnson]

There was a show on TV based around freecycling. I can't remember
what it was called (it was also a little heavy on the drama for my
tastes). One thing they did that was interesting was create a board
room out of a seacan. The point is that this got me thinking that
Protospace might want to try and track down some warehouse space in
the near and short term. Something large enough that we can fit a
seacan inside of to work on. I love the idea of a modular but I
wonder if we should learn to walk before trying to run (this is just a
question, not a criticism). In other words we use the warehouse space
to bootstrap our end goal of a modular and transportable space.

Having said that, I personally tend to just jump into projects and
hopefully figure it out before I do too much damage. Either way I am
going to help where and when I can.

I am also interested in a trip to Red Deer. I drive a civic so I can
take 4 people, but really only 3 comfortably.

[Shawn Grover]

I really do like the SeaCan idea, and hope the financial numbers
(renovations/the land/etc.) work out. However, I'm going to put on my
"devil's advocate" hat for a moment.

I have to wonder if we *need* the space. Are we trying to get the space
to justify our existence? Or do we have a specific need for the space.
These needs/reasons have only be partially discussed and in some cases
just assumed. Other than a meeting space for ourselves, what other
purpose does Protospace have for physical space?

If it were a case of "we have the band saw, table saw, laser cutter,
CNC, or other equipment, and we want it collected under a single roof
for ease of access to members", that sort of thing demands the space.
Whereas at the moment, we don't have the equipment. Are we growing
prematurely simply because we feel we should?

Part of me thinks that if we can't specify a CURRENT need for the space
(not what the space would allow us to do), then we may be partaking in a
little mental masturbation and talking ourselves into something that
isn't quite right for the group.

On the otherhand, I really do like the passions and excitement that has
been breathed into the group. And I do think the SeaCan idea fits in
such an awesome way. But let's not commit ourselves until we can prove
the need and the capability to do it....

My thoughts.

>> 2011/7/14 Rasmus Rydstr�m-Poulsen<ras...@raztech.net>

>>>
>>> Holy crap free homes??? :) rofl
>>>

>>> - Rasmus Rydstr�m

[Craig Keough]

The whole concept of meetings don't appeal to me much, and I would guess there are plenty of others in the same boat. Space and equipment would be a draw for many more new members... If you don't have the space then you cannot fill it.

Having an MIT style Fab lab would be a big draw for membership.... and most of the equipment ie. CNC stuff can be fabricated from spare parts etc.

2011/7/14 Rasmus Rydstrøm-Poulsen<rasmus@raztech.net>

Holy crap free homes??? :) rofl

- Rasmus Rydstrøm

[Merovingian]

> I have to wonder if we *need* the space.  Are we trying to get the space
> to justify our existence?  Or do we have a specific need for the space.

That's an entirely different discussion. I think the premiss has
always been to have a physical space.

I know from experience that you need a proper space before you can buy
large tools. If we had a suitable space the tools will follow.

Agreed on not committing without the burden of proof. Please stayed
tuned ! As I've already mentioned, many (most) of the concerns voiced
in the forum here are known and not actually problems. We'll have a
solid plan very soon. Then we need to pull that plan apart and make
it better.

I have no doubt at all that the group has the technical skill to do
this. It's not conventional, but it isn't "hard".

The biggest issue by far will be land. That's where we need to sell
the idea for funding or something of that nature.

[codohundo]

I can only speak for me, but I suspect a lot of people feel the same
way, having a space is a deal breaker, if Protospace didn't get a
space then I'd want to join/start a group that did have one or had
getting one as a primary goal. Not to say that I'd leave Protospace
but there is a need for a more permanent home. As for land, I think
buying some could be a reallly long term goal, but I don't think we
should wait for that to happen, rather look for land we can lease or
beg.
Travis/Codohundo

[Shawn Grover]

On 11-07-14 01:37 PM, codohundo wrote:
> I can only speak for me, but I suspect a lot of people feel the same
> way, having a space is a deal breaker, if Protospace didn't get a
> space then I'd want to join/start a group that did have one or had
> getting one as a primary goal. Not to say that I'd leave Protospace

While I tend to agree, we still need to clearly define *why* we want the
space. What is the purpose of the space? Is it a
classroom/presentation facility? Is it a workshop? If so for
electronics, woodworking, metal working, etc.?

I agree we *need* a space or PS will likely die out. But I don't think
we've clearly defined what the space will be used for beyond meetings.
We've seen lots of "I'd like..." ideas, but the "requirements" for the
space are not defined yet. (from what I've seen on the list thus far.
I know the directors have different discussion threads on the go and
seem to be very active so they might have that list somewhere...)

[Merovingian]

That's a good point. It would be very helpful in deciding what we
might need and what the priority is. Obviously this can effect what
we may build and when, ect..

Given our limited budget, we want to put money and time where it will
do the most good and provide the best value.

[Tony Grimes]

I'm hoping or requirements will change with new blood that joins the community. 

I subscribe to the notion that planning is guessing. We can't know how this will all play out, so I think our best shot is to tackle this with three priorities:

1. Keep our options open in regards to a space. We should research sea-cans, commercial space, community centres, co-location, etc.
2. Grow the community. We can at least use the sea-can initiative to spark enough interest for a membership drive.
3. Fund raising. No matter what option we go with, it will cost money. I'd like to diversify our funding model beyond member dues.

If we stay nimble, keep informed and watch the money, we should be able to course correct along the way and land some place warm come winter.

Tony

[Valerie Roney]

As the logistics of making the seacan work, and where to put it are pretty seperate issues, I've started a thread on the location topic. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/calgary-hackspace/JhzpgOH88n4/discussion

Kath was going to put me in touch with Reid Henry from CADA spaces, Kath, can you do that via the thread above (or email me)? Just note, I'll be "off the grid" this weekend, so don't sweat it if I don't reply 'til Mon/Tuesday.

I still think this idea RAWKS! Huge number of hurdles, major challenge, but a very interesting one.

I think our best prospect is finding a wharehouse to work on this over the winter. Build proof of concept while not having to sweat occupancy red tape on vacant land, plus the publicity of actually MAKING it might put us in touch with somebody who wants to put us up.

We can do any public events, big gatherings at places like Endeavor while we work on our totally hacked hackerspace.

[Benjamin Reed]

Before we get too ahead of ourselves contacting city officials, media,
investors, etc, we should solidify our game plan. Bringing this idea
to many of the right people at the wrong time will kill the project
before it has a chance to get off the ground.

This is a business plan, one that has high risk and high benefit, thus
I'd suggest that we get everyone on the same page prior to
manipulating our personal or professional connections.

I am loving the chaotic enthusiasm in this thread, but we must channel
this energy into organized efforts. This will be done through the
Wiki, meetings, and committees in the near future.

Keep brainstorming for now, but try to avoid contacting authority
figures unless it's purely for research purposes :)

On Jul 14, 5:16 pm, Valerie Roney <rumigrou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As the logistics of making the seacan work, and where to put it are pretty

> seperate issues, I've started a thread on the location topic.https://groups.google.com/d/topic/calgary-hackspace/JhzpgOH88n4/discu...

[weetabix]

Absolutely 100% behind that. We must operate as a cohesive unit on this, and not plant any seeds too early, as it were.

We must be ready to act, but we need another round of planning just to plan out plans... ( I can't believe I just said that.) We must hack as a team.

---

From: Benjamin Reed
Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2011 1:3 AM
To: Calgary Hackspace
Subject: [Calgary-Hackspace] Re: SeaCan (Shipping Container) Hackerspace
Before we get too ahead of ourselves contacting city officials, media, investors, etc, we should solidify our game plan. Bringing this idea to many of the right people at the wrong time will kill the project before it has a chance to get off the ground. This is a business plan, one that has high risk and high benefit, thus I'd suggest that we get everyone on the same page prior to manipulating our personal or professional connections. I am loving the chaotic enthusiasm in this thread, but we must channel this energy into organized efforts. This will be done through the Wiki, meetings, and committees in the near future. Keep brainstorming for now, but try to avoid contacting authority figures unless it's purely for research purposes :) On Jul 14, 5:16 pm, Valerie Roney wrote: > As the logistics of making the seacan work, and where to put it are pretty > seperate issues, I've started a thread on the location topic.https://groups.google.com/d/topic/calgary-hackspace/JhzpgOH88n4/discu... > > Kath was going to put me in touch with Reid Henry from CADA spaces, Kath, > can you do that via the thread above (or email me)? Just note, I'll be "off > the grid" this weekend, so don't sweat it if I don't reply 'til Mon/Tuesday. > > I still think this idea RAWKS! Huge number of hurdles, major challenge, but > a very interesting one. > > I think our best prospect is finding a wharehouse to work on this over the > winter. Build proof of concept while not having to sweat occupancy red tape > on vacant land, plus the publicity of actually MAKING it might put us in > touch with somebody who wants to put us up. > > We can do any public events, big gatherings at places like Endeavor while we > work on our totally hacked hackerspace. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Calgary Hackspace" group. For list options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/calgary-hackspace

[Thomas LaFreniere]

Even though I'm away for a year and likely won't have too much involvement in this I just couldn't resist to throw in.

I think this idea is absolutely brilliant!

I looked for seacans in Calgary, they are extremely available.

There are ready made office units as well as refrigerated units that do anywhere from -20C to +20C (so cooled or heated already insulated).

They are selling on kijiji for as low as 3400$ that I saw. Here are some inspiring links:

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-other-CALGARY-CONTAINERS-STORAGE-SHIPPING-CONTAINERS-SEACANS-W0QQAdIdZ186490462

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-other-45-FEET-STORAGE-SEA-CONTAINER-W0QQAdIdZ295976066

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-equipment-40-ft-Sea-Can-Storage-Container-w-3-side-doors-W0QQAdIdZ289742420

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-other-New-Shipping-Containers-Sea-Container-Sea-Can-W0QQAdIdZ259171839

This thing is just awesome: http://www.seabox.com/catdl/sb3/SB38920_3S1/SB3892.0.3S1.pdf

Also, keep in mind, they are shipping containers.. we could think about buying one from outside of Calgary or the US or even overseas and have it shipped to Calgary (as in the container might be like 1000$ and only like 1000$ to ship it, hell maybe we could make a deal with someone to actually have cargo in it and make some money and/or save $?)

At this point, I'd say the only real challenge is finding a place to put these things. Would seem worth inquiring with the city with a purposal. Maybe they'd lend out some land for free because of the cool idea.

http://www.big4can.com/ this place paints the cans too. How sweet would it be to have the cans with the Protospace logo on em? or each "room"/can with a different one of Ben's robot designs on them.

Either way, the sea can idea is exactly Protospace. Totally enforces what the name says too, the space would be so much more literally proto ;)

Ps. have we thought about squatting? Monthly "rent" would just be frequent shipping cost to move the container..

- Thomas

[Valerie Roney]

Okay cool! And I agree our public profile on this is important - for or against us.

I'd like to scout out a bit of what's availible, what our options are, but I'll keep it casual. I think we can safely pick the brains of the people at CADA - they're here to support innovative stuff, guide through the beurocracy i.e. help keep us out of trouble.

Secondly, this seacan thing may take a while to get to the point of us actually being IN it. We may need a more long term temp space over the winter while we build the thing. I'd like for us to be scouting out options there too. Finding a commercial lease space won't likely fit the bill, but some kind of sub-let or shared space with another business/arts group will be more likely. We need time to put the word out, see what crops up. I still think access to a warehouse we could work in, test out the seacan would be ideal - we should be hunting for that.

Everybody cool with that, or do you want me to ixnay on the lease hunt entirely right now?

Can you guys give me a rough timeline of when you would have a solid outline of the seacan plan? Sometime in the next few weeks?

[Valerie Roney]

I passed on this idea to my Dad, who spent his retirement as an RV tech - so he's well versed in all issues portable, plus he's where I learned all my hacking from so he'd just think it was cool.

anyway he had a good suggestion about building units around a central core you guys might want to consider here's his email:

Hi Valerie,
Interesting concept  with a lot of potential and potential problems.  One major issue would be water supply/waste disposal.  Other than that it is all possible if you can find a location where you won't have to fight every inch of the way for approval.

My first inclination would be to build it like a school with portables.  A core unit with all the services and linked to attached units that are supplied with services from central core.  I think I would look at designing attached passageways between units rather than trying to fit them tightly together- simpler with less modification to units.

I think there is a someone up near Gull Lake working with these units,  I'm sure we drove by it.  Would be interesting to talk to them.  They were stacked more than one high but they are likely on a farm where approvals are less of an issue.

Free thoughts so you are sure to get full value.

Dad

[Travis Alexander]

I think having a space in the mean time would prove very useful,
especially while we struggle to build up the required infrastructure,
portable power
portable sanitation
portable internet

then if this sea can project goes like we hope, maybe we end up
keeping the cans and the space?

[Thomas LaFreniere]

I think getting a space before doing SeaCans is likely to kill the momentum behind such a project. That being said, it would be worth considering the feasibility of the SeaCan Hackerspace before making a call.

I would seriously consider looking at getting an office space style SeaCan as the first one to use as the "core". That way it'd already be fitted for all the essentials to survive the winter/etc.

Of course there is the issue with finding a lot.

I'm not suggesting people should stop looking at a standard lease-able space but if Protospace is serious about the SeaCan Hackerspace then I think you'll need to go full on.

1. Find a lot

2. Find a ready made office/"livable" SeaCan

3. Sort out shipping

4. ???

5. Hack

cents += 2;

- Thomas

[Kan .]

We should probably start creating a list of questions for the guys going to red deer this weekend to ask them about their planning/building process

Not sure my self on what to ask at the moment but probably something along the lines of permits, blue print work, getting them signed off, issues with the city, what is their land zoning, did they try to build elsewhere that isnt possibly zoned Agricultural use (or whatever it is zoned for) where they can probably get away with looser restrictions on building. those sorts of questions, stuff that will probably be very important in the planning process for us.

Also who all is going and is there room for others if anyone else wants to go along (for those who were not at the meeting).

[Benjamin Reed]

and regardless of the information you find in your research, everyone
has the option to dump their research onto the wiki.

>> http://wiki.protospace.ca/index.php/SeaCan_Project

We will soon have a proper project management tool to set budgets,
deadlines, assign tasks, etc. With a PM tool, we will stop talkin
smack and produce some momentum!

On Jul 20, 9:10 am, "Kan ." <k...@uddf.net> wrote:
> We should probably start creating a list of questions for the guys going to
> red deer this weekend to ask them about their planning/building process
>
> Not sure my self on what to ask at the moment but probably something along
> the lines of permits, blue print work, getting them signed off, issues with
> the city, what is their land zoning, did they try to build elsewhere that
> isnt possibly zoned Agricultural use (or whatever it is zoned for) where
> they can probably get away with looser restrictions on building. those sorts
> of questions, stuff that will probably be very important in the planning
> process for us.
>
> Also who all is going and is there room for others if anyone else wants to
> go along (for those who were not at the meeting).
>

> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Thomas LaFreniere <puppet...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think getting a space before doing SeaCans is likely to kill the momentum
> > behind such a project. That being said, it would be worth considering
> > the feasibility of the SeaCan Hackerspace before making a call.
>
> > I would seriously consider looking at getting an office space style SeaCan
> > as the first one to use as the "core". That way it'd already be fitted for
> > all the essentials to survive the winter/etc.
>
> > Of course there is the issue with finding a lot.
>
> > I'm not suggesting people should stop looking at a standard lease-able
> > space but if Protospace is serious about the SeaCan Hackerspace then I think
> > you'll need to go full on.
>
> > 1. Find a lot
> > 2. Find a ready made office/"livable" SeaCan
> > 3. Sort out shipping
> > 4. ???
> > 5. Hack
>
> > cents += 2;
>
> > - Thomas
>

> > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Travis Alexander <codohu...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> I think having a space in the mean time would prove very useful,
> >> especially while we struggle to build up the required infrastructure,
> >>   portable power
> >>   portable sanitation
> >>   portable internet
>
> >> then if this sea can project goes like we hope, maybe we end up
> >> keeping the cans and the space?
>

> >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Valerie Roney <rumigrou...@gmail.com>