1. Rewrite ACL (parts of Auth) documentation from scratch.

2. Keep what's there and update it.

-- John

I think I'd say somewhere in the middle. I think much of the Lord of
the Rings intro is okay but maybe a little verbose and not directly
applicable to anybody's project. Using an example like a standard
User/Group permission system would be easier to understand.

I like the way the section is ultimately structured but it needs more
examples, especially in the context of how they are used with
controllers and actions. They should especially be examples that could
almost be copy-pasted into a project.

-Jonathan

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:15 PM, John David Anderson

I agree that there are some good things in the acl/ auth section, but
it is the area that so many people crash in,  sometimes I think there
almost needs to be a wrapper for them that makes it easier to get
started with, but then the inevitable complaints about constricting
the application....

I think some looking at making it more concrete around some real uses.
  Maybe even tieing into the bakery code since it is open and on the
forge....

I think part of the issue is that it is not an easy thing to do in any
way. The whole set of mental models that people have around
Authentication and authorization (and acl as a frame for that) just
gets people all tied up in knots

Sam D
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Snook

I think the best thing to do in the cookbook is improve a better way to
create and update translations.

Nowadays, when a English version is modified the translated version show up
a information of that.
But, does not exist a report where shows this information. Only in the
article, I think.
So, create a report is the thing to do. Showing information about
translates, like Zend: http://framework.zend.com/manual/status

This will help us, that speak other language, to translate the manual.

Regards,

--
Renan Gonçalves - Software Engineer
Cell Phone: +55 11 8633 6018
MSN: renan.sad...@gmail.com
São Paulo - SP/Brazil

The problem with the ACL documentation is that it isn't explicity said
that there are different and distinct modes to run the Auth component
in when paired with ACL. If you read all the tutorials they all go
over different modes and you eventually figure out that each technique
is different... and then you eventually figure out that you don't need
to use any of the built-in modes at all and can check on completely
custom ACO/ARO trees.

So in my experience there are two hurdles to understanding ACL in
CakePHP. The first is understanding ACL as a concept. The next being
defining and explaining the different built-in ACL implementations
provided by Auth.

Since there is so much confusion surrounding ACL and Auth in Cake,
perhaps it would be best to just start with a clean slate.

On Jul 1, 1:15 pm, John David Anderson <anderson.jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Jonathan Snook <jonathan.sn...@gmail.com>
wrote:

A big yes to this point - there has to be a near copy-paste example and then
it should elaborate on various modes

Tarique

--
=============================================================
Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org
PHP for E-Biz: http://sanisoft.com
=============================================================

What confuses me the most is the lack of description for each of the
Acl usage modes. I have no idea how they differ, when to use them and
why. I think this is the biggest flaw of Acl docs.

On Jul 1, 7:15 pm, John David Anderson <anderson.jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

In general, not just ACL, I feel examples and tutorials should lean
more towards 'real' database access and less towards SQL. We all know
(or should know)  how to create and manipulate records through SQL,
but we're there to learn how to do things through Cake / PHP so
examples using Cake are more pertinent. Nobody is going to administer
a website via the MySql console.

I've just looked at the ACL section and it appears to have been
changed in the last day or two. No SQL, and code that works.

Regarding the comment by Renan Gonçalves, the key to translatable text
is to get it right in its original language first. I've done a lot of
translation and it's always the pseudo intellectual stuff (lots of
inappropriate big words and weird grammar) and flowery colloquial
stuff that causes problems.

I agree with Jonathan!

The "Lord of the rings" Example shows us how powerful ACL in cake can
be, and helped me a lot to get in touch with ACL.

But (for me) it is far away from a real users project.
Perhaps an example of controlling rights of a whole communitiy login
with diffrent roles could be useful to understand ACL/Auth !

On Jul 2, 10:31 am, leo <ponton....@gmail.com> wrote:

for me it would be a 2 or 3 role system, something like:

Super User
- Admins
- - Users

this is the most typical setup I have, for things like shops, or to
sites that require a CMS and registration to access certain parts of
the site. I would like to grant permission to all admin functions,
maybe in one step (is that possible?), to admins, and then fine tune
the other checks.

It would also be helpful to see how to handle the 'owner' records type
thing, such as a users comment or order.

cheers,

j

--

jon bennett
w: http://www.jben.net/
iChat (AIM): jbendotnet Skype: jon-bennett

So that's where that came from. The "Lord of the rings" references
just confused me even more because I'm not familiar with it. You
should at least mention that's where it came from. I just thought the
person who wrote it was on something. I guess it would be very helpful
if you're familiar with that book/movie/video game/whatever, but
consider it for those who are not.

A simple common practice example would help reduce the questions on
this group considerably. Maybe even publishing it as a live demo with
source would be helpful.

On Jul 3, 2008, at 4:38 PM, NOSLOW wrote:

Well, you're not too far off in thinking that... :)

FYI, I just finished rewriting the whole section:

http://book.cakephp.org/view/171/access-control-lists

(complete with a more concrete reference to LoTR)

I'm sure it needs a little more love, but hopefully it's better than  
it used to be. Feel free to dive in and fix my typos.

You don't have to know anything about fantasy novels to follow the  
examples.

I've made the examples more realistic, but kept them in the realm of  
demonstration. I usually don't like to
supply a lot of source. The point of the manual is to teach people how  
to understand and use the system,
not copy and paste. It's a fine line to walk, but I think it's an  
important decision.

Next on the list, the ACL console application, ACL + Auth, and the  
AclBehavior..... any takers? :)

-- John

You think that's bad. I don't know if it's still the case (it is, I
just checked http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/806-7612/6jgfmsvpd?a=view
), but Sun Microsystems' example username was spanky:

    "Type the login name given to you by the system administrator and
press the Return key. For example, if your login name is spanky,
type:"

If my system administrator gave me a name like that, I'd keep well
away.