Let the projects begin...

[NextBoat]

We (my wife and I) have joined the "club"... We recently purchased
the '87 CR38 that was in Hilton Head. Your group was kind enough to
field a few questions as we started down this path, I'm sure the
number of questions will take a sharp uptick once we get passed the
initial big projects.
Chain plates and rigging are up first & we're knee deep in those
already- if anyone has their own questions along those lines, feel
free to chase us down. I must say the interior looks much nicer
installed than once you dismantle things for chainplate access.
Steve and Rachel

[Mickey Panayiotakis]

Congratulations, Steve and Rachel!

Send us pictures :)

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[Cab...@aol.com]

I have a rule with my boat. I call it the 30 minute rule. No matter what the project, if it is during sailing season, the boat has to be ready for the "let's go sailing checklist" within 30 minutes. Don't get so tied up in projects that the boat can't be sailed on Saturdays.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

[NextBoat]

We had a similar rule on the previous old boat, but chainplates and
wire- known issues going into the purchase- require an allowance for
special circumstance.
Hope to resume the sailing on short notice routine in a few weeks.
Thanks!

On Jun 1, 4:34 pm, Cab...@aol.com wrote:
> I have a rule with my boat. I call it the 30 minute rule. No matter what
> the project, if it is during sailing season, the boat has to be ready for the
>  "let's go sailing checklist" within 30 minutes. Don't get so tied up in
> projects that the boat can't be sailed on Saturdays.
>
> Breck Caine  CR 38 #19
>
> In a message dated 6/1/2012 4:24:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>

> svba...@gmail.com writes:
>
> Congratulations,  Steve and Rachel!
> Send us  pictures :)
>

> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:22 PM, NextBoat <_satirelou...@gmail.com_

>
> (mailto:satirelou...@gmail.com) > wrote:
>
> We (my wife and I) have joined the "club"...  We  recently purchased
> the '87 CR38 that was in Hilton Head. Your group was  kind enough to
> field a few questions as we started down this path, I'm  sure the
> number of questions will take a sharp uptick once we get passed  the
> initial big projects.
> Chain plates and rigging are up first &  we're knee deep in those
> already- if anyone has their own questions along  those lines, feel
> free to chase us down. I must say the interior looks  much nicer
> installed than once you dismantle things for chainplate  access.
> Steve and Rachel
>
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[Cab...@aol.com]

"Rigging Only" is a good source for rigging and information (nice to talk to). My boat was under rigged at the fore and back stay and the upper shrouds. In the old days (1979) the mast, boom and rigging was done by other parties. They used one size wire for everything. Have fun.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

[Larry Barker]

Congrats
Larry
Venteux

Sent from my iPhone

[Tom Fuhs]

Congratulations Steve and Rachel!   Where will you be keeping your new boat?  Ours is a 1987 model as well.  I'll be really interested to follow your progress with the rigging and chain plates as that task is in our future as well.  Which cabin layout is yours?

 

Tom Fuhs

SV Eclipse

CR 38  #115

Rock Hall, MD

[SM]

I believe we have what's called the plan B layout. We're currently in Charleston working with a rigger and machine shop to do the plates. Hope to tackle the wire in Charleston as well. We'll then take her back to Hilton Head for several more months of sailing and projects. Don't have a clear picture beyond Nov/Dec... Poco a poco.

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[Larry Barker]

Steve,

Are u doing the chain plates as a precaution or did they find an issue during the survey?

Larry

Venteux

Sent from my iPhone

[SM]

Our inspection identified one with a hairline crack at the top bolt. As there was a bit of dock rash on the gelcoat along with it, we suspected/assumed we knew the cause. The surveyor took issue with an additional 2 plates and so we just priced in all new plates with the offer. Of course, that project has already been adjusted to overrun the preliminary estimate and closing credit, but that's the MO of boat ownership eh?
The plates themselves aren't a terrible expense. And once I dismantled the beautiful interior, it seemed best to just have the rest fabricated as well. I do not wish to take apart nor put back together that puzzle again. 

Steve

[Tom Fuhs]

Eclipse is also a plan B. What did you need to dismantle to gain access to the chain plates?  I thought I had noticed some covers in the cabinets where the chainplates would be.  I "assumed" I could just remove these covers and get to the backs of chain plate bolts.  Perhaps I'm too optimistic? 

Tom Fuhs
S/V Eclipse
CR 38 #115
Rock Hall, MD.

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[SM]

Hi Tom, 

Those inspection plates are just a window to the two lower bolts. Access up through the bulkhead requires removal of a bit more than those ports. On port we basically took out everything. On starboard, we pulled the top half of the teak planking and the "shelf" ... Small picture to follow...

Steve

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[Tom Fuhs]

Ahh, I see now I was entirely too optimistic.  I'm guessing you'll also be replacing or at least re-bedding the backing plates for the chain plates.  Are they stainless as well?  On the port side, when you say "took out everything", I'm guessing you mean the sliding door locker behind/above the settee.  Was there no way to remove just the trim around the inside top of the locker to allow removal of the fiberglass inside top.  That was how I thought I would gain access.  Now you have me thinking...  Thanks for the heads up and any information I can use going into this.  We're planning this project for next winter.   I'm anxious to see how everything goes back together for you.  Good luck!

 

Tom 

[LDCB...@aol.com]

Tom,

Again I ask is there a real reason you plan to redo the chain plates.? Was something found to be wrong during the survey? Otherwise I would hesitate to replace them unless you found an issue.

Larry Barker

Venteux

 

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[Tom Fuhs]

Larry,  No, there has not been anything specific found to be wrong.  I've just read of many horror stories of chain plates failing and always at the most inopportune moments.  If there has been moisture trapped behind a chainplate or around where it goes through the toe-rail, crevice corrosion is inevitable.  So many stories of chainplates that looked fine where visible, but rotted on unseen surfaces.    I just figured that as we're replacing the standing rigging (it's 25 years old and definitly due) it would be a good time to at least check the backs and rebed them.  We are planning on some blue water trips, so I weigh that in.  Do you have reason to believe the plates on our CR 38's are more immune?  That would be welcome news as I really don't relish dismantling any of our cabin.  If I do have to take things apart,  I thought it would be a good time to rebed the stantions as well.  Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

  -Tom Fuhs

 

Eclipse    CR38 #115

[Larry Barker]

Tom

Just thought u might want to make sure there is really an issue by testing one or two. However, there are those more versed than I on the need to replace them. Just think in most cases without checking them first it might be more than necessary.

Larry

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[alangluyas]

Hi All

 

Getting cool down here in Tassie - at least we don't get our water freezing up though! I have seen Mickeys photos!

 

I would take off one chain plate for an inspection if it was relatively simple to get at but I would not panic otherwise. If there is a corrosion problem with stainless steel there will be evidence of "corrosion products", ie, rust, either inside the hull or outside. So called "stainless steel" does not appear to corrode because the chromium in it forms a very tough and tenacious oxide layer when it is in contact with oxygen. When you deprive it of oxygen and expose it to chlorides and water, it rusts every bit as fast as mild steel and it makes the same volume of rust. From memory, every 1mm of steel will produce about 10mm of rust. So, your stainless steel chain plates are not going to vaporise away un-noticed. If you have rusty brown stains coming from below and bubbling at the edges, then you have problems. If they are dry and tight, then I would not worry a lot.

 

Brite Star is also 25 years plus (1984 build) and I would probably take the chain plates off and rebed them if I had another reason to strip out the interior. I won't do it just for the sake of it.

 

That does not let you off doing crack inspections and anyone who is inteterested can buy a "dye check" kit for a few dollars. You clean the metal up, spray on a dye penetrant, wipe it off and then spray on a porous white paint-like coating that will suck the dye back out of the cracks and show them very clearly as red stains on the white coating. These are very useful on chain plates, rigging screws and swages. Just be careful with the red dye - if it gets out of control it takes alot of cleaning up!

 

Cheers

 

Alan

 

Brite Star

CR38 #82

Kettering Tasmania

---

From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Barker
Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 11:02 AM
To: cabo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [caborico] Re: Let the projects begin...

[David Cameron]

Thanks for the dye check,one question as the back of the chain plates are not exposed will checking the fromts expose anything going on in the back?

I,too wish to remove the chain plates for inspection,however if dye will tell the tale I'll dye it.

Dave 52

[Cab...@aol.com]

You can check the swaged fittings, on the boat, but you have to remove the chain plates to check them, if they were to fail it would be where they are covered with sealant or the bolts. As a note, the only time I have heard of CR chain plate failure is the ones that had a spacer welded to the top and I think they failed at the horizontal weld. If you do remove them use new 316 bolts. 

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

[David Cameron]

Beck is any particular year the spacers were welded to?

[Tom Fuhs]

Breck,  That's what I figured.  The outside of the chainplates will (almost) always look shiny and clean.  It's what you can't see that'll bite you.  Re the spacer:  Mine are double thickness at the top of the plate, where the toggle for the shroud attaches.   The rest of the chainplate is single thickness or about 1/4' thick.  Is that double thickness the spacer you mention?

Tom

On Tuesday, June 5, 2012 6:02:35 PM UTC-4, Breck wrote:

You can check the swaged fittings, on the boat, but you have to remove the chain plates to check them, if they were to fail it would be where they are covered with sealant or the bolts. As a note, the only time I have heard of CR chain plate failure is the ones that had a spacer welded to the top and I think they failed at the horizontal weld. If you do remove them use new 316 bolts. 

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 6/5/2012 11:43:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tc...@aol.com writes:

Thanks for the dye check,one question as the back of the chain plates are not exposed will checking the fromts expose anything going on in the back?

I,too wish to remove the chain plates for inspection,however if dye will tell the tale I'll dye it.

Dave 52

-----Original Message-----
From: 'alangluyas' <alang...@iinet.net.au>
To: caborico <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:15 am
Subject: RE: [caborico] Re: Let the projects begin...

Hi All

 

Getting cool down here in Tassie - at least we don't get our water freezing up though! I have seen Mickeys photos!

 

I would take off one chain plate for an inspection if it was relatively simple to get at but I would not panic otherwise. If there is a corrosion problem with stainless steel there will be evidence of "corrosion products", ie, rust, either inside the hull or outside. So called "stainless steel" does not appear to corrode because the chromium in it forms a very tough and tenacious oxide layer when it is in contact with oxygen. When you deprive it of oxygen and expose it to chlorides and water, it rusts every bit as fast as mild steel and it makes the same volume of rust. From memory, every 1mm of steel will produce about 10mm of rust. So, your stainless steel chain plates are not going to vaporise away un-noticed. If you have rusty brown stains coming from below and bubbling at the edges, then you have problems. If they are dry and tight, then I would not worry a lot.

 

Brite Star is also 25 years plus (1984 build) and I would probably take the chain plates off and rebed them if I had another reason to strip out the interior. I won't do it just for the sake of it.

 

That does not let you off doing crack inspections and anyone who is inteterested can buy a "dye check" kit for a few dollars. You clean the metal up, spray on a dye penetrant, wipe it off and then spray on a porous white paint-like coating that will suck the dye back out of the cracks and show them very clearly as red stains on the white coating. These are very useful on chain plates, rigging screws and swages. Just be careful with the red dye - if it gets out of control it takes alot of cleaning up!

 

Cheers

 

Alan

 

Brite Star

CR38 #82

Kettering Tasmania

---

From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:caborico@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Barker

[Cab...@aol.com]

Not sure but it was only for a year or two. Again this is info I got from our group over time, so it may not be correct. If you look at where your shrouds are attached to the chain plate there is a gap that a line can get caught in. I think they were trying to fill the gap. If your chain plates are made that way you could tell by looking. Also if there is no horizontal weld there would be no problem.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 6/5/2012 6:11:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tc...@aol.com writes:

Beck is any particular year the spacers were welded to?

Dave 52

-----Original Message-----
From: Cabo79 <Cab...@aol.com>
To: caborico <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [caborico] Re: Let the projects begin...

You can check the swaged fittings, on the boat, but you have to remove the chain plates to check them, if they were to fail it would be where they are covered with sealant or the bolts. As a note, the only time I have heard of CR chain plate failure is the ones that had a spacer welded to the top and I think they failed at the horizontal weld. If you do remove them use new 316 bolts. 

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 6/5/2012 11:43:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tc...@aol.com writes:

Thanks for the dye check,one question as the back of the chain plates are not exposed will checking the fromts expose anything going on in the back?

I,too wish to remove the chain plates for inspection,however if dye will tell the tale I'll dye it.

Dave 52

-----Original Message-----
From: 'alangluyas' <alang...@iinet.net.au>
To: caborico <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:15 am
Subject: RE: [caborico] Re: Let the projects begin...

Hi All

 

Getting cool down here in Tassie - at least we don't get our water freezing up though! I have seen Mickeys photos!

 

I would take off one chain plate for an inspection if it was relatively simple to get at but I would not panic otherwise. If there is a corrosion problem with stainless steel there will be evidence of "corrosion products", ie, rust, either inside the hull or outside. So called "stainless steel" does not appear to corrode because the chromium in it forms a very tough and tenacious oxide layer when it is in contact with oxygen. When you deprive it of oxygen and expose it to chlorides and water, it rusts every bit as fast as mild steel and it makes the same volume of rust. From memory, every 1mm of steel will produce about 10mm of rust. So, your stainless steel chain plates are not going to vaporise away un-noticed. If you have rusty brown stains coming from below and bubbling at the edges, then you have problems. If they are dry and tight, then I would not worry a lot.

 

Brite Star is also 25 years plus (1984 build) and I would probably take the chain plates off and rebed them if I had another reason to strip out the interior. I won't do it just for the sake of it.

 

That does not let you off doing crack inspections and anyone who is inteterested can buy a "dye check" kit for a few dollars. You clean the metal up, spray on a dye penetrant, wipe it off and then spray on a porous white paint-like coating that will suck the dye back out of the cracks and show them very clearly as red stains on the white coating. These are very useful on chain plates, rigging screws and swages. Just be careful with the red dye - if it gets out of control it takes alot of cleaning up!

 

Cheers

 

Alan

 

Brite Star

CR38 #82

Kettering Tasmania

---

From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Barker

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[Cab...@aol.com]

Yes, the double thickness is the spacer. If you have a weld on the bottom of the spacer that runs horizontal between the spacer and the chain plate I would be inclined to replace them. Use a piece of plastic as a spacer if you wish. I use a piece of line as a spacer.

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 6/5/2012 7:18:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tom...@verizon.net writes:

Breck,  That's what I figured.  The outside of the chain plates will (almost) always look shiny and clean.  It's what you can't see that'll bite you.  Re the spacer:  Mine are double thickness at the top of the plate, where the toggle for the shroud attaches.   The rest of the chain plate is single thickness or about 1/4' thick.  Is that double thickness the spacer you mention?

Tom

On Tuesday, June 5, 2012 6:02:35 PM UTC-4, Breck wrote:

You can check the swaged fittings, on the boat, but you have to remove the chain plates to check them, if they were to fail it would be where they are covered with sealant or the bolts. As a note, the only time I have heard of CR chain plate failure is the ones that had a spacer welded to the top and I think they failed at the horizontal weld. If you do remove them use new 316 bolts. 

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19

 

In a message dated 6/5/2012 11:43:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tc...@aol.com writes:

Thanks for the dye check,one question as the back of the chain plates are not exposed will checking the fromts expose anything going on in the back?

I,too wish to remove the chain plates for inspection,however if dye will tell the tale I'll dye it.

Dave 52

-----Original Message-----
From: 'alangluyas' <alang...@iinet.net.au>
To: caborico <cabo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:15 am
Subject: RE: [caborico] Re: Let the projects begin...

Hi All

 

Getting cool down here in Tassie - at least we don't get our water freezing up though! I have seen Mickeys photos!

 

I would take off one chain plate for an inspection if it was relatively simple to get at but I would not panic otherwise. If there is a corrosion problem with stainless steel there will be evidence of "corrosion products", ie, rust, either inside the hull or outside. So called "stainless steel" does not appear to corrode because the chromium in it forms a very tough and tenacious oxide layer when it is in contact with oxygen. When you deprive it of oxygen and expose it to chlorides and water, it rusts every bit as fast as mild steel and it makes the same volume of rust. From memory, every 1mm of steel will produce about 10mm of rust. So, your stainless steel chain plates are not going to vaporise away un-noticed. If you have rusty brown stains coming from below and bubbling at the edges, then you have problems. If they are dry and tight, then I would not worry a lot.

 

Brite Star is also 25 years plus (1984 build) and I would probably take the chain plates off and rebed them if I had another reason to strip out the interior. I won't do it just for the sake of it.

 

That does not let you off doing crack inspections and anyone who is inteterested can buy a "dye check" kit for a few dollars. You clean the metal up, spray on a dye penetrant, wipe it off and then spray on a porous white paint-like coating that will suck the dye back out of the cracks and show them very clearly as red stains on the white coating. These are very useful on chain plates, rigging screws and swages. Just be careful with the red dye - if it gets out of control it takes alot of cleaning up!

 

Cheers

 

Alan

 

Brite Star

CR38 #82

Kettering Tasmania

---

From: cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:caborico@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Barker

Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 11:02 AM
To: cabo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [caborico] Re: Let the projects begin...

[David Cameron]

Thanks,Looks as thought I,have the Good ones.

[Cab...@aol.com]

OK

 

Breck Caine CR 38 #19