Paint topsides
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David Cameron Miss Molly
May 8, 2012, 8:31:31 AM5/8/12
to caborico
I,recall reading some where that some Cabo's were painted with Allgrip
from the factory,Was I,mistaken?.I,am in the mist of prepping the
topsides and what I,am sanding does not look like gelcoat.
Thanks Guy's
Dave 52
from the factory,Was I,mistaken?.I,am in the mist of prepping the
topsides and what I,am sanding does not look like gelcoat.
Thanks Guy's
Dave 52
Alan Gluyas
May 8, 2012, 9:00:50 PM5/8/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Hi Dave
No, the hulls are just gelcoat finished with a relatively thick layer of
gelcoat (maybe 20 to 40 mls) or in laymans terms about 1/32th of an inch.
Any boats finished in polyurethane (awlgrip is just a urethane paint) would
have been painted after market.
Urethane finishes are very hard and shiny but they don't have any thickness
- it is the thinnest of all coatings - and if you scratch the finish you
will go right through it back to the substrate. Shallow scratches in
gelcoat, being relatively thick, can be sanded out and polished back to the
original finish.
My recommendation is that a well built glass hull should be polished until
the gelcoat wears through or becomes thion and dead and only painted after
that.
Cheers
Al
Brite Star
CR 38 #82
Kettering Tasmania
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No, the hulls are just gelcoat finished with a relatively thick layer of
gelcoat (maybe 20 to 40 mls) or in laymans terms about 1/32th of an inch.
Any boats finished in polyurethane (awlgrip is just a urethane paint) would
have been painted after market.
Urethane finishes are very hard and shiny but they don't have any thickness
- it is the thinnest of all coatings - and if you scratch the finish you
will go right through it back to the substrate. Shallow scratches in
gelcoat, being relatively thick, can be sanded out and polished back to the
original finish.
My recommendation is that a well built glass hull should be polished until
the gelcoat wears through or becomes thion and dead and only painted after
that.
Cheers
Al
Brite Star
CR 38 #82
Kettering Tasmania
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thierr...@earthlink.net
May 8, 2012, 9:15:17 PM5/8/12
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Cabo Rico did paint hulls at the factory if an owner wanted another hull color than white.
Thierry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
Thierry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
David Cameron
May 8, 2012, 9:34:18 PM5/8/12
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That could explain my hull as it also has a surface that does not look like Gel.Did tehy paint top sides also?
Thanmks fo the Help
David Cameron Miss Molly
May 8, 2012, 9:40:09 PM5/8/12
to caborico
Thanks <i,totaly aggeree My last boat I,had for 22 years you could
still buff up the hull to near new shine with patience.My new to me
Cabo must have been painted at some point I'l try the lift off test
with cotton balls and solvent.
Thanks for the Help Dave 52
On May 8, 9:15 pm, "thierry.d...@earthlink.net"
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/caborico?hl=en.
still buff up the hull to near new shine with patience.My new to me
Cabo must have been painted at some point I'l try the lift off test
with cotton balls and solvent.
Thanks for the Help Dave 52
On May 8, 9:15 pm, "thierry.d...@earthlink.net"
Charlie Purdum
May 8, 2012, 9:46:52 PM5/8/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com, cabo...@googlegroups.com
Ours as well, looks like rolled on non-skid vs. molded. Previous owner had a low-skill marina try to color-match beige nonskid to touch up gouges. We're now looking at applying awlgrip to all topsides (but don't like the awlgrip sand texture nonskid), kiwigrip nonskid and even
Nuteak decks.
David Cameron Miss Molly
May 8, 2012, 9:55:41 PM5/8/12
to caborico
Any suggestions?I,am in the process of painting my entire boat,I,have
srtripped the topside and am fretting about what to paint with,I,was
going Allgrip what is the Non skid made of?I,see its the salt shaker
type.I,had luck years ago with Gel Coat applying thicken Gel and
textureing it as non skid.Was the original non skid Molded?If so who
knows what I,have.
Thanks for the help Dave 52
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/caborico?hl=en.
srtripped the topside and am fretting about what to paint with,I,was
going Allgrip what is the Non skid made of?I,see its the salt shaker
type.I,had luck years ago with Gel Coat applying thicken Gel and
textureing it as non skid.Was the original non skid Molded?If so who
knows what I,have.
Thanks for the help Dave 52
>
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Alan Gluyas
May 8, 2012, 10:01:11 PM5/8/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
I did not know that Cabo Rico had supplied any non white hulls - my
apologies.
If the hull has been painted with a polyurethane paint, you will not be able
to affect the paint with solvent. There is no solvent that will soften
polyurethane without dissolving the polyester resin underneath it. In the
old days when we less concerned about toxic chemicals and the environment,
paint strippers were based on methylene chloride, which is very potent stuff
but even this has a very limited effect on urethane coatings.
If it has been painted with an acrylic or an alkyd (enamel) or any other one
pack paint, then it should be able to be softened.
apologies.
If the hull has been painted with a polyurethane paint, you will not be able
to affect the paint with solvent. There is no solvent that will soften
polyurethane without dissolving the polyester resin underneath it. In the
old days when we less concerned about toxic chemicals and the environment,
paint strippers were based on methylene chloride, which is very potent stuff
but even this has a very limited effect on urethane coatings.
If it has been painted with an acrylic or an alkyd (enamel) or any other one
pack paint, then it should be able to be softened.
Alan Gluyas
May 8, 2012, 10:07:11 PM5/8/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Hi Charlie
Being a Kiwi before becoming an Ozzie, I have a soft spot for the Kiwigrip and I have used it on Brite Star. It works well but it is susceptible to staining, being essentially thickened house paint. There is an alternative solution, which is to add colloidal silica (fumed silica or cabosil) to a two pack epoxy of your colour choice and then apply this with a “gloop gloop” roller, as you would with Kiwigrip. The cabosil will even thicken water, so you add enough to the paint before adding the hardener part (it does not add any volume, just viscosity) until it is the right thickness. The epoxy non skid will sand off like any epoxy coating and it sticks like, well, epoxy!
Cheers
Al
Brite Star
CR 38 #82
Kettering Tasmania
David Cameron
May 8, 2012, 10:08:33 PM5/8/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
So off to a lot of sanding fairing and filling,best to be safe,
Thaanks for the tip
Regard Dave 52
Mickey Panayiotakis
May 8, 2012, 11:55:35 PM5/8/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
If you need long-board sanders and 36- or 40-grit paper, I got tons.
Y
David Cameron
May 9, 2012, 7:40:45 AM5/9/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Mick,I,am now trying to figure out what I,have on my top sides.I,know the cockpit has had the teak removed and repainted ,Do not what with.The non skid areas are not molded have a grit applied as with the deck another question mark.I,am not recoring the decks took your advice drilled holes around fron under,used a 1/2 inch hole saw core came out dry except 2 places fordeck and around aft hatch have opened flushing with acetone.Jurt still out on repair.
Thanks for the offer.Dave
Mickey Panayiotakis
May 9, 2012, 9:45:17 AM5/9/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
My original cabin tops did not have the traditional "checker pattern" molded-in nonskid either, but they were fiberglass. I notice on your hatches there's a gray line around the base:
Any idea what that is? If it's some type of primer, it'd be pretty clear that the decks were painted. But I don't see why they would be.
mickey
Charlie Purdum
May 9, 2012, 9:48:34 AM5/9/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Al-
Thanks for the insight. My local marina is testing kiwigrip on one of their launches to assess high wear performance, I'll update the group with results!
Charlie
From my iPhone
David Cameron
May 9, 2012, 1:57:30 PM5/9/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
That Grey line is gasket some kind of strip with self adhesive.Gone Now more pictures coming tonoght
David Cameron
May 9, 2012, 8:02:56 PM5/9/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
When adding cabosil,you are referring to an ALLgrip type paint?
Dave 52
Alan Gluyas
May 10, 2012, 12:31:45 AM5/10/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Hi Dave
AWLGRIP is a tradename for a polyurethane finish paint. It is a very thin coating and it is not really suitable for thickening with cabosil. If you thicken an EPOXY paint, you can use it as nonskid and topcopat it with polyurethane if you want to for better gloss or stain resistance. Polyurethane is fine for non-skid if you sprinkle sand on it but if you do this you can’t get the non-skid off again later. You can’t sand off the sand and you can’t strip the polyurethane – it is too chemical resistant for strippers as previously mentioned.
AWLGRIP won’t normally sell their product for owner use. International Paints sell very similar products under their brand name to anyone.
Cheers
Al
Brite Star
CR 38 #82
Kettering Tasmania
David Cameron
May 10, 2012, 7:39:24 AM5/10/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Alaan on to International.Dave 52
pat...@dayshaw.net
May 12, 2012, 2:05:12 AM5/12/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
Given Alan's outstanding expertise in all things marine related I
hesitate to jump in here but I will. We used Awlgrip, mixed with
cabosil to create a non-skid that not only meets our needs but garners
accolades on a regular basis everywhere we go. No invention of mine
but clearly documented on the West System Web site here:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/creating-a-non-skid-deck/
We sanded off the factory gel coat stuff that was too thin, very worn,
and not applied in way too many areas, and applied the Awlgrip version
pretty much as documented in the West System article. I also would
have thought Awlgrip too thin but alas it works great. One of the real
beauties of this process is that the non-skid is essentially paint all
the way through because the cabosil is so fine, and it's tough as
well. For example, around the fuel and water fills it was a bit too
rough and we scrapped out knuckles a few times. No problem. Take a
sanding block with 150 grit paper and sand it down a bit. One can't
see any difference in color, only texture as the cabosil is so fine
the mixture is essentially all paint.
We love or new non-skid and found thst with a bit of practice
beforehand on some wood scraps that the texture was easy to control.
Now nearly two years down the ocean path it has proven to be long
wearing, stain resistant, and most importantly has kept the skipper
and crew on the boat which is after all the first priority.
I considered the Kiwi Grip approach but the idea of putting what, as
others have described as "house paint", on the decks of a boat headed
for the tropics, just didn't set right with me. The Awlgrip/cabosil
process has proven itself with no problems whatsoever.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette, CR38, #43
Quoting Alan Gluyas <alang...@iinet.net.au>:
> Hi Dave
>
>
>
> AWLGRIP is a tradename for a polyurethane finish paint. It is a very thin
> coating and it is not really suitable for thickening with cabosil. If you
> thicken an EPOXY paint, you can use it as nonskid and topcopat it with
> polyurethane if you want to for better gloss or stain resistance.
> Polyurethane is fine for non-skid if you sprinkle sand on it but if you do
> this you can't get the non-skid off again later. You can't sand off the sand
> and you can't strip the polyurethane - it is too chemical resistant for
> To post to this group, send email to <mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:caborico+u...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:caborico+u...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:caborico+u...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:caborico+u...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:caborico+u...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:caborico+u...@googlegroups.com>
hesitate to jump in here but I will. We used Awlgrip, mixed with
cabosil to create a non-skid that not only meets our needs but garners
accolades on a regular basis everywhere we go. No invention of mine
but clearly documented on the West System Web site here:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/creating-a-non-skid-deck/
We sanded off the factory gel coat stuff that was too thin, very worn,
and not applied in way too many areas, and applied the Awlgrip version
pretty much as documented in the West System article. I also would
have thought Awlgrip too thin but alas it works great. One of the real
beauties of this process is that the non-skid is essentially paint all
the way through because the cabosil is so fine, and it's tough as
well. For example, around the fuel and water fills it was a bit too
rough and we scrapped out knuckles a few times. No problem. Take a
sanding block with 150 grit paper and sand it down a bit. One can't
see any difference in color, only texture as the cabosil is so fine
the mixture is essentially all paint.
We love or new non-skid and found thst with a bit of practice
beforehand on some wood scraps that the texture was easy to control.
Now nearly two years down the ocean path it has proven to be long
wearing, stain resistant, and most importantly has kept the skipper
and crew on the boat which is after all the first priority.
I considered the Kiwi Grip approach but the idea of putting what, as
others have described as "house paint", on the decks of a boat headed
for the tropics, just didn't set right with me. The Awlgrip/cabosil
process has proven itself with no problems whatsoever.
Patrick
S/V Silhouette, CR38, #43
Quoting Alan Gluyas <alang...@iinet.net.au>:
> Hi Dave
>
>
>
> AWLGRIP is a tradename for a polyurethane finish paint. It is a very thin
> coating and it is not really suitable for thickening with cabosil. If you
> thicken an EPOXY paint, you can use it as nonskid and topcopat it with
> polyurethane if you want to for better gloss or stain resistance.
> Polyurethane is fine for non-skid if you sprinkle sand on it but if you do
> this you can't get the non-skid off again later. You can't sand off the sand
> strippers as previously mentioned.
>
>
>
> AWLGRIP won't normally sell their product for owner use. International
> Paints sell very similar products under their brand name to anyone.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Al
>
>
>
> Brite Star
>
> CR 38 #82
>
> Kettering Tasmania
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
> AWLGRIP won't normally sell their product for owner use. International
> Paints sell very similar products under their brand name to anyone.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Al
>
>
>
> Brite Star
>
> CR 38 #82
>
> Kettering Tasmania
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: <mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> <mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Charlie Purdum
> Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2012 9:47 AM
> To: <mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: <mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [caborico] Paint topsides
>
>
>
> Ours as well, looks like rolled on non-skid vs. molded. Previous owner had a
> low-skill marina try to color-match beige nonskid to touch up gouges. We're
> now looking at applying awlgrip to all topsides (but don't like the awlgrip
> sand texture nonskid), kiwigrip nonskid and even
>
> Nuteak decks.
>
>
>
>
>
> Charlie
>
> Arriba
>
> Cr034-33
>
> From my iPhone
>
> 814.441.8394
>
>
> On May 8, 2012, at 21:34, David Cameron < <mailto:tc...@aol.com>
> <mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Charlie Purdum
> Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2012 9:47 AM
> To: <mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: <mailto:cabo...@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [caborico] Paint topsides
>
>
>
> Ours as well, looks like rolled on non-skid vs. molded. Previous owner had a
> low-skill marina try to color-match beige nonskid to touch up gouges. We're
> now looking at applying awlgrip to all topsides (but don't like the awlgrip
> sand texture nonskid), kiwigrip nonskid and even
>
> Nuteak decks.
>
>
>
>
>
> Charlie
>
> Arriba
>
> Cr034-33
>
> From my iPhone
>
> 814.441.8394
>
>
> <mailto:caborico+u...@googlegroups.com>
> caborico+u...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> <http://groups.google.com/group/caborico?hl=en>
> http://groups.google.com/group/caborico?hl=en.
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Mickey Panayiotakis
May 12, 2012, 1:27:58 PM5/12/12
to cabo...@googlegroups.com
I also used awlgrip with non-skid. My issue after 5 years is that the "peaks" of the paint are starting to wear down and I get tiny black dots. Perhaps another application of paint is due; or perhaps I did not lay down enough paint in the beginning. Applying nonskid-awlgrip is a fairly simple process. Much less demanding than doing the "shiny" areas. But keep in mind that painting nonskid surfaces takes a lot more paint…which makes sense if you think about it since there surface area is increased, but I didn't think about it :)
Y
From: <mailto:caborico@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
<mailto:caborico@googlegroups.com> cabo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Purdum
Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2012 9:47 AM
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Alan Gluyas
May 12, 2012, 9:13:33 PM5/12/12
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Hi Patrick
That is great to hear - I consider my education to be furthered!
Did you lose much gloss in the awlgrip by adding the Cabosil? In my
experience, this thickening trick has been done with epoxy, which has no
gloss anyway, and is inclined to be porous, so the addition of thin coat of
urethane/awlgrip has serves well to add gloss and a surface sealant.
As you note, the Cabosil still makes it an "all paint" system, so it can be
sande off later (although sanding Awlgrip is a mamoth task - that stuff sure
is hard!)
Thanks for the feedback - never hesitate!
Remember Montrose's toast:
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"
James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War
Cheers
Al
That is great to hear - I consider my education to be furthered!
Did you lose much gloss in the awlgrip by adding the Cabosil? In my
experience, this thickening trick has been done with epoxy, which has no
gloss anyway, and is inclined to be porous, so the addition of thin coat of
urethane/awlgrip has serves well to add gloss and a surface sealant.
As you note, the Cabosil still makes it an "all paint" system, so it can be
sande off later (although sanding Awlgrip is a mamoth task - that stuff sure
is hard!)
Thanks for the feedback - never hesitate!
Remember Montrose's toast:
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"
James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War
Cheers
Al
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