I'm enraged.
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
paid with IOUs by the biggest, most wealthy state in the entire union...
goddamn 10 years of Reagan axe cutting drove him out of his job with the Feds,
does that damn punk Wilson want to do the same? He's worked all his lifek,
sweated in Vietnam, worked his way through school, gotten a Masters, and for
what? To be paid shit wages by a bankrupt state in IOUs that he won't be
able to cash because even the banks don't trust it.
I read in the other day that there's a bill in the fuckin' Legislature that
would totally redefine the balance of power between the branches of government
remove the power from the state courts to order tax monies to be expended to
fulfill a mandate. Every judicial officer opposes it. Why is it out there?
State legislators on both sides of the aisle privately admit it is in
retaliation for the supreme court ruling Prop. 140 Constitutional.
WHAT THE FUCK? I didn't elect these people to fuck the state up, to engage
in petty disputes with wide ranging ramifications and strike out at one
branch from another...the legislature fucking the supreme court, the governor
fucking the legislature. What the hell is this?
I'm so angry, I can't think straight. I watch the T.V., read the paper, and
get constantly more and more pissed. My brother and his friends have been
looking for work for three fucking years... the only job they could get was
working under the table for this shithead landscape contractor who wouldn't
pay them on time. The didn't get shit from him.
And what does the fuckin' Democratic party, the party of the fucking working
man and woman nominate? A slick, ambitious yuppie white guy, NO, TWO of them,
who targets his campaign a rich upper upper middle class clueless white
people, and is afraid to say anything about what's really gone wrong with
this country, is like one of those sappy Christians preaching reconciliation
before anyone else even opens their mouth... I was sitting in my school,
listening to a major policy adviser twist and turn and evade and not give
one straight answer, worshipped by his soon to be yuppie white "liberal"
public policy majors, a well regarded man who had the gall to say, "oh,
but we can't come right out and say, "America is a racist society"... what
would that accomplish."
Goddamn it, what the fuck? Even the goddamn advisers can't give a straight
answer... ain't nothin' gonna change with this man, nothing of substance.
So what if they're well meaning, o.k., maybe some things will get better,
but nothing fundamental is going to change... these people represent the
betrayal of all the ideals all the people the Democratic party is built on,
America is built on. They are cowards, incapable of presenting the truth
straight up, incapable of leading America, incapable of building this
country into something better. They represent the concession to what is
weak in America, our worst tendencies. The Democratic Leadership Council
is anything but. Jerry Brown was right to refuse to endorse them, right
to refuse to concede the mantle of legitimacy to them. Once we concede
that they're right, we betray everything... we let the "moderate right"
take over and nothing will ever change.
I'm so angry, I can't think... I'm registered Green, and all I'm getting
is a load of shit, from what I hear... what the hell? Who in the hell
would dare register as a Green that has something against long haired
people. I haven't been contacted once by a grassroots party, I've been
contacted more times by Democrats asking me to register to save the
environment, or register to vote for them and then change back than I have
been by my own party. The people I've talked to sound like they've bought
into the power structure... the people I see are white middle aged
leftovers from the '60s, being sent out to pluralistic campuses...
people have told me they're tired of dealing with this.
Enough is enough is enough.
Thomas Van Ness Leavitt
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
--American politics in one syllable.
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
>goddamn 10 years of Reagan axe cutting drove him out of his job with the Feds,
>does that damn punk Wilson want to do the same? He's worked all his lifek,
>sweated in Vietnam, worked his way through school, gotten a Masters, and for
>what? To be paid shit wages by a bankrupt state in IOUs that he won't be
>able to cash because even the banks don't trust it.
There's always the private sector.....
>I'm so angry, I can't think straight.
This is clear.
>I watch the T.V., read the paper, and
>get constantly more and more pissed. My brother and his friends have been
>looking for work for three fucking years... the only job they could get was
>working under the table for this shithead landscape contractor who wouldn't
>pay them on time. The didn't get shit from him.
So why not report him to the FEPC, EEOC, and the several other government
bodies who would like to tear his heart out and eat for employing people under
the table?
>And what does the fuckin' Democratic party, the party of the fucking working
>man and woman nominate? A slick, ambitious yuppie white guy, NO, TWO of
>them,
>who targets his campaign a rich upper upper middle class clueless white
>people, and is afraid to say anything about what's really gone wrong with
>this country...
Probably because that's a sure fire way to reach political obscurity. You can't
win an election in this country campaigning against clueless white middle
class people because the majority of the people in this country who vote *are*
middle class clueless white people or want to be middle class white people.
Cluelessness is optional. This is why the Democrats are conducting a very
black and diverse convention while nominating lily-white candidates.
>Enough is enough is enough.
That's nice....what are you going to do about it? And beyond that, have
you ever considered and thought out exactly what it is you expect from the
government? What is it that you want the government to do for you? And
who do you expect to pay for it?
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHH
>HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
>--American politics in one syllable.
I agree with this. But for different reasons...
JZ
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
>goddamn 10 years of Reagan axe cutting drove him out of his job with the Feds,
>does that damn punk Wilson want to do the same? He's worked all his lifek,
>sweated in Vietnam, worked his way through school, gotten a Masters, and for
>what? To be paid shit wages by a bankrupt state in IOUs that he won't be
>able to cash because even the banks don't trust it.
There's always the private sector.....
>I'm so angry, I can't think straight.
This is clear.
>I watch the T.V., read the paper, and
>get constantly more and more pissed. My brother and his friends have been
>looking for work for three fucking years... the only job they could get was
>working under the table for this shithead landscape contractor who wouldn't
>pay them on time. The didn't get shit from him.
So why not report him to the FEPC, EEOC, and the several other government
bodies who would like to tear his heart out and eat for employing people under
the table?
>And what does the fuckin' Democratic party, the party of the fucking working
>man and woman nominate? A slick, ambitious yuppie white guy, NO, TWO of
>them,
>who targets his campaign a rich upper upper middle class clueless white
>people, and is afraid to say anything about what's really gone wrong with
>this country...
Probably because that's a sure fire way to reach political obscurity. You can't
win an election in this country campaigning against clueless white middle
class people because the majority of the people in this country who vote *are*
middle class clueless white people or want to be middle class white people.
Whether they want the cluelessness is up for debate. This is why the Democrats
are conducting a very black and diverse convention while nominating lily-white
candidates.
>Enough is enough is enough.
That's nice....what are you going to do about it? And beyond that, have
you ever considered and thought out exactly what it is you expect from the
government? What is it that you want the government to do for you? And
who do you expect to pay for it?
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHH
>HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
>--American politics in one syllable.
I agree with this. But for different reasons...
JZ
Don Steiny
>Goddamn it, what the hell do these punks think they're doing? My dad is being
>paid with IOUs by the biggest, most wealthy state in the entire union...
>goddamn 10 years of Reagan axe cutting drove him out of his job with the Feds,
>does that damn punk Wilson want to do the same? He's worked all his lifek,
>sweated in Vietnam, worked his way through school, gotten a Masters, and for
>what? To be paid shit wages by a bankrupt state in IOUs that he won't be
>able to cash because even the banks don't trust it.
What does your dad contribute? I think that part of the problem
with the government is that there are too many people working for it. I am
sorry about your dad in the specific, but in the abstract it does not
bother me to find there are fewer people working for the government.
>I read in the other day that there's a bill in the fuckin' Legislature that
>would totally redefine the balance of power between the branches of government
>remove the power from the state courts to order tax monies to be expended to
>fulfill a mandate. Every judicial officer opposes it. Why is it out there?
>State legislators on both sides of the aisle privately admit it is in
>retaliation for the supreme court ruling Prop. 140 Constitutional.
>WHAT THE FUCK? I didn't elect these people to fuck the state up, to engage
>in petty disputes with wide ranging ramifications and strike out at one
>branch from another...the legislature fucking the supreme court, the governor
>fucking the legislature. What the hell is this?
"In a democracy, people get the kind of government they deserve."
Adali Stevenson (Sr.)
I didn't vote for them.
>I'm so angry, I can't think straight.
I noticed.
> I watch the T.V., read the paper, and get constantly more and more pissed.
That is what they do for a living, try to get you excited. They
are professionals and they are doing a good job.
My brother and his friends have been
>looking for work for three fucking years... the only job they could get was
>working under the table for this shithead landscape contractor who wouldn't
>pay them on time. The didn't get shit from him.
That's just terrible! I have had people not pay me and it pisses
me off. However, there seems to be a reasonable amount of computer
programming jobs in some areas, like operating systems, device drivers,
object oriented programming, X-Windows, and some other areas. Certainly
the times are not the best.
Anything realated to the construction industry is very local. In
California, many areas are built out. In Santa Cruz there are zillions of
unemployed contractors. Perhaps there less in Roseville. When I go
to Roseville I see construction everywhere. Tracy also seems to have lots
of construction. Maybe your brother is in the wrong place.
I have two programmer friends that are Ada experts. They had to
locate to Ada land, Washington DC.
>And what does the fuckin' Democratic party, the party of the fucking working
>man and woman nominate? A slick, ambitious yuppie white guy, NO, TWO of them,
>who targets his campaign a rich upper upper middle class clueless white
>people, and is afraid to say anything about what's really gone wrong with
>this country,
What, pray tell, has gone wrong with this country? My theory
is that people watch too much television and believe what they hear, get
enraged and angry for no reason and then elect morons who cause problem.
You take it all to seriously.
-don
--
Don Steiny
Don Steiny Software
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
(408) 425-0382
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
yeah one with no health benefits, get real.
Wanna know something, putz? I've volunteered for a dozen campaigns,
spoken before my city council, fed the homeless, gone to protests, etc.
I know exactly what I want from the government... I'm perfectly willing to
the government to contract out services, I've got no investment in bureau-
cracy, but these putzs in the legislature take the cake.
I want access to higher education guaranteed, regardless of financial ability
to pay. Loans, grants, etc. The extra $5,000 a year paid in taxes by the
average graduate, for 40 years or more, makes this a sensible investment.
Have you thought out what you want government to do? How about save us all
money...
When people don't get prenatal care, don't get regular health care, cause
they can't afford it, and it's not provided by the employer, they wind up
in PUBLIC hospitals, costing us PUBLIC dollars.
Now, unless you are a complete idiot and don't realize that the vast
majority of American citizens are horrified by the notion of directly
letting people die, when they could be saved with medical effort (let us
take the case of the public outcry that cost Medi-Cal $200,000+ so that
a baby could get out of state treament in Oregon), you will realize that
paying now for prenatal care and preventative care and counseling and
therapy is much cheaper than $2,000 a day or more hospital costs, not to
mention the fact that an individual is turned into a productive member
of society, not to mention the gain in human dignity and avoidance of pain
and suffering.
I don't care if this is done by a private company, supervised, or by
public servants... as long as its done. I would bet you wouldn't want it
done.
I want effective, non-racist, non-clueless public education...
Let me explain something... I went to a 95% Latino elementary school...
we had a gate class there... it was pretty diverse... interestingly enough,
in one of the most "progressive school districts", my Latino friends and
I wound up disappearing from each others sight.
My high school Honor Civics course had two Latinos, no African Americans,
and a few Asians. In a 30 to 40% Latino/African-American school... I don't
recall ever, ever seeing more than one African-American in my honor
classes or tracked classes.
At most. I was forced by the methodology of the system to endure a couple
of normal level classes... no wonder the system is so fucked up. In 7th
or 8th grade, I knew more about American history, simply from reading the
book (which of course was utterly biased and patriotic and oblivious to the
experiences of most of the people in the class).
I remember sitting in that class for a full year, feeling the radiating
hostility of some of those kids towards everything... correcting the
teacher.
This is a fucked up society, and you are fucking it up more by denying it.
Thom
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
that decide how much of a disability they have, and thus how much they are
entitled to in disability and pension funds...
He spent nearly 20 years on the other side of the fence, deciding how much
people deserved, as one of his responsibility.
I watch little T.V., because it pisses me off... Beverly Fucking Hills
90210. My brother laughs at it... "where are all the cocaine sniffing
alcoholic junkies?" The people producing shit shows like that are completely
out of touch with reality...
I take things too seriously? yeah, I'm sure all the people who get stomped
on by the system take things too seriously. Hey, if I seem upset, you aint
seen nothing yet till you've talked with the people i have... go watch
pump it up on channel 13 at 1 a.m., or walk onto a high school or college
campus and talk with some of the people of color...
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get somewhere, I've got smarts and ability and
my skin is white, which gives me a built in advantage, but if it wasn't,
I know for damn sure things would be a helluva lot harder.
Anyone of you punks see that 20/20 episode with the white yuppie and the
black yuppie? Hmm... betcha most of you found it enlightening... ha, the
true face of America revealed... aversive racism is damn real. A man
walks onto the new car lot, pokes around for 10 minutes or more, and no
one contacts him... his skin is black. A man walks onto the lot, and
20 seconds later there is a synchophantic car dealer saying "what do i have
to do to get your business" his skin is white...
Fucked up society.
Thom
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
writes:
>Yo, die you stupid shithead. My dad can get a job in the private sector,
>yeah one with no health benefits, get real.
Since I was the one who suggested the private sector option, I think I'm probably
the stupid shithead who has been invited to die...
Why is it that you assume that if your dad gets out of the government employment
that you seem to find so very unsatisfactory that he will necessarily be denied
health coverage? Many of us on this group work in the private sector, and I
expect that most of us have health coverage...if your dad has anything useful to
contribute to society (and I expect he probably does, unlike you) he shouldn't
have too much trouble finding employment.
>Wanna know something, putz? I've volunteered for a dozen campaigns,
>spoken before my city council, fed the homeless, gone to protests, etc.
Oh help, now I've been called a putz by a self-righteous student. Oh someone
find me a cliff to fling my worthless body from! I'm impressed by your resume;
clearly you *care* more than anyone else. I probably attended my first protest
when you were in diapers. There are others on this forum who attended theirs
when *I* was in diapers. Your list of good-deeds and 50 cents will get you
a cup of coffee at Denny's.
>I know exactly what I want from the government... I'm perfectly willing to
>the government to contract out services, I've got no investment in bureau-
>cracy, but these putzs in the legislature take the cake.
>I want access to higher education guaranteed, regardless of financial ability
>to pay. Loans, grants, etc. The extra $5,000 a year paid in taxes by the
>average graduate, for 40 years or more, makes this a sensible investment.
If you had a brain in your head you'd see that you're talking in circles.
First you loudly decry all opportunities not relating to government employment,
decry the government for not providing enough, then expect the government
to magically fund free college for everyone on the expectation that they'll
make loads of money later from somewhere....I repeat my question, who
do you expect to pay for it? And do you have the votes to force them to?
>Have you thought out what you want government to do? How about save us all
>money...
I've thought quite a bit about what I want government to do. For starters, I'd like
it to send you back to grade school until you learn to express yourself like a
reasonable adult.
>When people don't get prenatal care, don't get regular health care, cause
>they can't afford it, and it's not provided by the employer, they wind up
>in PUBLIC hospitals, costing us PUBLIC dollars.Now, unless you are a
>complete idiot and don't realize...
Certainly, I can see the relationship between bad health care and ultimately
ending up as a burden on society....you're not addressing the 6th grade
assembly here, we've been discussing these things for a while.
The point is that your rant is full of sound and fury, signifying
nothing. You're just screeching some vaguely coherent slogans about
how everything and everyone is so clueless and fucked up, but you're
offering exactly zero in the way of meaningful analysis, understanding of the
issues, or constructive ideas for solutions other than "Free Everything for
Everybody." In short, your heart's in the right place, but your head is firmly
stuck up your fundamental aperture.
>I don't care if this is done by a private company, supervised, or by
>public servants... as long as its done. I would bet you wouldn't want it
>done.
Oh yes, I'm a Scrooge, I love the thought of little starving babies (as long as they're
black or brown or yellow) dying in the streets with their wailing mothers. Get
real, boy. I realize that you don't care how it gets done as long as it gets done.
That's the wail of the spoiled child given a political soap-box to stand on. You still
haven't told us who you expect to pay for it....once again, all heart and no brain.
>I want effective, non-racist, non-clueless public education...
Don't we all? But again and again and again, who do you expect to do this
for you? You can stand there and whine about how clueless and fucked up
it all is and it doesn't help a single solitary soul. It may help you to feel
superior to the rest of us, since you clearly *care* so very much more about these
pressing issues, but it doesn't do DICK for the people you so very loudly
care about.
>Let me explain something... I went to a 95% Latino elementary school...
World of wonders, you went to a racist school! Line forms to the left, folks,
look at this amazing spectacle! Someone who went to a racist school! My school
was about 1/3 african-american. They were all bussed in from the ghetto, since
there were only 2 or 3 Af-Am kids in our district. (one was the son of a Judge, and
the others were kids of similarly placed Af-Ams.) Once at our "integrated" school
they were tracked into lower classes, they stayed in one section of the schoolyard,
etc etc etc. I'm not in favor of this system, but you are not the only one ever
to witness it. Give us a proposal of how to fix it in concrete terms!
>This is a fucked up society, and you are fucking it up more by denying it.
Who's denying it? All I'm asking from you is some substance. You might
want to consider following the debate in this forum for a little while before
leaping in to teach us all compassion and right thinking. Save your snotty
little diatribes for the other kids back at the high school. They might be impressed
with what an activist you are and how much you *care*, but it won't play in
this room, Dangerfield.
You sound like every little college freshman who's got a big bad hard-on to save
the world and a list of demands as long as his arm and absolutely no depth at
all to your education or your thought process. You want free medical care as a
human right and a good government job for your dad and free education and
enough food for everybody and a good job for your brother and his buddies and
presumably a good job for yourself, too. My question still stands, how are you
going to pay for all that? If you can give me a good solid answer, I'll march
with you until we get it. But the entire political debate in this country revolves
around what to do first and how to pay for it, and no one yet has figured it out.
To quote a poet I'm sure you'll give lip service to:
"You say you'll change the Constitution, well you know, we'd all love to
see the plan."
That's John Lennon, in case you didn't get it.
And one other thing.....clean up your prose. You come off sounding like a
half-literate, foul-mouthed, whining brat. If you want a flame war, I'll
peel your face off......but I'd rather see you educate yourself and contribute
something besides trash to this forum.
JZ
Michael P. Anderson
I feel your pain, I hear your anguish. I am a registered Green
like you, and I will be voting for the Clinton/Gore ticket.
Put it into perspective. The Democrats have compromised their
platform, just as you suggest, to the point where they're hardly
recognizable. But who is going to give your green principles more of an
airing, Bush or Clinton? You know the answer.
Reagan and Bush are responsible for what has happend to this
country. They have engineered the transfer of wealth to the top,
committed felonies, killed hundreds of thousands--if not millions--of
people in cold blood.
Please Thomas. Vote the Clinton/Gore ticket. I acknowledge that
is a piss-poor start, but what will a non-vote, or a vote for Bush,
accomplish? Nazi Germany American-style in my opinion.
We must act now to get our country back. If Bush is elected there
is going to be revolution. Of that I am certain. If you think that
revolution is the right course, consider what is happening in the rest
of the world. Is going hungry, watching members of your family die,
witnessing extremes of poverty and degredation worth the strict
adherence to principle?
I submit that principle is not lost if we vote for the Democrats.
Yes, it's hypocrisy. Yes, it's caving in. But it's also concensus
building. It's compromise. I think I am probably 10 years older than
you are, and I once felt as you do. But now I have a family. My two
boys are growing up, and of course I want to leave them a world that
is habitable.
I submit the choice is clear. Clinton/Gore will give us a better
country and world than Bush. Those that claim otherwise are demagogues.
The demagogues climbed out from under rocks twelve years ago. It's time
for them to seek cover once again. If you don't vote, or if you vote
for Bush, you are going to be faced with the harsh reality of having
to live under their repressive, authoratarian regime, or kill them.
You choose Thomas.
MPA
Wayne A. Christopher
> I am a registered Green like you, and I will be voting for the
> Clinton/Gore ticket. Vote the Clinton/Gore ticket. I acknowledge that
> is a piss-poor start, but what will a non-vote, or a vote for Bush,
> accomplish?
I am a Green also, and I decided to vote for Clinton over Perot some
time ago, because for all his promises, Perot gave little sign of
being pro-environment. ("We all want to fix the environment, but
first we have to fix the economy.") Clinton's choice of Gore showed
that he really does understand the threat to the planet, and that he
puts it high on his list of priorities. I wish he had said more about
it in his acceptance speech, though. (I just listened to it, and it
was nice but there were no surprises.)
Wayne
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
The job my dad has been offered has no health care benefits.
I'm not gonna change my style for anything... deal with it, or shut up, or
continue criticizing me as you please. Personally, I regard you as an
obnoxious twit.
Thom
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
mother has been watching him since before he was governor, and is highly
impressed with his efforts.
However, the most immediate threat, the one perpetrated by those yahoos in
the Legislature, a product of their petty gamesmanship, the bill changing
the balance of power between the branches of government, is an inexcusable
joke... how dare those people threaten the stability of our entire govern
mental system out of petty resentment at justices following that they felt
was the law, and what could reasonably be contended to be the will of the
citizens of this state?
Not to mention the current budget crises carrying on and on and on and on...
I've watched my dad's (and probably most lower level civil servants) real
disposable income drop every year since I was born... my dad last bought a
new car in 1970. He drives a beat to shit 1978 Ford Pinto, a major luxury
was the purchase of a $150 VCR after the cat pissed on the decade old one.
I goddamn resent falling straight out of the middle class economically...
Thom
Michael Zimmers
>[an interminable diatribe that was about as clever as it was classy...]
Word up, homeboy. I don't know from under what rock you emerged spewing
your septic vitriol, but this newsgroup is not a forum for the criminally
profane. Clean up your act or get lost.
And consider this a friendly warning -- the next one goes to your postmaster.
--
Michael Zimmers | Home: 408 996 1984
SoftHelp | Work: 408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems | Data: 408 996 1974
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
at my school.
If you think this is insane, you've been asleep for the past dozen years...
there are a lot of people tired of being shat upon by oh so condescending
yutzs who don't have even the vaguest idea of what is going on. I'm not
into burning things for amusement, and I don't predict an onslaught of
arson sprees, but there are a lot of people who're far angrier than I am.
And furthermore, enough of them are making it out far enough to see where
they came from and why and what and how, that someone is going to have to pay
up. I doubt people will take this crap much longer.
It'll be a lot different, I bet, and less amusing, when you pop off some
stupid remark, and your boss dresses you down like you were in 1st Grade.
Thom
The Chipmunk
--
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors and miss.
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
>I don't care what the hell you have to say.
Ooh, I bet you're the absolute terror of the schoolyard.
>The job my dad has been offered has no health care benefits.
Then clearly he should not take it if he needs those benefits. But
I don't believe that anyone has a "right" to a cushy job in the
government. Grow up.
>I'm not gonna change my style for anything... deal with it,
>or shut up, or
>continue criticizing me as you please.
I'll probably do some combination of the three. I think killfiles
are for the weak and timid, but you're almost enough to change
my mind on that...
>Personally, I regard you as an obnoxious twit.
Why, because I challenge you to back up your adolescent
complaining with substance? Oh, I'm such a bad old meany!
Here's a pat of butter and a napkin, come back when you
feel better....meanwhile, we have important things to discuss
here, and you'll only become frightfully confused.
JZ
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
painful for you. It's much less painful than dealing with it face to face..
Thom
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
anything yet. I know plenty of people who are *really* upset.
Thom
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
>Oh, I'm fine... certain people here seem to be upset, but they haven't seen
>anything yet. I know plenty of people who are *really* upset.
Why don't you tell us about them?
JZ
l...@florida.swdc.stratus.com
Hmmmmmm .... I was going to send him articles personally on
the NWO....which IMHO explains why his dad is going thru this
and why he is enraged.....but considering that this is th
election year......I'm going to post them all here under the
title... I'm enraged: <Subject>.
Perhaps a little truth telling in Bush bashing is in order!
Len
l...@florida.swdc.stratus.com
Personally.....I dont think you'll have much luck. I was
already told by another moderator that actually proving the
author of any given article is fairly impossible. But
anyways, I dont see what he wrote as being profane.....perhaps
this issue is yours?
Len
DISCLAIMER: My opinions are my own and do not reflect those
held by my employer. And my postmaster doesnt give a rat's
hoot about this net! :^)
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
Anglo who was abused by a really airheaded mother as a child, whose father
is dying of AIDS in New York, divorced from his mother, who married a
Polish cabdriver whom this kid never got along with, who was dropping
acid at age 12, when he sat in my living room and told my brother he
didn't expect to live to be 18... who has been in and out and in andout
of the juvenile justice and drug rehabilitation systems, who has been
homeless and living in garages and crashing in friends houses for months
at a time, who was dragged out of our bathroom by the police, totally
drunk and lying in his own vomit a couple of years ago.
Did I mention the kid has an I.Q. of 150, and could be a highly productivew
member of society if the support structures were there?
Not to mention the dozens of kids with and without high school diplomas
unable to find steady work? Or the way in which kids with "invisible"
handicaps, behavioral or emotional (such as the above) get tracked
together when they're diagnosed and put in "remedial" courses (especially
frustrating when you're highly capable...) and wind up creating a sub-
culture of their own which often reinforces negative perceptions of the
larger society and the school system.
Put a dozen brilliant kids, with multiple invisible handicaps in one room,
give them make-work and remedial level coursework, try your best to handle
the multiple disruptions caused by the behavioral disturbances combined
with problems at home and possible drug abuse, have little or no guidance
in how to deal with them, and what do you produce?
How about the people who meet my brother at a party, and a couple of days
later, call him up at 4 a.m. talking about committing suicide? Or the
ones that he's known for years who do the same thing, from out of state?
How about coming accross just a small sample of the utterly alienated,
and knowing that there are hundreds of kids like this making their living
selling T-shirts and acid at Venice beach, and living in communal apartments?
Of course, these are just my brother's friends, in another post, I'll talk
about my Latino buddy who stood in the Quad (central hang out area) and
shouted about how he hated whitepeople and what have they ever done for him,
producing massive hysteria from whitepeople on campus, and somehow over
shadowing the positive peaceful statements of the other 90 participants...
who is cool, who told me that he realized it was not cool, and not productive,
but wasn't going to apologize, I told him, "Cool, you told them how you
feel, I support you 100%, I know what you really meant." More detail later.
Thom
Enough? Polite enough? Don't see any foul language there...
however, just to stay honest: F*ck you, GHWB and DQ and all you other
bastards who've made it damn well near impossible for many people to live
with dignity.
:)
Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide
>Hmm... I could mention the now 16 year old manic depressive Panamanian...
>Did I mention the kid has an I.Q. of 150, and could be a highly productivew
>member of society if the support structures were there?
That is clearly a great waste of this kid's potential. I agree 100%.
>Not to mention the dozens of kids with and without high school diplomas
>unable to find steady work? Or the way in which kids with "invisible"
>handicaps, behavioral or emotional (such as the above) get tracked
>together when they're diagnosed and put in "remedial" courses (especially
>frustrating when you're highly capable...) and wind up creating a sub-
>culture of their own which often reinforces negative perceptions of the
>larger society and the school system.
Yeah, they did that when I was in school, too. It's a hard thing to watch when
school administrators who can barely function in their jobs get to track someone
and (more or less) put them in a groove that defines their future. A groove that
is difficult to get out of.
>Put a dozen brilliant kids, with multiple invisible handicaps in one room,
>give them make-work and remedial level coursework, try your best to handle
>the multiple disruptions caused by the behavioral disturbances combined
>with problems at home and possible drug abuse, have little or no guidance
>in how to deal with them, and what do you produce?
People like your friends who don't get what they should get (and need) out of the
educational system. I agree that something ought to be changed about the system,
but I'm not sure what changes can be made. People will still make tracking decisions,
unless we want to end up with some sort of school system that Pol Pot would enjoy,
i.e. everyone getting the exact same instruction all the time, with no regard for individual
talent and ability and interest. There's a balance that must be struck between giving
support to those who are clearly on the success track and giving remedial help to those
who need it, and most importantly, being able to tell the difference between a bored kid
with a personal problem and a kid who just can't hack the material at the speed with which
it's being presented.
I don't think you'll find anyone in this forum who doesn't want to see each person succeed
to the best of their potential. We differ on the best means to achieve that end, though.
>How about the people who meet my brother at a party, and a couple of days
>later, call him up at 4 a.m. talking about committing suicide? Or the
>ones that he's known for years who do the same thing, from out of state?
Are these people looking for attention or is your brother the kind of person who
people feel will understand their problems enough to overcome whatever emotional
barriers they may have against calling someone who is essentially a stranger at
4 a.m. and pouring out their woes? I agree that people committing suicide is a
great tragedy. In the time since I graduated from college (7 years), I've had 3 friends
kill themselves. The youngest was 23. Another friend was shot and killed by police
in San Diego during a suicide attempt of his own. (that's a long story that's sure to
fuel your rage beyond belief. It fueled my own rage for quite a while.) I agree that its
a big bad problem, but I'm not sure how to address it with the resources currently
available.
>How about coming accross just a small sample of the utterly alienated,
>and knowing that there are hundreds of kids like this making their living
>selling T-shirts and acid at Venice beach, and living in communal apartments?
How about it? It's not like it's a new problem. Dickens talked about them in Oliver
Twist. Jesus said "The poor we will always have with us". --I'm not denying that
it's a national disgrace and tragedy, Thom, quite the opposite. But I'm stumped if
I know how to give all these people what they need.
>Of course, these are just my brother's friends, in another post, I'll talk
>about my Latino buddy who stood in the Quad (central hang out area) and
>shouted about how he hated whitepeople and what have they ever done for him,
>producing massive hysteria from whitepeople on campus, and somehow over
>shadowing the positive peaceful statements of the other 90 participants...
>who is cool, who told me that he realized it was not cool, and not productive,
>but wasn't going to apologize, I told him, "Cool, you told them how you
>feel, I support you 100%, I know what you really meant." More detail later.
And he has every right to be upset. In the State of California, the INS makes sweeps
through neighborhoods and picks up anyone who is not identifiably Anglo and forces
them to produce positive proof that they are citizens or legal residents - if they can't
produce such, they get deported. This is not a practice that the home of the free and
brave ought to allow. It sounds like South Africa, not the USA. But there it is. I agree that
it doesn't solve much for your friend to vent like that, but it might make him feel
better, which is at least something, and it might make some of those listening understand
the situation better. My own understanding (consciousness?) was raised during a similar
group meeting at my college where the students of color and various minorities spoke about
their feelings about whites, the school, the USA, etc. I didn't agree that all points made were
100% true, nor did I agree with the list of demands that were made, but that's not the point
of the excercise. The point of the excercise is communication, and that clearly happened.
>Enough? Polite enough? Don't see any foul language there...
No, not enough. You should stay and post more and engage in communication, thinking,
defense, apology (in the greek sense), and figure out what your program is to fix these
problems.
It was polite enough. Thank you for that. There's no point in railing at the people in
this forum. It won't win any listeners or sympathizers for you. If you want to realize
political goals, railing against all and sundry is counterproductive.
>however, just to stay honest: F*ck you, GHWB and DQ and all you other
>bastards who've made it damn well near impossible for many people to live
>with dignity. :)
Honesty we can handle.
JZ
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
I appreciate constructive criticism.
One of the most successful programs addressing some of these concerns was
implemented by my mother and a group of her fellow PTA/administrator/activist
friends... it took nearly four years to get off the ground, but has won
national awards, and plaudits, and totally changed the make up of the
neglected, 95% Hispanic school I attended in the early eighties.
It is an Spanish immersion program. People are fighting to get into it.
The majority Latino students are being served in their own language, being
taught with materials and methods which respect their cultures diversity...
the other students are building cross-cultural relationships, learning
Spanish with little struggle at a level that will provide them with a 95%
of native speaker fluency, and gaining an academic asset through a program
that actually produces higher English/Spanish profieciency scores than
they would have otherwise. They are thinking about expanding the program
to another school. All this done with the devotion of just a small amount
of extra resources and attention... the result is a desegregated, and
internally integrated school.
The SAPID program at our high school is highly successful... taking teen-age
mothers and bringing them back into the school system, teaching them parenting
skills, allowing them to get actual diplomas, and progress further into the
educational system if they wish, giving them the resources to gain self-
esteem and confidence in their own ability to deal with the problems of being
a single parent in many cases. It also results in healthier, happier infants,
with the long term benefits that provides to society.
Our school is undergoing a total educational reconstruction program, they're
going to rebuild the entire systemic paradigm... one of the most immediate
results is that we have team teaching, and a better support system for
incoming teachers... we also have grouped together incoming students in
by some sort of method that assigns specific teachers to each group, and
gives individual students resources to turn to when in difficulty, and
allows teachers and administrators to keep better track of the progress of
each student.
Despite the probable huge cuts in the districts budget (this on top of
$1 million to $2 million dollars a year in budget cuts each year for the
past 10 years), these programs, fueled mainly by small grants in the
hundreds, much volunteer labor, and whatever private/public grants that can
be applied for, are going to continue.
Now, the school isn't the same as it was when I went through three years
ago... lots of things happened to the schools I attended two or three years
after I left, as my mother's and other's efforts to overcome entrenched
opposition and bureaucracy became successful, and as my mother came in
contact with different levels of the school system and found different
problems. I don't think she's come up with any tremendously successful
programs to address the problems of the kids outlined above... our
continuation school has had it's budget hacked... there are some outstanding
teachers there, but it is not for everyone...
Anyway, just an otline of some succesful programs... lots of whose elements
I approve of, and discussed with various people at various points.
Thom
Mike Marfell
>
> I goddamn resent falling straight out of the middle class economically...
>
> Thom
And falling right out of daddy's middle class MONEY!
Peace
-Mike
--
"Just a little knowledge can be dangerous" ....Burmashave
Mike Marfell m...@clipper.ingr.com
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
I got a $5, then $10/week allowance. skipped lunch to save the money to
buy books. I never got anything more than the basics... didn't want anything
more, I had my books.
It ain't the things a middle class income brings, it's the security...
knowing that the bills will be paid, that you won't have to worry about
how to fix the car, or whether or not that grinding sound in the transmission
which has been going on for about three years now really needs to be fixed,
that the electricity won't go out because the checks bounced, that the
water won't be cut off... little things like that.
Every damn thing I've bought since age 16 has come from my own earnings,
or from gifts from relatives. I don't ask my parents for anything but
a roof over my head and an occassional meal, when I come home from school,
if I don't have enough cash to rent a place of my own.
Thom
Caroline E. Bryan
>Ah, but I never saw much of that money... from the age of ten to sixteen,
>I got a $5, then $10/week allowance.
HOW MUCH???? Zowie, and I thought when my allowance went from $.10 to $.25
a week I was in the Big Time. Of course, my siblings and I started out (with
a nickel allowance) much younger than you did; we got our "raise" to $.10 when
the oldest was about 10 years old. I guess that's the difference between you
merely middle-class types and us upper-middle-class tycoons.
>... Every damn thing I've bought since age 16 has come from my own earnings,
>or from gifts from relatives.
Why'd you start so late? I had my SS# and a paying job at the age of 14 (and
yes, lost my allowance when I got it, too).
It's amazing that you can function on so little. (sarcaz-alert for the
clueless)
Carrie c...@rechenau.unify.com x6244
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| "Never" is about six months. -- Charlie Gibbs |
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Thomas VanNess Leavitt
and house myself for under $200 a month. What a lifestyle.
Thom